Cheney Cherry Picks Intelligence Again

Greg Sargent got a hold of Cheney’s FOIA request for the documents that will prove–he claims–that torture was effective. He’s asking for two documents, both of which were stored in his "detainees" file in his files. They are:

  • CIA Report, dated July 13, 2004
  • CIA Report, dated June 1, 2005 

(I’m a little confused about what the two different forms refer to, as they seem to refer to the same documents, though of different length.)

One thing is immediately clear from this request: Cheney is cherry-picking the documents that will prove his case (I know. You’re shocked.)

Cheney doesn’t request, after all, the roughly 6 pages of the CIA IG Report which directly addresses the efficacy of torture in collecting intelligence, which I discuss at length here. He probably doesn’t want that document because some of its conclusions–such as that "it is difficult to determine conclusively whether interrogations have provided information critical to interdicting specific imminent attacks"–really don’t help his case. By not FOIAing this document, though, Cheney makes it clear that he is just trying to get two documents that do prove his case, while leaving the counterarguments buried as still-classified documents. Just like he did, you’ll recall, with the intelligence that disproved the aluminum tubes and uranium acquisition claims he used to drag us into the Iraq War. (He’s consistent, I’ll give him that.)

It appears that one of the documents–the July 13, 2004 document–is referenced in detail in the May 30, 2005 Memo. Bradbury writes:

Prior to his capture, the CIA considered KSM to be one of al Qaeda’s "most important operational leaders … based on his close relationship with Usama Bin Laden and his reputation among the al-Qa’ida rank and file." [reference omitted] After the September 11 attacks, KSM assumed "the role of operations chief for al-Qa’ida around the world." CIA Directorate of Intelligence, Khalid Shaykh Muhammed: Preeminent Source on Al-Qa’ida (July 13, 2004)

Given the date, I believe this is one of the two documents Cheney is seeking. Bradbury later quotes the document saying,

KSM and Abu Zubaydah have been pivotal sources because of their ability and willingness to provide their analysis and speculation about the capabilities, methodologies, and mindsets of terrorists.

Such a claim, of course, seems to be contradicted by (and may be a response to) the IG Report’s assertion that lower-level detainees have been critical in developing an understanding of al-Qaeda.

CTC frequently uses the information from one detainee, as well as other sources, to vet the information from another detainee. Although lower-level detainees provide less information than the high value detainees, information from these detainees has, on many occasions, supplied the information needed to probe the high value detainees further. … [T]he triangulation of intelligence provides a fuller knowledge of Al-Qa’ida activities than would be possible from a single detainee.

As to the 2005 document, I’m a bit surprised that Cheney is not seeking the two documents created for Steven Bradbury to use as a prop for his memo, described as, 

  • Memorandum for Steven G. Bradbury, Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Office of Legal Counsel, from [redacted], DCI Counterterrorist Center, Re: Effectiveness of the CIA Counterintelligence Interrogation Techniques (March 2, 2005) ["Effectiveness Memo"]
  • Fax from [redacted], DCI Counterterrorist Center, Briefing Notes on the Value of Detainee Reporting (April 15, 2005) ["Briefing Notes"]

I find it particularly surprising since one of the torture apologists, Mark Thiessen, appears to have mentioned the "Effectiveness Memo" on Diane Rehm the other day and MiniCheney seemed to make a reference to it yesterday.

Given the timing, though, it appears that what Cheney is seeking may be a later version of the same Effectiveness Memo, invented to give Bradbury a way to claim the program was effective so he could use such a claim to get over the "shock the conscience" hurdle. 

Update: See Spencer’s take on this too. 

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97 replies
  1. scribe says:

    One is compelled to wonder how, in a universe of documents generated by the government and the mountains of documents that flowed through his office, good ol’ Deadeye Dick knows it’s exactly these two – and no more – documents which will jump up and prove his case.

    I mean, we flyfishermen are good at spotting fish trying to hide in streams of moving water and all, but this is just preternatural.

    More likely, either (a) he kept a list of stuff he wanted to take along or pull out in the event it might be necessary later or (b) one of his staybehinds is feeding information to him.

    Anyone else got a better idea?

    • phred says:

      The fact he only requests two documents also strikes me as significant. Two. Kinda like EW’s 10 pieces of information. The so-called usefulness of their techniques is scant indeed. You could find more needles in a haystack than they can scrounge up on the beneficial qualities of torture. And that of course assumes those two documents aren’t highly skewed misrepresentations of original source material to be found elsewhere (e.g. the landfill where the tapes and emails are buried).

