Whitehouse and Leahy Scold Cornyn and Specter for Asking for No Prosecution Guarantee

The vote on Holder is already done, but in the dregs section as Senators explain why they supported Holder, Whitehouse and Leahy took the opportunity to scold Cornyn and Specter for trying to make Holder commit to no prosecutions for torture. 

Whitehouse said (this was a liveblog approximation):

We came perilously close to seeking a prosecutive commitment from an AG candidate on an issue he would have to make a decision on.  We don’t ask judicial candidates their position on a case, the notion that a person who is a candidate for AG should have to make a prosecutative decision before he has even read the file or before he has even been read into the program at question.

And Leahy said they were thinking "Alice in Wonderland" if they thought any prosecutor would make such a commitment before reviewing the facts of a case. 

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  1. bobschacht says:

    Good morning! Thanks for this report.
    I certainly hope that Whitehouse/Leahey attitude is Holder’s attitude, as well. Perhaps this can be considered a nudge to Holder?

    Bob in HI

  2. sojourner says:

    Leahy’s comments to Cornyn are nothing compared to the comments I am going to leave with his staff!

  3. ralphcat52 says:

    The weird thing is that it had to be said at all. Cornyn and Specter need to take a refresher course or two — how about ethics and the law?

  4. BoxTurtle says:

    They’ll try to kill the prosecutions again. This was only the most recent move.

    I think we’re going to have to watch bills in this congress very closely to make sure nothing slips in that would hurt the prosecutions. Never mind the GOP, there are key Dems who want this buried.

    Boxturtle (GOP best hope they’re WRONG about God, because it won’t be friendly when they meet)

    • JTMinIA says:

      My favorite reptile wrote: “I think we’re going to have to watch bills in this congress very closely to make sure nothing slips in that would hurt the prosecutions. Never mind the GOP, there are key Dems who want this buried.”

      To which I respond: “I DiFi you to name one such Democrat!”

  5. FormerFed says:

    I’m not surprised at Cornyn, he is portraying himself to be the poster boy of the far right numbnuts. I hoped Specter would show a little more common sense, but once more he proves me wrong.

    With the legal staff that the Pres is putting in place in DOJ and the WH, I am looking for great things on setting the Constitution back where it should be and also hope for some serious investigation into the Bush years.

    Alright, Mr Holder, the table is being set – go get’em.

  6. philintn says:

    (Delurking….)

    Say, did you hear the one about the spoiled rich degenerate who’s daddy bought him a country? He did the same thing that all spoiled rich degenerates do. He wrecked it. He also totaled out the world in damages.
    However he did keep us on the road for 7 miles……

    (relurking…..)

      • philintn says:

        Thx. Whilst I can’t get through a morning without coffee and FDL/Emptywheel fix, I’m probably better off just reading the excellent posts that are a mainstay of this site, and keeping my simmering outrage to myself. The last time I delurked (during the libby liveblog) I was deserving of the slapdown that I got for stating something about Manne Coulter being the father of Dick Cheney’s new grandbaby. Oops, I did it again….. relurk.

  7. JThomason says:

    This all becoming very clear to me. For the Bushites and Field Marshall Cheney it all about opening the door for accepting the prospect of brutality in social relationships. Their economics and the economics of the GOP minority are all about an “I got mine” and “me first” attitude vested in status.

    There are historical incidents in the last last 100 years that portray the society these factors aspire to. Consider the defending of the Ford Motor Company against union organizers with well placed machine gun nests and the lording over by the DC police and Police Chief Schwarzkopf after WWI of military pensioners who marched on Washington for payment as had been promised.

    The social revolutions of the 60’s did much to undermine these tactics but Cheney and Boehner pine for their reemergence. A irrefutable stand against the camel’s nose of brutal coercive methods is essential to holding on to progress.

  8. siri says:

    I really wish Whitehouse would have been pegged for some position in the DOJ. I suppose, or like to think, that Obi wanted to keep him in the Senate cause he’s one of the better senators we have.
    He surely should be headed UP in his career tho.
    I have immense respect and admiration for him. He’s been open, honest and right on the money with Bu$hCo abuses.
    And he’s been outraged. Why aren’t the rest of them outraged?
    I’m outraged!!!

