White Supremacists with Hydrogen Peroxide
Well this will get interesting.
Via David Neiwert, an possible white supremacist blew his hand off while trying to make TATP (possibly while his mom, in the same house where his mom runs a day care). [corrected]
Benjamin Kuzelka allegedly was making an explosive device when it accidentally detonated about 11:30 p.m. Wednesday, deputies said. He suffered an injury to one hand. About 20 minutes later, deputies said, he showed up at a local hospital saying that he had accidentally shot himself with a gun.
“His injuries were inconsistent with a gunshot wound and doctors called the police,” said Deputy Melissa Nieburger, a Sheriff’s Department spokeswoman.
Deputies went to the Kuzelka home on a cul-de-sac in the 30500 block of Audelo Street. Property records list Rebecca Kuzelka as the sole owner of the house, which was built in 1983.
Inside the home, Nieburger said, deputies found materials used to make explosives, as well as a sophisticated indoor marijuana growing room.
Authorities did not say how many marijuana plants allegedly were found in the home or disclose the type of explosive materials that were uncovered. A law enforcement source told The Times that substances found at the home were similar to acetone peroxide, or TATP, the same type of powerful explosive used in the 2007 London subway terrorist bombings. There was no evidence that the Lake Elsinore incident was related to terrorism, the source said.
No ties to “terrorism,” perhaps, but a stash of Nazi propaganda.
Nazi paraphenalia was also found inside the home.
Now, interestingly, these guys might not even qualify for the new language (or even the old language) in Section 215 allowing the FBI to now check all the hardware and beauty supply stores in Lake Elsinore for others who have been purchasing TATP precursors–unless the Nazi propaganda qualifies as “international terrorism.”
(A) a statement of the facts and circumstances relied upon by the applicant to justify the belief of the applicant that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the tangible things sought are relevant to an authorized investigation (other than a threat assessment) conducted in accordance with subsection (a)(2) to obtain foreign intelligence information not concerning a United States person or to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities;
But if they did, do you think all the white right wingers buying acetone to paint their house are going to like the fact that they may now be targeted as potential TATP suspects?
This TATP stuff is scary stuff–and this guy almost blew up his mother’s home with all the day care kids. But the precursors are still everyday chemicals.
So what’s the solution to this stuff–now that potential homegrown right wing terrorists are using the stuff?
I’m curious if the Nazi junk could turn it into a hate crime or a enhancement of the same ?
yeah, i linked to this story thursday afternoon in the peroxide & acetone post when it first broke locally. thanks for putting into words what i had been pondering – whether the keeping america safe: obama style, part 215 would pick up the non-muslim-y extremists.
favorite part is the guy went to the emergency room and claimed his mangled appendage was courtesy a gunshot wound.
Um, the police reports says the explosion was at 11:30 pm. I really doubt the day-care center was open.
’twasn’t, according to Dave’s source.
Guess I owe ya a beverage…
Probably just dumb luck there weren’t kids around, though…
FWDiva
I changed it, but they’re holding him on suspicion of endangering children meaning they think he may have been using these chemicals while there were there. It was inaccurate, but that’s what I was trying to get to.
Thanks.
Thanks for the link to Dave’s piece, EW.
Small correction: there were no children present at the time of the explosion (per the article Dave cites). It was pretty late at night to have the littl’uns around…
FunnyWheelieDiva
The only solution I can think of is to hope more of them blow themselves up.
Day-care is sometimes a misnommer- people who work the 2nd and third shifts need childcare too!
Timothy McVeigh wasn’t a terrorist either. Nor are those lynchings terrorist acts.
Dave Neiwert’s writing for C&L? Maybe I’ll go back (haven’t been reading regularly since the partisanship of the presidential primaries drove me away), I know him from the mid-80s in Seattle.
@rosalind: “non-muslim-y extremists,” I like it. Wonder where we white guys get the idea that violent “kinetic activity” is the best answer to human problems? ‘Do as we say, or we’ll make your life a living hell until you do.’ Sounds familiar, can’t quite place it.
And then, if they’ve done what we say, and their life is still a living hell, we’ll blame them for not being civilized enough. I’m sure I’ve seen this movie before. Might’ve been about slavery, or maybe Indian Removal, or maybe civilizing the Philippines, or the Monroe Doctrine, or….
the kuzelka house at 9 p.m.:
benji, dear, do be careful with those chemicals you’ve been playing with. remember, you took out the garden shed two months ago and paul found our wheelbarrow in his back yard.
mom. i’m always careful. i know what i’m doing.
the keuzleka house at 11:30 p.m.:
benji, dear, what was that terrible noise? are you o.k.?
mom. everything’s alright.
i’m going out for a bit, now.
be back soon.
Can that stuff be made with your standard OTC 3-percent peroxide?
Because I was under the impression that it required the higher-concentration stuff, which is more dangerous and generally not easily available. (I suspect the feds do keep an eye on chemical supply companies, and have for years.)
Well, crap. Our corporate-owned Oregonian headlined a recent spraypainting of Hummers parked on a dealer’s lot as “eco-terrorism.”
