Third Presidential Debate — Open Thread

This is an open thread for the third presidential debate between major party candidates. It’s open to topics related to the debate topics and questions; let’s avoid other topics like sports or food, etc., unless they relate directly to the candidates.

Debate location: University of Nevada-Las Vegas, Las Vegas, Nevada

Time: 9:00 p.m. to 10:30 p.m. EDT (Nevada, however, is in MDT.)

Debate moderators: Chris Wallace, Fox News

Participants: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump (Gary Johnson and Jill Stein did not qualify per Commission on Presidential Debates which organizes these events.)

The format for this debate is the same as the first presidential debate. A 15-minute segment will be dedicated to each of six questions posited by the moderator. Each candidate will have two minutes to respond to each question, with a short rebuttal allotted to each candidate. The moderator will use the balance of time to flesh out additional discussion on the topics.

It’s rumored Trump will try another ‘nuclear winter’ move by inviting guests whose presence may ruffle Clinton. His effort last debate — bringing women who accused Bill Clinton of sexual assault to a panel before and outside of the debate — didn’t appear as effective as he would like. Will he indulge in other threatening body language as he did during the second debate?

Other rumors suggest Clinton may invite members of the Central Park Five to rattle Trump, but this is probably unnecessary as 1) Trump has doubled down on his stupidity about the CP5’s guilt (they were exonerated by DNA evidence), and 2) he’s easy to rattle without any third parties’ assistance.

I don’t know about you but I think I need to stock up on tequila to get through this last gasp.

Blogger since 2002, political activist since 2003, geek since birth. Opinions informed by mixed-race, multi-ethnic, cis-female condition, further shaped by kind friends of all persuasions. Sci-tech frenemy, wannabe artist, decent cook, determined author, successful troublemaker. Mother of invention and two excessively smart-assed young adult kids. Attended School of Hard Knocks; Rather Unfortunate Smallish Private Business School in Midwest; Affordable Mid-State Community College w/evening classes. Self-employed at Tiny Consulting Business; previously at Large-ish Chemical Company with HQ in Midwest in multiple marginalizing corporate drone roles, and at Rather Big IT Service Provider as a project manager, preceded by a motley assortment of gigs before the gig economy was a thing. Blogging experience includes a personal blog at the original, managing editor for a state-based news site, and a stint at Firedoglake before landing here at emptywheel as technology’s less-virginal-but-still-accursed Cassandra.
18 replies
  1. bloopie2 says:

    I believe the six topics are: Debt and entitlements; Immigration; Economy; Supreme Court; Foreign hot spots; Fitness to be President. Trump will win the debate because he has good answers for all. Debt? A no-brainer. Entitlements is clear—Trump is entitled to everything because he is The Best. Immigration–Close the doors now that his wife is in (note, she can barely speak English after all there years; almost every Slovenian in Slovenia can speak better English than she can. So much for his ability to choose well). Economy—our country is bankrupt and needs a leader who knows a lot about that. Supreme Court–He will find judges who, like him, have no respect for the Constitution; these are parlous times, after all. Foreign hot spots–Well, there are a lot more gorgeous foreign models out there, just waiting for him to grab them because he is The Best. And Fitness to be President—Sorry, I can’t be more explicit on national TV.

    The other channel is showing Real Housewives of Somewhereorother. Say what you will about the vapidness (vapidity?) of those ladies, they give no quarter and I will pick them any day in a contest against Trump.

  2. Rayne says:

    Utter insanity. The man is unmoored from reality as we experience it here on earth. At least Murdoch’s Wall Street Journal has finally cut themselves loose after tonight’s seditious comments rejecting concession.

    The schism in my social media feed was marked: men were aghast at Trump’s rejection of concession; women were furious at his systematic misogyny through out his performance, culminating in “nasty woman” remark. I should have set a stopwatch on the time from that idiotic insult to the registration of

    And the feedback from friends overseas…they swing between aghast and terrified at the descent into ridiculousness our politics have taken.

  3. martin says:

    Damn. I was hoping I’d wake up to the news that Donald Dickhead had pulled out his dick and waved it at Hillary or groped her on national TV.  Now I’m disappointed.

