Ask Uncle Ed

Dear Uncle Ed,

I feel very, very badly for the people who are very scared for their way of life. From what I’m understanding, [Trump is] only really wanting illegal immigrants that have committed crimes to be deported, which I agree with. I feel bad for the lesbian and gay and transsexual community that fear for their way of life. From what I understand, he says he’s not going to mess with that.

Somebody called me a racist because I did vote for Trump. Hold on, you don’t know me. Doesn’t that make you a racist by calling me a racist when you don’t know me? I’m looking for a brighter future for me and my children, and honestly I felt l like our country was kind of at risk if we did elect Hillary.**

Signed, K.H. in AL

Dear K.H.

Uncle Ed is glad to see you acknowledge that lots of people are likely to be harmed by the election of Trump. As to immigrants, you are right to be careful in stating Trump’s position, because he has several. As to his position on the LGBT community, again, you may be quite right. Who knows?

But you seem to think the only issue is what Trump thinks. That’s just not true. Trump was elected as a Republican, and now the federal government is controlled by Republicans. As a group, they have repeatedly promised to get rid of immigrants, as did Trump mostly, and have relentlessly opposed decent treatment of immigrants who live here and their children born here or brought here. They support laws and rules treating the LGBT community as second class citizens.

You didn’t mention the risks facing African-Americans, who are already mistreated by the police, and treated unequally in education, safety and hiring. Trump calls himself the “law and order” candidate, which is Republican-speak for even more aggressive policing and mistreatment of Black communities.

You are offended that someone called you a racist. Uncle Ed is glad you don’t want to be thought of as a racist. But, here’s the thing. Your vote empowered known racists like Steven Bannon, Trump’s campaign manager and now a policy adviser in the White House. The Republican party will do its best to hurt immigrants, the LGBT community, and people whose religion or lack of religion they don’t approve, not to mention Blacks and Latinos.

Uncle Ed doesn’t know what’s in your heart. Uncle Ed doesn’t care. Uncle Ed cares about how you act. If you vote for a racist, if your vote emposers racists, then there is no functional difference between you and the most rabid KKK member in terms of the political outcomes for the outgroups. You are operationally a racist.

The most that can be said is that you are willing to accept racism if it makes your life better. That’s how you defend your vote. You claim just you want a brighter future for yourself and your children. As you put it: “…our country was kind of at risk if we did elect Hillary.” Again, what makes you different from self-acknowledged racists?

What about all the other minorities who will be harmed directly by installing racists in the White House and racism in Congress? You are willing to sacrifice all of them and their children. You are willing to deny them their claims to equal dignity and equal rights in whole or in part.

Equal dignity and equal rights are a crucial part of what it means to be an American. The Declaration of Independence says that all of us are entitled to equal dignity. The 14th Amendment to the Constitution says that all of us have equal rights under law. Those ideas, however imperfectly we have lived up to it, are the heart of our democracy.

Now, thanks in part to you, we are governed by a party that flatly doesn’t believe in that kind of equality. They are perfectly willing to ignore some or all the rights and interests of vast numbers of Americans. the LGBT community, women, Muslims, and who knows, maybe even white male coastal elites like Uncle Ed. They don’t think we are real Americans. They expect those despised groups to follow all their laws, to respect their politicians, and to pay taxes, but they do not intend to treat us equally in rights or dignity.

You violated a core American principle. It was thoughtless of you to act this way. Uncle Ed wishes you hadn’t. Calling you a racist seems like a mild reproof when you consider the likely consequences for millions of your fellow citizens. Uncle Ed hopes you continue to think about people other than yourself in the future, and refuse to vote for any politician whose first principle is to deny any of us our rights as Americans to equal dignity, and to be treated equally by our government.

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬+++++++++++
* This is perhaps the first of an occasional series. I’ve been trying to figure out how to respond directly to the stated reasons people give to explain their vote for Trump. It’s mostly a way for me to justify my own position. I’ve been debating whether to post this, but today I saw the movie HIdden Figures, which helped me make up my mind.