    • MadDog says:

      Let me expand on scribe’s theories of either a Staybehind or as we both wrote, Cheney already has copies.

      The Staybehind theory:

      The information contained in these 2 CIA documents is almost certainly classified at the Top Secret level, and with further highly limited access classification of a code-word Sensitive Compartmented Information – (SCI).

      Typically, when folks with Top Secret/SCI clearance leave government, their access to specific Top Secret/SCI materials and programs is removed.

      And again typically, access to Top Secret/SCI materials and programs is usually documented by security weenies for those Top Secret/SCI programs and materials by either Title/Position or User Name.

      I don’t think there are Title/Position categories on access lists for folks like Ex-Vice President, Ex-President, Ex-CIA Director, Ex-Attorney General.

      And I also don’t believe the security weenies responsible for those Top Secret/SCI programs would go update their access lists to add Ex-Vice President Dick Cheney by name.

      Specifically important here is the fact that even if a person once had access to any Top Secret/SCI materials and programs, they are no longer on the access list once they leave government.

      The security weenies responsible for those Top Secret/SCI programs and materials are charged with ensuring that access lists are current and up-to-date with ex-government employees removed as soon as that information is known.

      So, back to the Staybehind theory. In this theory, Cheney contacts a Staybehind at most probably the CIA (but not necessarily) and requests the Staybehind find out the name of these CIA memos Cheney remembers “proving” highly valuable information was obtained from torturing High Value Detainees.

      Ummm…there’s a couple problems here! Did Cheney call the Staybehind on the phone, and discuss code-worded Top Secret/SCI documents that Cheney is no longer legally privy to over an non-secure telephone line/cell phone?

      Major fookin’ security violation! And punishable by some major fookin’ prison time!

      Did Cheney meet with the Staybehind on a park bench across from the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool, and discuss code-worded Top Secret/SCI documents that Cheney is no longer legally privy to?

      Again, major fookin’ security violation! And punishable by some major fookin’ prison time!

      Cheney already has copies theory:

      As mentioned in the Staybehind theory above, these CIA documents are almost certainly classified code-worded Top Secret/SCI.

      If Cheney retained copies of these classified code-worded Top Secret/SCI CIA documents, after he left government, and after he was no longer on the access list, then again, major fookin’ security violation! And punishable by some major fookin’ prison time!

      And another point: SCI material has extremely rigid storage requirements!

      SCI material must be stored in a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF)!

      As far as I know, all SCIFs are in government-maintained facilities and have all kinds of major security including armed guards, video cameras, alarms, and personnel access controls that validate right of SCI access, and log the very same.

      Now Cheney may have himself a man-sized safe or two at his homes and private office, but I rather doubt they are SCIFs controlled and run by US government security weenies.

      If Cheney retained copies of these classified code-worded Top Secret/SCI CIA documents at his homes or private office, after he left government, and after he was no longer on the access list, and outside of a government-controlled and maintained SCIF, then again, major fookin’ security violation! And punishable by some major fookin’ prison time!

      • BoxTurtle says:

        It’s not necessarily a security violation if Dick has copies. It is very common for the ex-pres and ex-VP to continue to receive classified briefings, either at their request or at the request of a president who wants help. I know Clinton consulted with Bush the First frequently.

        But that info still must be kept in an SCIF. The national archives qualifies and I bet it’s stored there.

        Boxturtle (Looking forward to the docs that Cheney did NOT request)

        • MadDog says:

          It’s not necessarily a security violation if Dick has copies. It is very common for the ex-pres and ex-VP to continue to receive classified briefings, either at their request or at the request of a president who wants help.

          Ah-ha! I knew someone would bring this up, and unfortunately, it had to be you. *g*

          SCI stuff is the most restricted of all secret information! There is almost no way that Cheney would be allowed to remain on any of thousands of Sensitive Compartmented Information access lists.

          Take it from one who’s been there, done that. This is just not done!

          General, non-SCI Top Secret briefing stuff? Sure, I can buy that. But no way Jose, on Sensitive Compartmented Information!

          Your move. *g*

      • bobschacht says:

        How about this alternative?

        Cheney has his own personal notes on these documents.
        As to what those notes include, could go anywhere from characterization of the documents contents (e.g., “Proves that torture works”), to more detailed quotes or paraphrases of substantive matters, along with precise reference information.

