Pardon Watch: The Betting Pool

I can’t tell you how many times I started this post–an open thread for predictions of who, how many, how explicit the crimes that Bush would pardon. But every time I started the post, I deleted it–thinking it was unseemly to start Pardon Watch this early (though, admittedly, a full year after Libby’s commutation kicked off the self-protective pardon-fest).

But now Charlie Savage has broached the subject. And Dan Froomkin piled on, too, noting the vile Victoria Toensing calling for pre-emptive pardons of any and all long-term investigations:

‘The president should pre-empt any long-term investigations,’ said Victoria Toensing, who was a Justice Department counterterrorism official in the Reagan administration. ‘If we don’t protect these people who are proceeding in good faith, no one will ever take chances.’

(I guess Victoria doesn’t have much faith in McCain’s ability to win this election….)

So I hereby kick off a once-monthly post calling for predictions on how many Get Out of Jail So You Can Keep Me Out of Jail Free cards Bush issues. Plus one for Roger Clemons, because Bush is a baseball guy…

We’ll give out five hub-caps, one for the most accurate guess each month. bmaz–I’m adding five hubcaps onto your normal football requisition.

Here are my current predictions and Bush’s likely logic behind each:

  • Karl Rove–a vague pardon for any and all crimes committed during the Bush Administration, with an added "Official Duties" claim to give him qualified immunity against the lawsuits
  • Scooter Libby, because outing a CIA NOC on the Vice President’s order shouldn’t be criminal
  • John Yoo, because a President really ought to be able to crush the testicles of a person’s child
  • Brent Wilkes (to protect Dusty Foggo) but not Duke Cunningham (because he’s a snitch)
  • Jose Rodriguez, since the torture portrayed on the torture tapes was ordered by Bush before the relevant opinions were written
  • Alberto Gonzales, so Bush can return the favor of when Gonzales cleansed his drunk driving records in the past
  • Steven Griles, because the oil companies really need to be able to rip off American taxpayers to be competitive
  • Bandar Bush bin Sultan, because it will be a lucrative business move in the long run and because I can assure you the Bush family doesn’t want you to learn about the covert ops the Saudis were doing with money laundered through defense contract deals
  • Roger Clemens, because Bush is a baseball guy

That’s it for me for this year’s predictions–a relatively modest list, I think. No Cheney, no Addington (I think both would consider it an indignity to be pardoned by someone like Bush). No Abramoff, because he’s a snitch. No Jeff Skilling (because he hasn’t be donating to the Republican party of late). None of the legislators (Stevens, Doolittle, Renzi, and the rest of the Abramoff crowd), because it would "taint" Bush’s legacy.

Who am I missing?

  1. DefendOurConstitution says:

    Rummy! Bush will pre-emptively protect him in spite of his direct authorizations to torture.

    I predict 150 pardons between Nov 4th and Jan 20, 2009 (end of an error! as many have said)

    • Teddy Partridge says:

      Yes, my list includes my answers to the question posed at the end of the post.

      Isn’t that how it works around here?

        • Teddy Partridge says:

          Oh, I like everyone on your list. Mine are additions.

          Jose Canseco, Barry Bonds, George Steinbrenner and spawn.

          • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

            Hey, so far I have the most names — and ALL of them are legitimately at risk of prosecution (or would be if we had a fully functioning DoJ).

            I’m all about the hubba-hubba-hub caps.

  2. masaccio says:

    Conrad Black, because if you own a company you should be able to take as much from it as you possibly can.

  3. ohmercy says:

    OOPS, left out the reason.
    Addington because he will need a good lawyer when he leaves office.

    • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

      And, being Addington, no doubt he’ll want to represent himself. He probably thinks he’s the most highly qualified.

      Agree with these names from EW’s list:
      Bandar is probably #2 on GWB’s pardon list, after Dick Cheney.
      (And after Dick, better throw in his wife Lady McCheney and their daughter Elizabeth.)
      Griles – agree
      Wilkes – agree, plus he got that MZM contract for Cheney’s office furniture so he knows enough to have leverage over GWBu$h

      DoJ, primarily Criminal Div and OLC (aka, “The Torture Memos Team”):
      Gonzales, who knows too much to be allowed to go to prison.
      Harriett Miers (same logis as Gonzo)
      Chertoff (head of the DoJ Criminal Div when the torture memos were created)
      Alice Fisher (took over from Chertoff, also involved in creation of torture memos)
      John Yoo (because he’ll have lost his job at Berkeley by then so GWB will claim that he’s been ‘punished enough’)
      Alice Martin (Al), for her ‘help’ with Siegelman (b/c I thought that I spotted some notice that she was being investigated…?)