      • LabDancer says:

        Yup. And there’s also the Peter Principle to bear in mind.

        IMO Whitehouse has done some terrific things so far, and over time might even prove himself a lion of the place. As Teddy came to find, that’s hardly failure.

  9. plunger says:

    Why shouldn’t Cornyn and Spector be investigated for attempted obstruction of justice, misprision of felony, misprision of treason and conspiracy?

    Can we get some damn laws enforced around here or what?

    • janetplanet says:

      I read your comment and immediately thought, “who do you have to blow to get some laws enforced around here?”, but, of course, the answer to that is Clinton!

      Thank you FDL.

    • TheraP says:

      treason and conspiracy

      Treason. I think we’re gonna hear more of that word. And if not by the pols, in the blogs.

      Yes. Thanks!

  10. al75 says:

    So Holder is going to take office – and the decisions he makes, the investigations he does/doesn’t pursue, charges he does/doesn’t file, are going to shape our future?

    What’s his real orientation? He put a bunch of dirty pols in jail at the start of his career – but he’s playing at the highest level now. Were Spector and Cornyn just making a pathetic effort to block him, for all the transparent reasons we infer – or was there some kind of back-room dealmaking going on?

    Time will tell, I suppose. But I’m curious to know the opinions of other EW readers: what do you think Holder’s really made of?

    • FormerFed says:

      Well, the short answer is: Firepups have differing opinions on Mr. Holder. I have supported him and hope he has the guts to make the tough decisions, others think he has bent to the wind too much in both Govt and private matters.

      So we will see – I am certainly hoping for the best as I am sure the folks that were lukewarm on Mr. Holder are also.

      OT, but I have been watching Al Gore on climate change and a Senate Committee. Damn, it is heartwarming to watch thinking people discuss tough issues. What a change from the Bush years. OTOH, the Repubs just got voted down – 60 to 30 something – on trying to tack on the Mexico City option on the SCIP bill, so the right wingnuts are still with us, but thankfully in smaller numbers.

    • BoxTurtle says:

      I think Holder will end up being a Democratic tool. I think Holder’s appointment was part of the price for Clinton to drop and he’s there primarily to protect both Clintons from investigations into Bill’s fundraising. I think he’s also there to make sure no wiretapping/torture/war crimes investigations occur that might threaten powerful democrats.

      But I think as long as it doesn’t threaten his patrons, he’ll follow the law.

      Boxturtle (Yeah, yeah, I know: Tinfoil goes shiny side OUT)

      • bmaz says:

        The Clintons are no fans of holder at this point, fora variety of reasons from when he was in the Clinton DOJ as well as, most notably, his working with Obama early in the campaign while Clinton was still in it. Whatever the reasons for holder’s appointment, it is not as a freaking favor to Clinton. This is absurd.

        Former Fed @17 – As you know, I was one of those vociferously against Holder; that period and argument now being moot, I wish him luck and hope he does his job well. He is our guy now. irrespective of whether he was the best choice originally; now he is going to be the AG, I wish him well.

        • BooRadley says:

          As you know, I was one of those vociferously against Holder; that period and argument now being moot, I wish him luck and hope he does his job well. He is our guy now. irrespective of whether he was the best choice originally; now he is going to be the AG, I wish him well.

          Well said.

        • BoxTurtle says:

          I stand corrected! I was always under the impression that Holder was a Clinton crony.

          However, my statement about protecting high ranking Dems still stands. I think we’re going to be disappointed with a lot of the cases he chooses to ignore.

          Boxturtle (We’ll likely be pleased with the cases he takes up, however)

        • LabDancer says:

          I’m with you on this entire read.

          I’m thinking the problem with Holder is that he’s intelligent & well-educated & socialized enough to come up with correct, ethical initial responses to just about anything, & believe he means it – yet over time, faced with pressures from actual interests, the lack of depth shows up as, not so much as facade – more like ‘that’s all there is’: no really commitment or passion such as might express depth of feeling or effect meaningful change.

