Dylan Ratigan, Law Professors and I All Agree: Obama Needs to Explain or End Manning’s Treatment

On Friday, Dylan Ratigan and I had a podcast chat about the treatment of Bradley Manning. Among other things, we talked about the “Constitutional Law Professor” President’s rather bizarre response when DOD told him it was standard procedure to strip an Army man of his clothes because of a trumped up claim that his underwear was a terrible threat to him.

DYLAN: And what does that say to you about our President that he endorses such a ridiculous point of view?

MARCY: I mean for starters it says he’s giving the military way too much leeway. They said, “Well, this is standard operating procedure.” And as I pointed out today in my blog, what they’re doing to Manning, the forced nudity, goes right back to Gitmo and goes right back to the treatment they used with Abu Zubaydah. So him giving — he came in to office and on day 2 said, “We’re going to close Gitmo. We’re going to end these abusive techniques,” and yet when DOD came to him and said, well, you know, it’s all standard procedure to take away a man’s underwear. The President just said, “Oh, okay.”

That’s one of the things a bunch of (real, active) law professors had to say in their letter calling on Obama to explain or end the treatment of Bradley Manning.

The Administration has provided no evidence that Manning’s treatment reflects a concern for his own safety or that of other inmates. Unless and until it does so, there is only one reasonable inference: this pattern of degrading treatment aims either to deter future whistleblowers, or to force Manning to implicate Wikileaks founder Julian Assange in a conspiracy, or both.

If Manning is guilty of a crime, let him be tried, convicted, and punished according to law. But his treatment must be consistent with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. There is no excuse for his degrading and inhumane pre-trial punishment. As the State Department’s PJ Crowly put it recently, they are “counterproductive and stupid.” And yet Crowley has now been forced to resign for speaking the plain truth.

The Wikileaks disclosures have touched every corner of the world. Now the whole world watches America and observes what it does; not what it says.

President Obama was once a professor of constitutional law, and entered the national stage as an eloquent moral leader. The question now, however, is whether his conduct as Commander in Chief meets fundamental standards of decency. He should not merely assert that Manning’s confinement is “appropriate and meet[s] our basic standards,” as he did recently. He should require the Pentagon publicly to document the grounds for its extraordinary actions –and immediately end those which cannot withstand the light of day.

Obama cannot be a leader on human rights by refusing to challenge a military that, for years, used forced nudity like they’re using with Manning as part of systemic abuse of alleged terrorists.

But that’s what he has been doing.

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  1. ffein says:

    I wrote to Carl Levin and got this response:

    Thank you for contacting me about the treatment and living conditions of Army Private First Class Bradley Manning while in confinement at Marine Corps Base Quantico. I appreciate hearing your thoughts on this matter.

    I have confidence in the fairness of our military justice system and the core values that support it. Any service member accused of a crime is entitled to representation by an attorney to ensure that they are afforded all of their legal rights, including the presumption of innocence until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Just like any other American, service members also are entitled to humane treatment while confined. The Defense Department has stated on numerous occasions that Private Manning’s treatment and living conditions are exactly the same as those afforded other pretrial detainees with his status. This includes access to his attorney, medical care, visitors, telephone calls and proper nutrition.

    As the Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, I will continue to monitor this situation. Thank you again for contacting me.

    And this response from Debbie Stabenow:

    Thank you for contacting me about WikiLeaks. I understand your concerns.

    As you know, the WikiLeaks website recently disclosed classified information from the State Department and the Department of Defense. While I support free speech, I am deeply concerned about the effects this information will have on the safety of American troops and our diplomatic efforts abroad. There is currently no related legislation pending in the Senate, but if this issue should come before me for a vote, I will keep your views in mind.

    Thank you again for contacting me. Please continue to keep me informed about issues of concern to you and your family.

    Pathetic.

    • prostratedragon says:

      My.

      Thank you for trying, anyway. And at least those two are now fecklessly on the record.

    • bobthecat says:

      I did not even get an answer. I emailed my representatives three questions –

      1. What is your position on torture?

      2. What is your opinion about the treatment of Pfc. Bradley Manning, currently confined in a Marine Corps brig in Quantico, Va.?