      Perle, Feith, Cambone, Wurmser, Hannah, Rhodes, Wolfowitz, and whoever else — apart from Franklin — showed up in your ‘Ghorbanifar Timeline’.
      Rumsfeld (can’t risk having him talk)
      Jose Rodriguez (wouldn’t want that CIA interrogator telling what he knows)

      The White House
      Rove, Kyle ‘the Aggregator’ Sampson, Monica Goodling, and the guy who made the phone call to fire them all… Kevin ?.
      Plus Tim Griffin, because he’s undoubtedly done something illegal.
      Plus “Mr. Bedside Visit”, Andy Card
      Dan Bartlett, who must have known something he shouldn’t have and who could probably be roped in on a RICO charge.

      GOP Senators
      Also, quite possibly Trent Lott, his brother-in-law (Dickie…?), and Haley Barbour for GOP money laundering.
      Toobz Stevens, who should probably be charged with fraud or extortion or corruption
      Pete Domenici for his role in having David Iglesias fired.
      Rep Heather Wilson (see Domenici; same reason)

      Some obscure names we don’t know about yet, but who had oversight for RNC servers and the WH email system — GWBu$h can’t risk allowing any of them to talk.
      Including that ghastly woman who doesn’t ever know anything and used to work for Wachovia Bank

      Elliott Abrams, because I read Joe Conason’s It CAN Happen Here, which left no doubt in my mind whatsoever that Abrams has been up to his armpits in deception and subverting the Constitution.

      Condi and Hadley, on RICO charges regarding surveillance, the SOTU, and heaven only knows what else.

      I don’t know all the Bear Stearns principles, or I’d add them to the list.
      Ditto the heads of major banks, Countrywide, and other GOP donors who can’t be allowed to live like the rest of us Great Unwashed.
      No doubt a few mega-wealthy Wall Streeters already have their attorneys doing the early work for pardons involving mortgage fraud, money laundering, and tax evasion.

      Okay, that’s my short list.
      I’m sure that I’ll think up more names by next month.

      But I’m increasingly convinced that if these people aren’t made accountable and sent to prison, then the US will listlessly devolve into a slightly wealthier version of Mexico or the Carribean, ruled by drug lords and criminals.

      • skdadl says:

        And, being Addington, no doubt he’ll want to represent himself. He probably thinks he’s the most highly qualified.

        Yup. That gave me a chuckle.

        I would add Haynes and Shiffrin. I’d have to go back to look at their cover-ups in detail, but watching each of them once was enough to convince me they should both be in a world of legal trouble.

        And Thomas Hartmann, for politicizing the GTMO trials badly enough that Allred ordered him off Hamdan.

      • Leen says:

        Your list reminds me of John Deans suggestion

        Refocusing the Impeachment Movement on Administration Officials Below the President and Vice-President:
        Why Not Have A Realistic Debate, with Charges that Could Actually Result in Convictions?
        By JOHN W. DEAN
        Friday, Dec. 15, 2006

        # Keep these thugs from recycling back into future administrations

      • PetePierce says:

        This has taken place long ago. DOJ is a criminal enterprise and it and the Bush administration own Congress along with the rest of the Cowed and Compliant government and the cowed and compliant federal judiciary.

        This is a bannana republic without bannana trees and it is that way because the overwhelming majority of the US population, far greater than 99% reads considerablyless than they used to, are lazy, and spend time on air head web sites and watching air head TV. As long as the ignorance is pandemic, this isn’t going to change a scintilla.

  4. MadDog says:

    I’ll add the following:

    Condi “Not Nice!” Rice – Wouldn’t be seemly getting hitched to a felon.

    Stephen “Twinkletoes” Hadley – Kept his mouth shut on all the National Security crimes and besides, he scratches Barney’s ass on command.

    Fred “Mr. Watergate” Fielding – Can’t have mah lawyer joinin’ me in jail, now could ah?

    Laura Belle – As part of mah divorce settlement.

    Ma – Iffen ya only knew.

    Antonin Scalia – Payment due for Florida.

  5. lllphd says:

    sigh. so depressing. have those in our fearless feckless dem leadership considered this possibility of a thorough saturday night massacre resurrection?

    it’s hardly consolation that at least the bastard can’t pardon himself!

  6. alabama says:

    Because it’s a polyhedron of sorts: on Iraq alone, you’ve got a whole prison’s worth of civilians, like Hadley, Carbone, Miller… Then we’d have to add in those contractors, like Halliburton, and maybe Fluor…. In another direction, you have the whole Bush family, starting with brother Neil….anyone who ever exchanged e-mails with Rove on any subject whatsoever would be exposed….Nor is the court system itself in the clear: Thief Justice Scalia must have something to worry about, or he wouldn’t keep repeating that silly mantra, “Get over it!”…

    (Bush also has to worry about the library abuilding at SMU, whose every slip of paper could become a piece of incriminating evidence…A presidential library, where the only holding is a replica of the Oval Office?)