Lefties, liberals, coastal elites, all of us are constantly told we need to understand and sympathize with the concerns of Trump voters. Trump voters are never told they must work to understand and sympathize with people who voted for the Democrat. In fact, Trump voters are told that liberals are their enemies, that we hate them and want to hurt them. Of course, they don’t read my posts, and I know I won’t ever persuade anyone that they made a terrible mistake. But I do wish they were forced to think about why those they believe are The Other might be so angry.

** This is quoted from this New York Times article.

Notre Dame undergrad (math); JD, Indiana University at Bloomington; 1st Lieutenant, US Army.; private practice in corporate and securities law; Assistant AG in Tennessee for consumer protection and securities; Blue Sky Securities Commissioner, Tennessee; private practice, bankruptcy and corporate law.

I have had a lifelong interest in economics. For most of my career, that interest was practical, focused on the problems in front of me. Lately I have been more interested in economics as a theory, especially its impact on the lives of people like those I met in my bankruptcy practice, and on the politics of money in the US. I also enjoy reading philosophers, starting in college and steadily expanding my reading ever since. I wrote at FireDogLake for a number of years.

Generally, I think the problem facing the US is the dominance of neoliberal discourse. I think it clouds the vision, and limits the kinds of problems that can be identified and solved. For example, the existence and danger of climate change can easily be identified in a scientific discussion. However, the problem does not fit the neoliberal discourse because science insists that the pursuit of individual and corporate self-interest will lead to devastation. In neoliberal discourse, the pursuit of self-interest always leads to Eden.

The neoliberal project has two prongs. One is the police function of crushing dissent and alternative views. The police function is provided by government agencies and private and institutional actors. The counterpart is the economic system , which is operated by government and by private and institutional actors. Some of these actors operate in both spheres. I focus on the second prong.

60 replies
  1. Wtfwheeler? says:

    Wtf? Does every single republican want to ban gays and throw little mexican children out of the country? This is weak.

        • bmaz says:

          Hi there “Stupid Democrat”.

          I have seen you appear here under the handles “Stupid Democrat”, “WTFWheeler”, ” Fuck Hillary”, “Screw Obamas Intel Stooges”, “Tom”, “Rational” and “Tommy”, and that is all within the last week.

          All within the last week.

          You have appeared under at least eight different handles.

          That is NOT going to work here. STOP. The next time you violate our terms and conditions, you will be gone for good. Pick a handle and have the intellectual honesty to stick to it.

          • bmaz says:

            Oh, Hai “Stupid Democrat” or whatever other name you duplicitously appear under here.

            Yes. I saw your asinine response.

            No, I will not free it up because it is antagonistic and in perpetuation of exactly the sock puppetry rules, terms and conditions that all who come to Emptywheel agree to. And, hopefully, have the common decency, and grace, to adhere to.

            Since you cannot, and will not, you are done as far as I am concerned. You have appeared here, putatively, under, by my count, at least ten (10) different handles within the last year. And that is NOT counting the latest sock puppet you just tried to appear under.

            You are done now.

      • Evangelista says:

        In fact, a large number of homosexuals are Republicans.  When I was working amongst large numbers of them, some years ago, the prevailing ‘rule’ among them was “Keep your preferences in your own community”.  By this they meant both don’t go out trying to seduce hetros, and, to hetros, leave us alone and mind your own damn business.  In those days the problem was the homo community’s, that the hetros were preoccupied with trying to smoke-out who was homo and interfere with them and their personal community activities.  Today the problem is the hetro community’s, with the homo having accepted the “outing” the hetro was attempting to force, and forcing it (what the hetro seemed before to be insisting on) on the hetro.

        I preferred the old way, without the aggressive sticking of sexual preferences into others’ faces, but I recognize that what the upset are bothered by now is only what they, the silently inactive condoning, by their condoning asked for, and that the actively harassing, with the support of the silently condoning, brought into being.  The world today is what you made it to be, as will be the world of tomorrow, the aggressively faggot, the viciously violent, the water poisoning, the atmosphere depleting, the you and all like you hating and all.  Get used to it, accept it, learn to live with it.

