Three Things: The GOP’s Trumpian Death Panels [UPDATE-1]

[Check the byline, thanks! Update at the bottom of this post. /~Rayne]

Remember all the squealing by conservatives and Republican members of Congress back in 2009-2010 during the debate about health care, crying crocodile tears about “death panels“?

Well here they are, death panels brought to you by the same whiny selfish leeches who claimed socialized medicine would result in Democratic bureaucrats picking off Americans to limit health care.

~ 3 ~

I won’t embed video here. Open these links at your own risk, knowing these may be triggering to those who’ve had bad experiences in hospitals.

1 — Bergamo Italy hospital

2 — Brescia and Rome Italy hospitals

But this I’m going to share.

Those are Italian military trucks carrying away the dead to churches and cremation facilities, some outside of Bergamo because Bergamo’s own facilities are at capacity.

This, in a very much pro-life country which is predominantly Catholic.

This, in a country which has more hospital beds per 1000 persons than the U.S.

Some of those patients who are not in ICU have likely been labeled “codice nero” — death is imminent, do not resuscitate — during triage due to the shortage of ventilators. They are more likely to be over 60 years old because they are prioritizing critical care services and equipment for those more likely to survive.

This is what conservatives and Republicans really wanted: death panels, but conducted by the poor overtaxed health care workers who are themselves at risk because of incompetent governance by conservatives and Republicans.

I hope Americans are ready to see the dead hauled away by the truck load after the GOP’s death panel is through with them.

~ 2 ~


That’s the price for multiple tests and trips to the ER over seven days for COVID-19 an uninsured Boston-area patient was charged. You can imagine some people aren’t going to want to deal with that bill — or that swamped hospitals may discourage the uninsured — leading to a lack of treatment and more deaths. Many patients will be too sick to hassle with chasing a lower cost approach as charges can vary widely across many health care providers.

A death panel by health care expense.

Capitalism unto death.

~ 1 ~

Death panels may be composed of single individuals.

John Bolton, with Trump’s imprimatur, chose to kill the National Security Council’s pandemic response team, which has now lead to the deaths of Americans.

Mike Pompeo’s crappy diplomatic work failed to develop and build relationships with China, South Korea, other countries facing the same pandemic threat in order to obtain and share usable information and assistance to reduce American deaths.

Jared Kushner and Stephen Miller pulled a grossly negligent EU travel ban out of their asses, executing it so poorly that the resulting crush of travelers in the airports last week will sure increase American deaths in the weeks ahead many times over.

And the malignant narcissist-in-chief continues to push bad information jeopardizing lives both here and abroad after more than two months of inaction. Trump pushed a non-peer reviewed study on hydrochloroquine and azithromycin by tweet today after pushing this drug combo during a presser. There’s already been a run on the anti-malarial potentially hurting lupus patients for whom this has been prescribed; there’ve also been reports of poisonings in Nigeria after users self-medicated with the anti-malarial.

Trump has also mentioned and then lied about the Defense Production Act. There has been no real effort to order production of personal protection equipment for health care workers under the DPA. He’s choosing to expose first responders to COVID-19.

Mass death panels by Trumpism.

~ 0 ~

Sadly, it’s not just Americans who will face so-called conservatives’ death panels. The UK is already entering a state of crisis as its hospitals’ ICUs exceed capacity. There is no sign of constructive decision making by Boris Johnson to alleviate the capacity problem nor realistically halt the rate of infection.

Instead, Johnson’s government and now Trump’s Department of Justice are seeking powers to detain people instead of doing what is already within their ability and purview to do to stem contagion and aid respective health care systems.

Death panels by Tory conservatives and Trump fascists.

By the way, where’s Sarah Palin now? Still licking her polyester-pink wounds after her recent fiasco appearance on The Masked Singer when the show’s death panel gave her the much-deserved axe?

This is an open thread.

UPDATE-1 — 22-MAR-2020 — 11:00 P.M. ET

This video features Rep. Katie Porter’s sister who’s an emergency room physician. She breaks down what the Trump-GOP death panel will decide by the numbers.

Are you one in 50? Or are you one of the 49 which Trump and the GOP have decided in their pro-life hypocrisy won’t be saved?

228 replies
  1. Rayne says:

    I wish I could feel something besides raw, unrelenting rage at the Trump administration and the Republican Party. Their corruption and hypocrisy have no apparent end. They’re literally killing us.

    • Rayne says:

      I just realized I forgot to mention that hospitals in Washington state are already performing triage in the same fashion as northern Italy, identifying which patients are more likely to survive and then apportioning the too-few ventilators among them, while leaving older patients and those who are a steep gamble to save with simple oxygen masks, hoping for the best.

      The entirety of health care workers will need therapy after this year-plus horror is over because of what has been forced on them by the worst president ever.

    • BobCon says:

      The flip side to their killing us is the lengths they will go to save themselves. They will go to the head of the line for treatment, emergency care, and drugs. We will find out about major donors getting to jump the queues, about shakedowns for bigger donations and PR and help with the election. And we are going to be appalled by some of the people who end up playing the game.

      • OldTulsaDude says:

        Many years ago the Doobie Brothers foretold this day of a fascist Republican party and proposed an answer.

        You don’t know me but I’m your brother
        I was raised here in this living hell
        You don’t know my kind in your world
        Fairly soon the time will tell
        Telling me the things you’re gonna do for me
        I ain’t blind and I don’t like what I think I see
        Takin’ it to the streets
        Takin’ it to the streets
        Takin’ it to the streets

        • DaveC says:

          Taking it to the streets is tricky in the midst of pandemic. Deep breaths friends. This is an ultra marathon, not a sprint. If/ when it does come down to the streets, please, lets encourage peaceful, nonviolent protest.

        • OldTulsaDude says:

          Don’t read more into the lyrics than is there. Takin’ it to the streets is what the civil rights movement did. So did Ghandi. There does not have to be violence associated with forceful resistance.

    • PhoneInducedPinkEye says:

      I’ve felt anger, contempt, frustration, and annoyance up until now, tonight was the first time I really felt rage that shut down my thoughts and took over my entire body. Both my parents have started coughing and feeling ill, and it was too much to really realise we have a needy narrcissist who fucked this whole thing up because of his emotional issues, and a crowd of adults who knew better are so cowed by his racist followers, or don’t give a shit, and decided to just let it happen.

    • coral says:

      Agree. Thank you for expressing. I am furious, and I have plenty of time to fume since we are currently self-quarantined after a possible exposure 10 days ago. That was one person, actually sick enough to get tested. Very anxious for daughter who lives in NYC, although Cuomo seems competent, which is more than I can say for most public figures in the news these days.

  2. Molly Pitcher says:

    I received a photo from my daughter today. She received it from a Dr friend who works at the hospital at Vanderbilt. The picture shows a hospital ward set up in the parking garage for the hospital.

      • Rayne says:

        The first shot I saw was this one, and it’s clearly more garage-like. At least they’re ready to segregate COVID-19 from the usual ER traffic.

        I hope to gods you people are bracing yourselves emotionally for this shit storm.

        • Frank Probst says:

          Jesus, did they get the floor-plans from a 1918 influenza ward?

          And it’s obviously good to separate the COVID-19 people from the rest of the ER traffic, but I’m not understanding how that’s going to be done here. You’re probably not getting tested at your PCP’s office, so it’s not like you’re coming in with the test result in your hand. Are they just shunting everyone with flu-like symptoms or GI symptoms from the parking lot to this area? Because that’s going to get them a bunch of people who don’t actually have COVID-19 mixed in with a bunch of people who do, so if they didn’t have the COVID-19 virus before, there’s a good chance they’ll get it while they’re there. And anyone in there who DOESN’T have the virus will STILL have to be quarantined for 14 days after they go in there, even if they don’t get infected.

        • greengiant says:

          EMS are the responders. Their on site evaluation is given and the schedulers direct them to the hospital they should take the case to and where to drop them off. In some areas I suspect it may be that one hospital will be directed to handle the non Covid-19 symptom patients just as today one or two hospitals take the major trauma cases etc.

          Every ER has a new “entrance” anyone ignoring 911 advice to shelter in place unless breathing difficulty and “walking in” to the ER is getting triaged outside the building.

          I could see an ER with their tents Friday. They had a welcoming group of 5 or 6 people. This in a place with about 1/10th of NYC’s Sunday positive case numbers of about 1000 per million.

  3. Mark hodgson says:

    Nice wood floor! how in gods name do they plan on disinfecting that? the Privacy screen need to be covered in plastic sheeting and I don’t see any ventilation above the beds. Look at it this way if you don’t have COVID 19 when you arrive you will soon.
    I built Ebola hospitals in Africa that were better thought out than this place…….

