Scahill: Prince Is Conducting Graymail

Jeremy Scahill expands the explanation he gave Rachel Maddow last night about what Erik Prince was doing with the Vanity Fair article admitting his role in the CIA (primarily) operations.

The in-depth Vanity Fair profile of the infamous owner of Blackwater, Erik Prince, is remarkable on many levels–not least among them that Prince appeared to give the story’s author, former CIA lawyer Adam Ciralsky, unprecedented access to information about sensitive, classified and lethal operations not only of Prince’s forces, but Prince himself. In the article, Prince is revealed not just as owner of a company that covertly provided contractors to the CIA for drone bombings and targeted assassinations, but as an actual CIA asset himself. While the story appears to be simply a profile of Prince, it might actually be the world’s most famous mercenary’s insurance policy against future criminal prosecution. The term of art for what Prince appears to be doing in the VF interview is graymail: a legal tactic that has been used for years by intelligence operatives or assets who are facing prosecution or fear they soon will be. In short, these operatives or assets threaten to reveal details of sensitive or classified operations in order to ward off indictments or criminal charges, based on the belief that the government would not want these details revealed.

I’m most interested, though, in what Scahill says about the JSOC side of this.

While much of the focus in the Vanity Fair story was on Prince’s work with the CIA, the story also confirmed that Blackwater has an ongoing relationship with the US Special Forces, helping plan missions and providing air support. As The Nation reported, Blackwater has for years been working on a classified contract with the Joint Special Operations Command in a drone bombing campaign in Pakistan, as well as planning snatch-and-grab missions and targeted assassinations. Part of what may be happening behind closed doors is that the CIA is, to an extent, cutting Blackwater and Prince off. But, as sources have told The Nation, the company remains a central player in US Special Forces operations in Pakistan and Afghanistan.[my emphasis]

Those JSOC issues, of course, would be far more inflammatory than the stuff he already revealed about the CIA.

But what I’m most interested in is who the target of this threat is: yes, Blackwater’s role is scandalous (and might make Leon Panetta regret revealing Blackwater to Congress). But there are a whole lot of people who are more worried about what Prince would have to say than Panetta.

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173 replies
  1. ezdidit says:

    What do we call it when John McCain sequesters up 98% of evidence and testimony in illegal White House “fundraising?” Is that Gray Male, too?

  2. MadDog says:

    …Those JSOC issues, of course, would be far more inflammatory than the stuff he already revealed about the CIA…

    …But there are a whole lot of people who are more worried about what Prince would have to say than Panetta.

    Let’s see here:

    Command of JSOC – LTG Stanley McChrystal – September 2003 to June 2008.

    • Jeff Kaye says:

      Or, what would you say if I told you that James Mitchell was working for Special Forces (Delta) when he was approached with the Al Qaeda manual material, and the whole Mitchell-Jessen enterprise was set a-rolling?

      Or what would you say if the CIA psychiatrist I have identified as having used SERE torture training to study its effects (but whose peer reviewed and govt funded studies CIA conveniently left out of its representations about SERE to OLC) had also a decade-long relationship with JSOC?

      I’d say that we need an independent, powerful investigating committee to get to the bottom of all this.

      • bobschacht says:

        Jeff,
        I’d say you had some very important information, and that maybe you should find the right persons to share it with. I’m thinking either Sen. Feingold, or maybe Sen. Whitehouse?

        Thanks for your work on this. It is important.

        Bob in AZ

      • Leen says:

        “I’d say that we need an independent, powerful investigating committee to get to the bottom of all this.”

        “independent, powerful” Is this a possibility? From my vantage “independent, powerful” only happens when the blowjob justice juices are flowing.

        Still can not figure out what happened with all that time spent on investigating false pre war intelligence. Not one person held accountable for that intelligence snowjob.

        What the hell was the purpose for Phase I and Phase II of the SSCI? So that they don’t learn from serious mistakes…just investigate and spit out some reports. WTF

  3. MadDog says:

    I’m surprised by this comment from Scott Horton in the latest Scahill piece:

    “When I saw the article, the first thing that just leapt off the page was his name. I thought, ‘My god, why would he go to Adam?'” said Horton. “And then I read the article and I thought, of course he’d go to Adam. There is this legal theme being developed in the article and Adam, as a lawyer who had dealt with the CIA, fully understands that. I mean I think he fully understood he was going to do a piece that would help Prince develop his legal defense and that’s what this is. The amazing thing to me is that Vanity Fair printed it. Do the editors of Vanity Fair not understand what’s going on here?”

    I’m surprised by Scott’s surprise. Of course Vanity Fair understands.

    Sending graymail messages/threats has never stopped the MSM from worshipping clicks and circulation increases.

    • emptywheel says:

      Actually, I think Horton overestimates the degree to which this is a classic graymail.

      Holder’s DOJ has shown itself very adept at having trials where the defense gets no information (and that’s before the detainee trials start in earnest). So the idea is that others in govt will make this impossible for DOJ to press, if it’s DOj that’s even the ultimate target of this.

      Several–but not all–of the trials Prince is involved in right now are civil trials. DOJ doesn’t GET to dismiss them.

      • MadDog says:

        I don’t necessarily disagree with your take on this. If graymail, its target is more directly non-DOJ folks.

        McChrystal is a likely candidate, but there may be others. Such as directly to the White House with Brennan.

        And yes, the DOJ may not blink under the pressure, but if Holder & Co. are unwilling to do much with the CIA’s former National Clandestine Service’s head Jose Rodriguez wrt destroying the torture tapes for example, I’d guess they’d easily read Prince’s handwriting-on-the-wall with the same lack of enthusiasm.

      • Sara says:

        “Several–but not all–of the trials Prince is involved in right now are civil trials. DOJ doesn’t GET to dismiss them.”

        This is what intrigued me, because in the VF piece, Prince makes a big point he has given all his company assets to his employees in some sort of ESOP arrangement. It intrigues me as a scam to lighten the gold load in Prince’s own pockets, making recovery of damages, etc., more difficult in a Civil Trial. So message to the Civil Attorneys — “I just poor as a churchmouse, having given all I own to the poor, so I could follow Jesus and find my true vocation as a High School History Teacher.” I wonder if the Civil Attorney’s for the plaintifs have noticed this, and perhaps done something to stop the give-away at least until after they get a trial and see if they are entitled to damages?

        • cinnamonape says:

          I believe that there are laws in place to prevent the sequestering of assets by sheltering them in the hands of relatives, friends, a corporation, or even charities.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          His “former” company has quite a few assets – planes, trains and automobiles, that sort of thing, ships and service/employment contracts, too. But I’d be more interested in whether it has a net worth. Besides, he’s in a personal service business.

          Weapons, transport, training sites he can reacquire. So long as he retains his contacts, street cred and personal wealth, he can reform the bulk of his business wherever he goes. His vulnerability is a function of his ego (Steven Seagal’s got nothin’ on his ego), his past and the willingness of his government to inquire into it.

  4. Hmmm says:

    The greymail idea seems by far the best explanation for Eric’s bizarre spectacle. But as usual, I seem to be missing some of the perp’s logic: What could Prince possibly threaten to spill that both a) would be big enough to matter to the USG, and b) the actual spilling of which wouldn’t make things ten time worse for Eric than they already are?

    I guess one possible answer would be that that just indicates that it would be impossible for things to get any worse for him than they already are…? Follow-up would be: So who’s thrown Eric under the bus, and for what offense exactly?

    • emptywheel says:

      Let’s take MD’s example of McChrystal (who we already know from the Tillman affair is not above a good coverup). Say what Prince knows could put McChrystal in jail? Does McChrystal have the institutional clout to make it very difficult for DOJ to push Prince too hard?

      But I don’t think McChrystal is the most exposed on this count. More likley Cheney is–which means the question is whether Cheney has enough people burrowed in a DOJ that has already gone to great lengths to avoid causing him troubles to make sure no one pressures Prince too much?

      • MadDog says:

        Cheney? Not likely a paper trail given his proclivity to avoid any such thing.

        And direct witnesses have shown a sense of Omerta worthy of any Mafioso (as a sidenote, I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating: Cheney doesn’t have “friends”. He only has “enemies” and “accomplices”. And that includes the members of his family as well. *g*)

        I guess I wouldn’t think his stay-behinds at DOJ were capable of too much slow-rolling on DOJ efforts wrt Prince, but instead I do believe his stay-behinds at DOD (and its JSOC) would have far more reason to hide things.

        Criminal culpability reasons in spades.

        In any event, regardless of just who is Prince’s target, I’d agree that there is more than a bit of butt-puckering taking place amongst DC denizens.

      • Hmmm says:

        Yes, I’ve been thinking Cheney too. As I mentioned on the Spy vs. Spy thread @ 136:

        The CIA’s original assassination squad trained at his personal estate outside of DC…

        …he invited Vanity Fair to his training camp in North Carolina, to his Virginia offices…

        …he was running intelligence-gathering operations from a secret location in the United States, remotely coordinating the movements of spies working undercover in one of the so-called Axis of Evil countries…

        Uhrm, is it just me, or does all that sound awful darn Papa-Dick-Secure-Undisclosed-Location-y? Same time frame, no?

      • bobschacht says:

        Yeah, this is interesting. How far out on how many limbs is the DOJ prepared to crawl out on to protect Cheney? Might there come a point at which they throw in the towel and turn the prosecutors loose? –in which case, Prince’s blackmail will not have as much potency. I mean, that’s what Prince’s graymail devense is, isn’t it? a form of blackmail?

        Bob in AZ

      • SouthernDragon says:

        Does McChrystal have the institutional clout to make it very difficult for DOJ to push Prince too hard?

        Obviously haven’t read all the comments yet but McChrystal certainly has the clout to have Prince terminated with extreme prejudice.

        Sorry if this has already been brought up.

  5. MadDog says:

    And another interesting piece on Prince’s tales comes from CNN Executive Producer Suzanne Simons:

    Blackwater’s Prince raising concern in Washington

    There’s a lot of head-scratching at the CIA over an article in Vanity Fair magazine that dubs Erik Prince, the founder of the notorious private military contractor Blackwater, a “tycoon, contractor, soldier, spy.”

    …It’s true that Prince, as the sole owner of one of the most well-connected private military contractors in modern history, is in a position of enormous trust within the government. So why is it that he’s lashing out publicly at that same government?

    …Some former CIA officials are, quite frankly, annoyed…

  6. qweryous says:

    Perhaps the beginning of a planned media campaign by Prince.

    Done serving his country for now… forced out by the new administration’s [insert derogatory campaign terminology here]…but available to be recalled to duty when the country needs him.

    Such as 2010, 2012.

    Dubya had the real military hero status to sell the ticket.

    Prince does too.. even if it’s too secret to talk about.

    • beguiner says:

      Eric indeed gives off that same righteous vibe as Ollie North. Like he’d be doing us a favor by serving in Congress.

      • Gitcheegumee says:

        The Blackwater Charges: What’s Being Alleged? | TPMMuckrakerAug 6, 2009 … Prince is like a cross between Ollie North and Gary Bauer, … I am reading how Family members felt the Germans were the … There are many connections between circles around “The Family” and the Eric Prince line, …
        tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/…/the_blackwater_charges_whats_being_alleged.php – Cached

      • qweryous says:

        That depends on who you ask.

        He looked that way on tv.

        Didn’t he do something in the military at about the time of the Vietnam war?

        Didn’t he fly his plane out to some aircraft carrier that time when he declar.. missi.. acco..?

        I should have put it as “real military hero status” tm (in a little circle) right wing republican party.

  7. x174 says:

    i wonder how this fits into the puzzle?

    Report: US Expands Pakistan Drone Strikes

    The New York Times is reporting the Obama administration has approved an expansion of US drone attacks inside Pakistan. The move coincided with Obama’s announcement of more troops to Afghanistan earlier this week. The White House is said to be in talks with Pakistani officials on launching the drone attacks inside the Baluchistan region for the first time.

    source: democracy now!

    thanks for the latest scahill. i like the way Hmmm puts it @ 2:58:

    What could Prince possibly threaten to spill that both a) would be big enough to matter to the USG, and b) the actual spilling of which wouldn’t make things ten time worse for Eric than they already are?

    • qweryous says:

      “What could Prince possibly threaten to spill…”

      Always when gambling at a game of skill it is important to determine if the opponent(s) know the odds and gamble as you do ( either rationally, or irrationally). The same applies here.

      Is the same evaluation process being used?

  8. MadDog says:

    As additional fuel to EW’s posting’s fire, one might read the 4th and 5th pages of this September 10, 2006 WaPo article: Bin Laden Trail ‘Stone Cold’

    In particular, this part:

    Uncertain Command Structure

    Bureaucratic battles slowed down the hunt for bin Laden for the first two or three years, according to officials in several agencies, with both the Pentagon and the CIA accusing each other of withholding information. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld’s sense of territoriality has become legendary, according to these officials.

    In early November 2002, for example, a CIA drone armed with a Hellfire missile killed a top al-Qaeda leader traveling through the Yemeni desert. About a week later, Rumsfeld expressed anger that it was the CIA, not the Defense Department, that had carried out the successful strike.

    “How did they get the intel?” he demanded of the intelligence and other military personnel in a high-level meeting, recalled one person knowledgeable about the meeting.

    Gen. Michael V. Hayden, then director of the National Security Agency and technically part of the Defense Department, said he had given it to them.

    “Why aren’t you giving it to us?” Rumsfeld wanted to know.

    Hayden, according to this source, told Rumsfeld that the information-sharing mechanism with the CIA was working well. Rumsfeld said it would have to stop…

    …At that time, Rumsfeld was putting in place his own aggressive plan, led by the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM), to dominate the hunt for bin Laden and other terrorists. The overall special operations budget has grown by 60 percent since 2003 to $8 billion in fiscal year 2007.

    Rows and rows of temporary buildings sprang up on SOCOM’s parking lots in Tampa as Rumsfeld refocused the mission of a small group of counterterrorism experts from long-term planning for the war on terrorism to manhunting. The group “went from 20 years to 24-hour crisis-mode operations,” one former special operations officer said. “It went from planning to manhunting.”

