Coordinated Anti-Democratic Vandalism in at Least 3 States

On Friday, former militia leader Mike Vanderboegh called for anti-Democratic vandalism across the country to protest the health care bill.

Vanderboegh posted the call for action Friday on his blog, “Sipsey Street Irregulars.” Referring to the health care reform bill as “Nancy Pelosi’s Intolerable Act,” he told followers to send a message to Democrats.

“We can break their windows,” he said. “Break them NOW. And if we do a proper job, if we break the windows of hundreds, thousands, of Democrat party headquarters across this country, we might just wake up enough of them to make defending ourselves at the muzzle of a rifle unnecessary.”

And, apparently in response, there were attacks in–at least–Wichita, KS, Tucson, AZ,  Rochester, NY, Niagara Falls, NY.  Vanderboegh has proudly claimed credit for the coordinated attacks.

Remember how, several weeks ago, Michael Isikoff rationalized away any concerns about someone flying a plane into a federal office building? One distinction he made is that white American terrorists–the Unabomber, the anthrax killer (!), the tax protestor–don’t coordinate with others who have the same enemy.

ok, just to weigh in on this—I think some of the comments miss what I take to be the fundamental distinction. The underpants bomber, for all his ineptitude, was equipped and dispatched by a foreign enemy—Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula—whose ultimate leader (bin Laden) has declared war on the United States and who has demonstrated his willingness and intent to inflict mass casualties on our civilian population. That makes underpants man a terrorist and had he been captured overseas, would have made himan enemy combatant—and why the Obama administration dispatches the U.S. military and Predator drones to destroy the people who sent him here. Similarly, the Fort Hood shooter may have been a disturbed “lone wolf” but he was in ideological alignment and in communication with a member of the same foreign enemy.That makes them both terrorists.

The Austin tax protestor, the anthrax scientist wacko, the Unabomber—all did heinous things that we can  describe any way we want—certainly what they did were terrorist acts— but they all remain a very different kettle of fish, which is why Mr. underpants man gets more attention that Austin tax protestor flying plane into building.

Now, to be fair, Isikoff also said that to qualify as a terrorist you had to set out to cause mass casualties (though of course the IRS protester failed only in execution on that front).

But as to coordination to serve a mutual enemy? We’re officially there now.

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94 replies
  1. Jim White says:

    This bozo actually has four people in different locations who can look at the letters he strings together on his blog page and then actually put them into action? Color me surprised. Are we sure there weren’t similar suggestions from folks like Limbaugh, Beck or Ericson over the airwaves? It’s much easier to believe these folks heard something and then took action…

        • qweryous says:

          And ew @ 4

          And then there was that big bad hacker, stealing card numbers by the millions and… paid by the FBI at the same time!

          These hackees are feeling better now knowing this:

          “Convicted TJX hacker Albert Gonzalez earned $75,000 a year working undercover for the U.S. Secret Service, informing on bank card thieves before he was arrested in 2008 for running his own multimillion-dollar card-hacking operation.” Via Raw Story, and the article is at Wired: LINK:
          http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/03/gonzalez-salary/

          This was a big hack:

          “TJX, the parent company of T.J. Maxx, Marshall’s, and other retailers, disclosed in a Securities and Exchange Commission filing last week that more than 45 million credit and debit card numbers may have been stolen from its IT systems over an 18-month period, making it the largest customer data breach on record.” Excerpt from LINK:
          http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/cybercrime/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198701551

          Ability to make proper selection of ‘informants’: in question.

          Ability to properly ‘run’ the ‘operation’ and ‘informant’: also in question.

      • whitewidow says:

        Ooh, you’re kinda cynical:)

        I’d say it’s time for some Republican “leaders” to be asked to Reject and Denounce.

        In other news, media going into tizzy about Biden saying “fuck”. Good thing he didn’t say blowjob. They’d be calling for impeachment.

      • KarenM says:

        OMG! You’re right! That’s probably what will unfold.