    • Rayne says:

      First, I doubt it’s wood. It’s like a plastic composite which could be mopped. We don’t have all the context about these images, whether there will be additional plastic sheeting or surfacing to come.

      This isn’t Ebola just as it isn’t influenza. I’d be far more worried about ventilation given the multi-hour hang time of aerosolized droplets from exhalation.

      • P J Evans says:

        I’ve seen a lot of “wood” floors that are plastic in medical offices over the last 10 years, where they aren’t straight-up seamless plastic of some kind.

        • Rayne says:

          The ER floor in one of two hospitals locally is this “wood” stuff. It’s plastic laminate sheet which looks like planking but smooth. Same stuff in Obstetrics at the other hospital to make birthing rooms look homier. All plastic, all moppable.

          P.S. don’t ask me how I know this.

      • CCM says:

        We use HEPA filter on the exhalation part of the circuit. Intubation, putting a tube in the trachea is the dangerous part

        • Sonso says:

          Yes, intubation is a big issue. Nephew works at a VA; all residents are being self-quarantined as they were either the admitting for a handful of Covid patients, or were assisting in intubation.

    • Geoff says:

      Yup. But realistically, I’m guessing they are doing the best with what they have. I’m sure plenty of people there realize the truth of what you said. But what is the alternative when you know what is about to land upon you hospital?

      This is an extremely sad time for our country. And as Rayne said, we’ll all need to brace ourselves. For those of us that know it, and feel they can steel themselves and get through, the best thing for us to do is to try to find a way to help the others through, those for which these next few weeks will be a calamitous and existential shock.

    • Vicks says:

      Most gyms like the one pictured will have more than one type of flooring.
      The basketball court is probably wood (maple) and the rest of the gym a multi purpose synthetic floor.

      • dude says:

        Vicks is right. There are many kinds of gymnasium floors. They are not all wood-look plastic and indeed most users don’t want that because they aren’t good for the athletes. Rec centers, elementary schools–yeah, more common to have non-wood floors. Wooden gym flooring systems are typically wood with a polyurethane finish (several coats) and built over a cushiony subfloor system that rests ultimately on a concrete slab. Polyrethane (if well maintained) is cleanable enough, but the gaps between boards still exist and will eventually absorb fluids if they aren’t mopped up right away.

        Hospitals are not typically designed to take the loads of patients being funneled into them now. Separation between ‘normal’ emergency patients and highly contagious ones exists, but on a really small scale. Plus, there is usually time (calling ahead) that gives everyone time to prepare. Most are conceived for the occasional ambulance driving up, not a fleet of them. Burn centers and special hospitals are exceptions, but they aren’t the rule. Observation units (where patients stay over more than 24 hrs) are also separate from ICU’s, but they are not usually intended for this kind of observation—they are typically for post-op heart-surgery, post-chemo observation, that sort of thing. Insurance companies and hospitals have to argue about how to pay-code these situations. There is an intraprofessional argument about how to cost less and create less upfront expense to have patients in OU’s stay for 23 hrs instead of 24. This has filtered down to hospital and clinic design too. So it brings us back to Rayne’s original notion: this is how disaster capitalism works and how Naomi Klein was soooo right.

        • Rayne says:

          Last thing I’m going to worry about is gymnasium flooring. If I’m on a cot staring at a gymnasium floor, chances are given my pre-existing condition that I’m “codice nero.”

        • Just Bill says:


          For sure the gym flooring will be well down on the worry list. Also I must say that you and all the emptywheel team are “numero uno”.

          Be safe and let’s hope we all get through this as best we can.

  4. Duke says:

    I have no idea about the hellscape we must face but I do know we can chose to be good we want by reaching out to those we know from today and yesteryear and express the positive thoughts and feelings we have or had and wish them wellness and never stop speaking the truth. Trump is at war with Americans. They are creating a blockade on medical supplies. This is the same as targeting medics and chaplains in battle.

    The decision has been made to go with herd immunity and work towards suppressing the information either by changing policy or law. Wall Street has been trying send the message and he is barely listening and his only gotos are to lie, bribe, blackmail, extortion, ultimately try to cancel the Constitution.

    The sky has fallen and we will have to put all the remains together.

  5. earlofhuntingdon says:

    California’s governor currently expects 56% of California’s approximately 40 million people will acquire Covid-19. That’s 22.4 million people. If 20% need hospitalization, that’s nearly 4.5 million beds, over a short but indeterminate period of time, vastly exceeding normal capacity. If the overall mortality rate is about 2%, that’s about 450,000 deaths. In California. If the entire country has a similar experience, you can do the math.

    The overall rate obscures the death rate among older people. It is about 15% for the over eighties, 8% for those 70-79, 3.6% for those 60-69, 1.3% for those 50-59, and much lower for those younger.

    Nobody is ready for that in California or anywhere else. This White House isn’t ready for it, other than in the belief apparently shared by some of Trump’s closest advisers that those destined to die should get on with it and decrease the surplus population. Nor is anyone ready for the Second Great Depression that will follow.

    • P J Evans says:

      I was reading a post at “Skeptical Raptor” where one of the commenters was trying to minimize the whole thing, claiming that there won’t be more than 100K deaths. I gave him the Newsom bit about 24 million getting it, and pointed out that even if the fatality rate is only 1%, that’s still going to be more than 200K deaths. (Commenter is impervious. And, I think, far less bright than he thinks.)

      • Rayne says:

        Quite possible commenter is a troll. There’s a brigade out there at work, been noticed they are working COVID-19 material.

        • P J Evans says:

          I figured him for a troll – that blog gets them, because it covers things like vaccines and “miracle cures”.

    • stryx says:

      Also, we need to remember that this disease occurs on a continuum. Using round numbers and conventional understanding, 80% of us who get it will get a mild case, feel sick and get over it. Some 1 or 2% of us who get sick will die from it. That still leaves some 20% who will get sick, possibly require hospitalization, possibly need a ventilator etc. That 20% will be quite ill and will likely bear the burden of their illness for the rest of their life in the form of (possibly substantially) reduced breathing capacity.

      This is why I want someone to explain to me why DJT shouldn’t be tried for crimes against humanity.

      • Rayne says:

        That spectrum of COVID-19 experience only gives a current snapshot. It doesn’t indicate whether the persons who were asymptomatic/low to moderate symptoms as well as those more seriously affected might not have hidden damage which will become evident over time. I suspect when the dust settles and data has been sifted we may see the latent effects of other past viral exposures revealed — like young people who might have had H1N1 a decade ago, or Zika within the last couple of years.

  6. Frank Probst says:

    Has anyone run the numbers on health care workers? The rate at which they’re getting sick is a lot higher than I’d expect, and once you’re symptomatic, you’re out for 14 days. In some places, we may end up running out of doctors and nurses before we run out of ICU beds or ventilators.

    • Rayne says:

      I don’t think we’ve seen numbers yet on HCW, at least I haven’t yet in spite of combing through all kinds of studies all day long for weeks now. Wondering if this warning from Italy might not apply to contagion spreading to other patients but to HCW as well, need to read it yet.

      • ducktree says:

        Yesterday I dropped off the remains of a case of N95 masks – purchased 2 years ago for the semi-annual fire seasons here in Cali – at the ER entrance to Long Beach Memorial Medical Center (the closest to my home); there were about 7 boxes of ten left, and I kept a box for my own use. The receiving nurse dressed in full PPE pointed to a folding chair and said “put them over there.”

        Outside the tent-like entrance which had been rigged up to screen incoming patients (there were about six people waiting) a young man at the end of the line and apparently with his mother, holding the front of his polo shirt over his mouth and nose the whole time, said “thanks, man!”

    • posaune says:

      Remember past nursing shortages when nurses were recruited from the Philippines? We will need every foreign healthcare graduate we can get.

      • PhoneInducedPinkEye says:

        It’s a good thing we’ve become such a warm and welcoming place for immigrants, especially those without blonde hair and blue eyes. I shudder to think what would happen if we discouraged entry as policy and political plank

        • rip says:

          Ah, I think that is another way to say we give preference to aryans.

          Strange how this reich has some very non-aryans helping with decisions in donnie’s name.

