Intelligence Puts a Crimp in Dick’s War-Mongering
You’ve no doubt heard the news that the NIE on Iran’s nuclear ambitions judges (with moderate certainty) that Iran has no active nuclear weapon program.
That’s great news. But I’m just as interested in the back story of why we got this news in the first place. As the NYT reveals (h/t Danger Room), the Deputy Director of National Intelligence released the NIE to make sure it was accurately represented.
In a separate statement accompanying the N.I.E., Deputy Director of National Intelligence Donald M. Kerr said that given the new conclusions, it was important to release the report publicly “to ensure that an accurate presentation is available.”
Shorter Mr. Kerr: Stephen Hadley’s already madly spinning this result wildly, and I wanted to make sure he didn’t do worse.
But that makes me mighty curious about the timing of this decision. Take a look at the timing in this key judgment.
We assess with moderate confidence Tehran had not restarted its nuclear weapons program as of mid-2007, but we do not know whether it currently intends to develop nuclear weapons. [my emphasis]
In other words, the most important key judgment in this NIE (in terms of impeding Dick’s war-mongering, at least) comes from mid-2007. That’s pretty fascinating timing, given the time line of Dick’s attempts to stifle the key judgments on Iran. Here’s a time line taken excerpted from this article.
November 2006: NIE "completed."
January 5, 2007: John Negroponte resigns as DNI, reportedly because of fight over NIE.
February 2007: NIE completed; Cheney objecting to content.
April 26, 2007: Thomas Fingar announces NIE will be delayed due to Ahmadinejad’s demagoguery.
June (?) 2007: Information collected that supports claim Iran’s nuclear program remains suspended.
Early October 2007: BushCo considers spiking the NIE.
October 27, 2007: David Shedd reveals Mike McConnell has made it harder to declassify NIE judgments–leading most observers to believe the Iran NIE would not be released.
Early November 2007: Administration decides to release NIE, but not publish judgments.
November 22, 2007: Mohammed el Baradei states Iran is cooperating, though IAEA still has questions about its nuclear program.
December 1, 2007: Mohammed el Baradei states that bombing Iran would ensure it gets the bomb more quickly.
December 3, 2007: NIE key judgments released.
Now, I don’t know what to make of that timeline. How is it, after over a year of squabbling, the DNI suddenly releases a report that absolutely guts all of Dick’s warmonger claims? Did the mid-2007 information verifying Iran still had no active program come in response to Ahmadinehad’s demagoguery, or was it an attempt to shut Cheney up? In any case, how did DNI decide not only not to kowtow to Cheney’s attempts to politicize intelligence (again), but even release these results? Kudos to the IC.
Kevin Drum thinks it might be pressure from Congress. But I wonder whether Baradei wasn’t able to mobilize pressure internationally that gave some folks in this country more room for leverage?
Update: Amanda collects all the war-mongering Bush and Cheney have been doing in recent months, after the mid-2007 intelligence proved that they were wrong.
“So I’ve told people that if you’re interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them from have the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon. I take the threat of Iran with a nuclear weapon very seriously.” [Bush, 10/17/07]
“Our country, and the entire international community, cannot stand by as a terror-supporting state fulfills its grandest ambitions. … The Iranian regime needs to know that if it stays on its present course the international community is prepared to impose serious consequences.” [Cheney, 10/21/07]
[snip]
“We talked about Iran and the desire to work jointly to convince the Iranian regime to give up their nuclear weapons ambitions, for the sake of peace.” [Bush, 11/7/07]
“We’re in a position now, clearly, especially when we look at Iran, where it’s very, very important we succeed in our efforts, our national security efforts, to discourage the Iranians from enriching uranium and producing nuclear weapons.” [Cheney, 11/9/07]
Any bets whether anyone besides Helen asks why they’ve been lying to us for six months?
You are ON FIRE today!
Hello, I’am new to the site, but not the garbage they have been feeding us for some time over the events that seem to be pulling our country down in to the toliet. Thank you for someone to tell the truth about these folks. This goes back to Nixon’s admin. We never even heard of terrorism in this country until the first Bush was director of the C-I-A. I would so like to put these people out of office and get some sense back in the White house. Thanks again for staying on top of these liars and thugs. They are war crimanals and need to be delt with like Bush delt with so many death row inmates in the great state of Texas as Gov. Keep fighting the good fight. If you need help in your crusade feel free to count me in! JF in TN.
What’s poor Dick to do? Sounds like the Intelligence community has stood up to VP Cheney and refuses to concede. It is obvious he has become a lame duck VP. When will congress realize the same for GW?
EW,
I’m going way out on a limb here, but another way to interpret what’s happened wrt the Iran NIE, is that Junya and Deadeye after much huffing and puffing in an attempt to fan the flames of Iran War Fever have reluctantly come to the following conclusions:
1. They won’t be able to generate sufficient political support for War with Iran.
2. They don’t have a military plan to win a War with Iran. An Air Force-led bombing campaign makes for great cable news video, but eventually it stops and what one is left with is a wounded, but enraged and deranged Iran who’s out for real payback.