    And now that I’ve started to picture Bush fleeing from cave to cave in Tora Bora (after nightfall), I think it’s time for a break…

    • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

      Oh, definitely.
      Excellent point. AND at least one is a Bush Pioneer; another class of people that can’t be permitted to go to jail.

  7. FrankProbst says:

    Hmm. Perhaps it’s just me, but I don’t think the real danger to these folks is prosecution in a US court. I think their biggest risk is being prosecuted for war crimes in some other country. And a pardon will do nothing for them there.

    • PetePierce says:

      Their biggest risk is being shot in the head in a foreign country and Jean Mayer covered this topic in her Book TV talk.

  8. PetePierce says:

    Who won’t Bush pardon?

    Governor Siegelman if the Eleventeenth Circuit don’t let him skate after what the superficial press doesn’t understand has already been a horrendous ordeal for Siegelman.

    Who will Bush pre-emptively pardon? I’ve never heard of the term pre-emptive pardon until Victgoria Shitferbrains Toensig pitched it to the New York Times who is becoming incraseingly shit fer brains in general, and in particular for soliciting a quote from the moronic Toensig. Toensig and Rubenstein submitted editorials to the Murdock Street Journal on the trial of one Lou the Libby and although it was never noticed much by the progressoblogosphereistas the ole WSJ did not have one single article on Scootsie’s trial or appeal period.

    Brad the Schlozster Schlozman will be pardoned.

    Scootsie the Libby definitely will be pardoned as part of Bush’s Flip the Bird to the American People (aka Arod-Madonanistas) tour

    Funeral Director and Political Metaphysicist Tom Delay will get a Toensig Pre-Emptive Pardon

    You ask, but isn’t Delay one of the few people to die before being brought to trial? Wouldn’t it be insane for a pretrial appellate issue to be delayed nearly 3 years and counting? You thought you’d seen foreplay but you ain’t never seen no foreplay as robust as the pretrial foreplay in the Delay trial. As many have said, when in Texas, it’s always done, well, in a writ large way to put it politely.

    Ah but no. Currently Delay’s trial is still being held up or Tom Delay’s Prosecution is still a simmerin’ Deep in the Heart er Sigmoid Colon of Texas

    You Ain’t Seen No Delay like the Tom DeLay Delay

    Still stuck for a long time in the Texas so called Third Circuit Court of Appeals ( that’s the one in Texas not the Third Circuit who stupidly yesterday declined to stop the ciruclation of Dog Fight Tapes noting brightly that Dog Fighting is not child molestation at least in their eyes. That opinion was right up their with Iran getting ready to stone 6 women for adultery buring them up to their neck in cement and then having people throw pieces of concrete or stone until they cause a contracoup epidural hematoma.

    Back to DeLay’s Delay the charges that are still viable are money laundering and conspiracy to commit money laundering.

    Pre-Emptive Pardons to

    Stephen Payne

    Randy Schuenemann ((McCain’s foreign policy advisor)

    Randy Schueneman

    Leura Garrett Canary

    Alice Martin

  9. prostratedragon says:

    It’ll be a short list, to try to sustain the pretense that the whole thing’s a nothingburger, to use a word that the next person who says it to me risks getting decked for.

    Everything from the depth of perversion of DOJ to statutes of limitations to omertà (voluntary, etc.) will be relied on for the rest.

    Notably, Yoo and Gonzales might be too terrified of Addington to require pardoning.

    • PetePierce says:

      They avoid prosecution because Mukasey the pussy won’t prosecute them. A lot of prosecuted people are trying to spend time with their families and doing everything they can to survive who don’t have Bush administration indemnity.

      • stryder says:

        Whan you think of complicity it’s easy to understand why mumbles was so concerned this morning.
        Maybe it would be easier to think in terms of scapegoats rather than pardons

  10. lizard says:

    I, George W. Bush do hereby confer upon any person charged with a crime of any nature while in the employ of my administration, directly or through contract, a complete pardon.

  11. lizard says:

    Remember whilst you wager, the pardon power is UNFETTERED. He can pardon any crime, by any person. There is even almost-relevant history, albeit in english case law rather than american, for large-scale blanket amnesties AND pardons. He will not limit it to person A or person B. He will pardon an entire category of people for an entire category of crimes.