  7. Pablo in the Gazebo says:

    I had to tell someone just yesterday how disappointed I was in him, that I didn’t think he was in the cult. He was complaining that we should give politics a rest for once, we were discussing how many additional deaths Trump’s dithering would cause. How he makes the distinction I don’t know, but it was disappointing as he was the last Trump supporter I was talking to. Today brought another example. This is a letter to the editor of our local newspaper that appeared this morning.
    “As I began reading the New York Times article in The Gazette on Saturday morning, I was wondering how they were going to spin the outstanding press conference the president held Friday afternoon regarding the coronavirus.
    Of course, they didn’t disappoint me. In a page-and-a-half of print, they figured out how to not say one word about the president enlisting half a dozen CEOs from major retailers from across the country to help speed up testing process. In case you missed the conference, it took up almost half the presentation.
    CEO after CEO thanked the president for his leadership in confronting the spread of the virus. After all the negative reporting about the president’s lack of response over the last couple of weeks, it was obvious that the president and his team were hard at work coming up with a plan that will undoubtedly work.
    I think he successfully calmed a lot of nerves. It’s obvious the Times is biased against the president, and no wonder he refers to them as fake news. It was certainly on display in the March 14 paper.”
    The phrase he uses, “the president and his team were hard at work coming up with a plan that will undoubtedly work.” shows how thoroughly the cult can erase reality. Where he and I live the number of infections is the highest in the nation. In the newspaper his letter was published on the same day there were articles of our hospitals running out of test kits, masks, ventilators, beds…everything. But he is sure Trump and his CEO stage props will come up with a plan that will “undoubtedly work” with the failures right in front of him. The state is on lock-down and he is sure Trump will have a plan soon. How do you argue with that? The cult is lost and I, for one, am not wasting my effort on them any longer.

    • P J Evans says:

      They aren’t listening to what the doctors are saying – they’re seeing the PR and thinking it’s reality. None of what Trmp has promised has happened, not at any time in the last three years..

      • Geoff says:

        But none of the previous lies resulted in a million Americans dying. You have to figure his dithering doubles the death count. This won’t sit well with the base. Unless they are told 10 mil could have died if it weren’t for Trumps bold actions limiting it to two million.

      • paulpfixion says:

        I know this isn’t the most pressing issue, currently. But, will the now unavoidable reality of a healthcare disaster the likes we have not seen in 100 years have any impact on the murdoch/gop/tory propaganda machine? The dissonance is already obvious to those of us who are paying attention, but will any percentage of the folks like the above author of the letter to the editor change their opinions in any visible manner? How will Fox pivot?

        • Rayne says:

          I’m assuming that’s a typo and you meant “red” as in the color and conservative ideological bent.

          The death count will be higher in more populous states. But I think another factor will be race, not just red or blue governor. Which of these states have higher percentages of non-white populations?

          1 California (D)
          2 Texas (R)
          3 Florida (R)
          4 New York (D)
          5 Pennsylvania (D)
          6 Illinois (D)
          7 Ohio (R)
          8 Georgia (R)
          9 North Carolina (D)
          10 Michigan (D)

        • paulpfixion says:

          It’s just clear to me that we have two viruses: First, the Murdoch Virus that started in the Nixon administration and subsequently evolved into Atwater’s southern strategy, Gingrich’s blather, and finally into a full blown Ailes’ wet dream of a Fox News. This cultural virus that attacks truth and facts in order to concentrate power and wealth into fewer and fewer hands has lowered our country’s immune system to the biological virus we are now fighting as it didn’t allow us to produce a proper healthcare system or safety net and it divided us into alternate reality tribes that are now paralyzed and unable to respond coherently to a crisis.

          Italy is different of course, and comparing cultures is always difficult and often non-productive. However, this article in Quartz about how the messaging of the far right in Italy is currently being ignored was enough to give me pause and start to wonder what actually will happen when the dust settles in the US.

          I’m just not sure if a difference in mortality rates sorted by State political affiliation would make any difference–a “we are doing better in Alabama” campaign or something, or if it will matter which states get hit harder in terms of total deaths. (diverse states vs less-diverse states). With super spreaders, it is also impossible to predict at this point.

          I tend to think at this moment that this type of event is more akin to the coffins coming out of the cargo planes during Vietnam. This is a truth that cannot be hidden, only shaded. The question is how much and to what effect? When a virus is indiscriminately killing White people and POC, Wealthy people and Working Class people, and Foreigners and Citizens, when the entire economy is burning like a CH-47 that exploded in an oil field, the game has been changed.

          It would be naive to think that it will assuredly be changed for the better. The shittiest people in the world are bunkered down trying to solve the problem (Roger Stone, if you’re reading this, Fuck You!) But it isn’t impossible to hope.

      • Vicks says:

        I caught a clip of Trump deflecting a question about supplies with the million masks he just ordered and how he had been “ hearing from a great many doctors about the great job he was doing. He’d been getting many calls…
        I’ll bet you couldn’t find one doctor NOT in Trump’s organization (that would include those on the take with big pharma) that could find anything good to say
        Next time someone tries to blow smoke ask them how the hell they think it feels for the people on our front lines not to even be able to say “i know our leader and his administration is doing the best they can.
        That meme trump tweeted out with him fiddling away “my next piece is called no one can stop what’s coming” freaked me out then and continues to set the tone as far as I’m concerned.

        • P J Evans says:

          He likes talking about the calls he’s been getting about how well he’s doing – but the reality is that no one in the general public can get through the WH switchboard and the staff to him. In other words, he’s making shit up again.

      • Pablo in the Gazebo says:

        The editors of that page ask for an address and phone number and about half the time they call or email me. (Usually about length.) We are a smallish town, upstate New York, and we have our share of cultists here. Gun sales are way up. But I take you point.

        • Rayne says:

          Only needs a couple true believers in the area. It’d be easy to pull off astroturfing with a burner phone. Find an elderly GOP or NRA donor from a mailing list or the FEC’s campaign contribution database, submit a letter under their name and use the burner phone from that area so when the paper calls to verify the person, they have a warm body. Heck, I could do it with a VoIP phone number like those issued by Google Voice.

    • Katherine M Williams says:

      “the president and his team were hard at work coming up with a plan that will undoubtedly work.”

      …..that is so baffling & exasperating to read! There are *already* plenty of plans out there, created and tested years ago by several Gov’t agencies, and the military. New ones from the WH are not needed. The Military/Agencies only need the “go ahead” from Trump. Why hasn’t he given it? Is HE awaiting the “go ahead” from Putin?

  8. John Paul Jones says:

    It’s true the hydroxycloroquine and azithromycin study isn’t peer reviewed. And the authors do point out that it is a far from definitive study. And the point out that it’s an off-label study. And they note that the drug combination did not work for everyone, and worked at differential rates in different patients. And they note the small sample size. All that said, it still reads and looks like a scientific paper should read and look, and the methods and procedures used were standard for such work. So much as I hate to say it, Trump was not spouting absolute nonsense, even though it’s clear that he doesn’t understand how tentative this is, and as always, like the grifter he is, he is surrounding the small nugget of fact with a lot of BS, telling people what he thinks they want to hear – that there is a miracle cure – when what there might be are first steps towards a possible treatment. Far, far better to have simply said: “Scientists are exploring, and they have come up with some interesting potential treatments. More when we know more.”

    • Gnome de Plume says:

      Whenever he makes up some bullshit story like that, I always assume that the subject was mentioned in a briefing and that he only half listened, while not understanding a thing. But his little sick brain decided it was a great sales point. And here we are.

    • Vicks says:

      Fuck it.
      Trump claimed a specific drug and a specific company had FDA “game changing” tool to help this country beat this crisis.
      Since the day he was sworn in, the hardest working people in (what we used to call an administration) this self serving organization are the surrogates, spinning in front of the cameras.
      The president of the United States is pumping up specific pharma stocks with flat out lies like claiming fda approvals and “game changers” and it’s quaintly being called “happy talk”
      This is not “happy talk,” this is an uncommon criminal, with uncommon power, who has zero concern for anyone harmed by the fallout, saying and doing ANYTHING in the moment to get off the hot seat.
      To continue to allow any space for his behavior is going to “lead” this country right off a cliff.
      Trump is a menace but since he is the president, the most powerful thing we can do is stop paying attention to him. Shut down the paid liars desperate to get on tv to spin his words.
      Trump can’t exist without a spotlight on him. Starve him of the fuel he needs and focus attention on the handful in his organization that can be trusted.

    • Vicks says:

      Fuck it.
      Trump claimed a specific drug and a specific company had FDA “game changing” tool to help this country beat this crisis.
      Since the day he was sworn in, the hardest working people in (what we used to call an administration) in this self serving organization are the surrogates, spinning in front of the cameras.
      The president of the United States is pumping up specific pharma stocks with flat out lies like claiming fda approvals and “game changers” and it’s quaintly being called “happy talk”
      This is not “happy talk,” this is an uncommon criminal, with uncommon power, who has zero concern for anyone harmed by the fallout, saying and doing ANYTHING in the moment to get off the hot seat.
      To continue to allow any space for his behavior is going to “lead” this country right off a cliff.
      Trump is a menace but since he is the president, the most powerful thing we can do is stop paying attention to him. Shut down the paid liars desperate to get on tv to spin his words.
      Trump can’t exist without a spotlight on him. Starve him of the fuel he needs and focus attention on the handful in his organization that can be trusted.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      In the context and as president, Trump was spouting absolute nonsense. He’s desperate for some feel good snake oil he can sell when he’s in trouble. And he’s always in trouble.

