The CIA Won’t Give Abu Zubaydah His Own Diaries

When Abu Zubaydah had his Combat Status Review Tribunal hearing on March 27, 2007, the President of the tribunal admitted that the government could not or would not produce key volumes of Abu Zubaydah’s diaries in preparation for the hearing.

From the evidence request I received, again, from your Personal Representative, you believe the statements in the Summary of Evidence document that you provided that–excuse me, that you were provided are a misrepresentation of what you actually wrote in your diary. I reviewed the Summary of Evidence document and noted that there were at least three items listed which specifically cited your diary as the source of the information. Each of these items referenced operational plans and actions which were associated with enemy forces of particular interest to the Tribunal. It would be helpful for the Tribunal to review the source document of these statements and hear your representation of what you wrote in your diary. I therefore found your diary request relevant. On February 22nd, I ordered the production of your diary. As of today, the government has produced portions of your diary. These have been provided to your Personal Representative to prepare for the Tribunal’s hearing today. I understand your statements provided today or the evidence previously provided will refer and provide us some of those diary entries for us to consider. I do need to address one additional matter regarding your diary. There are two volumes of your diary in U.S. Government custody: volumes five and six. The government has made a diligent effort to produce those volumes for us today but–; however, they have not been located. So they are not available for us during this hearing. I therefore find that the volumes five and six are not available for us during this hearing. Given this situation, the Tribunal will consider your statements if you wish to make any, of what you believe the diary entries represent.

According to Abu Zubaydah, one thing included in the parts of the diary not turned over includes a condemnation of 9/11 and of the killing of innocent children, which violates the tenets of Islam.

I can’t remember exactly what you talk about in my diary. I know exactly what I wrote. — writ wrote [asks for correction from Linguist] –One part I do remember, I write against eleven September.

[snip]

They killing of our child so we not care to killing their child; it’s not allowed in Islam. I have it exactly, if you read my diary nice, you will understand my idea nice.

Since two years and one Presidential election have passed since that CSRT, and since we’ve been talking about evidence the CIA destroyed, I thought I’d check to see whether those diary sections still haven’t been turned over. Not only haven’t they been turned over, but neither have key parts of AZ’s diary that would describe the torture he underwent at the hands of the CIA’s contractors (as well as some drawings, the description of which has been redacted). 

In January, AZ’s lawyers moved to get a range of evidence from the government, include volumes 5 and 6 (described above),  but also volumes 7 though 9, written while in CIA custody.

Long after his 1992 [head] injury, once Petitioner had recovered the ability to speak and write, he began to keep a diary. It is his memory. Without it, he is lost. 

To date, Petitioner has completed eleven volumes of his diary, each written in a slender, bound notebook. He currently is writing volume 12. He wrote the first six volumes before his March 2002 arrest. Volumes 7 through 9 were drafted while Petitioner was in CIA custody. Volumes 10 and 11 were completed in DoD custody at Guatanamo, after September 2006; only these last two volumes, written after Petitioner was transferred from CIA to DoD custody, were given to counsel in late 2008 by Petitioner because they were in his possession. At the present time, Petitioner has access to volumes 1 – 4 in his cell, and the Government and CIA are wrongfully denying Petitioner access to volumes 5 – 9, which, arguably, are most relevant to issues that are likely to arise before this Court in connection with Petitioner’s defense. Volumes 5 and 6 were drafted before Petitioner’s arrest and date most closely to the time of his arrest. They are critically important to show what Petitioner was doing during this time frame and contain exculpatory evidence. For example, volumes 7 – 9 were drafted while petitioner was in CIA custody and recount his torture and damaging exculpatory admissions made by Petitioner’s torturers and other CIA officials. [my emphasis]

The filing goes on to note that:

  • English translations of his diary were quoted in his CSRT; AZ maintains the translations are inaccurate, but the government has not turned over those translations
  • CIA operatives interrogated AZ about his diaries
  • The government had allowed AZ to keep his diaries–until he got put in Gitmo (for what looks like a second time), when they were taken away from him
  • The military has no objection to giving AZ his diaries, but CIA has refused to turn them over

The whole filing is worth reading for the Kafkaesque situation it describes, in which AZ, whose memory is described to be completely dysfunctional, has been refused the sole record he has of the events of which he has been accused, even though at least three of those accusations come directly from his diary.