        It’s the FBI who’s usually able to make these things happen logistically.

      • captjjyossarian says:

        Reminds me of Sean Hannity’s friend… the white supermacist radio show host Hal Turner… who was on the FBI payroll for 5 years.

  2. WilliamOckham says:

    After all the crap that happen with the protesters in DC this weekend, can we all agree that Jimmy Carter was right back in September:

    “I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man, that he’s African-American,” Carter told “NBC Nightly News.”

  3. orionATL says:

    and of course the premier source of terrorists acts for 25 years in this country – the anti-abortion crusade.

    • jefferyk says:

      Honestly. There hasn’t been a leftist terrorist organization in the U.S. since the Weather Underground disbanded in the ’70s. Yet somehow right-wing terrorism isn’t considered terrorism.

      • dabear says:

        Napolitano did try when she first got to HLS and got blasted for even bringing it up. Everyone just seemed to ignore that she had to deal with the Minute Men in AZ.

      • aardvark says:

        I think the Southern Poverty Law Center would disagree with you. They have been tracking right-wing terrorist groups for some time now.

  4. BoxTurtle says:

    At the very least, this vanderidiot could be charged with incitement. It’ll be interesting to see what LOCAL law enforcement does, they’ll have it first.

    Will any of the locals have the guts to charge the throwers with domestic terrorism? If so, will any of them say something that will lead to charges against the terrorist leader vanderidiot?

    Watch for the feds to hide behind the first amendment, for both this and the hate speech incident at the capitol. Obama really fears standing up to the GOP and their stooges.

    O/T from prior thread: Yup, if we do a national id we can do national voter registration at the time the ID is issued. If they’re underage, it can take effect as soon as they turn 18 without any further action. That’ll put a stop to those silly ballot box challenges!

    Boxturtle (Obama seems to have no such problem standing up to Progressives)

  5. orionATL says:

    isikoff is quoted:

    “…Isikoff also said that to qualify as a terrorist you had to set out to cause mass casualties…’

    isikoff’s is a silly distinction.

    a few lynchings a year did the trick for nearly a 100 years.

    the two men who shot over a dozen people in the d.c. area a decade ago terrorized that area for weeks, more so than any airplane terrorists as ever terrorized american airline passengers.

    in fact, americans have not been terrorized by any airplane bombings attempted, save the bombing of the world trade center and that only for a few months.

    if mass deaths was a criterion (40,000+ per year), no one would drive to work and back. but they do; and it is not a criterion.

  6. Leen says:

    ew more for your chuck and huck piece
    http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/03/23/senators_pressure_obama_on_iran_sanctions

    There was some strong pushback at Monday night’s AIPAC gala against the Obama administration’s call for further patience in waiting for the U.N. Security Council to enact a fourth round of sanctions on Iran. But it didn’t come from the Israeli side or the lobbying group itself: it came from two senior U.S. senators.

    Senate leadership member Charles Schumer, D-NY, and moderate Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-SC, both passionately pledged to push this week for action on the Iran sanctions legislation currently awaiting a House-Senate conference. They directly contradicted Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s call for more time to allow the U.N. process to play out, a plea she made in remarks to the same group earlier in the day.

    Comparing a delay in confronting Iran’s nuclear program with the WWII-era appeasement of Adolf Hitler, Schumer said there was no choice but to move forward with new Iran sanctions now.

    “Diplomatic efforts have failed. We are too close (to a nuclear Iran) to simply continue those efforts,” said Schumer. “The U.S. must hit Iran first, on our own, with unilateral sanctions, no matter what the other nations of the world do. And we cannot wait, we must push those sanctions now … we cannot afford to wait for Russia or China.”

  7. ubetchaiam says:

    I thought there were laws aginst ‘incitement to riot’; How come Mike Vanderboegh isn’t being prosecuted?

