KSM to Be Tried in NYC, al-Nashiri to Be Tried in Military Commission, Abu Zubaydah to ?

The AP is previewing what Eric Holder will announce later today regarding where various Gitmo detainees will be tried. It reports that KSM–and the other four people charged with him as 9/11 conspirators–will be tried in civilian court in NY.

Rahim al-Nashiri will be tried in a military commission–though it’s not clear where he’ll be tried.

The AP makes no mention of where Abu Zubaydah will be tried. The AP also made no mention of Mohammed al-Qahtani, who is alleged to be the 20th 9/11 hijacker.

While I’m glad a trial of KSM will demonstrate that our criminal system can deal with the worst of the worst, it’s the treatment of the others–al-Nashiri, Abu Zubaydah, and al-Qahtani–that will truly demonstrate the strength or failures of our legal system. KSM, after all, has said he wants to be executed; KSM freely boasts of his role in 9/11. That’ll make it easier to avoid discussing his brutal torture.

But what do you do with someone like Abu Zubaydah, who is probably not fit for trial, whose diaries (which the government still won’t give him) would prove he was tortured, and who wasn’t who they said he was when they waterboarded him 83 times?

Update: In what is surely directly related news, Greg Craig will announce his resignation today. This suggests Craig disagrees substantially with some part of this plan. Given that Craig was one of those who wanted accountability for torture, that suggests he may see some of these choices as designed to hide the evidence of torture.

65 replies
  1. klynn says:

    But what do you do with someone like Abu Zubaydah, who is probably not fit for trial, whose diaries (which the government still won’t give him) would prove he was tortured, and who wasn’t who they said he was when they waterboarded him 83 times?

    White House Counsel Gregory B. Craig is expected to announce his departure as early as Friday and maybe someone could ask him your spot-on question.

    • emptywheel says:

      Yeah, updaeted the post with that. Which I guess suggests that Craig is very unhappy with some of these decisions and does not want to be associated with them.

  2. BoxTurtle says:

    If I’m defense lawyer for KSM, I’m gonna challenge every scrap of evidence introduced as tainted by torture. I’m not sure there would be any evidence left.

    I’d also ask for a judical panel rather than a jury. A jury would vote to convict if KSM was wheeled into the courtroom ON a waterboard.

    And a venue change out of NYC.

    Boxturtle (Would much rather be the defense atty in this fight)

    • emptywheel says:

      I actually suspect there’s quite a bit of clean evidence against KSM.

      Of course, once that becomes clear, people will ask why we waterboarded him 183 times, but whatever.

      • BoxTurtle says:

        I’m sure there is clean evidence, but the government is going to have to prove that evidence is not “tainted” by torture. The burdon of proof is going to be on the prosecution.

        The prosecution will have to prove that what’s left of KSM is competent to stand trial.

        I’d also bring up the number of times he was questioned without having a lawyer present.

        Here’s why the government thinks they can try KSM in a real court: He WANTS to confess, he WANTS to be a martyr. If permitted, he’ll get on that stand and brag about it. They’re counting on KSM to convict himself in open court.

        Boxturtle (It’ll be a show that’ll rival the Manson trial!)

      • Leen says:

        One of the things they reported on Morning Edition was that KSM had admitted that he was the King Pin of 9/11 before they waterboarded him so many times

        • BoxTurtle says:

          Without a lawyer present, under circumstances where duress could certainly be inferred. IF KSM decides to fight rather than plead guilty, I’d bet his defense lawyer gets that confession thrown out.

          As defense lawyer, I could also put together a witness list that ObamaCo would not like at all. Rumor has it that the VP himself was present by telephone for some of KSM’s interrogations. This could lead right to that BushCo box that Obama does not want to open.

          Boxturtle (Any bets that KSM tries to be his own lawyer, plead guilty and demand death?)

          • tjbs says:

            Or live video feeds ,could open a man sized safe sealed by Pandora herself.

            Obstruction of justice by destroying evidence, the tapes, the government deprives defense of the real story.

          • bmaz says:

            There is no requirement that a lawyer be present unless the subject has invoked his right to counsel; KSM nhas consistently disdained counsel.

            • BoxTurtle says:

              Argh. Good point, I remember reading that now. I still think there’s value in challenging such a confession, especially if the spooks were holding his family at the time.

              DOJ thinks they can win in a real courtroom with a real judge. They must be expecting a guilty plea or equivalent. Don’t I recall that KSM tried (succeded?) to lead other gitmo prisoners to plead guilty in one of the show trials?