3. If Junya and crew can’t get a successful Iran war off the ground, then it is time for Plan B.
What is Plan B you ask?
Tis very simple. Plan B is punt this down the road to the next presumably Democratic Administration.
Plan B is also to go on the offensive with that Democratic Administration and blame it for failing to stop Iran’s presumed acquisition of nuclear weapons.
Plan B is also meant to restore a Repug Administration in 2012 on the basis of an expected failure by the 2008-elected Democratic Administration to deal with Iran.
Plan B also takes into account the necessary refurbishment and re-strengthening of US ground forces that will have been removed from Iraq by the 2008-elected Democratic Administration. By 2012, the Repugs figure the US ground forces will be ready again for another ME war go-around.
Shorter Junya: “Ah’m saving War with Iran for mah brother Jebby. Tain’t fair to have all the fun mahself.”
The trouble with that hypothesis is that anyone & his dog can solve the Iran problem. Iran offered a grand bargain in 04 (I think, or maybe 05), thru Switzerland. Iran would give up its nuclear enrichment in exchange for some serious guarantees about fuel, and entrance back in the family of nations. W spurned it, including scolding Swizz intermediary for passing it on. Followed by “Axis of Evil” in the next SOTU.
I think it would be fairly easy to reach a reasonable bargain with Iran. The neocons (U.S. ones and Israeli ones) don’t want a bargain with Iran. They want a boggie man.
The Q: Is Hillary a neocon. I think she is.
I do agree that such a bargain exists, but like you I think, it is not now nor likely in any Repug near-term future design to “appease” Iran.
And given that Repugs have honed their obstructionist minority skills to the max, I think that we’re in for more years of their slash and burn political thuggery.
My comment was in response to yours that the Rs were plopping an unsolvable problem in the Ds lap, so the Ds would fail & we’d elect a R prez in 12. (Nice symmetry to that: 1-term B, 2-term C, 2-term B, 1-term C.)
My point was that a D could reach bargain with Iran, if the D wanted to.
I understood that, and my further point *g* is that the Repugs ain’t gonna allow that to happen if they can stop it. And given their obstructionist expertise, I would expect them to give it a mighty try.
Got it now.
Obstruct it how? Why wouldn’t a Democratic President who really wanted to do a deal with Iran do it in a way that can be justified as an exercise of his/her powers as the Unitary Executive, and bypass the Senate ratification process?
Wouldn’t you love to be a fly on the wall in Addington’s office at the Heritage Foundation the day that goes down? “But … but … that’s not what we meant.”
Karma can be such fun …
depends on how you define “the iran problem” – i’m thinking that you don’t define it the same way our Very Serious friends in the Foreign Policy clerisy.
From what I can tell there’s a lot of mainstream foreign policy types who think the grand bargain is doable. Flynt Leverett & his wife, Hillary Mann, come immediately to mind. Thought they just wrote a book together on the subject but it doesn’t come up on amazon so perhaps it’s a paper.
oh, i agree – and a grand bargain of the type described by leverett and mann would be my idea of how to deal with the problem.
i just think that there are a hell of a lot more people who think the iran problem is requires regime change – because the “problem” is that the current regime does not acknowledge our right to supremacy, and instead sees itself as an independant local power.
My “regime change” rant. I think the U.S. would be much better off if we left other countries alone. Think they would be better off too. Can’t say that I’m quite in tune with libertarians on this yet, but the more I learn about foreign policy escapades of the past, the more I believe that staying out of the fray is superior.
I first out-louded this during last year’s ski season. The lodge I stay at has a group dinner table. The hostess, knowing me well, tries to keep the conversation off the topic, but one night we got onto Iraq & what a disaster it was. A war supporter, challenging my assetion that we shouldn’t have intervened, asked what I would do about Darfur. He thought he had a gotcha. But my answer was that I didn’t know enough about Darfur to have an opinion, and that in general thought we should not intervene unless we could be confident (really confident, not W confident) of improving the situation. The other diner was very disappointed he couldn’t trap a bleeding heart librul.
leverett has been reporting for four years that Iran has been trying to negotiate with numerous administrations.
Is Hilary a neocon?
Don’t forget that the Godfather of the neocons, both Dem and Repub, was Scoop Jackson, a Democrat. The DLC carries the Scoop Jackson banner as one of its Holy Artefacts.
Bob in HI
PS Preview doesn’t work
I, too, think HRC is a neocon. She consistently stays on the path of American exceptionalism and foreign policy by coercion. The Kyl/Lieberman amendment is a perfect example of this policy. If Iran won’t voluntarily behead its government the US reserves the right to foment regime change by any means it can think of, including CIA support for terrorism inside Iran and threatening to destroy its power generation infrastructure by air bombardment.
She is beholden to the I-Lobby. John Edwards not taking any Pac money
K. Drum speculates that the Iran NIE was released owing to Congressional pressure.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.c…..012623.php
Thanks very much for distilling out that timeline.
