Talkin Turkey Trash

Here it is, another big bird day! That means football and we have some trash to talk.

Some Preliminaries: ESPN has been reporting that the Buffalo Bills and Mike Shanahan had a seven hour sit down, and there is serious interest on both sides; we shall see. In other Bills news, Jim Kelly thinks Trent Edwards is a nice guy, but is why the Bills are finishing last. Notre Dame has cancelled all of Charlie Weiss’ recruiting trips, that were already set up for after the Stanford game that ends the season. Not a good sign; put a fork in him and carve him up, this turkey is cooked. Oh, and former Eagles offensive lineman Jon Runyan is going to run for Congress in New Jersey – just as soon as he is through joining the Bolts for the rest of the season. Clearly more worried about himself and money than learning issues and actually doing the dirty work of being a politician, he ought to be the perfect Republican.

The Games: First up we have Cheesers at Kittens. Young Matthew Stafford’s willingness, make that determination in the face of his coaches, to get in for the last play of the game last weekend versus the Brownies, and win the game with a TD pass on the last play earned him the team, and its respect, for good. He was already the man; but boy did that seal the deal. He is a stud and threw for 422 yards and five, count em five, TDs last week. Stafford has a hurt non-throwing shoulder; if he can’t go, which is likely, Duante Culpepper will get the nod. The Packers also had a big win over the 49ers, but lost Al Harris and Aaron Kampman for the year in the process. The Pack’s O Line is getting healthier, and not a minute too soon for Aaron Rodgers, who has takin a lickin and kept on tickin this year. This should be a surprisingly good game, especially if Stafford can go.

Next up is da Rayduhs versus the ‘Boys. Yeah, I dunno what to think here. Both these teams are infuriating. Oakland has a great defense and should not have been nearly as lame as it has been on offense. They have some players, I just think Jamarcus Russell has been a lead weight around their neck. But he is benched, and Bruce Gradkowski is at the helm now, and they are responding. Dallas, on the other hand, is 7-3 but has just sucked. Seven godamned points against the Redskins? Come on man. The Cowboys need this game though, because the Giants might be waking up. It is in Dallas, the ‘Boys usually win Turkey Day games at home, so I will go with them. If this game was in Oakland I wouldn’t though.

Last, but not least, we have the aforementioned Gents traveling to Mile High to visit the Donkos. As RanDiego keeps saying, the Broncs really need to think about wearing them striped socks and butt ugly unis for the rest of the year; they are a good luck charm. Two things are crippling Denver lately; Kyle Orton is hurt and they got nobody else (Simms is nice, but really sucks) and their new defense has been seen and schemed now. Most of all, Brian Dawkins, the key and soul to the D, has been hurt with a neck injury. Dawkins should play, if he is up to speed, that makes a HUGE difference. Still, Eli is feeling better with his foot and the Gents are coming around. I’ll take them tonight.

In honor of turkey day, how could today’s music not come from the Yardbirds? Happy Thanksgiving folks, and my thanks to one and all for being our friends and partners in the never ending expedition that is Emptywheel.

63 replies
  1. emptywheel says:

    Yeah, I’m with you: ‘Boys would lose in Oakland. Still, the Raiders are on a bit of a roll, taking out division leaders. And turkey day is always a weird day for football.

    In other news, btw, the citizens of greater Detroit will be able to see today’s game, unlike the win that broke the losing streak, and unlike last week’s heroism from Stafford. It’s just the second home game this year that is not blacked out (the other being the Stillers game, I think).

    So we’re bound to lose, unfortunately.

  2. emptywheel says:

    Oh, and one more thing. Got bumped up to first class on Sunday coming back from the ginormous steak dinner MadDog generously fed me. And there was a guy in what was likely a paid First class seat connecting through to Buffalo. Got ALL squirmy when I asked what kind of business anyone had in Buffalo.

    He wasn’t Shanahan, though (I would have recognized the bad fake teeth). Who knows, though–looked like he might be a football guy.

  3. scribe says:

    Please, please, please, oh football Gods, in the name of all that is holy and especially John Madden’s six-legged roast turkeys, make it so the Raiders beat the Owboys.

    I’ll need them to lose, so I can have something to toss back at the middle of the boat come next summer’s fishing trip to stave off all the smack the Owboys fan in the middle will be tossing at me because Steely McBeam* keeps showing up and waving kryptonite in front of my Stillers.

    * A walking, talking invitation to a sock in the jaw, if there ever was one. I keep getting this from the Owboys fan.

    So, football Gods, please, please, please throw me the tiny grace of an Owboys loss on national TV, on Thanskgiving, to the Raiders.

      • scribe says:

        Yes it would but right now, having put the duck in the oven, I’m watching the dog show, so we can see the Gordon Setter.