      3. Will you support Congressman Dennis Kucinich’s request to visit Bradley Manning in Quantico? His request was made more than a month ago.

      The silence has been deafening.

      • ffein says:

        I wrote to Obama too, but I haven’t heard back. I did get an email from him a couple of days ago, tho, thanking me for writing to him about the situation in Egypt. A topic I didn’t write to anybody about. Often the form letters I get from representatives don’t relate at all to my concerns, or so much time goes by that I’ve forgotten that I wrote to them! So…perhaps you’ll still get a response. But it might not be to your questions!

  2. BoxTurtle says:

    Obama cannot be a leader on human rights

    I don’t think America has been considered a “leader” in human rights since Clinton. Maybe since Carter.

    Shorter Levin: I ain’t touching this and you can’t make me.

    Shorter Stabnow: You’re a DFH. Shut up and leave me alone.

    Boxturtle (Yes, know it’s Stabenow. But the typo above seemed to read better somehow)

  3. DWBartoo says:

    By no stretch of “evidence”, fact or sustained fantasy, may Barack Obama be properly considered “a leader on human rights”.

    I realize that you seek to appeal to his better angels, EW, yet I suspect that Obama lacks the sweep of imagination AND courage, the depth of compassion, and the breath of honest understanding to rise to his responsibility, to the moral necessity of consequent self-hood that you, Dylan, and the good professors have asked of him.

    That he and his advisers are clearly hunkered down into this administration’s characteristic “position” of a “serene superiority above the fray”, which looks like nothing other than obsequieous allegience to the status quo, the kind of “positional philosophy” one might imagine a middle-manager of a grocery chain would develop and pursue. Such “philosophy”, when primarily self-centered, does not suggest much likelihood of genuine leadership, the willing and thoughtful daring to scout new “territory” and return to other to say, “Look at what I have discovered or understood, perhaps it is something that is worthy of your thoughts and considerations, as well? Maybe we must dare to change?”

    I sincerely hope that you and others may reach this man’s, this President’s, heart and mind … if he is not, already, too far “invested” in another “view” of “life”, of success, and of power.

    DW

    • Synoia says:

      this administration’s characteristic “position” of a “serene superiority above the fray”

      How would that position be achieved?
      a) Would one be holding one’s ankles?
      b) Or would one be on one’s knees?
      c) Both? (need diagram to see how this is achieved)

      • DWBartoo says:

        It may be, Synoia, that Obama’s true hero is not Reagan, but rather Augustus. Such a position as Obama desires to hold, very far above the tumultous and uncertain “fray” of mere hoi paloi, is one held only by those elevated, by their peers, to godhood.

        Especially, if enough of the astute, those banking on doing “God’s work”, should deem Barack Obama to be the savior of the true “interests” of the republic and the vital and necessary privileges of the most highly ranked … those who are, by all that is virtuous, honorable, and profitable, above and beyond the rule of law.

        But where is Obama’s true Livia, that special one who plays that fateful role of insiring world-shaking “ambition”, now that Rahm has roamed?

        DW

        • ottogrendel says:

          “Such a position as Obama desires to hold, very far above the tumultous and uncertain “fray” of mere hoi paloi, is one held only by those elevated, by their peers, to godhood.”

          Obama has one-upped W. on the executive’s status above the law, a note-worthy feat.

  4. lsls says:

    On CNN just now, the female talking head interviewed a psychiatrist from California regarding Manning’s treatment…she said he is not being treated badly now..doesn’t sleep naked, and spends time with other prisoners and what’s the big deal and what do you want..the psychiatrist said, of course, that the treatment he had received is known cause one to become suicidal and is unconstitutional and qualifies as torture internationally…then the witch said that he’s being treated the same as other people accused of things and is considered by many as a traitor and so what should be done, i.e., should he receive different treatement from other accused prisoners?…the psychiatrist said that he has been accused by not convicted of anything…and then, as a last word in response to that, the witch acidly quipped, “well, the military would beg to differ”.

    I don’t have a tivo, and I am just furious that she responded this way….I nearly threw my coffee at the teevee. Shame on CNN!!!!!