          I get the impression the new president, who some think of as being little more than words [having already betrayed his shallowness on some fronts – or seeming to – so embarking on 8 years of doing pretty much the same], and in this comes across [to some] in much the same way as this impression of Holder, either saw something of himself in Holder, or else just saw Holder for his usefulness in narrowing the number of fronts on which he will have to battle. Like Bob from HI, I’m hopeful – in my case that it’s the latter.

          I base that hope partly on the impression that Obama, despite the brevity of his impress on the body politic and governance, has already exhibited a significant number of times superior tolerance, self-discipline, patience, stick-to-it-ness, the ability to surprise establishment, inspire masses to useful action or inoffensive passivity, and entertain & intrigue thinkers – – and partly on gaining increasing comfort with the notion that the evident degree of tolerance on his part accurately reflects an ability to summon it up for & sustain it in relation to those who are – I’m about to put this awkwardly – more ‘human’ [ie weak, failure prone, on their own more likely to yield on things that really matter where lines should be drawn] than how he sees himself.

          There’s a line from Kurt Vonnegut somewhere – maybe he converted it or it morphed after him, going to perspective; something like: the only things that are truly a matter of life and death are life and death – & nothing you do will stop either.

          • BayStateLibrul says:

            Life happens too fast for you ever to think about it. If you could just persuade people of this, but they insist on amassing information.
            Kurt Vonnegut
            US novelist (1922 – 2007)

  11. kspena says:

    fyi- via Democracy Now- ProPublica has developed a working list of public and unreleased DOJ documents ‘justifying’ bush’s decisions on torture and surveillance, etc. It will be updated as more become known (there may be as many a forty yet to come). It can be searched by various terms.

    http://www.propublica.org/special/missing-memos

    • Dismayed says:

      Reply above. Guess I hit the wrong button. Go up and look at Plunger’s link at 22 if you missed it, guys. Not tin foil hat stuff as usual. But laugh your ass off funny.

      • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

        But laugh your ass off funny.

        Lordy, thx for the recommendation. I’m still wiping tears of laughter from my eyes. Great mid-morning break.

        (Someone outta send that link to Sully, because it does kind of qualify as a ‘Mental Health Break’.)

  12. jonL says:

    Lets be serious. If we can get back to some semblance of the great DOJ we were all once proud of then that would be a shining moment for this new administration. If we received more and there were special prosecutors set upon Bush, Cheney and the rest of the thugs that would also be great. I for one do not plan on holding my breath over the idea that Holder will actually go after the Bushies. And yes the rule of law and blind justice will take an enormous hit to the stomach if Holder fails to do this. Yes we are all pissed!!!

  13. wigwam says:

    BREAKING: Per Kit Bond, they got their no-prosecution guarantee:

    Sen. Christopher “Kit” Bond, a Republican from Missouri and the vice chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, said in an interview with The Washington Times that he will support Eric H. Holder Jr.’s nomination for Attorney General because Mr. Holder assured him privately that Mr. Obama’s Justice Department will not prosecute former Bush officials involved in the interrogations program.

      • JimWhite says:

        Oh, crap! Paging bmaz and EW! Can we get these folks prosecuted ASAP? I’m thinking we need to man the phones for a massive call-in to the Senate to stop this process now and investigate if Bond is telling the truth. Both Bond and Holder are toast if this is true. On the other hand, I wouldn’t put it past Bond to just make this up and run with it…

    • klynn says:

      By leaking a comment such as this, it makes everyone an accessory at least that’s the GOP take I imagine. And besides, it’s not Holder that prosecutes…He can “promise” all he wants, but the law is clear. The law trumps Holder any day of the week and Holder knows this.

      Maybe the GOP misunderstood Holder.

      • klynn says:

        And besides, Kit will sound pretty stupid when evidence shows a great need to move forward, as Kit throws a tantrum yelling, “But he said he would not prosecute!”

        The gallery asks Kit, “What, you don’t want him to do his job?”

