Three Things: ‘She’s Going to Go Through Some Things’

House Intelligence Committee released some materials provided to them by Lev Parnas, revealing Trump’s Ukraine scandal is even uglier than expected. Here’s three things the public now needs.

~ 3 ~

As Marcy noted in her post earlier today, the Department of Justice only reviewed the Memorandum of Telephone Conversation from Trump’s call to Ukraine’s President Zelensky on July 25 this past year, the one in which Trump said about Ambassador Yovanovitch, “She’s going to go through some things.”

Where is the full transcript of that call? There can be nothing in it at this point that the public and or its elected representatives shouldn’t know about.

Are there any other full transcripts of phone calls with Ukrainian officials similarly hidden away yet, even after the MEMCON for the July 25 call was released?

Attorney General Bill Barr’s handling of the investigation is now in question as well and should prompt a congressional investigation. Congress needs them in the event there is any exculpatory content in these transcripts.

Where is the July 25 transcript?

~ 2 ~

Trump attended the White House’s Hanukkah party in 2018, during which he had a side discussion with Lev Parnas and his associate Igor Fruman.

… During the party, Parnas and Fruman slipped out for a private meeting with Trump and Giuliani, two acquaintances who Parnas confided in told CNN. Parnas allegedly told his confidants after the meeting that the “big guy,” which is how he purportedly referred to the president, had assigned him and Fruman a “secret mission” to pressure Ukraine into investigating Biden and his son Hunter.

Parnas and Fruman were reportedly assigned to be Giuliani’s operatives on the ground in Ukraine. Parnas allegedly described it to at least one associate as a sort of “James Bond mission.” …

How does Parnas’ statement line up with the newly released material? Does it sync? Parnas has now said Trump knew everything, that “everybody was in the loop” — Trump, Pence, and more.

And did Rod Rosenstein see or hear anything at all since he was at the same party?

~ 1 ~

Elizabeth de la Vega asked a good question on Twitter last night.

Is there any relationship between Robert F. Hyde, the congressional candidate from Connecticut who is now embroiled in the Ukraine scandal, and Paul Manafort?

Both of them are from Connecticut.

Both of them are involved in construction – Manafort’s family owns a contracting firm specializing in demolition in Plainville CT and Hyde started a construction and landscaping firm based in Avon CT.

The two companies are located a little over 10 miles apart.

And Hyde has been embroiled in Trump’s Ukraine scandal.

What’s the connection, if any?

~ 0 ~

MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow landed an exclusive with Lev Parnas this evening, still underway even as I post this.

If you’re watching, what in this program seems new and important?

94 replies
  1. Rayne says:

    By the way, this is an open thread.

    On that note, Windows 7 users should already know their operating system is no longer supported.

    And the NSA published a cybersecurity advisory yesterday warning Windows 10 and Windows Server 2016/2019 users to deploy their Patch Tuesday update ASAP. The exploit is particularly worrisome.

    • P J Evans says:

      I updated my Win10 system right after I read about that. (I still like Win7 better than Win10, and XP better than either of those.)

      • orionATL says:

        ditto for win7 and xp.

        why does microsoft keep slapping their,users around?

        it can take employees of a business weeks or longer to adapt to a new computer system. whatever the quality of training, for the first few weeks there is nothing but employee confusion, error, and customer delay.

        this is the meaning and the power of having an “effective monopoly”.

    • e.a.f. says:

      That was very weird, last night my computer flashed up a thing which said my Windows 7 would no longer be supported and then went on to tell me I ought to purchase Windows 10 and then suggested a whole new computer–lap tops in the pictures. Hold on, if I bought a car and it was 10 yrs old the company has to continue to repair it if it breaks, etc.–support it. so why do computer companies or rather their soft ware get a pass. I like my old computer, its the first one in years which hasn’t imploded after 3 years. This is not what I’d call environmental, suggesting people purchase new computer equipment when the old stuff is working just fine. Not to mention a new desk top outfit is going to cost a bundle, well its Canada and I don’t use lap tops, they don’t like me.

      • P J Evans says:

        A lot of stuff that worked with Win7 won’t work with Win10. Including the games. (That can be fixed. I did it. I have Minesweeper again…) It’s possible you’ll need a new printer, or an updated driver for it.
        Shorter me: Win10 breaks a lot of stuff. It feels very much like it’s intended for corporate IT departments.