    In 2004, Rumsfeld finally won the president’s approval to put SOCOM in charge of the “Global War on Terrorism.”…

    …But Lt. Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, the JSOC commander since 2003, has become the de facto leader of the hunt for bin Laden and developed a good working relationship with the CIA to the extent that he recently was able to persuade the former station chief in Kabul to become his special assistant. He asks for targets from the CIA, and it tries to comply. “We serve the military,” one intelligence officer said…

    • MadDog says:

      …In 2004, Rumsfeld finally won the president’s approval to put SOCOM in charge of the “Global War on Terrorism.”…

      In case anyone missed the significance of this assignment to SOCOM, here’s the latest as of July 1st this very year (thanks to Secrecy News for this 125 page PDF this very day) – page 80:

      …Command and Control…

      3. United States Special Operations Command

      CDRUSSOCOM is a global synchronizer for the war on terrorism and responsible for synchronizing planning, and as directed, executing operations against terrorist networks on a global basis in coordination with other combatant commands, the Services, and as directed, appropriate USG agencies…

    • kindGSL says:

      http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n1948/a11.html

      While Walters talks the prohibitionist talk, Rumsfeld walks the realpolitik walk, and the US hops in bed with some of the planet’s largest drug dealers. This is not new. In fact, it is not even new in Afghanistan. That country became the world’s largest opium producer during the 1980s, when the US, through its intermediaries in Pakistan’s intelligence services, sponsored the mujahadin fighters in their jihad against the Russian occupiers. Those opium fields helped overthrow the Russians, and the US turned a blind eye.

      I don’t think it makes sense to look at Afghanistan while ignoring the drug war. It is my belief people like Rumsfeld are big in illegal drugs. But that is all just circumstantial observations. We need to have him looked at more carefully to know for sure.

  9. BayStateLibrul says:

    Damn it. Where the fuck is the oversight committee to call hearings.
    Waxman?
    You can;t have a CEO getting millions of dollars and at the same time
    be a CIA agent?
    Laws have been broken… conflict of interest…

    • Leen says:

      innocent people have been killed…

      but hey Americans could care less about the innocent people who have been slaughtered in their names. Erik Prince is an alleged Christian doing this in the name of $$$od! Americans need to get to the malls to celebrate the King of consumption all in the name of an alleged Prince of Peace.

      Aye yi yi

  10. laurastrand says:

    Why is war so good for business? Why haven’t we heard a peep about investigating the profiteers? Why aren’t the Afghans asked what they would like – more militarization of their country or more schools?

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      No other activity of government draws on so many community resources, spends them with abandon, and limits debate owing to the “security” and “loyalty” demands of the hour. It gives carte blanche to the unscrupulous, and was recognized to have that effect by the Founding Fathers.

      Our current crop of public intellectuals, pundits and politicians have forgotten that or ignore it because they have succumbed to ambition, greed and desire for fame. Who among them could bear the Ring without falling prey to it? In reality, none of us could, which is why our government has the checks and balances it does, which is also why the Bushes and their peers have done so much to remove them.

      • bobschacht says:

        …Who among them could bear the Ring without falling prey to it? …

        Y’know, this really says it all for me. Its as if a few decades ago, the U.S. President (Reagan? Clinton?) obtained the Ring, and fell prey to it, and the Ring ever since has been passed to the next President, and each and every one, apparently including Obama, has fallen prey to it.

        We are badly in need of a Frodo to bear the Ring for us, and a Wizard like Gandalf who has the sense to refuse all opportunities to bear the Ring himself, and who has the sense to support Frodo in his travails. And leaders like Strider/Aragorn who have the wisdom to leave the Ring in the hands of the proper Ringbearer, until it at last is returned to its proper destination.

        Instead, we get a string of ego-driven presidents who think they have the character and strength to hold the Ring and use it Rightly without being corrupted– but they all succumb to its power, whether Republican or Democrat.

        Bob in AZ

        • PJEvans says:

          Reagan, if not earlier: Iran-Contra and Grenada.
          You could make a case for Nixon having had the Ring, what with Watergate.

      • PPDCUS says:

        Following the money — a different kind of checks and balances

        With the incestuous revolving door between DOD, CIA, congressional staff, administration operatives and the Halliburtopia of military intelligence defense contracting, this may be as much greenmail as graymail.

        Parenthetically, no one in LOTR had the will to destroy the ring. It was a suicidal victory of Gollum’s obsession for power that cast it into the fires of Mount Doom. Come to think of it, Prince has that ill favored look, doesn’t he?

        • bobschacht says:

          Parenthetically, no one in LOTR had the will to destroy the ring. It was a suicidal victory of Gollum’s obsession for power that cast it into the fires of Mount Doom.

          I’ve read the books, as well as seeing the movies. Frodo at great risk to himself delivered the ring to the rim of the volcano. He can be forgiven for hesitating on the brink, long enough for Gollum to make his fatal lunge. There is no evidence that Frodo succumbed to the ring– even though he used it a few times. IOW, he was tempted, but he did not succumb to the Ring, or to Sauron.

          Bob in AZ

          • behindthefall says:

            I liked the LOTR thoughts, and I spent a few seconds wondering what the Right might be. The, what do they call it, the “Nuclear Football”? Can you imagine any other object on Earth loaded with more bad vibrations, seduction, and temptation?

            • bobschacht says:

              No, not the nuclear football. I think the Ring metaphor might have something to do with Wall Street and/or JSOC (the CIA is, like, you know, so 20th century.)

              Bob in AZ

          • tosh says:

            Read the volume of JRRT’s letters. He’s rather explicit that Frodo succumbed to the ring. He’s even stronger than that – *everyone* would have succumbed to the ring, save potentially Tom. It’s why Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel refused it: they had the self awareness that they eventually would be warped by it.

            If you read closely, you’ll find that Frodo “failed” at most things he attempted and goals he set.

            Read closer and you’ll see that while *he* failed, most of those things he attempted and/or goals he set were either achieved or resolved by actions and/or paths he chose, but not in the ways he foresaw.

            Frodo personally failed in Mt. Doom.

            But the quest succeeded because of the actions he took: not killing Gollumn when he and Sam could have earlier. There are more reasons it succeeded, but going back through them you’ll seem similar things.

            Go back to the true start of Frodo’s quest. His reason wasn’t to personally destroy the ring. Something else. And he utterly failed at that. Worse, when faced with the failure of that, he wasn’t able to fix it on two different levels. But other could: Sam, Merry and Pippin due to their character growth through the journey, which ties back to Frodo.

            ——————–

            Anyway, big digression. Great article by Marcy and a lot of great follow ups.

            I think sadly next to nothing will come from this, either in terms of the depth of the CIA and Blackwater evils coming to light, or Prince going to the slammer. I thinks it’s clear from the “Pick The Method That Will Convict” nonsense the DOJ is doing with Gitmo folks, the Admin’s fight to the death on releasing those torture pictures, Holder’s ridiculous handwringing over (not really) chasing torture laws, and the White House Counsel being thrown under the bus… the Admin really wants all this to go away and be kept under the rug. The Military Industrial Complex and the Servailance State has won and will win, just as the Banksters won on the collapse of the econmy, Big Health will win on Health Care and Big Energy will win on Global Warming. The rest of us will pay for it all.

            Not suggesting that people like Marcy and Jane and the rest of the hard workers roll over and just take it. But the reality is that rather than the staggering failures of the past 8 years leading to change, they’re instead leading to them getting more institutionalized and accepted. It’s numbing. Tea baggers and wingnuts are closer to getting what by being batshit crazy they want than we are by being rational and bringing facts.

            The worst thing is that I don’t think we’re going to end up like Frodo here: failing personally but through our actions setting up things that succeed where we fail. This is becoming far closer to the First Age where there is no chance of real success, but rather a long defeat to lift Galadriel’s quote. Sorry for the negative vibes, but it’s quite bleak. :/

            John

            • kindGSL says:

              Tom Bombadil

              http://www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/bombadil.html

              Many readers of the Lord of the Rings consider Tom’s presence in the first book to be an unnecessary intrusion into the narrative, which could be omitted without loss. Tolkien was aware of their feelings, and in part their judgment was correct. As Tolkien wrote in a letter in 1954, “. . . many have found him an odd and indeed discordant ingredient. In historical fact I put him in because I had already invented him. . . and wanted an ‘adventure’ on the way. But I kept him in, and as he was, because he represents certain things otherwise left out” (Ibid., p. 192). Judging by these remarks, critical readers are correct about the arbitrariness of Tom’s introduction into the story; however, as Tolkien continues, he deliberately (nonarbitrary) kept Tom in to fulfill a particular role, to provide an additional dimension.

              When I read the quote about Tom Bombadil being included “because he represents certain things otherwise left out”, I thought it meant Tolkien was thinking of the Native Americans. To me the story is representative of our history as a species.

              The ring is power. It’s story is about how power corrupts people. There is one group of people who don’t want power over others, Native Americans, thus they uniquely wouldn’t want the ring or be corrupted by it.

              Tolkien also notes Tom could not be trusted with it either though because with his lack of desire for it, he would be careless about it and lose it.

            • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

              tosh, should you return to read this, your comment put me in mind of something that has haunted me since I heard about it; the possible-suicide-but-more-likely-murder of a former US military officer and West Point instructor whose particular focus was military ethics. He’d been appalled by what he saw in Iraq, and part of his job had required him to deal with contractors. It seems quite likely that someone of his reputation, decrying the damage done to military objectives by the contractors in Iraq would have made himself a ‘target’, and that if a contractor killed him, they’d have done it in a way designed to make it appear that he had despaired of righting an obscene wrong, conducted on a scale that boggles the mind.

              It would be very, very strange — yet heartbreakingly fitting — if the death of Col Ted Westhusing turned out to be some kind of ‘trigger’ that put in motion:
              (1) recognition by the uniformed military that ‘contractors’ and black ops had slipped from the reins of their control,
              and therefore
              (2) the military had to regain control of the war by sussing out the contractors (including, let us all recall, a certain Ahmad Chalabi, a multitude of Shia Iraqis with close, long-term ties to Iran, and numerous third-world nationals),
              in order to
              (3) reclaim authority and control of military operations from contractors, requiring a serious revision of procurement and budget procedures.

              Why?
              What if… and I make no accusations, I’m only brainstorming, but it makes a creepy kind of sense if (a) contractor(s) were implicated in the suspicious death of Col. Westhusing.

              In other words, there may have been a Ringbearer.

              Evidently, from the reporting, he came to despise Petraeus.

              Westhusing was an unusual case: “one of the Army’s leading scholars of military ethics, a full professor at West Point who volunteered to serve in Iraq to be able to better teach his students. He had a doctorate in philosophy; his dissertation was an extended meditation on the meaning of honor,” as Christian Miller explained in a major Los Angeles Times piece.

              “In e-mails to his family,” Miller wrote, “Westhusing seemed especially upset by one conclusion he had reached: that traditional military values such as duty, honor and country had been replaced by profit motives in Iraq, where the U.S. had come to rely heavily on contractors for jobs once done by the military.” His death followed quickly. “He was sick of money-grubbing contractors,” one official recounted. Westhusing said that “he had not come over to Iraq for this.” After a three-month inquiry, investigators declared Westhusing’s death a suicide….

              [Greg Mitchell then ends the report with an update]…Since last March, when I wrote a story about the apparent suicide of Col. Ted Westhusing in Iraq, I had believed there was nothing else to write about his tragic death.
              But in December, I talked to a source in the Department of Defense who met Westhusing in Iraq about three months before his death. The source, who asked not to be identified for fear of reprisals, was investigating claims of wrongdoing against military contractors working in Iraq. After a short introduction, I asked him what he thought had happened to Westhusing. ‘I think he was killed. I honestly do. I think he was murdered, the source told me. ‘Maybe DOD didn’t have enough evidence to call it murder, so they called it suicide.'”

              Suppose you’re a military commander.
              You need to win a war.
              You expect to fight ‘the bad guys’, those obviously opposing you in battle.
              Unexpectedly, you realize that the out-of-control contractors, who seem to like the ‘dollar a blow job’ life and making several times what you make, are at least as deadly as your more obvious ‘enemies’.

              Now, going back to Sara’s insightful comment @125, it is worth nothing that:

              1. Part of Pres Obama’s new requirements for the continued activity in Afghanistan appears to involve producing cleaner budgets.

              2. There were new publicly stated restrictions about contractors.

              3. Is it possible that Barak Obama’s speech was at West Point as a signal to those who follow the Uniformed Code of Military ? (Rules?) that the war **will** be fought by the principles adopted by, honored by our possible Ringbearer, a certain Col Westhusing?

              4. How much of the location of Obama’s speech was a signal **to the military** that the Rules of Engagement, which in WWII allowed the US to prevail against torturers, will be followed? That he recognizes that those who maintain and honor standards of ethics are tougher, more clear-thinking, and therefore more likely to prevail — particularly over a long period of time, when ethics really do come into play?

              Too long a comment, but tosh, you certainly made me ponder…

              • Sara says:

                “4. How much of the location of Obama’s speech was a signal **to the military** that the Rules of Engagement, which in WWII allowed the US to prevail against torturers, will be followed? That he recognizes that those who maintain and honor standards of ethics are tougher, more clear-thinking, and therefore more likely to prevail — particularly over a long period of time, when ethics really do come into play?”

                I think this was a very important signal or symbol. Can’t remember which station I used to listen to the speech — C-Span or MSNBC (not Faux) anyhow several times the announcer noted the location was the EISENHOWER THEATRE at West Point, and the camera at one point focused on busts of Eisenhower and George Marshall (not a West Pointer) in what appeared to be the lobby of the theatre. Live Music — Ruffles and Flourshes and then the Army Marching Song. The audience was the very young and fresh faced guys and gals who will lead this effort at the small unit level. Next year and the year after’s crop of Second Lieutenants.