        • bmaz says:

          What in the living hell is wrong with you?? This is not a “them” and “they” place. Get out of here with that bigoted “old way” bullshit. Also, seriously, rethink your position.

          This is NOT who and what we are here, and you need to either rethink or get the hell out. Come on.

          • Evangelista says:

            bmaz,

            The “fags'” (their term for themselves then) “old way” was not bigoted.  They were more accepting of the “other” than those of the society around theirs, which was bigoted toward them (and a variety of others).

            What my comment was an attempt to point out was (1) that a substantial number of those those working around me were politically conservative (but not radical right-wing), even while being ‘liberal’ in regard to causes, human differences and life-style choices (some of them), (2) that aggressive response is product of aggressive attack;  In other words, bigots, venting their bigotry aggressively bring into being what they bring focus to through their aggressions, and bring counter-aggression responses, creating open conflict by their ventings, where no conflicts existed before, or were perceived, by those the bigots vented against, to be necessary, and (3) this phenomenon, of gratuitous bigoted ventings of bigots’ irritating aggressions, is not confined to exaggerating the minor human component of sexual inclination into a societal fabric rending problem, but has the same effect, creating conflicts and eruptions where unnecessary, in all areas where the ventings are encouraged or not discouraged.

            What I wrote appears to have again gone over your head.  This, I hope, you will find more comprehensible.

        • John Casper says:

          Evangelista, how do you know that “large number of homosexuals are Republicans?”

          Thanks in advance.

    • Desider says:

      So Hillary makes you afraid, but an abusive corrupt rich guy with a hot temper and no plans inspires hope for your children.

      When you think of a vagina, do you – like Boy George – see a large black spider?

      [to the Alabaman of the letter, not you above]

  2. Paul says:

    So I’m a racist because I didn’t want to empower a war criminal?   Hillary does make me afraid, not because she has a vagina, but a perchant to prove she has a penis.  How can anyone watch what is happening in Syria, Honduras, Libya and not be afraid for the idea of what if those were your children?  Keep chasing the boogeyman Uncle Ed.  Keep supporting apartheid in Isreal Uncle Ed.  I’ll believe in the people who have love for all.  Most Americans do besides your accusatory rhetoric.

    • P J Evans says:

      Yes YOU ARE.

      What did you think was going to happen when you voted for the shitgibbon?
      He’s going to kill a lot of people IN THE US. Because it’s all about what makes him feel good right that minute. He doesn’t know anything else.

      And YOU VOTED FOR HIM.

       

      • Paul says:

        NO I DIDN’T VOTE FOR HIM!  BUT I DIDN’T VOTE FOR HILLARY EITHER.  I voted Jill Stein.  So lecture me now for caring about humanity.  And thank you for your future predictions on Trump killing people in the US.  I do believe there is a person who has killing on her resume.  What did you think when you voted for a war criminal?  American lives are more important than real lives? I guess blue lives matter more to you more than black lives to according to your exceptionist theories

    • bevin says:

      Let me add: if Uncle Ed thinks that the people who sponsored the Ukrainian fascist government and who were responsible for the war in Libya-in which massacres of black Africans were featured- and who armed the takfiri militias which wipe out Christian, Shia, yazidi populations wherever they find them, and who are responsible for the carnage in Honduras as well sas the blatant election rigfing in Haiti, are not racists it can only be because their hatred of common humanity knows no racial bounds.

  3. Winter Orion says:

    Uncle Ed is right to oppose racism.  Uncle Ed  would also be more helpful if  he resisted his poorly-disguised patronizing on this issue. If Uncle end wants to help, Uncle Ed could also ratchet down the preaching to others whose hierarchy of evils-to-be-fought may not exactly match his own.

    People see that there’s evil running loose in the land so they have to choose priorities and focus energies. We have, as others noted above,  killed and maimed at least hundreds of thousands of innocents abroad. Ironically, the death and destruction are without regard to race, creed, or color. For national security? that pretense is hardly any longer even advanced.

