NeoCon Joe, the Failed Lebanese Campaign, and Losing by Winning

This is going to be a bit of a wandering post. But I’m going to cover the following and hopefully finish in enough time to go can peaches:

  • Taking Joe at his word
  • Hersh’s portrayal of failure
  • On how the Neocons may become winners out of losing
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  1. KdmFromPhila says:

    I’m glad that someone (you and Seymor Hersh) are addressing the Neo-cons desire to get a firmer grip on the oil in the Middle East. It’d be nice if the MSM would take a look at that topic too, but I won’t hold my breath.

    I think, though, that there is soemthign that no one is looking at, at least not adequately, to my knowledge. You write:

    â€But if (Joe) and his friends remain in power, they will hasten the worst outcomes possible for the US.â€

    What is ideally a better outcome? and realistically? The problem under the current circumstances is that even more enlightened leadership would operate with the same hegemonic-consumerist model that will enventually cause serious ecological damage or some kind of confrontation with China.(That is, assuming the Middle East doesn’t blow up first.) This is why I have a hard time with the criticism of Bush’s incompetence. It’s certainly accurate, but it fails to address the dangerous assumptions that underlie his political philosophy and does not make a case for a different direction in our strategic and economic orientation. That brings me to my next point…

    You don’t mention alternatives to the consumer bliss-neocolonial model, and I’m wondering what one (both ideally and realistically) would look like.

    Personally, i wouldn’t mind seeing the US cooperate with the EU or Asian countries on developing alternatives to carbon-based eletrical and transportation systems. I know it’s a pipe-dream, but are there more realistic ideas out there now.

  2. Anonymous says:

    How true…just back from Damascus where ordinary people by houses for cash and never heard of mortgages…

  3. Anonymous says:

    The problem under the current circumstances is that even more enlightened leadership would operate with the same hegemonic-consumerist model that will enventually cause serious ecological damage or some kind of confrontation with China.

    Excellent point, Kdm, that was part of my frustration with Kerry. For a guy who advocated alternative energy, he was still deeply in the dominant paradigm of consumer bliss.

    First, you invest heavily in alternatives. Every Dem in 2008 ought to be saying, â€what if we had invested the $600 billion we squandered in Iraq on alternatives, and then push that kind of financial commitment (if our bankers will let us). If you can’t fund it with taxpayer dollars, do some serious partnering tied into new regulations on alternatives.

    Second, you make sure are paying the real costs of goods from overseas. Importers don’t adequately pay for their security fees (and wee need to increase them, particularly with shipping containers). They don’t pay for the infrastructure in this country. They don’t pay for waste removal. You gradually raise those costs, forcing importers to pay the full cost of their goods. As a result, SOME things will get cheaper to make in the US. Probably not underwear, but probably a lot of larger manufactured goods. You’ll still be able to get a pineapple in the off-season, if you want. But since you’ll be buying local produce, your locally grown peaches will taste better than the pineapple.

    Third, you adopt a rural strategy to bring back the family farm and the localized production that accompanies it. It’d have to be a two-prong strategy. First, charge the factory farms for everything they do (like environmental impacts, both from pesticides and from fecal waste). Make it easier for farmers to get non-predatory loans. Break up the big buyers so that farmers have more than two or three buyers to sell their goods to. SOme of this is just smart long-term–when peak oil hits, we’ll need diverse localized farming, and we sure as hell won’t want to continue spraying our crops with petroleum based pesticides. But I also think it will foster a localism.

    Tax advertising, hard. Right now, companies get to write off advertising, which basically makes it subsidized propaganda with no controls on truth claims. Gotta end that.

    That’s my start. It won’t end consumer bliss. But it will begin to wean people off of it while revitalizing local markets.

  4. John Casper says:

    Hopeful polling data from Haaretz:
    â€Public believes IDF not winning the warâ€
    â€â€¦..Only 20 percent of respondents said that if the war ended today, it would be possible to declare Israel the winner. Some 30 percent said that Israel is losing, while 44 percent said that neither side is winning.

    However, many people said that they had trouble answering this question, as they lacked relevant data.

    Only 39 percent of the respondents backed the cabinet’s decision to expand the ground operation. Another 26 percent favored continuing the fighting in its current form, but stepping up diplomatic efforts, while 28 percent advocated an immediate cease-fire and a diplomatic agreement….â€
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/749604.html

  5. Mimikatz says:

    Hersh’s article is very interesting. Most disturbing is his conclusion that the lack of success of Israel’s mission wouldn’t deter Cheney, Bush and the neocons. The bombing of Lebanon has shown, once again, that a population that is bombed does not open its arms to the bombers. The anticipated Sunni coalition to oppose the Shia has similarly failed to materialize as the regimes who nominally support us had to support Hezballah after a few days. Hezballah still has the missles capable of hitting Tel Aviv; they haven’t been destroyed. So why would we go ahead against Iran? Especially when Iran has missles that presumably could hit our troops and bases in Iraq?