And of course, as with the torture tapes, the CIA refuses to make available the evidence of what they did to AZ. 

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77 replies
      • phred says:

        Oh no, I would never think such a thing, I’m sure they are lying around CIA somewhere… They are the Central Intelligence Agency after all. They are very competent people, very organized, they keep tracks of lots and lots of information in order to distill it all down into a coherent narrative. They know how to put their finger on any item at a moments notice… Or not.

        Incompetent or criminal?

        By the way EW, it’s tenet, not tenant. Makes the former CIA chief’s name a bit ironic, doesn’t it? ; )

          • phred says:

            Nah, that was just a homonym-induced slip of the fingers, happens to me all the time ; ) It still kills me though that someone as unprincipled as George has the last name of Tenet.

        • Jeff Kaye says:

          If the CIA has them, they are buried in a vault so low, not even Panetta would be allowed to access it.

          My guess is that they are destroyed, like the tapes. Destruction of records pertaining to CIA operations is nothing new. The classic case study of this would be the MKULTRA files. The following is from a memo by Members of the [President Clinton’s] Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments to Advisory Committee Staff (6/27/94):

          MKULTRA was the subject of extensive internal, congressional, and outside investigations in the 1970s. In 1973, the CIA purposefully destroyed most of the MKULTRA files concerning its research and testing on human behavior. In 1977, the agency uncovered additional MKULTRA files in the budget and fiscal records that were not indexed under the name MKULTRA. These documents detailed over 150 subprojects that the CIA funded in this area, but no evidence was uncovered at that time concerning the use of radiation….

          Most of the MKULTRA records were deliberately destroyed in 1973 by the order of then DCI Richard Helms, who waived the internal CIA regulation (CSI-7O-l0) governing retirement of inactive records.4 {4 Helms testified that he agreed to destroy the records because “there had been relationships with outsiders in government agencies and other organizations and that these would be sensitive in this kind of a thing but that since the program was over and finished and done with, we thought we would just get rid of files as well, so that anybody who assisted us in the past would not be subject to follow-up questions, embarrassment, if you will.” Church Committee, Book I, at 404.} The Church Committee found some records, but also noted that the practice of MKULTRA at the time was “to maintain no records of the planning and approval of test programs.” Church Committee, Book I, at 406. MKULTRA itself was technically closed out in 1964, but some of its work was transferred to the Office of Research and Development (ORD) within the DS&T under the name MKSEARCH and continued into the l97Os.5 {5 John Marks, in The Search for the “Manchurian Candidate” cited one ORD project that involved bombarding “bacteria with ultraviolet radiation in order to create deviant strains.”}

          In other words, the MKULTRA program would have gone unknown and unnoticed, if some of the files hadn’t escaped destruction because of a quirk of the filing system. Note, too, that the “the practice of MKULTRA at the time was ‘to maintain no records of the planning and approval of test programs.’” It is reasonable to assume that the same SOP pertains in the case of the torture program.

          At a 1977 hearing before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Senator Kennedy noted of the destruction of the MKULTRA documents:

          Perhaps most disturbing of all was the fact that the extent of experimentation on human subjects was unknown. The records of all these activities were destroyed in January 1973, at the instruction of then CIA Director Richard Helms. In spite of persistent inquiries by both the Health Subcommittee and the Intelligence Committee, no additional records or information were forthcoming. And no one — no single individual — could be found who remembered the details, not the Director of the CIA, who ordered the documents destroyed, not the official responsible for the program, nor any of his associates.

          Note that, even when there was clear evidence — and Helms would testify under oath regarding this — that the Director of the CIA himself had destroyed documents, nothing was really done about it. Now, that was over 30 years ago, and this is a different time… or is it?

          For those interested in the history of this subject, there was a NY Times article in Sept. 1977 that told a slightly different story, placing responsibility of the destruction of the MKULTRA files on Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, the head of Technical Services Division, CIA (quoted from blog post by Michael Otterman):

          Dr. Gottlieb said he had destroyed the files on his own initiative and not, as was previously reported, under orders from Richard Helms, then Director of Central Intelligence. Mr. Helms testified under oath in 1975 that he never ordered the destruction of the drug records.

          A document that came to light in today’s hearing indicated that Dr. Gottlieb’s deputy had attempted to stop the destruction of these files. Asked about this, Dr. Gottlieb replied, “I can’t recall”.