      Were he not president, he’d be considered a crank for spouting some crap cure he heard at a cocktail party. He is president, people followed his “advice,” and got sick from it. That description also sums up his entire presidency.

    • Rayne says:

      Trump had absolutely NO business bringing up a drug cocktail not approved the FDA for use against COVID-19. This is an issue which should be addressed by those qualified to do so. Had Dr. Fauci thought it was important he could have brought it up but no — he ended up having to mitigate Trump’s overreach.

      Trump did far more harm than good and likely because he wanted to help his personal re-election odds by pushing what he (or somebody who coached him) thought was good news.

      Trump should have said, “We have had the benefit of years of research into other coronaviruses combined with virological and epidemiological data on COVID-19 from across the globe and our own states. Our American health care workers will do the very best to fight COVID-19 armed with this knowledge. It’s up to each of us to take our own role in fighting the spread of this virus by staying home and taking care of others.”

      But he’s a selfish boor and this wouldn’t occur to him or his equally selfish, boorish family and minions.

    • Frank Probst says:

      If he doesn’t understand the science, he probably shouldn’t be talking about it. A finding like this one will rapidly lead to more trials in more places with more patients and better controls. If it really is a “miracle”, it’ll be pretty obvious pretty quickly. If it’s not, then you don’t have stupid people buying up hydroxychloroquine and causing a shortage for people who use the drug for diseases that it actually works on. Or worse, people taking hydroxychloroquine who shouldn’t be.

  9. Raven Eye says:

    So what’s the real story on the 500,000 test kits that DoD flew from Italy to Memphis? Who is getting them? Are the already approved? How much time does it take to get the results? 500,000 is a lot, but when you think about them spread out with enough at clinics/hospitals to handle any surges…

    This little HHS blurb is long on back-patting, but a bit short on transparency:

    • Pajaro says:

      Its a safe bet that those masks are reserved for the palace and friends. Air Force transit was likely done under cover of national defense, protecting the current government; Continuity of Operations Plan. Wonder if they picked up a million or so nasal swabs, too. Next up will be a planeload of doctors and nurses hijacked from some hapless country.

      • Pajaro says:

        Didn’t this Barr fellow take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution? Or was the the Republican oath-taking with one hand behind the back with crossed fingers?

      • cavenewt says:

        Is it a slippery slope?

        The Justice Department has quietly asked Congress for the ability to ask chief judges to detain people indefinitely without trial during emergencies — part of a push for new powers that comes as the novel coronavirus spreads throughout the United States.

        Documents reviewed by POLITICO detail the department’s requests to lawmakers on a host of topics, including the statute of limitations, asylum and the way court hearings are conducted. POLITICO also reviewed and previously reported on documents seeking the authority to extend deadlines on merger reviews and prosecutions…

    • Raven Eye says:

      Please define “Martial Law” for us. Is there something you can point to in federal statute or code? Who would actually order “martial law”? What would “martial law” look like on the ground? If one or more governors call up their National Guard, is that “martial law”? Would habeas corpus be suspended and, if so, at which governmental levels.

      • Raven Eye says:

        …And for any thoughts of “martial law” lasting more than four hours, seek professional (legal) help.

    • Vicks says:

      You mean “Marshall law?
      Clearly it’s the only explanation for the fleet of black SUV’s parked in a government own lot near my house.
      The owner of the car dealership who’s name is on every license plate holders should be confronted immediately by the second amendment jackasses as only second amendment jackasses can.
      In my neck of the woods we know “Marshall” law is coming because about a thousand people seem to have the same “friend” that is friends with the fire chief of a non-existant fire department and share another identical “friend” who has a daughter in the “administration”
      We truly are connected eh?
      I know there must be an awesome joke circulating poking fun at Ted Cruz’s stupid tweet about “Marshall” law.
      I could use a laugh, if anyone has seen one

  10. harpie says:

    Marcy tweets that Michigan REPUBLICANS asked for [and RECEIVED!] a CHURCH EXEMPTION from the 50 people together limit.

    That’s how NYC became a hot spot…only THAT happened BEFORE this was widely known!

    SORRY, I can’t seem to STOP YELLING!!!

    • Rayne says:

      The church issue would have been a tough one since it’s a religious practice with First Amendment protection.

      The problem is religious leaders failing to protect their congregations. Let’s put the blame there. Even the Pope has now given dispensation to Catholics not to attend, yet some priests are ignoring the Pope (happening in Florida in my parent’s parish).

      • harpie says:

        Republicans in the legislature asked for this, instead of asking for social distancing.
        [This is also inserting politics/government into religion.]
        I’m blaming them.

    • it's complicated says:

      I would say that these guys are somewhat ahistorical.

      As we all know, the really really big outbreak in Korea (to which still ~60% of current cases can be traced back) was caused by the “church” called Shincheonji. Which is btw said to have been active in 26?29? countries under various names.
      And other church congregations tried to spread the gospel^Wvirus, too.
      One of them probably connected to Shincheonji, one of them probably not, and two groups of older catholics who had thought it was just the right time to do a pilgrimage to the Holy Land.
      For chuckles, add in the megachurch priest who went on TV after all of the above had happened and declared that Covid19 was here because people didn’t pray enough.
      South Korea really had a big misfortune in being aggressively missionized by US evangelical churches after 1953.

    • harpie says:

      5:18 AM · Mar 22, 2020

      Please don’t treat us as cannon-fodder
      We are over 6000 frontline doctors who are pleading with @BorisJohnson to intervene to ensure all NHS staff adequate personal protective equipment (PPE) when facing the Covid-19 pandemic. #protectthefrontline

      8:20 AM · Mar 22, 2020

      Spain just announced that more than 10% of the cases are healthcare staff. There is something terribly wrong when they can’t do their job safely.

      • Rayne says:

        It’s the way health care has become centralized which poses a risk to health care workers. Laurie Garrett shared that warning from Italy — treat patients at home, not at the hospital where they infect others.

        There still isn’t adequate respect for the virus’s ability to remain suspended when aerosolized by patients’ exhalation. COVID-19 needs to be treated more like measles which can be airborne.

    • harpie says:

      9:07 AM · Mar 22, 2020

      Hooooo boy. Pressed repeatedly by @jaketapper, the director of FEMA can’t give even a ROUGH number of masks they’re shipping out to states.
      9:42 AM · Mar 22, 2020

      What if America were attacked and the President left us defenseless? FEMA head admits to @jaketapper: despite Trump’s lauding #DefenseProductionAct Executive Order, Trump HAS NOT implemented it. Their plan: rely on corporations’ voluntary contributions [VIDEO]

      • harpie says:

        Former WH Dir. for global health:
        8:40 AM · Mar 22, 2020

        @HHSGov @fema @DeptofDefense:

        Who’s in charge? Local leaders warn PPE + supplies running out & no organized way to distribute between states w/out competition. Who will lead DPA implementation, organize logistics for 3 urgent surges:1) supplies; 2) hcare wrkers; 3)scaled testing?

        If federal government won’t do it, perhaps a foundation? A company? With a logistics platform for distribution + shipping? The states deserve leadership.

        Recipe current or former @fema @DeptofDefense @theOFDA leader with operational and logistics expertise should be in charge of the whole state effort, help distribute what we have; surge more of each (they’re linked); help other countries; repeat.

        This will take time. Start now.

        • Rayne says:

          “Being given the go ahead” — sure, right, as if they needed him to do that. It’d be nice, though, to see that tangerine hellbeast give the U.S. strategic reserve the go ahead to release personal protective equipment in the mean time.

          He is such a useless sack of carbon atoms.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          Spin. Let’s see the contracts, prices, and delivery schedules, who owns the technology and how much upfront will be paid for them to “re-tool.”

      • Vicks says:

        I saw the interview.
        I don’t know what the line is for when a member media backs off on a question, and I don’t know if Tapper was doing a better job than usual, or the head of FEMA’s heart just wasn’t in it, but there is no way anyone watching missed that the real story was in the non-answers.

      • Vicks says:

        If I recall the FEMA guy never actually said MASKS being shipped.
        His pivots were not just away from how many MASKS were being shipped, he also changed the description of WHAT was shipping to “PPE’s” or some similar useful sounding word.
        Maybe I am wrong but I was under the impression that the shortage is because there simply are no masks to ship?
        Can you imagine a hospital in New York City banking on this and getting a pallet full of extra small paper booties?