    The shrinking housing market, rising interest rates and growing debt burden, along with higher oil prices, are already reducing the standard of living of most Americans, whether they realize it or not. I do think that most Americans might trade mindless consumerism for more self-sufficiency and real community if they understood that that was the trade-off. The only person who can credibly make that pitch is Al Gore. Any other Dem candidate is going to just be a little less of the same.

  6. KdmFromPhila says:

    I like your response EW (Can I say â€heckuva job, wheelieâ€?)

    Here are my questions to your ideas.

    1.â€First, you invest heavily in alternatives. Every Dem in 2008 ought to be saying, â€what if we had invested the $600 billion we squandered in Iraq on alternatives, and then push that kind of financial commitment (if our bankers will let us).â€

    Do you think the bankers will kill the idea? Second question: would this argument be elctorally effective?

    2.â€Second, you make sure are paying the real costs of goods from overseas.†You got it. Security costs as well as the environmental costs. It’s outrageous that free trade deals like NAFTA seem to be designed to reward agricultural producers who do serious econlogical harm with pesticides and the like.

    3. Local farms…like the idea… just wonder if it would enjoy much support at the ballot box.

  7. Anonymous says:

    EW, ok I’ll reveal a bit about myself here by linking over to this editorial from my very favorite magazine, The Small Farmers’ Journal. The oped I’m attaching is delving into a little known, pervasive, hideous, unAmerican plan by the Dept of Ag to chip all farm animals. The chips are to locate, say your stray hen, who’s gone for a toot over to the neighbors, costs vary, the chip at first cost $75 per animal and could track by satellite your pet/dinner. Now people can do it themselves for much less … think what that does to the cost of meat in US and our exports as well. http://www.smallfarmersjournal…..Miller.pdf

  8. Anonymous says:

    Kdm

    Yeah, I think you can make a great winning coalition out of that. Win back the rural voters and appeal to a sense of idyll that might replace the false idyll of the suburbs. Even at the local level, consider how often someone moves into a Exurb believing it will remain that green; by the time the 1043755th big box store comes in, the residents are aghast. If you can make the farms viable, you make idyll viable.

    mainsail

    One thing I’ve been thinking of pushing, if MI even gets a budget again, is to employ a state meat inspector. You have that, and famers can slaughter their meat locally and you can eat within 100 miles. But they got rid of all the state inspecters some years back, so the farmers have to send their cattle to Nebraska to be slaughtered inhumanely.

  9. al-Fubar says:

    Second question: would this argument be electorally effective?

    As a purely practical matter that is the first question.

    But a broader observation: â€consumer bliss†as an underlying political strategy has been breaking down for decades. For working class Americans, the era of generally rising standards of living – i.e., rising real wages – ended about 1973.

    Since then, times have gotten generally harder for the poor (e.g., a declining real minimum wage), and been no better than stagnant for people in the broad middle. Only for the top third or so has the standard of living continued to rise, and now even they are starting to get squeezed.

    It is no accident – not a plot, but still no accident – that culture-war politics has been ascendent since the 70s. The GOP has done exactly what their Middle East buddies do: pander to religious fundamentalism as a distraction. Dems have inadvertently made it easier for them by concentrating on the socially marginalized while not offering much to the economically struggling.

    Telling people they have to â€give up consumerism†would backfire – to people just hanging on, it sounds like a promise of even smaller paychecks. Consumerism is already being buried. Old-hat as it sounds, something like â€get America working again†would play much better – and it implicitly draws a link between the palpable incompetence of the Bushies and the broader squeeze that people feel themselves in.

  10. mamayaga says:

    Al Fubar –

    Since 1973 is an awfully long time for people to wake up to the fact that the Republican Party doesn’t really have their best interests at heart. They don’t appear to have quite accomplished it even now. I recall a survey that was done not long after the 2004 election that discovered that many voters no longer have the concept that government can, will, or should make their lives better. They all longed for universal health care, for instance, but didn’t see that government would be able to provide it. Our 30-year drought of government that doesn’t work for people (and yes, thinking of NAFTA and welfare â€reform,†I’m including the Clinton administration, ) apparently has weaned Americans from the idea that government can solve thorny economic problems in ways that benefit ordinary people. And this is notwithstanding that the few such programs that remain — like Social Security and Medicare — remain wildly popular. It may take another Depression to jolt this country into another era of New Deal thinking.

  11. jonnybutter says:

    Publius cites another key item from the Hersh article:

    Earlier this summer, before the Hezbollah kidnappings, the U.S. government consultant said, several Israeli officials visited Washington, separately, “to get a green light for the bombing operation and to find out how much the United States would bear.†The consultant added, “Israel began with Cheney. It wanted to be sure that it had his support and the support of his office and the Middle East desk of the National Security Council.†After that, “persuading Bush was never a problem, and Condi Rice was on board,†the consultant said.

    .

    We don’t know if this is true, but it may as well be. It’s reeks of Bolton and Cheney, perhaps making a ’last stand’, hoping that history will admire their elan (rhetorical Peace With Honor). We’re near the end of the movie now, the part when the evil genius is finally cornered – forced to drop all pretense and sincerely try to persuade us that he ’meant well’. Unfortunately, the guy’s nuts!