  14. jwh186 says:

    Granted it is The Washington Times but they are reporting
    “EXCLUSIVE: Holder assures GOP on interrogation prosecution”

    Sen. Christopher “Kit” Bond, a Republican from Missouri and the vice chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, said in an interview with The Washington Times that he will support Eric H. Holder Jr.’s nomination for Attorney General because Mr. Holder assured him privately that Mr. Obama’s Justice Department will not prosecute former Bush officials involved in the interrogations program.

    Sen. Bond also said that Mr. Holder told him in a private meeting Tuesday that he will not strip the telecommunications companies that cooperated with the National Security Agency after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks of retroactive legal immunity from civil lawsuits–removing another potential sticking point among GOP senators.

  15. plunger says:

    Has anyone in this administration been guilty of violating the DC Blackmail Statute?

    District of Columbia blackmail statute. D.C. Code § 22-3852 provides that:

    a) A person commits the offense of blackmail, if, with intent to obtain property of another or to cause another to do or refrain from doing any act, that person threatens:

    1) To accuse any person of a crime;

    2) To expose a secret or publicize an asserted fact, whether true or false, tending to subject any person to hatred, contempt, or ridicule; or

    3) To impair the reputation of any person, including a deceased person.

  16. plunger says:

    Did the GOP simply tell Holder that they would refuse to confirm him unless they received assurances that he would refrain from prosecuting torture cases, or did engage in blackmail under the DC Statutes, explaining to him that they would reveal secrets about Holder thus far not revealed to the public relative to his collaboration with Israeli interests in the Lewinsky investigation?

    Pay for play?

  17. wigwam says:

    SOUNDS LIKE A CRIME WAS COMMITTED IF TRUE

    I, sure as hell, hope it’s a crime, and if it’s not, it should be.

    But frankly, I think this is yet another 180 by Obama, just like he did on FISA. Recall that in April Obama told Wil Bunch:

    What I would want to do is to have my Justice Department and my Attorney General immediately review the information that’s already there and to find out are there inquiries that need to be pursued. I can’t prejudge that because we don’t have access to all the material right now. I think that you are right, if crimes have been committed, they should be investigated. You’re also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt because I think we’ve got too many problems we’ve got to solve.

    So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment — I would want to find out directly from my Attorney General — having pursued, having looked at what’s out there right now — are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies. And I think it’s important– one of the things we’ve got to figure out in our political culture generally is distinguishing betyween really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity. You know, I often get questions about impeachment at town hall meetings and I’ve said that is not something I think would be fruitful to pursue because I think that impeachment is something that should be reserved for exceptional circumstances. Now, if I found out that there were high officials who knowingly, consciously broke existing laws, engaged in coverups of those crimes with knowledge forefront, then I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody above the law — and I think that’s roughly how I would look at it.

    • Dismayed says:

      The think is, I think the president just got a lesson today in how much Retardicans are willing to work with the other party. If they aren’t willing to cooperate legislatively, there ain’t much motivation not to procecute.

      That republican party is one nasty buch of personalities. Just a bunch of Phlegm-bots.

      The war crimes need to be addressed, if a couple of big dems go down as well, so-be-it. Maybe we’ll get lucky and vichi-nancy and vichi-harry will go down with them.

  18. Jkat says:

    torture is a crime under black letter US law … and also anathema to our mores .. our national culture ..and our history .. not to mention we’re obligated by treaty .. UNCAT .. to not participate in torture .. nor countenence those who do ..

    it’s a simple matter of law .. and it has no relation to who the violators are .. or what rank they hold ..

    in the sense of fair flay .. at the VERY least .. if we’re not going after the torturing lying mudderfluckers who instituted the program .. then we should damn well pardon all the little fish locked up in leavenworth prison for carrying out the orders the top dogs issued ..

    we are a country of laws .. the damn politicians shouldn’t get a free pass or a get out of jail free card when they violate the laws they are sworn and constitutionally obligated to uphold ..

  19. TheraP says:

    Wait a minute:

    he won’t prosecute CIA officers or political appointees who were involved in the Bush administration’s policy of “enhanced interrogations.”