     

  4. Ambrellite says:

    It irks me that many Trump voters who hate him, but voted in protest of HRC don’t acknowledge there were three other options that would have allowed them to vote against both Trump and HRC (Stein, Johnson, and write-in). Third parties don’t win, sure, but if you accept that you won’t be represented by any candidate on the ballot, why not vote for somebody you largely agree with?

    • Peterr says:

      Because it helps install Trump in the Oval Office?

      Purity is nice for a moment, but it does come with a cost — and it’s a cost everyone (not just the voter) has to pay.

      If you don’t like the names at the top of the ticket, you damn well better work hard to get better names elected down the ballot, so that next time around, the names at the top are better than what you had to choose from.

  5. Evangelista says:

    Dear Uncle Ed (And everyone else who blathers the term “racist”),

    EVERYONE IN THE WORLD is “racist”.  Everyone in the world is ethi-centric and culturally preferential.  All of these characteristics are fundamental products of nature and nurture, both of which, together, instill a centric-base world-view, the center of which is the family and community culture in which and in connections to which initial intellectual impressions are formed.  No human being has control over his or her racism, or cultural-centricism.  What they can control is their tolerance for exo-community others.   You can help othrs to this by lowering threat-thresholds, and keeping them low.  As the emergent racism of “Black Lives Matter” demonstrates, in spades, rise of threat-level produces a commensurate rise in racism and aggression-response.

    Making a big deal of “racism”, you increase racism.  You increase racial intolerance. You decrease tolerance.  You increase antagonism and aggression, you foment war.

    • Peterr says:

      Shorthand here . . .

      Racism is the product of prejudice and power. Granting for the sake of your argument that all people have prejudices, power is not equally shared.

      By this definition, only the oppressors in power can be racists. The oppressed cannot, and equating prejudice with racism is yet another tool to normalize and excuse racism, making the oppressed even more marginalized by seeking to reduce or dismiss their critique of the powerful.

      Making a big deal of racism — without the scare quotes, please — is the only way to deal with racism.

      The lunch counters were not integrated by asking politely. Public accommodations were not integrated by waiting outside for someone to open the door. Schools were not desegregated by simply saying “we want in.”

      Long and noisy legal battles have had to be fought, with lawyers for the oppressed naming the racism for what it is. Loud and angry marches have had to be organized, with speakers and commentators on the side of justice naming the racism for what it is. Boycotts and protests and public shaming have had to be conducted, with all manner of oppressive racists acts called out for what they are.

      Making a big deal of racism is how the oppressed call out for justice, and how society works to make that justice a reality.

      • Evangelista says:

        Peterr,

        Your writing, above, was in reference to unequal treatment of others, not racism.

        The inequality you reference was the inequality of “Jim Crow”, which was an artificial inequality imposed by laws.  It was a politically defined inequality.  It was product of reverse-oppression in the so-called “Reconstruction Era”, which reverse-oppression, while satisfying to the aggressive in positions to force it, created a backlash.  The so-called “civil Rights Movement” was a backlash against the backlash.  Today we have “Black Lives Matter”, which is another backlash, and which is overtly ‘racist’, being ‘blacks only’ and specifically not oriented to integration or living together resolution, but to separation and enhancement of the antagonisms created by the preceding backlashes and the “Civil Rights Movement” coercion created backlash against coerced ‘integration’.

        Note that the U.S. Constitution is law for all in the U.S. government and is not racist law (even ‘owned persons’ were not defined by races). The racism in U.S. law was added by those not authorized to.

        No, there are no solutions.  Once these pendulums are set in motion by the first stupid aggressions the harmonics of the swings generate their own enhancing kinetics and the ends are inevitable destructions.

        • Peterr says:

          Please don’t try to tell me what my writing was in reference to.

          Let me try again, with short sentences and action verbs.

          Racism is about power. Prejudice is about biases. Racism is what you get when prejudice is enshrined in law, regulation, and corporate behavior.