    I have an idea though. Let’s declare Trump’s birthday as National Vomit Day. Just think of all the things you could do. Like..oh I don’t know..maybe have a Vomiting contest.  On a Trump effigy.  Or maybe..National Slap Trump day.   Yeah..that’s it. Perfect.  The whole nation can nominate woman for a 10 women lineup, who each get to slap Trump silly while the others hold him.  On National TV. Great.. sounds like a hit TV show to me.  Meanwhile, this woman is singlehandedly doing a pretty good job of verbally slapping Trump silly on national TV.  Given a chance, I can imagine what she would do to Mr. Scumbag in person though.



  4. bloopie2 says:

    I read that Donald Jr. has now said that being President would be “a step down” for his father. My God. What a slam on the country and on the American people. Jr.may not be a sexual predator like his father, but he is certainly as arrogant.

    • martin says:

      Arrogant is a massive understatement.  Trump’s family is the posterchild for Narcissists-R-Us.  Also read,  Larry Flint of Hustler fame, is offering a $1mil reward for any video of Trump perpetrating sexual assault(irony of ironies) or otherwise breaking the law.

      I hope he succeeds.  The vision of Trump in prison brings a smile to my face.  Moreover,  the thought of what might happen to him redefines the words sublime delight.


      • martin says:

        Actually,  wouldn’t it be fantastic if Clinton, Trump and Comey were all arrested.


        Ahhhhh… the stuff of dreams.

  5. martin says:

    On a side note, Clinton may not be off the email hook yet.  Looks like some of the FBI agents are really PISSED OFF at Comey, and vow to tell Congress how Comey thwarted the investigation.

    Wouldn’t it be lovely if Lynch were forced into prosecuting not only Clinton..but Comey too, for “endeavoring to obstruct justice”. Even an Attorney General has been prosecuted for this.

    Of course, I’m not holding my breath.


  6. edge says:

    All I got out of the debate was that they both have different approaches to deception.

    Trump like to go for the direct denial –

    Wallace – let’s talk about how you assault women
    Trump – Lies! All lies – made up by Clinton and her team. No one has more respect for women than me. All women love me and think I’m awesome.

    While Clinton prefers to artfully dodge the actual question asked-

    Wallace – Let’s talk about pay 2 play
    Clinton – I’d love to talk about my foundation. My foundation spends money wisely, helps people with AIDS and generally spreads happiness and rainbows throughout the universe.

    Based solely off what I saw last night, the only debate participant I’d vote for is Wallace.

  7. P J Evans says:

    Trump still is trying to get out of accepting the election results. That alone should tell people he’ll completely unqualified for any elected office.

    No matter what the local trolls say, Clinton is about as honest as anyone in politics, more honest than a lot of them, and not at all a criminal. I wish I could say the same of most Republicans.

    • bevin says:

      The truth is that the systems used for recording and counting votes in the USA include some that are completely unreliable. Most of them are not only open to manipulation and unprotected from objective monitoring but have to be taken completely on faith.

      Any system which does include paper ballots manually filled out and capable of being carefully inspected before being counted is not to be trusted.

      It is surprising that this still needs to be said-at risk of being accused of trolling- four Presidential cycles after the nonsense in 2000 and after the very suspicious Ohio results in 2004.

      One of the worst aspects of the current lynch mob approach to the Presidential election is that it is serving as a means of whitewashing practices which must be reformed if the system is to retain any credibility.

      It is not Trump’s vague charges that threaten the credibility of the election process but the long established folk wisdom that elections have been, are and will be stolen until serious reforms are made.  The people know very well that the system is indeed rigged, they didn’t need Trump to tell them that. And anyone with the most basic acquaintance with the facts of US history will understand why nobody-but the most invested Hillary supporters- will deny it.

      Bernhard at Moon of Alabama makes this point:
      “…It is high time for the U.S. to return to paper-ballots and manual vote counting. The process is easier, comprehensible, less prone to manipulations and reproducible. Experience in other countries show that it is also nearly as fast, if not faster, than machine counting. There is simply no sensible reason why machines should be used at all.
      *(The German Constitutional Court prohibited the use of all voting machines in German elections because for the general voters they institute irreproducible vote counting which leads to a general loss of trust in the democratic process. The price to pay for using voting machines is legitimacy.)”
      For Obama-who is not unconnected with the Chicago machine-to claim that elections cannot be rigged is a joke.
      Changing the subject, this is what Craig Murray has to say about the “Russian connection” which seems to have become another central tenet in the belief system of the Clintonites:
      “I  left Julian after midnight. He is fit, well, sharp and in good spirits. WikiLeaks never reveals or comments upon its sources, but as I published before a fortnight ago, I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is not any Russian state actor or proxy that gave the Democratic National Committee and Podesta material to WikiLeaks. The claim is nonsense. Journalists are also publishing that these were obtained by “hacking” with no evidence that this was the method used to obtain them.
      “The control of the Democratic party machinery deliberately to unfairly ensure Clinton’s victory over Bernie Sanders is a matter of great public interest. The attempt by the establishment from Obama down to divert attention from this by a completely spurious claim against Russia, repeated without investigation by a servile media, is a disgrace.
      “The over-close relationship between the probable future President and Wall Street is also very important. WikiLeaks has done a great public service by making this plain.
      “The attempts by the mainstream media to portray WikiLeaks as supporters of Trump and Putin because they publish some of Clinton’s darker secrets is completely illogical and untrue in fact. The idea we must pretend Clinton is a saint is emetic…”