              Boxturtle (Discovery will be painful for the DOJ if KSM decides to fight)

  3. skdadl says:

    Nothing yet about Omar Khadr, but Holder is supposed to announce Obama’s position on what to do with him today too.

    Coincidentally, Steve’s lawyers appear today before our Supremes to warn them that they mustn’t meddle in the way that Steve conducts foreign policy. Khadr’s lawyers and about ten supporting groups will argue, I hope and expect, that foreign policy is not a legitimate excuse to cover up complicity in violations of Khadr’s rights as a citizen and of international law.

      • skdadl says:

        Me too, although I’m told that they seldom rule from the bench — ie, we’re going to have to wait a while longer. They have already ruled once, though, that the feds had to hand over documents they shared with the U.S. — it’s on the basis of that ruling, I think, that the Federal Court was expanding in their latest order, so I’m hoping …

        Actually, I would like to hear the learned justices shout at the government lawyers who are still willing to appear before them and make silly arguments. I’ve been going to bmaz school for a while, y’know. ;-)

  4. Jim White says:

    Wow, that is very interesting on tying Craig’s timing to the suppression of torture evidence.

    I just put up a diary arguing that KSM’s torture continues since we still don’t know the fates of his children. As Marcy says in 3, I also come to the conclusion that there probably is sufficient “clean” evidence against KSM to convict him, and suggest that it was a DOJ determination of this that allowed Holder to make the decision for a criminal trial.

  5. nextstopchicago says:

    I think people didn’t like Craig much. I had come expecting to see some happiness that he was resigning.

    So admittedly I haven’t been keeping up and doing my homework. But can someone refresh me, and there are probably others like me. If Craig was at least moderate on torture, what was the issue with him? Is he a hardliner on the executive privilege and public information questions? Is it FISA issues?

    Thanks in advance.

    • emptywheel says:

      You’re right: don’t like Craig, don’t like the circumstances of his departure (though FWIW I think Bauer, who will replace him, is uber-competent).

      My problems with Craig started when he lied about Obama’s reasons for flip-flopping on FISA last year. He also conducted a cover-up of Rahm’s chats with Blago (not too terrible, but shameful for him). And yes, he has been the key player in finding “compromises” that protect executive power even in ridiculous cases (the most atrocious being his “compromise” on Rove’s testimony, w/o declaring his ties to Rove.

      So no, I don’t like Craig. But on the larger moral issues he appears to have fought on the side of the good. If he were ousted, I’d have loved it to be for his defense of executive power.

      As it is, I expect Bauer will be doing the same things, only even more competently.

    • emptywheel says:

      Yes, his lawyers were trying to get his medical records to challenge his fitness. And FWIW, recent ACLU docs show the FBI was concerned about his treatment in September 2002. That’s interesting, bc there HAD been reports he talked immediately. But it sounds like they abused him too (I know, surprise surprise).

      So I was going to note that, of the five 9/11 conspirators, the Binalshibh case might be the most interesting.

  6. klynn says:

    As it is, I expect Bauer will be doing the same things, only even more competently.

    So, I wonder if the the announced “short stint” by his wife, Anita Dunn, was “short” from the start because she knew in the next few months her husband would end up in the WH?

  7. alan1tx says:

    But what do you do with someone like Abu Zubaydah, who is probably not fit for trial, whose diaries (which the government still won’t give him) would prove he was tortured,

    I don’t know the background here, but the word ‘prove’ seems a little strong. Just because I write something im my diary doesn’t prove it’s true.

  8. lawordisorder says:

    I think were in for a big future in the hunt for papadick and the warcounsel

    when times comes for some trashtalk bmaz might wanna contemplate this vid

    In the name of Veterans day, poppeythings(British version), stop putting out fire and take the fight to the enemy, “haven’t the foggiest” kind of a weird thing or as someone mentioned on my facebook

    “has been thinking about the words on the Kohima memorial: When you go home, tell them of us and say, for your tomorrow, we gave our today.”

    To me it looks like the dike has broken and the leaks will only get bigger
    So let the fighting commenze

    Just my five cents worth

  9. georgewalton says:

    From the perspective of liberals, the revelations of torture will demonstrate what a monster the Bush/Cheney administration was. True enough. But from the perspective of all too many American citizens being a monster is exactly what the doctor ordered after 9/11.

    How do progressives close the gap here?