    That suggests to me they are not pulling any punches about investigating and prosecuting the bush and cheney.

    Nevertheless the Principals and those who “legitimized” war crimes (bush, yoo, cheny, rumsfeld and their cronies at the top) must be served a huge dose of the Justice they denied to others!

    First of all, I’m not trusting what the repubs themselves tell us. And next, even if true, it turns on the meaning of “political appointees.”

  20. plunger says:

    Clearly there is a conspiracy by the Republican party to obstruct the Obama Administration, not only from pursuing justice, but from accomplishing anything. Consider all of this in the broader context of our present economic crisis (and who actually caused it – the international bankers:

    Ron Paul is apparently not part of the conspiracy that GW Bush helped to facilitate on behalf of his father, GHW Bush along with his partners, Cheney and Rumsfeld and Ken Lay – who in turn were operating under the orders of their boss, David Rockefeller, in concert with The Crown, the Rothschilds, Queen Beatrix and many other globalist coconspirators who meet annually to plot their schemes at their Bilderberg meetings:

    http://www.google.com/search?h…..tnG=Search

    http://www.libertylobby.org/ar…..lders.html

    The conspiracy involves taking down the entire global economic structure, and David Rockefeller is its leader in the US. Guess who controls the Federal Reserve, the IRS, the Treasury, the CFR, The Trilateral Commission, who is allowed into the political arena and what you see on the TeeVee? Alan Greenspan was the prime facilitator of the destruction of the global economy on behalf of David Rockefeller and his global coconspirators (who own the other “central banks” around the globe). They all control the IMF and the World Bank – and thereby, the price of oil, the interest rates, and the world. ALL markets are manipulated by them. There is no actual “market.” It’s all an illusion. There’s no money in there.

    The “money” being created from thin air by the Federal Reserve (a private bank controlled by Rockefeller and overseen by his lieutenants like Timothy Geithner – former New York FED head and now your new Treasury Secretary) is simply a debt owed with interest by your daughters and their daughters. Your daughters had no vested interest in saving Merrill Lynch, but they will have paid $21 a share to acquire it – through Bank Of America – whose CEO was told by Treasury Secretary (Rockefeller/Goldman Sachs Agent) Hank Paulson to go ahead with the acquisition “for the good of the country” with the promise that the Treasury (your daughters) would backstop the deal in the event it was later discovered that there were billions of fraudulent debt hidden off Merrill’s books.

    Rockefeller controls Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase (as well as Exxon Mobil and the rest of the world). Watch how things shake out, who winds up with the good assets and who winds up with the shit. They are discussing creation of a “bad bank” to dump all of the bad debts into in order to cleanse the books of their pals in the banking system.

    Your daughters are the owners of the new “Bad Bank” otherwise known as the FDIC, while the globalists tip the entire table in their direction, swallowing all of the companies and assets of value while diverting the toxic Derivatives, Collateralized Debt Obligations and worthless paper to your daughters.

    The bankers control EVERYTHING. Particularly the lies being told daily to you in the media. The more debt that they can help to create, at interest, the more money and control they enjoy. Creating wars is the most valuable pursuit they enjoy. Be sure to thank the treasonous Mr. Rockefeller for 9/11 and all that has followed. If you want your money back, he’s the one who has it.

  21. wigwam says:

    Jonathan Turley thinks that the lower level torturers can use the estoppel defense if they are prosecuted. Per the wikipedia:

    In The Law relating to Estoppel by Representation, 4th edition, 2004 at para I.2.2, Spencer Bower defines estoppel by representation of fact as follows:

    Where one person (‘the representor’) has made a representation of fact to another person (‘the representee’) in words or by acts or conduct, or (being under a duty to the representee to speak or act) by silence or inaction, with the intention (actual or presumptive) and with the result of inducing the representee on the faith of such representation to alter his position to his detriment, the representor, in any litigation which may afterwards take place between him and the representee, is estopped, as against the representee, from making, or attempting to establish by evidence, any averment substantially at variance with his former representation, if the representee at the proper time, and in proper manner, objects thereto.