                It is hard to think on Eisenhower without remembering some combination of World War II Leadership, and then his final Presidential Speech about the dangers of the Military-Industrial Complex. I think all that was intentional, a construction for the back-drop of the speech’s content.

                Where I disagree with Jeff Kaye, both at #134 and much higher up in this thread, is around how to understand Obama’s notion of lesser drama and less direct leadership style. Barack Obama is just not going to go on TV and directly denounce anything in strong terms. It is more that just knowing that his opponents will spin virtually anything he says into a nonsense distraction if at all possible, it is also about his very natural instinct not to get boxed in early on in any policy debate.

                I suggest he wants to clean up the private contractor mess, that he has thought it through, and intentionally plans to execute, but he is not going to give his opponents, the Cheney and Rumsfeld cohorts (Including the Erik Prince’s of the world and all others who have benefited from the profits running from the private contractor systems), who dreamed up Privatization of the Military back in the late stages of the first Bush Administration, a target to shoot at. He’ll move cautiously forward on that score, and in a sense hope he provokes them into making a gross mistake. (That’s the Gandhi in him.) I know it is tough for those who prefer some sort of direct hand to hand combat to understand this — but it is important if one wants to get at the essential Obama.

                And yes, I do think the Intelligence has been corrupted since Charlie Wilson’s times, and before you forge an Afghan-Pakistan Strategy, you need to go back and scrub it all. Lots of unquestioned assumptions got built into a thesis about putting pressure on the Soviet Union by encouraging the development of Muslim Identity and quasi-Fundamentalist beliefs and movements in the southern tier of the old Soviet Union based on missionary work and investments in religious infrastructure by Saudi Arabia, etc., that proved to be exceptionally bad policy in the long run, and those need identifying, and clearing up. One basis for some of our relations with the Pakistani Military back in the glorious days of the war against the Soviets was the space we made for many of their officers to become significant Heroin refiners and wholesale dealers. It is how we bought a lot of them. CIA’s policy was always to look away when some piece of it all became visable. Then we walked away from all the post war problems, left them with a barely breathing but fully armed economy, and a strong Nuke and Drug business. Obama needed to take all this into account in scrubbing the intelligence of false assumptions. As Harry Belafonte put it years ago, “House built on a weak foundation, will not stand, oh no.”

                • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

                  Thank you, Sara; you give me hope that I’m not misreading the situation with Obama.

                  If not for tosh’s comment about the seeming futility of Frodo and the others in LOTR, I would not have come round to this interpretation of what Pres. Obama is doing.

                  But if my interpretation of the reasons for Pres Obama giving that speech at West Point is even partially correct, then it would make Erik Prince’s timing on the Vanity Fair article, along with his choice of reporter, all the more interesting.

                  Sentimentally, it would be some comfort to think that Pres Obama’s decision to speak at West Point was in part an unspoken tribute to Col Westhusing, whose commitment to developing strong leadership by helping students recognize the role of ‘ethics’ as a powerful foundation for decision-making, grounded in the long-term implications of ‘moral’ conduct — even in war (especially in war!), and even toward ‘enemies’ — appears to have been remarkable. (However, I recognize this desired motive on my part is merely my own sentimentality kicking in.)

                  Westhusing must have been a remarkable individual.
                  It’s a reasonable guess that he’d have loathed Erik the Dark Prince of Xe.

                • Rayne says:

                  I think the choice of West Point was less about the venue than the fact that the next batch of officers to serve under him are right there in that room, and they need to see him as a human being rather than as a stereotype their senior leaders may make him out to be.

                  Have been very surprised at how racism has factored into the process of determining the next direction for our military; it’s the generation which will be retiring/cashiered which is struggling with it the most, too.

                  • Sara says:

                    “Have been very surprised at how racism has factored into the process of determining the next direction for our military; it’s the generation which will be retiring/cashiered which is struggling with it the most, too.”

                    Yes, it is the last of the Vietnam Era either ROTC origin officers, or the West Pointers, who started in the Officer Corps before the services realized they had to get deeply serious about racism, and ultimately sexism. In reality, too little has been published about it, but all those fragging incidents in the early 70’s in Vietnam and elsewhere (there were a few in Germany no less) got the Senior Officer Corps by the neck, made them realize that if they did not take it seriously, the force could break apart with a slight push. Husband of a friend of mine was in the Naval Medical Corps, mostly on Aircraft Carriers, in the late 70’s and 80’s. and he contends some of the ships were near disabled by racial wars among the crews. So mid to late 70’s onward they got very serious particularly about recruiting for ROTC and West Point a much more diverse universe from which to grow the future Officer’s Corps. As with anything you only see the fruit of the effort thirty years later, as it takes that long to get all the tickets punched, and see who gets promoted to senior rank. I expect a certain amount of damage was done to the effort by the Bush Era Evangelical coloration of promotions and recruitment.

                    • Rayne says:

                      Yes, agreed that the Christian evangelism within the military was a disservice to the country and to the world; it did what I believe is enormous damage by creating a crusade-like subtext to military operations.

                      Some will point to Colin Powell and say the military isn’t racist — but Powell wasn’t the president, and he was a lifer in the military. Can’t help but think of Taguba and Shinseki and what happened to their careers; their only sin was telling truth to power, and it’s not possible if you’re not white. Even Hispanic military leaders get short shrift if they don’t carefully tow the line. It’s their generational cohort and leadership which needs to be weeded out, allowing more youngsters with a better attitude towards organizational diversity to assume greater responsibility.

                      Unfortunately it also means we have about 20 years more of private security with a bad attitude, too.

  11. Sara says:

    Apparently Prince also lied in the VF article when he told the reporter he had applied to the CIA and been rejected because of his lack of Qualifications. Last night on Maddow’s show Scahill said the reason he wasn’t hired was because he flunked his polygraph.

    • MadDog says:

      I was going to mention the very same thing as I thought it was pretty significant when I heard it last night.

      Shorter CIA to Erik Prince: Liar, liar, pants on fire!

  12. orionATL says:

    Perhaps prince is worried about having appeared before a certain grand jury called by a certain don prosecutor to examine the issue of “unapproved” torture

    Or perhaps he anticipates that indictment of former b’water employees will lead to discovery that slowly climbs up the chain of command at b’water.

  13. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Is Deadeye Dick among those you think should be worried about what Mr. Prince could reveal about his and JSOC’s work?

  14. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Prince appears supremely confident and disciplined; he would not be giving this sort of “access” interview unless it were part of a strategic plan. I suspect you are right that it is Prince attempting several things, first and foremost, damage control for his business, his fortune and his ability to stay out of jail. What better way than to remind the uppety ups in this and the past administration exactly what they tasked him to do, and that he, presumably, has good records and a better memory than Alberto Gonzales or Dick Cheney.

  15. readerOfTeaLeaves says:

    Wow, thatsa lotta bridge-burning going on.
    Which bridges, and where, I’m not entirely sure.
    But a lotta smoke seems to be rising.

    If this is Prince doing a flameout, it’s one hell of a flameout.
    Wowsa.

    • lawordisorder says:

      Thats as they say is good warrior thinking…burning bridges when you are fighting a defensive battle (rearguard battle)..here at the coffemaker we are on the offensive…mucho more fun..guees the old saying “when a co looses faith in his own abillity and the abillity of his Subs, the battle is over” the rest is just a “MOPPING” up OPR Kicked in big time…so catch a mop boys and girls, isen’t that one of your CINC’s favorite sayings?

      These “bad boys” are running scared all across the board…

      Just my five cents worth ( as this old warrior carves another notch in the gunhandle)

      • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

        If you had anything to do with exposing, or weakening the power of, this Dark Prince Erik of Xe, I tip my cap to you.

        Well done, sir or madam.

  16. klynn says:

    Adam was a good pick for Prince on a number of levels. However, I’ve been wondering if it was Prince who did the “picking” of the journalist? This “story” has some interesting play on a number of levels in addition to conducting greymail.

  17. MadDog says:

    As a sidenote, this from Laura Rozen on former CIA lawyer and now the Vanity Fair article writer wrt Erik Prince, Adam Ciralsky back on December 21, 2004:

    …According to the JTA report by Edwin Black, the FBI investigation of AIPAC was stalled for over a year after FBI officials observed Pentagon Iran analyst Larry Franklin verbally sharing details from a draft classified national security directive on Iran with officials from the lobbying group AIPAC. For almost a year after that lunch transaction occurred, Black reports, nothing happened. Then, in May 2004, the FBI tapped Franklin making a call to CBS producer Adam Ciralsky. [Ciralsky had served as an attorney at the CIA before leaving the agency and suing it for allegedly harrassing him because of his ties to Israel. CBS’s 60 Minutes covered the case, and then apparently hired Ciralsky as a producer.] Black reports: “In the conversation with CBS, Franklin’s remarks reportedly revealed sensitive intelligence intercepts, potentially compromising sources and methods of intelligence gathering, according to some sources aware of the call.” The call apparently gave the FBI the ammunition it needed to persuade Franklin to cooperate in a sting against both members of AIPAC, and neoconservative allies of Ahmad Chalabi, who was believed to have told Iranian intelligence officials that the US had penetrated Iranian communications…

    (My Bold)

    “Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.”

    • MadDog says:

      And more on Adam Ciralsky from the a July 19, 2009 NYT piece:

      TV-Ready Manhunt Finds Prey at Home

      “The Wanted,” a series that purports to send its own team to hunt down accused terrorists and war criminals — concierge-service justice — so far has mostly brought NBC News unwanted scrutiny.

      The program, which begins on Monday night, sounds suspiciously like an international edition of “To Catch a Predator,” the infamous pedophile-entrapment series on NBC’s “Dateline” newsmagazine. Media critics complain that NBC News has crossed an ethical line between reportage and vigilantism…

      …Adam Ciralsky, an NBC News producer, and David Crane, a former chief prosecutor of an international war crimes tribunal in Sierra Leone, team up with a former member of the Navy Seals, Scott Tyler, and a former Green Beret, Roger Carstens, to form a kind of D.I.Y. hit squad.

      They hold stilted briefings in an office designed to look like a Pentagon war room and tell one another things like: “These individuals are living amongst us, they could be on checkout lines at the local supermarket.” Then, striding purposefully to pounding music, they divide up like contestants on “The Amazing Race,” and spread out to complete self-assigned missions with self-imposed and utterly artificial deadlines.

      Mr. Ciralsky travels all the way to northern Iraq, the base of Mullah Krekar’s group, to “take a firsthand look at the evidence,” but he doesn’t talk to Iraqi witnesses or survivors of terrorist acts…

      • qweryous says:

        On this tv show see my comments 41,42 and 48 on “SPY vs SPY”.
        Chasing Mamoun Darkanzali in particular in 48.
        Darkanzali appears in the Ciralski interview of Prince.

    • klynn says:

      Thanks for your posts on Ciralsky. Your comments somewhat confirm what I have been thinking. I think Ciralsky was “sent” to Prince.

      Now, who is Prince really contracted by?

      Jeff Kaye @ 97, thanks for your comment.

  18. TarheelDem says:

    Time for another playing of my current song:

    The national security organization of the US has not been looked at comprehensively since 1947. The current structure was created for the Cold War. The Cold War is 20 years over. But the Cold War institutions remain and at this point they are metastasizing.

    It’s time for a reset.

  19. qweryous says:

    The Jack Abramoff story is not yet full known. What is known is that there are connections between the Prince family and the Abramoff story in a number of ways.

    Scahill discussed the connections between Erik Prince and Jack Abramoff in his book on Blackwater.

    Direct funding was provided to one of Abramoff’s foundations “Toward Tradition” by the Elsa and Edgar Prince Foundation , Erik served on that foundations board.

    See also the Alexander Strategy Group, noting some who lobbied for it including Paul Behrends, Ed Buckham, Karl Gallant, and Tom Rudy.

    The above named were involved in lobbying for ‘International Peace Operations Association’. Blackwater was a member of this group.

    Alexander Strategy Group names above were staffers of Tom Delay and or involved with Delay’s ARMPAC with the exception of Behrends.

    Paul Behrends was a staffer for Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, frequent free dinner guest, and BFF of Jack Abramoff.

    Thank you Jeremy Scahill for this book.

    • Gitcheegumee says:

      Gray mail?

      How about Greysttone?

      From SourceWatch

      Blackwater USA

      Subsidiaries:
      Aviation Worldwide Services
      Greystone, Ltd.
      Presidential Airways, Inc.

      Principals:
      Erik Prince
      J. Cofer Black
      Robert Richer

      Greystone, Ltd. is a division of Blackwater USA formed to market Blackwater’s services to governments and other entities outside the United States. Its website describes it as “…an international supplier of turn-key security solutions. Greystone focuses on providing stability to locations experiencing turmoil whether caused by armed conflict, epidemics, or natural or man-made disasters.

      Greystone is a member of the International Peace Operations Association and the Private Security Company Association of Iraq.

      “It is more difficult than ever for your country to successfully protect its interests against diverse and complicated threats in today’s grey world,” Greystone’s promotional pamphlet . Applicants for jobs with Greystone were asked to check off their qualifications in weapons: AK-47 rifle, Glock 19, M-16 series rifle, M-4 carbine rifle, machine gun, mortar and shoulder-fired weapons. Among the skills sought were: Sniper, Marksman, Door Gunner, Explosive Ordnance, Counter Assault Team.[2]

      Sourcewatch

      • Gitcheegumee says:

        Greystone Limited
        A private security service, Greystone is registered in Barbados, and employs third country nationals for offshore security work through its affiliate Satelles Solutions, Inc.[71]

        Their web site advertises their ability to provide “personnel from the best militaries throughout the world” for worldwide deployment. Tasks can be from very small scale up major operations to “facilitate large scale stability operations requiring large numbers of people to assist in securing a region”. [71]

        Greystone had planned to open a training facility on the grounds of the Subic Bay U.S. Naval Base, but those plans were later abandoned.[72]

        Wikipedia

        • openhope says:

          Dear Gitcheegumee,
          I’ve lurked thru threads where your ongoing development as a commenter frustrated bmaz in working blogs. Something about length of quoted comment and taxing Lurking Mods on the amount of quoted text.?, anyhoo, you are doing an incredible learning curve on these things. Thank you so much for working it out. I like where your research leads you. *g*

        • Gitcheegumee says:

          re:Satelles Solutions-division of Blackwater

          The intelligence service commissioned Blackwater and its subsidiaries to transport terror suspects from Guantanamo to interrogations at secret prison camps in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Uzbekistan. The paper identifies aircraft movements and unveils how the flights were disguised.
          The memo reads: “The CIA hired Blackwater to conduct extraordinary renditions” and “Blackwater flew the rendition targets from Fort Perry and Cuba to Kandahar, Afghanistan.”