    And if tomorrow a dirty bomb explodes in New York, tens of thousands die, and radioactive fallout renders block after block after block uninhabitable, the Obama administration will no doubt make the Bush administration look like the ACLU.

    Everything is always from a point of view. Everything is always embedded in a context.

    • tjbs says:

      I don’t give a shit what the majority of Americans want, That’s mob rule.
      I want the agreed upon format, the Constitution and the attendant treaties followed to the letter of the law.
      Yea, I also want a Criminal investigation of 9-11 by like Elliot Spitzer. If there’s nothing to hide there’s nothing to fear.

      • georgewalton says:

        I agree. Mob rule. But until liberals come up with a way to take the mob out of them, they don’t give a shit that you don’t give a shit. BeckWorld is winning their hearts and minds now.

        Unless the left gets around to organizing a ground operation [like they did in the 50s and 60s] things are going to get a lot worse I suspect.

    • emptywheel says:

      Actually, there won’t BE revelations of torture–not in NY. Which will make it abundantly clear that they had KSM dead to rights anway, without torturing him.

      • georgewalton says:

        KSM is a totalitarian religious fanatic. Grant him his wish and be done with him.

        But what about all those prisoners who have been languishing down in Guantanamo for years now like characters out of The Trial. Those who were turned over to the Americans for cash or because someone wanted to settle a personal grudge. Their plight is nothing less abominable.

        And until Obama goes after the Cheney torturers, his administration is just Bush Lite as far as I am concerned.

      • BoxTurtle says:

        If they can build a case using only evidence gathered BEFORE KSM was captured, that’ll make challenging the evidence much more difficult. But I’d sure bring up the number of “corrections” to sworn evidence the government has made to call into question the accuracy of any evidence they submit.

        Boxturtle (The count in Judge Walkers courtroom alone would raise reasonable doubt)

    • lawordisorder says:

      You do what you always do in a time of war or crisis…….

      You take a very deep breath, figure out what the hell went wrong if any, then you figure out whose behind it, then you nail hies ass to church door… as in a courtroom real gentleman like after all were not brutes…witch what seperate us from the bad guys, but i guess someone did fumble one that bit, then i surgest that you leave it up to people who actually capable of doing this “under fire” so to speak

      But the again don’t mind me as today here at the coffee-maker were giving out something a little bit stronger than regular unleaded as we leave the current fighting alone and selebrate the vitory’s (and defeats) remembering not only fallen or wounded on our own side but on all sides

      Did i miss something

      BTW marcy were getting a little over the side of not doing anything on paper or open channel coms watching you and the boys at work personaly im all in here, not one piece of paper in sieght, thats how good you guys are my bet if the boys at langley or other places were to be engaged in the “brains on active” game they would hire your ass on a split second…i know i would…..

    • robspierre says:

      “And if tomorrow a dirty bomb explodes in New York, tens of thousands die, and radioactive fallout renders block after block after block uninhabitable”

      We need to stop spreading the scare propaganda and be realistic.

      Even if we ignore the fact that 44000 die every year from lack of health coverage and focus solely on statisticly unlikely terrorist threats, we can rule out the “dirty bomb”. There is no such thing, at least no terrorist-buiidable device that could kill more than a few dozens. This has been debunked by any number of scientific groups. But a little highschool physics should be enought to reason it out.

      The problem is that the “dirty bomb” concept demands efficiently distributing dust–from a medical radiology device–through large volumes of air. Even if you could steal enough medical equipment–there is only a little material in one–getting anythng efficiently spread in air is not easy at all. Your best bet, as a terrorist, would be to try for a modern, sealed office building with a self-contained HVAC system to do the spreading for you. But even that is not at all efficient, given ducting and filters and such. Casualties would be limited and almost entirely long-term. Cancer deaths in 30 years and depreciated real estate values (due to contamination) are not the stuff of terrorist media spectaculars.

      We also have to assume that you, as a terrorist, are competent to handle some incredibly dangerous and insidious material without killing yourself in the first few minutes. As a dirty-bomber, you have to break open the safety seals on multiple container and manipulate 50 pounds or more of a dangerous alpha emmitter without spilling even a little. Because if you do, the concentrated radiation exposure in your car or motel room IS enough to kill you in minutes.

      So, for the best ratio of terror caused and life lost per effort involved, you would do better to visit your local gunshop, legally purchase a couple of assault rifles, with plenty of ammo and extra magazines, and then traipse over to the nearest large mall or freeway overpass. The big terrorism threat in the US, if there is one, is the one that the NRA and their Congressional lapdogs don’t want you to think about.