        As you point out, there are security regulations here; but exactly where is the line drawn?

        Bob in HI

        • emptywheel says:

          Absolutely brilliant insight. After all, we know he’s a note-taker, particularly when he’s pissed. (see, for example, his manic notes on Joe Wilson’s op-ed)

          • bobschacht says:

            EW-
            Thanks for the pat on the back, but this kinda falls into the “Well, duh!” category for me. Or don’t people take personal notes any more?

            Maybe its just that Darth and I are of an age.

            Bob in HI

            • emptywheel says:

              Oh, I take personal notes, believe me. I just think it’s brilliant bc Cheney’s note-taking is what might have done him in with the Plame leak, if Scooter weren’t such a loyal soldier.

        • MadDog says:

          Any notes taken from Sensitive Compartmented Information would itself require that very same level of restricted access classification.

          SOP all across the entire government.

          • bobschacht says:

            Thanks for supplying the legal answer to my question. But do you think Cheney feels bound by such legal strictures?

            Would that restriction even apply to cryptic notes like

            “Torture Justification Doc. xyz” ?

            Of course, if his notes were that cryptic, he could place a request for these documents justifying torture, and then burn his original note. He now has the substance of his note in the request, so he has no further need for his (illegal) handwritten note.

            Bob in HI

            • MadDog says:

              I’m glad you brought that up.

              As many have mentioned, Cheney was an inveterate note-taking scribbler.

              The problem with “cryptic” notes would be that they aren’t likely specific enough to make a document request given the massive volumes of government classified paper.

              On the other hand, a very specific note, such as “CIA memo dated blah-blah on Intelligence gained from torture of High Value Detainees”, would very likely fall into the category requiring the same Top Secret/SCI classification as the original memo.

              Too vague and the archivists can’t find what you want. Too specific and it has to be the same Top Secret/SCI classification. And stored in a SCIF!

              And if Cheney has notes that have that the same Top Secret/SCI classification that he is no longer eligible to access, he is in serious violation of US security laws.

    • SebastianDangerfield says:

      It’s (a). Cheney buried Easter Eggs painted by his own minions for just such an occasion.

  2. Palli says:

    Cheney is so delusional, nothing will crack his view of the world. If he believes in God, it is not a God I know.

    Scribe: He plans well and it was a short list anyway. I doubt if there were too many documents that could have served this purpose; Cheney wasn’t one to waste time and it would have taken more imagination than could be mustered to be convincing anyway. He was (is) working hard holding the criminal conspiracy together afterall.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      I think Big Dick knows exactly what he’s doing, and what the risks and stakes are. He’s not smart in a lot of ways, his policies often failed miserably and his publicly stated facts were often wrong, disastrously so. But he’s very street smart and knows Congress and the federal bureaucracy as well as anyone. (Addington likewise, though he’s technically smarter about national security law.)

      He thinks he’s entitled to whatever he wants and that, ultimately, he’ll get it. And get away with it. I think the Greeks had a word for it.

  3. MadDog says:

    EW, consider an additional point:

    How does Cheney know the exact number of pages of these documents?

    Is it because he has total recall? Not fookin’ likely!

    Is it because he already has copies of these documents? Bloody fookin’ likely!

    Of course, he can’t say that he’s got copies, because that is, you know, against the fookin’ law!

    But what he can do, is request them from NARA, as you say, to cherry-pick his proof!

    I have zero, nada, zilch doubt that he already has copies of these and many other classified documents, and by doG, he’s not gonna give ‘em back!

  4. emptywheel says:

    That maybe true–but I was wondering whether the two forms is due to a misdescription of them first. So he asks for them, but doesn’t know how many pages they now have. And then they go and find them and list the real total page count.

  5. klynn says:

    Were these two docs ever given to the 9-11 Commission; especially, if “effectiveness” was the focus of the docs?

    • emptywheel says:

      The 2005 one came after the report. The 2004 one probably was available. But the 9/11 Commission wasn’t assessing the interrogation except insofar as their crappiness made it impossible to get answers.

  6. Mary says:

    OT and not all that earth shattering, but tieing some threads while I’m thinking of them.

    We had Soufan’s op ed where he said he raised issues with his chain about the abusive interrogations (pre-August memo) he saw.