    • LabDancer says:

      Estoppel is a commercial concept, not a criminal one. I expect Turley means it as an analogy – otherwise he, like we all do sometimes, has given in to a ‘moment’ of some kind. As an analogy, it does have some value, because it might help explain the distinction among “I vass yoost vollowing orders” – which Nuremburg was supposed to kill off – and the classic insanity defense of I killed my entire family and ate some and put the rest up as preserves because they all turned into feedlot animals – and acting within reason – and the parameters of what’s legal in response to an order framed as within the factual context that’s a lie.

  22. BoxTurtle says:

    I can only hope that one of Bond or Holder is lying.

    I hear a lot about not prosecuting the grunts and mid-level people as they were just following orders and DOJ had declared it legal.

    Prosecute them. Let the judge decide the correct sentence. For some, it might be a plea deal. Some might get time served and court costs. Some might get life. But we simply CAN’T cover it up and pretend it didn’t happen.

    Boxturtle (Still thinks of Cheney and Bush being perpwalked across the tarmac at the Hague)

    • WilliamOckham says:

      Probably Bond, given his track record. Holder should be forced to walk this back before a final vote on his nomination. He will have to walk it back at some point. I suspect Kit Bond was just hearing what he wants to hear when Holder was mouthing his typically non-committal line (which, in all honestly is probably the way he should handle it).

      • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

        I actually see it more darkly.
        Who are Rove, Chertoff, Alice Fisher, Yoo, et al most worried about? Holder.

        Probably Bond heard ‘what he wanted to hear’, in order to be able to publicly say he’d vote for Holder. Bond needed cover, and he needed to convince himself that Holder would protect the people that Bond has an interest in protecting (IIRC, one of Bond’s former employees is a key target in the Abramoff disaster).

        Meanwhile, this shows up — at Wingnut Central.

        When a cuckoo plants her child in the nest of another bird, she creates a distraction to lure other birds away from the source of her ‘crime’. Looks like the wingnuts are creating a setup designed to try and squeeze Holder’s ‘gentlemanly parts’ in a vice. And then, they’ll call him a liar — or untrustworthy — when he tells his version of the tale.

        If Holder didn’t see this setup coming, WTF is he doing as AG?

        They’re setting him up to look unreliable and untrustworthy.

        Who wins from that setup?
        K-k-k-karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Michael Chertoff, etc…

        These people are really, really screwed up.
        And Bond just showed that he’s either with them, or a tool of them. Stupid of Bond, IMVHO.

  23. JimWhite says:

    Pat Leahy’s office was very interested in the Washington Times story. They also transferred me to the SJC office who took down the web address and forwarded it to the proper folks for action. I told them that if this is true, we need Bond’s resignation and Holder’s withdrawal. They agreed in both offices that this is a huge problem if real.

    I got cut off from Bond’s office when I asked them when we would have Bond’s resignation.

    Reid’s office was the usual void.

  24. FrankProbst says:

    They’ll try to kill the prosecutions again. This was only the most recent move.

    What I think Obama gets–and the Republicans miss–is that whether or not we prosecute is largely out of our hands. The big issue is what’s going to come out, and how soon we’re going to hear about it all. I suspect that the phones at “The New Yorker” have been ringing off the hook in the last week, and keep in mind that one of Bush’s own people was willing to call it torture on the record with Bob Woodward WHILE BUSH WAS STILL IN OFFICE. I think that everything that happened is going to be cataloged, in painstaking detail, over the next year or two. Obama knows this, which is why he’s (mostly) picking people who are not tainted by torture. The decision to prosecute is going to be made largely depending on how the international community (not the mention the American public) reacts to whatever turns up.

    • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

      I suspect that the phones at “The New Yorker” have been ringing off the hook in the last week, and keep in mind that one of Bush’s own people was willing to call it torture on the record with Bob Woodward WHILE BUSH WAS STILL IN OFFICE. I think that everything that happened is going to be cataloged, in painstaking detail, over the next year or two.

      I’m of the same view, FWIW.
      We also don’t yet know the foreign policy implications of what these revelations will produce.