  8. NorskeFlamethrower says:

    AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

    Citizen emptywheel and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

    This is a very important post, Citizen emptywheel, but I’m afraid that its real import may be lost on a lot of Firepups, many of whom have been talkin’ about splittin’ off and fightin’ both the fascist regulars in the Republican Party and the “liberal” and “moderate” Democrats. While Sister Hamsher continues the fight to keep real healthcare reform alive in the legislative process and, hopefully, make the distinction between health insurance reform and health system change portable into this coming election and beyond, some in the “progressive” community are calling for a suicidal split with the Democratic Party which will, of course only splinter and marginalize the organized democratic forces and tip the balance of power to the lunatic, anti-democratic fascists. To provide food for thought aboput this possibility I would like to offer a quick summary of a similar historical moment…one that I offered just before Obama’s signing ceremony.

    What is happening now is remiondful of Weimar Germany 1931-33, when the country was split politically 1/3-1/3-1/3 and the “liberal” democrats and non-fascists were too petrified of political violence and threats of violence to muster enough muscle from the institutions of power to get anything done or beat back the anti-democratic forces at war in the streets.

    Today I am very worried that even as they have been paid off and insulated from the wrath of a wounded populace, the oligarchy in the form of the insurance cartel and the drug industry has not thrown in entirely behind ObamaRahma and this is exactly what happened in Germany. The forces of the upper social order waited out of the line of fire until the thugs and goons demolished the democratic forces in the streets. The politics of this fight over healthcare have not played out yet, folks, and the oligarchy waits patiently behind the scenes, to see if they can have the entire cake and eat it too.

    So think, comrads, of the people for whom you want to speak and act before you contribute to actions that can enable the very threat you want so desparately to beat back.

    KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, WAR IS NOT A GAME AND THIS IS WAR!!

    • nonplussed says:

      Ain’t goon’a happen, Norske. For unlike those unarmed and peace loving Fenestræ, we will demonstrate that talk is cheap.

    • hotdog says:

      No way. Getting into bed with your abuser is not the way to reform. The teabaggers and lunatics will make a scene, but they’re only tools of the ruling class (read one party system). Scare doesn’t work on me anymore. What’s the worst the next neocon can do? Start a war with Iran? Uh oh.

    • hotflashcarol says:

      the oligarchy waits patiently behind the scenes, to see if they can have the entire cake and eat it too.

      What are they waiting for? Aren’t they already doing this? I don’t see how you acknowledge the existence of the oligarchy on the one hand and on the other hand, suggest that we all stick with the Democratic Party. How much more evidence do you need that the oligarchy will only allow us a narrow range of so-called progressives in national office? I think sticking with the Democratic Party is what’s suicidal.

    • hiro8 says:

      “The forces of the upper social order waited out of the line of fire until the thugs and goons demolished the democratic forces in the streets.”

      spit at, and call a congressman the n word…nothing. Beat on and arrest the anti war,PEACEFUL protesters .

      • hotdog says:

        You forgot – Show up at a political rally with a gun strapped to your hip, strut around like a turkey; Show up with a tee shirt or a sign, get “escorted” out in an arm-lock.

        • anotherpower says:

          Except that the guy with the gun strapped top his hip was actually an African-American police officer. The media purposely showed a close-up of the gun, but did not back away to show the whole person. It was later shown on the camera of another news org and the CNN had to apologize, but they did not make a show of the apology. Every once in a while we exaggerate our side to make it look extra juicy.

        • bobschacht says:

          Well, I guess that nullifies the “Pen is mightier than the sword” meme– or does it? I think it shows that they’re more afraid of words than guns.

          Bob in AZ

    • thefutureisnow says:

      With the greatest respect:
      I know I’m a new kid on the block here and also know, as a result, that what I’m about to say may not “fit” with the underlying FDL philosophy. If that’s the case, then indeed, I have some decisions to make.
      So far, most of the stuff I’ve read here I not only agree with, but feel an incredible appreciation for, esp among folk who seem to be strongly committed to refusing to go the superficiality route, even if it means running counter to the “herd” mentality we’ve been seeing so much of lately.