    In your SSCI timeline piece, you noted that Daniel Levin (go figure?) not Wainstein was the FBI COS involved in the July 13 meeting. SO I thought I’d tie that with this:

    http://www.aclu.org/pdfs/safef…..58_107.pdf

    Director Mueller’s former Chief of Staff, Daniel Levin, told the OIG that in the context of the Zubaydah interrogation, he attended a meeting at the National Security Council (NSC) at which CIA techniques were
    discussed. Levin stated that a DOJ Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) attorney
    gave advice at the meeting about the legality of CIA interrogation
    techniques. Levin stated that in connection with this meeting, or immediately after it, FBI Director Mueller decided that FBI agents would not participate in interrogations involving techniques the FBI did not normally use in the United States, even though OLC had determined such techniques were legal. Levin stated he agreed with this decision because FBI agents were not trained to use such techniques, using such techniques might create problems for FBI agents who needed to testify in court, and other agencies were available to do it.

    and from a footnote, 77,

    We also interviewed Daniel Levin, Director Mueller’s former Chief of Staff. Levin left the FBI in September 2002, before many of the agents’ concerns about the AI-Qahtani interrogations had been raised with Headquarters. However, he said he was aware of general concerns regarding the effectiveness of the techniques the DOD and others were using at GTMO. He stated that the FBI’s assessment was that the detainee interviews at GTMO were not eliciting much useful information, and this led to a debate about whether there was a better way to handle these detainees.

    fwiw

  7. Mary says:

    You know, the push should be on for the Cheney call to go both ways – I seem to remember a tape or transcriptoin of Cheney being interviewed in Plame that no one released (or the interview of Bush for that matter, and there was some Energy Task Force meetings that we’ve never had a shot at, and …

    Cheney is right – the discussions should be robust and the American public has a right to know.

  8. valletta says:

    This whole thing is becoming so bizarre and harder and harder for anyone to defend.
    How can anyone say that torture is effective when neither AZ nor KSM gave up any higher levels (Osama)?
    Cofer Black talked about bring OBL’s head back on a pike back in September of 2001!

    As an aside from today’s article in NYT: does anyone really believe that Cheney, the man who fuzzed out his house on Google Earth, who carried a hazmat suit with him everywhere, who lived in the bunker after the anthrax attacks, NOW drives himself to Starbuck’s in McLean Virginia for lattes?! Riiiigght….let’s hear from the barrista who has the pleasure to serve His Evilness and I still won’t believe it.

  9. wavpeac says:

    His grasp on the construction of our reality is weakening. And I would not be surprised if Cheney gets really critically ill or dies very soon. The stress must be unbelievable. I was thinking of this yesterday while watching Liz Cheney. She was desperate, panicked, and a little, just a little too forceful in her need to convince. It was just a tinge, but it was in her voice and the way she “needed” to interrupt. I keep thinking what the stress might be like for those criminally involved as they watch the news. And then the big picture and how all this criminal behavior links together…If I were cheney or bush, I would be thinking of a way to escape or avoid consequences. I would be looking for my way out.

    • Palli says:

      I wonder if, as evil as Cheney is, he is really not doing this for himself, he serves higher masters.
      If he saves himself he endangers them greatly. I don’t think he is looking for a way out. He has been living with a death sentence of a heart a long time. He sees himself as the fix it man and he wants to be up to the task, earn his keep, so to speak. Cheney will go with his boots and dark glasses on. None too soon because we won’t get any truth from him and his passing might stir the pot.

  10. ffein says:

    Mary…slightly OT, Jim White has “An Open Letter To Senators Whitehouse, Leahy and Feingold: What About The Children?” on Oxdown. It speaks to many of your concerns.

  11. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Cheney’s selection of documents appears to be like searching the abstracts for research proposals, because they contain supportive statements (if only hypotheses), while ignoring actual research results. Why bother, when they fail to validate the question asked or, in fact, prove its opposite?

    It’s all about power for Big Dick. Nothing else seems to matter. Pity he wasn’t born about 1100. I can see him in cardinal red silken robes while underlings sweat to define how many angels fit onto the end of a pin, or while heretics slowly divulge their sins in the arms of the iron maiden. He’d have fit right in, unless he was born to flail wheat and glean fields.

  12. reader says:

    Cheney (and Addington) wrote these documents themselves. Mark my words. That explains all of this.

    Apparently we don’t *bother* prosecuting security violations anymore.

    Cheney doesn’t even know what Starbuck’s is. That NYT piece must be a pr construction to ”soften” up his image. If you believe that shit, then you are probably also working through the list of books that Bush & Rove read last year.