          This wasn’t the first time that Helms was implicated in the destruction of relevant documents. A similar thing happened over the scandal of CIA domestic spying on antiwar activists. This is from an interview Helms did with David Frost in 1978 (as posted in “adapted” form at the CIA’s website):

          Do you agree with the Rockefeller Commission’s view that you exercised poor judgment in January of ‘73 by destroying documents that might have contained evidence?

          Tapes-not documents-were destroyed. No, I don’t agree.

          One recorder was attached to my telephone and the other could be used to record conversations in my office. Neither, may I say, was activated by sound; both required the pushing of a button.

          These tapes contained material having to do with foreign policy and US intelligence; they would have been damaging to our foreign policy, if they had gotten into the public domain. I thought that then, I think so now.

          • phred says:

            Thanks for the detailed comment on the CIA’s tendency to destroy inconvenient records. I trust you didn’t take my original comment seriously : )

            However, I am serious when I keep stressing the incompetence v. willful destruction of evidence choice here. I think this needs to be pointed out repeatedly. Either the CIA is incompetent or they are corrupt/criminal. This of course begs the question of why we tolerate their existence. They do a lousy job and they break the law on a whim. Our country would be better served without them.

            You and I both hold the view that the CIA is a lawless organization, but it doesn’t hurt to point out to the CIA’s defenders that if the CIA isn’t lawless, then it is certainly incompetent. Either way, it is an agency that serves no useful purpose and therefore should be disbanded.

            • Jeff Kaye says:

              Not taken seriously. It was the springboard for me to kind of relook up this material, and then I just put it out there b/c I think it’s relevant.

              But here is one serious thought (not heavy, but serious): I don’t think it makes sense to divide our characterization of the CIA into either criminal or incompetent. It’s both of these, some of the time, i.e., not all of the time. The criminality stems from its service to a hegemonic foreign policy and the fact they have been allowed to operate in secret, bringing out all the worst traits in human nature, and anathema to good organizational standards.

              The latter is one major reason they are often inept: responsibility is not delegated, and accountability isn’t structured as in a normal institution (operating under decent organizational norms). As a result, corruption in all its sundry forms has crept in over the decades, culminating in the CIA contractors fiasco. We have yet, as this scandal unfolds, to touch upon the smarmy and violent milieu out of which Mitchell and Jessen arose.

              The final problem is structural, as the CIA has two primary tasks: intelligence analysis and covert operations. The two are not compatible, and the former has suffered at the hands of the latter over the years, especially financially. To some degree, the same problems have infected other U.S. intelligence agencies, although I really only have the NSA in mind as I type this.

              So, the CIA is neither criminal or inept. But it has engaged in multiple, terrible crimes, and has shown tremendous incompetence on numerous occasions. We must go after each, respectively. I do think, though, that the CIA is an organizational nightmare, and that its secret function, in particular covert action, is incompatible with an open society or a democracy.

      • freepatriot says:

        I’m starting a poll pool right now: any bets that the CIA destroyed his diary in, say, November 2005? One spot per day, $5 a spot, send your picks and your cash (in God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash) to The Freepatriot fund, 1060 w addison st, Chicago Illinois, 60613

        for amusement only

        ain’t it amusing how I got this money ???

        there

        fixed it for ya

        dis whole bookie thing ain’t as easy as it looks, huh ???

        btw, the American Bookie’s Union says you dint pay yer dues this week …

          • Rayne says:

            Yeah, I hear you, although that does look like a much bigger fire than I thought; I’d never seen that Rolling Stone photo.

            For all we know the diary/ies were dropped into the ocean somewhere between one of the black sites, and goodness knows when…

    • freepatriot says:

      Major CYA by the CIA

      CYA ???

      that’s CYA ???

      jebus

      the cia really is incompetent

      I’ve come up with better bullshit that this while I was under the influence of MANY mind altering substances

      maybe the cia should hire some pot heads to think up some better lies

      • AZ Matt says:

        Cover Your Ass

        And From Raw Story:

        Military attorney: Waterboarding is ‘tip of the iceberg’

        Bradley told CNN that when she was first assigned to represent Mohamed, she did not question he was a hardened terrorist, because “my government was saying these were the worst of the worst.” However, she now says, “There’s no reliable evidence that Mr. Mohamed was going to do anything to the United States.”