          ‘The CIA Hired Blackwater’

          According to the informant, some of the flights were provided by two other companies Prince owned, Presidential Airways and Aviation Worldwide, which were given special clearance in 2003 by the US Defense Department to conduct such flights. Source B even knew the tail numbers of the aircraft that were allegedly involved: N962BW, N964BW and N968BW.

          The flights also involved Satelles Solutions, another Prince subsidiary, which operates a training and recruitment camp in the Philippines designed to accommodate about 1,000 soldiers.
          According to Source A, Blackwater also helped out the CIA with another controversial activity during the Bush years. In the memo, Source A writes: “The CIA hired Blackwater to conduct targeted killings in Afghanistan.”

          Merchants of Death,excerpt der Spiegel,online

          linky to follow

          • Gitcheegumee says:

            )

            Copper Green is reported by American investigative journalist Seymour Hersh to be one of several code names for a U.S. black ops program, according to an article in the May 24, 2004 issue of The New Yorker. According to Hersh, the task force was formed with the direct approval of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld during the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, and run by Deputy Undersecretary Stephen Cambone. Hersh claims the special access program members were told “Grab whom you must. Do what you want”. The program allegedly designed physical coercion and sexual humiliation techniques for use against Muslim Arab men specifically, to retrieve information from suspects, and to blackmail them into becoming informants.

            Hersh claims to have spoken to a senior CIA official who said the program was designed by Rumsfeld to wrest control of information from the CIA, and place it in the hands of the Pentagon. According to Hersh’s sources, the program was so successful in Afghanistan, that Cambone decided to introduce the SAP program to operations during 2003 invasion of Iraq, eventually leading to the use of common soldiers instead of using special ops forces exclusively. In Hersh’s view, the program was used on detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison, leading directly to the prisoner abuse by US soldiers there….Wikipedia

            NOTE: Was that Blackwater doing Rumsfeld’s bidding in this Copper Green program in 2001, in the early invasion of Afghanistan?

            • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

              Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld during the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, and run by Deputy Undersecretary Stephen Cambone.

              Under whose authority, IIRC, the Office of Special Plans was implemented.

              Also, one of your comments references Jordan, which makes this all the more interesting. Of particular interest:

              Lami said he’d visited the White House with Chalabi in November 2005 and met with a senior administration Mideast expert. By August 2008, however, when Lami was arrested at the Baghdad airport, the U.S. command considered him a dangerous man with links to Shiite terrorist groups and the Iranian intelligence apparatus…

              IIRC, several of the comments here have alluded to 2005; here’s one more data point.

              No wonder Bush and Cheney wanted to claim ‘executive privilege’ as a means to avoid public knowledge of the fact that Chalabi was waltzing right on in to the White House.
              How could Bush ‘spin’ that little news item, eh?

              • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

                Gitchee, if you come back and see this – if you have not already checked out EW’s Ghorbanifar Timeline (see link on right side of page), look up the period beginning in August 2005.

                It’s quite interesting in view of the link that I left for you, and also some of your own information about events of (summer-fall) 2005.

                • Gitcheegumee says:

                  re:Chalabi and Jordan,from Wikipedia

                  In 1977, he founded the Petra Bank in Jordan. In the late 1980s, the government of Jordan issued a decree ordering all banks in the country to deposit one fifth of their reserves with the Central Bank. Petra Bank was the only bank that was unable to meet this requirement, and so Chalabi fled the country before the authorities could react. Chalabi was convicted and sentenced in absentia for bank fraud by a Jordanian military tribunal. He faces 22 years in prison, should he again enter Jordan.

                  Chalabi maintains that his prosecution was a politically motivated effort to discredit him. In May 2005, it was reported that King Abdullah II of Jordan had promised to pardon Chalabi, in part to ease the relations between Jordan and the new Iraqi government of which Chalabi was a member. According to one report, Chalabi proposed a $32 million compensation fund for depositers affected by Petra Bank’s failure. The website for Petra Bank contains a press release stating that Chalabi would refuse the pardon.[11]
                  Although he has always maintained the case was a plot to frame him by Baghdad, the issue was revisited later when the U.S. State Department raised questions about the INC’s accounting practices. According to the New York Times, “Chalabi insisted on a public apology, which the Jordanians refused to give.”[10]

                • Gitcheegumee says:

                  I have been somewhat focused on the events this past summer, regarding Blackwater.

                  I attempted to review ANY notable incidents occurred this past August, but not Blackwater in particular.

                  What is most memorable for me was the Sibel Edmonds deposition…and what,IF POSSIBLE, link that could even HAVE to ANY Blackwater Ops that we have been privy to .

                  Well, I began researching Turkey and Blackwater.

                  Pretty intriguing,at least to me.

                  Especially the articles about Turkey’s accusations and allegations of Blackwater smuggling and reselling arms to the PKK,whom Turkey has denounced as a terrorist organization.

                  As some of this was done very late last evening, I will resume my quest to locate the links this A.M.

  20. Blub says:

    The Princes really are emerging as this decade’s rethug bugbear family aren’t they? The Mellon Scaifes used to hold that distinction, but between grandma Prince financing Prop 8 in CA, to daddy Prince’s support for wingnut Christian reconstructionism and friendship with the Left Behind millenialist idiots to Prince Erik’s mercenary army and shrubco and CIA connectins, I’d say they’re pretty much the successors to the Scaife mantle.

  21. RAMA says:

    So this lowlife Prince spills his guts. I fail to see the downside. Of course, those who think we ought to be looking ahead and not back might feel somewhat differently. For some reason.

  22. Sara says:

    Rama — unless you can confirm all bits of Prince’s story by totally independent evidence, you don’t have a solid base for assuming anything Prince said to his self-selected reporter is worth a square inch of the paper it was printed on. All or most of it could be spun out disinformation, put out for his own agenda. Doesn’t matter if he is a low or high life.

  23. qweryous says:

    See this story of a financial scam involving a show similar to “The Wanted”

    This story from the Los Angeles Times ( September 24, 2005) has Rep. Dana Rohrabacher contacting other members of congress on behalf of the producer/fraudster one Joseph M. Medawar. Link:
    http://articles.latimes.com/2005/sep/24/local/me-hollywood24

    A later Los Angeles Times Story reveals payment of $23,000 to Rep Rohrabacher by this fraudster, and that Rohrabacher would pay back the money(!). Rohrabacher introduced Medawar around after selling him a 30 year old screenplay. From the second article dated May 17, 2006 link:
    http://articles.latimes.com/2006/may/17/local/me-medawar17

    “After the script was sold to Medawar, Rohrabacher helped introduce the little-known producer to fellow Republican congressmen and staff members at the House Homeland Security Committee. Medawar then trumpeted his access to Washington officials in discussing his project with journalists and selling it to potential investors, many of them from local churches.”

    More to follow on this.

  24. SadButTrue says:

    This story is just one more instance proving that the US doesn’t have a government anymore, it just has one gigantic taxpayer-funded criminal organization conspiring against the people.

  25. openhope says:

    Thank you,Marcy for another great post. I just can’t imagine the global “Shadow Power” allowing Prince to go down. Not when the feeding troughs for war and heroin got the green light, yet again. Unless there’s a successor-in-waiting manipulating Prince’s downfall from power.

    I regret to inform you that I didn’t donate to the Emptywheel Thermometer this month. I’m a true believer in the Emptywheel Thermometer.But, I’ve kind of been “shopping around” lately.
    Grayson,Public Option Please,the Stupak Amendment fight. However, next month is looking good,woman!! You’re back at the top of the list. Hope a lot of people will give a workable amount to get to the 150,000. It’s time to reach that goal.

  26. rosalind says:

    ot-ish: via latimes

    An Irvine man who says he was recruited by the FBI to go undercover in an Orange County anti-terrorist operation had been working with the bureau in 2007 and had provided “very, very valuable information that [had] proven essential” to a federal prosecution, according to a court transcript made public Friday.

    Monteilh and his attorney, Adam J. Krolikowski, said they sought to have the records unsealed, in part, to pave the way for a lawsuit they plan to file against the FBI. Monteilh says the bureau reneged on various promises agents allegedly made while he was an informant.

  27. orionATL says:

    Were I prince, I would never depend on Cheney for
    Protection.

    Cheney, despite his media presense is a has-been with little
    Power- hence the family defense effort.

    Ask yourself, what major repub pols have showed up at Cheney’s side?

    The bush famIly machinery is conducting a quiet
    War
    To render Cheney goofy and eccentric .

    If prince depends on cheney, he is walking on
    Thin
    Ice.

    As for
    Mchrystal providing prince protection,

    Generals don’t have much political power, and mchrystal has already
    Been compromised.

    • openhope says:

      McCrystal IS Cheney. Ask Pat Tillerman’s family. Liar.Assassin.Thief.War Profiteer.
      Didn’t we used to be concerned about War Profiteers Sucking t the National Tit as part of the Constitution?
      Or another My Bad situation for Openhope. *g* So confused

  28. orionATL says:

    It’s possible to view prince’s vfair article as s confession.

    Indicating penance.

    such a display might provide a fine basis for a pardon.

  29. Gitcheegumee says:

    Here’s an interesting story.

    Remember the four Blackwater contractors that were burned and hung from a bridge in Fallujah some years back,well some Navy Seals secretly captured the alleged mastermind of the incident,just last week-but the plot thickens.

    Here’s a small excerpt:

    No Court Records Available To Public Yet in SEALs’ Prosecution, Military Says
    Friday, December 04, 2009
    By Fred Lucas, Staff Writer

    ) (CNSNews.com) – A spokeswoman for the U.S. military’s Special Operations Command Central confirmed to CNSNews.com late on Thursday that no court documents are available to the public yet in the prosecution of three Navy SEALS, charged with abuse of a terror suspect in Iraq.

    The terror suspect who accused the SEALs of abuse is Ahmed Hashim Abed, the alleged architect of the murder of four Blackwater USA security guards in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004. The bodies of the four Americans were burned and hanged from a bridge.

    Typically, court documents are available to the public, even in military trials, unless classified information is involved. While no documents have been released yet, some documents could be released to the public as early as today (Dec. 4), Lt. Col. Holly Silkman, spokeswoman for the Special Operations Command Central (SOCCENT), told CNSNews.com.

    The three Navy SEALs are charged with an alleged September incident, in which one of the SEALs punched Abed in the stomach and two others allegedly lied to cover up the event. If convicted in court martial, they face a maximum penalty of one year in military confinement, forfeiture of two-thirds of their pay for one year and a discharge for bad conduct.

    CNS News.com (Linky to follow)

    • Rayne says:

      Should note as well that CNSNews is an adjunct of Brent Bozell’s business family, and in turn strongly related to the Heritage Foundation. The story also appeared on a Friday, in news dump zone.

      [edit: silly me, forgot to add that CNSNews picked up Jimmy Guckert/Jeff Gannon’s so-called journalism after he was outed and TalonNews/GOPUSA kind of dried up.]

      • Gitcheegumee says:

        Yes, I researched the source before posting it.

        I am aware of Bozell, but the originator of the early reporting was fox news-and I was not in favor of using them..

        What is of interest to me was the sub rosa from the MSM on this story,in general..

        Also, that Prince was a SEAL,too…and this report involved the actor/s in the 2004 Fallujah incident ,namely Blackwater employees.

        The timing is pretty interesting, too.

        According to the CNS article,the incident with these three Seals occured in September’09.

        But, it’s just coming to light.

        Oddly enough,the charges against Prince,in DC Court by former Blackwater employees-different case- occurred just one month earlier,in August’09-where he was acccused of being personally implicated in murder and of killing Iraqis for fun.

        • Rayne says:

          There’s a reason why CNSNews and Fox both picked up and reported this story; it serves their interests to make a case against the Obama administration. just Google “Abed + Navy Seals September 2009” and you’ll see what I mean; they are being used as both an example of Obama allegedly being soft on terrorists, and as a fundraising tool.

          We know that this situation is a strong example of the problems with the military doing the work of law enforcement; had this been a situation in the U.S. where police officers smacked up a suspect punitively, there probably wouldn’t be the same kind of pick-up among right-wing news outlets.

          Unless, of course, there was an opportunity to create a new cause celebre and use it for fundraising.

          • Gitcheegumee says:

            I did .

            And your take on it was similar to mine.

            However, the incident itself was interesting in and of itself-and as such,merited reporting,imho, by more than just those with an “axe to grind”,and/or an “axis of evil” to grind.

  30. Gitcheegumee says:

    I had completely forgotten that Prince had been accused ,in court documents filed this past summer, of being impplicated in the murders of several people, in addition to gun running and wife swapping. Also, that he was on an anti Muslim crusade. Now,I repeat-these are court documents filed by former Blackwater execs.

    Here’s a few links-The last one is explicit.

    Could some of this be on Prince’s mind,hence the article in VF,to create a legal defense?

