Did Karl Rove Chat to Saakashvili about South Ossetia Too?

The White House has started to panic over a July 9 meeting between Condi Rice and Mikheil Saakashvili, desperate to suggest they didn’t encourage Georgia’s crack-down in South Ossetia. Given that panic, I wonder whether Karl Rove had any similar chats with Saakashvili when they were in Yalta together just days later?

Now, there’s been a lot of justified chatter about the role of Randy Scheunemann, who appears to be advising the Republic of Georgia at the same time as he provides campaign advice to John McCain.

Sen. John McCain’s top foreign policy adviser prepped his boss for an April 17 phone call with the president of Georgia and then helped the presumptive Republican presidential nominee prepare a strong statement of support for the fledgling republic.

The day of the call, a lobbying firm partly owned by the adviser, Randy Scheunemann, signed a $200,000 contract to continue providing strategic advice to the Georgian government in Washington.

Given the way McCain has boasted of his frequent calls to Saakashvili in attempts to reclaim the mantle of the best international leader, it raises questions of whether the Administration’s "see no evil" approach to Georgia was part of a deliberate campaign strategy.

Particularly when you consider the fact that Karl Rove may have met with Saakashvili just days after the July 9 private dinner between Condi and Saakashvili that the White House, State, and DOD are now panicking about. Rove was in the neighborhood, in Yalta, at a conference with Saakashvili three days after the meeting (h/t brendanx).

09:30 – 11:00Plenary session: Elections in Russia and the USA: impact on Ukraine and Europe

What will be the foreign policy of the new Russian and American leadership over the coming years? How will it impact their relationship with the European Union and Ukraine, and EU’s further enlargement?

Moderator: Richard Haass
Panel:
Sergey Glaziev, Director, Institute for New Economy, member of the 1st, 3rd and 4th Russian State Duma
Kostyantyn Gryshchenko, Ambassador to the Russian Federation and First Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine

Alexander Rahr, Programme Director, German Council on Foreign Relations, member of the Board of YES
Karl Rove, Former Deputy Chief of Staff to George W. Bush and Chief Strategist for Bush’s Presidential Campaigns
Bob Shrum, political consultant and
Senior Fellow, Wagner Graduate School of Public Service, New York University

I mean, given that Rove was talking about the upcoming election as Saakashvili was walking in the room, it sure does make you wonder whether Rove said anything to Saakashvili about how a firmer hand in South Ossetia might help Georgia ensure its strong relationship with the US going forward. (And who would look to Bob Shrum, whose only value is in making Mark Penn look like slightly less of an electoral failure, to comment on US politics?)

I’ll say this: the Administration is even more desperate to push back against claims that they encouraged Georgia’s initial crackdown than you’d think they would be (compare, for example, their response to claims we gave Israel the go-ahead to invade Lebanon in 2006 or bomb Syria in 2007, and their response to claims that we encouraged Maliki to crack down on Basra). There’s something going on–and given Karl Rove’s presence close to the scene of the crime, I’ve got my suspicions.

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  1. Arbusto says:

    Christ; it’s bad enough what Rove accomplished in destroying our Republic, now he’s going international to destroy other republics with his demagoguery! Of course it says a lot about those folk who think he has something worth acting on.

  2. brendanx says:

    You forgot to remind everyone of the context of Rove’s visit to Yalta!

    Forgive me for reposting this question, but it seems relevant in light of the Ukrainian locale of this meeting:

    In the first day of coverage the Russians accused the Ukraine of some involvement in Georgia. Does anyone remember the details of that?

    Ukraine is contantly mentioned by our pundits as being next in Russia’s sights. I’m curious of whether there is any genuine provocation.

  3. brendanx says:

    When the Obama campaign mentioned Scheunemann the first day, it really touched a nerve. McCain retorted that Obama and the Kremlin were reading off the same page, supported by Politico.

  4. SparklestheIguana says:

    I feel like I need to take a shower every time Bob Shrum is mentioned. (I’d say the same about Rove except it’s a given.) Maybe they couldn’t get Mary Matalin.

  5. brendanx says:

    emptywheel:

    Among my questions for McCain in the earlier thread: when have you most recently spoken with Saakashvili, and about what (McCain boasted yesterday of having had Saakashvili, whose name he cannot pronounce, as a friend for years, and of being in regular touch with him, and his visits to Georgia go back to 1997 (link)).

  6. brendanx says:

    Here is the substance, what little there is, of that Russian accusation of Ukrainian involvement:

    MOSCOW, Aug 9 (Reuters) – Russia accused Ukraine on Saturday of encouraging Georgia to carry out “ethnic cleansing” in the separatist region of South Ossetia by providing arms, the Russian Foreign Ministry said.

    “The Ukrainian government, which has been enthusiastically arming Georgian troops from top to bottom, was in fact encouraging Georgia to attack and carry out ethnic cleansing in South Ossetia,” the ministry said in a statement on its website http://www.mid.ru.

    It added that ex-Soviet Ukraine had “no moral right to teach others how to do things.” (Reporting by Tanya Ustinova, writing by Amie Ferris-Rotman)

    • brendanx says:

      oboblomov adds this:

      Are you looking for something like this?

      At the same time the Russian air force started to bomb Georgian air fields. At least four Georgian planes were destroyed on the ground. Two Russian planes were shot down by SA-5 anti air missiles which Georgia was not known to have. These weapons were possibly manned by Ukrainian mercenaries.

  7. darms says:

    Don’t forget that Bush 1 did the same damn thing back in 90 when he gave Saddam the ‘go-ahead’ to invade Kuwait. Like father, like son.

  8. CanuckStuckinMuck says:

    EW! amazing as always.
    In the first place, WTF is Rove–domestic election expert–doing at a conference regarding the relations of European countries with one another??????

  9. Redshift says:

    Wasn’t there a story a couple of months ago that Shrum was advising Gordon Brown? I’m guessing that since Democrats here wised up to his election-losing ways, he had to “retire” and now sends around resumes in Europe that list all the big names he worked for, but nothing about how successful he was.

    One hopes Europeans may be smart enough to figure it out the first time a campaign crashes and burns, instead of allowing him an entire second career.

    • SparklestheIguana says:

      Don’t know. I did notice that Tony Blair was the keynote speaker at the Yalta conference.

  10. bmaz says:

    And then there is this:

    Weeks before bombs started falling on Georgia, a security researcher in suburban Massachusetts was watching an attack against the country in cyberspace.

    Jose Nazario of Arbor Networks in Lexington noticed a stream of data directed at Georgian government sites containing the message: “win+love+in+Rusia.” …

    Researchers at Shadowserver, a volunteer group that tracks malicious network activity, reported that the Web site of the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili, had been rendered inoperable for 24 hours by multiple D.D.O.S. attacks. They said the command and control server that directed the attack was based in the United States and had come online several weeks before it began the assault.

    As it turns out, the July attack may have been a dress rehearsal for an all-out cyberwar once the shooting started between Georgia and Russia. According to Internet technical experts, it was the first time a known cyberattack had coincided with a shooting war. …

    • Hmmm says:

      What curious timing. Air Force Halts Cyber Command Program:

      After months touting its intention to be the front line for defending cyberspace, the Air Force has suspended plans to establish its much hyped Cyber Command program, according to Nextgov.
      The program is being halted until new senior Air Force leaders have time to review it and determine a focus and direction.