        According to Bradley, when Mohamed was first held at a CIA prison in Morocco, “They started this monthly treatment where they would come in with a scalpel or a razor type of instrument and they would slash his genitals, just with small cuts.”

        Following that torture, Mohamed confessed that he had attended an al Qaeda training camp and discussed plans to make a dirty bomb. He also answered “No” to the question, “While in U.S. military custody have you been treated in any way that you would consider abusive?”

        Now Bradley believes, “This has nothing to do about national security, it has to do with national embarrassment.”

        • freepatriot says:

          I know WHY they’re covering their ass

          I just figure that the cia should be able to do a better job than this

          I’m really disappointed by the quality of the bullshit emanating from langly virgina

          I’m paying these schmucks for this ???

          to semi-quote Krusty the Klown:

          I could pull a better lie outta my (oooops) Hey Hey Kids …

            • freepatriot says:

              Keystone Kops have nothing on the CIA!

              yeah, what can ya say

              copyrights expire

              and the repuglitards are free to immitate the three stooges, the cia can rip off the keystone cops

              but stealing Wile E Coyote’s act ???

              that’s going too far

        • freepatriot says:

          Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Yvonne Bradley

          langley, we’ve had another problem …

  1. radiofreewill says:

    I’m with you, EW!

    If you are going to destroy the Torture Tapes, then why not also destroy the Torture Diaries that go with them?

    • Larue says:

      Somewhere, there are at LEAST one final copy or original of this stuff.

      Cheney’s vault, I’d guess. Along with the complicit docs that show Dem’s were in on it (ain’t that arguement lookin a bit slim lately).

      But I honestly believe there’s a copy of all docs, on a drive, somewhere . . . . the CIA, and other institutions of largesse, just can’t ever seem to destroy ALL the evidence . . . they keep it all for leverage. Who has it, is the question. And that person who has it, needs it badly. Roads lead to Cheney . . . . lots, and lots of roads, lead to Darth.

      Rock on Mz. Wheeler . . . . bring these fucks to the light of our day.

  2. dosido says:

    I’m reading up on my CIA and culture of failure, and also, about the good germans who were a-OK with Nazi solutions.

    So when I read the above narrative about the Tribunal, it’s pretty easy to make the connection to past miscarriages of justice and the wholesale warehousing of people painted and perceived as less than human.

    Makes me very sad and angry that we are the transgressors who have lost our humanity.

  3. plunger says:

    Hey Phil (Graham):

    You’d better copy your own diaries and put that copy in a safe place before they come for you. It sure looks like the truth (those who know it, and write it down) is the enemy of the CIA.

    For those who have not yet seen it, Ray McGovern acknowledged this weekend that there are actually two CIAs (a good one, and a bad one):

    The Video is here.

    • freepatriot says:

      Dude, time to change the tin foil

      Bob Graham = anal note taking Democratic Senator

      phil gramm = repuglitarded deregulation guru senator

      keep it straight

      but since you mention it, I wouldn’t mind a peek at phil gramm’s diaries too

      an don’t interpret this correction as an endorsement

        • Larue says:

          It’s a tough crowd in here . . . loveable, and precise, but tough.

          Loosen them up with cocktails, a smoke or two, and they’re up for the good fight, though . . .

          Good folks . . .*G*

  4. Quebecois says:

    I believe that all this criminality will lead to Cheney in the end.

    I wonder how many diaries fit in a man size safe?

    Just sayin…

    • Larue says:

      Yes. But PNAC is the other part . . . and then, there’s their water carriers . . . all guilty, guilty, and guilty.

  5. bobschacht says:

    Thanks again, EW!

    There need to be consequences for misbehavior. Pits of lawlessness within our own government need to be thoroughly cleaned out and set right. Otherwise, they remain festering cancers.

    Bob in HI

  6. Mary says:

    I don’t think that they will end up “destroyed”

    I do think that there has been a lotta time for forgery.

  7. scribe says:

    I, for one, would love to read the Report of Survey that they should have done on this property, which apparently was lost, destroyed, or otherwise improperly disposed of. Something to FOIA – they have to (if they are to account for lost property) do a Report of Survey.