    Blackwater Founder Erik Prince Accused in U.S. District Court of …Aug 28, 2009 … The attorneys singled out Erik Prince, a former Navy SEAL who is the … may have conspired to murder witnesses in the criminal probe. …
    http://www.washingtonpost.com › Nation › National Security –

    Blackwater founder Erik Prince accused of murder, smuggling and …Aug 5, 2009 … Newspeg international: A series of allegations including murder, weapons smuggling and the deliberate slaughter of civilians, …
    en.newspeg.com/Blackwater-founder-Erik-Prince-accused-of-murder,-smuggling-and-killing-for-fun-40294867.html – Cached

    The War Profiteers – Blackwater Chief Accused of Murder, Gun-RunningAug 5, 2009 … Erik Prince. Both men allege that Prince and his employees … Blackwater boss and guards accused of murder and ‘killing Iraqis for fun’ …
    http://www.expose-the-war-profiteers.org/archive/…3/20090805-1.htm – Cached

    • Jeff Kaye says:

      I am sure that Scahill is correct, and this is graymail on Prince’s part. He has certainly seen the fate of Mitchell and Jessen written upon the wall, or the Abu Ghraib MPs, and he does not want to suffer that. (Nor with his money, power, and connections does he feel he has to.)

      Murder, assassination, CIA spy… sure… but he knows as well as anyone that this is SOP in a military and group of intelligence services (and allied contractors) where the cult of assassination and torture has taken hold, and at this point, everyone is implicated, including the commander-in-chief who covers for their crimes.

      Tosh is bleak and pessimistic, and how can one not be? But I wouldn’t be so quick to jump to fictional analogies. This is not completely Orwell’s nightmare world (or Tolkien’s), not yet. And history has plenty of examples of where a determined group of people, and the involvement of a larger part of the population, intervenes, and changes the course of events. We must work for that.

      • Leen says:

        “And history has plenty of examples of where a determined group of people, and the involvement of a larger part of the population, intervenes, and changes the course of events. We must work for that.”

        The hundreds of thousands …nationwide millions world wide 30 million folks who marched, rallies, protested against the invasion of Iraq in the fall of 2002, winter 2003 did not have much effect. Especially with the MSM barely covering middle class Americans out in the streets prior to that illegal invasion.

        Yet to see anyone held accountable for the “pack of lies” that has resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths, injuries, millions displaced. I don’t have much hope.

        But will keep doing my part with the hope that we may witness those guilty of these war crimes held accountable.

  31. Leen says:

    Scahill is the king of deep investigation.

    This is what jumped out at me during Rachel’s interview with Scahill

    Prince ” is a smart political guy he knows what he is doing”

    Scahill
    “I have multiple sources on this including a well placed military intelligence source” these operations are “outside military chain of command and no oversight from congress”

    So who are these contractors wording for?

  32. perris says:

    so, I know we don’t condone torture, but has anyone suggested prince go throught the same “non torture” interogation he orchestrated with cheney?

    now that’s obviously not going to happen but I wonder how he would react if we asked him;

    “if we put you through your own technieques how long it would take for you to confess to being an enemy of the state”

    “how long would it take for you to admit you were the architech of the 9/11 attack?”

    “if we got those confessions from you, do you think you’d deserve a trial in this country or would you rather face a military commission?”

    I wonder what his answer would be to those questions

  33. Leen says:

    ot my new favorite place to go read/ Flynt Leverett (when will Rachel, Keith, Matthews someone have Leverett, Juan Cole, Scott Ritter on to talk about Iran instead of Rachel repeating many of the unsubstantiated claims about Iran.
    http://www.raceforiran.com/
    IRAN, ISRAEL, AND THE MIDDLE EAST’S NUCLEAR FUTURE

  34. Rayne says:

    Just getting back from brief roadtrip…I see I wasn’t the only one who thought Prince was making a threat. Here’s a couple responses, still working through the thread:

    emptywheel (10) — But Eric doesn’t get to disclose highly compartmentalized content during a civil trial; that’s when he ends up over a barrel, because it looks like intransigence.

    Sara (26) — We should be looking at the timing of the announcement that Blackwater was becoming Xe.

    We, the entire progressive blogosphere, blew that off as a failed attempt to rebrand. In hindsight it wasn’t; it was a wind-down of a corporation and a ramp-up of a new corporation with a new charter, new leadership, and new assets.

    More in a bit as I work my way through…

    • kindGSL says:

      Speak for yourself on that. I recognized it.

      I don’t recall if I said anything or not. I might have discussed how AT&T basically did the exact same thing. Remember how they spied on people, well I had damages. I went to them to try to get some remediation only to find that the old AT&T company doesn’t quite exist anymore.

      It is a well honored and time tested tradition that corporate entities have of avoiding inquiry and responsibility.

  35. Jim White says:

    Sorry I missed all the fun with this terrific thread. I put up a diary yesterday with Scahill’s Maddow appearance and then was in family time the rest of the day. In my diary, I also looked at the Scott Shane NYTimes piece. My take is that Shane was helping Prince to deflect attention to CIA and away from JSOC. I also think that Cheney is the one to watch for next moves. I look for him or Liz to come out next week and keep the focus on CIA without mentioning JSOC.

    Will anyone in Congress have the guts to ask McChrystal any tough questions about this? He will be present for several hearings on the Afghanistan escalation, and following the questions raised by Scahill is directly relevant to what is really going on in the region.

    • Jeff Kaye says:

      No, because Obama has tied his political fate to McChrystal, JSOC and the war party in general.

      For Leen, @101 and elsewhere, pessimism and fatalism do not build a political movement. Because that’s what I see the “blogosphere” as, at this point, i.e., a nascent political movement, in embryo. It may also be the new journalism, or whatever, but the elements that are assembling here and elsewhere will form part of the leadership of the new political party that is needed. It’s clear that the Democrats are not only weak, they are the biggest political obstacle from going down the Cheneyesque sewer hole there is. The GOP’s going to do what it does. The Democrats promise something different, but not only can’t deliver (health care), but make matters worse by tying progressive elements to reactionary policies (the GWOT-inspired wars in Iraq and Afghanistan), or provide leadership so inept and clueless, that it’s leadership is practically criminal (witness the Stupak amendment debacle).

      One can already see a split developing between those who oppose and those who support the President on Afghanistan. The contradictions of having one party that contains such tremendous internal differences will either paralyze the party totally, or split it. Or perhaps history will bypass the Democratic Party entirely.

      The war party has one very large, significant problem, which hinders its dream of total omnipotence, one big superpower rule… and that is that it will bankrupt the U.S., if technically it hasn’t already. To achieve their dreams they must immiserate the United States population, its source of wealth and treasure for their war adventures. The population may not always take such attacks lying down (in fact, you can count on it, they won’t). Even the deep divides and hatred between red and blue parties in the U.S. now will look like a picnic compared to the divisions that will happen if blood flows in the streets.

      I’ve focused on torture in my writings because it clearest there that the patrimony of the Enlightenment, of Jefferson, Madison, and all the rest, has been trashed for the sadistic thrills and power-hungry greed that the turn to torture represented. Torture itself unleashes powerful, deep social psychological irrationalities in the population that suffers it, and in the one that propounds it. It works like a toxin especially on the latter, destroying all that may be good in that society. This is not my unique idea, but the conclusion of sober scholars who have studied the subject.

      The spirit of Louis IV lives on in the utterances of Cheney and his ilk. Obama is at best a Necker. The fate of half-way saviors is not to succeed, nor be remembered well by history.

      • PJEvans says:

        I think that as the GOP goes further into insanity, the Dems will split to fill the void, into liberal and conservative parties, something like what happened when the Whigs collapsed, in the mid-19th century.

        I don’t think the tent can be stretched much further, since the two wings are getting farther apart on so many issues. And so many on the left are ready to leave and join – or form – an more liberal party, and leave the ‘moderates’ to clean up the mess they’ve worked so hard to create.

        • Sara says:

          I don’t think the Democratic Party is nearly as strained today as it was in the 1960’s, when the Roosevelt Consensus came apart over the twin matters of Civil Rights and the Vietnam War. The denonement really came in Chicago, 1968, when Mayor Daley’s Irish Chicago Cops beat the bloody shit out of the delegates representing Irish Catholic Gene McCarthy’s Presidential effort. And the beatings were only the tip of the iceberg afloat at that time. As a participant in the late 60’s and early 70’s process of re-writing the Democratic Party Rules, adopted in 1972, the depth of division was profound — which is why Democrats essentially decided at that point to forget the South and much of what it stood for, and redesign the party in fairly radical ways. If you think it messy now, just remember there once was a time when Strom Thurmond and James Eastland were Senior Democrat Leaders in the Senate, and the likes of Humphrey and Paul Douglass were the Juniors kicking at the traditions.

      • Rayne says:

        No, because Obama has tied his political fate to McChrystal, JSOC and the war party in general.

        Do you think he had any choice? Think about it; the week he takes office, he finds out that the entire government has been riddled with left-behinds and completely subverted by corporate interests, including those of what appear on the face of it to be utterly rogue like Blackwater.

        And at the same time, he finds out that he has nothing else government-owed/-issued in the arsenal of tools to deal with immediate, pressing problems about which the American public and most of the world can’t know. He’s forced to use the tools he has.

        Oh, and by the way, the government-owned/-issued tools he had are not working in his favor or for him. because they have massive problems with bias. The upper echelons of the military, for example — they have struggled with racism and with a bias against a CinC without military background. They have pointedly pissed on his shoes. [edit: You might wonder whether this was a bonus; was Obama’s winning the White House an optimum outcome because it ensured deliberate antipathy by the military’s leadership against him, encouraging those inside compartmentalized programs to stay on track?]

        And when they are not pissing on his shoes, they appear to be out of control. That’s because they are working under the terms of programs set in motion by classified commands, hidden inside compartments, where not even a president can get at them.

        Obama is stuck with this; it’s not a matter of choosing to tie his fate.

        In case you didn’t notice, somebody made the point last week that they can get to the president. They can even shake his hand at a state dinner, and by the time the rest of us figure out what happened, they are out the door, down the street, getting guest gigs on television.

        • Jeff Kaye says:

          Here, take a look at this. From the JSOC academy (PDF).

          This is how low the country has fallen. A science of assassination, a cult of murder.

          Hashshashin — how similar to the current U.S. counterinsurgency doctrine.

          Not merely content to survive, but instead determined to build a new utopia, the Nizāriyya formulated a strategy of gaining control of strategically important fortresses by covertly converting local inhabitants living within and around strategically vital fortresses in Isma’ili territory. They established a new type of state within a state which consisted of a number of “island” fortified settlements within a sea of hostility in present day Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. The formal origin of the Federation of the Assassins is marked as 1090 when Hassan-i Sabbah established his first stronghold in Daylam at the fortress of Alamut (Eagle’s Nest in Persian) south of the Caspian Sea. Alamut remained the capital of the Federation of the Assassins, and the home of its rulers, styled “The Lords of Alamut,” until its destruction.

        • Sara says:

          Rayne, I think you sum up here very well as to the state of things Obama found when he took office. It is particularly important to place emphasis on what had all been rolled over the past eight years, out of direct Presidential Control, and into the dense webs of outsourcing and private Military/Industrial/Intelligence private for profit operations.

          In essence, one job Obama has over at least the next four years, if not the next eight, is to bring much of it back in-house, and in the process eventually get Congress to rewrite Procurement Law so as to make the kind of privatization and outsourcing much more difficult in the future.

          So, for the hell of analysis, let’s assume that what we are currently seeing here is a result of putting the screws to Erik Prince, something I entertain as a real possibility. What are the pins supporting such an analysis?

          First — I suspect someone dropped a dime on Sy Hersh about Cheney having command of his own assassination team, something he reported as part of a very obscure conversation with Walter Mondale at a quickly arranged conversation with Sy Hersh, broadcast on Minnesota Public Radio last spring, before an assortment of Grad Students and Faculty from the Humphrey Institute, and others from the Law School. The Conversation was billed as an anniversary of the Church Committee, on which Mondale served. Hersh tacked the Cheney bit into his summary, it was hardly the feature topic.

          Second, the Hersh speech gets reported nationally. Since Leon Panetta has already been confirmed for CIA, the Senate Committee can’t instantly ask about the truth of Hersh’s reporting. But it seems that Panetta did pick up the report, because a few days later he asks for an appointment with the Senate Intelligence Committee so as to tell them that when he asked questions he found something critical. When he was read into CIA operations (something that would happen immediately after his confirmation) he was NOT told about the Assassination Teams and their command structure — but he had finally pressed, discovered the truth, and indeed something was there.

          Third — I suspect the reason for the dual hatted command of Prince’s operations (and perhaps other outsourced operations) was designed to avoid the requirement of reporting covert ops to the Intelligence Committees. If things were discovered because they went wrong, they were military, and not reportable Otherwise they were probably CIA but unreported to Senate and House Committees. What we don’t know right now, but need to discover, is who paid for Prince’s efforts? What is really bought and paid for by DOD, and what is CIA?

          Third and a Half — what is Prince’s relationship with Peter Hoekstra? Chair of House Intelligence till 2007, represents, I think, Erik Prince’s old home town, Holland Michigan? I am just remembering the minor brew last spring when Pelosi made the claim that CIA briefers lied to her, and Hoekstra stirred up the anti-Pelosi brew on that one, taking attention away from the origin and content of the issue, namely Hersh’s comment that Cheney had his own Assassination Squad. EW and Rayne ought to have insight on this one. (and yea, we need to look again at Goss and Tenet with respect to all this, afterall much of it was on their watch.)

          Fourth — I suggest that Panetta was as pissed off as he has ever been when he discovered he had not been read into all these operations and I suspect he discovered the operations were ongoing. I bet he also discovered that the command and control still went to Cheney through some of the “left behind crowd” he installed before the end of his term. My guess is there was a major housecleaning once Panetta discovered who was involved, and perhaps even referrals to DoJ. In fact, I will go so far to suggest this is precisely what Obama wanted to happen — it looks a little like an accident, but a fortunate one. Obama is in a much better position to clean out the private intelligence ops, the outsourcing and all, if it looks more like Panetta doing the housecleaning in the wake of an (un)fortunate discovery that he had been profoundly deceived. And I suspect Cheney understands all these moves, and at heart, this is what is seemingly sending him off his rocker.