    • Styve says:

      Loved the line…

      If you believe that shit, then you are probably also working through the list of books that Bush & Rove read last year.

      Lucky I wasn’t drinking coffee at the time!

  13. Citizen92 says:

    @MadDog

    As you have made clear in previous posts, with Dick, it’s always about the documents.

    I have no doubt that he spirited all of the briefings he wanted out of his man-sized safe in the OEOB and into his newly constructed home in McLean. Is there a SCIF there? Who knows. You can see the building permits online from Fairfax County, maybe you could request the construction plans from the County to see what he really built.

    Dick being Dick, he probably does have a full-fledged SCIF in his St. Michaels MD home since he did own that place when he was VEEP.

    Dick I’m sure took the SCI reports under the guise of his Congressional ego (Congress keeps their own files) but realizes that he can’t credibly get the info out since those items are controlled by the exec branch (and Dick, wearing his Pres of Senate hat, was unlikely cleared for SCI material by the Senate). Same reson probably that Addington was a WH employee instead of a Senate employee — access.

    Whether Dick then re-classified the CIA’s reports using his own unique to OVP classification, well, I wonder about that… That’s why I think he did the FOIA to the archives. Because the Archives wouldn’t know what to make of a ”Treat as NSI/Code A RRX” classification” and might just release it.

    Cheney threw his back out moving boxes prior to Inaugural Day. I think its pretty clear what was in those boxes, and why Dick had to move them.

    • MadDog says:

      I have no doubt that he spirited all of the briefings he wanted out of his man-sized safe in the OEOB and into his newly constructed home in McLean. Is there a SCIF there? Who knows.

      As I linked to in my comment at # 16, SCIFs are extremely tightly-controlled, tightly-monitored, and tightly-guarded government facilities.

      If Cheney had one when he was VP, now that he is no longer a VP, such a SCIF would have been decommissioned by the security weenies and all material either destroyed, transferred to NARA, or returned to the originator.

      Hanging onto classified material can get one in big fookin’ trouble!

  14. perris says:

    “it is difficult to determine conclusively whether interrogations have provided information critical to interdicting specific imminent attacks”–

    what’s NOT difficult to determine is the FACT that we create terrorists and terrorist threats by torturing

    that is not difficult determining at all

    not to mention the fact that we become the enemy to those who might have been our aly

    not to mention the fact that policies of torture PREVENT someone from comming forward with information they WOULD have come forward had you NOT had those policies

    for every person you torture you’ve turne their entire family into terrorists, every friend, every friends friend into a terrorist

    those issues are clear

  15. TarheelDem says:

    The date on the form is 3/31/2009. Is not that before the release of the three torture memos?

    One statement about this said that the original request was for working on his memoirs. Is that true, or just snark?

    Be interested to know what prompted the 3/31 request.

    • perris says:

      I still want to know who recruited those involved in the torture program, I am willing to bet they are recruited by eather cheney himself of a member of his team b

      • TarheelDem says:

        Yep, I am curious about that too. Exactly who brought James Mitchell forward as an “expert”?

    • SparklestheIguana says:

      Cheryl Gay Stolberg says it’s true:

      Even before Mr. Obama released secret memorandums on the interrogation techniques approved by the Bush administration, Mr. Cheney, as part of researching his memoir, had asked the National Archives to declassify two other documents he contends would show that harsh interrogations produced useful information, according to his daughter Liz, who is helping him organize and write the memoir.

  16. Citizen92 says:

    I think a law enforcement agency needs to raid his McLean and St. Michaels homes.

    Got any good reasons? Barking dogs? Illegal immigrant gardeners? National security violations?

    I’ve been scouring for info on ”James E Steen” Cheney’s personal archivist mentioned in Gellman’s book. Steen was on Darth’s senate office payroll throughout the Bush Admin. And Steen was on the DoD payroll when Dick was SecDef. Steen reported to David Gribben, who was head of DoD Legislative Affairs… And a high school friend of Dicks.

    Don’t forget that Addington was a wanna be Archivist too. Jane Mayer’s 05 New Yorker article mentioned that Addingtons house (and extensive collection of memoribilia and documents) was damaged/destroyed by fire.

    All about the documents.

  17. Rickbrewxx says:

    Marcy,

    Can you, or perhaps Greg Sergent or someone else do an FOIA request on the same documents Dick Cheney is requesting and add to the FOIA request the other documents that you have written about?