      • Rickbrew9x says:

        Civilians are better at both Hacking and computer security than the military is. The skill set and cultures are incompatible.

        Then the kinds of people who go into the military and stay long enough to become experts are easily hired away at much higher salaries once they get to be good at the job.

        The problem with hiring civilians as computer expert for the military is that they tend to quit and bug out when bullets start flying.

        As I say, incompatible culture and skill sets.

    • sailmaker says:

      Jeez. That is unfortunately so much more believable than this.

      We told them they had to keep their unilateral cease-fire,” the official said. “We said, ‘Be smart about this, don’t go in and don’t fall for the Russian provocation. Do not do this.’ ”

      Around the same time, members of the Georgia army unit assigned to a training program under American advisers did not show up for the day’s exercises. In retrospect, American officials said, it is obvious that they had been ordered to mobilize for the mission in South Ossetia by their commanders.

      “This caught us totally by surprise,” said one military officer who tracks events in the region, including the American-Georgian training effort. “It really knocked us off our chairs.”

      I’ve been thinking that this whole war thing could not have been unanticipated, given that we bug everyone. So we wanted this war, for a reason as yet to be determined.

    • Rickbrew9x says:

      Russia was previously (in 2007) accused of conducting cyberwar against Estonia. What’s more important is the fact that with all the warnings the Bush administration supposedly gave to the Georgian high command, how did the Russians mass their troops unobserved and catch the Georgians in the trap they had set? Where were American surveillance satellites? The warnings were there!

      Cyberwar against Georgia isn’t gong to be very effective because Georgia really isn’t on line. (74th down in connectivity.) Georgia doesn’t depend on the Internet as we do. But the NY Times article you report from points out that the cyberwar started in June. That suggests that it was part of the earlier Russian Psywar operations to keep the Georgian high command off balance and make them feel threatened.

      I’m more interested in the fact that there is only a single route from North Ossetia to South Ossetia that runs through a tunnel in the mountains, while South and east of Tskhinvali (towards Tbilisi) is an open plain that is good tank country. The Russians have been egging the Georgians to attack Tskhinvali for months, and when the Georgians did so, they were betting that they could bottle the Russian army up in that tunnel or along that mountain route and take control of South Ossetia before the Russians could get coiled and ready to attack.

      It didn’t work. The Russians were ready for the Georgian attack (the one they were egging the Georgia high command to conduct), and my bet is the Russians already had key elements of their armor and troops south of the mountains. The Russians were trying to get the Georgians to attack South Ossetia in order to justify the Russian attack. The Russians set a trap and the Georgians walked into it.

      But why was the US not using satellite surveillance to watch for the Russian troops and armor gathering to attack? Why didn’t the US spot the Russian troops gathering and warn the Georgians off??

      The warnings that the Russians were trying to get the Georgians to attack were clear. The purpose of that trap (including the cyberwar attacks) was known. Supposedly the American government was warning the Georgian high command to resist attacking.

      This was a major failure of American Intelligence and of the US support of the Georgian government. We should have known that the Russians had set a trap for the Georgians and warned them off. I can’t believe that the Georgians would have attacked South Ossetia if they were shown surveillance photos of the Russian troops, armor and artillery sitting there waiting for them.

      Cheney/Bush are directly responsible for the combat in Georgia.

      Congress should hold hearings on this failure.

    • PetePierce says:

      The article goes on to say:

      Over the weekend a number of American computer security researchers tracking malicious programs known as botnets, which were blasting streams of useless data at Georgian computers, said they saw clear evidence of a shadowy St. Petersburg-based criminal gang known as the Russian Business Network, or R.B.N.

      “The attackers are using the same tools and the same attack commands that have been used by the R.B.N. and in some cases the attacks are being launched from computers they are known to control,” said Don Jackson, director of threat intelligence for SecureWorks, a computer security firm based in Atlanta.

      • sailmaker says:

        Yep, in rereading the article, it seems that there was a set of cyber attacks, and they don’t really know who did them. Could be someone inside the U.S., could be the Russians (who say it was not them), could be the Russian mob, could be individuals, and an Israeli computer firm says, “Jumping to conclusions is premature”.

    • MarkH says:

      They sent us Christopher Hichens …. seems only fair that we send them Shrum, doncha think?

      LOL

      Hey, Hitchens is entertaining whether drunk or drunker.
      Shrum is just irritating.

  11. wigwam says:

    So, let me get this straight. The top foreign policy advisor for the presumptive Republican presidential nominee is an agent of a foreign government that wants to go to war with Russia, and the entire Village thinks that’s a good idea. Hmmmmm. Curious.

  12. bobschacht says:

    I guess whenever Republicans are in trouble for screwing up, they foment a war somewhere in the hope that everyone will forget about the screw-up, and line up to support the Commander Guy.

    I hope by now that tactic is wearing a little thin.

    Bob in HI

  13. FrankProbst says:

    Hmmm. Rove certainly MIGHT have been involved, but there’s pretty clear evidence that Rice and Team McCain WERE involved, so I think they should take their lumps first. I think it’s going to be quite interesting when the increasingly delusional Saakashvili realizes that the emperor has no clothes on.

    • RevBev says:

      That’s an interesting consideration. I can’t decide whether to say because we’ve known it all along or some of us have still not recognized that truth. Both are true, I guess. Yep, No clothes.

  14. bmaz says:

    And then there is this. Going on right in EW’s backyard. Does EW or Rayne tell us? Nooo. Hear it from TPM

    McCain Dispatching Delegation To Georgia

    At a news conference in Michigan this afternoon, John McCain ratcheted up his rhetoric on the Georgia-Russia conflict, saying his colleagues Lindsey Graham and Joe Lieberman would be traveling to Georgia “as soon as possible”.

    • Prairie Sunshine says:

      Commented at my homeblog on the irony of McCain doth-protesting too much about “politization” when questions were posed about Obama camp’s statements and then he announces his campaign butt-boys would be going to Georgia…but as official members of the Armed Services Committee, of course. And he got a dig in about Dems…while neglecting to mention any others on his side of the aisle going.

      Hmmmm, and why does Mc”I am in charge”Haig presume leadership of Armed Services and assign his campaign teamers. Wouldn’t this situation be the provenance of Biden’s Foreign Relations Committee?

    • ratfood says:

      (1) McCain has really slipped his leash on this one. Not that they’ve really been out in front (or competent) with their response but the WH should remind him that the State Department calls the shots and he is still a senator, albeit one that doesn’t bother to show up or vote.

      (2) With so much apparent Republican complicity in this fiasco, it seems like any concrete substantiation of their involvement could be an election clincher. It would be nice if the MSM would do their job but I know I’m pissing up a rope with that one.

      (3) Won’t sending fanny-gerbils Joe and Lindsey abroad put McCain at great risk of experiencing postpartum depression?

    • Scarecrow says:

      Lieberman is going to Georgia to encourage them to send their troops back into the Islamfascist war; Graham is going to help the winning side set of war crimes tribunals.