Congrats on the new digs, ew. Very nice and I see you are wasting no time. A gal can miss a lot by not visiting TNH for half a day…
This is interesting. If the release was due to pressure from congress or international influence, it’s hard for me to imagine that the neocons are going to give up on their Iran war without a fight. Well at least they are usually pretty transparent in what they are after, so we should have some idea before too long what’s up.
Off to read Drum and catch up on your other posts.
OT
TPM launches “Golden Duke” muck awards. Read all about it.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/060120.php
It is very strange that the NIE came out the way it did. Shooter can’t be a happy camper today. I’ll enjoy watching Bill the Bloody’s head explode then watch Liebercrap spin the dangers of the Iranian regime.
And, no, no one willl ask why the administration has been lying for 6 months.
I have really been surprised that Acting President Cheney was unsuccessful at selling the Iran campaign. It was a pretty transparent attempt, but, still, I thought that he could fool the U.S. twice, expecially with the lapdog press eating ot his hand.
I also thought that Goss’s job was to purge the CIA of anyone not with the program. So imagine my surprise today.
The release of the NIE today is the sound of a dam breaking IMO.
Let’s hope so. I honestly can’t quite get my head around it myself.
So will the radicals turn up the heat on the inflammatory IED’s from Iran claims or the sections of the Kyl Liebermann amendment that define the Iranian Revolutionary guard as terrorist?
As Seymour Hersh noted this summer (and many other bloggers, and commenters had been bringing up) in one of his article’s at the New Yorker the warmongers shifted Americans attention from their failing efforts to convince folks that Iran had a nuclear weapons plan to the Iranian’s are terrorist and killing Americans in Iran with Ied’s. Will we hear more of this?
On Meet the Press this Sunday Senator Webb repeated that the Kyl Liebermann amendment was “tantamount to declaring war” on Iran. And that the Bush administration believes that under the umbrella of the 2002 war resolution vote they could pre-emptively attack Iran.
To think that Hillary voted for this amendment( “if only I knew then what I know now” did not work then and will certainly not work now) and Obama conveniently slipped out the back door on this vote. John Edwards called Hillary out on this vote at one of the debates. He said that he would never give the Bush administration another opportunity to pre-emptively attack another nation based on false intelligence.
I really respect Edwards for not taking Pac money. Are there any other candidates who are not taking Pac money?
One more wildarsed speculation. Is there a link between the unproductive but still important PR Annapolis conference and the timing of this public release?
Don’t know how that could possibly be.
And think about the timing! Not buried but a 4pm release on the Thursday before Thanksgiving, but right up there in time to catch the Monday news cycle. The backstory on this will be fascinating when we all find out.
The link would probably be more correspondence (perhaps indicating that Condi is definitely driving the ship) than causation.
Knowing of its release may have caused Cheney’s heart defibrulation last week?!
re: Cheney’s heart:
Stress can trigger an episode of atrial fibrillation.
Bob in HI
Resigning for health. How long can we pray?
Or Joe Biden’s “threat” to move for impeachment if Junya and Deadeye try to go to War with Iran?
“Is there a link between the unproductive but still important PR Annapolis conference and the timing of this public release?”
You know, I wouldn’t go so far as to say probable, but it is quite possible. We discussed about a week ago the dynamics of the Annapolis meeting and who was pulling the strings to get some of the more reticent parties to the table. Lot of discussion, and some general agreement that some of the elders are making an effort to clean up the party and right the ship for the GOP before it slips below the surface. Look around, we chuckle at each of the efforts individually (and rightfully so for the most part), but even I am starting to see a pattern from Gates to Fallon to Negroponte to Mukasey to Rove etc. I think Baker, Poppi, and some of the truly old guard are, although not refurbishing the house, at least putting in new carpet and paint for better curb appeal to the 2008 prospective buyers. Viewed from that standpoint, I think the public release of this could be part of the plan. It sure looks like they are trying to dial back not just the warmongers here, but the trepidation over there in the Middle East. Getting all those parties together for the Kum bay ya (don’t know how to spell that) was one step. Releasing this NIE would, you think, add to the picture they are now trying to paint of diplomacy rather than war. Maybe it is all part of some whole cloth. Who knows.
I could accept the notion that the adults are trying to clean up the house, but there’s more than that going on here. Cleaning up the house would require the give some positive response to the IAEA reports, or make gestures involving diplomacy. that’s not happening. Instead, we get, our of nowhere, an NIE that says the WH has been lying to us for at least six months, and the people it had in charge of intelligence in 2005 were completely wrong. This report says the US National Security establishment is completely incompetent, dishonest, or both — there’s no other way to read this except as a devastating indictment of the Administration. They send out their national security advisor and he looks like an idiot.
Suggests this was forced on the WH — who could do that? And with what?
You mean Kucinich hacked into the CIA computers?