    If Cheney gets his request approved, it seems likely that the same process going through most of the same people will result in the release of all or most of those documents. That would be true journalistic coup (to consider the results most narrowly.)

    I’d do it, but I have neither the time nor the skills.

  18. cinnamonape says:

    I f Dickie want’s these documents (and only those documents) then my suspicion is that all the other documents either retract, correct, clarify, reverse, falsify or downplay the claims in those documents.

    We want the other documents released to!

    And, in fact, since these would be more likely to be ABSENT any actionable intelligence they should be much more easily declassified than something that actually claimed an imminent attack. The latter might revea classifiedl assets and individuals that were involved in a countermeasure. In the former it would be less likely to inadvertantly reveal an active plan…since there would be none needed.

  19. perris says:

    from talking points memo who referances akerman but I don’t have time to track down the original source to here’s tpm with a conversation to himself and his readers;

    Late Update: I’ll leave it to others more expert than I am in the timeline of the evolution of our torture policy to figure out where those two CIA reports fit in, but I’m a little surprised at first glance by how late those reports are dated, coming well after the 2002 capture of Abu Zubaydah and the 2003 capture of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

    Later Update: Ask and ye shall receive. Spencer Ackerman explains why those dates are significant. The point here is that by 2004-05, the Administration’s self-justification for its torture policy was well underway. These reports are not contemporaneous accounts of what intelligence the torture yielded. Rather, the CIA and Cheney were papering the file well after the fact.

  20. JimWhite says:

    OT: Heh. ProPublica is channeling Marcy. Handy side-by-side comparisons of passages from torture memos alongside ICRC report. Marcy’s already hit on essentially everything there, but the info is in a very accessible format.

    ffein: Most of what I know on the topic of the children I learned from Mary’s comments or from ondelette’s writings at Humanity Against Crimes.

  21. perris says:

    raw story has an EXCLUSIVE right on topic;

    Exclusive: RAW finds evidence that detainee’s torture
    may have produced false terror alerts in 2005

    A few snippets;

    This second version appears to be supported by a number of external facts. One is that in 2005, the CIA destroyed all videotapes of Abu Zubaydah’s interrogation from prior to August 1, even though taping had begun in April.

    There were also two peculiar episodes of heightened security alerts in the US in April and May, which were said at the time to have been based on information obtained from Abu Zubaydah. These vague and ultimately implausible threats gave a strong impression that Abu Zubaydah might have been inventing al Qaeda plots simply to satisfy his interrogators.

    • perris says:

      These vague and ultimately implausible threats gave a strong impression that Abu Zubaydah might have been inventing al Qaeda plots simply to satisfy his interrogators.

      hey, wait a minute!

      didn’t someone here or at the lake make that point already?

  22. MadDog says:

    I’ll make one further point (at least *g*).

    Even “discussing” SCI after you are no longer on that very same SCI access list, is a fookin’ criminal offense!

    Stuff you learned under SCI access must be in essence, forgotten after you no longer are on that SCI access list.

    I know it sounds crazy, but that’s the government for you. *g*

  23. Citizen92 says:

    I don’t believe SCIF’s have to be government (owned) facilities. Several companies in the DC area, for example, advertise that they have SCIF’s.. ETG group of Herndon, for example. ETG is clearly a government contractor, but boasts ”the company has leased 13100 sq ft of office space… ETG’s office includes a secure compartimentalized information facility (SCIF)…”

    • MadDog says:

      I don’t believe SCIF’s have to be government (owned) facilities. Several companies in the DC area, for example, advertise that they have SCIF’s.

      This is true. Perhaps it would be better to call SCIFs “government-accredited”, rather than “owned” or even “managed”.

      The oversight is still by the government’s security weenies.

      In the case of Cheney, it would be hard to see why if he ever had one at his homes or private office, that he would continue to have one after he left government and his SCI access was removed.

  24. freepatriot says:

    so cheney has documents that say torture is effective

    who didn’t see that coming ???

    cheney probably has documents that say saddam was funding osama bin laden

    and I got documents that say Horton heard a Who

    it’s called FICTION, folks

    any fool can write a bunch of shit down on paper

    doesn’t make it true

    lets apply empirical observation to the process. there is a LOT of empirical data on torture

    if cheney wants to add his rambling delusion to the pile, I don’t care
    I don’t think dick cheney has any new technical knowledge on the topic, but I’m willing to let the SCIENTISTS rip him a new asshole

    back in the 1980s, when two asshats announced that they had a workable theory for table top fusion, they just destroyed their careers

    cheney is playing with a death sentence here

    which techniques would you like to defend, mr cheney ???

    submit any document you like (sucker)

  25. wavpeac says:

    The idea, like so much of this mess, kind of makes me sick, to think that every terror alert, or rise in terror level, might represent the torture that was going on behind the scenes. Like the lullaby that plays at the hospital every time a baby is born only gruesome and sick.