      Can’t imagine any two Senators who’d be less helpful in Georgia.

      • skdadl says:

        I’m a bit sorry to read this about Graham, on this one single score. I have watched him several times in hearings come down really uncompromisingly against torture — I mean, he just wiped the floor with Hartmann. It obviously disturbs him personally and deeply. He was a JAG, yes?

        I recognize the other problems, but …

      • PetePierce says:

        How are Logan Act violations going to be prosecuted? Who would be prosecuted? And of course who would prosecute them even if there were a Logan violation?

        There are scores of people on both sides of the aisle raking in hundreds of thousands of dollars from foreign governments for lobbying for them including Bill Clinton who both loobies for foreign governments behind the scenes and for his own clients with foreign governments.

        A perfect example is Kazakhstan a Clinton client, and Frank Giustra also a Clinton client:

        After Mining Deal, Financier Donated to Clinton

        Are you contemplating prosecuting Bill Clinton using the Logan Act (18 U.S.C.A. § 953 [1948]), or someone in the McCain camp?

        What part of the Logan Act have they violated to make them the first individual charged with violating it since 1799?

  15. Sixty Something says:

    Well, well, here we have turd blossom, McCain, and Scheunemann, lobbyist for Georgia and McCain’s primary foreign advisor, all trying to be so “presumptuous” as to try to talk with other country’s leaders and conduct foreign policy.

    Seems like 2004, when Kerry was vilified for talking with foreign leaders while running for president. Where’s the outrage?

    Georgie boy must feel soooo left out.

  16. wesgpc says:

    See TPM blog for amazing and very disturging develpments:
    McCain on phone every day with Georgian president (don’t have time to paste in his name)
    Mccain sending ‘non-partisan’ delegation to Georgia (Graham and Lieberman)

    Truly bizarre. Will the GOP try to spin this dangerous nonsense as strength will inspire confidence in the US voter?
    Or will it be a ‘Haig moment’ that reveals McCains very severe problems with common sense.

    In that thing called ‘reality’ these actions seemd very dangerous and unacceptable -you know, innocent lives and national interests at stake…. WHILE the previous prime challange of our century (or was it millenium) radical Islamic extremism continues in TWO other wars, one of which not going well.

    McCain is acting insane. I hope it does not rub off on the Bush administration, which so far has been many undesirable things, but not insane.

  17. brendanx says:

    emptywheel:

    They’re pretty tangential to the matter, but provide a certain context for our “foreign policy” in the region — I have a couple comments about Poland’s diplomatic involvement here in the previous thread — see the one at #21.

  18. dmac says:

    posted this at fdl-

    you need to watch this ew, and everyone else..

    aei panel about georgia today on cspan
    frederick kagan toward the beginning.

    told ecahn, i love these panels, because they love to hear themselves talk uninterrupted and always let something slip out, then let more slip out trying to clean it up.

    here’s the aei thing

    here’s the aei release for the event
    http://www.aei.org/events/even…..detail.asp

    here’s the panel/show aired on cspan, couldn’t find when they are going to re-air it.
    click on the red button

    http://www.c-spanarchives.org/…..d=280436-1

    frederick kagan is toward the beginning.
    replyReply
    dmac

  19. wesgpc says:

    Some one needs to call out these dangerous fools for what they are: dangerous foolish warmongers who are in it for narrow partisan gain.

    If they had their way we would have the following wars
    China
    Afghanistan
    Iraq
    Syria
    Iran
    Russia

    The Paraguay connection is, beside Bush’s land deal, the
    War of the Triple Alliance
    and
    The Grand Chaco wars
    (nice articles on both in Wikipedia)

    This is absolute madness, and should be transparent madness by now.

  20. Twain says:

    What are those 2 idiots, Graham and Lieberman, supposed to do in Georgia except get in the way and annoy the hell out of Putin? This is very dangerous.

      • Twain says:

        Can you imagine the uproar if Obama sent a team over? The neocons would be screaming in the streets.

        • Redshift says:

          That’s how you know that “presumptuous” means “uppity.” Despite the protestations of the pundits, the significant factor in the story wasn’t “acting presidential,” it was accusation that there was something wrong with that.

          • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

            Around 2:50 in the YouTube, an airhead authoritatively frets that, “The Europeans have to deal with this because America (won’t use force).” [my paraphrase] Give that airhead 10 out of 10 possible points on the Pundit Vapidness Scale! Evidently, the role in all this of America’s lost moral authority won’t be mentioned by Villagers.

            bmaz re: Cyberwars — So is this the first Neofeudalist conflict…? I ponder, because the Neofeudalist paradigm more closely fits the convergence of Israelis + neocons + Rove/GOP lobbyists + Georgia… against what, precisely?
            Against Putin’s Gazprom interests and a revitalized, newly proud Russian military…?
            As a means to for neofeudalists to control Caspian Sea oil…?

            It’s confusing.

            I’m with EW:

            There’s something going on–and given Karl Rove’s presence close to he scene of the crime, I’ve got my suspicions.

    • PJEvans says:

      They should have better sense than to go into what is clearly a war zone. At least as long as they’re actually members of Congress. (After they’re kicked out for incompetence at their paid jobs, it’s fine with me.)

      My actual first thought on this I won’t post, as it would get removed by the Lurking Mods.

  21. ThingsComeUndone says:

    I’ll say this: the Administration is even more desperate to push back against claims that they encouraged Georgia’s initial crackdown than you’d think they would be (compare, for example, their response to claims we gave Israel the go-ahead to invade Lebanon in 2006 or bomb Syria in 2007, and their response to claims that we encouraged Maliki to crack down on Basra). There’s something going on–and given Karl Rove’s presence close to he scene of the crime, I’ve got my suspicions.

    Nice tie in even when Bush sends in the Puppets instead of American troops his war plans still fail and the White House must disavow all knowledge.
    Which leaves Condi and Rove in a catch 22 situation if they talked to Georgia about their war then they are responsible for pushing another losing war.
    If they talked to Georgia about the war and Georgia didn’t listen to them…well given both of their past records of failure then they are not major players in American foreign politics, yes I know that is not news.
    But they still thought they were.
    Or Condi and Rove are so far out of the loop they pushed peace (not likely) and others in the White House like Darth just went around them again.
    But given our recent war games with Georgia who desperately wants to be in NATO we can’t seriously claim they went Rogue.

  22. dmac says:

    (seroiusly, the cspan link i gave is the game plan, they spilled.i really hope people watch it, and pay attention to what they left out)

    well, saakashvili quoted mccain in one of his pressers, so, could rove be far away? someone’s directing the information train.

    neo-cons have MILLIONS invested in this. keep that in mind.

    and part of a comment i made earlier-

    they don’t want bush (edit-or condi)anywhere near it–too much money invested to screw it up now, too many years to get here, and it’s too complicated for him, too many lobbyists and legislators involved. hard to keep track.

  23. Sixty Something says:

    I might disagree with you on that Bush admininstration “insane” part. (g)

    Anyone given any thought to the fact that these events might be manipulated by the Bush administration and the McCain campaign to put voters into a “let’s not change horses in mid stream” mode, aka vote Repub?