    • quake says:

      It would theoretically be possible to amend the Constitution to revoke all presidental pardons issued between date X and date Y, or sonme subset therof, This wouldn’t be easy to do, as it requires a 2/3 vote of both Houses plus ratification by 3/4 of the states, but is possible. There would have to be a tremendous groundwell of publc support, but if Bush issued a large scale blanket amnesty for his cronies it could conceivably happen.

  12. MrSweepstakes says:

    Might Mikey Vick get some love?

    (probly not…fight a coupla dogs an the country hates yer guts 4-eva!)

    I’m guessing you think The Penguin is so well insulated that he doesn’t need a pre-pardon-pardon to be on the list, but it wouldn’t hurt…yaknow, just to be safe.

  13. Mauimom says:

    Marcy, this is not complete without a TIMELINE of the pardons — i.e., when they will occur and in what order.

  14. ApacheTrout says:

    I’d like to add:

    Eric Prince, of Blackwater, so that Bush can eliminate his fear of Congress discovering how DOD contracts were laundered to Republican congressional and party coffers.

    Jack Abramoff, because although you’ve duly noted he’s a snitch, I’m pretty confident that he’s not revealed all that he knows (remember, McCain is sitting on hundreds of thousands of pages related to Abramoff), which would truly land quite a few Republicant operatives behind the bars.

    Roger Stone, for helping sic the Bush DOJ on Eliot Spitzer. I suspect that Stone has directly used information gleaned from the illegal wiretapping program to take down Spitzer and other political opponents.

    Gale Norton, for her part in destroying, through administrative fiat, environmental regulations to slow down or prohibit energy development of the American West.

    Stephen Johnson, for allowing the White House to illegally intercede on California’s clean air rules.

    • Rayne says:

      Ditto what ApacheTrout said.

      Erik Prince and all officers or employees or contractors of Blackwater will be pardoned.

      BW doesn’t seem to be very worried at all about any of its past actions, has made very little adjustment to its activities save for changing its business model now that it can’t rely on getting security contracts like it once did.

      Frankly, the list might be shorter to ask, whom will Bush NOT pardon?

  15. prostratedragon says:

    Somewhat OT from earlier Monday, but maybe useful data as we wonder whether anyone involved in the Shitpile will get some pardon-u-al healing:

    Is Bank of A giving Mikey the Mook a test run? Signalling to Brush just how busy his December pardon rush is going to be? What? This one has ‘em reeling in the finance blogs:

    We have received a lot of questions about Countrywide’s public debt. All I can say at this point is we don’t intend to guarantee the public debt but we understand the ramification of not paying. We will keep you informed as we continue to integrate the country wide [sic] transaction.

    How ’bout that line in bold for quote of the year? Got any parallels?

  16. BayStateLibrul says:

    Bushie will pardon Roger Clemens, only on a quid pro quo, that George
    will become the next Commish of Beisbol….

  17. GeorgeSimian says:

    I’d add Mukasey too. There’s also a number of Bushies inserted into the Iraq war who made big money for a lot of Bushie companies, like Blackwater and Halliburton, so I would expect some pardons in there, if any of them are being investigated, which I haven’t heard of.

    Pardoning is only half of the issue. Don’t forget that Bush will initiate a big burn of all the papers, emails, contracts, documents, communications, etc. that have so far, and potentially may be subpoenaed by anyone.

    • BayStateLibrul says:

      Yeah. Good point. The Bonfire of the Vanities began about 9 months ago in the VP’s office…

    • quake says:

      Remember the lessons of Watergate. It was the coverup that got Nixon in trouble, not the crime. Remember, Bush can be impeached after he leaves office, not just while he is in office. If convicted he would be barred from all future offices and would be subject to criminal prosecution.

  18. WilliamOckham says:

    I’m going to stake out an extreme position. Bush won’t pardon himself, Cheney, or any of his political appointees. Not Rove, not Gonzalez, not Addington. Nobody.

    Here’s why. He doesn’t have any fear that any of them will be prosecuted and he wants to preserve his legacy.

    • Peterr says:

      That didn’t stop Daddy Bush from pardoning the Iran-Contra crew on his way out the door.

      In fact, Dubya looks back at his father’s acts as president, that one is probably at the top of the “Most Admired Decisions” list.

      Put me down for EWs list, plus Goodling and Sampson (the links between WH and DOJ) and without Clemons. Yes, Dubya’s a baseball guy, but I suspect there’s a sense of “stick it to the Yankees” about him. (No evidence for that, mind you, just a WAG.)

      • dakine01 says:

        I disagree Peterr. My guess is that Little Boots probably looks on the pardons as his father wimping out once again. I tend to agree that it will be a very limited number of pardons issued and maybe not more than Scooter and Bandar.

        Or I might be a.n id10t

      • emptywheel says:

        Nuts, I forgot about Sampson–I’ll add him to mine, along with Mike Elston. I think Monica has her immunity already, so she’s fine. It’s nice to have good lawyers, huh?