    LS

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      I’d beg to differ whether the “witch” could call herself a reporter. The military takes its cues here from the DoD top brass, from Gates and his chief counsel, from the DoJ and the White House, which means Daley and Obama.

      Bradley is getting precisely the treatment those policymakers want to hand out. It appears to be unique, to be inhumane or tortuous, and specifically intended to achieve some prosecutorial objective that merely holding Manning in a standard prison cell with three squares a day, a head and a toothbrush, and ready, private access to his defense counsel somehow won’t achieve.

      It’s Gitmo, not even Gitmo light, in Quantico, VA. And it sure seems bloody illegal, however much Barack Obama wants to institutionalizing it so he can pretend it’s not.

      • lsls says:

        I totally agree with everything you wrote. Re: The witch..Her last little zing at the end seemed to pop out of her own mouth. She’s nothing more than a mouthpiece reading a teleprompter with a script prepared to get that side of this sad situation out to influence public opinion….still, she should have STFU or refused to say it…go figure. It is irresponsible.

        The pressure on these idiots is definitely effective.

      • lsls says:

        She has shoulder-length brownish hair and was on right before Malveaux at the time I wrote the first comment. I don’t know her name.

    • ottogrendel says:

      “then the witch said that he’s being treated the same as other people accused of things and is considered by many as a traitor . . .”

      To me, this is the sinister part: The cultural acceptance of untried guilt simply as a result of accusation and detention, and the necessary and unquestioned punishment that should ensue without recourse to law. Control and punishment outside the rule of law is not the exclusive domain of US political “leaders.” It is a hallmark expression of US culture. After all, where did the Bushs and Rumsfelds and Obamas and Gates’ come from, another planet?

      • eCAHNomics says:

        We usually get a troll or two when this is the subject of the thread who find nothing wrong with Manning’s treatment & everything wrong with what Manning allegedly did. You are right that it has become completely acceptable and that is sinister.

        The slippery slope started with the construction of supermax prisons that I’ve thought were inhuman from the start, but you didn’t hear a peep out of anyone about those, and still don’t.

        • onitgoes says:

          Agree with you re the slippery slope w/the supermax prisons. well the USG has been pushing the meme that purported “criminals” deserve the worst. The notion about “paying your debt to society” – which kinda/sorta used to be the notion about most imprisonment – has been gradually morphed into: these sub-human scum deserve nothing but inhumane treatment.

          You are connecting some dots, which I’ve recognized over the years, but it’s not been much – if at all – written about.

          Of course, the prison industry in the US is increasingly privatized and owned by wealthy Elites, so connect those “dots.” Plus the prison guard unions, where they exist, usually lavishly fund Republican candidates in elections.

          • eCAHNomics says:

            The notion about “paying your debt to society”

            Not only has that notion been completely abandoned, so has the notion of of prisons being ‘correctional’ facilities where inmates can learn skills that can replace the economic need to commit crimes if they ever do get released.

            • onitgoes says:

              Yes exactly. It’s heinous and really about as stupid as it can get. I’ve ranted about this on other threads bc rightwingers love nothing more than to be punitive, judgemental & unfeeling. OFG is correct in a lot that he’s said in this thread.

              But it’s so stupid bc what ends up happening is that prisons just create criminals who endlessly recycle thru the prison system – costing society more & more money endlessly. Now there’s a huge group of very aged “seniors” in prison, who society is paying for at a high cost to keep incarcerated. Many are ill and enfeebled. Yet Republicans, who voted in draconian incarceration laws – such as 3 Strikes in CA – have no *interest* in actually paying for this via fair taxes.

              Republicans equally go “nuts” when one mentions rehad or training or other such worthwhile ventures for prisoners – in order to enable them to get off the cycle of crime and go back into society. Well of course, THAT’s because, right now, the prison “industry” is one great big giant SLAVE labor system, with imprisoned slaves for life.

              Yet the corporations who *make big buck$$$* out of this slave labor in no way *pay* into the system… yet again, it’s YOU & ME, the US taxpayer, who’s on the hook to pay for this expensive system, which – surprise surprise – inures to the benefit of the upper 2%.

              I’ll get off my soapbox now, but this is one of big fat burrs in my craw that I can rant about endlessly.