    Believe me, I believe that the Bush administration is right in there in cahoots, with the McCain campaign. Should it turn out that McCain can lay any claim to settling this dispute, advantage McCain. Should it turn out to be all out war, there are many voters out there who remember the fear of the former Soviet Union, and fear its return to power, hense the changing horses in mid stream mentality.

    • ThingsComeUndone says:

      If your idea is right then older voters who remember the cold war should shift their votes more.
      We probably won’t see accurate polls on this for a week though.
      I hope this issue does not carry on until the election thoughbecause then it could really hurt us.

      • Sixty Something says:

        Let’s hope I’m wrong. As one who voted Repub (for Nixon’s second term), once in their entire life, because I was fed that malarky, I would not like to see others do the same. It’s the only vote I have ever deeply regretted. To this day.

        I do believe that the McCain campaign is totally in sync with the Bush administration with one goal in mind, to elect McCain. Party above Nation could very well be their motto.

  24. cbl2 says:

    omg bmaz, I was typing something below and couldn’t see your whole comment and thought it was just some snarkster – ayfkm ?? on whose dime ? as Senators ? or Campaign Surrogates ??

    o/t
    did y’all see this from the FDL Newsbox ?: Generals testify against Brig. Gen. “We Can’t Have Acquittals !” Hartmann – somewhere Swift and Mora are smiling.

    McClatchy

  25. Scarecrow says:

    With both Joe and Lindsey out of the country, this would be a good time to ask McCain about the difference between Sunni, Shia, al Qaeda and Iran.

  26. martha says:

    Their desperation has a familiar target: oil. Oh, and add natural gas as well. The pipelines that run through Georgia are the only source that don’t go through Russia or Iran. (1 million barrels a day for the oil alone…natural gas even more…)

  27. sailmaker says:

    Since McCain is ‘talking to Georgia every day’ and McCain ‘knows how to win wars’ and now there is war, shouldn’t we be looking at whether or not McCain was presumptive enough to encourage war? TPM says that McCain is sending a ‘bipartisan’ delegation to Georgia (Graham and Lieberman) to solve this problem (I don’t see TPM’s source, but this could be very interesting if true).

    I’ve noticed that every time Condi leaves town Cheney does something – last September she left town and Israel bombed something in Syria, which also sabotaged her scheduled November peace talks. In December 2007 she visited Kirkuk and the Turks bombed the Kurds. And so on. Now she is going to Georgia, elections are in November, and if I were in Iran I would wonder if the ‘new product’ being rolled out in September will be some kind of bombing.

    • ThingsComeUndone says:

      I’ve noticed that every time Condi leaves town Cheney does something – last September she left town and Israel bombed something in Syria, which also sabotaged her scheduled November peace talks. In December 2007 she visited Kirkuk and the Turks bombed the Kurds. And so on. Now she is going to Georgia, elections are in November, and if I were in Iran I would wonder if the ‘new product’ being rolled out in September will be some kind of bombing.

      So Darth is afraid of confronting Condi directly he has to do stuff behind her back I see Snark Potential here.

      • SparklestheIguana says:

        He probably breaks into her Watergate apartment too. Steals sheet music, sprays pesticides on her fruit.

    • emptywheel says:

      I’ve been wondering whether, with Condi in assent within the Administration and therefore the administration not embracing all out war, McCain wants to push the full neocon line?

      • sailmaker says:

        I don’t know. I’m kind of stumbling along as I go through this mess. I think you are very astute to notice that McCain may have gone off his leash.

        What we know:

        Bush is sending Rice, and ‘humanitarian aid’ to Georgia to be be dished out by our MILITARY.

        We had to have known that the Georgians were miss reading us – see the cyber dress rehearsals from Bmaz @14.
        And note that the cyber attacks were directed from within the U.S.

        McCain has strong lobbist ties to Georgia, and is sending his own delegation, Lieberman and Graham

        What we probably know:

        The Georgians didn’t show up for their last day of training in July (training with our 1200 troops), so the satellites that can read license plates should have picked up on troop movement and the cyber bugs should have picked up chatter.

        What we might conject: Rove had something to do with this mess. He had opportunity – in Yalta. He might have had the means because he has been in power and is now a mouthpiece (he infers) on t.v. which a foreign president might credible. He has the motive – a place in the McCain White House. It would mean going up against Rice/Bush, but the Cheney side of things seems to always prevail, so Rove would IMO go for the neocon side.

        But my questions are (currently, because I always think of more),

        1) could Rove cause a cyber attack? Dirt cheap at $.04 per machine – Rove would love it, and it is a dress rehearsal for domestic dirty tricks. But cause a couple of international attacks? I think of how Lebanon called Israel for the interruption of their cell and networks an ‘act of war’. That is pretty big time for Karl. Maybe he figures that he is ready for it.

        2) Is Condi really anti war/scrimish with Russia? She wants those radars in eastern Europe. She’s got the dark sites in eastern Europe. She wants to have missiles in eastern Europe. Has she really told Georgia not to go to war? I’ve seen some really mixed messages in the press (for whatever that is worth). Maybe she’d like to go toe to toe with the Russian bear and ‘win’ some concession for her legasy.

        In placing herself in Georgia amongst all the tinder and sparks, it is hard to read.

        Does Condi have the kind of steel to stop Georgia from ’standing up to Russia’ when the hawks are up for WWIII?

        • WilliamOckham says:

          I doubt Rove has the contacts with that part of the Russian mob that brokers out the professionals in cyberattacks and the free-lancers wouldn’t like dealing with somebody like Rove. Besides, it doesn’t sound like Rove’s style.

          • sailmaker says:

            The article says that the attacks came from within the US.

            I agree that it doesn’t sound quite like Rove – although he did do that phone jamming in New Hampshire in 2002. That is why it seems as if there is a dark side alliance/cobal, Rove with Cheney/CIA/Office of Special Projects or something like that. Cheney used Rove to out Plame – right? Cheney could have used Rove again to set up the Georgians, and Rove would have liked the plan that would have made McCain look presidential (as Rove already does on Fox). I

        • PetePierce says:

          What Condi has is lots of Blahniks and about 155 days in office. She ain’t gonna make jack happen wherever she is. Her mixed messages promising whatever sure must have faked Georgia coupled with Randy Scheunemann’s promises because there doesn’t seem to have been any trip wire.

          I wonder what Randy and Condi told Georgia we’d do for them. We have a long history of promising countries or factions something tangible in terms of aid and not delivering and leaving them up a creek without a paddle.

  28. skdadl says:

    Sheesh, you guys. It was bad enough when Karl Rove was running your elections and prosecutions. But now he’s running your foreign policy? Tell me not to panic.

  29. Hmmm says:

    Huh. What day did the Obama Krewe fly to Honolulu, vs. what day did the Georgians first poke the bear? Compensating for time zone differences, I mean.

  30. JimWhite says:

    I’m late to the party, but have two things to add:

    1. Rather than compare McCain and his butt boys’ actions here to Kerry visiting European leaders in 2004, I would compare this to Reagan’s behind the scenes negotiations with Iran in 1980.