  26. Rayne says:

    Let’s play “Carnac the Magnificent” and be mind-readers for a moment. I’ll bet you Cheney or Addington requested these reports from CIA, and that’s why Deadeye knows as much as he reveals in the FOIA.

    It’s like the Rizzo report by Bradbury.

    The reports will read something like this:

    “You have asked us to address whether certain “enhanced interrogation techniques” employed by the Central Intelligence Agency (”CIA”) in the interrogation of high value al Qaeda detainees have been effective in obtaining intelligence for the purposes of anti-terror activities. We conclude that use of these techniques, subject to the CIA’s careful screening criteria and limitations and its medical safeguards that intelligence was successfully obtained and deployed.”

    This is exactly what a professional ass-covering corporate vice president-type would ask of his minions in order to preserve his role within the corporation.

    And all Deadeye has to do is refer to a log of documents he ordered in 2004 and 2005 in order to call them up.

    The question I have: who wrote these things?

    No doubt they will contain the same kinds of circumlocution we’ve already seen and the wingnuts’ Wurlitzer is already working on ramping up a PR program to meet the release of the documents.

    Assuming, of course, that the SCI status will be overcome and Deadeye hasn’t tried an end-run on us: “Oh, oops, I guess that super-secret info about the success we had saving your asses can’t be released. My bad.

  27. SparklestheIguana says:

    Interesting how these memos are in Box #1. Suggests they were the first files he packed up. But why would the memo length change? Were the pages counted right before the files were boxed, or when the memos were first issued?

  28. perris says:

    Cheney Cherry Picks Intelligence Again

    I want to make a quick point here

    Cheney didn’t hand pick “intelligence”, to get us into Iraq, he hand picked “data” that was manufactured, the “intelligence” told us Saddam was no threat and the WMD’s were long gone, the “data” was manufactured by the same “team b” he created to undermine Nixon’s détente

  29. WilliamOckham says:

    I a couple of minor points of order to make here. First, this is not an FOIA request. This is a request for a Mandatory Declassification Review for two specific documents from Cheney’s files. It says right on the form:

    OVP Cheney Immediate Office Files
    Box: 1
    Folder title: Detainees.

    Second, the request doesn’t have to be honored if it is the documents in question are the subject of litigation. I wonder if these documents fall under the ACLU’s FOIA.

    Lastly, MDR’s can be requested only for specific documents. Maybe ew should request all those documents that were released as part of the Libby trial. Plus any that were referred to directly. At the very least, it might make Cheney and Bush get into a fight over executive privilege…

    • MadDog says:

      I a couple of minor points of order to make here. First, this is not an FOIA request. This is a request for a Mandatory Declassification Review for two specific documents from Cheney’s files. It says right on the form…

      Nice catch!

  30. perris says:

    this is going to get very interesting if not contestuous;

    The U.S. is obligated by a United Nations convention to prosecute Bush administration lawyers who allegedly drafted policies that approved the use of harsh interrogation tactics against terrorism suspects, the U.N.’s top anti-torture envoy said Friday.

  31. leftdcin72 says:

    Cheney was presumably never authorized to release any of the contents or the substance or the sense of the subject memos prior to obtaining permission to do so or obtaining the memos through the FOIA. Did Cheney violate any law or regulation with respect to his disclosure of the contents and conclusions contained in the subject memos on Fox and is Fox a co-conspirator to any unauthorized disclosure,

  32. msmolly says:

    Sorta OT: why is the Digg box still at the top of FDL posts, and why are people still Digging????

  33. reader says:

    you must understand … Cheney has magical classification and declassification powers and he needs no permission. and it’s all in the interests of our safety and security. yeah.

    and I’ll say it again, mark my words, Cheney and Addington are the originators of these documents. If they weren’t considered classified they would already be debunked by other information in the public domain.

    I want EVERYTHING released.

