Carmen Ortiz Blows Off Dzhokhar Tsarneav’s Request on His Own Involvement in Waltham

As AP reported, the government reported in motion opposing his discovery requests that Ibragim Todashev told them his brother participated in the 2011 Waltham triple murder.

In any event, the government has already disclosed to Tsarnaev that, according to Todashev, Tamerlan Tsarnaev participated in the Waltham triple homicide. Any benefit to Tsarnaev of knowing more about the precise “nature and extent” of his brother’s involvement does not outweigh the potential harm of exposing details of an ongoing investigation into an extremely serious crime, especially at this stage of the proceedings.

But the motion doesn’t address the full extent of Dzhokhar’s request, which asked for,

All documents concerning the investigation of the triple homicide in Waltham, MA on September 10-11, 2011, including without limitation documents concerning the alleged involvement of Tamerlan Tsarnaev, Ibragim Todashev, and/or our client in those murders. [my emphasis]

I’m not saying the government is wrong on the law in this case, and I do wonder whether they didn’t address this because they suspect Dzhokhar was involved in the murder (which would provide the existence of such information more protection).

But I do note their response focuses on whether they have information on Tamerlan and/or Ibragim (the latter of which they say would not be discoverable), not on whether they have information on any involvement Dzhokhar might have had in the killings.

18 replies
  1. PJ Evans says:

    Not only that, but also killing Todashev means he’s unavailable to testify in court, where he could have been cross-examined. And you can bet that none of the LEOs involved will be called.

  2. emptywheel says:

    @john francis lee: In my tweet I noted that to sustain this they will have to either 1) ditch their claim Todashev was alone with the FBI guy who killed him or 2) ditch their claim to have more than one guy who heard him implicate Tamerlan.

    I agree, it doesn’t make sense.

  3. Bay State Librul says:

    The Dzhokhar brothers are despicable human beings who maimed and killed
    innocent runners/spectators.
    When it hits home, you change your feelings.
    When I see the people who have lost their limbs, and have suffered,
    I feel no compassion….

  4. bloodypitchfork says:

    quote:”The Dzhokhar brothers are despicable human beings who maimed and killed innocent runners/spectators.”unquote

    Far out. I missed the trial. Since you must have seen the evidence entered while witnessing the trial, could you please provide the transcripts so I too can be relieved that justice was served?

    sheeezushchrist. Thanks for another Great Moment in American Dumb.

  5. bloodypitchfork says:

    quote: “Carmen Ortiz Blows Off Dzhokhar Tsarneav…” unquote

    Holy moly. I’ve seen some attention grabbing headers before, but I’ll file that one under “Things I Never Want to See”.


    Btw, Carmen Ortiz can suck Holder off till she turns blue, but it won’t cure her stench.

  6. emptywheel says:

    @Bay State Librul: Even if you believe that, and even if you believe it mitigates due process, you might also want to think whether you get the current fiction about why they did what they did, or whether this trial can serve to get to the actual truth.

  7. Jeff Kaye says:

    @PJ Evans: Bingo.

    The US would have us believe the only man who could link Tamerlan to the Waltham killings was a man they themselves killed in their custody. The only way they get away with this is because the US press covers for them.

  8. Bay State Librul says:


    The actual truth is that we will never find the truth.
    At some point you have to look at the victims…
    Would you feel the same way if a friend of yours get his legs blown off.
    I admit, I am prejudicial but man it sucks.
    I’ve changed.

  9. emptywheel says:

    @Bay State Librul: Well, if we’re not going to find the truth, and instead will allow the state to tell things that are fairly clearly not true, then we will not punish those who set up this crime and may be plotting others.

  10. Bay State Librul says:


    I’m not so sure I believe that. If there are others involved, The FBI and state officials are investigating. My first reaction is to believe what the FBI and state officials say. I would say your first reaction is
    to say what are they “hiding”. I understand your point of view, but I don’t subscribe to everything being a conspiracy, but again I’m not an investigative journalist.
    Also, it is never ending, we never come to conclusive truths.
    Some days, I believe Thomas Merton had the right idea in his book “No Man is an Island”

  11. emptywheel says:

    @Bay State Librul: My first reaction is not to say “what are they hiding.”

    It is to say, “What are the facts and do they make sense”? When they do, I don’t assume they are hiding things. But both the published and a good deal of unpublished details about this case make it clear they are, at a minimum, telling a convenient narrative if not outright lying.

  12. Carlos, push the plunger quick! says:

    Cass Sunstein has sent BSL to cure your warped epistemology by tugging your heartstrings with the 260 horrifically-mangled victims hidden away in Spaulding Hospital, built just-in-time on the grounds of the decommissioned Charleston Navy Yard. They’re rolling in 60+ million USD of totally, utterly spontaneous charity moo-la to go, “Ow”. Hey, I’d hold my foot and hop for a piece of that!

    It’s also intriguing that BSL quickly falls back from info-free demonization of the accused, all the way to the authorities’ third or fourth line of defense, “we’ll never know.” We sure as hell will know, if this botched Bozo PSYOP ever goes to trial. Baker smells blood,

    Ortiz’ only chance to avert career suicide is making Dzhokhar eat his socks.

  13. Bay State Librul says:

    @emptywheel: But making sense to you, and making sense to them will always be different because they have info and data that you might not have, and vices versa

  14. emptywheel says:

    @Bay State Librul: Sure. Perhaps.

    But if they choose to tell stories that are transparently incomplete, then they have to expect that thinking beings will challenge those stories.

    Look, THEY have different incentives, beyond just trying to minimize the people who get their legs blown off (which is after all a unbelievably rare occurrence, compared to the more commeon ways people die and get incapacitated). THEY have to think intl relations, THEY have to think about their reputations if they’ve been prioritizing the wrong kind of crime targets, etc.

Comments are closed.