      Sometimes, Karma seems to like toying with people and stringing them out, but she gets her due over time.

    • jdmckay says:

      I think that everything that happened is going to be cataloged, in painstaking detail, over the next year or two. Obama knows this, which is why he’s (mostly) picking people who are not tainted by torture.

      Given current circumstances that BO faces in ME, not to mention full frontal GOP assault on multiple fronts, 2 years is an awful long time to remain bogged down in the muck.

      The decision to prosecute is going to be made largely depending on how the international community (not the mention the American public) reacts to whatever turns up.

      Perhaps.

      But why? Are the underlying principles on this whole thing so opaque that they need to “evolve”? Or are they established by action and commitment… in this case, of our prez & federal government?

      I certainly want BO to succeed. But IMO, after a couple initial encouraging statements his first couple days, his ambiguity on most everything in lieu of very clear statements of purpose and subsequent actions is going to stagnate change & progress.

      BushCo’s torture administration is but one element in the entire hierarchy of GWOT implementation, and it’s been beyond dismal failure in every regard: from lies (OSP) about Iraq Intel, to crony loyalists installed in CPA, to “solution to the Palestinian problem runs through Baghdad”, to crumbling Afghanistan/Pakistan and Taliban resurgence, and after + $1t dropped into Iraq to create essentially an Islamic state far more loyal to Iran than US…

      My God, this entire Neocon/Bush/GOP construct is beyond absurd… it’s a nightmare. The whole torture thing is just one part.

      What does Obama believe? What is he going to stand on? Or does he think he must wait until consensus emerges?

      And if so, what if it doesn’t… what if constant MSM/repub messaging metastasizes in public opinion?… it’s not like that’s never happened before if you know what I mean.

      I’m very, very disappointed in his lack of clarity… whether this issue, TARP, “stimulus” plan….

      Obama has the truth on his side, he has a public willing to buy into real change, yet he’s playing nice w/all the idiots who got us into all these messes… the “personal responsibility” crowd, and they’re knee capping him at every turn.

      Quagmire alert!!!

      • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

        Obama has the truth on his side, he has a public willing to buy into real change, yet he’s playing nice w/all the idiots who got us into all these messes… the “personal responsibility” crowd, and they’re knee capping him at every turn.

        This is one possibility, but I’m beginning to think something else is in the early stages of formation: people have said over the past couple of years that they HATE the uber-partisanship in DC (and everywhere). I don’t impute BO’s actions to cynicism; I think that he’s overcome so many obstacles in his life, and he is so clear about who he is, that it’s in character for him to reach out to the Rs.

        And watch them bite the hand that’s trying to help them.
        It’s amazing to me.
        Like Dismayed@79:

        I’m more sick of the GOP shit hooks now than I was before the election, They are just such a bunch of simps, and I want some Blue Dog heads on some platters next election.

        The Dems are not being partisan.
        The R’s are being a bunch of spoiled, weenie, pansies.

        What I’m finding really fascinating is to see how unrepentant, how unable to adapt to changed circumstances, and how rigid the Rs are these days. They’re like the political version of John Thain and Paulson and the Wall Streeters — thinking they’re ‘too big to fail’, and thinking they still call the shots.

        Their continuing denial is sinking them.
        But I have zero respect for the media enablers who have them on wayyyyyyy too much of the time blathering their flawed, clearly not-going-to-work delusions.
        The MSM needs to really either nail the Republican asses to the wall on their responses, or else find guests (like Robert Reich and Dean Baker) whose descriptions of reality have a lot more traction, plus track records.

  25. JohnLopresti says:

    I wonder if Holder might launch a plan with DJohnsen to begin an OLC blog. I think they might have some good law bloggers in that department, Real Soon Now.

    They have a current events section containing documents like this from exAG Mukasey advising congress to refrain from asking OLC to appear more often and with more specific testimony about OLC’s work.