        • Eureka says:

          Welp, I was about to ask you how you’d adjusted to 10 but it sounds like it’s more like on-the-fly failures (oh, look, basic shit doesn’t work anymore). If you have transition advice, I’ll take it.

          • P J Evans says:

            LibreOffice is an acceptable replacement for MSOffice. (Word2007 works okay; Excel2007 has to reconfigure itself every effing time. Both have features that LibreOffice doesn’t. Maybe I should install Office2010, but I don’t know what that broke from 2007.)

            • Eureka says:

              I have 2010 Professional, and never adjusted to changes they made to Excel (from 2007). Lots of the simple programming tricks, glitches, and glitch-get-arounds are different. That’s the main change I recall, because it still lingers– was going to run some basic stats a few months ago (stuff that shouldn’t require separate stats software) and had to locate a new tip-sheet for the glitch workarounds. I suspect similar with Access but haven’t used it in awhile. Word, I managed through awhile ago, so don’t remember the pain.

              (By your comment, I infer that 2010 works with Win10, which was my biggest concern: a new Office would be tres cher.)

              • P J Evans says:

                I don’t know if 2010 works with Win10 – it’s just the most recent version I have. I tend to be a late adopter. (I think my Win98 machine is still running Office for Win3.11. Probably should upgrade it. Win2003 might work.)

              • Eureka says:

                I realized later that I was ~possibly comparing 2010 to an earlier version than 2007 (don’t recall the prior I had), so perhaps 2010 is not so different from what you’re using.

                • P J Evans says:

                  Probably Office 2003, which had a zillion buttons, but you could find stuff like tab settings without having to go to “help”. (I added tabs to the menu bar in 2007, since you can do that.)

      • Rayne says:

        You should have been receiving End of Life messages for the last 2-3 years. I know I had been — I shut off the warnings and made plans to migrate to a new device and OS two years ago.

        Unfortunately as long as the internet evolves, devices accessing it will also need to evolve along with the software driving them. You can still use your device — just don’t expect security on the internet.

        If you’re just surfing the internet, buy cheap Android tablets and expect them to last 2-3 years, toss and replace them on the regular. Total cost to operate will be about the same as a PC. Or buy a Chromebook device if you can do everything you need through a browser. Google will keep the browser up to date seamlessly and your device may last 3-5 years.

        • P J Evans says:

          I have a current computer for the internet, and I have older ones for the software that I need that doesn’t work with newer stuff.

          I’m considering getting an Android tablet, because some stuff I have will work with it (it worked with a Palm before).

      • skua says:

        Short version: If you have to move from 7 then try to get 8.2. A moderately skilful IT user should be able to help with this if needed.
        If that is not possible then consider if Linux Mint will run all the software you need on your current equipment. Linux took over 25 years to get easy enough for me to use it. I tried many times over the years and failed repeatedly. It is now IMO, for most people, easier to use than Windows.
        This does not mean it suits everyone however.

        • Rayne says:

          Yeah, that — I moved to 8.2 first. Not deliberately, though. The machine I bought was a bargain with 8.2 pre-installed. Ran the machine for a couple months as-is to test the device and then migrated to 10.

          10 isn’t that much of a change from 8.2. Plan to spend a LOT of time with 10 messing with settings with security in mind. Microsoft has a lot of pre-installed crapware like Xbox-related apps which must be deleted or turned off. Anything that can phone home to MSFT should be deleted or turned off unless absolutely necessary.

          CAUTIONARY NOTE: Install drivers and other non-MSFT software and then run non-MSFT antivirus/anti-malware *before* migrating any data files. I had an unpleasant experience during this portion of migration.

          I will *never* buy another HP printer again. Ever. Only Canon or Epson and only as long as they don’t use intellectual property to lock out non-OEM supplies.

          • P J Evans says:

            I had *one* HP printer. I went in to get ink and they had a multifunction Canon for less than the cost of the ink for the HP. Bought the Canon and took the HP to a recycling place. (That was with Win7. The printer can scan, but I’m not sure it will print with Win10.)

          • orionATL says:


            hp software is both intrusive and grasping. no wonder. i read once that hp got 1/4 of its earnings from ink sales.

            i have worked hard to get rid of or suppress hp software. i have not felt as successful as i usually am. i use system default for printing but hp intrudes with stoppages for ink tanks with ink still in them. o.k. i am a cheapskate, but the goddamned ink is expensive. i just spent ~$150 on hp ink. that was about half of the cost of the office pro. never hp ink again!