    Great post, EW.

  12. al-Fubar says:

    mamayaga – it’s a strange disconnect. For the longest time, GOP mismanagement was a paradoxical political success: By screwing things up they reinforced the idea that government is inherently incompetent, to their own ideological benefit.

    In so many ways, though, Katrina may have been a turning point. Natural disasters were one area where Americans did expect government to step in, and to do so competently. To put it bluntly and indelicately, floods and such are only supposed to kill hundreds or thousands of people in Third World countries, not in the US of A. And Katrina hasn’t faded from public consciousness.

    So the opening is there, if we have the nerve to exploit it.

  13. Anonymous says:

    I was at least as interested in who that consultant was. I thought it might be Perle or Ledeen, but by the end the consultant sounds sane, so neither is possible.

    I also find it interesting the way Hersh says NSC–he’s talking pretty exclusivley about Abrams. But he doesn’t say it. I might return to this article to try to map out the WAY Hersh describes people.

    And one more thing. Notice the way he describes Condi. She’s still trying to mediate differing viewpoints. But that’s not her job anymore. Her portfolio is State, not NSA.

    Which led me to another question. Where the fuck is Stephen Hadley? Aren’t we paying him to mediate disputes? Why hasn’t he surfaced in the infighting going on over Lebanon and Iran? Why are we paying an NSA who seems to be on a longer vacation than Bush?

  14. Anonymous says:

    EW – the really nasty part of the law is that it will pertain to all farm animals, ie llamas & goats, it’s for tracking purposes and guess who has a whole batch of stock in the chip company … Tom Ridge. Whether you sell your animal for meat or not the animal must still be chipped and reports made of its travel or sale. In this state we still have call up butchers who will come out and farm butcher and as long as meat is not for resale there’s no required inspection. But with the new law, each animal will still have to be chipped regardless. Small farmers are endangered because of it. Just a little farming news for a Sunday, back to your regularly programed show.

  15. al-Fubar says:

    What is the pretext for this farm animal tracking scheme? Cattle rustling? Livestock suicide bombers?

  16. nedweenie says:

    The rationale behind Animal ID is to track & prevent Mad Cow and ecoli tainted meat… except the huge factory farms would be nearly exempt, with one tag per lot of x number of animals. And they don’t make it clear why horses and bunnies need tags too.

    It’s really an attempt to burden the small boutique farmers (and homesteaders) with costs that will eventually put them out of business. Perdue for everyone! No exceptions!

  17. Anonymous says:

    WO

    Damn! I always get into trouble when I venture into pop culture.

    Though of course it’s a bit moot. We may own these movies. But they’re often as not being made in other countries.

  18. thump says:

    EW, you wrote:

    Our political system has, for the last several decades, traded consumer bliss for political stability. That consumer bliss has, at least since the 1970s, depended on a kind of neocolonialism dressed up as â€free trade†and â€globalization.â€

    I’ve seen bits of this here and there, but have yet to wrap my mind around it. Would you recommend a book or two that goes over how this works step by step? Thanks.

  19. terrycojones says:

    Hi ew.

    I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on one issue that I thought you were going to touch but did not. There are various people, some of them economists (for what that’s worth) who claim that the fact that oil is priced in dollars (not, say, in euros) is key to many things. These claims go so far as to say that there would be a total US financial and economic meltdown if there was a significant worldwide move to price oil in euros (step one: international demand for the dollar disappears) and that the US would go to war to prevent that. Then have a look at the various countries that have moved to price oil in euros (or other currency). I wondered about all this a few times before spending some time digging up links, reading, and trying to fit it into a coherent picture. Understanding economic cause and effect arguments is definitely not my strong point. But from what I read and understood, the issue looks real. Have you looked into it at all? I can post a couple of the more useful URLs I read if you’re interested.

    Terry

  20. terrycojones says:

    Hi ew.

    I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on one issue that I thought you were going to touch but did not. There are various people, some of them economists (for what that’s worth) who claim that the fact that oil is priced in dollars (not, say, in euros) is key to many things. These claims go so far as to say that there would be a total US financial and economic meltdown if there was a significant worldwide move to price oil in euros (step one: international demand for the dollar disappears) and that the US would go to war to prevent that. Then have a look at the various countries that have moved to price oil in euros (or other currency). I wondered about all this a few times before spending some time digging up links, reading, and trying to fit it into a coherent picture. Understanding economic cause and effect arguments is definitely not my strong point. But from what I read and understood, the issue looks real. Have you looked into it at all? I can post a couple of the more useful URLs I read if you’re interested.

    Terry

  21. William Ockham says:

    ew,

    Now that I’ve had time to reflect on this piece, it’s got me thinking. How will our empire end? I don’t see any way that we’ll escape as well as the Brits did. It looks more and more like we’ll end up like Spain (another empire based on extractive principles), but if the current bunch stays in charge, we may end up like Rome. Or worse, we’ll end up like the Maya or the Easter Islanders (the Jared Diamond scenario).