    2. Watch. The. Aircraft. Carriers.

    • Minnesotachuck says:

      Re #1, Yes! Or also Nixon and Kissinger’s meddling in the run-up to the 1968 election.

      Re #2, Iran, maybe (god forbid). But I think sending the carriers to the coast Georgia is highly doubtful. The admirals would throw a fit at the prospect of them getting trapped on the wrong side of the Dardanelles and the Bosphorus. It also raises the question of the status of those waters and what permissions are therefore needed to pass through them, a question to which I don’t off hand know the answer. Considering that both sides of those narrow straits are Turkish territory, are they Turkish territorial waters?

      • JimWhite says:

        On number 2, I was thinking in terms of the Georgia adventure being the made for TV movie to distract us while things are put in place for Iran where the blockbuster movie will debut in September. I really hope I am wrong.

  31. SparklestheIguana says:

    OT –

    Cindy McCain treated for “minor sprain” after supporter shook her hand too hard

    Jeez. Neither the candidate nor his wife are in too good physical shape, apparently….

  32. plunger says:

    Rove’s hand is ALL OVER managing the narrative…the “discernible reality.”

    He’s advising McCain. This entire “war” was of Rove’s creation. It is 100% political – to the benefit of McCain.

    Watching CNN this afternoon it became painfully obvious that the entire afternoon was a Rove-produced made for tee-vee event. An open satellite line to Georgia allowed the Georgian puppet to broadcast the Rove narrative to the American People (in perfect english). The announcer dutifully asked the questions that Rove scripted, including asking Georgia’s President how helpful McCain has been during this crisis.

    Next up – a cut to the McCain news conference in Dearborn, already in progress…totally “on message.” All of the “journalists” were right on script, asking McCain questions as though he were ALREADY PRESIDENT.

    With CNN broadcasting his message live, McCain announced that he was sending Vice President Lieberman to Georgia on a fact finding mission.

    THIS IS THE MARK OF KARL ROVE, who is SO GOOD at what he does, it is evidence of his direct involvement.

    Karl Rove is guilty of CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT GENOCIDE (at the least).

    Rove = Terrorist.

  33. plunger says:

    “The Architect” – a flashback:

    August 14, 2006
    The UK Terror plot: what’s really going on?

    I have been reading very carefully through all the Sunday newspapers to try and analyze the truth from all the scores of pages claiming to detail the so-called bomb plot. Unlike the great herd of so-called security experts doing the media analysis, I have the advantage of having had the very highest security clearances myself, having done a huge amount of professional intelligence analysis, and having been inside the spin machine.

    So this, I believe, is the true story.

    None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn’t be a plane bomber for quite some time.

    In the absence of bombs and airline tickets, and in many cases passports, it could be pretty difficult to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt that individuals intended to go through with suicide bombings, whatever rash stuff they may have bragged in internet chat rooms.

    What is more, many of those arrested had been under surveillance for over a year – like thousands of other British Muslims. And not just Muslims. Like me. Nothing from that surveillance had indicated the need for early arrests.

    In all of this, the one thing of which I am certain is that the timing is deeply political. This is more propaganda than plot.

    http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/a…..ror_p.html

    _______________________

    Despite his prior illegal actions, Karl Rove still retained his security clearance, and knew for WEEKS prior to London’s fake terror alert what was coming. It was a Rove Production. This gave Rove the time necessary to plan a full frontal assault on the minds of the American People.

    With the knowledge of a terror-scare coming soon, all day Wednesday the entire Neo-Conservative Republican political apparatus had been busy assailing their political enemy’s supposed unwillingness to fight terrorism. On Thursday the Neo-Con assault intensified and finally peaked when news of the British scheme was made public. Then, in the most vile and unbecoming manner possible, Republicans accused Democrats of having forgotten the attacks of 9/11. Some Republicans were even gleeful enough to remind reporters that with the anniversary of 9/11 fast approaching their attack on Democrats, coupled with the London conspiracy would do wonders for their lagging poll numbers:

    “Weeks before September 11th, this is going to play big,” one White House official said.

    The timing of the release of this information was not coincidental. Let’s take a look at how many other circumstances coincided with this fake terror scare…

    Lieberman was not the Democratic Party candidate – he was quite literally the Israeli candidate.

    AIPAC lost to Lamont, cracking the door open for an anti-AIPAC rebellion at the polls.

    Less than 36 hours later…
    “TERROR IN THE SKIES” was the headline on all news programming in the United States – and CNN would have you believe that the entire world changed that day (again).

    The world didn’t change – but CNN’s fear-mongering role in it on behalf of Israel has been clearly exposed.

    All of the President’s NeoCons have made it known since Lieberman’s loss to Lamont, just how important Lieberman has been to their agenda – the Zionist Agenda.

    They knew that Lieberman would lose, and Rove planned a full frontal attack for the aftermath – which by necessity always leads with a terror scare. Rove even called Lieberman directly to offer his help.

    As part of the game – a CNN talking head asks the question…
    “Lamont is the Al Qaeda Candidate???”

    KARL ROVE WROTE THAT TALKING POINT. CNN READ IT ON AIR.

    Rove invented the London Terror scare for political reasons. Rove helped Lieberman with strategy and fund raising in his transition to “Independent” – including arranging for a fundraiser hosted by none other than Mel Sembler, who later went on to become the leader of the Scooter Libby legal defense fund. The same Ambassador Mel Sembler who was central to Ledeen’s Niger Yellowcake letter forgery in Italy.

    KARL…YOU’RE TOO GOOD AT WHAT YOU DO. YOUR FINGERPRINTS ARE ALL OVER THIS GEORGIA THING! The timing, coinciding with the opening ceremonies of the Olympics? Beautiful Karl, just beautiful.

    You love the attention, don’t you? You can’t help by take credit, can you?

  34. plunger says:

    Anybody notice how fast the story about a certain scientist dropped completely out of the headlines into the ether?

    Bruce Ivins Who?

    ”That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. ”We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”

    Karl Rove

  35. plunger says:

    RICE – The enabler of Armageddon:

    Secretary of State Rice’s response to the disaster in New Orleans was: “The Lord Jesus Christ is going to come on time.” She added: “If we just wait.” “On time”? How does Rice know the exact time Armageddon starts? “If we just wait”? That means in her, that is our, lifetime!

    By using NSA intelligence to set an invisible tripwire, the Bush administration is laying the condition for regional conflagration with untold consequences — from Pakistan to Afghanistan, from Iraq to Israel. Secretly devising a scheme that might thrust Israel into a ring of fire cannot be construed as a blunder. It is a deliberate, calculated and methodical plot.

    In order to try to understand the neoconservative road map, senior national security professionals have begun circulating among themselves a 1996 neocon manifesto against the Middle East peace process. Titled “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,” its half-dozen authors included neoconservatives highly influential with the Bush administration — Richard Perle, first-term chairman of the Defense Policy Board; Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense; and David Wurmser, Cheney’s chief Middle East aide.