    • karnak12 says:

      I agree. It’s gonna be “Now now, let’s have no recriminations. Let’s put this all behind us and move on.”

      A joint statement to the press sometime after Jan 20th 2009 by Obama, Pelosi, and Reid.

      • Leen says:

        This bi partisan “let’s move on” hogwash is such bullshit. Many of our Reps seem to be satisfied with American zombies driving around semi comatose consuming madly. Many of our Reps do not want Americans filled with the spirit of life asking questions about how our nation is tripping over one million dead Iraqi people, 4000 dead American soldiers, tens of thousands of injured, and 4 million Iraqi refugees.

        No No No..go back to consuming folks, stay asleep in your bubble.

        George Carlin: “It’s Called the American Dream Because You Have To Be Asleep to Believe It”

  19. RevDeb says:

    I think that W will only pardon those who can implicate him in a crime. He has no tendency to show mercy to anyone—a point that Charlie left out of his article in the NYT.

    He will be focused on keeping his own *ss out of jail. No more, no less. All of the rest of them can fry as far as he’s concerned.

    that would be my guess. As for who and numbers . . . that will be for a later edition of Pardon Watch.

    Compassionate Conservative, my *aa.

    • emptywheel says:

      That was kind of my logic–with three exceptions: for oil companies, for Clemons, and for Bandar (which is self-protection of the family brand, anyway, because I guarantee you the BAE bribes connect up to Poppy’s early covert fun in some way).

      • RevDeb says:

        then I think Cheney and Addington would be on the list because I’m sure they’ve been keeping a long inventory and paper trail of just W signed off on when they asked him to. No way either of them would take a fall for W.

        And yes, I know that they are both smug s.o.b.s and think they’re too smart to be caught, but they are smart enough to have an insurance policy ready and W. is that ticket.


  20. JimWhite says:

    C’mon Marcy, you’ve already set the framework for the real answer here. Bush won’t need to pardon anyone. They all have absolute immunity. I think he’ll have Fielding explain that to us sometime in the first half of September. Pardons are just so 1974.

    My question is how many of us DFH’s will be declared illegal enemy combatants and disappeared between now and the election. I think the total will be between 100 and 200.

    • Leen says:

      They all have “absolute immunity”. Growing up in the Catholic church I had problems with the Pope’s “omnipotence”.
      This sounds like some vaccination shot for a sexually transmitted disease. Maintaining the pre-emptive, unilateral “omnipotence” of the executive branch is “hard work”.

  21. presquevu says:

    I’m pretty sure he’s going to pardon his favorite philosopher, Jesus of Nazareth, for those wrongheaded things he was convicted of.

  22. RacyMind9 says:

    If W. commuted Libby’s sentence so readily, I see no way we get through Jan. 2009 without pardons for political appointees. At a minimum, Rove gets the pardon, and I am sure Karl has the vise ready to turn if the pardon does not come through. Other pardons will issue from Rove’s tentacles… I refuse to believe he isn’t practically selling paper with W’s grace on them.

  23. Leen says:


    On the Diane Rehm show this morning. Great place to pose questions and answers for the public that they will otherwise not hear.

    10:00Guantanamo Prosecutions

    The first military trial of a terrorism suspect at Guantanamo began Monday and the judge threw out some evidence against Osama bin Laden’s former driver, Salim Hamdan, that had been collected through harsh interrogation techniques. Also Monday, Attorney General Michael Mukasey asked Congress to legislate how detainees may challenge their detentions in light of a recent Supreme Court ruling granting that right. A look at how a series of expected terrorism prosecutions are likely to proceed.

    Josh White, reporter, “The Washington Post”

    Col. Morris Davis, former chief Guantanamo prosecutor (2005-2007)

    Charles Stimson, senior legal fellow at the Heritage Foundation’s Center for Legal and Judicial Studies; former deputy assistant defense secretary for detainee affairs

    Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies

    Yesterday on NPR’s Talk of the Nation Neil Conan did a show on Guantanamo. He actually asked if Gitmo ever gets any “fresh” detainees or “new imports”? It was as if they were discussing farm produce.

    He and his guest were laughing a great deal during the show. I found it disturbing.

  24. foothillsmike says:

    As I read the constitution pardons can be granted for “offenses” the granting of a pardon has implicit in it guilt for that offense. Can guilt be confered without benefit of a trial?

  25. Strategerie says:

    Okay, here’s a question dumber than a box of hair. I thought the reason why Libby was not pardoned was because he would then be available for testimony and could not take the Fifth.

    Is this still true?

  26. chaboard says:

    I think Bush will pardon himself. Seriously.