  10. eCAHNomics says:

    As I typed on an earlier thread, I better stop throwing out those jury summons and start opening them. KSM & the other 4 trials would be a once-in-a-lifetime event to participate in.

  11. HardheadedLiberal says:

    EW, what is the back story on Craig as a proponent of accountability for torture? I always thought of him as a “fixer” who was probably one of the voices for “letting the past be.”

    It is hard to figure out how public trials in an Article III court could suppress evidence of torture. If KSM is actually tried in an Article III court, there will be a mega-hearing on a Motion to Suppress based on torture (Boxturtle is spot on about this). Even if DOJ tried to close that hearing to the public, the process of the press seeking access, etc., would put a glaring spotlight on all the circumstances surrounding the torture. A trial in an Article III court would be ideal for those seeking accountability, IMHO. Of course, if the idea of a state-side trial deals with military commissions, the picture is much, much darker, I fear.

    Admittedly I am completely uninformed about the wishes and agendas of any of the inside players, but if KSM is to have a public trial, the only narrative that makes any sense is that Craig opposed airing out the torture further and lost. What am I missing?

  12. Knoxville says:

    Very big news. Looks like President Obama will from now finally be showing us some change… getting things done.

    Honestly, I’m surprised by this news because A) they’re coming to US soil and B) to put these guys on trial after Bush made a fucking mess by torturing detainees I thought would have made putting them on trial difficult to impossible.

    He wants a real strategy for Afghanistan, which must include clearly marked exit ramps.

    By Oct 1, 2010, DADT (don’t ask, don’t tell) will probably be a thing of history.

    What am I leaving out?

    If I’m right, I’ll be more than happy to thank President Obama for getting his groove on!

    Still looking for the stupid Stupak nonsense to be taken out of the health care reform bill, Mr. President.

  13. Sara says:

    Remember KSM is under indictment for the Bojinka plot, a Grand Jury indictment that came down long before 9/11 — the product of Janet Reno and Patrick Fitzgerald’s efforts in 1998 when they called a secret Grand Jury that also indicted bin Laden. The FBI made an effort to arrest him in Qutar, but KSM was tipped off by a member of the royal family, and he absconded. Because the bomb intended for the whole Bojinka plot exploded on a Manila to Japan flight, and a Japanese Businessman was killed on the flight, this is a Capital case, even though the earlier Jury voted life without parole.

    That indictment is well tested, the others involved in the Bojinka plot were successfully tried in 1999 by Mary Jo White and Fitzgerald, convicted, and sentenced to life without parole. The smart thing to do would be to try KSM on this matter alone, he would be tied to bin Laden by the indictment, and I suppose getting a conviction would be fairly certain. Then have a subsequent trial for 9/11 where the evidence is, to say the least, a mite of a mess.

    • cinnamonape says:

      Bojinka would get him a life sentence…commensurate with Ramzi. That was for an unsuccessful plot. In order to raise that to a Capital murder charge they’d have to extradict him to Japan or the Philippines. I don’t think either has the death penalty. But they may very well be able to link him, via confession, to 9/11, through Bojinka. That did cause the death of some 2500 American citizens and thus, obviously, would be a death penalty case.

      • Sara says:

        “Bojinka would get him a life sentence…commensurate with Ramzi. That was for an unsuccessful plot. In order to raise that to a Capital murder charge they’d have to extradict him to Japan or the Philippines. I don’t think either has the death penalty. But they may very well be able to link him, via confession, to 9/11, through Bojinka. That did cause the death of some 2500 American citizens and thus, obviously, would be a death penalty case.”

        Yes, but I believe it was an American Flagged Carrier where the Japanese Businessman was killed — thus American Soil so to speak.

        Japan has a death penalty — hanging, and they don’t tell the convicted when they are going to do it till minutes before it is done. Most death penalty cases sit around for years, and then suddenly the executionor shows up. Most convicted go nuts long before their execution.

        Ranzi was tried for Bojinka as a capital crime, but in the penalty phase the jury could not agree on the death penalty — I think there were two hold-out’s, so it became life without parole. New York historically doesn’t generate all that many hanging juries — they convict, but getting 12 to agree on a death penalty is unusual. In this case, and several others during the 90’s, the jury members were identified only by number, so as to protect them from threats. My personal opinion is that I hope he does not get a death sentence, given that he wants to be a martyr. Disappearance into an isolation cell in Florence Colorado is far more appropriate.