              • eCAHNomics says:

                Well, we can always remind trolls that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the U.S., mainly thru prison recruiting. That tends to blow their minds.

                Of course, they would take the wrong lesson from that: that means no one who converts to Islam should ever be released.

                • onitgoes says:

                  Yeah… that’s real tricky territory, and I wouldn’t tell rightwingers that bit of news. Ask Mumia al Jabar…

                • earlofhuntingdon says:

                  It’s rate of growth is likely to increase as poverty grows and seeps and rushes into places it’s never been before. The Repubs are so medieval; they keep yelling for Crusades. In reality, those didn’t work out well for anyone, not the Muslims, not the Jews, not the peasants or most of the nobles.

                  A few nobles and a few in the church did pretty well, though. They were a pleasant martial distraction for lots of noble younger sons who might have caused problems for their dads or uncles or inside the church if their rebellious tick hadn’t been satisfied by marching off to war. Maybe someone in those Koch-funded think [sic] tanks did read their history.

            • Knut says:

              The current Harper government in Canada wants to introduce the US model. Bigger prisons, longer sentences, and less rehab. I speak with some knowledge here, because my mother-in-law was brutally murdered by a man you copped a plea because of a Canadian style Miranda violation by the police (they asked him questions he didn’t want to answer). He got a dozen years instead of life for second-degree murder (in Texas he would be injected). Anyway, he is exactly the kind of sociopathic person whom rehab fails to help. He no sooner got out a couple of months ago, but got slapped back in the high-max security jug.

              Now the moral of all this isn’t that we should lock them all up and throw the key away. In the first year or so after the murder, I would have loved to tear the bastard apart with my bear hands and hang his body parts on a long picket fence. But the rage subsides, and after awhile you don’t give a shit anymore, because it doesn’t replace the loss. In his case, he will probably spend most of the rest of his life in prison anyway, since he can’t function outside.

              Most of the prisoner’s actually benefit from rehab, and the redecivist rate is pretty low. I wouldn’t want to see Canada’s penetential system revised in the direction of US practice.

          • ottogrendel says:

            The US currently has more of its citizens in prison, both in total numbers and as a percentage of the population, than any other nation on the planet. A sure sign of oppression and lack of democracy.

            • onitgoes says:

              No sh*t; I know that well. See my comment @69. Per usual, it’s all about follow the money. Who’s making a big buck$$$ off of a huge prison population??? Wackenhutt comes to mind as one vile villain in the piece. It’s all about Elites making money – period. The end.

              • ottogrendel says:

                At the university where I work, almost all the office furniture is purchased from a prison industry. It is about double the price of retail at, say, Staples. We can order stuff from elsewhere, but that requires special approval, paperwork, etc., so almost no one does it. Nice racket.

        • spanishinquisition says:

          Actually that’s what I’ve seen in defense of Manning’s treatment and I say by all means let’s open up a broader discussion on prisoner torture.

          • eCAHNomics says:

            That would be a great project, if we didn’t have overflowing matters on the docket already.

          • onitgoes says:

            Actually that’s what I’ve seen in defense of Manning’s treatment and I say by all means let’s open up a broader discussion on prisoner torture

            Would love to see that happening. I know that the vast majority of citizens are completely *clueless* about what’s happening in prisons these days. It would be helpful to get the word out, and one can start with just talking about frickin much it is costing the US taxpayer for very little return. I say that bc I think that might get people’s attention more than attempting to *begin* with the issues of torture & wrongful imprisonment.

            Get people to wake up to the fact that they’re being *ripped off* by the Elites running the prison system for their personal profit, and then take it from there.

            There is already some nascent discussion about this in CA bc of the ridiculous cost wrought on CA taxpayers by the idiocy that is Three Strikes. Ahhhnold let out a LOT of prisoners bc CA simply cannot afford to house these low-level offenders. I’m happy to see the discussion beginning even at a minor level.

      • OldFatGuy says:

        Yeah, there are an awful lot of people that believe in the exact opposite of the American ideal, they believe “guilty unless proven innocent” once someone is charged.