    This handy guide sets out, in thumbnail, what an investigating officer is supposed to do when handed the dreaded “Report of Survey” forms and appointment as “Survey Officer”:

    Upon appointment as a survey officer, your primary military duty becomes the completion of the report of survey. As a survey officer, you investigate and analyze the facts surrounding the loss, damage, or destruction of government property and recommend whether to assess liability against someone responsible for the property. You may recommend liability against a person only if the evidence indicates that it is more likely than not that the negligence or willful misconduct of that person proximately caused the loss. Throughout this guide, the term “loss” includes a loss of, damage to, or destruction of government property, or a loss of accountability of such property.

    Determining whether there has been a loss caused by a person’s negligence or willful misconduct is the primary goal of the report of survey system. To accomplish this task, you must investigate the facts, analyze the evidence, and prepare the report of survey. After you have completed the report of survey, you should submit it for legal review and then forward it and the legal review to the appointing authority. ….

    C. Approach to the Investigation

    You should approach your investigation with an open mind, without any preconceived ideas regarding who or what caused the loss. You must strive to find the truth. A thorough investigation may establish that financial liability should be assessed, should not be assessed, or should be assessed against a person other than the one identified in the original report. You should use the information provided in the report as a starting point, but you must conduct your own independent investigation to determine whether government property has been lost, damaged, or destroyed, and whether liability should be assessed, and if so, against whom.

    1. Attempt to Locate Lost Property.
    You should always attempt to find lost property. The scope of the search depends on the type of property and how and where it was lost. You should attach as an exhibit a statement documenting your efforts and the efforts made by others to locate the lost property. If practical, you should visit the site of the loss and talk to others who were in the area at the time of the loss.
    2. Recovering Property During Investigation.
    If all of the property listed on the report is recovered during your investigation, notify the appointing authority of the discovery and request in writing that the accountable officer re-establish accountability. Your job is done once the accountable officer verifies the complete recovery and you attach his verification memorandum as an exhibit to the report of survey.

    C. Witness Testimony

    1. Whom to Interview.
    You should interview and obtain sworn statements from each person whose testimony may help determine the cause of, or responsibility for, the loss. Begin by interviewing the individuals who are most directly connected to the lost, damaged, or destroyed property, such as those identified in block 11. They will often reveal other individuals whom you should interview, such as the hand receipt holder, subhand receipt holders, and other individuals who were responsible for the property or who have knowledge of the circumstances surrounding its loss.
    2. Witness Statements.
    You should record the substance of each interview on DA Form 2823, “Sworn Statement.” If DA Form 2823 is not available, use plain bond or ruled paper and type or legibly print the word “CERTIFICATE” across the top of the paper. Both DA Form 2823 and its substitute must be dated and signed under oath by the individual making the statement. As a survey officer, you may administer this oath, printed on the DA Form 2823:

    I kinda doubt that any such report of survey was ever done and, if it was, it was a total whitewash.

    Speaking as someone who did – and hated doing – reports of survey, all I can say is that I hope the next guy who blows up a tank engine, loses/sells his field gear, or breaks something expensive has the balls to remind the survey officer trying to charge him for breaking/losing that property that, under the Obama Administration, we look forward and not backward, and do not take retribution but rather make sure things work better in the future.

      • scribe says:

        I’m sure that CIA has an analogous set of regulations – if it’s a government department and it has property for which it must account, it has some form of report of survey. Ask Dusty Foggo and his buying stuff for CIA – he made piles of graft out of being the Executive Director, and that was … property acquisition and management for CIA.

  8. BillE says:

    After the destroyed AZ’s body and mind then they forge diary’s that say its all hunky dory. Combine that with the fire in Cheney’s office and viola.

  9. SparklestheIguana says:

    Darrell Issa is asking the FBI to probe Pelosi’s charges that the CIA lied.

    But Michael Gerson prefers his own reality: “Democrats’ Assault on the CIA”…..

  10. freepatriot says:

    and in HONOR of modo

    Maureen Dowd has a new column up, so if you wrote about Dick Cheney this week, check and see if she stole your material.

    I didn’t copy and paste that from DailyKos. a friend told me that, and I typed the words all by my lil self

    (duckin & runnin)

  11. TheraP says:

    EW, this is hugely important! From a psychological point of view. Because they did psychological assessments on this man. They used those assessments for several things, to conclude that (a)he had a very strong character and would not break, thereby justifying the need for torture, that (b)torture would not do him long term harm, and also (c)to find his weak points for interrogation under torture. Since the diaries may form much of the raw data psychologists used as the basis of their reports, the absence of this data then calls into question a number of statements made in the Aug 1 2002 memos, which authorized the torture. This galls and irks me no end! Because without the raw data, whether of the tapes or the diaries, you have no evidence to base alternative hypotheses on – in order to assess the psych reports which they used as the basis of the torture memo which particularly addressed his very torture.