          In the days of slavery, racism showed itself at the port when blacks were unloaded from the ships, at the auction block when they were sold, and in the fields when they labored.

          In the days of Jim Crow, racism showed itself on the rails when blacks could serve as porters but not be seated in every car of the train, when water fountains were labeled “white” and “colored”, and when literacy tests and poll taxes were used to target blacks.

          In today’s world, racism shows itself in mortgage sales practices that charge African-Americans higher interest rates than whites, when police carry out “investigative” traffic stops against African-Americans at rates far higher than whites, and when African-American communities are left to fend for themselves in the midst of problems caused by and deepened by the Powers That Be.

          Exhibit A: Flint MI – 56.6% black and 41.2% in poverty.

          If instead of Flint dealing with lead problems, we were talking about a lily-white wealthy suburb, do you think that we’d still be waiting for pipes to be replaced and permanent fixes to be in motion two and a half years after the first problems emerged?

          No, there are no solutions.

          If that’s what you believe, then please cease your comments here. If there are no solutions, then just lock yourself in a closet and don’t bother with anyone or anything outside your own door. If there are no solutions, then go ahead and cheer on the racists since there’s no hope of reining in their actions. It doesn’t matter anyway, right?

          Racism is not solely about law. It is about power, which is manifested in all kinds of ways.

          And racism is real.

        • John Casper says:

          Evangelista, two days ago on this thread you claimed “large numbers of homosexuals are Republicans.”
          I asked how you knew that.
          Why haven’t you responded?

        • John Casper says:

          Evangelista, you wrote, “Note that the U.S. Constitution is law for all in the U.S. government and is not racist law (even ‘owned persons’ were not defined by races).”

          Do you have evidence–that includes a link–that 100% European-Americans were bought and sold on auction blocks?

          “Slave Auction, 1859”

          http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/slaveauction.htm

  6. John Casper says:

    Paul,

    1. You voted for Jill Stein and you support a guy who denies climate change?

    You wrote “How can anyone watch what is happening in Syria, Honduras, Libya and not be afraid for the idea of what if those were your children?”

    2. Trump will save them?

    Do you have a link?

    “Keep chasing the boogeyman,” Paul.

    You wrote “Keep supporting apartheid in Isreal Uncle Ed.”

    3. Trump is opposed to Zionism?

    Do you have a link?

    Paul, you wrote, “I’ll believe in the people who have love for all.”

    So you love Ed?

    4. Paul, where is Trump on torture?

    • Paul says:

      Not sure how it comes off that I support Trump.  I do understand why people are emotional.  But with your questions I don’t see a big difference between Trump or Hillary on those specific items.  Hillary yes to fracking, she may have “said” no domestically to pander but has supported it globally while at state.  Hillary will not save the misery she created in Libya, Honduras, or Syria but since Trump has been positioned to be president there has been a cease fire that’s been holding.  I love Ed, I would love to see democrats unite about what they could do instead of simply claiming we need to stop the republicans because democrats can run the same neolberal policies they do only better.  Trump supports torture just as Hillary does, Benghazi fiasco.

      So the message I want to say is that I DON’T support Trump.  I will support anyone that believes in humanity for all.  Hillary was not that person.  So get over it and press the democrats to nominate someone with a differing stance than republicans.  Bernie was that guy.  But democrats wanted Hillaries dirty “Victory Fund” money and they sold their constituents out.
      Actions speak louder than words!

      • wayoutwest says:

        Clintonites are probably too hysterical and conditioned to understand that you and others can support some maybe many of the things Trump has planned without the cult of personality worship that they display for the Red Queen.

        The groupthink firmly embedded in the Clintonite’s jabbering from  their soapboxes along with the reports of violence at the inauguration don’t bode well for their recovery because admitting any positive change coming from the Trump regime would force them to examine why they have a big L stamped on their foreheads.

         

      • John Casper says:

        Paul,

        wayoutwest just said you have a “big L stamped” on your forehead.

        Gonna let him get away with that?