        Those folks are usually from the right, and IMO is simply a symptom of those on the right being very authoritarian. They just believe if those in authority say something, it’s true. The police don’t make mistakes. Ever. Because they are AUTHORITY. Thus, if you’re arrested and charge with a crime, you MUST be guilty. LIkewise, when they see another Rodney King getting the shit beat out of him, they’ll almost always side with the cop. Some mistake that part for racism, IMO that’s all part of authoritarianism.

        Saw another example from a troll in a Manning thread yesterday where this troll kept bringing up that it wasn’t Manning’s place to decide what should or shouldn’t be de-classified, that there is a chain of command to decide that. Again, same old authoritarian bullshit. The chain of command can NEVER be wrong, therefore, no one like Manning could ever make such a decision. Never mind the fact that, at least when I joined the military, we were TAUGHT that at the end of the day we were responsible for our actions. If we believed that what our superiors were telling us to do or not do was unlawful, it was OUR DUTY to not follow those in our chain of command that were giving out unlawful orders or commands.

        The funny part of course is watching the assholes lose their fucking minds when a Democrat becomes President, because in their world AUTHORITY is always right, but DEMOCRATS are always wrong, so for a few years their heads blow up from the cognitive dissonance.

        • eCAHNomics says:

          Love your comment. So well put. I remember that troll from yesterday. I had to quit the thread, he made me so sick. But I’m prepared for the next time he returns!

        • ottogrendel says:

          Indeed. There sure are a lot of cop and lawyer shows on TV where the morality play is all about punishing some irredeemable offender. Damn, there’s a lot of those shows.

          “The funny part of course is watching the assholes lose their fucking minds when a Democrat becomes President, because in their world AUTHORITY is always right, but DEMOCRATS are always wrong, so for a few years their heads blow up from the cognitive dissonance.”

          And the conclusions that get invented to deal with two such immovable objects. That’s the core of the racist birther issue: Presidents are white people; Obama is not white yet he is in the White House; clearly these things can’t go together; therefore he must be an alien commie plant. Aha, the conflict is thus resolved.

  5. lsls says:

    As for President Audacity, (Hi Barry, ((waving)), he’s supposedly “heartbroken” regarding Japan, but meanwhile, his drones during these very days are killing innocent civilians. The man is an emotionless drone himself.

    LS

      • BoxTurtle says:

        Read, yes. It’s clear his understanding is lacking. Or has been purchased by his financial backers.

        I mean, a lawyer can’t possibly believe that Manning’s treatment is constitutional. Even if said lawyer STARTED OUT thinking like that, a few minutes of reading here would be enough to, ah, raise reasonable doubt.

        Barry is an improvement over Bush only in the fact that I find Barry’s kids more likable.

        Boxturtle (And I guess I’d rather have lunch with Mrs. Obama rather than Mrs. Bush)

      • Surtt says:

        Obama is a troll.
        He sends out one of his staffers to punch a hippie,
        then sneaks over here to watch everyone get upset.

  6. tjbs says:

    My father a devout republican would have two answers.

    What’s it to you ? Turns back the question.

    His life’s philosophy for a republican ” don’t complain, don’t explain and don’t press your luck.” Sound like obama.

  7. orionATL says:

    our president was using willful ignorance to dodge an issue, a very lawyerly thing to do.

    his comment, re: inquiring of dod, was designed to keep him out of the fray -to duck the issue.

    furthermore, it allows him to later claim he was misinformed by his dod advisors.

    claiming to be misinformed by advisors is a favorite tactic of obama’s – the man has advanced weaseling instincts.

    “my advisors misled me” was obama”s response to the economic crisis.

    it is important to understand that obama is not a president;

    he is a provost.

    “provost” is the leadership model he emulates.

    thus, if there is serious tenure corruption in the college of education, and if the dean nonetheless assures the provost that tenure reviews are being well-conducted,

    then provost obama operates as if there is no tenure problem in the college.

    if the college of medicine and behavioral sciences has a very distinguished faculty member whose research was twisted by hidden pharma payments for consulting and speeches,

    and if the dean assures provost obama that the taking of that money is a non-issue,

    then provost obama operates as if there were no problem of corrupted research.

    if the college of defense assures provost obama that prisoner manning is being treated properly when in fact he manifestly is not,

    then provost obama operates as if there were no problem of mistreatment.