            • P J Evans says:

              I never had those problems, but I wasn’t buying ink online. What annoyed me was that the color cartridges died after six months, whether you used them or not. (95% of my printing is b/w.)

            • bmaz says:

              Orion – I use a different one in my office, but got one of these Brothers for our daughter. There is not color printing, though it is full color scanning, it is black and white laser for printing.

              Color is a mugs game, without a hugely expensive printer and cartridges, it just is nuts. And most color are ink jet, you want laser jet. Much cleaner.

              But if you are good with really good laser jet black and white, these are simply awesome. And the big toner cartridges are not totally cheap, but last forever unless you are printing a ton of stuff. The printers are not only good, but really last. For like $40 you can also buy the extended warranty. If “anything” goes bad, they, seriously, just give you a new one. I am not kidding!

              • orionATL says:

                thanks, bmaz. great tip. even more so when a large proportion of our printing is b&w.

                but my wife is a princess and must have the best ☺. plus she prints in color, bulletins, etc. for her organizations. so we have a hp officejet pro which does everything but cook. and takes up space.

                it occurs to me now though that with wifi swirling around our house negating cat6 we could have both a brother or samsung b&w (for which i am confident you could get refilled cartridges on amazon) and the damned monster.

                • P J Evans says:

                  I used to get refill kits for my old Canon inkjet. They worked as well as the brand-new ones, and the refills were much less expensive. But you have to be willing to do the work.

                • bmaz says:

                  They are so cheap and good, that may really be a decent idea. I rarely need color prints, but Mrs. bmaz has a very good one at her office in the rare occasion it is needed.

                • Eureka says:

                  Our Brother MFC is a color laser along with black and white ‘monster’ (scan fax copy whatever), and it has done us well. If you’re ever in the market for a different brand monster.

                  With ours, because they were popular enough to have lots of troubleshooting info out there, there is even a way to program it to not tell you the toner is gone after 5k pages or whatever it is (when you really have toner left). Tips to trick the MF…C!

                  • bmaz says:

                    Oh yeah. When it notifies me, I order a new cartridge. Can usually go a month or two before really having to change it. And I print a pretty fair amount.

                    • Eureka says:

                      Yep, I ordered one of the colors because of the notice, and it’s been _several_ months, still going on the old one.

      • orionATL says:

        the intellectual property laws need to be rewritten:

        microsoft, et al can not come on your property for any reason without written permission, to be renewed every 3-6. nor may it threaten to withhold any warranties, guarantees, sales, service, or options they offer due to refusal to renew.

        all downloads to be to a preselected, isolated part of disc storage. no inventory taking allowed of computer motherboard, cpu, discs or other storage, add-on cards, or peripherals.

    • drouse says:

      If you have ever heard that Win10 is spyware pretending to be an operating system, rest assured, it’s true. I upgraded my sister’s home office about a year and a half ago. During the initial setup screens, one was a opt out for a lot of privacy issues. Microsoft wanted it all. One was asking to send your typing to them. My reaction was that they were asking to install a keylogger. By default. Six months later I set up a laptop by the same manufacturer and that screen was gone. You would have to work really hard to convince me that they refrained from that behavior rather than stop asking for permission. If I were a medical or legal professional, I would think twice before using Win10.

      • P J Evans says:

        I replaced the computer, and had the people doing the work remove a couple of the “features” that MS is very proud of. Haven’t had problems, and since I have “update” set to non-automatic, I also don’t get a lot of notices.

    • MB says:

      My Windows 7 gave the support death-knell message this morning and then disappeared my desktop photo. Couldn’t get it back, but it allowed
      other photos to be picked. Odd, but everything else seems to work fine.

      • e.a.f. says:

        Thank you for all the information and advise. My actual computer box is a ‘lenovo’, the screen box is so old, its got one of those big backs on it. The key board is replaced every time coffee is spilt on it and the printer, never has been used. The screen is placed on it. couldn’t figure out how to put the ink thingee in. I use my computer for e-mails, reading different things, sending letters to the editor and reading political blogs. Don’t do finances on line or purchase on line or use windows or notepad or any of those things.