      Your post…I’ve read other like it, have read headlines like it. Not a lot, but enough to be noticeable.
      What I refer to is the reference to “war.” Or of being a “fighter.” (Or of even taking delight in rubbing someone’s nose in it when they’re finally “proven” wrong.) As if we are “fighting” a “war” against…well, I guess it boils down to whomever doesn’t agree with you. Or me. or FDL.

      Feedback: A warmonger is a warmonger is a warmonger, no matter the situation. If I declare “war” on the Dems or Obama or pundits or insurance companies or…or…or…well, the energy is the same as declaring “war” on any other person, institution, or country. It’s the same “vibe.” Same energy signature. And with that signature, you, me, we continue to create…the very thing we say we’ve had enough of.
      I’ll admit: this may be too much of a spiritual “take” for some, most, maybe even all other FDL readers, writers, etc. If so, I’ll accept and move on.
      I would just ask, as kindly, compassionately, directly as I can: Please consider the words you choose and ask yourself: Do you want to keep the “war” meme going? The “warrior/fighter” meme going?
      Do you want to keep it going?
      There are ways to stand firm, direct, powerful, claiming truth without the need to lash out.
      And I guarantee, the results are most times more remarkable than one can imagine.
      Thanks for reading. And considering. Truly.

      • transparait says:

        “There are ways to stand firm, direct, powerful, claiming truth without the need to lash out.
        And I guarantee, the results are most times more remarkable than one can imagine.”

        For myself, I simply don’t believe what you wrote here. My experience is that if you ‘talk nice’, you get jack. Doing so only leads to irrelevence, look at the Progressive Caucus and the ‘Pro Choice’ Caucus – they’re irrelevent. I’m entirely comfortable with ‘this war meme’, and with being called a war monger by people who believe as you do.

        : )

    • Mason says:

      While Sister Hamsher continues the fight to keep real healthcare reform alive in the legislative process and, hopefully, make the distinction between health insurance reform and health system change portable into this coming election and beyond, some in the “progressive” community are calling for a suicidal split with the Democratic Party which will, of course only splinter and marginalize the organized democratic forces and tip the balance of power to the lunatic, anti-democratic fascists.

      Greetings, Citizen Norske.

      Seems to me Robert Rubin is the leader of the lunatic, anti-democratic fascists and they are firmly in control of Obama, who continues to do their bidding. The Democratic Party also is dead and the cause of death identified in the autopsy report is listed as “corrupted by money.” The so-called health care reform effort was just a clever year long deception to conceal passage of the Insurance Company Bailout Act of 2010.

      Obama declared war against all liberals and progressives after he was elected and we have only three choices.

      1. Call ourselves Independents;

      2. Vote Republican just to spite Democrats;

      3. Join an existing party like the Green Party;

      4. Start a new party; or

      5. Drop out and don’t vote.

      Three and four are the only choices that work for me and I prefer a fresh start, so I’ve come up with a 50 plank platform and a name, the Rose Party.

      Most folks like the platform, minus references to Gaia, so I went with that. Some folks are struggling with the name because . . . well, it sounds too wimpy.

      Anyone who impaled their finger upon a thorn should know better, right?

      We have time to put it together and, according to the polls, we have a majority of the people in this country supporting some of our planks, like ending the wars, bringing the troops home, and enacting single payer healthcare. The center has moved considerably to the left, so much so that many folks would be startled to discover that they are liberals, progressives, and even socialists according to the views they hold.

      So, I ask you and everyone else the following questions:

      If I am not for myself, who will be for me?

      If I am not for others, who am I?

      If not now, when?

      • Hmmm says:

        If I am not effective, am I responsible in my efforts for others?

        How long should others suffer so that I can be pure?

        • Mason says:

          The sage, Rabbi Hillel, propounded those three philosophical questions to his students around 2100 years ago and they have nothing to do with the two irrelevant snarky questions you asked.

          The obvious answers to your questions are in reverse order: No one is capable of being pure and do the best you can.