Heh heh. Yeah, I said it was possible; not necessarily probable. But seriously, if there is a cleanup underway (clearly there is of at least some sort, how much of one, and by whom, we don’t know), the more difficult parts of it would have to be forced on the WH. If the instant release is indeed part of some such effort, it is definitely one of the forced parts. I have no real idea what levers are being manipulated by what lever-pushers behind the scenes; they are clearly doing some clean up, how far it goes, how coordinated it is and whether it actually reaches difficult topics like Iran/Iranian WMD is anybody’s guess. I don’t think our two thoughts are necessarily in conflict; not to mention mine is somewhat lame musing to start with….
This Sunday on Meet the Press Senator Webb brought up how there has not been any movement on the middle east conference recommended by the Baker Study Group which would be focused on the situation in Iraq. No effort at all.
Now that would be a good question for the NPR debate in Iowa tomorrow. For all of the Democratic candidates
“Will you move forward on the Baker Study groups recommendation for a middle east conference on the situation in Iraq?”
Scarecrow — just want to add my two cents to bmaz’ point about the adults stepping in. In an exchange I had with Sara (who’s political instincts are infinitely superior to my own, so trying to give credit where it is due here), she suggested that the Republican power center that Baker represents is doing what they can to tidy up the mess the neocons have created. She suggested that Gates replacing Rumsfeld and Mukasey replacing Gonzales were part of this process. I was puzzled at the time how the Baker faction could exert their authority given that Cheney and Bush actually occupy the White House. And I don’t know the answer, but if we assume for the moment that this is correct, then your view that Gates and the larger Pentagon community is trying to do an end run around Cheney’s ambitions is consistent with Sara’s take on the Baker faction’s influence. I speculated that in this context, the Baker faction (via Papa Bush’s connections) could have put a bug in the Saudi’s ear to help get the Annapolis meeting off the ground. So this potentially is all of a piece.
Undoubtedly myriad alternatives exist, but I do have a hard time imagining Baker Republicans sitting idly by while the neocons torpedo their party.
bmaz,
Good to see you at the lake. Driveby but will get in touch soon. Claus
Happy holidays my friend.
that was my first thought, EW – that the conference had not one damn thing to do with Israel and Palestine and everything to do with dropping the hammer on Bush/Cheney… and the NIE is the ONLY way to back off the rhetoric… but I know nothin’… but I do find the timing to be awfully curious.
I must say, I just LOVE the new digs… mostly because it makes it past the school district’s firewall… I knew you’d hit the big time when FDL and The Next Hurrah got blocked… hell, they only blocked Huffington Post a couple months ago… TNH and Firedoglake have been blocked since before the Libby trial (and frankly, that was murder!)
Let’s not tell ‘em, mmmkay?
If Drum is right, and congressfolks are throwing a kiniption, I’d say we’re getting impeachment back on the table. I’m guessing Nancy is waiting for a public roar for impeachment from every state in the union. Then they can get going on criminal charges.
Think that’s going a step too far. Impeachment could only be done before the end of the term if the Ds got cracking on it & there’s no sign of that. Remember they have to do 2: Cheey first, then W.
Re the Impeachment Two Step:
If you start with Cheney, you’re going to get a two-fer anyway, because they are joined at the hip on some of the most critical events, like outing Valerie Plame. So,
* start with Cheney
* evidence accumulates not only about Cheney but about Bush
* Evidence agaist Cheney reaches critical mass; he attempts to fall on sword to save Bush and resigns or croaks, a la Bill Casey during Iran-Contra
* Congress accepts nomination of a Ford-clone to replace Cheney, someone like Sen. John Warner
* Evidence against Bush continues to accumulate, and reaches critical mass;
* A delegation of Republicans including Richard Lugar, Chuck Hagel, & Susan Collins pays a visit to Bush to explain that the gig is up
* Bush resigns in attempt to save party by releasing himself as the albatross hung round their necks as campaign season heats up and Republican support for Bush crumbles.
* Warner becomes President for 6 months.
Bob in HI
PS Preview doesn’t work
Bob – I love your game plan; please put it into action immediately! You know, seriously, the House impeachment managers and, really even more so, their staff counsels and staff do most of the heavy work on impeachment. It simply does not have to be that big a drag on the operation of Congress. The Senate is not even involved until articles of impeachment are passed out of the House and, if I recall correctly, the Senate trial on Clinton did not take all that long. Impeachment is something that can and should be done. Remember all the shouting by the GOP about the “Rule of Law” in forcing the Clinton impeachment – well it really applies here and now. If the Constitution is not protected, the violations that have occurred become ingrained and ratified to some extent. More importantly, the malefactors and their enabling underlings are left to roam and raise their ugly head again; as we have seen repeatedly from Watergate and Iran-Contra. They are working on preview and some other bugs. There is a lot going on this week, the surprises aren’t done, give them time. You are going to really like the finished product.
bmaz,
I had to re-read about three times here. What is the finished product I’m really going to like? FDL, or Congress finally mobilizing itself to purge the rapers of the Consitution? Line breaks and paragraph breaks are my friends. Thanks for your reply!