    Richard Haass, the Middle East advisor on the elder Bush’s National Security Council and President Bush’s first-term State Department policy planning director, and now president of the Council on Foreign Relations, openly scoffed at Bush’s Middle East policy in an interview on July 30 in the Washington Post:

    “The arrows are all pointing in the wrong direction. The biggest danger in the short run is it just increases frustration and alienation from the United States in the Arab world. Not just the Arab world, but in Europe and around the world. People will get a daily drumbeat of suffering in Lebanon and this will just drive up anti-Americanism to new heights.” When asked about the president’s optimism, he replied, “An opportunity? Lord, spare me. I don’t laugh a lot. That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard in a long time. If this is an opportunity, what’s Iraq? A once-in-a-lifetime chance?”

    It is a deliberate, calculated and methodical plot.

    “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm”

    Meyrav Wurmser was its author.

    http://fairuse.100webcustomers…..on027.html

  36. plunger says:

    Armageddon Ready?

    “President Bush said to all of us: ‘I’m driven with a mission from God. ‘God would tell me, ‘George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan’.” “And I did, and then God would tell me, ‘George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq…’ And I did.

    “At Church one day [Tom DeLay, House Majority Leader] listened as the pastor declared that ‘the war between America and Iraq is the gateway to the Apocalypse.’ DeLay rose to speak, not only to the congregation but to 225 Christian TV and radio stations. ‘Ladies and gentlemen,’ he said, ‘what has been spoken here tonight is the truth of God.’”

  37. plunger says:

    Karl Rove and Propaganda:

    http://dailydocket.blogspot.co…..ganda.html

    But whereas Hitler was a true master of propaganda, and his minister a far less talented functionary, today the situation is reversed: our propaganda minister is the master, and our leader his functionary. Karl Rove is so confident of his strategy that he now announces it to the public! In January of this year,

    Rove noted that we face “a ruthless enemy” and “need a commander in chief and a Congress who understand the nature of the threat and the gravity of the moment America finds itself in.”

    Here’s more:

    “[T]he people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”

    — Karl Rove (oops!) Hermann Goering

  38. plunger says:

    Karl:

    Put your hand on the bible.
    Now, under oath, do you swear that the NSA, AT&T, Comverse and others were NOT conducting Warrantless Wiretaps in advance of 9/11 during the early months of the Bush Administration, so help you God?

    What’s that Karl, I can’t hear you, could you speak up please, you’re mumbling.

    You’re not willing to swear to it under oath?

    You mean the Bush Administration ALREADY WAS engaged in warrantless wiretaps prior to 9/11, and 9/11 happened any way?

    Well shit, that changes everything, doesn’t it Karl?

    Maybe it’s the case that 9/11 could never have happened WITHOUT your warrantless wiretaps prior to 9/11.

    How else could you orchestrate all of the interference (including shutting down the Able Danger program) to enable the attacks to be pulled off on the exact same day and at the exact same time as NORAD had been ordered to stand down to conduct drills simulating planes being hijacked and flown into buildings?

    We know Karl.

    We know what you did.

    We know.

  39. WilliamOckham says:

    I don’t understand why there isn’t somebody on the Dem side smart enough to stand up and holler “Logan Act”. At worst it forces Bush to come out publicly give McCain a hug. At best, the pundits all start to question McCain’s foreign policy credentials.

  40. bigbrother says:

    This area is part of the Russian Federation. Russia is defending its sovereign territories. Russia also controls a large part of oil that runs Europe’s industrial complex. The USA is doing another Black Flag Op in Georgia who without the large mountain range separating the two teritories would be in the federation as well.
    McInsane is trumpeting another war. Any naval activity in this area is domed. Our Nato allies are not coming to the plate to bat. Johhny boy will get creamed on this in the long run.

  41. spoonful says:

    Almost like April Gillespie telling Saddam Hussein in 1991 that the US would have no opinion if Iraq reclaimed its 19th province – Kuwait.

  42. Hmmm says:

    Curious. It seems to be coming out that the governments of Russia, Georgia, and the U.S. all had significant motivation for an outbreak of hostilities. So it’s a 3-fer.

    But why now? Who benefits most from this timing?

    • Hmmm says:

      Well, it’s specifically the Air Force cyber-war-unit that’s not being shut down — actually I think the coverage said it’s simply being kept status quo rather than being reorganized and expanded as per an earlier plan — so I guess it might be inferred that other cyber-war-units may also exist within the US. Maybe within the other military services, or maybe somewhere else. So this might be part of a turf battle. And/or it might be that one of the other cyber-war-units doesn’t want its actions (potentially including but not limited to Georgia) to be tracked by the other cyber-war-units. Hard to say.

  43. bmaz says:

    The Logan Act is a United States federal law that forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments. It was passed in 1799 and last amended in 1994. Violation of the Logan Act is a felony, punishable under federal law with imprisonment of up to three years.
    The text of the Act is broad and is addressed at any attempt of a US citizen to conduct foreign relations without authority.

    • rxbusa says:

      so since Lieberman and Graham are going under the auspices of the Senate Armed Services Cmte, Logan Act won’t apply?

      • WilliamOckham says:

        The point of talking about the Logan Act is not so much that McCain has any fear of prosecution, but forcing the Bush Administration to either endorse his activities or repudiate them. McCain loses either way and the pundits have tostart asking questions about his foreign policy cred.

        • PetePierce says:

          While Randy Scheunemann, McCain’s foreign policy “advisor” and collector of hundreds of thousands of dollars from Georgia got them favorable cheerleading support from the US, and mixed messages from Manolo Blahnik Rice, when it came time to defend them on the ground, the US is AWOL. The media reports that the US won’t get in a “shooting war” with Russia.

          That must be one of the few nations we won’t get in a “shooting war” with.

          Once again we have a nexus with the cadre of lobbyists from Team McCain and big bucks they’ve been paid.

          On April 17, a month and a half after Scheunemann stopped working for Georgia, his partner signed a $200,000 agreement with the Georgian government. The deal added to an arrangement that brought in more than $800,000 to the two-man firm from 2004 to mid-2007. For the duration of the campaign, Scheunemann is taking a leave of absence from the firm.

          McCain Foreign Policy Guru Got Big Bucks from Georgia and they got Zilch

      • PetePierce says:

        Correction. No prosecutions in the history of the Logan Act. since 1799. An indictment obtained against Fraancis Flournoy the Ky. farmer was never prosecuted. Our Attorney General doesn’t prosecute prominent Bushies.

  44. rxbusa says:

    Okay, I get it. Thanks!

    but seeing as BushCo doesn’t much give a hoot for laws anyway, it seems unlikely that 1) the Dems will call them on it or 2) they would bother to respond.

    • bmaz says:

      Exactly as WO said. And I might note, that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. The GOP made a huge stink about Nancy Pelosi. Such as the Wall Street Journal
      Illegal Diplomacy: Did Nancy Pelosi commit a felony when she went to Syria?
      There was simply a ton of similar shrieking from Pelosi’s trip to Syria, and her facts were nowhere near as exacerbated as those of McCain’s play. He is literally enlisting a foreign leader to campaign for him. There will be no prosecution under the Logan Act, I am not aware of there ever being one quite frankly; however, this play by McCain is shameless and outrageous. It should be exposed and called as such.