  34. anwaya says:

    It’s all very amusing this game, “was torture ever an effective way of obtaining information”, but in the end –

    If it wasn’t effective, and every time it wasn’t effective, it was a crime. And any time it was effective, it was still a crime. Dick doesn’t begin to deny it, he’s gone straight to arguing mitigation.

    And I for one think that life imprisonment for former Vice President Dick Cheney isn’t too high a price to pay for the restoration of the Rule of Law in the U.S. In fact, it would be just a good start. So by all means, get him there, he’s already confessed, we’re shaking out the details.

    But even if some awful plot was averted, one of the costs of the awful crime must surely be Dick’s freedom. And Yoo. And Bybee. And so on.

    • MadDog says:

      If it wasn’t effective, and every time it wasn’t effective, it was a crime. And any time it was effective, it was still a crime. Dick doesn’t begin to deny it, he’s gone straight to arguing mitigation.

      Well said!

  35. reader says:

    .. including ALL records of {fake} Congressional briefings and who heard exactly what when.

    okthxbai.

  36. Twain says:

    Marcy, I can’t believe the posts you are writing….do you ever sleep? Thanks much for all you do.

  37. CalGeorge says:

    If torture is to be considered justified because it works, the Geneva Conventions will have to be revised.

    Will Dick Cheney agree to lead an international panel of torture experts to re-write the conventions on torture? He’s the one with all of the experience, after all.

    He could find a few co-panelists in Saudi Arabia and in the “banana republics” that the Republicans love to deride.

    And Obama could appoint Cheney to head the panel – in the spirit of bipartisanship and looking forward to a world where torture is internationally accepted.

  38. reader says:

    It’s even worse: ALL of this shit is distraction.

    1) ALL detainee abuse contravenes the Geneva Conventions.
    2) All detainee abuse liberates other treaty parties to use the same abuse against us.
    3) Waterboarding is torture: the US has executed people for waterboarding BECAUSE it is torture.
    4) Torture is against the Treaty Against Torture.

    Results, legalitites, mistakes, intentions, fear, national security, etc. do not matter.

    The nation has descended into a rat hole of madness.

  39. Citizen92 says:

    WO – you point out an important distinction.

    Cheney actually filed a ”Presidential Libraries Mandatory Review” NA Form 14020. NA Form 10420 looks like a dusty piece of bureaucracy, whose last versioning update was 1991. Very Cheney-esque.

    Furthermore, googling that form only leads back to hits on the Nixon Library. (Interesting sidenote that Nixon’s materials only recently came under control of NARA… For years the family retained control).

    Also interesting to note, use of Form 10420 was governed by Clinton Exec Order 12958… But guess what, Bush ”updated” that EO with his own Executive Order 13292 on March 25, 2003, which apparently changed the rules on Mandatory Declassification.

    Did EO 13292 somehow enable Cheney to do something that EO 12958 did not?

  40. Rayne says:

    More playing at “Carnac the Magnificent” and mind-reading:

    Not only will I bet the documents were requested by Cheney/Addington from CIA, but that the triggers were the Taguba report in 2004 and whatever precipitated Jello Jay’s request for the torture tapes in 2005. Both probably spooked Deadeye into wall papering.

    It’ll be interesting to see the request dates if they surface.

  41. Propagandee says:

    One thing is immediately clear from this request: Cheney is cherry-picking the documents that will prove his case (I know. You’re shocked.) Cheney doesn’t request, after all, the roughly 6 pages of the CIA IG Report which directly addresses the efficacy of torture in collecting intelligence,…

    Sounds like the same trick Cheney played with Bob Graham when he was running the Senate Intel Committee. Graham asked for a declassified version of the Iraq intel report, and got back everything but the caveats which were contained in a “classified” attachment.

  42. burqa says:

    If the release of these classified documents will not harm the national interest, someone needs to ask Cheney why he did not release such flattering documents when he was in power.

    The guy is a bullshit artist and needs to have his bluff called.
    Same with Addington.

  43. pkdu says:

    Just a little aside about Cheney’s request (as pointed out above , its a Presidential Libraries Mandatory Review Request)…. in January of this year he “lost” in court trying to exempt his records from the Presidential Records Act on leaving office – and essentially be able to taake it all with him. The judge said that she would “But she also said she would “rely on a sworn promise by O’Donnell that everything the vice president does is assigned by the president and, thus, covered by the law.”
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..03042.html

    What would be interesting to see for starters is the index/contents-list for the boxes.

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