          Four and a Half — I know lots of folk on the Left think Panetta a bit of a waz — but I would contend that is a terrible reading of him. First elected as a moderate Republican, he changed parties because of his distrust of Richard Nixon. In Congress, he specialized in Budget, becoming chair of the Budget Committee, one of the few Congress critters who actually understands the Budget. Spends the 80’s using that special knowledge to thwart Ronald Reagan. Moves to WH at beginning of Clinton Administration.

          Returns to Family Home and Vineyards during the Bush Years. (Family makes fine wines.) In 2002 he is selected by the American Catholic Bishops to head their commission to investigate Priestly Pedophilia, and forces a fairly deep and honest investigation and report. Many trips to Rome to force issues with John Paul and the Vatican Hierarchy. If you think Bill Casey operated as CIA Director with and through the Vatican — Panetta is much more independent, and knows a hell of a lot more secrets they would not want to come out. I think he knows exactly what he is doing, and he is not a Waz.

          Fifth — Obama spends months working on his Afghanistan Policy and Plans. Cheney calls that dithering, but my guess is that much of these months has been spent scrubbing the intelligence back at least eight years, and maybe much more, perhaps back to Charlie Wilson’s time. At a minimum, any way forward needs to be based in verified intelligence, and with Prince, Cheney and all the other cooks in the kitchen over the years, no one knew what was what. I bet they found lots of seemingly hard-wired connections with the Neo-Con’s, Prince, Cheney and other operations, and they have been very busy quietly using their wire clippers.

          Anyhow, I think this is what it adds up to, and Prince is a bit pissed. Thus the disinformation VF article.

          • bobschacht says:

            Sara,
            Thanks for this perceptive summary. I think Obama and his crew were not naive about the conditions they would find, and I think they knew that for the first year they were going to be governing with a lot of Bush holdovers.

            But it is becoming clear (to those who didn’t already know) that Obama is determined to govern from the “center.” What is not clear is (a) who or what the “center” really is, at this time, and (b) is the center willing to cooperate? I think he thought that he could include some moderate Republicans in his center coalition. If so, I think he underestimated the Republican’s party discipline, and that– at least in the Senate– all the moderate centrists are already in the Democratic Party and not in the Republican Party.

            I think Obama understands much more clearly now who the key players are, and whether they are willing to work with him or not. And I’m referring to political appointees, elected officials, and civil service professionals. I think we’re going to see some spring house cleaning.

            Bob in AZ

      • Leen says:

        thanks

        “pessimism and fatalism do not build a political movement” I am not going to act like I am all hopeful and positive when I am not. But I am also not a “fatalist” The hundreds of thousands/millions in the streets during the civil rights era, Vietnam, Apartheid, pre invasion protest has given me hope over the years. I have been there to participate and add my presence and witness along with other efforts. As many of us have been taught by our faith or spiritual practices “honor your conscience” you may or may not witness the fruits of that labor.

        But I am not going to pretend that the blood in the streets of Iraq, Afghanistan do not get to me. And while it does, I can guarantee I do my part in pushing hard for accountability for serious crimes committed on innocents

  36. Rayne says:

    MadDog (7) — Amazing the different perspective Horton has as an attorney. But I think Prince chose Ciralsky because of his animus towards the CIA, not merely because Ciralsky’s got background with them. Nor do I think Prince chose Ciralsky to “develop his legal defense”; this would put Ciralsky in a situation where First Amendment protections and attorney-client privilege. Ciralsky is entirely aware of the issues as you can see by his pointed insertion of disclosure.

    Sara (33) — not a lie on Prince’s part, depending on how you look at that. If passing a polygraph is a qualification for employment, well…

    cinnamonape (41) — yes, there’s laws against sheltering assets, but we’re talking about a corporation versus an individual. Is the corporation involved, or is Erik Prince involved? Is the corporation read into SAPs or ACCMs or is Prince?

    This is not a little point.

    person1597 (49) — Wow, this is even more fun the deeper we dig into it. What if there’s enough debt that THERE ARE NO ASSETS?

    There’s an interesting little line in the VF piece which one could read as hyperbole , it’s not, just as nothing else in that piece is anything but planned. Prince cays,

    Meanwhile I’m paying for all sorts of intelligence activities to support American national security, out of my own pocket.”

    SouthernDragon (56) — My take is that somebody has already tried to “clean up loose ends” and that Prince is ready for any such attempt, right down to having coached his kids on what to do in the event they are taken as human bait.

    Prince shows you how ready he is, right there in the article.

    Obviously only half-way through the thread…more in a bit.

  37. Citizen92 says:

    The last time Erik Prince did media, it was back in October 2007. That’s when Waxman’s committee did an oversight hearing on private military contracting. Prince testified, alone (I think), on panel two. It did not go well for Prince.

    His response was to do a piece for 60 Minutes. In that interview, he had the same poised self confidence that seems to ooze from the Vanity Fair piece.

    Something’s clearly up.

  38. Jeff Kaye says:

    Do you think he had any choice? …

    Obama is stuck with this; it’s not a matter of choosing to tie his fate.

    In case you didn’t notice, somebody made the point last week that they can get to the president. They can even shake his hand at a state dinner, and by the time the rest of us figure out what happened, they are out the door, down the street, getting guest gigs on television.

    Why does one become a leader? To lead? To get one’s ego stroked? To enrich oneself? To change history? I imagine there are many reasons.

    It seems likely Obama had a good idea of what the government was really like from his days in academia, and then later as an organizer, and finally as a U.S. Senator. He is no naif.

    Did he have any choice? Of course he did, and what he chose was to play within in the Beltway traditional wisdom rules. With all those hundreds of thousands who came to see him, he delivered platitudes (which they ate up), but took not a step to mobilize those people.

    The state apparatus is rotten and corrupt. It has been delivered to the worst elements, who are driven by sadistic impulses, tremendous greed, and narcissistic dreams of omnipotent fulfillment. Of course, they are terribly insecure and afraid, as well. That’s why they believe a single terrorist, or act of terror can destroy them. They are an open book.

    If one seeks political power now, one will have to drop the inane reliance on conventional wisdom and adherence to the status quo. One must especially look towards mobilizing the population to do things, to drop preaching passive reliance on mere electoralism, or passive dependence on politicians who have little or no interest in acting on behalf of regular people.

    Obama could have come on television and told the truth. He could have stated it over and over. He could have told people to fill the streets to back him, as he went after the dead-enders, and tried to get control of the Pentagon. This has done before by leaders in history. He could have done that. But of course, he never came into office intending to do that. But he did imply or tell voters he would bring change. He brought nothing of the sort.

    Are you saying, with your implication that they can get to him at any time, that he would have been killed for doing what I suggest? If that’s the state of affairs, then why are we cowering behind those who are accomplices to such a dire dictatorship? Let’s say what is, get it over with, and let the chips fall where they may.

  39. Gitcheegumee says:

    Somewhat off topic

    Addressed to Jeff Kaye:

    Jeff, On your earlier thread here a couple of days ago, you did a piece about Zabaydah,mentioning another torture victim,who had been released to the Jordainans-and his whereabouts are not now known…

    “Ibrahim Mahdi Achmed Zeidan, a Jordanian prisoner transferred from Guantanamo to Jordan two years ago (despite the fact the Jordanians told him they “would beat” him when he was released from Guantanamo),”….

    One of the Blackwater affiliates-Total Information Awareness-is run by Cofer Black and its ties to King Abdullah of Jordan are well documented. I left a series of links on the aforementioned ,earlier thread of yours, if you’re interested.

    • Jeff Kaye says:

      Thanks. I don’t know how much I can follow the Zeidan story. When people disappear into the black hole, it’s beyond my resources to know what happened to them.

      I once had a client who was tortured by the Jordanian secret police. It was quite horrible. The Jordanians are considered, along with the Egyptians and the Syrians to be among the worst torturers in the Middle East. They appear to have a special relationship with the U.S. And they love to torture Palestinians. (The U.S. sent DHS agents to the INS courtroom to find my client and get him sent back to Jordanian torture.) For all the stories of Israeli torture and persecutions of Palestinians, and there are plenty, the Jordanians have done more than their share of harm.

      • Gitcheegumee says:

        re: Total Intelligence Solution’s Robert Richer:

        “Take the case of Jordan. For years,Robert Richer worked closely with King Abdullah, as his CIA liaison. As journalist Ken Silverstein reported, “The CIA has lavishly subsidized Jordan’s intelligence service, and has sent millions of dollars in recent years for intelligence training. After Richer retired, sources say, he helped Blackwater land a lucrative deal with the Jordanian government to provide the same sort of training offered by the CIA. Millions of dollars that the CIA ‘invested’ in Jordan walked out the door with Richer – if this were a movie, it would be a cross between Jerry Maguire and Syriana.

        In a 2007 interview on the cable business network CNBC, Black was brought on as an analyst to discuss “investing in Jordan.” At no point in the interview was Black identified as working for the Jordanian government. Total Intelligence was described as “a corporate consulting firm that includes investment strategy,” while “Ambassador Black” was introduced as “a 28-year veteran of the CIA,” the “top counterterror guy,” and “a key planner for the breathtakingly rapid victory of American forces that toppled the Taliban in Afghanistan.”

        Excerpt, Scahill, ‘We Need to Appoint a Special Prosecutor”, linky to follow

        • Jeff Kaye says:

          Interesting connections I did not know. Thanks.

          As for the rest, re those who think Obama is now realizing just what he’s up against, playing the eleven-dimension chess, etc. You’d think all that would be shattered by the recent decision to escalate in Afghanistan. I guess it hasn’t been.

          Re Sara’s “much of these months has been spent scrubbing the intelligence back at least eight years, and maybe much more, perhaps back to Charlie Wilson’s time”, I can only say that there in Charlie Wilson’s time the Afghan covert intervention was an anti-Soviet enterprise, the last big operation of the Cold War. And it was big! What kind of intelligence could there be that Obama needed to “scrub”? It’s not like the U.S. had no idea of what Afghanistan was like, or which warlords were where, and where the bodies were buried.

          The decision to follow McChrystal’s campaign for escalation was made at the behest of the giant military/intel octopus of the MIC. Not only is it not in the U.S. national interest to be there, it is against the national interest to be there, and certainly to up the ante there. Maybe not the national interest of Raytheon, Lockheed, Xe and others, but against the national interest of you and me, of the millions of unemployed and uninsured, of those who thought a country was for its citizens, and not to be sold off to an elite to enrich them, and create a cult of “warfighters” and “manhunters”.

          • Gitcheegumee says:

            Well, that explains why there is a snafu in releasing classified documents going back at least a quarter century,as was recently announced…./Snark

    • bobschacht says:

      One of the Blackwater affiliates-Total Information Awareness-is run by Cofer Black

      Wasn’t that Admiral Poindexter’s baby? The one that Congress de-funded? Ah, yes it was.

      I guess it will take a golden stake driven through its heart in order to kill it.

      Bob in AZ

  40. Rayne says:

    Are you saying, with your implication that they can get to him at any time, that he would have been killed for doing what I suggest? If that’s the state of affairs, then why are we cowering behind those who are accomplices to such a dire dictatorship? Let’s say what is, get it over with, and let the chips fall where they may.

    It’s really hard to lead change if you’re dead. It’s hard to make sure the right things get done if you’re dead. Jeepers, look at Ted Kennedy — no assassination, just plain old fashioned age-facilitated death, and already his name has been invoked by shitheels doing the opposite of what he would have wanted.

    You’re a very smart chap; why do you think corporations have been fueling the white nationalist rage? They’re certainly not worried about brand damage. You’ve been following their corporate minions, their little infant corporate spawn like Mitchell-Jessen. These organizations are pointedly and delibarately set up to subvert the rule of law. Why do you think they’d stop at undermining U.S. and international law?

    The only way this needle is going to be threaded is with a sustained effort on our part, and with continued increased engagement by more citizens. It’s going to take a more concerted effort to talk openly about this, laying out the facts — and at the same time, continuing to place pressure in such a way that the system has no choice but to cough up the rest.

    Imagine a Congress which forced the Executive Office into a corner through open investigations and hearings. It would thwart any effort by outside parties to deter EO, making the effort untenable. It may take another Senate Watergate Committee to crack this open. I hesitate to say Iran Contra, because this is Iran Contra all over again, only on crack and steroids; it represents what Cheney learned from Iran Contra, and the challenge for us is how to learn something from Iran Contra to deal with this many-headed Hydra.

  41. Gitcheegumee says:

    We Need a Special Prosecutor for Blackwater and Other CIA …Aug 31, 2009 … Attorney General Eric Holder should appoint a special prosecutor just to …. The Progressive Mind » We Need a Special Prosecutor for …
    original.antiwar.com/…/we-need-a-special-prosecutor-for-blackwater/ – Cached

  42. Gitcheegumee says:

    08/24/2009
    Merchants of Death
    Memo Reveals Details of Blackwater Targeted Killings Program
    By Gabor Steingart in Washington

    Part 2: Assassination Teams and Extraordinary Renditions

  43. Gitcheegumee says:

    @135

    Speaking of the Phillipines-here’s a current newsflash:

    Martial law declared in Philippine province after massacre
    Source: Laredo Sun

    MANILA, December 5, 2009 (AFP) – The Philippine government declared martial law in a southern province Saturday as it vowed to crush the private armies of the region’s ruling clan that is accused of being behind the massacre of 57 people.

    President Gloria Arroyo placed Maguindanao province under military control late on Friday in an effort to contain the militias belonging to the provincial governor and other members of his Muslim clan, the government said.

    It was also implemented to make it easier to bring the clan members into custody, presidential spokesman Cerge Remonde told reporters.

    (snp)

    It was the first time martial law had been declared anywhere in the Philippines since the reign of dictator Ferdinand Marcos. He had the whole of the country under martial law from 1972 to 1981.

    Within hours of martial law being declared, special forces detained the province’s governor and patriarch of the clan, Andal Ampatuan Snr, who since 2001 had ruled Maguindanao with the backing of his own private army.