    • AirportCat says:

      Well, if the Raiders don’t do you the favor, you always have Saturday (12/19) evening to look forward to, when the ‘Girls have to go visit DREW FOOKIN BREES in the ‘Dome.

  4. Jim White says:

    Thanks for the early helping of (Yard)bird(s), that really got the appetite going.

    We also have a few college games this weekend, with the top three trying not to stumble against traditional rivals before their conference championship games next weekend. I look for all three to win, with the most “likely” upset being Auburn pulling some magic over Alabama (but not all that likely).

    College roundball is also getting geared up, and I’ll find out if my Gators have anything tomorrow evening when they take on the Green folks from Marcy’s state. Billy D. might actually have re-loaded this year. We finally have a real center (Vernon Macklin, 6’10” transfer from Georgetown) and a great freshman guard (Kenny Boynton) who is playing like someone with much more experience. My twelve year old is going to try to get the same number for her basketball uniform as “Rod” Tishman, a freshman guard signed out of Israel. He hasn’t seen much playing time, but every time he gets onto the floor, we both shout “Nimrod!” at the TV. His real name is Nimrod, but he’s listed on the roster at Rod. My daughter just can’t stop giggling…

  5. 4jkb4ia says:

    I am worried about that Giants-Broncos game. The Broncos cannot possibly lose 5 in a row.
    Oakland winning would be marvelous, but is probably in miracle territory.

    If anyone saw Nick Kristof today, the “elohim” in Psalm 82 is translated as “judges” by um, commentators because it is convenient. You have another example in Exodus where “before elohim” is translated as “before a judge” by Rashi.
    However, the introduction to “Duties of the Heart” has a terrific series of prooftexts for “Don’t be a hypocrite”. Most of them are from Isaiah 1.

    • bobschacht says:

      the “elohim” in Psalm 82 is translated as “judges” by um, commentators because it is convenient. You have another example in Exodus where “before elohim” is translated as “before a judge” by Rashi.
      However, the introduction to “Duties of the Heart” has a terrific series of prooftexts for “Don’t be a hypocrite”. Most of them are from Isaiah 1.

      And what breed of commentaters are they? ‘Elohim’ is the plural form of one of the principal word for “God” in the Jewish Bible (our “Old Testament”)– Yes, the plural form is troublesome, but the word is a key word in identifying one of the two earliest sources of the Hebrew Pentateuch (the Elohist source, or “E”), which contrasts with the “Yahwist” source (in Europe spelled with a “J”).

      and how did this come up?

      Bob in AZ/NM

      • scribe says:

        I think this particular hairball came up because Palin and her lackeys are burnishing their Psalm 109 bumperstickers (about killing corrupt judges, implying the Biblical acceptability of whacking pols they don’t like), and sane people might be trying to out-Bible them.

        Sort of a fools’ errand, if you ask me, b/c the Palinites are living in a closed universe where their inerpretation of Scripture Rules.

        If I were confronted with someone of that ilk trying to take over the conversation, I have a stock set of questions which work, so long as the laws of logic are not suspended.

        Q. You believe in an almighty God who created everything, knows everyting that is going on, is everywhere, and is omnipotent, correct?

        (They have to admit this as “yes”.)

        Q. You do agree that being omnipotent means there is nothing which can defeat God or even withstand God, correct?

        (They have to admit this, otherwise they wind up falling into a blasphemy in which there are other Gods which are more powerful than the one they worship.)

        Q. (alternate #1, for use with those fond of petitionary prayer or telling God what is wrong with someone else) How is it, then, that an omniscient God needs you to tell him what needs doing or would listen to your telling him what is wrong in his creation (where he is everywhere, anyway)?

        The correct answer (again, assuming logic is not suspended) is that the omniscient God does not need to be told what is “wrong”, nor would he appreciate being told by the fundie that a part of his creation (where, being omnipresent, He already is and that part of the creation is therefore already perfect) is out of line and needs to be fixed to the fundie’s liking.

        When they balk on this one they need to be reminded that when they disagree they are, directly, making themselves and their egos/desires superior to the God they pretend to worship. Since you are pointing out their blasphemy (don’t use that term – just ask them to explain the inconsistency), expect a huff and maybe being identified as a demon. But, you have to stand fast and take them back through the logic both of their own belief structure and of pointing out their arrogance and forcing them to explain their inconsistency. At some point, they will come down to either “you wouldn’t understand” or “faith” or “it’s a mystery”, all of which are openings to your saying (in the sweet tone they use for patronizing sanctimony) “well, please explain it to me so I can understand”.

        In alternate #2, you are addressing the argument that God needs help, in the form of what they call “spiritual warfare” or some other physical (or psychological) assault on the “unbeliever”. In this, you use the same methods of questioning, but address it from the perspective that, since God is all powerful, why do they think their puny force can add anything to the discussion.