  14. NorskeFlamethrower says:


    Citizen emptywheel and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

    Thank you for another great piece of important information and analysis, is FDL the best source of news for a free citizenry, er what??!!

    As far as the implications of this decision and the resignation of Greg Craig, is it possible that there has been a real battle between the shadow government security services and the administration from the very beginning of the administration and Obama has been usin’ the torture issue and investigations and the trials of the worst GITMO suspects as a chip in that fight? Now if we look at what has happened in the last 48 hours with the announcement that Obama is NOT gunna send more troops to Afghanistan and then, now, the announcement that there will be a show trial for the confessed “worst of the worst” but no public exposure for the torture that has gone on, is there a context in which to speculate that this was a trade-off with both the military and the CIA to not torpedo Obama’s Afghanistan decision? Expand the context to include the trial balloon that went up a couple days ago that GITMO shouldn’t be closed this year and maybe we have a picture of what the bureaucratic battlefield looks like today between the security aparatus and the President.

    Let’s not forget that we have almost exactly the same internal conditions between the White House and corporate-military-security forces today that existed from 1961-1963 and, in my opinion, JFK’s decision not to send ground troops was what got ‘im killed by these same folks who are wrestlin’ with Obama today.

    I think we need to be careful about the judgments we make about the real values or motivations behind ANY of the actions of this administration and when a decision like this one about the trial is made I don’t think it can be disarticulated from other decisions and movements like the decision on Afghanistan. And for all those sunshine patriots and armchair radicals who accuse Obama of bein’ another Clintonista oportunist who enables the corporate fascists, try and think beyond your livingroom and put yourself in the den of the beast that wants to eat you for lunch.

    Certainly the resignation of Citizen Craig is a blow and a real loss both to the country and to Obama but Obama has lost a lot of good people so far because of either what he has done or as a result of political reaction from the fascists. And by the way, where is Sister Johnson and why isn’t she at the helm of the OLC yet?


  15. skdadl says:

    CanWest news service reports that Holder will announce that Khadr stays within the military commissions system.

    That could be because Obama is waiting on Steve to do the right thing, and Steve won’t do it unless the Supreme Court forces him to. It would take a pretty crooked court to convict Khadr (exculpatory evidence, including photos we’ve all seen, plus evidence of severe abuse at Bagram and GTMO, false testimony already extracted from him re Arar and disproved by CSIS, and so on).

    • Petrocelli says:

      Thanks to Iggy’s miscues, Steve is on the verge of a majority Gov’t, so the only way he will do the right thing is if the Court forces him to do so.

      • BoxTurtle says:

        the only way he will do the right thing is if the Court forces him to do so

        Our systems of government are much more alike than some Canucks would like to believe.

        Boxturtle (*rimshot*)

        • Petrocelli says:

          Absolutely, they are both corruptible. What’s amazing to watch is how Canadians sit idly by, while Steve the NeoCon torch their rights and freedoms, even after seeing what BushCo did to America. For now, our Supreme Court is holding tight reins when matters are presented before them.

          • whitewidow says:

            And your Liberals seem to also be just as inept and guilty of political malpractice. It seems like a slam dunk to me to just say “Don’t trust teh cons, they want Canada to follow the path of destruction of the U.S.”

            Of course, Canada has always been about 7 years behind U.S. on fashion:)

            I really hope Canadians don’t let the neocons win, because Canucks are my favorite people. They also have the very best rugby socials.

    • BoxTurtle says:

      I’m not sure anything those commissions do will hold up. The supreme court has held that foreign nationals held/tried by America are entitled to constitutional protections.

      OTOH, the UCMJ does set up a separate court system with different rules of evidence and different protections. So it can be done without violating the constitution.

      It’ll be an interesting fight. It’ll be even more interesting if some other country (say Iran) creates a separate system for trying Americans with rules identical to the Military commissions.

      Boxturtle (This may be why we’re opening up to Cuba…they know how to make show trials work there!)

  16. TarheelDem says:

    Jury selection in the KSM case is likely to be grueling.

    There are also reports that some prisoners will be sent to Bagram. Might they be moved to POW status as a result of that move? My suspicion is that most of these are the ones who were picked up in the midst of battle in Afghanistan.