      • harpie says:

        [This is the whole article]:

        Ohio doctors are obtaining so many prescriptions of a possible coronavirus treatment for themselves, their families, their colleagues and their friends that it’s wiping out the supply for everybody else — including victims of Lupus who will become more susceptible to the virus without their usual medication.

        As a result, Ohio’s pharmacy board, in an emergency meeting Sunday morning, barred pharmacists from dispensing chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 unless a person has tested positive for the virus or otherwise approved by the pharmacy board’s executive director.

        In order to get either of those drugs the patient’s positive test must be disclosed by the doctor on the prescription request. The prescription must be limited to a 14-day supply and no refills are permitted without a new written prescription

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          It’s old school, but I have a split rail and some tar and feathers for Mr. Mnuchin’s request.

          The House should hold hearings with Naomi Klein and Philip Mirowski. The MSM should have them on speed dial, and should be handing out free copies of The Shock Doctrine and Never Let a Serious Crisis Go To Waste.

        • P J Evans says:

          it’s funny-not-funny how they’re always so worried about the deficit when it comes to funding for people who are poor/disabled/minority, but not when it comes to the rich and big corporations.

        • vicks says:

          Holy shit.
          How is that not election interference?
          Or extortion?
          No way, that can fly in these times, these corporations, especially the ones that bought back stock instead of building up their businesses with the windfall Trump gave them at taxpayer expense need to go stand in line for low interest or interest free loans and show their business plans to lenders that include details on how they are replacing the usual golden handcuffs for execs with spiked ones.
          There is no reason on earth to gift these companies money. They need to pay it back.

        • Vicks says:

          Ah, so when she shared information gleaned for a “closed not classified” briefing about the potential for a worldwide pandemic with her husband, he took whatever she told him serious enough to cash out 3.5 million worth of stuck.
          What are the odds it was along the same lines of what she was tweeting to the public?
          Democrats have dangerously and intentionally misled the American people on #Coronavirus readiness.
          Here’s the truth: @realDonaldTrump & his administration are doing a great job working to keep Americans healthy & safe.

        • bmaz says:

          Here’s the truth: @realDonaldTrump & his administration are doing a great job working to keep Americans healthy & safe.

          Lol, what a load of crap.

        • Vicks says:

          Yep and I am sensing something nefarious about the way delay and distraction remains the M.O. in each step of the process long after the situation escalated to an undeniable crises.
          I’m suspecting that the plots being hatched while Trump is burning time with his moronic “happy talk” is going to make the grift that went on during Trump’s election campaign or the pure swampiness that lined the pockets of those on the receiving end of de-regulation or tax cuts will look like peanuts.
          This is more than money though. This is lives.
          I’m reading that “Depraved indifference” focuses on the risk created by the defendant’s conduct, not the injuries actually resulting.

    • harpie says:

      6] GOVERNORS
      9:27 AM · Mar 22, 2020

      IL Gov. JB Pritzker tells @jaketapper that fed inaction has forced states to compete “against each other” for supplies. “This should have been a coordinated effort by the federal government..It’s a Wild West out there .. We are overpaying for PPE because of that competition.”
      Pritzker: “We need millions of masks and hundreds of thousands of gowns and gloves and the rest. And unfortunately, we’re getting still just a fraction of that. So we’re out on the open market, competing for these items that we so badly need.”

      TRUMP responds:
      12:14 PM · Mar 22, 2020

      .@JBPritzker, Governor of Illinois, and a very small group of certain other Governors, together with Fake News @CNN & Concast (MSDNC), shouldn’t be blaming the Federal Government for their own shortcomings. We are there to back you up should you fail, and always will be!

  11. dude says:

    I saw the first CDC public service ads last night on cable—featuring the crowd that usually stands behind the Dondemort at his press briefings. I don’t watch that much TV. Have they been on long?

  12. B. W. says:

    Hello ~ Everyone, please read this post that I came across, detailing the “Coronavirus”. It is very eye opening. ~ Amazing how we suddenly have all kinds of money to be used for a “Stimulus” package and I can assume that we would have more then enough money for “Medicare for All” and other Safety Net Programs. ~ Even if they took just a fraction of money from our “bloated military budget” to pay for these programs, we would still have the biggest military budget in the world. ~ As Trump “makes everything up, as he goes along” and is doing nothing, Trump and his “minions” will have “blood on their hands” with many lives that will be needlessly lost. ~ If someone already has in the back of their mind or has already spoke it out loud, we just might have our very first “Coup” in the United States and remove Trump and put someone in his place to end this insanity. ~ How much more damage will be done to this country over the next 10 months while Trump is still in office and let’s hope he is voted out of office in Nov. 2020 because this country could not take 4 more years of Trump. ~ As you can now see, Trump and his “minions” and his family are the more then perfect examples of “Evil Personified” and they just “don’t care” about the suffering. ~ Trump and his administration and families greed is an “infinite pit” and our suffering is, of no concern to them and they will use the suffering to “dilute the power” of the people and there are more of us, then there are of them and we better rise up against them and all of the ‘robber barons” of this nation. ~ If we continue to have the “robber barons” in control, then we will
    never be free, until we realize how, we allow them to oppress us. ~
    ~ The rich and ultra-rich do need their taxes raised and pay
    their fair share because, history is repeating itself, and we are all
    witnessing the rise of the “Robber Barons”, once again. ~ These evil
    people engage in unethical and monopolistic practices, wielding
    widespread political influence, and amass “enormous wealth”, off the
    backs of the middle class, and the poor. ~ They go on to build their
    companies in the united states and yet feel “no obligation” to help
    repair the Infrastructure of this country, that they are using, such
    as roads, bridges, waterways, the ports, airports, water, sewerage,
    electric grid, natural gas pipelines, internet, etc.; etc. ~ They are
    a “Disgrace to Humanity” and they must be held to account for their
    mis-deeds and any money collected in taxes, will help the “less fortunate” of
    our country and help rebuild a nation and bring it into the future. ~

    • Valley girl says:

      I seem to remember that a zinc deficiency can cause loss of sense of taste and smell. irrc Rayne metioned Zn as a co=factor in some important pathway. Maybe their systems are using a lot of zinc somehow. Please forgive me or this quick off the cuff comment= but while I reread comments to see what Rayne said about zinc, please chime in.

      • Valley girl says:

        p.s. Doesn’t have to be cause and effect- but Zn deficiency is relatively rare normally.

      • Rayne says:

        Hey VG, nice to see you! Spot on with the zinc deficiency leading to loss of taste and smell.

        This explains the interest in anti-malarial chloroquine, but note especially the zinc:

        Med Cram video, Coronavirus Epidemic Update 34: US Cases Surge, Chloroquine & Zinc Treatment Combo, Italy Lockdown – Mar 10, 2020

        I need to go back and find in which of the Med Cram videos Dr. Seheult does all the pretty chalkboarding of COVID-2 and the ACE-2 receptor leading up to this video in which he discusses zinc (Zn2 blocks production of RNA-dependent RNA polymerase (RdRP, RDR) or RNA replicase, stopping the virus’s reproduction). Chloroquine aids transport of zinc into the cells. I understand the chalkboarding but I think it might be helpful for commenters to see how he got to the RdRP process just before the Zn2.

        If the virus screws with the body’s supply of zinc after a person becomes infected, transport of additional zinc will become even more critical. But there are so many unanswered questions we can’t simply jump on this and throw zinc at it.
        — With which strain are the asymptomatic cryptic cases infected?
        — Is this the same strain with which the worst cases are also infected?
        — Do both strains operate exactly the same way in that they may be blocked if there is enough Zn2 inside the cells?
        — Are there other factors which may affect Zn2 in patients with worst symptoms – i.e., pre-existing conditions, drugs treating those conditions, genetic or epigenetic traits affecting Zn2, so on.

        So many questions and peoples’ lives hanging in the balance as we play around with this.

        • Valley girl says:

          Thanks for stepping in with your excellent comments. I just watched the youtube you linked. It is a great “explainer”.

          I sped it up to 1.25 play speed- it’s a good trick to get through info quickly if you need to.

          Thanks for your incredible work here, Rayne.

        • Rayne says:

          No prob, VG, and thanks for the pointer about video speed. I forget to do that, more likely to hop through it until I find what I need.

          I’m wondering what it is about both rhinoviruses and coronaviruses which might cause the zinc deficiency. Is the body “throwing” its Zn2 at the viruses and depleting it, and the hyposmia (loss of smell) and anosmia (loss of taste), or are these folks borderline and flirting with zinc deficiency anyhow and the viruses merely push them over the edge? Guess we might learn more about rhinoviruses in the process.