    the “provostly” leadership style places great emphasis on the colleges’ and the deans’ (or the dept of gov’t’s and secretarys’) autonomy.

    hence, for example, the dept of treasury can engage in foolish, incompetent, or corrupt behavior and receive only strong support from provost obama.

    in this model the president-as-provost does not lead; he ratifies and supports the decisions of the individual bureaucracies that constitute the gov’t.

    you might call this also, a confederate model of governing.

    in all of this, the personal moral and intellectual views of the provost-president, are treated by that leader as irrelevant.

    a very good fit as a model of governing for an amoral president with no passionate interest in any aspect of the plethora of problem america faces –

    “everything is on the table”,

    except institutional loyalty.

    • ottogrendel says:

      “my advisors misled me” was obama”s response to the economic crisis.”

      It may also betray a real lack of power on the part of the shadow cast by business, the two-dimensional image we see on TV. So apparently, the most powerful individual in the US can get by with no responsibility accruing to that power? Would we buy such a response from any company manager? What would that response say about the manager’s real power and efficacy?

      Personally, I’m having trouble telling the difference between US national politics and the operations of the Scranton branch of Dunder Mifflin, between Obama and Michael Scott. But then, I suspect that’s the point.

      • onitgoes says:

        Personally, I’m having trouble telling the difference between US national politics and the operations of the Scranton branch of Dunder Mifflin, between Obama and Michael Scott. But then, I suspect that’s the point.

        Deserves a repeat… guffaw. Thanks for that and inclined to agree, albeit it’s a disservice to mega-egotistical narcissistic sociopath, Michael Scott, to compare him to Obama, methinks.

  8. orionATL says:

    ew@13

    in the context of kissing the ass of the mainstream press.

    this was provost o’s first gridiron dinner; he was busy in ’09 and ’10,

    but ’12 is looming now which means its time to court the pharisees of the corporate media.

  9. Michael Kwiatkowski says:

    There’s no explanation that could possibly justify the torture of a human being. Obama will not end the torture of Manning or anyone else. He must be removed from office, so that someone who will end it may be elected. This means impeachment, people. Torture is a high crime, and Obama is using it against prisoners who have neither been charged with or convicted of any crime.

    • perris says:

      I am with you on that impeachment idea, if only the repukes would read the lake, they would understand there is support on both sides of the aisle for impeachment, they just have to make sure it’s for the proper articles

      and of course they would have to implicate the previous administration, to which they are obviously unwilling

      I tell you what….I bet cheney would have no problems accusing obama of high crimes for being accomplice to torture…he is that brazen

      you heard it here first

  10. grumps says:

    I believe that most of what Pvt. Manning “leaked” the diplomats and governments already knew about.
    How about jail for the banksters and wall streeters who literally brought the world to its knees financially. There they sit in their lovely offices, dine in their private clubs and go home to a house filled with diplomas citing their excellence in all things questionable. Meanwhile Pvt. Manning has not been accused of any crime yet. So this presidency has no more moral backbone than previous ones and it is up to us to bring justice to this case.

  11. Knoxville says:

    what they’re doing to Manning, the forced nudity, goes right back to Gitmo

    Maybe Obama’s response will be to go see Manning stripped and hooded, lean toward him, double-point at his penis, and smile for the camera.

    Seems like Obama’s just fine with such ridiculous and counterproductive and stupid treatment of a prisoner…

  12. eCAHNomics says:

    Like so many other things O is increasingly doing, sticking his thumb in lefties’ eyes. Nya nya nya nya. I can do whatever I want & you can’t stop me, you f’n retards.

    • Knoxville says:

      So Obama is what you’d get if you combined Dick Cheney and Rahm Emanuel? Now there’s a frightening image.

      • perris says:

        So Obama is what you’d get if you combined Dick Cheney and Rahm Emanuel? Now there’s a frightening image.

        well, cheney and obama are related after all

        • eCAHNomics says:

          The Rs are all completely crazy. O will turn on his speechifying face & trounce whoever runs against him. Even with Koch on their side.

          • perrylogan says:

            I’m less sure. It might at least be close.