    Now, I am not asserting in any way that even if one had the diaries, they would support torture. NO, I’m interested in how that information was usedor rather misused in drawing certain psych assessments.

    Thanks for this important information. It certainly does not assist the psychologists who initiated the “experiments” which are war crimes, both as torture and as “experimenting” on a prisoner without his consent.

    I realize there are also other important reasons this information is invaluable. I’m just addressing the psych value as necessary raw data from which reports would have been/should have been drawn.

    There! Got all that off my chest!

    • DWBartoo says:

      TherP;

      You are knocking them out of the ‘park’, today.

      Another home run!

      I’m on my feet, cheering.

      DW

    • emptywheel says:

      TheraP

      You think that pisses you off?

      You and all the other psych people should read this description of AZ’s medical state from last year.

      It’s not clear how much damage they did during torture (in which case AZ’s medical record would be proof of damage done) and how much damage he had coming in (in which case, it’d be proof he was not fit to be waterboarded, as if anyone is). But in either case, it’s utterly appalling.

  12. fatster says:

    O/T, or back to the bailout, etc. If only!

    Wednesday, May 20, 2009 08:37 PDT
    A watchdog to growl at Wall Street

    “On Tuesday night, reports Bloomberg, all the parties mentioned above [including Volcker and Elizabeth Warren, who have been largely ignored] met together over a dinner hosted by the Treasury Department “to discuss proposals to change financial regulations.”

    . . .

    “. . . [a regulatory commission which is supposedly being considered] , as has been widely noted, is Elizabeth Warren’s brain-child. She first outlined it two years ago in an article for Democracy Journal

    . . .

    ” . . . the obvious choice for the founding head of a future Financial Products Safety Commission would of course be Elizabeth Warren. Imagine if she’d been in place five or six years ago, when the mortgage lending industry started to go nuts.”

    http://www.salon.com/tech/htww….._watchdog/

  13. Mary says:

    More OT – Bush’s PBGC director takes the fifth instead of answering Congressional questions

    Charles E.F. Millard, former PBGC director, today refused to answer questions at a Senate committee hearing concerning his actions in hiring money managers for the agency.

  14. fatster says:

    Good nterview! Makes me wish I had a tee vee service.

    Ex-CIA agent: When did questioning the CIA become anti-American?

    BY DAVID EDWARDS AND MURIEL KANE 

Published: May 20, 2009 
Updated 5 hours ago

    “Former CIA special agent and radio host Jack Rice finds the Republicans’ outrage unconvincing. He told MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann on Tuesday, “What’s extraordinary here is the idea that if you would ever question the CIA, now all of a sudden somehow it’s anti-American.”

    . . .

    “Rice has no illusions about the CIA’s vulnerability to pressure during the Bush administration. “Anybody who believes that an administration can’t push the Agency to do something is really missing the point,” he told Olbermann. “The fact that they can push the Agency and say, ‘This is what I’m looking for’ … will drive them to do certain things that may or may not be true — and that’s a big part of the problem that we’re facing right now.”’

    http://rawstory.com/08/news/20…..-mistakes/

  15. puravida says:

    Well, they were right about one thing. Everything changed on 9/11. Including the right to a fair and speedy trial, the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, the ability of the accused to see evidence presented against him…

    • Mary says:

      the right not to be used in human experimentation, abrogation of the prohibition on buying and selling humans … just a few things gone by the bye. And apparently Obama officials are touting the fact that it’s not like the hearsay rule was ever any kind of American value.

      Things have changed so much after 911 that apparently that we are just now discovering that no one ever really wanted the 6th amendment anyway.

      Reidem & Weep, Part 8,758

      • puravida says:

        Sometimes it’s hard to recognize this country anymore. Bob in HI, can you turn that music up? My sanity’s on its last legs, too. You got any Pagan Babies?

        • fatster says:

          Huh? I thought Reidem & Weep (Mary @ 41} were the publishers of “The Human Race” by Maykit and Whoant (DWBartoo @ 43). No?