    • lefty665 says:

      “No matter what the local trolls say, Clinton is about as honest as anyone in politics, more honest than a lot of them, and not at all a criminal.”

      Oh thank you. You made me laugh so hard that my sides hurt and beer came out my nose. About the only time either Hillary or Trump told the truth last night was when they were branding each other as being unfit to be president. They were both right.

      Like Wm. F. Buckley with Gore Vidal you exposed the emptyness of your delusions the other day when you made the out of control ad hominem attack on me. Coincidentally I’m sure “Crypto Nazi” is about where on the political spectrum your “left of center” is in NeoLib/NeoCon Hillaryland. As my old white haired mother used to say “Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas”.

      Partisanship is a 200+ year tradition in this country, and I’m pleased you care enough to participate. But, zombie like delusional partisanship is not healthy. I encourage you to step back and take a few deep breaths. However, be careful, if you repeat “Hillary is not a crook” there is likely to be a flash, the smell of sulphur and old Slippery Dick hisself may appear, cradling his little dog Checkers and smiling approvingly.

      2/3 of the country knows we are on the wrong track and desperate for change, not more same. I encourage you to vote 3rd party, Green or modern Know Nothing, to help us along the path to fix our corrupt political system.

  8. person1597 says:

    Trump has yet to invoke Nibiru as a reason to elect him.  Very disappointing! It would be YUUUGE and very entertaining — like the planet in question!

    If invoking Planet IX or Planet X doesn’t cut it, there’s always Proxima b.  Yes, Trump could very well be elected President of Proxima b, by proxy, simply by claiming the Annunaki, “Those of Royal Blood”,  authorized and encouraged him to become their agent amongst earth-like galactic planets.  As a living descendant of the Nephilim, he should claim his heritage as Beneficent Cosmic Ruler and Glorious Earthly Magistrate of Men.

    No wonder he and Marduke, err, Murdoch are such Terrific World Messengers of Fate and ExtraManliness (TM).

    Wow.  Trump the Almighty.  No stopping him until all the FEMA camps and private prisons are filled with apostate, non-Trumpalo Dems who failed to join the Tea Party, in spite of Spankin’ Ted Cruz and Giantess Michele Bachmann, who are they now!

    “I actually supported Ted Cruz. I thought he was fabulous but I also see that at the end of the day God raised up, I believe, Donald Trump who was going to be the nominee in this election. I don’t think God sits things out. He’s a sovereign God. Donald Trump became our nominee”

    Hey, it might just work in this particular election… or if not, maybe in 2020 when things are clearer.

  9. greengiant says:

    The irrationality of the candidate(s),   and so on and so forth in the immediate sense are relevant only in how they affect the election.    Are the democrats underestimating Trump’s chances?    Per some deplorables’ information Clinton’s PACs have paid for/executed the recent NBC/WSJ poll.   That would be the same Comcast/NBC that was stalling on and “editing” the Billy Bush tape.   If you want Clinton to win does she need your support?

  10. bevin says:

    Whether Hillary knows anything about this seems to me unlikely. But that some, amongst her ruthless and crooked campaign teams, may be involved seems very possible.

    It should be unnecessary to point out that charges of this sort should never be levelled unless there is very good evidence to support them. Just when you think that politicians can’t get any lower they surprise us by foing so:

  11. Denis says:

    1. . . . .
    Rayne says:
    October 20, 2016 at 2:26 am
    “Utter insanity. The man is unmoored from reality as we experience it here on earth.”

    P J Evans says:
    October 20, 2016 at 1:39 pm
    “Trump still is trying to get out of accepting the election results. That alone should tell people he’ll completely unqualified for any elected office.”