    It also wouldn’t surprise me if he tried issuing *secret* (classified, even?) blanket pardons.

    I do think anyone and everyone receiving a pardon should be hauled in front of Congress and subjected to days on end of grilling under oath. Make them either come clean or put themselves in jeopardy again that their newly-minted pardons won’t cover.

    And Obama should make it very clear that the Executive branch will retract and denounce all phony claims of executive privilege.

    • Loo Hoo. says:

      Na. He’ll pardon anyone who can testify about Bush doing something impeachable. What about Air Force folks?

  27. Adie says:

    Can he pardon his own sorry self?

    Because, after all, he is the king.

    Surely the face-shooter deserves a pass also.

    Nobility rules.

    • Badwater says:

      There is nothing in the Constitution to prevent the Preznit from pardoning himself “except in cases of impeachment”. Impeachment, of course, remains “off the table”.

  28. Redshift says:

    Well, I’ll stake out one extreme of the betting pool and say he’ll pardon no prominent figures, because he’s an asshole who doesn’t care about anyone but himself, and doesn’t believe anyone will actually prosecute him, no matter how many lower-level figures they get.

    And as for his legacy, he’s already reduced to being certain history will judge him a great man after he’s dead, and nothing before that will sway his certainty.

    • Knut says:

      I agree. He won’t pardon unless the election is an Obama blow-out, and the people who have something on him have so much to lose they will put the screws to him. At that point it’s anybody’s guess, because people will connect thedots.

      Plus, it is by no means certain that blanket pardon’s will stand the court test. In particular, it is hard to see how they could stand if the acts being pardoned (pissing on the White House carpet and stuff like that)l, aren’t brought forward in defence of the pardon. At that point all hell breaks loose.

      I don’t think Obama is going to let the thugs get away with things this time. He’s learned from the Clinton experience that the only way to deal with these vipers is to drive a cross through their evil heart.

      • quake says:

        Right, Just like he said he’d vote against retrospective telcom immunity. The man with the iron backbone. Not.

  29. Adie says:

    Did anyone snag A$$croft?

    Greenspain? & da missus (my goodness she was miffed that Barack assembled his very own staff to document his recent trip, & left the MSM to twiddle their thumbs at home. The NERVE! heh)


    DeLayd & his whole staff from 2000 election debacle.

    Faux nooze, for all its political outreach programs.

  30. Badwater says:

    The only logic the Decider needs is that he “decided” to pardon everyone on Cheney’s list.

  31. mack says:

    Anyone and everyone from the Administration who has lied in sworn testimony to Congress.
    That would be, by my estimation, anyone or everyone from the Administration who has provided sworn testimony to Congress

  32. Adie says:

    So… is faceshooter making up the list having the list made up? Junior’s too bizzy scheduling his biking and pretzel-chomping and -um- meditating? contemplating his navel? yelling “why ME!” at the walls?

  33. Adie says:

    One thing that might cut to the chase: he might want to append Hugh’s List, just in case he fergot anyone.

  34. GregB says:

    But at least the Bushies didn’t steal letters off of computers and leave porn bombs.

    -Dean Broder

    • Adie says:

      yesss. isn’t it amazing how often ones mind turns to those missing w’s?!

      who knew how prophetic….

      ogawd. how long till jan. 20? s-i-g-h…

  35. Adie says:

    Hi demi.

    I’ve been watching that series on Disc. Channel “Deadliest Catch”.

    Somehow, my brain all too easily drifts to imagining them sorting all these thugs into “keepers” and “losers” to dump back in the stormy seas.

    • demi says:

      Hey. Reading your previous comment, My mind was drifting to the looming task of cleaning out my clothes closet. Every so often, I go in there and pull out all the stupid stuff in there that I haven’t worn in ages. Then, I pass it on to someone else. One man’s trash, etc. But, yeah, when there are lying, cheating s o bs whose evil harms many others, burn ‘em. Or something.

  36. wethepeopleismarxnow says:

    Fox news and the RW radio ranters.

    Since when is “promoting tyranny” free speech?

  37. jayt says:

    I’m going with the commenter above who posits blanket pardons for, say “between January of 2001 and January of 2009, for all persons and companies employed in or by an agency of The Executive Branch, or any other person or company who acted at the express or implied direction of The Executive Branch.” “Oh yeah, and Roger Clemens, from the Great State of Texas.” “And Ken Lay, because I’m really sick of all those late-night whiney phone calls about how lonely he is.” “And Mom and Dad.” “And Denny Hastert, just in case that bitch Sibel Edmonds opens her mouth.”

    “And yes, this pardon also includes me, the president of these here United States. Good-bye from the greatest polluter criminal in the world.”