          ADDER: Oh shit.

          Henkin RI, Schmidt L, Velicu I. Interleukin 6 in Hyposmia. JAMA Otolaryngol Head Neck Surg. 2013;139(7):728–734. doi:10.1001/jamaoto.2013.3392

          Guess that might answer my question.

    • harpie says:

      NY Times has this up now:

      Lost Sense of Smell May Be Peculiar Clue to Coronavirus
      Infection Doctor groups are recommending testing and isolation for people who lose their ability to smell and taste, even if they have no other symptoms.
      March 22, 2020 Updated 7:01 p.m.

      […] The American Academy of Otolaryngology on Sunday posted information on its website saying that mounting anecdotal evidence indicates that lost or reduced sense of smell and loss of taste are significant symptoms associated with Covid-19, and that they have been seen in patients who ultimately tested positive with no other symptoms. […]

      The link:

  13. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Instead of building MASH-type temporary hospital facilities – or renovating hospitals and wings that the private sector has closed to increase its profitability – Donald Trump is pressing forward with his most urgent electoral need: building 150 more miles of the WALL. No news on whether his current designs are more resistant to defeat with hand tools one could easily buy at a hardware store.

    Now would be a good time for the MSM to take Jay Rosen’s recommendations to heart. Stop airing Trump’s daily presser live. Broadcast it afterwards, airing only the speakers delivering important new facts, and sandwiching Trump’s most noteworthy lies between hard facts. Enough with the free air time for lie-filled campaign rallies.

  14. Anne says:

    I’m streaming RAInews24. A bunch of doctors have just arrived in Italy from Cuba.
    Think about that a minute.
    Also, if you go on the front page of, they’ve stopped travel between regions (with the usual exceptions). Stopping folks at the train station in Milano. A lot of people up north have “seconde case” in the south: like the Manhattan –> Hamptons situation, except that these are normal folks whose parents emigrated north in the sixties and who inherited Grandma’s house in some half-deserted town in Calabria.

  15. Anne says:

    Fifty-six doctors from Cuba just arrived at Fiumicino (airport of Roma).
    Some will arrive from Russia.
    Heard on rainews24 live streaming.

  16. Mosey says:

    “We are spirits in the material world

    There is no political solution
    To our troubled evolution
    Have no faith in constitution
    There is no bloody revolution

    We are spirits in the material world

    Our so-called leaders speak
    With words they try to jail you
    They subjugate the meek
    But it’s the rhetoric of failure

    Where does the answer lie?
    Living from day to day
    If it’s something we can’t buy
    There must be another way

    We are spirits in the material world”

    -Gordon Sumner, 1981

  17. Molly Pitcher says:

    According to the Washington Post, Karma is a Bitch:

    Paul (R-Ky.) tweeted that he is asymptomatic and was tested “out of an abundance of caution due to his extensive travel and events. He was not aware of any direct contact with any infected person.” He is self-quarantining.

  18. Anne says:

    rainews24, Italy especially Lombardia is starting to see a slowdown in number of new cases.

    Was a press conference at the headquarters of the Protezione Civile with Dr Borelli, head of the Consiglio Nazionale sorry I didn’t catch it exactly. Says that next week they expect to see (statistically) some results from the stay-home orders. But not yet.

  19. earlofhuntingdon says:

    If Trump can’t “find” the money to indefinitely delay student loan repayments, or to send the Army’s Corps of Engineers out to build temporary medical facilities for tens of thousands of patients, he hasn’t the money to give $500 billion to corporate America with no strings attached.

    As Robert Reich points out, the airline industry, for example, spent 96% of its free cash flow over the highly profitable past several years buying back its own shares. The purpose was to boost airline stock prices, which determine the value of senior executive compensation. It’s not an industry that deserves a break, nor do many, including quite a few large corporations which have paid little or no tax for years.

    Those who do need a break are their employees, millions of restaurant and hospitality workers, and the millions more who have been thrown into the self-employed “gig” economy, like ill-trained gladiators being thrown to the lions. Virtually every dime they would receive in emergency relief would be plowed back into the economy almost as soon as it was paid. That would keep people afloat, as well as the economy. The same would be true for every dime spent on extending affordable health care to average Americans.

    Any resources made available to corporate America should come with significant strings attached. No stock buy-backs, limits on executive comp, employment targets, mandatory benefits (paid sick leave and time off).

    Trump is not managing a crisis – he couldn’t manage his way out of a wet paper bag – so much as taking advantage of it. The House Dems need to stop that in its tracks.

    • Marinela says:

      Additionally, he is going to take bailout money because “his brand” is suffering, not making as much money as it should.
      Now he is going to inflate the value of his businesses for the purpose of using bailout money.
      And nobody can touch his tax returns to make sure he is paying taxes as expected.
      If these companies (him included) are taking bailout money should be returned back with interest, as they did for banks in 2008-2009 financial crisis.

    • r helder says:

      was chased by a bull moose while canoeing in canada’s quetico park! they can swim pretty fast as well, we barely got away from it

    • Sonso says:

      Saw a dozen moose ‘chilling’ yesterday in the snow. They look cuddly, but have very bad eyesight and react badly to proximity. Do not approach them-each year we have the same issue with people trying to pet bison. While the president is a racist SOB, the Chinese tourism industry in the US will drop to zero this year and a number of intermountain west towns will suffer (even while they indulge any localized racism they have for non-whites).

  20. Molly Pitcher says:

    According to the NYT:

    Chancellor Angela Merkel is self-isolating after a doctor she saw last week was infected.

  21. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Sen. Rand Paul deserves the best taxpayer-funded health care services available to any unemployed or homeless person in his home state. Anything more would be a moral hazard, because it would give him too little skin in the game.

    Besides, this Covid-19 thingy is a vastly over-hyped hoax put out by Democrats, who want to destroy His Majesty, Donald Trump I. Sen. Paul should refuse all treatment. He should keep working out in his home gym. He should invite his Senate GOP brethren to join him and to stay with him, to prove how wrong the Democrats are about everything and to reinvigorate their bonds.

  22. Ollie says:

    omg I’m falling apart. I just read that the gop want to give treasury steve m. control of $500b to give out to unidentified multicorporations and not have to reveal details for 6 mos. Well we all know what they’d do to us if (and how dare us) wanted to know who got what and how much, why they would laugh in our faces. First time shame on you! 2nd time? Fuck me and us. We’ve been observing and commenting on a chess match that’s been being played since trump moved in and as most of us know here, we’re losing. I’ve been stuck inside for going on 14 days and going crazy which for a RECLUSE like me I have to ask myself: Ollie? You LOVE being alone so why are you sobbing? I’m scared cause I have run out of hope. I took some rso, gummies and am smoking a blunt. I’ve never liked alcohol so fuck me, this is fortunate. I was getting desperate not having anyone I can call up and talk w/about this crap. My neighbor is moving and for the last 2 years, ever since they’ve moved here, I’ve stuck my finger thru the fence for a nice juicy lick from their german shepard Denali and then she’d get a big ole huge milkbone treat.
    big sigh. I’ve finally stopped cryiing and I feel safer now. I love EW and the people here. bmaz. his crankiness is like comfort: it’s trustworthy.

    • Jenny says:

      Ollie, crying is a cleaner. Just let your emotions go and flow. Healthier to express emotions rather than suppress emotions. It is normal to feel scared. We are in unknown territory.

      You are feeling so much that is being expressed by the collective consciousness. I understand. The other day I cried and cried which helped to release the stress I was feeling. Also got on line to see where I could donate to help others. Helping others helps the self to feel better by giving back. We are here to help one another. This is a time to give and receive, receive and give.

      You are not alone. You are supported by many individuals who share your concerns. Moving through the thoughts and feelings helps one to get to the other side embracing change and hope for the common good.

      Sending you good vibrations.

      • Jenny says:

        Ollie, for me baking is therapeutic. I made chocolate cupcakes with vanilla icing for my 90 year old father. He loved them. Also made Carrot Muffins for myself and neighbors. They loved them. Next to bake Coconut Cookies with Fleur de Sel.

        So, enjoying the scrumptious bakes I am making to share with others.

        • Ollie says:

          Oh. funny. Well I’m fat. I’ve always been athletic, slim very fit. Right? Well My hip went bad and I started laying around AND marijuana became legal. Oh. Boy. Did. I. Eat. Oh my. LOL. I’m a BIG girl, LOL. So anyway. Baking ? Oh girl! BTW Ihd’ have you know I have a can of Pillsbury Orange Rolls and I’m going to eat all of them . HAHAHAHAHA I’m 70 too and I just don’t give a fuck. sorry. I’ve really come thru a very emotional last 3 hrs . I’m better. Back to reading and breathing.