Bob in HI
Heh heh. Sorry about that. Congress, eh, I am not holding my breath for one second. They are lame; but like I said, it is NOT because it can’t be done or that it would “shut the whole Congress down” or whatever.
The last two sentences above should have been a separate paragraph. I have a pretty good inkling the surprises at FDL are not done and there will be more throughout the week. When the dust settles, I think there will be something pretty remarkable here. Just my guess….
The majority of the American public are too busy watching football and driving to the mall. How about a shout.
Who would Jesus Impeach?
OT
For all you Trex pals, a mummified dinosaur is compared to King Tut.
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/m…..0000000001
The thing about this NIE revelation is that it proves that the Administration is repeating history and attempting (this time unsuccessfully) to fix the facts to fit their agenda and lie us into war. This is the perfect time for Congress to rise up in outrage at getting “duped” again (as if they didn’t know it), and proceed with impeachment…Cheney first, and then Bush.
Since so many things interconnect in this crime family in D.C., is there any possibility that the new head of DoJ is somehow involved in this decision?
Or is it possible that someone was readying an expose here? And this is a preemptive release.
And since they knew this more than a year ago, how did this play into the run-up to the election? Not releasing the info.
Or how would this have affected the presentation on the surge in September?
I’m not saying any of these things are necessarily involved, but I’m thinking to ask a lot of questions here. How did the non-release affect certain events? And how does the release now perhaps affect other events? The primaries, for example. Where does Rove fit… or not? Could it have been part of deal related to confirming the new head of DoJ? Or anything else?
Just a bunch of questions. But do time-lines on other things, methinks. Not just related to this. But tangential. Going back over a year. (or more)
I don’t have the answers. But I’m in the question-asking business.
The wingnuts seem to be searching around for some way, any way, to spin the NIE as a wonderful thing. Victor Davis E Pluribus Davis tests out the “it’s bad for Democrats!” warhorse:
The latest news from Iran about the supposed abandonment in 2003 of the effort to produce a Bomb — if even remotely accurate — presents somewhat of a dilemma for liberal Democrats.
Are they now to suggest that Republicans have been warmongering over a nonexistent threat for partisan purposes? But to advance that belief is also to concede that, Iran, like Libya, likely came to a conjecture around (say early spring 2003?) that it was not wise for regimes to conceal WMD programs, given the unpredictable, but lethal American military reaction.
After all, what critic would wish now to grant that one result of the 2003 war-aside from the real chance that Iraq can stabilize and function under the only consensual government in the region-might have been the elimination for some time of two growing and potentially nuclear threats to American security, quite apart from Saddam Hussein?
So, taking out Sadam scared the bejebus out of the mullahs in Tehran and they stopped trying to make nuclear weapons – a huge win for the Bush doctrine! Apparently, the administration has know this for quite some time, yet they’ve been saying the exact opposite. Davis would have us believe that the most unpopular and least successful administration in thirty years has squelched good news for the past four years, and they’re just getting around to telling us this wonderful news today. Sure Vic.
Random thoughts of possible players and motives:
If it’s true that Petraus actually didn’t finish his report in time for WH approval last Sept, then it would be interesting to know how the Army really feels about war against Iran that would almost certainly demolish their route south. (See Iraq Oil Report or Juan Cole for details.)
Maybe Rove’s comments — laying the early groundwork for a wingnut ‘we were stabbed in the back on Iraq’ meme — finally pushed some of the Dem leadership over the edge and they worked with some of the intel folks to call b.s.?
Maybe Rove’s comments, combined with the news that Wolfie’s getting yet another government sinecure — this time at DoS — finally pushed someone into calling bullsh*t publicly?
Maybe someone found out what in heck was going on with those B-52s carrying the nukes to the takeoff point for Iran in late August led to unraveling other plots? (Never seen a good followup, so this is only an out of my arse guess, but IIRC about 5 upper level Air Force commanders were kicked out of the military, so must something more than too much booze must have been factors.)
Maybe Murtha is working with military, including Adm. ‘put the crazies back in the box’ Fallon to spike the BushCheney aggression? And maybe there are plenty of military silently supporting Fallon? (Certainly a lot of retired military seem to be supporting him.)
Maybe the Saudi’s got seriously alarmed and worked with others to expose the BushCheney move toward fiasco? No clue, but from an investor’s standpoint, who wants the US to tank worse than it already is…?
Would be interesting to know whether (or how?) Gates at DOD played a role? (If I were Gates and saw Condi appointing Wolfie over at State, I’d hit the roof, but no clue as to the accuracy of this guess, either.)
Lots of motives.
Nice to see people stand up to these loons.
Finally!
(And I don’t mean that I think the Iranians are sweet, kind-hearted grandpa types; but surely, they’re capable of negotiating.)
Al the Spook’s “ratiocinatins” is still the best summary of this that I’ve seen, even though dated.
