Mueller Has More Discovery on Roger Stone Alone than the Entire Trump Campaign Turned Over

I want to compare a detail from a Roger Stone filing with the flyer that John Dowd released last year to snooker the press into believing that Trump had been more cooperative than any other President before (which I debunked here).

As one measure of Trump’s purported cooperation, Dowd bragged just over a year ago about how much the White House had reviewed and turned over and how much Trump’s campaign had turned over. He provided those numbers in pages.

In all, the White House provided over 20,000 pages to the Special Counsel in connection with the categories of material identified (over 100,000 pages of documents were reviewed by the White House).

[snip]

In all, over 1.4 million pages of documents were produced to the Special Counsel by the Campaign.

I made some effort last year to chase down what that number, 1.4 million, meant, but none of the people I asked were able to explain it.

Whatever the number means, however, it compares badly with what Mueller has collected on Stone. According to Stone’s lawyers, there are already 2.23 million pages of documents in discovery ready to go, with terabytes more still being prepared for review.

The defense’s ediscovery vendor identified approximately 2.23 million pages of “Load Ready” data provided by the government, including the “Hot Documents” identified, without warranty, by the government. There is approximately another 4.5 Terabytes of “Non-Load” ready data provided by the government that is in the process of being filtered and prepared for review.

The stuff still being filtered may be what FBI seized when they arrested Stone in January. If that’s right, it means that just on what Mueller had collected without raiding Stone’s home, he already had 35% more volume than the entirety of what the Trump campaign congratulated itself for turning over to Mueller.

Admittedly, the “hot documents” — the ones that go to the core of the case — are likely a far smaller subset (and will overlap to the extent that people on the campaign, like Steve Bannon, were talking to Stone about WikiLeaks releases). But the numbers at least put some perspective on how much smoke John Dowd was blowing last year when he pretended that his client was being all that forthcoming with the Special Counsel.

As I disclosed last July, I provided information to the FBI on issues related to the Mueller investigation, so I’m going to include disclosure statements on Mueller investigation posts from here on out. I will include the disclosure whether or not the stuff I shared with the FBI pertains to the subject of the post. 

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47 replies
  1. RWood says:

    This raised an as-yet unsolved question with me.

    “Admittedly, the “hot documents” — the ones that go to the core of the case — are likely a far smaller subset (and will overlap to the extent that people on the campaign, like Steve Bannon, were talking to Stone about WikiLeaks releases).”

    Bannon seems to have faded into the bushes when for some time his name was mentioned almost regularly in relation to the Mueller investigation. Is he still considered a subject/participant/target/co-conspirator, or has he somehow managed to escape? I keep thinking of that once popular oval office photo where almost everyone pictured, save Drump, has now been indicted.

    Should we dismiss Bannon as ‘the one who got away’, or are there things yet to come?

      • GusGus says:

        Very good points.

        I haven’t noticed very much of Bannon this past year, he is keeping a very low profile it seems. Are his 15 minutes of fame up? Or is the low profile intentional as he hopes to avoid an indictment?

        • RWood says:

          My WAG here, but I’m thinking he was either smart enough to cover his tracks, or he screwed up bigly somewhere to the point that Mueller is saving him for the final act.

          • BobCon says:

            My guess is that his case has been spun off to another unit.

            I suspect a lot has been spun off to other units, and Barr’s job at this point is to minimize the damage those investigations do while everyone is hung up on Mueller.

            • RWood says:

              I’m still on the fence as to Barr. The more I read the more I think we may have a case of the conned being conned. His son being in the white house is something many point to as proof he’s on team Drump, but what better way to have your own inside man?

              • Tech Support says:

                Yup. That we can plausibly construct Barr as a former-spook-old-guard-GOP-mole in the house of Trump is enough for me to hang my hopes on it.

                I think I’ve already said this here, but there is an argument that impeachment is the best chance the GOP has of keeping either of the Senate or the WH in 2020.

                • Barry says:

                  I disagree. The Base is still a very, very dangerous thing, and a Trump will – not happily, but angrily – take everybody down with him.

                  The GOP’s best bet (short of a heart attack) is to run as best as each can, take their hits and let the Donald sink while showing conspicuous support.

              • Pat says:

                William Barr is an old alum from G.H.W. Bush’s administration, which probably means he’s a backstabber of the highest order.

                Whose back he is going to stab, and when he will stab it, are the questions. That he will stab someone in the back is not, really.