        • Paul says:

          John, really?  That’s how you inteperet that response?  If you would like some help decoding, maybe Trump University has some seats open.  I believe what the comment means is that Trump didn’t win, but the democrats lost the election.  Never thought that a republican could win the presidency after W. Bush, but the dems found a way.  But they’ll keep insisting it was there messaging instead of their policies.  Enjoy the cool-aid John, and we’ll end up with 8 years of Trump.

  7. Ed Walker says:

    Several of these comments say voting for HRC would be horrifying because she is a terrible hawk.

    1. You had other choices if you loathe her, as noted by P.J. Evans.

    2. Clinton is a bog standard Democrat hawk, well inside the mainstream of US foreign policy. There is at least the possibility that she could be deterred from the worst excesses of Dem. hawkishness.

    3. Your assertion that the vengeful narcissist surrounded by Republican hawks and sociopath billionaires seeking their personal gain will do less damage is impossible to take seriously. The idea that the ignorant and self-important Trump will keep any promise or stick to any policy is risible. The idea that the party that gave us Dick Cheney will take into account the interests of anyone outside this country other than for money … I am at a loss for words.

    4. Trump wanted a Soviet-era style military parade for his inauguration. He casually talks about using nuclear weapons. You can’t seriously say he’s a plausible alternative to normal politics in the form of Clinton.

  8. John Casper says:

    wayoutwest,

    Is “a big L stamped” on your forehead?

    Is the Trump cult of personality worship and groupthink so “firmly embedded” in you that you are “hysterical?”
    It doesn’t “bode well” for your “recovery” that you “jabber” on from your “soapbox,” playing the victim card with rumors of “violence” at his inauguration.

    Trump stopped TPP, but how long before Republicans impeach him and pass it? Doesn’t Pence already have the cabinet he wants?

    What other “positive change” do you see coming from a Trump’s billionaire cabinet? Talk in terms of results, things he can actually accomplish. Provide links to support your claims.

  9. John Casper says:

    wayoutwest,

    Will Trump support Warren Mosler’s health care proposal?

    Everyone gets $5,000 in a medical debit card on January 1 each year to spend on health care.
    $1,000 is for preventative care, and the other $4,000 is for all other health care needs.
    If you need more than that you are covered by a form of Medicare.
    At year end you get the unused portion of the $4,000 as a gift with no strings attached.
    You are free to buy any private insurance or medical plan you wish.

    I used those particular numbers as a reasonable starting point for discussion.  Children under 18 would be covered by Medicare and not participate in this plan. I don’t want to give parents a cash incentive to not take their children to the doctor.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/warren-mosler/a-progressive-health-care_b_521651.html

    If the federal government can afford $193 trillion in free derivative insurance, why not Mosler’s proposal?
     From the Comptroller of the Currency:
     
    “The notional amount of derivative contracts held by insured U.S. commercial banks and savings associations in the first quarter increased by $12.0 trillion (6.6 percent) to $192.9 trillion from the previous quarter (see table 10).” 
     
    https://www.occ.gov/topics/capital-markets/financial-markets/derivatives/dq116.pdf
     
    1.2       For perspective, annual U.S. GDP—Gross Domestic Product—is around $18 trillion. 
     
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/263591/gross-domestic-product-gdp-of-the-united-states/
     
    1.2.1     “Congressional appropriations to the Pentagon from 2001-2016 have totaled more than $8.5 trillion.” 
     
    http://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/economic/budget/pentagon
     
    1.2.2      Social Security’s Trust fund is around $2.3 trillion. 
     
    http://crfb.org/blogs/general-revenue-social-security-trust-funds

  10. Ron says:

    Phew. Well, I liked it, Ed. Thank you.

    I’ve also struggled with understanding what Trump voters mean when they say why they voted for him. There was a caller on C-SPAN today saying that maybe now (after the inauguration) we can stop being a racist nation. Did electing a black president make us a racist nation?

    It reminds me of the old days. I mean it’s a bit like being high and listening to Firesign Theater. With Trump voters you can’t believe what you’ve heard or read. Do they really believe what they’re saying or is it a joke?