Bob in HI
Congrats on the new digs, Marcy!
You sure opened with a bang.
i don’t buy drum’s theory – that congress leaked it. this is the congress that voted overwhelmingly for h.con.res.21, h.r.1400, s.amdt.2073 and s.amdt.3017. maybe a rogue actor – but then i’d expect both the adminstration and congress to up in arms about the “leaker”.
no, i think this is from within the administration.
Congress didn’t leak it. Drum’s point was that it might have been behind-the-scenes pressure from congress.
OT: Nothing to add to present conversation taking place.
Just want to add my wholehearted approval that the famous Marcy Wheeler and her Emptywheel blog is now a part of FDL.
I already spent most of my forum checking/reading time between FDL and TNH. Nice to spend it all in one place where a lot of great minds congregate.
Congratulations to both FDL and TNH.
The site is great!
BTW, selise, it wasn’t ‘leaked’ at all. This is an official CIA release.
sorry, i was not clear – i meant that the dni could have released it formally in response to a congressional leak(s) (or the threat of a leak), that was the type of pressure i was thinking about… although i suppose members of congress could have applied other kinds of pressure. i just have such a hard time seeing that.
Righto. I was thinking it was other kinds of pressure. The TPMM item suggests it wasn’t Rockefeller or Reyes.
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004820.php
Anyhow, lots of good Qs. Good As for later.
Spencer Ackerman at The Muck just posted that it was NOT congressional pressure.
p.s. i agree with your comments on intervention. too often our interventions have been motivated, not by a desire (and competency) to do good, but by the desire for some other goal (masked by humanitarian rhetoric).
I just got here, haven’t read through but here’s what’s brutally clear;
our heros are telling us plain and clear “the president lied to you in the past, they’ve been lying over Iran for year and you better do something fast to save your country”
WHY THE HELL IS THIS MAN NOT BEING IMPEACHED?
I am FED THE FRIG UP with pelosi…HEY, DO YOUR JOB, HONOR YOUR OATH
man I am SO steamed
do you guys have any idea how long it took to impeach clinton?
any idea?
IT TOOK TWO MONTHS
excuse me, let me say that again
TWO MONTHS
i THINK we can afford two friggin months of impeachment hearings
this is really getting rediculous
Oh perris, you’re so cute when you’re mad.
Oy, I don’t know you that well, I hope you don’t take offense. I’m just kidding.
I think you’re flirting with me!!!
*blush* (whiches we could see gender through the tubes)
anyway, we had these kinds of watch dogs raising the alarm during the run up to the invasion of Iraq as well
these men are evil plain and simple…they are trying to force freidman’s depraved economic plans wherever they can so they can steal yet more treasure
and what happens when (if) we FINALLY stop these theives?
what happnes?
nothing, they keep their booty, and they leave it behind for their family’s who will lie in wait for the next oportunity
they’l wait till our children or grandchildren forget and then they will unleash their reign of terror again’
WE CAN DO SOMETHING
and instead we watch’
the jewsish have a saying;
“never forget”
well BULLcrap cause EVERYONE forgot becuase they are at it AGAIN
who’s the boogy man this time???
the darkies?
the Muslims?
who?
and everyone is silent
terrorsim is a tactic not an enemy, we are creating more and more enemies happy to use this tactic called ‘terrorism”
AND THAT’S WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION WANTS
they want endless war, they want constant fear, they want corporations running the planet, they want themselves and then everyone else in robber baron economy’s
I AM STEAMED
from Ike Skelton (chair of house armed services committee):
“Nevertheless, I am encouraged by the assessment that international pressure may have been an important factor in Iran’s decision to suspend its nuclear weapons program. It is in the interest of the United States to continue working with our international partners to ensure that Iran continues on this current path to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons.”
Quisling.
Way to go Perris, I second you!!!
Dayem Bastids!!
Impeach!
Pelosi, where’s the outrage???? Don’t you know you are being played??
Honestly, upon digesting this today, I’m getting madder and madder!!
*longs for edit button*
Some typos are worth keeping.
Gender: Me, female. You, ?
Always assumed you were male.
As for 2 months to impeach Clinton, that was the stoopid wingnuts, who only had one sentence to adjudicate. W would take far longer & have to do Cheney first, then W. Too late for all that.
am a man
we can impeach both at the same time and we don’t have to impeach on all counts
we impeach on the most likely to succeed and then we hold more impeachment after they are out of office
two months, that’s all it will take
Well, you may be right, but doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen.
Just arrest them and get it over with.
OT
Like a few others, I find the text a little small. I’m using IE 6.0 @ work, and View/Text/Larger doesn’t make the text larger, except for the subheader – nn Responses to “Emptywheel Dissects the World and Makes It Comprehensible But Perhaps Not Logical”. I don’t know if that’s a browser issue or a website issue. And Preview Response doesn’t do anything for me.
Tools, Internet options, Accessibility, Ignore font sizes specified on web pages. That got me really big font. I screws up other pages, though, but preferrable to wearing magnifying goggles.