  45. bell says:

    i thought this russia/georgia conflict and story had legs.. glad you are talking about some of the ins and outs…

  46. yonodeler says:

    I think there will be a Bush administration effort not to bring back memories of the Cuban Missile Crisis period. Nukes will get as little mention as possible—but many are thinking of nukes while not discussing them much.

    Here’s a paragraph from an iht.com article:

    Saakashvili interpreted the aid operation as a decision to defend Georgia’s ports and airports, though Bush administration and Pentagon officials quickly made it clear that would not be the case. A senior administration official said, “We won’t be protecting the airport or seaport, but we’ll certainly protect our assets if we need to.”

    While humanitarian relief is justified, the relief-providers sent by Bush, which include US military personnel, are also being used to make a political statement at home, to send a statement to Putin and Russia, and to see what Russia will do in response to the US deployments into and distribution of aid within Georgia. The atmosphere is crackling with suspense, and hums of weaponry being re-aimed are almost audible.

    • bmaz says:

      Well, not everybody is not mentioning nukes. The Russians have already stated that if foreign air support is brought into play against them, they will respond with tactical nukes. Georgia and it’s Western allies have fucked this situation up about as badly as is possible. Russia is thumbing their nose at the West; and, really, why shouldn’t they?

  47. alank says:

    As long as Russia occupies Georgia, insuring against further hostilities directed toward the provinces brutally attacked by Georgia, the U.S. military will have to report to Russia regarding any assets in that country.

    • bmaz says:

      Yeah, this story has been around a while now; and Horton has been talking about it for a while. It has gotten drowned out a bit by the Siegelman case. Not pretty.

  48. PetePierce says:

    We have of course had troops in Georgia and a hefty number of contractors–at least 127 military trainers there, and 37 contractors–according to the Pentagon and who knows if they didn’t lowball that number.

    The more that emerges on this the more it seems tragic. A significant number of people in Georgia and Ossetia were killed and badly wounded, and all of this could have and should have been prevented although Russia was itching for this excuse for years and they got it.

      • PetePierce says:

        Here’s one firm bottom line.

        Russia isn’t much moved by what the US thinks about their pushing forward at this point, and is using the French peace plan to continue pushing forward.

        It’s a firm example that as Bush leaves, he/this country is minimally respected by foreign powers.

        Putin sees no incentive to listen to anything Bush has to offer and he has a lot of something we have little of–oil. Financially, they aren’t on the ropes the were on a few years ago.

        • GregB says:

          The very power and prestige the Bushies and the neo-cons were seeking have been frittered and pissed away in the sands of Mesopotamia and in Afhganistan, the graveyard of empires.

          -G

  49. Sara says:

    I believe the Logan Act was used as a threat against Father Coughlin in late 1941, early 1942, but was avoided when the Catholic Hierarchy silenced him for the duration of WWII. Coughlin was receiving money from German Agents at the time, and had been for about three years, and Hoover had the evidence which was briefed to Cardinal Spellman. FDR did not want or need a Catholic fight at the time, thus the non-indictment. Spellman had been secretly intrusted with a substantial part of the Vatican’s bankroll, and he too didn’t want troubles. Thus Coughlin was silenced for the duration.

  50. yonodeler says:

    If a Russian officer’s analysis of the Georgian attack on Tskhinvali, found here, is to be believed, there were military blunders by the attackers that don’t speak well of their training and use of intelligence.

    Colonel Konashenko said: “The Georgians could not get tanks through these narrow streets. So first they turned it to ruins with a Grad attack and tried to punch through here to the centre of the city. There was heavy fighting in the streets. I think more than 500 bodies were pulled out of this part of town.”

    Streets too narrow for the tanks? High-resolution images from US military intelligence satellites could have make the misfit obvious in advance. Makes me wonder whether Georgia’s military leaders didn’t get that detailed intelligence, or did and disregarded it. Blind rocketing of the city helped Russia, chiefly Putin, cook up an ostensibly humanitarian justification for Russia’s even larger atrocities.

  51. host says:

    EW…you seem surprised…do not be. We live in a country with one, ”property party”, with two right wings, republican and democratic. The republican wing of ”the party” is the viral, war making disease, and the democratic ”wing” are the complicit, sometimes unwitting, enabling, dupes. Pelosi and Hoyer and Obama have certainly played that role, quite recently,

    How else could John McCloy be ”the friend of”, and ”serve” nine US presidents, with this background? How else could the grandson of the man, who as president of ESSO NJ, supplied the Luftwaffe with the ingredient to achieve aviation grad, fuel octane, to bomb London, and still prosper from the willed wealth of Nazi profits, become the trusted money manager and close friend of one US president, and then be appointed US ambassador to the very nation his grandfather was an integral part in the bombing of, by the successor and son of that US president, and develop a close friendship with that nation’s queen? No need to even dig, the details are all out in the open… a US political system so far right, it should tip over!

    ….McCloy continued to specialize in German cases and in 1936 Mccloy traveled to Berlin where he had a meeting with Rudolf Hess. This was followed by McCloy sharing a box with with Adolf Hitler and Herman Goering at the Berlin Olympics. McCloy’s law firm also represented I.G. Farben and its affiliates during this period.

    In 1941 Henry L. Stimson selected McCloy to become assistant secretary of war. In this role he was involved in the decision to pass the Lend-Lease Act and the internment of 120,000 Japanese-Americans. He was later criticized for opposing the plan to bomb the railroads leading to Auschwitz….

    …John Diebold was active in public as well as private pursuits. He was a trustee emeritus of the Carnegie Institution of Washington, and a trustee of the Committee for Economic Development, and related public policy institutions.

    He served as Vice Chairman to John J. McCloy at the American Council on Germany….

    …John McCloy was president of the World Bank (1947-49) before replacing Lucius Clay, as High Commissioner for Germany. Soon after taking office McCloy became embroiled in the infamous case of Klaus Barbie, the man who had been Gestapo chief in Lyon during the war….

    …In 1950 John McCloy began receiving communications from people in Germany calling on him to release Nazis from prison. This pressure came from senior figures in the new West German government. Two figures they were especially concerned about were German industrialists, Alfried Krupp and Friedrich Flick, who had both been convicted of serious war crimes at Nuremberg.

    Alfried Krupp and his father Gustav Krupp ran Friedrich Krupp AG, Germany’s largest armaments company. Krupp and his father were initially hostile to the Nazi Party. However, in 1930 they were persuaded by Hjalmar Schacht that Adolf Hitler would destroy the trade unions and the political left in Germany. Schacht also pointed out that a Hitler government would considerably increase expenditure on armaments. In 1933 Krupp joined the Schutzstaffel (SS).

    During the Second World War Krupp ensured that a continuous supply of his firm’s tanks, munitions and armaments reached the German Army. He was also responsible for moving factories from occupied countries back to Germany where they were rebuilt by the Krupp company….

    …In March 1950, McCloy was given the task of appointing a new head of the West German Secret Service. After discussing the matter with Frank Wisner of the CIA, McCloy decided on Reinhard Gehlen, the Nazi war criminal. This resulted in protests from the Soviet Union government who wanted to try Gehlen for war crimes……

    …. McCloy also began pardoning German industrialists who had been convicted at Nuremberg. This included Fritz Ter Meer, the senior executive of I. G. Farben, the company that produced Zyklon B poison for the gas chambers. He was also Hitler’s Commissioner of for Armament and War Production for the chemical industry during the war…..