  38. Adie says:

    I think i meant History Channel above (86). whatever.

    Mebbe the history channel would want to join in the pool here as an advertizing gimmick.

    mebbe mrs greenspain would like to join in. might perk her up a bit. she was purty well mortified, bein’ left outta the ops & perks & such of the Obama trip. i almost felt sorry for her, for a second or 2.

  39. Bluetoe2 says:

    If these war criminals are pardoned does that justify vigilante justice? Can they be appreheneded like Eichman and taken to the Hague for their just reward?

    • demi says:

      Speaking of damaged goods, I’m watching the Climate Change hearing on CSPAN and (ew) Larry Craig is asking the panel questions. I have a very hard time watching and listening to him. How does he show up to work, hold his head up after what he did? I have less of a problem with what he did in the stall than the bold, straight face lying to everyone, including his wife I can only assume after the fact.
      When he’s walking the halls at work, does anyone ever want to put a post it on his back that says Wipe Me?

      • Adie says:

        awwww demi. ;->

        can’t ya just imagine him walking down the hall and others parting, sorta like the seas for Charlton Hessian?! ewwwww. don’t touch.


  40. perris says:

    Jose Rodriguez, since the torture portrayed on the torture tapes was ordered by Bush before the relevant opinions were written

    there were no relevant opinions written, torture is illegal no matter what the opinions rendered

  41. BayStateLibrul says:

    I’m going with Emery’s trojan horse. Emery (MacNamee’s lawyer) floated
    Clemen’s pardon during Clemen’s ‘lying sack of shit’ testimony.

    Clemen’s lawyer believes his client is incapable of covering his arse.

    “First of all, Roger is never going to be convicted of anything, and second, he (the president) is never going to do that,” Hardin said. “It is the most irresponsible and unbelievable statement in a long line of irresponsible and unbelievable statements from those guys.
    “I think President Bush has more pressing things on his plate than steroids. That idea had never occurred to us.”

    Pressing things, like taking a Government-paid trip expense to the Olympics.
    Yup. Bush is crazy, irresponsible and unbelievable. My bet is on Emery.

    • Bluetoe2 says:

      No, but he’s growing his finger and toenails. The beard is next. He’s been seen wearing empty Kleenex boxes on his feet.

      • Adie says:

        wow. that’s quite an image ya got there. lol.

        Wonder whut DarkBlack could do with it. HINT HINT! ;->

  42. demi says:

    It might be a fun game to play what post it note would you slap on which political leader’s back (I’m using that term loosely, of course.)

  43. getplaning says:

    Bush will resign one month before his term ends. Whoever succeeds him, (Condi or Dick) will grant him a blanket pardon. I wouldn’t put it past them.

  44. JoeBourgeois says:

    Cheney worried about the indignity of being pardoned by the likes of Bush?

    I don’t think he’s that concerned about anything so separated from the bottom line, unless he thinks he can get off through the sheer power of his fuckoffness.

  45. PetePierce says:

    As an example of US stupidity, note that MSNBC and CNN have become dominated with the VP choice of an idiot that won’t come close to being President whose campaign is riddled with exactly the kind of people who have dominated the Bush administration on a channel where the wife of one of the chief architects of the mortgage loan/housing/banking crises never acknowledges her husband’s role in allowing it to happen.–that’d be Mrs. Al Greenspan and Mr. Andrea Mitchell.

  46. SparklestheIguana says:

    My initial list (may add some):

    Bob Kjellander

    Marion Jones: NEIN!
    Bonds, Clemens: NEIN!
    Michael Milken: NEIN!
    John Walker Lindh: close call, but NEIN!

  47. wethepeopleismarxnow says:

    So what would a silent coup d’etat look like anyway?

    Only takes a gang of 40 men.

    1 Prez to commit high crimes.

    34 Senators to deny impeachment conviction of those crimes.

    5 Justices to declare those crimes constitutional.

    The Gang Of 40

    We’re at 39 presently I think.

    • wethepeopleismarxnow says:

      Notice how the House of Representatives is completely irrelevant in this equation.

  48. SonomaRus says:

    Late to the party but . . . .

    I remember a discussion in the Nixon era of whether or not the President could pardon himself. Nixon reigned rather than test that theory. Bush has no souls so he won’t hesitate to pardon himself.

    I have a question for the legal beagles: Does a crime have to be committed AND the perp convicted before a pardon can be given?


  49. wigwam says:

    Nuremberg defense: “I was just following orders.”

    Good-faith defense: “I was acting on advice of counsel.”

    E.g., “I was acting on advice of John Yoo, when I crushed that child’s testicles in good faith.”