I use Firefox. No problem enlarging text. Consider Firefox?
we need to never give up, we need to press for accountability
it’s the only way we can begin repairing the damage these despots have visited upon our reputation, on our integrity, on our ability to be a fair and trusted broker among nations
we must press on.
must leave for a bit…see all alter
on font size –
marcy’s post is in 12 pt verdana, which is my fav font on for reading on the web (same font as was previously used by firedog lake)… makes reading long posts or long comment threads a breeze (imo).
marcy’s comment thread is 12 pt arial, which i find difficult to read for more than a few minutes. TNH is 13 pt arial which is much better.
the new firedoglake is all 12 pt arial… i haven’t been able to read a whole post and comment thread yet… severe withdrawal symptoms are begining….
The suggestion by eCAHNomics @ 51 worked for me, (actually larger than I like, but preferable to smaller than I’d like) but that’s probably relevant only to IE. I use Firefox @ home.
OT – fonts and legibility.
Something is broken regarding formatting on the new FDL. Is there a particular thread for making comments which might help the WebMaster & WebUnderlings sort things out?
Why wouldn’t Drum suspect Secretary Gates of forcing the release of the NIE. He’s been very vocal saying a war with Iran would be crazy. He has to deal every day with the iraq quagmire and the growing Afghanistan risks; and now Pakistan. The Army and Marines are exhausted. There must have been tremedous pressure coming from the Pentagon to stop the Cheneyites — and since many in the DoD would have known the contents of the NIE — they are the biggest intelligence operation — then they anti-cheney groups could have been pushing hard for release.
The last time the WH buckled was when Comey et al threatened to resign. Would Gates and his national intelligence team have done the same?
This is all just speculation, but I assumed KDrum thought that no one in the Administration would dare go that far. Could be Rice, too, since she’s locked horns with Cheney.
Patience, patience. The backstory will trickled out.
Scarecrow
I think that’s a very likely possibility–probably the best speculation I’ve seen so far.
Knowing now what the NIE says, sure makes the whole “troll along the Iranian border for a missle shot, and then bomb a fertilizer bin in Syria” mission look like a Cheap and Cheesy Attempt to Bait the Iranians into provocative action – long, long after Dick and Bush knew definitively that the Iranians didn’t have an active Weapon’s Enrichment Program going.
That’s what Putin came over to say on the boat to 41 and 43: “Comrades, kom da Iransky, no bombsky!”
Bush and Cheney were bullying for More War – I’ll bet that Syrian ’site’ wasn’t even in the NIE – but rather, a late-coming, left-field ‘fact’ fixed to fit the Policy of Aggressive War aimed at a BushCo-defined ‘Ideological’ enemy.
It has amazed me how many times the right wing cakewalk radicals have been able to repeat unsubstantiated claims about Iran during the last four years. Reuel marc Gerecht, Cheney, Woolsey (came to Ohio and spoke in front of Ohio legislators last year) Ledeen, Bolton have been everywhere repeating false claims about Iran. Most of their claims have gone unchallenged.
This is good news, but will certainly not stop most of these cons from repeating lies.
I listened to some talk Stephen Hadley gave during or just after the recent Middle east summit the other night on C-span. I was actually impressed, he sounded reasonable. Is this the same Stephen Hadley who interfered with the flow of counterintelligence when Condi was National Security Adviser? Is this the same Stephen Hadley who put the 16 words back in Bush’s address? Is this the same Stephen Hadley who Richard Clarke seriously complained about interfering with intelligence?
I saw SH on Olbermann a few minutes ago and he was obviously in pain as he lied thru his teeth claming that Bush was only told last Tuesday that the intelligence commitee had made these key judgements.
Did they only come to that judgement 3 years late?
or did they only inform Waterboarding George three years after they figured it out.
Poor Hadley.
John Forde – I saw that too. Right. Like this crap dropped out of the sky last week. Uh huh.
Bill Moyers had a great piece on public tv last Friday about the Knight-Ridder reporters who actually checked the claims made by various parties as a case for invading Iraq. Someone commented that there are mid-level people in the government who care about the truth, but only whisper in the ear of reporters who interested in getting at the truth. This seems like an example of that.
The lesson presented to the press in this broadcast was that they should not seek out the opinion of people at top, to the exclusion of people who are experienced in government at the middle level. Avoid the impulse to engage in equal opportunity spin and call that objectivity.
Cool site EW… where did you find that stone wheel in your log, that’s pretty cool, too…
reminds me of stone coins from, i think, yap… or truk?
Not a thing up at Weekly Standard, National Review, or Pajamas media about the NIE report. Do you think they will just act like it did not happen?
TPM published a remark today that implied some intelligence agents are or were off the reservation. I wonder if there wasn’t insurrection in the ranks that caused the release. A threat of mass walkouts in protest might have convinced the powers that be to come clean.
I am a little late to the party here… EW, congratulations on the new habitat!