            The whole wave that drove Obama into office is long gone now, to say nothing of most of the big money. Also, I believe Obama’s prowess as a speaker and campaigner is largely a myth, based largely on our knowing next to nothing about him. Time will tell, unless we get lucky and Obama resigns.

            C’mon, Obama–resign.

            • eCAHNomics says:

              I’m not gonna get into an arm wrestling contest in 3/11 on who’s gonna win prez in 11/12, when we don’t even know who the R candidate will be. There will be plenty of time for that later.

              The only thing I would add now, is that all the commenters on FDL who moan about not voting, and the the absolute necessity of voting for the lesser evil, have pretty much stopped commenting for now. But they’ll show up again when the election gets closer, esp after the R is anointed. There are a LOT of them.

          • hackworth1 says:

            Koch’s see no need to replace Obama. Union busting, environmental hatchet man, tax cutting Obama is giving the Koch’s everything they want at the Federal level.

            Knocking off non-blue-dog D Congressmembers and Governors is the Koch’s forte. They get a bigger bang for their buck working at the State Level.

            There are some states where the Koch’s do not get complete acquiescense. That’s where Kochwerk remains.

            • eCAHNomics says:

              Not the slightest surprise.

              On Wall St, they always gave to both Ds & Rs, and sent their execs to control finances in all admins.

        • Knoxville says:

          Darth Stumpy

          Oh no! Obama’s turned to the Dark Side of the Force! *s

          Too bad it’s not just a crappy Lucas movie we’re talking about…

    • perris says:

      well, we might stop him next election, I for one would be much happier with a republican dressed in red then one dressed in blue, much easier running defense against an enemy in the enemies uniform rather then the enemy in ours

  13. Beese says:

    If his psycopathic committment to killing people hadn’t already convinced you that Barack Obama shared [George W. Bush’s] particular quality of being a vacant, blood-driven monster whose outward appearance as one of our own kind is no more than an act of ingeious fakery, then you may wish to consider his response to the torture of Bradley Manning, which he treats with the blithe indifference of a busy manager signing off on some subordinate’s expense report. Yeah, he assured me everything was copasetic. It’s all good.

    http://whoisioz.blogspot.com/2011/03/in-jerusalem.html

  14. SanderO says:

    Obi is either a shill for TBTB and that would make him a dishonest person with respect to his pre election statements on record

    or

    He is blackmailed or bought by TPTB and he’s an actor with no conscience, ethics or moral compass

    or

    an empty suit who doesn’t mess up the English language a la W but could care less and is a selfish SOB who is cashing out or intends to after his first term.

  15. KrisAinCA says:

    The most troublesome part of this is the rewriting of our laws. With the WH and Pentagon assertions that “this is standard treatment”, the record reflects this going forward. In the mind of the public this establishes a precedent. Upon hearing about tortures like these in the future, it seems to be “standard treatment”.

    The media is not doing its job as a 4th estate here. These assertions by our government should be met with the response that “standard treatment is wrong, immoral, and illegal, if this is standard treatment”. Shockinly (/s), this is not happening. It bodes ill for our future as a society.

  16. Nathan Aschbacher says:

    Now the whole world watches America and observes what it does; not what it says.

    Apparently this particular group of professors doesn’t consider “America” to be part of “the whole world.” Because we seem pretty content, on whole, to only pay attention to what we say. That, or we’re either complicit in what’s going on in our name or incapable of doing something about it.

    Any of those speaks to some seriously deep rooted problems that a letter from law professors isn’t going to do anything to fix.

  17. powwow says:

    Well, I’ll give CNN this much – they ran this damning editorial today by psychiatric Terry Kupers.

    I’d like to see Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin, House Armed Services Committee Chairman Buck McKeon and Obama/Gates/Johnson/Morrell try to explain away this evidence-based fact:

    The problem with the argument that Manning is being kept [in practice, via the abuse of POI watch & MAX status] in long-term solitary confinement to prevent his suicide is that long-term solitary confinement causes suicide.

    One of the most stunning statistics in criminology today is that, on average, 50% of U.S. prisoner suicides happen among the 2% to 8% of prisoners who are in solitary confinement, also known as segregation. When I tour prisons as I prepare for expert testimony in class-action lawsuits, many prisoners living in isolation tell me they despair of ever being released from solitary.