  17. Mary says:

    I didn’t read the CAP report, only the reporting on the report, but off the cuff it looks like Obama waited for that report and attempted to incorporate some of the rationales, but with enough difference that he can be The Decider.

    KSM was a perfect pick for a civilian trial for the admin and its PR. He’s tied to a lot of very evil actions and plans and after what he’s been through, he’s ready to be a martyr and be put to death, while using the trial to spew the kinds of rhetoric that will lite up Glen Beck’s face with opportunities for responsive hate chants it produces.

    I don’t think there’a a chance in hell of anything but horrible case law coming from the trial, but there will be a conviction and an execution and proof Obama can tout that he is tough on terrorism. Radical Islam will get a martyr and a showcase for how unfair American justice is and how America won’t walk the hard path. Fox and the American public will get to revisit horror shows and ramp up hate and fear and anger and frustration.

    And the Democratic leadership will put the final nail in the justice coffin and disprove what the former leaders of DOJ held as a tenet – that after what the DOJ conspired to do to the torture experiment detainees, they would never be able to be tried in a US court. Ashcroft, Thompson, Gonzales, Olsen, Comey, Yoo, Goldsmith, McNulty, Clement et al – they are going to get to see what they wrought; what even they thought was a fall too far – a fall that surely *someone else* would prevent.

    In any event, we’ll see the culminations of the existing, very bad, not good, really awful, case law that has already been put in place by the Saleh and Moussaoui and Padilla and a few other less high profile cases. It’s such a sad big picture; the smoke in your eyes from the handfuls of ashes makes it hard to see the smoking wastelands in process. Which might be a good thing.

    I guess that even though al-Nashiri was not taken on a battelefield, they are going to focus on the Cole attack as a military war crime by out of uniform “warriors” instead of an act of cowardice by criminals. Since the perpetrators are dead, it looks like Obama is going to open the door Stevens wanted to slam shut (and I thought CAP did too?) of making conspiracy a crime triable by military commission. To heck with what the ex-Nuremberg prosecutor says.

    Zubaydah will be their posterchild for America having “values.” They will trot out that he’s nuts and can’t stand trial as a result (see how good we are, we don’t try the crazy terrorist even though he’s a terrorist) and figure out a detention scheme for him based on his mental state (which they will attribute to his pre-existing conditions and not his torture and which will pump up the crazy terrorist theme). He might even find a way to suicide, like al-Libi, as a crazy guy in detention. After all, the unusual suicides haven’t exactly halted during Obama’s leadership. In any event, he has no family, al-Libi is dead, al-Qaeda never had any vested interest in him, the KSM trial will be a target for the mouth foaming and al-Nashiri’s triall will be a secondary deflection and people may forget AZ after a bit, tucked away for mental deterioriation. And the administration will demonstrate how you can just avoid it all.

    Not a pretty morning, but one that’s been expected since the finger steepler was elected. He’s an empty suit.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      All just in time for November 2010. Isn’t that just dandy?

      Mr. Obama is demonstrating that he’d rather his legacy were on the Bush Junior end of the continuum than the FDR, Washington and Lincoln end. Hell, at this point, I think I’d like Ike better. At least he could tell the difference between the military and a defense contractor, the inside of a courtroom from a jailroom, and the Constitution from a wet banana peel.

  18. person1597 says:

    Dont forget the smoke detector gambit…

    These devices are probably not a problem unless they burn, in which case the Americium would be released in particulate form – an inhalation hazard. The dangers of this kind of exposure have been massively neglected by the risk agencies.

    Getting rid of old detectors is a hazmat headache… or should be.

    Americium 241 is used in smoke detectors yet Americium 241 is ranked 14th out of 236 radioactive materials in level of radiotoxicity and is noted to cause cancer.

  19. cinnamonape says:

    I know this will be iconoclastic, but the best situation from my perspective would be that the US has to defend the pristineness of its pre-existing and independent KSM evidence by revealing what evidence they obtained through torture and duress. They will have to acknowledge torture and that there was evidence, much of it flawed both factually and as legal evidence, obtained in these sessions. They may have to reveal that they tortured other individuals at Gitmo, coercing them into confessions or into providing coerced evidence against others.

    But the USDOJ will perhaps have enough to convict. If so, let it be. But if the KSM trial exposes that others were held without valid evidence then they should be released.

  20. orionATL says:

    an initial, high-level, decision to try k.s. mohammad in NYC?

    a monkey-wrench for sure.

    if ever there was a change-of-venue request destined for success, this is it.

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