    Part of the problem libruls are having is that they hear the first 6 or 7 syllables out of DTDuck’s mouth and their brains stop working and shut him off. He never says anything that doesn’t have at least a scintilla of truth in it, but the libruls can’t hear any of it.

    Example 1: The Billy Bush conservation has been reduced by the libruls and librul press to 3 words: “grabbed their pussy”.

    Oh, the horror! The horror! The horror! A man using a mammalian metaphor to refer to female genitalia, and yet women use an ornithological metaphor to refer to male genitalia all the time.

    But if you would actually listen to what DTDuck was saying, it is more denigrating of (certain) women than of him. The point he was making was consent. He was saying that when you are a famous and/or filthy rich male, some women will consent to loutish behavior that might otherwise be classified as misdemeanor battery. The world has its gold-diggers, IOW.

    I mean, dude, I really identify. I’ve been there. When I was playing in a campus rock band, I can’t tell you how many times drunk co-eds grabbed my glutes, spilled beer on my bell-bottoms, and tattooed my face with lip-stick.That was the whole point of playing in the band. [I admit, none of them ever grabbed my pussy, but that was only because I left her home to keep the dog company.] So anyone can be the victim of loutish, drunken behavior, even if you look like Roy Orbison or me.

    And as far as all of these whining women Gloria Allred has dug up. . . First, I would not believe anything that has Allred’s stench on it. Second, maybe there was a basket-full of deplorable behavior going on 10-15 years ago, but once the statute of limitations has run it’s a dead issue. You got a problem, then you go to the police station and file a report. You get a copy of the report and keep it with your valuable papers. Then, even if the cops blow you off and don’t do anything, if the issue ever comes up again, you’ve got some documentary evidence of what you claimed happened. But in the absence of a police report or other evidence, it didn’t happen. The problem is that “Jackie” and Sabrina Erdely at UVa and Crystal Gail Mangum and the false lacrosse team false accusations at Duke have taught us that there are a lot of lying women in this world.

    Misogyny is one thing, but reality is one thing, too.

    Example 2: The Democrat horse-poop about DTDuck not automatically accepting the outcome of the election taints the nasty Hilton campaign more than it does DTDuck. The faux-issue itself is part of the media-fix.

    Nobody, and certainly no businessman, in their right frickin’ mind would say: “Yeah, duh . . . sure, OK, whatever. I’ve invested tens of millions in this venture, but whatever the future outcome is, I’ll go along with anything you say.” Anyone who expects that of DTDuck is the one disconnected from reality.

    We all know, and the Democrats most of all, that these elections can be and have been rigged in the recent past. And the reason they are rigged is because for generations no one has had the guts to say it.

    If there is reasonable evidence of systemic problems on Nov09, then DTDuck does not want to be in a position of having waived any valid complaints because some media dick asked him a loaded question three weeks earlier. If this is an “attack on our democratic system,” then our democratic system sucks as badly as our rabid Democrats.

    Why are the libruls not bitching about Gore contesting the hanging-tabs screw-up? Jon Schwartz at The Intercept makes the further point that in 2000 both the Republicans and Democrats were geared-up and lawyered-up to contest the outcome of the election if the electoral vote did not go with the popular vote. Why are no libruls bitching about that?

    Besides, thanks to Wikileaks, there is now no doubt whatever that Hilton conspired with Debbie Schultz and the DNC to rig the primary against Sanders. Anyone with an nanogram of functional brain matter would fully expect HIlton to do the same to grab the keys to the WH, which is why DTDuck would be a chump to have taken Chris Wallace’s bait.

    2. . . . .
    October 20, 2016 at 12:53 pm

    Hold on, edge . . . could we slo-mo that one part about:

    Wallace – Let’s talk about pay 2 play
    Clinton – I’d love to talk about my foundation.

    Bingo. Pretty much confirms what a freaking crook she is, doesn’t it? Or was that your point?

    3. . . . .
    martin says:
    October 20, 2016 at 10:32 am
    “Wouldn’t it be lovely if Lynch were forced into prosecuting not only Clinton..but Comey too, for “endeavoring to obstruct justice”. Even an Attorney General has been prosecuted for this.”

    Sometimes I love the way you think, but there’s no way Lynch could be “forced” to do such a thing. Besides, she’ll be sitting on the USSCt and Comey will be AttyGen before Valentine’s day. What do you think Bilton talked to Loretta about on the plane? The frickin’ grand-kids?

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