    • Rayne says:

      You do realize, I hope, that this February 2019 study looked at SARS and not COVID-19.

      I’m not a virologist or a microbiologist, but this study appears to say that an immunoglobulin G (IgG) antibody intended to attack the spike protein on the SARS coronavirus — the protein by which the virus attacks cells — didn’t work but instead prompted the body (its macrophages) to attack itself, increasing inflammation (cytokine response). The researchers did learn more about the progression of the virus’s attack on the body and the body’s response.

      It appears to me the researchers learned a two-pronged approach may require careful balancing between halting the virus’s ability to reproduce and ward off an excess of inflammation at the same time. The inflammation is what kills the patients and can happen even when the virus is being attacked.

      If somebody else with more medical/biology background can look at the study honeybee shared I’d appreciate it.

  23. harpie says:

    This is from 30 minutes ago…who is this person talking about?

    I watched […] press conference in despair. In a public health emergency communication and information saves lives. Yet time & again the Government keeps failing to push out a strong clear message to everyone. For all our sakes they urgently need to get a grip.

  24. Ollie says:

    and it’s finally here: trump says he doesn’t want to use DPA because he says the history for Nationalization is bad for companies. There it is. Done. The whole fucking thing. I’m in a nightmare, right? This is horror that I feel inside that my fav Horror author, Stephen King, has never come close to creating what I feel right now. omg. aflcio head is speaking tonight. I saw him earlier on cspan and HE.IS.PISSED. I mean he was fit to be tied and was barely holding back. It aired right after washington journal ended this am. Steve the WJ host, a reporter interview and it’s a solid 1/2 hr. look it up it’s a must watch. I’ll try and find it and link it.

    the senate has failed to advance the coronovirus rescue bill….thank god the people are going to unite. I can feel it…

    • P J Evans says:

      He has NO EFFING CLUE. It isn’t nationalizing them in the way he sees to believe it is. It’s about getting the stuff done so it can be seen where it’s desperately needed. (Which isn’t just the red states.)

      • vicks says:

        I disagree.
        I think Trump knows EXACTLY what he is doing.
        The opportunities for friends and family to get a piece of the action during this crises will only be limited by their imaginations.
        Federal contracts will be too easy to police.
        This is a win win for Trump.
        If letting the foxes into the hen house, combined with using taxpayer money to reward those who agree to support him isn’t enough to win re-election, Trump is sure as hell is going to get rich trying.

        • Pajaro says:

          I think you’re on to it. Grifter moment extraordinaire. However, the odds are pretty good that some of his friends and family will succumb to the fatal side of the virus and not live to see the rewards.

        • Vicks says:

          Yeah, in the old days I would have to go to confession for some of my thoughts.
          I was listening to Trump answer a question on remote votes for those in congress out sick or in quarantine.
          He was all for it.
          My immediate thoughts were of the ass-h*les that go to CPAC and lawmakers competing for Trump’s attention by wearing gas masks, tweeting their stupidity from crowded restaurants showing their maga loyalty by refusing to stop shaking hand with each other.
          I was thinking hell no, this could be the great equalizer this country has been waiting for.

    • ducktree says:

      equally scawy… Dean Koontz …

      Hell, Ray Bradbury for that matter . . . who said he wasn’t trying to predict the future, but prevent it!

    • Rayne says:

      Did you get the feeling Trump didn’t want to nationalize the effort because he was afraid sometime in the near future Trump organization would be nationalized?

      He fucked with the public for days about the DPA and then pulled his punches, calling this a war but then not using the arsenal of democracy. This is total bullshit. I hope governors and major manufacturers are figuring out the lay of the land here: Trump is an active threat to the nation’s well being.

    • Judy says:

      I think the show you are referring to is Newmakers on CSPAN . Guests were Richard Trumpka of the AFL-CIO and Nathan Bomey of USA Today. I would post link but am unsure of rules about that.
      Also, a big thanks to those who posted links to YouTube music parodies I needed a good laugh.
      I work at a big box store and yesterday and I helped a man buying 12 inch insulated ducting. He was wearing protective gear and had a medical i.d. I commented they must be setting up an emergency area and he said yes. I think about it and start crying. There are only 7 reported cases where I live but know there are way more. Part of me feels lucky to be able to still go to work and part of me wants to just curl up.

      • Ollie says:

        Hey Judy yeah…..It was the Newsmakers on cspan but I posted it here later. I am sharing w/you Judy that I had the same experience, just a simple comment and I get a nanosec of reality and I cry. Thank you again for providing us w/more info on that. I appreciate you.

      • Rayne says:

        Your reaction is perfectly normal, Judy. Helping the man buying ducting gave you an insight most Americans won’t have into both what is required to handle this crisis and how personal the crisis it is — it’s touched you and your customer directly.

        I’ll see if I can find the video you referred to and add it to your comment. Hang in there.

  25. Edward Hall says:

    There is a solution to the pandemic that is very dark but effective Shelter in place. Die in place. We are past the point of handling this crisis. Give people 24 hours to get to their home or essential place of work. If you have shelter water food electricity and telecommunications you can survive 14 days in place Give the military and police lethal authority to stop anyone on public property. At most you can move within your city block. Touch the sidewalk suffer the deadly consequences. Firefighters can still do their jobs and add the displaced to a new family unit. Use what little PPE we have to remove the dead. Give that family unit supplies to get through the next 17 days. After 14 days Everyone else has 3 days to restock and repeat the process. Then evaluate. This is war. What the aftermath of 911 taught us is that the first responders did not heed the prime directive “ danger of further injury to yourself or others”. It would have been horrible for the individual’s psychologically to stand down instead of reach out to help. Post 911 analysis shows that in the moment the well reasoned plan of action to not become a casualty did not register in the moment. These heroes lost their lives in vain sadly. We need to bite the bullet NOW. It is only going to get worse If any of you have the contacts to present this idea to those in power with dialogue not I responded emails please do Humanity is dependent on you speaking to those capable of enacting this plan. We are all going to lose loved ones. Let’s lessen that toll by taking the only action that will work now. Godspeed my friends

    • bmaz says:

      That is absolutely sick and demented. We don’t allow that here, do not return with anything like that ever again.

    • vicks says:

      and here we go…..
      I am going to take Edward seriously and suggest he may be reaching out for help.
      We may see a lot more folks that don’t have the coping skills that many of us take for granted.
      We also may see a rise in people that have a need to entertain themselves.
      Edward, you have been heard, and as you can see from the responses most people do not agree with your assessment of the situation.
      If these thoughts seem real to you and you can’t shake them PLEASE stop posting on sites that can’t help you, and look for places that can.
      The sites are there. Help is there, use your energy to find them.
      If your a troll, it’s time for some self reflection, there is help for that too.

    • Raven Eye says:

      Well. After that I almost felt like looking for a video of the 1959 version of “On The Beach”.

    • Rayne says:

      Humanity’s future is dependent on rational thought, listening to and heeding experts, caring for others.

      If you can’t do that, concentrate on taking care of yourself and not getting in others’ way.

      This includes not publishing fatalistic screed which isn’t intended to help others.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      A man drowning in a pool refuses to put his feet on the bottom or grab the side, and instead clutches at a razor blade. No thanks.

  26. Tom says:

    Millions of people across the country are fearful of what every little cough, sneeze, or elevated temperature might mean, but what Trump feels badly about is that no-one has ever thanked him for not taking his Presidential salary, if we can believe he hasn’t. Even as his fellow Americans were dying from the COVID-19 virus, he went on and on at the presser this afternoon about all the money he was losing because he chose to run for President back in 2016. A truly bizarre performance. I can’t wait to see the documentary that I hope Michael Moore will make of this whole catastrophe.

    • P J Evans says:

      You notice he never mentions the very-much-larger amount of money he gets paid for his golf excursions, and from the people going to “his” places to get attention and favors.

    • Vicks says:

      No one has thanked him?
      Have you ever wondered over to the fox website?

      I will admit that this is probably one of the few times Trump has ever spent (his own) money, to make money, but that bone he throws out every quarter is probably the best investment he has ever made

  27. greengiant says:

    This talk by a researcher at Harvard School of Public Health that Rayne pointed to is interesting.
    Their message/agenda was that the number of cases transmitted by each new case went from 3.88 to 1.25 to 0.32 in Wuhan.
    My take away is that the current Cuomo stay at home lockdown may get the R down to 1.25 or lower but will not be enough.
    Wuhan stayed with a more severe lockdown only two weeks before really shutting the city down and concentrating people with non severe symptoms in makeshift hospitals, and people potentially exposed in hotels and dormitories where they did not need to expose each other. As in the US now, the cases cluster around families and leaving people at home who have been exposed is asking for trouble if they go out to buy food. I hope NYC has no more cases now than Wuhan did on January 23rd.