I have been following some of this off and on all day, and one of the first things that struck me was the idea that maybe — just maybe — the Republicans are going to take their party back and get rid of these people. From BMAZ and some others I see some similar ideas. I have just been seeing and hearing too much pushback lately from disenchanted Republican voters who are disgusted — and it has to be true as well for old-line people like Baker. Maybe Poppy has gotten to a point that he is holding his own nose.
As bmaz put it, the adults are maybe going to take over…
Article over at Salon about Hillary’s new attacks on Obama.
EW – Oh my. The mighty Pats have only 10 points starting the 3rd quarter? They are tied with the downtrodden Ravens? Roy Williams out for the year for the Lions? This is not a good coda on your day….
Scratch that. Pats now down 10-17. MaGahee TD run for the Ravens. Oh my.
from haaretz, via laura rozen:
selise – it sounds like, from the news reports, that the shrub has known this for several months… but I’m wondering how long Olmert has had the info…
Selise – Didn’t Annapolis start on last Tuesday? If so, and the Bushies had it “before Annapolis” (like who the hell doesn’t believe the WH has had this for months, if not years) then that pegs them in another lie; because the statement was made today that the WH only learned of this last Tuesday.
Yea, that’s what Hadley was trying to peddle, that Bush only found out on Tuesday what most people with a brain had deduced long ago, that Iran had decided that actively pursuing nuclear weapons at this time was counterproductive and also, as their ayatollahs’ have been saying, contrary to the Muslim religion.
What really pisses me off is the entire Dem establishment buys right into this crap and won’t even say that teh WH has been lying about this for at least six months and probably much longer. Talk about an opposition party in name only!
Much longer. Cheney has been repeating this horseshit about Iran immediately after the invasion of Iraq. Along with his team of lying crazies Bolton, Ledeen, Reuel Marc Gerecht, James Woolsey, Bill Kristol, Ari Fleisher etc. Christ all mighty these liars have been everywhere the last four years repeating unsubstantiated claims about Iran and the majority of their claims have gone unchallenged with the exception of Chris Matthews and Diane Rehm.
yes. conference was tuesday, nov 27 2007
O/T Miracles! Hello! bmaz – Go Buckeyes (sorry EW — it’s a promise from bmaz to me!)
BTW, yes I agree with you and selise, another lie. Remember to layer that lie with the leaked closed session from the Saudies the week before regarding the dollar and whether it would remain…
EW, nice new place you have here. It did take me ALL DAY to finally make through! Well worth the effort. Good luck! You are one amazing in-depth, investigative blogger/journalist and I hope this new opportunity magnifies you gifts and calling.
I meant “your gifts and calling.”
It has been quite a long day getting here…
It’s time for a Real Trump Card to float down to the table…
Marcy,
Congrats on the new crib! Hey, that wheel ain’t empty, it’s full of sunyata…!
The Patriots pulled a rabbit out of a helmet. EW must be having a Beamish in celebration.
Yeah, no kidding MrWhy. Sometimes you have to have a bunch of luck to go with being good. The Pats had not needed the luck part until the last couple of games, but they sure seem to have it.
Hey KLynn!!!
Welcome! Glad you made it.
And yes, MrWhy, the Pats apparently needed all nine of their lives tonight. Who knew you could have six downs in football.
On the hopes Neil sees this–my prediction that Rodney “roids” Harrison would be the weak spot didn’t come true tonight–certainly not when it counted. We shall see.
But I gotta say, isn’t Brady dating some famous cute chick? Because he’s in a crappy mood. He needs to loosen up or something.
Thanks for the welcome.
I have a question. When I made it to the Lake, I noticed Christy has not posted. Is she taking time off? Did I miss an announcement?
KLynn – I think I saw somewhere that Christy is taking some time off/on vacation for a few days.
EW – Brady really did have an uppity, crappy attitude didn’t he? I don’t recall ever seeing that out of him before.
Well, Brady’s been crabby in two ways. First, in teh way he disputes calls. Sometimes his gripes are legit (the Ravens got away with a few holds, in addition to the mugging of Asante Samuel on the last play of the game), sometimes not. But usually he becomes all lovey dovey in time for the press. That didn’t happen this time (though I was amused by his response to a question about the Baltimore time out call–he said he had heard a whistle and stopped and that he would have gotten the First DOwn otherwise).
Mostly, I suspect it’s frustration that things that have been wide open all year–like Randy Moss–he’s having to work for. TO be honest, the throws to Moss have always been crazy. But when you play against backs who can match up, those crazy throws aren’t going to work.
Christy’s in the middle of a–I think–ten day vacation. She’ll be back.
Good for Christy. The work that you folks are dedicated to is critical, but it is so important to take personal and family time.
Shooter must be pissed.
You don’t suppose this is a swap managed by McConnell, maybe? Immunity for telcos in return for locking out an attack on Iran?
Cheney will be on with Russert on Sunday giving us the straight dope from Mossad.
Dick has a real hard-on for Mossad.