          Following your directions now to the Beamer brothers (bmaz will probably think we’re talking about cars). Thnx.

          • bobschacht says:

            bmaz might get confused and think we are talking about drinking Beamish over the toobz. But I’m sure he’ll figure it out.

            Bob in HI

            (Sorry for the OT, folks, I need to lighten up somethimes)

  16. Mary says:

    Less OT – along with Reid saying we can’t let The Terrorists come to this country, Mueller has now testified that they are too dangerous to allow into US prisons, even max security prisons.

    In part he’s worred abut fundraising and radicalizing. Good to know that keeping them at GITMO won’t enable terrorist fundraising and won’t radicalize any Muslims who think that is a pissy thing to do. More reassuring still – his response to what to do is a big I dunno.

    This all seems to me like the basic Dem/Reid (aka Reiddem & Weep, Part 8,757) approach on the detainees is going to be to push through the notso improved, not much different MCAs, force Obama to push hard for fast and dirty commissions that will hand out some quickie death sentences and keep the likes of KSM there at GITMO until the killings are done for the highest profiles. Meanwhile, for the guys who shouldn’t have been there anyway, they’ll pay off like blackmail victims to get Afghanistan and if it looks like habeas is going to apply there too for “ship ins” they’ll find a fast and dirty way to pawn them off on Karzai for $$$$$$$$$.

    There is nothing else indicative of a “plan.” And Obama is really good at the finger steepling, but you can’t fish or cut bait with your fingertips touching and nothing but a serious, thoughtful look to get you to the endpoint. The longer he waits to get to truthpoint, the worse it is going to be.

  17. fatster says:

    Bailouts and bonuses, Bush and Cheney, cont’d.

    U.S. Army paid bonuses to KBR despite deaths

    “WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The U.S. Army paid $83.4 million in bonuses to KBR Inc., its biggest contractor in Iraq, despite accusations its wiring work has been linked to the electrocution of at least four soldiers and one contractor, a congressional investigative panel said on Wednesday.”

    “The Senate Democratic Policy Committee said it also determined that more than half of the bonuses — $48.9 million — were awarded after the Defense Department sounded an alarm in early 2007 about what the panel described as pervasive problems with KBR.

    . . .

    “The Army declined to attend the hearing but submitted a written statement in which it said bonuses to KBR had been halted pending a review.”

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200…..ibw–

    http://tinyurl.com/rbrqwt

  18. bobschacht says:

    “Rice has no illusions about the CIA’s vulnerability to pressure during the Bush administration. “Anybody who believes that an administration can’t push the Agency to do something is really missing the point,” he told Olbermann. “The fact that they can push the Agency and say, ‘This is what I’m looking for’ … will drive them to do certain things that may or may not be true — and that’s a big part of the problem that we’re facing right now.”’

    Yeah, I saw that interview, too. Maybe we should just re-name the CIA as the “Department of Preconceived Notions.”

    My sanity is being preserved by listening to Hawaiian music– Presently Kapono Beamer, with Ho’okena, and the Cazimero Brothers on the play list, too.

    Bob in HI

    • fatster says:

      Hey, I found the Brothers Cazimero over at youtube, but need help with Kapono Beamer.

    • freepatriot says:

      Maybe we should just re-name the CIA as the “Department of Preconceived Notions.”

      I could do better than that

      Bullshitters R Us

      Bullshit for rent

      Bullshit City

      Bullshit Outlet

      The Big Bullshit Store

      Bullshit-O-Rama

      Crazy Dick’s Bullshit Emporium

      an that’s just a few of the ones that include the word “bullshit”

      (the crystal bong is still cloudy, but in a different way, this batch ain’t as funny as the last batch)

      editor’s note to self, always remember to capitalize Bullshit-O-Rama

  19. fatster says:

    Plame and the O-team:

    Obama Lawyers Urge Rejection of Leak Suit Against Cheney, Rove

    By Greg Stohr

    “May 20 (Bloomberg) — The Obama administration urged the U.S. Supreme Court not to revive a lawsuit accusing former Vice President Dick Cheney and other officials in the George W. Bush White House of illegally revealing the identity of a CIA agent.