  28. orionATL says:

    on Monday march 9, 2020 there were about 600 reported cases of covid-19 in the u.s.

    on monday march 16 there were about 4,000 cases.

    today, march 23, there are about 33,000 cases being reported.

    that is quite some growth in two weeks, but it is certain to seriously underestimates the actual number of cases this nation of 330 million has because it only measures those who were authorized to be tested by having certain symptoms – those of the covid virus. in other words, this is biased testing.

    “how many cases do we really have?” takes us back to the central issue of lack of tests, and, lying behind that, lack of federal preparedness despite an avalanche of high-level intelligence warnings given to president trump and his team beginning in january:

    our president has, in effect, engaged in the childish behavior of putting his hands over his eyes to avoid seeing something unpleasant to him.

    so far as I know, we still do not have any testing regimens in which medical personnel go out into the general population and randomly test for the presence of the virus, e.g., testing all residents at 5000 randomly selected household and apartment addresses in a medium-sized American city (i am not familiar with the protocols for medical testing in a population, so this is just my guess on how it might be done).

  29. harpie says:

    Trump signals an economic pivot on coronavirus shutdowns
    Trump and some of his senior officials are losing patience with the doctors’ orders.
    3/23/20 [Three hours ago]

    […] Between the lines: Senior Trump officials, including the president himself, have only limited patience for keeping the economy shut down. They are watching stocks tumble and unemployment skyrocket.

    What’s next: At the end of the 15-day period, there will likely be a serious clash between the public health experts — who will almost certainly favor a longer period of nationwide social distancing and quarantining — versus the president and his economic and political aides, who are anxious to restart the economy. […]

    • harpie says:
      8:27 AM · Mar 23, 2020

      There is a growing feeling within the president’s immediate circle that, in efforts to rebut criticisms that Trump had acted too slowly, they had let the medical professionals set policy that impacted the economy, per two ppl familiar with the discussions [link]

      Trump Says Coronavirus Cure Cannot ‘Be Worse Than the Problem Itself’
      The president, who has watched the economy plunge amid social distancing measures, says restrictions will be reassessed.
      March 23, 2020 Updated 8:36 a.m.

    • harpie says:

      Mckay Coppins observes:
      8:41 AM · Mar 23, 2020

      Some of this is already happening, obviously, but it seems like very soon, social distancing is going to be treated by many primarily as a political act—a way of signaling which “side” you’re on.

      …to which Steve Vladeck responds:
      9:20 AM · Mar 23, 2020

      It’s worse than that: We’re heading for a scenario where tribalism drives not only personal choices but jurisdiction-wide *policies*, as well. Some states will continue to pursue aggressive #COVIDー19 suppression measures while others sit back. The results could be horrifying.

    • harpie says:

      Trump Bets Business Will Answer Call to Fight Virus, but Strategy Bewilders Firms
      It remains unclear if the effort to enlist companies like General Motors, Apple and Hanes constitutes an effective strategy.
      March 22, 2020

      […] The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the heads of major corporations have lobbied the administration against using the [Defense Production] act. They say the move could prove counterproductive, imposing red tape on companies precisely when they need flexibility to deal with closed borders and shuttered factories.

      Mr. Trump and the director of his national economic council, Larry Kudlow, as well as Mr. Kushner, were persuaded by those arguments, administration officials said. […]

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        “Red tape” my ass. Corporate America does not want to be told what to do, especially on an issue where the law and virtually all Americans would be on the government’s side. Nor does it want strings attached, such as price constraints, limits on retooling charges, clawbacks for not complying with restrictions, or public disclosure. It also hates the precedent, which visibly makes government and the public interest more important than private corporate gain.

        The red tape canard is as bad as the argument that the cure could be worse than the disease. It’s an argument for the status quo, for normalizing Trump’s behavior, and for doing nothing. That’s so pre-Covid-19 infection Rand Paul.

        Cruelly, Trump can’t manage his way out of a paper bag, exactly when assertive, creative management is most needed. Were there anyone in this administration who could competently impose it, the administration should quickly assert its authority under the DPA.

        • BobCon says:

          US Chamber of Commerce was a destructive force all through the Obama years, in two different ways.

          First, they were a key force behind the reactionary GOP wave that fought the stimulus and Obamacare, kneecapping member corporations who would have benefitted from expansive policies in favor of rigid alignment with the GOP.

          Then the reactionaries began their demogoguery against immigration — despite the Chamber’s prioritization of better laws — and began a policy of tanking the recovery through government shutdowns and debt ceiling games. The Chamber decided at that point to withdraw from GOP elections and visible PR, deciding instead to go the Susan Collins route of sighs and murmurs.

          Most of corporate America has been clobbered twice in the past 12 years by the Chamber’s incompetence and ideology. But corporate America is such a clubby place that they would rather watch their businesses collapse than challenge a worthless, harmful institution. They never learn.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          The first rule of being an insider, is never talk about another insider, or reveal the weaknesses of insider thought.

    • harpie says:

      9:59 PM · Mar 22, 2020

      Extreme measures to flatten the virus “curve” is sensible-for a time-to stretch out the strain on health infrastructure. But crushing the economy, jobs and morale is also a health issue-and beyond. Within a very few weeks let those with a lower risk to the disease return to work.

      Cheryl Rofer retweeted this response to LLOYD, and I agree with it:
      12:21 AM · Mar 23, 2020

      The “maybe let’s just go back to work next week” sentiment isn’t just Trump being uniquely bad. A lot of oligarchs have, probably not wrongly, calculated that the expansion of the welfare state necessary to sustain public health measures is more dangerous to them than mass death.

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        I think that last quote is on the money. That sort of expansion would be an existential threat not to them, but to their world view: People are only what they buy and how often, and no more. They vote every few years, sometimes, and that should be the limit of their political involvement. The more economically precarious their lives, the more dependent they are on whatever jobs and terms businesses choose to offer, and the less they represent a political or economic threat to business.

        People are vastly more than that. Perhaps this health-economic-political-social crisis will help them realize and act on that. Because if government fails to work for them now, it will never work for them. That’s the standard to which they should hold their political representatives accountable.

    • greengiant says:

      TLDR: MSNBC was a day behind WHO, WHO was 2 days behind rest of world.
      Sometimes the earliest figures are those announced by the respective countries and reported in the media. Sometimes the media will transpose digits or otherwise get them wrong.
      Then John Hopkins or other sites pick them up.. The private sites like John Hopkins have erred sometimes. In the US some state numbers are from the total reports of the previous day. In some states I suspect the county health authorities are feeding the state numbers. The CDC and the WHO are the least timely. Someone could compare Spanish and Italian health ministry reports with the WHO reports. I see the March 22 Who report with data from March 21 shows 12784 deaths Italy 4827., Italy 5476 19 hours ago.

  30. Fran of the North says:

    Ironic that you posted on the topic of death panels, as that very thought came to me this weekend while staying busy around the house. Every triage decision made by health workers resulting in death is owned the GOP.

    They started paying for it with Reagan’s joke ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help’ through that snake Norquist’s attempts to starve the government into submission. The payments only accelerated in the past dozen years.

    On happier topics, cooking is a passion, and this weekend was home made pasta on Saturday, and Home Run Inn style butter crust pizza last night.

    Sandwiched in between was 3 batches of beer. 2 for my house, one for my neighbor. If you’re going to be locked down, you may as well have some ethanol to calm the nerves.

  31. Tom says:

    Listening to President Trump’s presser yesterday, I had the impression he’s back to minimizing the impact of this pandemic and how long it will last. I don’t recall his words exactly, but he referred to new tests and new drugs, that the situation might be over sooner than anyone expects, and that the economy will bounce back bigger than ever because of all the pent-up demand for goods and services. As an example, he used the unfortunate phrasing that, “people are dying to go out to restaurants again.” Trump described the economy as having been “sidetracked” by the COVID-19 virus, as if we were just experiencing a bit of a speed bump rather than an upheaval possibly leading to a global depression. Trump also seems to be hoping that two weeks of social distancing will be the miracle cure for the current crisis. He repeatedly described the country as being at war with “the invisible enemy”, yet the whole tone of his remarks was that the boys will be home for Christmas. I think that at the first sign the spread of the virus is slowing down, Trump will declare victory and encourage everyone to get back to normal, little realizing how much work there will still be to be done.

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