    Last night Trump said to his supporters that he and they could no longer “accept what was happening.” Obama cut unemployment by more than half; more than doubled the value of the stock market, and restored the housing and auto industries. These are typically the things Republicans would celebrate. What’s different about Obama?

    Anyway.

    Democrats won the popular vote, but they still need to win back some state houses to unrig Republican gerrymandering and stop any attempt to impose term limits, which will make Koch money even more effective than it already is.

  11. John Casper says:

    Paul, “really? That’s how you inteperet that response? If you would like some help decoding, maybe Trump University has some seats open.”

    “Enjoy the (sic)cool-aid Paul, and we’ll end up with” 7.9 years of Pence.

    What do you think of Warren Mosler’s health care proposal?

    Can Jill Stein win in ’20?

    • Paul says:

      Well John now your thinking.  Medicare for all sounds like a policy that all would agree, progressives and rural folk.  Now you get it!  Work together on policies that benefit all people.  Will Jill Stein win in 2020?  No.  Will the opposition party realize how to save the day?  Not if you keep believing they care about you instead of their campaign coffers because you will not hold them accountable because they have a letter in front of their name.  If they offer real policies without having MSM stenograph what their corporate sponsors want us to believe are the parameters for a “pragmatic” solutions to real problems.  So thank you John and let’s work with the racists to ameliorate our issues.  They are unhappy too and are about to be bamboozled like Obama bamboozled us.  Now we will unite and finally vote common sense.  Thank you Emptywheel and all others that help us bypass the MSM to not vote against our own interests.

      • John Casper says:

        “Well” Paul, “now (sic)your” showing how you don’t “get it.”

        Mosler’s proposal isn’t Medicare-for-all.

        You wrote, “Work together on policies that benefit all people.”

        Name one.

        So you, bevin, wayoutwest, and Evangelista all support Trump, while hoping he’s impeached so you can get Pence?

        Do I have that right?

        If not, why is that none of you ever takes any issue with what the other says?

        Paul, in your initial comment in this thread you wrote, “Most Americans do besides your accusatory rhetoric.”

        Pretty well constructed sentence.

        In your last comment, you don’t know the difference between your and you’re. Do you hand out your handle to others, or are you trying to “dummy-up” your comments?

  12. donald says:

    I think Trump is horrible and voted for Clinton as the lesser evil, but this post is just bog standard self righteousness.    You don’t convince people this way.   You can point out the bad things that Trump has said and the bad things he will no doubt do, but attacking well meaning but befuddled folk as racist just comes across as more of the attitude that led to Trump’s victory.  Lots of people have moral issues and they don’t all correspond to yours.  You can see that if you actually visit conservative blogs and read them.  I won’t make their cases, because I don’t agree, but I am not saying they are all racists.  Some clearly are.  Others aren’t.

    Trump made a lot of promises to bring back jobs and create a health care system that works for everyone.  He will almost certainly fail.  Point that out as it happens.  Hammer on it.

    The self described political pragmatists are the real moral purity freaks.  People used to understand that you win elections by persuading people to vote for a candidate for positive reasons.  Now it is a moral duty to vote the lesser evil.  Yeah, that worked great.

    • John Casper says:

      donald,

      You’re “on the clock.”

      You wrote, “you can see that if you actually visit conservative blogs and read them.”

      1. How long before you name all these conservative blogs and link to them?

      2. How long before you name one and link to it?

      3. How long before you link to one thread at each blog that confirms your claim?

  13. Paul says:

    Sorry John I didn’t know I was arguing with a fourth grader. But in your explanation of Mosler’s proposal you mentioned Medicare type coverage for people who have spent there allocation. You stated that children under 18 would also receive Medicare. So I will stop trying to agree and just pray. Maybe I could pray to receive more than a 1 percent raise, as markets grow way more but don’t trickle down, so as I could afford a computer with a real keyboard so auto correct doesn’t change you’re to your on my free phone. Oh, and when I state Medicare for all, the word all means everyone. You, me everybody!