          Rabbi Hillel’s questions force the student to contemplate what sets them apart from others, their purpose in life relative to others, and the importance of taking action.

          Sorry, but you get an F in Rabbi Hillel’s Philosophy course.

          Now why don’t you get serious and give it another try.

          It’s called soul searching.

          And, no. You don’t have to post your answer.

          • Hmmm says:

            My questions were sincere, they are what I ask myself, and I am very serious. I know about Rabbi Hillel’s questions and don’t disrespect them in the slightest.

              • Mason says:

                Yes, but how do you know beforehand that your actions will have no consequence?

                And what about the butterfly effect?

                I guess you have to know yourself.

                Evidently, you do.

                Please accept my apology.

                • Hmmm says:

                  Please describe a mechanism by which your plan of action is likely to achieve a meaningful effect within a reasonable amount of time without causing the really rather significant problems I’ve pointed out above @76 and @82. The butterfly effect is a lovely concept, but unlikely to prevent them. I would love to be able to believe that your way could work, truly, but the rational mind finds no traction there and does find traction in using the mechanisms that are known to exist. Disillusionment in the glacial pace of change is wholly understandable, but decamping into fantasy is escapism, not something we can afford to indulge if we care about what actually happens to people and the cost of that indulgence is to reduce the number of hands supporting the only wall that keeps back the sea. The Bush years — the most awful period in modern American (probably modern world) history — were a direct consequence of the Nader candidacy. Preventing the recurrence of that is what we are talking about, nothing less.

          • bobschacht says:

            The sage, Rabbi Hillel, propounded those three philosophical questions to his students around 2100 years ago

            Three? I only see two.

            I am interested. Link?

            Bob in AZ

  9. Splicer says:

    Perhaps the Left should have a coordinated effort to educate people like Mr. Isikoff on something we call reality. For all his parsing and the governments obfuscation, Timothy McVeigh was part of a group that planned that attack and others like it. That qualifies as a terrorist threat in my book.

  10. dabear says:

    Gifford’s office is only a couple miles from my house. Scary thing is that during her town hall back in the summer, some AZ gunslinger dropped a fire arm in the parking lot. Hey, I don’t care for her either, but she might need some more protection.

    • hotflashcarol says:

      How ironic that being a sellout Blue Dog 99% of the time still hasn’t saved her from the wrath of the rednecks. I’m moving away from Tucson in two weeks — I’ll miss a lot of things but others … well, not so much.

  11. mzchief says:

    One more great way to de-leveage the banksters and their subsidiaries, the insurers, and those they pay to act out against the public interest is to move our money into very local, community-run institutions that we control such as credit unions and building societies.

    So, let’s talk some numbers…

    Total $s moved out of big banks so far: $959,707 (counter at htpp://www.anewwayforward.org).

    Let’s double that figure folks!!

    Divestment tips (http://www.anewwayforward.org/howtobreakup) … if you did it to end racial segregation in Africa, now you can do it to end class segregation for yourself in the US of A!

    Want more? Go to “How To Start Your Own Bank” (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/19/how-to-start-your-own-ban_n_497261.html) as “Generally banks need about $12 to 20 million in capital to get started. Many community banks are able to raise that money locally.”

    Catch up with more new, ideas and stats at the “Move Your Money” aggregator page at HuffPo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/move-your-money ; cross-posts with MoveYourMoney.Info )

    Events (http://www.anewwayforward.org/events):

    National General Strike – October 29, 2010
    Friday, October 29, 2010 – 03:01 – Saturday, October 30, 2010 – 03:01
    Everywhere, USA

  12. alank says:

    It’s like Cindy Crosby getting away with murder on the ice, no fine, no suspension, ever.

    If he were a Muslim, he’d been frogmarched and renditioned, post haste.

  13. temptingfate says:

    So we have laws on the books that say that terrorism is as simple as threatening to destroy property and the laws have been used when the WTO has come to visit our cities. The same laws have been applied when Republicans have their own quaint get togethers. Or when PETA folks, Quakers or even vegetarians have their insidious meetings but something as public as this over threat is getting a pass. Clearly justice is not blind.