                • orionATL says:

                  i’m of the opinion that attn’y general william barr should not be trusted in any way on any aspect of the mueller/office of special counsel work any further than you could throw the portly lad.

                  i expect barr to be partisan in the extreme and, based on past behavior, to justify his extreme partisan behavior with mouthfuls of legal mumbo-jumbo about, e.g., executive privilege, article II, nation security needs, classification standards and rules, office of legal counsel opinions, and any other useful sources for excuses for burying the osc work six feet under.

                  • RWood says:

                    Partisan for sure, but to which party? Is he there for the old GOP, or the party of Drump? If I were putting money on this I’d lean toward him sacrificing Drump to save the old guard, even if it cost them in the short run.

                    • GusGus says:

                      “Partisan for sure, but to which party? Is he there for the old GOP, or the party of Drump?”

                      Exactly!

                      Now why exactly did Barr send an unsolicited opinion on obstructionist of justice to the Trump admin? Why exactly did a 69 year old Barr seek out a position with the Trump admin? Why would Barr at this point in his career come back to the same position he held 30 years before?

                      In his senior years did he become an protectionist xenophobe and by into Trumpism?

                      Why would the man who invited Robert Mueller to the weddings of his two daughters come back to be Mueller’s supervisor?

                      I think you might be onto something with

                      ” The more I read the more I think we may have a case of the conned being conned. “

      • Growe says:

        I recently heard several media sources mention that Bannon is now working in Brussels promoting his Ayn Rand version of what a healthy nation looks like. He’s apparently working with Farage of Brexit infamy with some of the more populist governments like Italy, Hungary and Poland and with parties like France’s insidious “Front National” and Italy’s Five Star nutjobs.
        Isn’t that fun?

    • harpie says:

      Bannon is described as a “High Ranking Trump campaign official” in the Stone indictment. This is for 10/7/16:
      *
      [quote] [WL] released the first set of emails stolen from the Clinton Campaign chairman [John Podesta]. Shortly after [WL’s] release, an associate [Malloch] of [Bannon] sent a text message to STONE that read “well done.” In subsequent conversations with senior Trump Campaign officials, STONE claimed credit for having correctly predicted the October 7, 2016 release. [end quote]
      *
      So Mueller has evidence that an associate of Trump campaign official Bannon gives Stone credit for the timing of that release. https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/01/27/two-details-many-are-missing-in-about-the-stone-indictment/
      *

      • RWood says:

        I remember this: “Neither Eliason nor McCarthy account for one of the only new details in the indictment, showing that an unidentified Steve Bannon associate congratulated Stone on October 7.”

        That made me think that they (the SOC) had only a vague connection tying Bannon to the message sent to Stone. Hence my “covered his tracks” comment. If they have something more solid, then I guess I’m hoping for option two, and that he’s about to star in the grand finale.

    • emptywheel says:

      There is abundant reason to believe Bannon cooperated, repeatedly.
      Whether that means he’d be excluded from any conspiracy charge, I don’t know. I doubt he’d be included, though, unless there was a big Cambridge Analytica angle.

  2. Mister_Sterling says:

    Back on Christmas Eve, I was feeling pretty good about Trump being a lame duck president who will probably be facing SDNY prosecution once he is out of office. Now, with Trump rightfully bashing Cohen, Manafort getting a small prison sentence (with at least one more to follow, thankfully), and the Democrats busy ripping their freshman Congresswomen and forgetting impeachment altogether, I am depressed again. Maybe we get Mueller’s report this month. But at this stage, what does it matter? Trump is winning at de-legitimizing the whole investigation.

    • Pete says:

      That’s what Dems do, but:
      1) Give the Frosh time, they will prevail if for no other reason they will live longer.
      2) Don’t underestimate SDNY.
      3) I still have faith in Cummings, Nadler, Schiff, and yes even Maxine Waters.
      4) Have faith in the States especially NY State.
      5) Mueller is a piece, but not the only one now.
      6) Easter and Passover are right around the corner.

      • RWood says:

        All good points, but I’m back to the time vs damage equation. These investigations take time, and every day they go on is another day for Drump to inflict more damage. While they spend months turning over every rock, the courts get packed with more right-wing judges, more agencies get gutted, and more division is sown.

        On the wall over my desk is a post-it that reads: “Done is better than perfect.” What good is impeachment if it comes a month before election day? Do they need evidence to make it politically possible to impeach? Yes. But do they need all of it?

        I don’t know, but I hope the answer is no.