    And there is an objective basis to their fear: One of the many psychiatric symptoms known to be bred in solitary is mounting anger, plus the dread that losing control of that anger will lead to more disciplinary infractions and a longer stint in segregation. So the prisoner despairs of ever gaining more freedom, and that despair leads to suicide.

    Suicide is merely the tip of the iceberg.

    Terry A. Kupers [Kupers is institute professor at The Wright Institute and author of “Prison Madness: The Mental Health Crisis Behind Bars and What We Must Do About It.”]

    • OldFatGuy says:

      Yeah, I read that.

      I sure wish I knew the witch that IsIs was speaking about above. If anyone else saw that could they let me know? It almost sounds like that woman with something like Jello in her name (sorry, that’s not really close, been a long time since I’ve watched CNN). I do have a reason for wanting to know, so thanks to anyone that can help. (Yellin, or Jellin maybe???)

  18. onitgoes says:

    Thanks for update and glad to see what the law prof wrote to former adjunct law Prof Obama. Not that I think it’ll do much good, but hey: gotta give everything a try.

    Agree that it’s very chilling, to say the very very least, that Obama and the Military are doing their d*mndest to encourage the “acceptance” of Manning’s treatment as “just” or “normal” or whatever it is. We’re back into Orwellian territory on this one, for sure.

  19. onitgoes says:

    I fully believe that the Kochs – amongst other rightwing Elites – have give very generously to Obama and others who call themselves “Democrats.”

    As we’ve said over & over, the issue is no longer about D v. R or conservative v. liberal. It’s CLASS Warfare, and it’s about the upper 2% Elites v. the 98% serfs.

    David Koch doesn’t give a sh*t what someone’s alleged political affiliation is. David Koch just wants to buy what he wants to buy. As we see with WI State Senator Hopper, David Koch is clearly NOT picky about who he buys off.

  20. eCAHNomics says:

    I’m gonna go start dinner prep. Making a new dish so it will take a little while.

    I have enjoyed the EPU discussion, everyone.

  21. onitgoes says:

    Gotta go, too. Up for continued discussions re how to deal with the US prison slave labor system. ttfn

  22. wendydavis says:

    Bush brought us ‘pre-emptive war; Obama has ushered in ‘pre-emptive punishment’.

    This nation no longer even considers its moral compass.

  23. DeanOR says:

    I think the question is what “standard procedure” will be. Military & intell have tried to hang on to as many elements of Gitmo as possible and then show that they can get away with using those techniques with US citizens. We know that extreme isolation, nudity, sleep deprivation, etc, can destroy a person. They want to be able to do that as standard procedure with anyone they choose to subject to the regimen, and they know they can persuade willingly gullible people that it is no big deal and that so-called “conservatives” love it.

    • DeanOR says:

      At the very least, he has bought: “It’s ok if we are the ones doing it, because we’re the good guys and we’re just being pragmatic”. Cheyneyesque

  24. howard says:

    Peace starts at home, of course, and the Nobel Committee deserves a refund from a recent prizewinner.

  25. Asmodeus says:

    You all should have known this was coming. You were warned. The FIRST thing Obama did in office was to make himself a de facto Accomplice After the Fact to War Crimes, Crimes Against Humanity, High Crimes and Misdemeanors by flatly refusing to even investigate, let alone prosecute said crimes committed by the War Criminals among us.

    He then went on to further incriminate himself, via various treaties and laws banning such crimes and/or their cover-up by PARDONING everyone who might have done these things, because, and I quote: “These young soldiers were just following orders.” Now where have we heard that before? Oh right. Nuremberg.

    I’ll not vote for a Repugnican, but as far as my vote, Obama, and most of his party, can go to hell. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Go directly to hell.

    I cannot remain within my moral framework as a non-sociopathic human being and even tacitly support these sickening wastes of oxygen we are forced to call ‘Representatives’ any longer.

    Why are recall elections only being pushed for in Wisconsin? Seems to me like it should be a national campaign about now. And it really doesn’t matter anymore who gets nailed by it. We should be sweeping the political board clean, and with all the mercy they’ve shown us. Which is of course to say NONE.