  14. puravida says:

    I’m so puzzled over the right-wingers chicken little response to this bill. My guess is that their lives will change very little, if at all, as a result of HCR. So why such a visceral response?

    Racism and bigotry explain the unhinged right’s hatred of Obama, but wouldn’t the violent reaction happen with any Democratic President, regardless of color?

    I sometimes wonder whether the Coulters, Hannitys, Malkins, Becks, and O’Reillys simply play characters on their shows, but don’t actually believe the garbage (and calls to violence) they spew on the airwaves. I know that’s hopelessly naive, but I’d like to believe we live in a rational world and that there is some kind of explanation for what’s happening in our county today.

    Like the unhinged, I fear for our country, too. But for entirely different reasons.

    • NorskeFlamethrower says:

      Citizen puravida:

      “I am so puzzled over the right wingers chicken little response to this bill.”

      It’s only partially “Chicken Little”, as Citizen emptywheel has pointed out, there is active terror bein’ perpetrated on well-chosen, visable targets of elected democratic (lower case) representatives. Organized terrorism from America’s fascists goes back at least to the beginnin’ of the KKK and,of course, continued throughout the 20th century and culminated in the Oklahoma City bombing and the muders of abortion providers. At the time of Oklahoma City and the anti-abortion murders, like this one, there were fascist politicians who stood on the floor of the House of Representatives and justified and made appologies for the muderous acts.

      The rhetoric is only the smoke in front of the main attack which has already begun. What the fascists are tryin to provoke is, of course, a response in kind which will magnify their actions and distort their strength by exactly the weight of the response to it. This war from the fascists started long ago and we must be very careful that we stay in ranks and force our democratic institutions to deal with it…maybe there is a reason Obama hasn’t tried to do away with the Patriot Act, but whatever, we must force our government to use the tools the fascists gave us to destroy them once and for all time.

      • puravida says:

        “…we must force our government to use the tools the fascists gave us to destroy them once and for all time.”

        Amen

  15. Frank33 says:

    In case anyone missed this, DKos people cannot find this location.

    emptywheel rocks but isn’t her site still up? (6+ / 0-)
    Damn, I just cked, I guess I’m out of the loop there, she hasn’t posted there since Dec 07 and nothing since Mar 08.
    Damn shame, The Next Hurrah was a good low key place with great analysis
    by buddabelly on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 06:55:00 AM PDT

    EW hasn’t posted in 2 years?
    Does anyone know where she’s blogging?
    by dclawyer06 on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 07:26:59 AM PDT

    She posts a lot at FDL
    by nandssmith on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 07:48:30 AM PDT

    • PJEvans says:

      Tells you how much effort they actually put into following her.
      There wasn’t any secret about moving out; ew was running more-or-less independently for a lot of that time (emptywheel.blogspot).

  16. jedimsnbcko19 says:

    some of the hate on right is driven by race

    a lot of it is driven by the effects of NAFTA, the CORPORATE Elites, the Ayn Rand philosphy of Reagan, they thought people like Regan cared about them, well Reagan did not care about these people. Karl Rove use and all but calls them ignorants fools.

    now when these young men and women look around at their lives, and predict the future of their kids lives being worse than theirs, they are now strking out at the wrong enemy.

    these people need to attack the RUSH LIMBAUGHs, GOLD MAN SACHS, BUSH 1 and Bush 2, these are the people that destroyed them and their kids.

    the first rule of war, know thy enemy, they are flunking this one big time,

    attacking Dems want bring back your jobs from China, you may want to attack the people who own the companies and sent your jobs to China, and yes they vote Republican

    the funny thing is Obama, Rahm, the phony dems are doing the same thing to the Dem Base, Obama and others like Glenn Greenwald said are screwing the Dem Base.