    …In January, 1951, McCloy announced that Alfried Krupp and eight members of his board of directors who had been convicted with him, were to be released. His property, valued at around 45 million, and his numerous companies were also restored to him.

    Others that McCloy decided to free included Friedrich Flick, one of the main financial supporters of Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). During the Second World War Flick became extremely wealthy by using 48,000 slave labourers from SS concentration camps in his various industrial enterprises. It is estimated that 80 per cent of these workers died as a result of the way they were treated during the war. His property was restored to him and like Krupp became one of the richest men in Germany.

    McCloy’s decision was very controversial. Eleanor Roosevelt wrote to McCloy to ask: ”Why are we freeing so many Nazis?…..

    Monday, Aug. 19, 1957
    …The wealthiest man in Europe—and perhaps in the world—rose shortly before 8 one morning this week in a modest ranch-style house….

    …the day was an important one in the life of Alfried Felix Alwyn Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach, ruler and sole owner of Germany’s $1 billion Krupp industrial empire. On Alfried Krupp’s soth birthday, his worldwide empire was ready to do him honor…..

    …After leaving Germany in 1953 McCloy became chairman of the Chase Manhattan Bank (1953-60) and the Ford Foundation (1958-65). He also continued to work for Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy. The company was owned by the Rockefeller family and therefore McCloy became involved in lobbying for the gas and oil industry.

    McCloy remained close to Dwight D. Eisenhower …

    ….It was Eisenhower who first introduced McCloy to Sid Richardson and Clint Murchison. Soon afterwards, Chase Manhattan Bank began providing the men with low-interest loans. In 1954 McCloy worked with Richardson, Murchison and Robert R. Young in order to take control of the New York Central Railroad Company. …..

    ……Lyndon B. Johnson discussed the possibility of appointing John McCloy to the Warren Commission in a telephone conversation with Abe Fortas on 29th November, 1963. When Johnson mentioned his name Fortas replied: “I think that’d be great. He’s a wonderful man and a very dear friend of mine. I’m devoted to him.”…..

    ….when Richard Russell, Thomas Hale Boggs and John Sherman Cooper said that they had “strong doubts” about the lone gunman theory, McCloy took the side of Gerald R. Ford and Allen Dulles. In fact, McCloy played the main role in persuading the three men to sign the Warren Commission report that they did not believe in…..

    ….in 1975 McCloy established the McCloy Fund. The main purpose of this organization was to promote German-American relations. The initial funding came from German industrialists. In 1982, the chairman of the Krupp Foundation, Berthold Beitz, gave the McCloy Fund a $2 million grant.

    Three years later, the president of Germany, Richard von Weizsacker, conferred honorary German citizenship on McCloy. He praised McCloy’s “human decency in helping the beaten enemy to recover” and his efforts to build “one of the free and prosperous countries in the world.” Weizsacker had good reason to be thankful to McCloy. His father was Ernst von Weizsacker, a leading official in Adolf Hitler’s government. ….

    …John McCloy developed a close relationship with Mohammad Reza Pahlavi (Shah of Iran), who gained power in Iran during the Second World War. McCloy’s legal firm, Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy, provided legal counsel to Pahlavi. The Chase International Investment Corporation, which McCloy established in the 1950s, had several joint ventures in Iran.

    McCloy was also chairman of the Chase Manhattan Bank. Pahlavi had a personal account with the bank. So also did his private family trust, the Pahlavi Foundation. …

    ..Rockefeller also established the highly secret, Project Alpha. The main objective was to persuade Carter to provide a safe haven for Mohammad Reza Pahlavi (code-named ”Eagle”). McCloy, Rockefeller and Kissinger were referred to as the ”Triumvirate”. Rockefeller used money from Chase Manhattan Bank to pay employees of Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy who worked on the project. Some of this money was used to persuade academics to write articles defending the record of Pahlavi. For example, George Lenczowski, professor emeritus at the University of California, was paid $40,000 to write a book with the ”intention to answer the shah’s critics”.

    Kissinger telephoned Zbigniew Brzezinski, National Security Advisor to Carter, on 7th April, 1979, and berated the president for his emphasis on human rights, which he considered to be ”amateurish” and ”naive”. Brzezinski suggested he talked directly to Jimmy Carter. Kissinger called Carter and arranged for him to meet David Rockefeller, two days later. Gerald Ford also contacted Carter and urged him to ”stand by our friends”.

    McCloy, Rockefeller and Kissinger arranged for conservative journalists to mount an attack on Carter over this issue. ….

    …Faced with the now unanimous opposition of his closest advisers, the president reluctantly agreed to admit the Shah. He arrived at New York Hospital on 22nd October, 1979. Joseph V. Reed circulated a memo to McCloy and other members of Project Alpha: ”Our mission impossible is completed. My applause is like thunder.” Less than two weeks later, Iranian militants stormed the U.S. Embassy in Teheran and took hostage 66 Americans. Thus beginning the Iranian Hostage Crisis.

    McCloy now persuaded Jimmy Carter to freeze all Iran’s assets in the United States. This was the day before Iran’s $4.05 million interest payment was due on its $500 million loan. As this was not now paid, Chase Manhattan Bank announced that the Iranian government was in default. The bank was now allowed to seize all of Iran’s Chase accounts and used this money to ”offset” any outstanding Iranian loans. In fact, by the end of this process, the bank ended up in profit from the deal……

    …Ultimate Insider, Ultimate Outsider – New York Times It was a logical choice: John J. McCloy, the friend and adviser to nine Presidents, the Wall Street lawyer par excellence, the chairman of the Council on…

    ….Farish’s own family fortune was made in the same Hitler project, … was supplying gasoline and tetraethyl lead to Germany’s submarines and air force….

    ..Reporter’s Notebook; A Weekend With Bush, In His Numerous Forms …Since the election, he has visited all three of the estates of Mr. Farish, a Houston businessman who manages Mr. Bush’s blind trust. …

    …A horse enthusiast, the queen has stabled horses at Kentucky farms and spent time at the 1800-acre Lane’s End Farm, owned by Will Farish, ……

    ….Queen fulfils dream in Millionaire’s Row at the Kentucky Derby …May 6, 2007 … The Queen’s Praetorian Guard against a press of D-list celebrities were William Farish, former US ambassador to London, and his wife Sarah, ….

  52. plunger says:

    This entire episode goes well beyond mere Logan Act violations.

    Inciting War solely for McCain’s Political Gain is Treason & a War Crime.

    Karl Rove needs to be stopped…he’s running the entire strategy.

  53. Leen says:

    Karl Rove should be in prison for outing Plame, undermining the Dept of Justice etc not out helping start more wars. Is there no end to this madness?

  54. priscianusjr says:

    Host at 147
    All very interesting about McCloy and Farish, but, especially since your posting consists almost entirely of quotations, I think it would be nice if you cited your sources, one of which is a JFK Assasination Debate on the Education Forum from 2005 and another, Bruce Walton’s article on the “Underground Nazi Invasion” hosted on the UFO site “Beyond Weird”.