    • Doug R says:

      Well, the Democrats managed to craft a resolution basically condemning all hate from the beginning of time which wasn’t hateful enough for 23 Republicans and Nazi buddy Steve King.
      64% think trump committed crimes before running for president, yet support for impeachment is still only in the 40s, up from the 30s only a few months ago.
      I think the strategy is to keep shovelling evidence out in public and eventually the public will will be there. If Whitewater and Benghaaaaazi taught us anything, you need the public behind you or you lose ground.

    • Jaycee says:

      Have faith, Mr. S. It could be possible that there is more involved here than we are aware of. Remember that Mueller was able to get a conviction against Gotti, so that gives me hope.

  3. Badger Robert says:

    Mueller needs an outlet. And the outlet has to open soon, before Barr and Rosenstein can forge a report. Right now the SCO is part of the secrecy and concealment. Only a privileged few know the extent of the destruction.
    Barr is going to use Iran/Contra strategies on these problems and the pardons will go out in the lame duck period after November 2020.

    • JamesJoyce says:

      Bingo!

      “Barr is going to use Iran/Contra strategies on these problems and the pardons will go out in the lame duck period after November 2020.”

      Deja Vu!

      This is why Barr is there. Few recall the butchering of Nuns and Priest by Contras. They probably kept a few of Iran bound guns and made utility of them. Class acts we have here…

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair#Pardons

      “On 24 December 1992, nearing the end of his term in office, President George H. W. Bush pardoned[99] five administration officials who had been found guilty on charges relating to the affair. They were:

      Elliott Abrams;
      Duane Clarridge;
      Alan Fiers;
      Clair George; and
      Robert McFarlane.
      Bush also pardoned Caspar Weinberger, who had not yet come to trial.[100]”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Barr

      “William Pelham Barr is an American attorney who is the current United States Attorney General. Barr previously served in this position from 1991 to 1993 under the George H. W. Bush administration, and returned to the post in 2019 under the Trump administration.”

      And we thought the Nazis were corrupt? Time wormholes do exist.

    • JamesJoyce says:

      Bingo!

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair#Pardons

      “On 24 December 1992, nearing the end of his term in office, President George H. W. Bush pardoned[99] five administration officials who had been found guilty on charges relating to the affair. They were:

      Elliott Abrams;
      Duane Clarridge;
      Alan Fiers;
      Clair George; and
      Robert McFarlane.
      Bush also pardoned Caspar Weinberger, who had not yet come to trial.[100]”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Barr

      “William Pelham Barr is an American attorney who is the current United States Attorney General. Barr previously served in this position from 1991 to 1993 under the George H. W. Bush administration, and returned to the post in 2019 under the Trump administration.”

      Short memories afflict most. Inconvenient truths not wanted to be heard and time wormholes for sure.

  4. orionATL says:

    if volume means anything then roger stone is a key to the case. this would make sense in light of his long, allegedly close association with president trump, with stone’s genius for malevolent political cheating honed by decades-long involvement in republican campaign and election cheating, and with trump’s habit of keeping himself one sleezeball’s distance from corrupt activities he is involved in, e.g?, f. sater.

  5. BobCon says:

    Dowd’s number was always BS because in an organization like the White House with a ton of SOPs you will get enormous numbers of emails generated to all kinds of people just to get coffee delivered to a meeting.

    That doesn’t mean there is no evidence at all in the stuff he turned over, but I have little doubt there are thousands of emails between Reince Priebus and a dozen assistants going over the seating arrangements for a luncheon with minor donors Trump cancelled because he wanted to watch Hannity on his TIVO.

    Stone is just one guy. He can only generate so much minutia by himself, and I suspect there is good stuff buried on his drives, alhough what that is, I don’t know. Even if he kept fifty different drafts of every book he ever wrote, that’s still only a fraction of what’s there.

    • orionATL says:

      roger stone is only one guy, but a very special guy:

      with 40 years doing dirty campaign tricks
      with 40 years knowing trump
      with 40 years knowing paul manafort
      whose associate andrew miller the osc is chasing all the way to the supreme court

      don’t minimize his importance based on ew’s admittedly sketchy numbers intended only to set up a discussion?

      • orionATL says:

        as for all the unaccounted for 10xxx bytes, they may well be ol’ rog’s videos of swinging good times held for purposes of …. well, you know.

      • BobCon says:

        Oh, he’s a big deal. I’m saying the number of pages means a lot more when it’s one person’s workload than it does for the entire White House.