    • John Casper says:

      “Sorry” Paul, “I didn’t know I was arguing with a fourth grader.”

      You wrote “Work together on policies that benefit all people.”

      I asked you to name one. Where is it?

      My “explanation of Mosler’s proposal” included the $193 trillion in free derivative insurance the federal government is giving away. Is that a policy that’s a “benefit to all people?”

      Where do you work?

      If you spent less time on blogs, could you get a 2% raise?

      “Pray as everything depended on God. Work as if everything depended on you.”
      St. Ignatius Loyola.

      What kind of phone do you have?

  14. Donald says:

    I am on the clock? Seriously?

    I read various blogs at the American conservative–Rod Dreher and Daniel Larison. I also read Pat Lang’s blog. What I have seen and no, I am not your trained monkey so you can read them for yourselves, is that some of the Trump voters in the comments voted for him for a wide variety of reasons. Some of them are obvious racists. Others are more like the Ron Paul antiwar types –they took Trump’s antiwar statements seriously. I don’t agree– Trump is self contradictory, but people believe what they want to believe. Still others are anti abortion and they think that is the defining moral issue. Some really believe Trump’s rhetoric about bringing manufacturing back. You could see that in some of the women interviewed by the NYT last week.

    You could actually learn all of this for yourself if you were curious.

    Incidently, neither Dreher nor Larison voted for Trump. I don’t think Lang did, but am not sure.

  15. Donald says:

    In fact, the irony of this post is that the woman cited was, I think, one of those in the NYT article last week. You could learn much more from reading that article than from reading this post. Some of the women were bigots, but others clearly were motivated in part by economic anxiety.

    • Ed Walker says:

      You might want to read the footnotes to the post, where I explain this post, and link to the NYT article.

      And so we are clear, reread this:

      Uncle Ed doesn’t know what’s in your heart. Uncle Ed doesn’t care. Uncle Ed cares about how you act. If you vote for a racist, if your vote emposers racists, then there is no functional difference between you and the most rabid KKK member in terms of the political outcomes for the outgroups. You are operationally a racist.

      The most that can be said is that you are willing to accept racism if it makes your life better. That’s how you defend your vote. You claim just you want a brighter future for yourself and your children. As you put it: “…our country was kind of at risk if we did elect Hillary.” Again, what makes you different from self-acknowledged racists?

      What about all the other minorities who will be harmed directly by installing racists in the White House and racism in Congress? You are willing to sacrifice all of them and their children. You are willing to deny them their claims to equal dignity and equal rights in whole or in part.

  16. Donald says:

    Final comment. Since I have criticized the original post, let me say what I think we should be doing. Basically, from what I see, Sanders is doing it. Point out the positive things Trump said he would do and when he fails miserably or does the exact opposite or picks people whose record suggests they will do the exact opposite,, point this out. The Trump supporters who really are motivated chiefly by racism won’t change, but if Democrats can focus onTrump’s failures and put forth programs that would help people in the Rust Belt and emphasize them, we could win back some of those voters. But ever since Nader a lot of online Democrats have adopted this idea that you change people’s minds by telling them how immoral they are if they don’t rank moral issues the same way the Democrats do. Being the lesser evil is supposed to be good enough. This approach can backfire. You should approach people assuming they are just as decent as you are, if not more so, and try to appeal to them on that basis. You should point out Trumps flaws, but you can do this without scolding the other person as evil.

    Of course some people are genuine racists. I suppose John Casper wants me to provide a link. With people like that, have at it. They voted for Trump hoping for the worst.

    • John Casper says:

      d/Donald, you commented to Ed at 7:51. He responded nine-minutes later.

      Twenty-minutes later, you hoist your white flag–“Final comment”–and ignore Ed’s.

      My 3:12 yesterday accomplishes exactly what you requested at 8:20. Why did you ignore it? If you’re a Sanders supporter, why aren’t you holding bevin, Evangelista, and wayoutwest accountable in this thread?

      Above you wrote, “I read various blogs at the American conservative….”

      Why don’t you comment on them?

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