        I’m not keen on those small hand held computer things, like I-Pads, some of them are quite inexpensive, but I actually like to sit at a desk and write and read. I purchased one of those security packages, and that has worked. then they switched it to an empty box with directions, which drove me crazy, so a second one has not been installed although purchased. its some where in the house. One could say I use computer is a glorified typewriter with instant postal/deliver service.

        • P J Evans says:

          I use “Keyboard for Life” from Kensington. Spill-proof (or at least very spill resistant). I wore out the first but it took at least three years; I’m on the second, and have two more as backups. They’re not expensive.

        • thomasa says:

          When I was cashiered from the technocracy for the crime of being 54 YO, I bought a Mac powerbook to replace my windows machine that work required. That was 2002. I subsequently made myself sufficiently unpopular with the Bushies that I couldn’t get on a plane in a timely manner.

          I have not used anything connected to the internet that runs any microsquish product. I installed Open Office on my Mac and rarely use it. When I send people messages they are written on a text editor and sent in rtf. format. I do not open docx even .doc files but view them in preview. I am careful about where and when I carry my smart phone. I have turned off every service on the few apps I use that could conceivably give me away. I’m looking for a Faraday shield I can put my smart phone into in which it won’t ring when called. I haven’t found one. I understand that those of you still engaged in commerce don’t the options to disengage that I have but it seems that there are obvious ways to reduce risk that people could take but don’t. I should be using TOR browser but I don’t. I’m not a Luddite, just paranoid. I know I’m not alone as the experience I related yesterday about the computer science dept. employee who doesn’t cross the border with a cell phone attests.

          So, I’m not deluding myself that I’m safe. I’m just hoping the gumshoes don’t care about me anymore. If I were to go back on the air, I’d be more careful.

          • P J Evans says:

            My phone is off most of the time, and generally in need of charging. That means it doesn’t ring. When I’m not using the computer, it’s turned off. Off/disconnected are good options.

  2. Dave Karson says:

    Wow, I am running out of popcorn tonight! I don’t want to get too far out in front of my ski’s, but this sounds potentially “Big” to me. Could this change the impeachment trial and get more Republicans onboard? Or am I overly biased and therefore misreading it and it is only a lot of sound and fury? Interested in others opinions, as IANAL or expert in this sort of thing. Thanks! Best, Dave Karson

  3. Rayne says:

    I am pondering the idea this is a roll-up in progress. Was the exit built in parallel with the main operation? If it’s a roll-up, what was the trigger to Parnas to wrap it up rather than fight it out?

    Especially with at least one defenestration this week and Medvedev+government sudden resignation. It’s as if some drawbridges are being pulled up — how many are there, and is this one in front of us?

    • drouse says:

      If it is, his partner in crime Igor doesn’t appear to be down with it. I remember reading a blurb that he and Rudy have entered into a joint defense agreement.

      • Rayne says:

        No. Roll-up, as in end an operation or program, usually when the op doesn’t pan out, goes wrong. Does that include flipping? Maybe, but Parnas isn’t under a cooperation agreement with SDNY.

        To say that again, paraphrased: Parnas isn’t cooperating with law enforcement, which means he is not formally flipped.

        So what is it he’s doing?

        • Molly Pitcher says:

          I have heard it said that he is blabbing to dicourage any effort to permanently silence or defenistrate him. What is your opinion of that reasoning ?

            • Molly Pitcher says:

              You would hope so, but the journalists taking mandatory flying lessons are not high profile. I just wonder if Parnas is hoping to humanize his image and make it harder for him to be quietly offed.

              Just because Hyde is a nutjob, doesn’t mean that someone wasn’t trying to silnce him.

              • Rayne says:

                Three words: Daphne Caruana Galizia.

                And ‘nutjob’ can offer nice cover for a person and/or op. Just take a look at Carter Page.

                  • Molly Pitcher says:

                    I think Lame Duck Trump’s ego is far too bloated to ever imagine him faking mental instability to get out of something. He is a genius, remember ?

                    If he seems to be slipping of the railings, I’m not assuming it’s an act.

                • Molly Pitcher says:

                  You’re right, I wasn’t remembering her. I guess I was thinking more about what could be gotten away with on US soil. Other than Epstien, there hasn’t been alot of permanent ‘silencing’ lately.

        • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

          Open to having you test my logic, but here goes:

          Parnas is being charged via SDNY = true
          SDNY is within the DOJ domain = true
          Barr can ‘see into’ all DOJ domain = true

          Therefore, Barr has power to ensure Parnas is not being offered an agreement by SDNY/DOJ.


          • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

            If, and only if, my logic above is impeccable, then it would seem likely that Parnas’s best option is to ‘go public’ in order to save himself.

            Because if my logic is accurate, then Barr (et al) have already signaled they want Parnas… ‘silent’. His only hope is to sing quite an elaborate song.

            If that is his objective, then I salute his ingenuity in evading Barr.
            In addition, to get interviews with Maddow, and IIRC, Anderson Cooper — on the same night — is IMVHO something akin to an information coup.

            Granted, from EW’s Twitter feed, she sees problems that I don’t.
            I also see that bmaz views Parnas’s atty as inept. In legal terms, he may very well be. However, as a watcher from Life’s Peanut Gallery, he is communicating with the public in very powerful fashion.

            All of that said, something seems uber funky: how any of this ties in with Putin’s recent actions is baffling – at least, from the Peanut Gallery.

          • Rayne says:

            True. What’s the benefit to Barr and the rest of the syndicate not offering an agreement? Why wouldn’t they need an agreement?

  4. P J Evans says:

    There was a live-blog of Maddow over at Kos. I’m sure it missed some things, but there’s enough for a start.

    Rudy messaged while it was on that he didn’t have anything to do with it – but there’s that letter on his own letterhead with his own signature! Hyde apparently was a talker rather than a doer, according to Parnas, so Yovanovitch might not have been in as much danger as it first appeared.

    • Eureka says:

      Parnas was lying a bunch and uh uh uh minimizing during that Hyde / Yovanovitch segment (among others). I’d have to rewatch — I was sick dog moming and only caught snippets, but I was not satisfied with the stories given.

      • P J Evans says:

        Yeah, a lot of stuff needs to be checked out – though Rudy’s letter should be real, and enough to get *him* in really deep shit. What Parnas says on TV, not under oath, is likely to change when he’s actually under oath and facing a judge or a lawyer and a camera for a deposition. (The docs are likely to be a *little* more reliable.)

        And where *did* Hyde get all that money he was donating, when he wasn’t paying his legal debts, like child support?

        • Eureka says:

          Sounds like the laundromat found a Maytag Man (with the “dependability” aspect here being a dude with “issues” and “needs”).

      • ernesto1581 says:

        “I want to get the truth out” (Lev Parnas)
        “I want to show you I’m honest in the worst way.” (A. Pismo Clam)

  5. Frank Probst says:

    Robert Hyde “playing with” Parnas about Yovanovitch seems like a ridiculous explanation for the texts. It’s going to be easy enough to see if his descriptions match up with Yovanovitch’s schedule. It’s also probably going to be fairly straightforward to investigate Hyde. If he hasn’t been hit with search warrants yet, I suspect those are coming. I doubt it’ll take much digging to see who he was talking to when all of this was going down.

    Aside to @bmaz: Is it possible that this guy’s already been hit with multiple search warrants, and we just don’t know about them yet, because nobody was paying attention to him until yesterday?

    • bmaz says:

      Possible? Sure. All of these nimrods are so noisy and chatty that you would think you would have heard by now though.

    • Eureka says:

      HA! I see it in the thumbnail on the homepage (I don’t see an image for the post, so it’s all NEW to me, lol).

      • Rayne says:

        Yeah, that was my handiwork. First time I saw Parnas and Giuliani in a photo together I thought of old gangster stories in crime magazines.

        TeddyinSanFran and I were yucking it up last night about the Russian angle — he likened Parnas to Boris Badenov from the Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoon. Just wish we had a better Natasha Nogoodnik Fatale than Victoria Toensing.

              • P J Evans says:

                I saw a display of drawings from animated shorts, years ago, where there was a map with features like “Veronica Lake” – there were several others, all stars from the period, but I’ve forgotten them.

        • Eureka says:

          Cool — I like your graphic creativity.

          Agree; Toensing’s role here is just like any other Dumb Dude’s.
          The writers on this one suck.

  6. Alaska reader says:

    Where did Maddow interview Parnas and, oh the irony if it is, …is that Ralph Steadman art behind Parnas?

    • Bunnyvelour says:

      Attorney’s office? Lots of diploma type things on the walls, trophies, awards. Loud city noises in the background—cars, sirens, etc.