And this shit isn’t?
morning everyone!
take special notice of this paragraph as a whole because it’s pretty indicative
what frigging hypocrites eh?
he’s a white supremacist growing Happy weed for profit and/or pleasure
I know, HE’S A SUPREME HIPPY!!!!
Emptywheel, I think you may be taking the TATP m0r0ns a bit too seriously. George Smith commented on this trend last week.
Long story short, TATP is one of a fairly long list of items that (i) go bang, (ii) are made from commonplace precursors, and (iii) are a far graver threat to the eeejits who cook them up than to their intended victims.
Remember how the Los Vegas ricin guy ended up? Yeah, in a hospital, poisoned by his own concoction.
This sort of thing is not for newbies, unless they’re in the market for a new reincarnation. There’s a serious learning curve. Technical knowledge ALWAYS has a price, and with this, the price of that knowledge is goddamned high.
If someone is fool enough to go this route, he’s also fool enough to get himself caught if he’s lucky.
Meanwhile, don’t let the media fearmongers play you.
As one who collects stamps, including 3rd Reich-era stamps and covers, I wonder if this would be considered ‘Nazi paraphernalia”? Never mind that I lost family to the Holocaust, and some of the covers were family letters. We buy peroxide for treating wounds. Isn’t acetone in nail polish remover?
…………..
I wonder if Kuzelka will be labeled left-wing by the blabbing pundits because of the pot?
I think it’d be a hard case…it’s hardly propaganda. There’s nothing that’s racially or ethnically antagonistic in any of the stamps that I’ve seen. If anything it’s aggrandizing. But no different than pictures in Historical books or Leni Reifenstahl movies. There are also many who even collect and study MODERN neo-Nazi movements, collecting their literature, analyzing it, and enunciating their dangers. There’s a difference between this and the application of Nazi material as advocacy. And even that is protected by the first Amendment. But if you started amassing an arsenal or working on bombs the materials that you have might provide evidence of a “context”.
It’s like the difference between some jerk who uses a racial epithet, and one that attacks a physically minority while using racial epithets. The first passes muster (in most cases) under the First Amendment, the latter is probably a hate crime.
I wonder if my Time/Life book series on the Third Reich would be enough to get me listed as having Nazi paraphernalia?
-G
We’ve nver going to be able to reliabily stop the kitchen chemist. There are simply too many common items that can be worked to make explosive. Or poison gas. We can’t live without gasoline, bleach, soap powder, nor is it feasable to track and check every purchase.
Further, we can’t stop these nuts from being created. Fox broadcasting is protected by the 1st amendment, as is the American Nazi Party, the KKK, and Sen. Sessions. And in a nation of hundreds of millions, there will always be willing listeners.
Protect the prime targets, force them to select smaller clusters of victims. Make sure you catch them after their first shot. Don’t forget their friends.
Did you know model rocketeers can purchase the exact same solid rocket motor that the military uses to launch cruise missles? All it takes is level 3 certification and about $2000, including shipping.
As a teenager, I used to order chemicals in lab quantities from chemical supply houses for my Chem set. A pound of dry sodium cost $15. Percloric (sp) acid was $5/gallon. And so on.
Boxturtle (The universe is an amazing place. But it’s NOT safe. – Q, Star Trek TNG)
I remember, many years ago, a discussion with friends, on building nuclear sniper bullets (taking out a command post, for example). The consensus was that it would require a warehouse full of smoke detectors to build one, and the exposure for the shooter would be sufficient that someone who was terminally ill would have to fire it.
Smoke detectors have microgram quantities, so a warehouse would be about right.
Some folks get hung up on using Nuclear. If I want to make a command post unhabitable, I’d use a wax bullet soaked in mercaptin. It would splatter everywhere and I guarentee nobody would be in that room until a time consuming cleanup was completed. It’s the stuff that adds smell to natural gas so you know when there’s a leak. A reasonable sized city might use a pint a week, to give you an idea how strong it is.
Boxturtle (Both are commonly available)
I do know about the mercaptans. My mother told me about them (she was an oilfield lab tech), and I actually work for a gas company. In an office, actually, although I’ve gone out to look at stuff (these days I drive the little Google camera car past stuff).
Digression: Odorants are used because natural gas doesn’t normally have much of an odor, and it’s something where you really want to know if it’s leaking. I heard that in cities they look for flies that are attracted by the smell, and out in the boonies they’ll check where the buzzards are congregating (especially in the desert).
We were figuring, with the nuclear bullets, to take out the officers, more than the building. Buildings are so much easier to replace than the senior officers ….
Q!!!!
This guy is ‘armless. No worries.
OT – a driveby thank you to all the commentors, new and old, on the Blob That Passed Telecom Immunity thread for the insights into how things work and the extra effort given to make the information something a non-techie like me could kinda sorta follow in bits and pieces.
Wish we had some way to do some sort of mini-seminar on the really basic phone and IP tech stuff, just to provide a basis for all the big analytical brains here to work from.
Interesting that the Muslim would get all of the national attention and not the neo-nazi.
Of course. Neonazis are Good White Amurr’kins. /s
OK, he blowed hisself up at midnight. no kids around. but if he had been a little smarter, he would had a bomb that could sit in the basement for about 12 hours before spontaneously exploding. with 20 kids in the house.
kinda scary to think the only thing keeping us safe is stupidity.