    Reagan was no HERO! these people need to get this thru their thick skulls

    20% un-employment and rising will cause people to lose it

    • NorskeFlamethrower says:

      Citizen RoyalOak:

      No Citizen, Isikoff was just a tool of the forces of fascism that have been workin’ within the system for over a hundred years to destablize and overwhelm the majority of people who still believe in “democracy” and the people’s ability to make decisions for themselves.

  17. Bluetoe2 says:

    Isikoff doesn’t want to piss off the right wing sociopaths cause he knows they’ll put one in his brain pan.

  18. Bluetoe2 says:

    It’s time to start thinking about either sending these fascists to Gitmo or deporting them.

  19. gallileo71 says:

    hmmm… sounds like Krystalnacht revisited. The political right’s revealing it’s Third Reich-ian/Nazi party anti-black anti-jewish anti-gay sentiments more and more every day. I have relatives that died fight those idiots in the Great War–I guess anyone who fought against Hitler in WWII are all just going down in history as a bunch of “un-American liberals” according to the Rush Limbaughs and Bill O’reilly’s of our country now.

  20. dosido says:

    I wish these idiots would learn some gaddamn history.

    Intolerable Acts? That was being taxed to pay for, oh what was it now? oh yeah, King George’s little wars in Europe. Taxes to raise money for stuff that did not benefit the colonies.

    makes my head hurt to listen to idiots torture history.

  21. blink says:

    As I see it, this and future violence from the wingnuts is the fault of the “progressive” information gatekeepers like FDL. It could have been us engaging in non-violent direct action/civil disobedience campaigns but that opportunity has passed. The electing of Obama and more Dems was your form of protest. These know-nothing wingnuts occupy that protest space now and those who counseled a LOTE vote for Obama and more Democrats have only themselves to blame for that.

      • blink says:

        Not just FDL, anyone with a voice that counseled a LOTE vote for Democrats. It really is as plain as the nose on our collective face. You can’t continue to attempt to change things by further enabling a completely corrupt party which is entrenched in a completely corrupt system. Which is it then? “Liberal” information gate-keepers made a mistake that they take responsibility for and will not make again or they are simply beyond stupid and meet Einsteins definition of insanity?

        The ineffectual netroots needs to take responsibility for what has happened and what is going to happen. Otherwise they lose all credibility.

        • bmaz says:

          Quite frankly, I have no idea in the world what you are talking about. first off, what the hell is a “LOTE vote? And this

          “Liberal” information gate-keepers made a mistake that they take responsibility for and will not make again or they are simply beyond stupid and meet Einsteins definition of insanity?

          comes off as barking at the moon. Do you have a specific complaint or just aimless ranting that everything is the fault of blogs like FDL? We here put in an incredible amount of time energy and large chunks of money to try to make government better; what are you doing?

          • blink says:

            LOTE = Lesser Of Two Evils

            If I put an incredible amount of wishing and hoping energy into trying to change water into wine should I be applauded? My intentions are good right?

            You won’t be able to understand the compliant until you accept and internalize the fact that you will never affect positive change by enabling a completely corrupt party, operating in a completely corrupt system which they own. My complaint is that FDL and other “liberal” information gatekeepers are leading all of us in the wrong direction and have been for some time. They need to own up to this fact if they want to maintain what little remaining credibility they have.

            • bmaz says:

              If you do not like it here, go start your own blog; neither I, Marcy, nor anybody else at FDL need to apologize or “own up” to diddly shit, we are proud of what we do.

              • blink says:

                Proud of making the same mistakes over and over again and counseling others to do likewise? Seriously? Wow. I came here because I thought that FDL’ers were smarter than Kos Kids. They are proud of what they do too.

                • bmaz says:

                  Yeah, well exactly what “mistakes” has this blog made? You are pitching a bunch of pablum. Like I said earlier, just barking at the moon.

        • JTMinIA says:

          >> “It really is as plain as the nose on our collective face.”

          While I find most of what you write to be crazed rambling, this one quote stood out as explaining a lot.