  7. Bay State Librul says:

    I didn’t know Manafort owned a demolition company.

    Since he works in demolition, did he deserve a raze (ouch)?

  8. harpie says:



    7:19 AM · Jan 16, 2020

    BREAKING: Ukraine’s Interior Ministry announces criminal probe into alleged illegal surveillance of former US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch after text messages released by House investigators showed Robert F. Hyde and Lev Parnas discussing her being tracked in Kyiv.

    7:38 AM · Jan 16, 2020

    BREAKING: Police in Ukraine are investigating the possible surveillance of former US Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, according to the Interior Ministry.

    7:53 AM · Jan 16, 2020

    ANOTHER INVESTIGATION: Ukraine’s cyber police have opened an investigation into the reported hacking of Burisma, the company at the heart of the Trump impeachment process, the Interior Ministry announced. Ukrainian National Police are seeking cooperation from the FBI.

    • harpie says:

      From Millers Buzzfeed story:
      Ukraine Is Investigating Whether Marie Yovanovitch Was Under Surveillance By Rudy Giuliani’s Associates
      Christopher Miller // Reporting From Kyiv, Ukraine
      January 16, 2020, at 7:58 a.m. ET

      Ukraine’s position is to not interfere in the domestic affairs of the United States,” an Interior Ministry official said.
      “However, the published records contain the fact of a possible violation of the legislation of Ukraine and the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which protects the rights of a diplomat on the territory of another country.
      “Ukraine cannot ignore such illegal activities on its territory.”
      This is a developing news story

  9. Jenny says:

    Thanks Rayne for the open thread.
    So much exposure so much unfolding here and around the world. An investigative chart with all the connections to tell the players and their roles would be helpful.

    GOOD for Ambassador Yovanovitch standing up refusing to be abused by this administration. Yes, investigate. Her attorney said, ““The notion that American citizens & others were monitoring Ambassador Yovanovitch’s disturbing.” And
    pompous Pompeo has been silent. When will he speak up? Will he even speak up?

    As a former Ambassador said about Pompeo, ” “He’s like a heat-seeking missile for Trump’s ass.”

  10. harpie says:


    Press statement regarding GAO Decision B-331564,
    Office of Management and Budget–Withholding of Ukraine Security Assistance
    January 16, 2020:

    “Today, GAO issued a legal decision concluding that the Office of Management and Budget violated the law when it withheld approximately $214 million appropriated to DOD for security assistance to Ukraine.

    The President has narrow, limited authority to withhold appropriations under the Impoundment Control Act of 1974.

    OMB told GAO that it withheld the funds to ensure that they were not spent “in a manner that could conflict with the President’s foreign policy.” The law does not permit OMB to withhold funds for policy reasons.”
    The full decision can be found here: /

    • Vicks says:

      Is this what is required to void privilege because a crime has been committed?
      I have always wondered how it works….
      It seems there would be a circular argument that until conviction, “a crime” is in the eye of the beholder?.
      If there is any truth to that how can testimony ever be demanded at a time when it would be useful to prosecutors?
      Obviously I am missing something big here.

  11. Molly Picther says:

    I want to know what to make of Liz Cheney deciding NOT to run for the open Senate seat in Wyoming ?

  12. harpie says:

    1] I tried to interview Sen. Peter Lucido. He told me a group of schoolboys ‘could have a lot of fun’ with me. It’s time to hold powerful men accountable for saying sexist things to young women
    Allison Donahue -January 15, 2020

    […] I’m not saying this is the same situation and I’m not saying I’m a victim in this. But the 15-year-old girl in me, who didn’t know how to advocate for herself then, was telling me to do it now.
    At the very least, I wanted to give Lucido the chance to take it back and apologize. He did not. […]

    2] Op-Ed: Elizabeth Warren brushed off Bernie Sanders and taught a master class in handling sexism
    VIRGINIA HEFFERNAN JAN. 15, 2020 2:37 PM

    […] Sure, during the debate, Sanders had gaslighted Warren over whether he told her a female candidate couldn’t win the 2020 election. But now he wanted her to forgive and forget. If he could be seen shaking her hand, he might be off the hook. But… nope. Warren didn’t play along. Sanders huffed off. […]

      • e.a.f. says:

        saw the place card picture on t.v. and it certainly made me laugh I’ll just keep reading this blog to get through all of this. Next week the ‘real shoe” starts.

Comments are closed.