  26. Jkat says:

    how can this happen ?? how can anyone extract a promise from a prospective official which ..in effect.. says the official agrees in advance to NOT perform his/her duties ??

    can one of you lawyers tell me why we can’t simply file a writ of mandamus on the AG … forcing him to “do his duty” under the laws … ??

    surely multiple felonies ..and even homocides committed on the persons in our custody .. can’t be a matter of prosecutorial discretion .. ??

    ummmm.. what banana republic are we living in ??

  27. FormerFed says:

    Damn, I really do love this blog!!! I think the new OLC needs to have EW up on their scrolls all day long!!!

    Keep up the great work everyone.

  28. 4jkb4ia says:

    (reply to BSL@38)
    (Elements of his resume include being a former Governor of Missouri and ranking minority member of the Intelligence Committee)
    (I have no confidence that Kit Bond did not get whatever he heard from Holder completely confused)
    (No! Didn’t call yet! Gratified the phones are being swamped!)

  29. Dismayed says:

    Oh my god! That was great! And the guy’s right.

    I really think if Obama want’s to kick some Rich ASS he’ll have the people behind him. People have woken up to the class war that was declared on the rest of us by the rich, and it looks like we’re ready to fight.

    I’m more sick of the GOP shit hooks now than I was before the election, They are just such a bunch of simps, and I want some Blue Dog heads on some platters next election.

    Thanks for that. Cracked me up.

  30. Leen says:

    Whitehouse “it needs badly to be put right” We are watching, pushing and praying for accountability.

    Eric Holder please review the facts of the intelligence in the run up to the war based on a “pack of lies”, torture, wiretapping, dismissal of lawyers in the Dept of Justice.

    Our nation both Republicans, Democrats, Independents have little to no faith that our Justice system is fair

  31. jdmckay says:

    I don’t impute BO’s actions to cynicism; I think that he’s overcome so many obstacles in his life, and he is so clear about who he is, that it’s in character for him to reach out to the Rs.

    That’s fine.

    But he’s asking them for support and agreement w/out clearly articulating establishment of principles, goals & actions. Rather he’s, at best, sent mixed signals on torture & legal ramifications, giving more tax breaks in “stimulus” when they clearly haven’t accomplished what we need now… long list.

    I recall several months ago Eric Cantor’s presser claiming congressional repub’s stand for offshore drilling was reason oil prices began to drop. I mean, sheesh… this is the mentality of those K-street idiots Obama’s trying to reason with. And Cantor’s schpeel pretty much par for the course from these guys. They’re economic policy is and has been: give their largest biz donors whatever they want.

    Period.

    Repubs have pushed policy on every front so far out into the nether-world, that intelligent people w/a modicum of moral grounding would consider gaining these guy’s agreement more important than articulating sound vision… I don’t get it.

    It’s like going to the devil for forgiveness.

    Just in BO’s short tenure, repubs have demonstrated that gaining a rhetorical edge is still primary. But giving serious consideration to virtually cascading econ failure and the reasons for it… no evidence they are intent (much less capable) of it. Their actions are the same as Gingrich trained ‘em to do 14 yrs ago: divide and conquer.

    Or in other words, nothing’s changed.

    Seems to me playing ball w/these guys is a guaranteed lowering of the bar.

    Obama’s success (or lack thereoff) is going to come from US citizens, should be succeed in getting & keeping a critical mass of ‘em behind his policies. It is those folks who he should be addressing, in detail. To date, he’s given more face time to Krauthammer & G. Will than his voting public.

    Time has apt summary of Paulson/Fed’s foibles in dealing w/us econ “crisis” to date in current issue:

    Since October, the government has deposited $165 billion into the accounts of the nation’s eight largest banks. Yet those same financial firms are now worth $418 billion less than they were four months ago, and the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the government’s preferred shares are worth at least $20 billion less. In Wall Street terms, that’s throwing good money after bad. All told, the government’s annualized rate of return on its investment in the nation’s largest banks is -1,096%. That’s well beyond Bernie Madoff territory; he topped out at a mere -100%.

    I’ve read the stimulus. And unfortunately conservative rags are correct: it’s a non-focused mish mash of spending for all kinds of nice things, but the country is broke and we can’t afford all that crap. BO needs a lightning bolt. This proposal looks more like jumper cables.