          For many years, whenever my wife would, seemingly out-of-blue, ask me to stop picking my nose, I always had to stifle to urge to deny said action (which I swear I wasn’t doing) on the grounds of not wishing to appear schizophrenic. You see, while (as I just told you) I could swear that I wasn’t doing of what she accused me, I always had to admit (at least, to myself) that she is, in general, more grounded in reality than I am, so, if she says that she saw a finger up my nose, then, maybe – just maybe – it was true.

          Now I know that she and I were *both* right. She was correct that a finger was up my nose and I was correct that I wasn’t doing it. I now know that we all – at least, those of us here at FDL – share one nose. It’s that protuberance on our “collective face,” as you say.

          While I appreciate your explaining this to me, I must now make a request: please stop picking the nose on our collective face. At a minimum, please stop doing it when my wife can see you doing it. I’m sick of being blamed for your rhinotillexomania.

          Oh, and clean your keyboard, too.

      • PJEvans says:

        Someone has been reading the handful of anti-Hamsher and FDL posts over at the Great Orange Satan. The one that Frank33 was quoting comments from is getting some remarks about its quality – there’s a lot of insults from the writer, who seems to not have much clue.

  22. PJEvans says:

    There have certainly been more people around lately blaming the people on blogs – especially FDL – for ‘not doing enough’ or ‘not doing it right’ – most of whom I don’t recall ever seeing before.

    I have to assume they’re concern trolls.

  23. Hmmm says:

    The trouble with the argument against picking the lesser of two evils in this situation is that there are only two choices and while both are regrettable, they are nonetheless distinguishable, and one of them truly is a lesser evil than the other one. Purity is not an available option unless you’re willing to hand the whole thing over to the more evil team for a period of many, perhaps many many, years while a third party gestates and attempts to start winning elections. The Legislative and Executive branches are the only tools the citizenry has to influence what the USG does, and the only two categories of creature found in either place in sufficient numbers to affect anything at all within the next few years are Republicans and Democrats. By electing more and better Democrats, and only by doing so, we have some limited opportunity to influence what happens within the relatively near term. Without doubt, the Democratic Party is corrupt and in the very best case is only partially susceptible to our influence, however if actual effectiveness in improving significant numbers of peoples’ lives is the goal, then there is no point in indulging in energy-diverting disillusionment and purity campaigns and oh-so-cathartic denunciations, because the fact is that no other path known to be even remotely as effective exists, nor is likely to exist within the time period in which we need that actual improvement to occur.

      • Hmmm says:

        You know he’s doing that, and I know he’s doing that, but I’m not sure he knows he’s doing that.

      • Sara says:

        We suffered eight years of that sort of unsophisticated political thinking — given the small “Oh-so-pure” fraction in 2000 who voted for Ralph Nader. It is just another version of some Communist Suicidal thinking, you vote for your class enemy so that things will get worse, and that will lay the grounds for revolution. Like Hell.

    • bobschacht says:

      I bit on the parody. I actually went over to http://www.sarahpac.com to check and see if the nuclear map was actually there. It wasn’t, but that doesn’t mean that it won’t be. For now, I take the map as a parody. I also checked Sarah Palin’s facebook page. The map with the gun sight icons was there, but no nukes. The casual reader who doesn’t check references might actually think that the nukes map was on Palin’s web PAC page.

      Palin is a shallow thinker. She doesn’t understand that her casual use of gun metaphors (“reload,” gunsight icons) might be taken literally by some people. It is this sort of language that motivated Timothy McVeigh and his friends. Either that, or she is knowingly disingenuous, and a lawsuit ought to be filed against her for incitement.

      BTW, Rachel Maddow today was using various cognates of “incitement” on her show, but she used forms such as “inciteful”? or some such that could be misunderstood for “insightful”. I wish she would be more careful about that.

      Bob in AZ

  24. Mason says:

    By the sheer force of my will in service to my focused intent, I will make this happen because this is who and what I am.

    Just watch . . .

    Pleasant dreams, my friend.

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