        Or, if you’re so inclined, you can just say something along the lines of “Shut up before I dump the gravy on you” or “Shut up or I’ll break your jaw.” Neither of those is as effective in closing the discussion because you wind up the bad guy in the discussion.

        • 4jkb4ia says:

          Nice try, but here is the quote from Kristof:

          “Mr. Wright also argues that monotheism emerged only gradually among Israelites, and that the God familiar to us may have resulted from a merger of a creator god, El, and a warrior god, Yahweh. Mr. Wright also argues that monotheism wasn’t firmly established until after the Babylonian exile, and he says that Moses’s point was that other gods shouldn’t be worshiped, not that they shouldn’t exist. For example, he notes the troubling reference to a “divine council” and “gods”–plural–in Psalm 82.” Nothing about Palin or Psalm 109. The theme was about attempts to bridge the gap between fundamentalists and atheists in the view of what religion is and does. I brought this up because “Psalm 82” was my choice for the title for EW’s reality show based on C Street, or at least one of them.

          The question of whether prayer has any effect is tied up with the question of free will. The reason that people have free choice is to choose whether to have a relationship with God, and prayer is part of having that relationship. The more intense the relationship, the more God, however omnipotent, may choose to answer the prayer.

      • 4jkb4ia says:

        On how this came up, see 31.

        The traditional Jewish way of reading the names of God is that “elohim” is the attribute of justice. Most people can perceive “elohim”. YHWH is the attribute of mercy. It is the name that is given to Moses to take the people out of the land of Egypt and connotes more of an intimate relationship. So once you have that “elohim” can become “judge” very simply.
        I said “commentators” because I didn’t know, but Artscroll happily translates “b’adat el” (“divine council”) as “in the midst of judges” and the other reference to “elohim” as “angelic”, for which I assume they have some authority. JPS writes “divine beings” for both. And now my husband would like to go to his mom’s house so I won’t be able to look this up until tomorrow.

  6. AirportCat says:

    If the Saints can handle the Pats on Monday Night, they have a real shot at 16-0. Remaining schedule: at WAS (3-7), at ATL (5-5), DAL (7-3) in the ‘Dome, T-Bay (1-9) in the ‘Dome, and finishing at CAR (4-6). The party Monday Night should be awesome.

      • AirportCat says:

        When I lived there, if you didn’t see the game you could always tell who won anyway just by the way people were feeling the next day. If everyone was generally cheerful, that was a win. A loss, and folks were a little mopey. That city loves its team like no other I’ve seen.

        Dolts also have a shot at 16-0, I agree, but the Texans on Sunday in Houston could also be a tough one.

  7. bobschacht says:

    Hey bmaz,
    I left a question for you back on the torture tape destruction thread, if you’ve got a minute between football games.

    I’m in Albuquerque with my better half, visiting my sister and cousin Kate, so I’m spending T-day with three women who are not into football. So, I’ll eat well, but probably won’t get to see much football!

    Bob from AZ now in NM

  8. scribe says:

    That roughing the passer should have been a facemask.

    How is it that the Kities got so far downfield so quickly? I missed the first couple seconds watching the dogs.

      • bmaz says:

        No pressure on Rodgers today; that has been their problem all year. He and his receivers will carve you up if they are not pressured and being sacked.

  9. randiego says:

    Uh bmaz, what does Crabtree have to do with the Raiduhs/ Cowboys? He plays for the 49ers, yes?

    Also, it’s not me on the Burros striped socks. That’s Petro, if I’m not mistaken.

    Bolts picking up Runyan was a great move by AJ Smith. They lost yet another O-line starter to IR this week. Dude’s a Republican – at this point I don’t care if he’s a Tea-bagging Martian if he can run-block and pass-protect!

    • bmaz says:

      Oh bite me. My head hurts and Crabtree is on some team up there in the Bay area – they both suck, what’s the difference? (I removed that stupidly authored sentence).

      Secondly, I know that deep down you really are a Donkos fan and want them to do well. You love teh socks!

  10. bmaz says:

    Hey, the Lions halftime dancing girls look like they escaped from a Catholic elementary school with uniforms from K-Mart. What’s up with that?

  11. bmaz says:

    Okay, here is some good football related human interest news. From the NYT:

    Charles Woodson wants to be known as more than a football player.

    Donating $2 million to the new University of Michigan Mott Children’s Hospital and Women’s Hospital gives him a chance to do that.

    The school announced Woodson’s gift on Thanksgiving before he played for the Green Bay Packers against the Detroit Lions. The money will support pediatric research by The Charles Woodson Clinical Research Fund in the $754-million, 1.1-million square foot hospital scheduled to open in 2012.

    • john in sacramento says:

      Prolly got the idea from Madieu Williams

      The University of Maryland announced the creation of the Madieu Williams Center for Global Health Initiatives. The $2 million donation from the 28-year-old Williams is the largest gift to the university from an African American alumnus and the largest amount donated by someone his age.