    Read more: http://www.laredosun.us/notas.asp?id=1583

  44. person1597 says:

    This sounds like a great long term strategy…

    I suggest he wants to clean up the private contractor mess, that he has thought it through, and intentionally plans to execute, but he is not going to give his opponents, the Cheney and Rumsfeld cohorts (Including the Erik Prince’s of the world and all others who have benefited from the profits running from the private contractor systems), who dreamed up Privatization of the Military back in the late stages of the first Bush Administration, a target to shoot at. He’ll move cautiously forward on that score, and in a sense hope he provokes them into making a gross mistake.

    What I worry about in the short term are those whose aspirations have become marginalized — they have everything to gain and little left to lose by manufacturing a crisis. They act like cornered animals on the slightest cue. Their manufactured outrage flows like Beck’s tears. If Obama wants messy, they’ll oblige him as a matter of personal projection. Their pride goeth before their fall (to be sure) but beware the wet clean-up!

    These guys are used to having their way and now all of a sudden their points’ of view are existentially discontinuous. They’re staring into the abyss like never before because their sense of self, their raison d’etre is dissolving. The enemy isn’t those brown guys — heck, they miss all the fun times with Al the Q. It’s the blue badgers who chilled the mosh.

    It’s going to be a messy divorce and they’re acting like jilted spouses on the rebound because their sense of domestic tranquility has shattered.

    From the Atlantic piece…

    Congressmen and lawyers, human-rights groups and pundits, have described Prince as a war profiteer, one who has assembled a rogue fighting force capable of toppling governments.

    It really is divorce…

    Is living nude the best revenge?

    Oops,wrong Atlantic article. That was the supermodel who dumped the tycoon. But will EP kiss-and-tell?

    He also hoped to convey why he’s going to walk away from it all.

    That’s a laugh. Does anyone really believe he can just walk away? Who will pay the mortgage? (16 page pdf)

    “Suffice to say that there are a lot of allegations and cross-allegations going back and forth.

    Sorry. That’s from the divorce piece again. Though there is the Hollywood sensationalism…

    If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don’t have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills … skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.

    OK, that was from a movie, but it is how Prince sees himself post-CIA.

    Prince comments, “I used that movie as a teaching tool for my girls.” [snip] “I wanted them to understand the dangers out there. And I wanted them to know how I would respond.”

    So just because his gig is up is that it? Is it over just like that?

    He cannot stand down.

    Suppose that means he’s a stand up kind of guy — loyal, brave, committed to sweet revenge… And with his new wind turbine, he can generate 50 Kilowatts. Just the thing in case the power goes out everywhere else. (And why would that happen? Because he’s bitter?)

    “We used to spend money on R&D to develop better capabilities to serve the U.S. government,” says Prince. “Now we pay lawyers.”

    So his guys are on trial, his gigs are winding down, his point of view is losing continuity…

    Prince confesses to feeling betrayed. “I don’t understand how a program this sensitive leaks,” he says. “And to ‘out’ me on top of it?”

    So what’s the deal. Is it really the Dems or is it just the whole government against the Dark Prince. Why would he get the shaft when he can “reach around” better than anyone…

    “This program died because of a lack of political will.”

    So, that’s it — he just wants to be loved? And Bush lost his lovin’ feelin’ after the 2004 “election”.

    Instead, due to what he calls “institutional osteoporosis,” the second iteration of the assassination program lost steam.

    How long before the little Prince goes rogue?

    The firestorm that began in August has continued to smolder and may indeed have his handlers wondering whether Prince himself is more of a liability than an asset.

    He’s not going to stand down, so what’s next for the black-bagger? Teabagging?

    At one point, he considered creating a rapidly deployable brigade that could be farmed out, for a fee, to a foreign government.

    How about a domestic government in exile? Would they pay the fee? And what would he do for that fee? Would there be the usual services?

    Here’s the thing. The shadow counterforce capability that Prince represents could be deployed in circumstances of chaos and martial law domestically just as easily or more so than in foreign conflicts. So if the dictator-in-exile wanted to re-restore the Dark Side Authority without the inconvenience of an election, then Prince’s nightmare skill set could once again be…

    capable of toppling governments

    And just how might the Teabaggers-cum-BlackBaggers accomplish their goal of a New American Order?

    Ask Machiavelli

    The basic problem of mercenaries is that they are loyal to the wage and not the prince, and a wage is insufficient motivation for a man to sacrifice his life. This problem is even more stark when one contemplates the mercenary captain. If he is a capable man, he may aspire to prince-hood and take the prince’s own nation by force. If he is not capable, then he will bring about that nation’s ruin through his own incompetence.

    Either way, the mercs are trouble. It’s almost as if we’ve become a nation of mercenaries the way we invaded Iraq and all… And all that capacity for war has yet to unwind.

  45. readerOfTeaLeaves says:

    These guys are used to having their way and now all of a sudden their points’ of view are existentially discontinuous. They’re staring into the abyss like never before because their sense of self, their raison d’etre is dissolving.

    In some respects, it appears to be growing.
    But it does seem rather 1980s, and it’s becoming quaintly pre-global warming given that the nature of the problems we increasingly face appear to have more to do with issues of personal identity (a la ‘terrorism’) or environmental (and food supply) problems.

    Prince’s services fit the rancorous resource-grabs of nation states and corporations. But they appear ill-equipped to deal with desertification, locating stable water supplies, and a host of other problems that can’t be solved by assassination, black ops, or surveillance.

    The unfairness of it all must have our Machievellian Erik feeling sold out and steaming.

    Meanwhile, the galaxies keep spinning, neither noting nor caring…

    • person1597 says:

      One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh; but the earth abideth forever”

      With this last hurrah escalation in the works, your point is well taken. If the pre-sold exit strategy unfolds in 2011, Sara’s long term view may well come to pass. That suggests a wait and see standoff for the players on the stage. At least for the rational players.

      While it makes sense to co-opt the MIC towards a declared goal, it doesn’t remove the incentive for the dead-enders to sabotage the process. The political momentum of the right will fail if is not brought into relevance in a publicly discernible manner. The Teabaggers are a spent force without the perception of a crisis to energize them.

      The appearance of “control” is essential for this administration to be believed domestically. So it is easy to pass muster with the “center” by doing the bidding of the centrist “finish the job” aspiration.

      Conversely, the chaos-dependent conservative opposition’s incentives are completely misaligned with the needs of the nation and the world — food, clothing and shelter — as you allude. To these power-mad extremists of the ideological right, mundane concerns are irrelevant. Power is the only means of prosperity and they are facing a difficult proposition — life as marginalized has-beens, or no life at all. They are going to throw tantrums rather than sit in the corner.

      So given their propensity to cause trouble in the most extreme ways, I don’t believe we can sit back and assume that all is well just because the Dems hold a majority in Congress and our guy in the WH is smart enough to know how the machine works. We haven’t seen the darkest hour. We haven’t seen the Dawn. He have seen the Donnybrook that conservatives are more than willing to instigate. We need to understand the extent to which they’ll intentionally disrupt the effort to rein them in. So will they burn out if left to their own devices?

      I wouldn’t underestimate the folly of right wing ideology. We’ve seen how vindictive they are were in the position of power they once enjoyed. Now that they are in the struggle to regain their lost dominance, the bitterness of their downfall will bring unparalleled savagery to their quest for re-empowerment. For them, the context is do or die. Everything is on the table for them and nothing short of total victory will be satisfying. They have become as a lost generation. Impotent from their wounds but struggling to regain their vitality. Even if it precipitates total annihilation, because to destroy a thing is to control a thing.

      And those who depend on control will seek the means of control as surely as the sun also rises.

      • Sara says:

        “So given their propensity to cause trouble in the most extreme ways, I don’t believe we can sit back and assume that all is well just because the Dems hold a majority in Congress and our guy in the WH is smart enough to know how the machine works. We haven’t seen the darkest hour. We haven’t seen the Dawn. He have seen the Donnybrook that conservatives are more than willing to instigate. We need to understand the extent to which they’ll intentionally disrupt the effort to rein them in. So will they burn out if left to their own devices?”

        I think the Obama strategy (not sure how far it extends into the Democrats in Congress) is to provoke the right into making mistakes. Worship of The Fair Sarah Palin for instance takes up energy, but hardly gains them supporters. Teabag rallies, ditto. Taking Dick Cheney Seriously also doesn’t seem to be turning heads. Erik Prince seems to come from a family where the men die young of heart attacks. True for his Father, Grandfather, and Great Grandfather. Maybe he will get Arthritis. But I also think Prince faces legal problems, which may keep him busy for a few years, if not longer. These guys are prepared to massive seize power, but they are not prepared for a more gradual power erosion — and faced with this they are likely to be provoked to make mistakes. I suspect there will be a continued drip drip of information related to this whole yarn ball of Blackwater off-the-books der doing, contributing to their demise.

        • person1597 says:

          Thanks for your response, a coupla shots of Bookers and I’m ready to spell it out…

          What is really bugging the reichtards? It’s the way the economy imploded during the Bush administration. That wasn’t supposed to happen under the uber-capitalist’s baton of deregulation, free enterprise and financial innovation. Consequently, the Enron president (sounds almost quaint now) faces the umbrage of history for misfeasance, malfeasance and nonfeasance.

          Bush Performed poorly as a leader, was absent intellectually, and subverted the accumulated goodwill of the modern era through his criminally insane devolution into pervasive, corrupt and malicious inhumanity. So much for the guy you’d share a beer with at the bar. And the republicans can’t deal with the fact that he is their albatross. What do we hear from the red-state critics nowadays? Nothing but projection of their discontent with Bush. It would be their liberation to transfer their ire to a Democrat so that they could release themselves from the perdition of the Bush-Cheney debacle. But they can’t. Or they can’t without a suitable reprise of the Bush era failures in war and the economy under the current administration.

          The possibility to replicate the failures of the Bush administration during Obama’s term would be an equalizing catharsis. The prospects of “getting even” would play less as revenge and more as deliverance from a verdict on the efficacy of conservatism. The conservative movement, vanquished by the electorate, lies in tatters awaiting some kind of vengeful reincarnation so that they may tar the opposition with their singularly necrotic mindset, and thus level the playing field once again.

          But what kind of disaster could be brought to bear by a disgruntled but animated core of malcontents? Would it be possible to wreck the economy? Could they sabotage the plan to re-establish sovereignty in the countries we now occupy? Is it possible to create enough political disruption to shut the government down? That would suit their goals, but do they have the means. Geithner thinks so…

          “None of them would have survived” had the government stood aside and let the crisis run its course, he said. “The entire U.S. financial system and all the major firms in the country, and even small banks across the country, were at that moment at the middle of a classic run, a classic bank run.”

          So the next time there is a run on the banks, you know what the Teabaggers are trying to do. And even Goldman Sachs won’t be able to stop it.

          “If the financial system collapsed, we would have collapsed too,” he said. “We believe that government action averted a major systemic problem.”

          From the future perspective of hindsight, the only way the Democrats can be brought down to the level of the Republicans is if they both fall in the ditch. Let’s hope our leaders aren’t blind to this possibility.

          • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

            Well, no time to comment with any thoughtfulness at present, just logged in to leave quick ‘thank you’s’ for the comments here, including Gitchee’s, in the past 12 hours.

            My, oh, my….
            And it’s so interesting how Cheney’s 2001 Secret Energy Task Force comes up again, and again, and again.

            As does the theme of extremist either-or thinking and radicalized politics.

            Amazing comments.
            Thanks to all.

  46. Gitcheegumee says:

    Also @146

    Are you familair with the Caspian Guard Initiative?

    The democracy now interview(bottommost link) is a must read about this,and Blackwater’s role in it- please pay attention to all the dates involved in this somewhat brief interview:

    Blackwater: The Rise of the World’s Most Powerful Mercenary Army – Google Books Resultby Jeremy Scahill – 2008 – History – 550 pages
    As the Caspian Guard program got underway in 2004, “the Azerbaijani parliament … Enter Blackwater In early 2004, with the United States ratcheting up its …
    books.google.com/books?isbn=156858394X…

    Army …The “Caspian Guard” operation used Blackwater troops to guard the oil pipeline through Georgia (after the US helped to subvert the government of Eduard …
    http://www.goodreads.com/…/96491.Blackwater_The_Rise_of_the_World_s_Most_Powerful_Mercenary_Army – Cached

    Part II – Blackwater: The Rise of the World’s Most Powerful …Mar 21, 2007 … Scahill discusses Blackwater’s role in the Caspian Sea region in Central … So what they began doing was a program called Caspian Guard, …
    http://www.democracynow.org/…/part_ii_blackwater_the_rise_of – Cached – Similar

    • Gitcheegumee says:

      Here is an excerpt from the Democracy Now interview referred to in the comment @ 150:

      (For the record,the US invaded Afghanistan October 7,2001)

      When the Bush administration took power a few years ago, the Cheney Energy Commission in 2001 did a study, and they found that there were 20 billion barrels of oil in the Caspian Sea, and its supplies rivaled that of the United States, slightly less than the United States. And so, the Bush administration put it on the fast track to try to open up a pipeline running from Azerbaijan, the port city of Baku, westward, and the resources of the Caspian were intended to go to Western European markets.
      Well, a story that’s gotten almost no attention is that, as the Bush administration began to tap the resources of the Caspian Sea, it realized that it needed to have security forces in the region, but they didn’t want to have an overt US military presence, especially with the occupation of Iraq impending and the occupation of Afghanistan. So what they began doing was a program called Caspian Guard, where they started building up the military forces in Georgia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan. And this was a program that got very little media attention.

      And so, beginning in July of 2004, the Bush administration sends Blackwater into the most strategic part of this operation, into the port city of Baku, which juts out from Azerbaijan’s coast into the Caspian Sea. And Blackwater quietly went in there on a $2.5 million original contract, and they set up a ninety-man special forces unit of the Azerbaijani military, modeled after the US Navy Seals. So they were exporting training for the most elite forces in the US.
      . And what this mission did was allow the Bush administration to send in loyalist forces from the private sector, have plausible deniability that there was an active US military presence and build up not only defense for the pipeline project, which is now open and flowing, but also some have suggested that it could be used, that facility that Blackwater built up, as one of several forward operating bases for a potential attack against Iran.