  50. bigbrother says:

    Its about the money trail Securities and Exchange Coommission Christopher Cox is the bag man for the Bush administration. He deregulated the regulation that prevent market fraud and opened the flood gate of phoney Trillion paper secured by wothless upside down mortgages, hedge funds and penny stocks see FOIA
    Mr Cox in conspiracy with Attorney General Gonzales open the vaults of wall street to the grandaddy of all swindles. Bushco knows how pissed all those burned are. The insider trading by the “Family” of Bush crony capitalist should be a long list of obfuscators. It really wasn’t a planned scam? Flash back to “spineless” Niel Bush and Silverado S&L and the Resolution Trust bailout of them. So many senior are such easy mark for a “dream investment” that regulation are tho only thing that will protect them. Trillions in swindles in the investment marjets and trillions in “defense/security” waste.
    Marcy please list those complicit as they will get a reward from the Bush coporate cartel.
    And Greenspan/Bernanke for the gift of public funds to wall steet investor like Bear Stearns. Help me on this if I am imagining the loss of 22% of the total markets worth? That is the biggest alltime score and the Bush legacy.

  51. wigwam says:

    Per John Dean, Kieth Olbermann’s pick for smartest man in the world, at Findlaw:

    While no president has ever pardoned himself, the law supports the president’s authority to do so. Scholarly inquiry into the subject was provoked first by fear that Richard Nixon would pardon himself to escape Watergate; later by thought that George H. W. Bush would do so because of the Iran-Contra grand jury; and most recently by concern about Bill Clinton’s problem of a possible post-Presidency indictment and trial. And while a few scholars have concluded that the president cannot pardon himself, many more believe that he can.

    As one Member of Congress said during the Clinton impeachment proceedings, “the prevailing opinion is the President can pardon himself.” Thus, should Bill Clinton pardon himself, and should Independent Counsel Ray decide to go to Court to test his presidential power to do so, not only would that court case delay the prospect of resolving any criminal action against the former president quickly, it would also present a case of first impression, with the authority overwhelmingly on the side of the former president.

    The president’s pardon power is set forth in the constitution. Article II, section 2 grants the president “Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.” The text of the constitution, its history, and the placement of the pardon power within the structure of the constitution, all show that there are no limits on this power, other than the exception that prevents the president from pardoning “impeachments.” Accordingly, the Supreme Court has described this presidential power as “plenary.” As one recent commentator summed it up, short of a constitutional amendment, there is absolutely nothing “to prevent any president from pardoning himself.”

    So, the ultimate side bet is whether or not Bush will (attempt to) pardon himself and whether SCOTUS would uphold such a pardon.

  52. semiot says:

    My scenario:

    Bush pardons Cheney and a whole bunch of others – everybody in sight. You see, I don’t think any of these people gives a rats ass about what some people will make of their being pardoned – just no jail time or fines, thank you very much.

    Then, in a double-twist one-and-a-half gainer with a belly flop, Bush resigns, Cheney takes the oath (long about January 19th), and #44, Shortime Dicky, pardons W and anybody else who might have a problem and might offer Cheney some scratch. And in his pardon statement, President Cheney will invite the rest of the world to, “F*** yourself.”

  53. timbo says:

    I think another poster put it pretty succinctly–who would Cheney pardon is the answer.

    Actually, I believe that Bush is a sadist and won’t pardon many, if any, folks who aren’t part of his retinue. The interesting thing is that we get to find out precisely who that is…and bitch and moan about how stupid the Democrats are for not impeaching any of them. Sigh. Guess fear and loathing really does work as a political tactic when there isn’t a single politician with enough sense to clear the stables.

  54. SparklestheIguana says:

    I would like to add to my list above.

    Bush will pardon another Thanksgiving Turkey.

  55. DeadLast says:

    1) Radovan Karadzic
    2) Pol Pot
    3) Henry Kissinger
    4) Adolf Hitler
    5) Atilla the Hun

    In otherwords, Bush’s roll models.

    Oh, and one more…bin Laden

  56. JerryB says:

    Greetings all. I did’nt have time to read all the posts so if someone has already said this, I apologise.

    I think the really important pardons will be of people we don’t even know about yet. Those down in the bowels of this cartel,uh junta, uh administration that carried out these crimes.

  57. liberAL says:

    But if all of these people are pardoned doesn’t that mean they are guilty of something? Can you just pardon anyone even if they haven’t done anything. We know all of the above have done things that warrant being hauled off to jail but they haven’t admitted to anything.

  58. nikto says:

    He’ll pardon JOE SCARBOROUGH, just before some new evidence comes in on
    the weird death of Laurie Klausutis in his congressional
    office in the late 90s.

    Right around the same time, it’s quite odd how Gary Condit
    got all the news coverage, huh?