      The university says the center will focus on local, state-wide and global health initiatives, with particular attention to public health initiatives in Prince George’s County, Maryland and Freetown, Sierra Leone.

      • bmaz says:

        Yep, it is way cool, and a very good thing, too.

        My mother was a teacher, not because she had to be, she had the advanced degrees and skills to have done about anything, and the offers over the years to do so, but she loved teaching. One of her favorite students ever along the way was a chap by the name of Randall McDaniel. He was inducted recently into the Hall of Fame and was known as a huge presence in the Minnesota (where he played most all of his career for the Vikings) community, charitable and otherwise. Now my mother was an academic, not even close to being a sports fan. In fact, she hated athletes for the privileges and treatment they received, and was extra hard on them usually. But she loved Randall from the second she met him on his first day in class. He cared about his and others’ education, and she was smitten. Since his retirement, McDaniel has become a teacher and has continued his work and support in the community. He wants to make a difference, not just with money, but with his sweat and life. That is awesomely impressive and admirable.

        We pound on the entitled athletes all the time, and rightfully so. They are all overpaid, and while not all, far too many are self important cancers. But we do not pay enough attention to those that are doing more than the obligatory community service that teams and the NFL mandates, but those that really are standing up and doing. Locally, say what you will about Kurt Warner, and his religious schticht is annoying sometimes, but he and his wife are constantly out putting their time and money where their hearts are. There are a lot like this, and like McDaniel, Woodson and Williams and they should be known, publicized, encouraged and praised.

  12. Jim White says:

    Okay, my pea-sized brain on tryptophan can’t handle this. Why are the ‘boys in dark shirts and the thugs Rayduhs in white? I’m gonna go through the whole game not knowing which team is which…

      • Jim White says:

        That was their thing for many years. They wore white home and away, so they always wore essentially the same uni. The dark home shirts have been around for a few years, but I hate them. [I’m just a traditionalist. When the Gators wear blue pants with their blue shirts, I always grumble.]

        • dakine01 says:

          They’ve had those dark blue jerseys all along but just haven’t worn them that often. For a while there, the blue was looked on as a jinx as they seemed to lose when wearing them. (That’s why a few times, other teams forced the Cowboys to wear them – I forget what the rule is but there are situations where one team gets first choice of jersey to wear and would chose the white jerseys just force the ‘Boys into the blue.)

  13. john in sacramento says:

    I gotta run along for awhile. Happy Turkey Day

    I wrote this the other day, but didn’t post it. It’s about Terrible Ted Thompson and his demolishing of the Packers and thought that phred might be interested. Here’s what I wrote …

    It’s not the fans or the players fault that they have arrogant suckhead pricks in management. I commented in one of the first Trash Talk threads that I didn’t think the defensive personnel was a good match for the new 3-4 defense (which is also pointed out in the link); which is McCarthy’s fault. And it’s not easy to see games from the division like I used to because of where I live, so I didn’t see the problems with the O line, but others did

    From bmaz’s link

    2009 is going to be a tough year for the Packers because Ted Thompson’s refusal to address the offensive line in any significant manner has left this team with a major problem. Clifton & Taucher’s careers are all but officially over as both went down with major injuries this past season and have spent the past three seasons in and out of the lineup due to a large array of physical setbacks. These two men were supposed to be veteran anchors of the offensive line, protecting A-Rodg & opening up holes for Grant however with them faded away and no talented prospects to step into their shoes, next year’s line is going to be a mess. The coaches have spent the past 3 seasons figuring out which new draftee is worst than the next in each interior position and have clearly not come up with an answer. I think the answer is obvious, they all suck and so does Scott Wells. Coaches have lauded the “experience of the young interior players” however that experience means very little since it is split learning 2 and sometimes 3 different positions. How Packers coaches expect to develop these players this way is beyond my logical analysis.

    The offensive line is proof that the Packers are indeed not talented and that Thompson’s plan to build strictly through the draft has set back this team substantially. We need someone who can come in with experience and make a positive impact (without getting injured) immediately, otherwise it’ll be another disappointing season in a row.

  14. randiego says:

    The NFL sucks. It’s a freaking national holiday and your best game of the day is on a network that only 10% of the nation can see.

    Why does the NFL hate its customers?

      • randiego says:

        They’re still in it, but they can’t keep trading TD’s. Sooner or later they’ve got to make a stop. The tackling on that last “drive” was horrible.

        We’re pulling for A&M over here. Heh.

    • dakine01 says:

      Why does the NFL hate its customers?

      Because they’re a bunch of money grubbing bastards that really don’t care for the fans but use them only as the excuse to do something that gives them more scratch, even as it screws said fans?

  15. freepatriot says:

    is this thing on ???

    I finally ran out of pie, but I’m gettin more

    we might need “extended trash” this week

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