  47. person1597 says:

    Please excuse the proofreading oversights in the haste of my reply.

    Perhaps I should elaborate on the nature of my concerns at a more opportune hour…

  48. Gitcheegumee says:

    rotl,you might want to add this too the early fall,2005 timeline:

    http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Security&loid

    AZERBAIJAN: U.S. FINANCING RADAR STATION NEAR IRANIAN BORDER SAY REPORTS

    Tehran,2005, 26 Sept. (AKI) – The Iranian media has reported a decision by the United States to finance radar stations in the central Asian republic of Azerbaijan, that the government in Tehran says are part of a military strategy by Washington to encircle the Islamic Republic. One of the stations is reported to be 20 kilometres from the Iranian town of Astara, while another is situated in Khizi, 50 kilometres from the border with Russia.

    The construction of the two stations is part of the Caspian Guard Initiative, an American project which aims to guarantee the security of the 3.6 billion dollar, 1,600 kilometre-long Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline that runs from Baku in Azerbaijan to the Turkish port city of Ceyhan.

    According to the US embassy officials in the Azerbaijan capital Azera, the Caspian Guard Initiative will cost about 135 million US dollars.

    The government in Tehran considers the project a cover for a larger project that will target the Iran militarily. It would also include other initiatives such as an air base that the Americans are constructing near Herat in Afghanistan, a naval base in Bahrain and various military structures in the south and north of Iraq.

  49. Gitcheegumee says:

    Coincidentally, just yesterday,testimony regarging 2007 coup p-lot in Turkey:

    Turkey: Military in court over coup plot – Scotsman.com NewsDec 5, 2009 … Turkey: Military in court over coup plot – THREE retired military commanders appeared in court yesterday to testify in a probe into a plot …
    news.scotsman.com/…/Turkey-Military-in-court-over.5887696.jp – 19 hours ago

    EurasiaNet Civil Society – Turkey: Coup Investigation Raises …Jan 22, 2009 … Turkey: Coup Investigation Raises Government-Military Tension – news and analysis about Central Asia and the Caucasus.
    http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insightb/…/eav012209e.shtml – Cached – Similar

  50. Gitcheegumee says:

    Dick Cheney, 1998-“I cannot think of a time when we have had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian.”

  51. alinaustex says:

    Sara
    Thank you for some very useful analysis- all up and down this thread.
    But particularly wanted to respond to comment 165 – In 1985 I was hired as crew member for a brand new moving and storage company -it was an Allied Van Lines operation . The general manager was a career officer in the US Army -recently retired- two tours of Viernam in helo’s
    This GM hired as large and diverse a crew as possible -and later fired his asssistant manager for making racist/sexist statements. This former office/general manager said that there were many hard won lessons from that era-but one of the hardest lessoned learned from Vietnam was that the US Military needed to diversify and rebuild with the changing demographics of our country.
    This retired officer was a very good boss – and I believe as you do that President Obama picked West Point to reach directly the next generation officers.

  52. Sara says:

    Yea, the history of dealing with Racism in the Military is a very interesting and revealing matter. Everyone remembers Truman’s Executive Order of March, 1948 — to which there was much yelping, but in the end I am convinced it is a major reason he won election in 48, having given African-Americans something very positive to go out and vote FOR in the key Northern Industrial States where they could vote.

    Next Milestone was Korea. Actually that war began with hardly a thing done by the military to execute Truman’s order, so they still had all the seperate divisions, supply lines, and officer cadre. But the quick retreat down to the south produced so much disorganization, they actually integrated combat brigades under fire. Merged the supply lines, and the officers were assigned based on the job, not race. But on return, everyone went back to seperate units, bases, housing and all the rest. It would not be till the 1960’s at the beginning of the Kennedy Administration that an executive order came down to integrate base housing, and any off-base housing where DOD had provided all or partial financing. It would not be till about 1966 that most of the military understood that the “Affirmative Action” concept in the 64 Civil Rights Bill also applied to desegregating military jobs. Vietnam was ongoing as this happened, the services really didn’t have policy, and far too many in the Officer Corps believed it didn’t apply to them.

    But the worst problem in Nam — one that got worse as the war became increasingly unpopular, was the way the draft worked. White middle and upper class types could work the system, use college deferrments, join the national guard which was still effectively segregated in many parts of the country, and was riddled with political influence. Result, Blacks were way over represented in the universe of those who got drafted, and had no access to a way out. So you ended up with Combat groups that were 30-40% black and minority, with Uncommissioned Officers and Officers who were all out of the formerly segregated systems. And it got worse year by year, particularly because so many of the late 60’s black recruits had learned to stand up to racism as a result of the movement. About 1969 it got very ugly, and stayed that way till the Vietnam era was over. But there were a few high level officers in all the services who comprehended the matter, and pushed deep policy changes.

    No question but what Colin Powell was an Affirmative Action Promotion. He wasn’t from the Point, but he had the right political skills for major promotions, so he got Command School, then White House Fellowship, then Joint Chief’s staff position in the 70’s, Then back to Reagan and GHWBush’s White House. In part Powell helped write the Military’s eventual long term Affirmative Action plan — which among other things included subsidies to Historic Black Colleges for ROTC programs, and changes in the appointment process to the Service Schools so as to actually integrate the Point, Annapolis, and the AF Academy. Powell was also responsible for a little known one year prep school designed to take qualified minority grads from poor inner city high schools, and give them a stiff residential remedial year before they moved on to the service colleges. It’s the Military, the only objective was to make the mission of a much larger universe of qualified minorities capable of successfully completing education and training available for appointments and promotions. During the Carter Years, (1977-1981), Powell and Wesley Clark shared a large suite in the Pentagon, where all the plans for the all volunteer force’s training were drawn up — and Powell’s special jobs were fit into that part of the Pentagon. It was only during the Reagan and Pappa Bush years that Powell became the public face of high ranking black on the WH Staff (NSC) and ultimately as chair of the JCS.

    I was delighted when Obama picked Shinseki to head the VA — perhaps Cabinet Secretary is not equal to eventually being JCS, but a wrong was recitified there. Likewise, I think Taguba has been appointed to head the Fort Hood investigative commission, (everything but the criminal matters) and recommend changes. Another smart move I think. But I still await the day that someone says outloud and in public that throwing these guys under the bus for telling the truth was Rumsfeld’s responsibility.

    But it still is the Military — there are no lateral transfers into the Army or Air Force from Civilian Professions at rank, you grow your own Officer Class, and those eligible for high level jobs have to get their ticket’s punched in the ranks, and then compete for and win the assignments that lead to promotion. After being in Iraq and Afghanistan for a tour or two, then Staff College for instance, or the ticket to the three years all expense paid PhD at Columbia or Johns Hopkins. No one will get the public face policy jobs without perhaps 25 years or more climbing the ladder. Presidents and Secretaries of Defense can reach down in the ranks of the officer corps, and jump people up over more senior in rank officers, but they have to otherwise stay within the clear lines of the hierarchy.

    alinaustexas, I don’t know whether it is good or bad that so many younger people today have so little sense of history to know how actually recent the notion of the profound value of diversity really is. I am of the generation that actually did the Civil Rights Movement, and I spent ten years post college employed by Civil Rights Organizations — so all the conflicts one after another to get to the next stage seem quite recent to me — but I also know from teaching College for years that if it happened before you picked up on TV news, it probably isn’t useful knowledge.

    Watched a little of Book TV on C-Span on Saturday night, the author had done a book on the 1961 Freedom Rides, and his cover is postage stamp sized reprints of the mug shots of the Freedom Riders who were thrown in Parchman Prison in Mississippi. I must get that book now…for I know a good many of those people. One of my jobs at the time was raising money from churches for National Council of Churches bailfund, legal fees and the outlandish costs associated with getting copies of Mississippi Court Papers. Seems like yesterday. At issue, the right to ride a Greyhound Bus and following the Interstate Commerce Commission’s ruling, to sit in any open seat — and then the right to get a sandwich and cup of coffee at a bus terminal — and all without getting your head bashed in. It will be 50 years ago in 2011.

    • Gitcheegumee says:

      Sara,
      As a fairly recent poster here,I am humbled,amazed and very grateful for your wisdom and willingness to share it here for all’s benefit .

      A profund thank you.

      May I ask a couple of questions?

      re: Civil rights demonstrations in the deep South in the ’60’s, are you familiar with Lucy Komisar?

      And have you ever seen the play and/or movie “A Soldier’s Story”?
      Excellent ! Revolves around black soldiers in the Deep South ,back in the ’50’s.

      Thanking you in advance for any reply.

  53. alinaustex says:

    Sara
    The historical context for racial eqaulity still has repercussions now-the Gen Boykins of our military are still racist -if not toward our own service members -but to those ‘ragheads,and hajis’ . My belief is that Prince with his religious worldview as a context has hired many,many Christian deadenders -that are sure that Jesus will be here soon.And unfortunately too -here down South that same conservative Christian context has lead to the lynchings – and now to the torture chambers.
    My question is how come Gen Powell did not resign in the face of this obvious abuse that came to known as gwb43 ?
    And there were historically attempts to stand up against the racist here in the South- My adopted hometown- Austin ,Tx was occuppied by the CSA during the Civil War because it was an abolitionist hotbed. And more recently my deceased grandfather was some ninety years ago an organizer for the trade unions in Louisiana -he sometimes would talk about the pitched battles the unionist, catholics and blacks would have with the hired security thugs -he called them generically ‘PINKS’- for Pinkertons.
    My grandfather later became an avid supporter of Reagan though…

  54. Gitcheegumee says:

    @169:
    Al, you might be interested in the movie,too, with your Louisiana connection,especially.
    A Soldier’s Story

    A Soldier’s Story is a 1984 drama film directed by Norman Jewison, based upon Charles Fuller’s Pulitzer Prize-winning Off Broadway production A Soldier’s Play.
    A black officer is sent to investigate the murder of a black sergeant in Louisiana near the end of World War II. It is a story about racism and segregation in a black U.S. Army regiment with white officers deep in the Jim Crow South, in a time and place where a black officer is unprecedented and bitterly resented by nearly everyone.

    The movie was first shown at the Toronto Film Festival. It won the New York Drama Critics Award, the Outer Critics Circle Award, the Theater Club Award, and three Village Voice Obie Awards. It was also nominated for three Academy Awards: for Best Picture, Supporting Actor (Adolph Caesar as the murder victim), and Screenplay Adaptation.

    Plot
    Conflicted, light-skinned Sergeant Waters (Adolph Caesar) ruthlessly heaps abuse upon his men. He calls them all “worthless geechees”, Thus, when he is killed, there are plenty of suspects for Captain Davenport (Howard E. Rollins, Jr.).
    Denzel Washington, in his first role in a big Hollywood production, portrays the deeply embittered Pfc. Peterson.

    • Sara says:

      I didn’t see the movie, but I remember the play from either a review or reading the script at some point.

      The subject of the military was always a favorite of Hollywood when trying to deal with racism, racial conflict and all, in the 50’s and early 60’s. I suspect this is because a story about the military can be done without any particular “romantic interest” and for both the theatre and film, it was always a problem to present an interracial story where romantic interests might be part of the scene. I think it was about 64 or 65 that Sidney Ponteir and Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy made “Guess who is Coming to Dinner,” and that otherwise fairly trivial story about boy meets girl, boy and girl go to parent’s house for dinner – shocked many sensibilities. It really was the first exploration of a pretty standard brand romantic theme with interracial characteristics.

      No, I don’t know Lucy. Lots of names are familiar to me, but I did not work in the South. My work primarily involved building the White Mainstream Christian and Jewish support base for the movement, both in terms of resources, and after 1962, political support for very broad legislation. I worked as Executive Director of the Minnesota Council on Religion and Race, and then did consulting work with the National Council of Churches and the National Catholic Conference on Interracial Justice, with another group the Southern Christian Leadership Council founded (that’s King’s outfit) called the National Conference on Religion and Race. The whole point was to engage mainstream clergy and laity in efforts to 1) support the general movement’s goals and 2) plug people with special skills or interests into the huge effort to pass real legislation. If the kids who were putting skin on the line in the demonstrations were to succeed, they had to have massive support for their goals from places that Congresscritters could not ignore, and my jobs were all about creating that backstop. The Job involved keeping very close track of what was going on in the South but also in DC, Twin City Neighborhoods, and in any place where opposition might form, keeping all the 34 religious denominations that paid me very well informed as to details, proposing things they might do that would move things forward, and being ready to deal with each crisis that came up. It wasn’t as dramatic as organizing demonstrations, but it was the necessary parallel pressure.

      Few people understand the power arrangements in Washington that prevented bringing forward any significant Civil Rights Legislation between the 1870’s and the 1960’s. From the 30’s it was possible to pass things in the House — we got anti-lynching legislation through twice in 36 and 37 for instance, but we could never get so much as a committee hearing in the Senate. The reason — The Southern Democrats held all the committee chairmanships, and they acted as a block to any legislation as a voting group. They were products of a one party system that rested on Jim Crow style segregation, and they had seniority and the chairmanships it guarenteed, and thus controlled the votes of both Republican and Democrat northern and western members because of their ability to make no action on any Social or Civil Rights matter the price for Northern and Western interests in things like farm legislation, water projects and the like. So before you could get movement on Civil Rights — you had to break that lock, and to that end educating just ordinary people who lived in small town and rural America to these realities so they would take a moral stand was an absolute necessity. If a rural member of congress suddenly finds he has 300 letters from Lutheran, Catholic, Methodist and Presbyterian church committees and pastors about — let’s say the Public Accomodations section of a Civil Rights Bill, all wanting the strong version of legislative language, and wanting to know how he will vote — you begin to break that lock on progress. Do it enough times, and they finally tell their Southern Buddies, sorry, Can’t be with you this time. To break that filibuster in 64 we had to get 67 Senate Votes — we got 68. But once we got Jim Crow laws off the books, made that kind of behavior illegal, only then could we begin the longer term work of dealing with attitudes.

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