    “U.S. Solicitor General Elena Kagan, the government’s top courtroom lawyer, told the justices in a legal filing today that a federal appeals court was right to dismiss the suit by former CIA operative Valerie Plame.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/…..refer=home

    • phred says:

      EW any chance you can track down Kagan’s legal filing for us to enjoy? I can’t wait to see how the Obama administration justifies keeping members of the executive branch out of the reach of the law…

    • bobschacht says:

      “U.S. Solicitor General Elena Kagan, the government’s top courtroom lawyer, told the justices in a legal filing today that a federal appeals court was right to dismiss the suit by former CIA operative Valerie Plame.”

      And she’s being touted for the Supremes? Oh, please.

      Bob in HI

  20. oldtree says:

    A kangaroo court would be more civilized and perhaps even more fair. US Justice is telling the man he has no defense that is useable due to it’s secret nature? “It’s lost”, (evidence) as an excuse has caused a lot of people on trial in the US justice system to have their cases thrown out immediately. I wonder why this court would consider so many insults to the rule of law?

  21. bobschacht says:

    Quoth Fatster & 48,

    Hey, I found the Brothers Cazimero over at youtube, but need help with Kapono Beamer.

    Just mosey on over to KINE105 or Mountain Apple.
    You may not get Keola or Kapono Beamer, but you’ll find much like them.
    BTW, the Beamer brothers have rather different styles.
    Mountain Apple has a sample of Kapono Beamer. And don’t forget to look for the immortal IZ on youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ltAGuuru7Q and elsewhere. Forget Judy Garland.

    Good stuff for wounded psyches.

    Bob in HI

  22. Bluetoe2 says:

    They won’t give him the dairies but they will let him watch American Idol or Survivor. That’s all many, if not most Americans, care about.

  23. freepatriot says:

    here’s the next repuglitarded hissy fit aborning

    1 in 7 Freed Detainees Rejoins Fight, Report Found

    In the report, the Pentagon confirmed that two former Guantánamo prisoners whose terrorist activities had been previously reported had indeed returned to the fight. They are Said Ali al-Shihri, a leader of Al Qaeda’s Yemeni branch suspected in a deadly bombing of the United States embassy in Sana, Yemen’s capital, last year, and Abdullah Ghulam Rasoul, an Afghan Taliban commander, who also goes by the name Mullah Abdullah Zakir.

    fookin Obama released this guy LAST YEAR, an he returned to the battlefield

    watch it happen …

  24. doorworker says:

    Man…this destruction of evidence is just crazymaking.

    Especially combined with false outrage on the part of the torture-supporters, and this sense–just heard a journalist throw this out matter-of-factly on KCRW’s To the Point the other day–that Dems have no stomach for a truth commission (and the Pelosi kerfufflers know it full well).

    WTF?!? We’re talking about enormously important history here. It just seems impossible that so much of this critical information could’ve just been destroyed. And exponentially more impossible that HAYDEN and this JOSE ROGRIGUEZ guy (just as a start) could walk away unscathed from such criminal ratf**kery, not against Democrats (as with Watergate), but against ‘democracy’ per se…a self-governing populace’s right to know, EVEN IN HINDSIGHT, the historical record of what the hell went on in our names and on our dimes.

    It’s so infuriating! And add in Monday’s 5-4 Supreme Court ruling shielding these villains from lawsuits…that is, unless plaintiffs

    “somehow ha[ve] gotten his/her hands on evidence that shows that the high officials were *specifically* involved in the planning and approval of the abuse.”

    [rimshot]

    It’s just unbearable…what would be a working person’s version of “going Galt”? I’m…..’going Kadzinsky’ comes to mind but christ…that’s a little much…well, now Dylan’s ‘You Aint Going Nowhere’ has popped into my head. …Sigh… Good song, actually…and the lyric

    “Genghis Khan and his brother Don”

    even has some relevance to the topic at hand. Odd.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01753.html>

  25. robspierre says:

    This is really a problem with the courts, not the CIA. The government will not present key evidence that may be exculpatory. So the courts should simply dismiss the charges and order the prisoners freed–in the US, if need be.

    We have to be ready to pay the price of Bushist hubris. We played fast and loose with our own laws, and now we have to accept that we cannot prosecute detainees that might have been convictable if we’d followed our own rules. I’m more afraid of the collapse of law in this country than I am of a few Arabs and Uighurs whose names and faces are known. If and when one of them commits provable crimes, try him and punish him. Otherwise, forget it.

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