        I have little doubt Dowd is talking about a transfer containing a lot of BS to maximize his numbers. Stone’s drives are a fuller set, although we don’t know what he managed to destroy or hide off site.

  6. viget says:

    I know most on here know this, but, just for scale, a terabyte is 1 trillion bytes (well actually 2^40 bytes, which is pretty close(1.1 trillion). As comparison, a feature length film is maybe 5 GB, 8 GB if you want real high def. So 4.5 TB is almost 900 feature length films worth of data. War and Peace is 3.1 MB, so that would be a little over 1 million copies of War and Peace.

    The only other thing that I can think of that would be that large (other than MONTHS of surveillance videos), would be a truly massive database (some can be peta or exabytes big (2^50 or 2^60 bytes)).

    Hmmmm………..

    • JVO says:

      I bet the PornHub database is 1 million times larger than Roger’s – and that’s excluding duplicate entries! ;-)

    • P J Evans says:

      Try some genealogy databases. My main file runs about 250MB – without all the image files, which are another 30GB. (For each version. I’m trying to merge them.) That’s 50 to 60 thousand people – I can only imagine what the LDS database is like.

    • Tech Support says:

      My understanding is (and lawyers here will straighten me out if wrong) that depositions are recorded on video. So for example, if you think about the prior reporting about how many hours of interviews that Manafort participated in, and then imagined that as (even compressed) video files… that’s probably a substantial fraction of the overall data footprint of collected evidence.

      Then from the business of e-mail management, one thing that often clogs up the allocated storage is file attachments that are being passed back and forth between individuals while collaborating or being spammed out. I worked for a shop once in the early zeroes where we figured out that something like 20% of the entire corporate email store belonged to PowerPoint presentations being passed back and forth internally within the marketing department.

      • bmaz says:

        No, deposed are not presumed to be videotaped. And most still are not. It is, however, getting more prevalent.

    • andy says:

      Programmer here. I too found that pretty surprising. They don’t clarify what they mean by “text”, which is typically a very compact file format. Scanned pdfs of pages will be much larger than e.g. a native Word doc, but I would presume part of the ingestion process is to OCR them back to searchable/indexable text, which would make them small again.

      As a quick experiment I generated about 10 pages of random English words and saved as a Word doc, and it broke down thusly:
      ~5,000 words
      ~36,000 characters
      File size: 30 KB

      So scaling that example up, 1 TB of Word doc yields about 36 million pages and 180 billion words. But this is a very artificial example of course.

      FYI Pornhub publishes some end-of-year statistics which are pretty interesting. They transferred 4,400 Petabytes of data in the year 2018, among other staggering stats. (Can’t find link, but google “pornhub database size”).

    • e. a. f. says:

      not knowing a gig a bit from a mosquito bite, this was very informative. This I can understand, comparing it to feature films. thank you!

  7. JamesJoyce says:

    Truthful comments need not be censored. I’m certain slavocracy censored discussion about abolition in the South. It was not in their self interest to discuss these issues as it is most certainly is in a nation’s interest to discuss these issues….

    What is this fox news?

    • InfiniteLoop says:

      Please don’t be flippant about the actual censorship that happened in the Civil War era.

      One of my ancestors was murdered over his support for freed blacks…at the encouragement of the Klansman editor of the local paper.

      • Democritus says:

        That was brave and a good thing to do. Man our country sometimes, but people like your ancestor are the helpers, the silver lining and what we can have flourish assuming people aren’t stuck at like the bottom level of Maslow hierarchy of needs.

  8. Vinnie Gambone says:

    Until such time as it is disproven I am holding onto hope Cohen’s stash includes payments/ knowledge showing Trump and his people paid off ” Katie Johnson” and I will continue to call trump the pedophile president. Keep in mind the timing alleged in this case is 1994. It is close enough in time to 1992 when he made an on camera comment about a young girl on a trump tower escalator that “In ten years I’ll be dating her.’ … proof, to me he was and does looks at young women with a pedophile’s eyes. It’s enough for any father to want to knock his teeth out. I fear more than any of this other stuff that this is the charge “they” fear is too much for the country to absorb and “they” are actively ignoring it to protect our pedophile president. Sickening. Has one reporter ever even asked Trump about his orgy island days ? Yank his fat ass into congressional hearings on human trafficking. I guess our congress only cares if it is non americans being trafficked. I’d be very interested to know the timetable for when these two incidents line up with his trips to orgy island or to other epstein hangouts.

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