The Role of Trump’s Incitement in Providing Violent Foot Soldiers [Updated]

As I’ve covered, in addition to a conspiracy charge tying Zip-Tie Guy’s actions to his mother’s cheering of violence, the government has thus far charged two sets of defendants from organized gangs in the January 6 insurrection — three members of the Oath Keepers and two of the Proud Boys. While Proud Boy Dominic Pezzola is charged with assault for his efforts to steal the police shield he used to bash open a window, his co-defendant William Pepe and most other defendants identified as Proud Boys were not charged with assault (Robert Gieswein, who was indicted on his own, did allegedly assault cops with a baseball bat; he appears in videos with the Proud Boys that day, though was not identified as such in his charging documents).

Thus far at least, the most violent actions from that day aren’t known to have been perpetrated by the right wing militias, members of which appear to have, instead, channeled the violence of others, possibly while pursuing more tactical goals (like locating members of Congress).

That makes the way in which the government describes that other violence important, as it may or may not tie everything together (and tie it back to those who incited the violence).

Take Emanuel Jackson, a 20-year old black guy from DC who was twice caught assaulting cops on video. First, he was caught on film punching a cop, an assault which charging documents describe helped break the police line allowing others to stream in.

The defendant, EMANUEL JACKSON, is observed on U.S. Capitol video surveillance footage making a fist and repeatedly striking a U.S. Capitol Police officer on his person while attempting to forcefully enter the building. United States Capitol Police officers are designated as officers of the United States under 18 U.S.C. 1114.

At approximately 2:48 p.m., the large crowd that was being restrained by law enforcement overpowered the officers and gained entry. One of the first individuals observed entering the doorway is the defendant.

Then, later that day, he attempted to get back into the Capitol wielding a baseball bat.

At 4:50 p.m., the violent and aggressive crowd continued to confront law enforcement at the West Terrace entrance. The crowd was armed with various weapons and multiple individuals are observed assaulting law enforcement in the entranceway. The defendant is clearly observed in surveillance video of this entrance, wearing the same clothing described above and observed in earlier footage, and armed with a metal baseball bat. The defendant is observed repeatedly striking a group of both U.S. Capitol and Metropolitan Police Department uniformed officers with the baseball bat.

These two alleged assaults happening two hours after each other, the first unarmed, the second armed, attest to the sustained violence of the riot, as well as a possible intensification of it as violence came to incorporate additional weapons. Over those two hours, Rudy Giuliani was calling Senators asking for delay.

While Jackson did have a backpack on him during the riot, there’s nothing in Jackson’s file that suggests any organizational affiliation with known extremist groups (nor is there any explanation of why a 20-year old black guy would ruin his life for Donald Trump). According to a government detention motion, in an interview, Jackson described attending Trump’s rally and going from there to the Capitol.

During the defendant’s post-arrest interview, he clearly articulated that he attended former President Trump’s rally earlier that day, and that he joined the thousands of individuals who descended on the U.S. Capitol to protest the election results.

That ties his later actions to the events at the rally.

That’s important, because Jackson confessed that his goal in storming the Capitol was to delay the counting of the vote (and he was charged with obstructing an official proceeding as a result, which itself carries a steep sentence if violence is involved).

During the interview, the defendant stated that his purpose in joining the violent mob was to enter the U.S. Capitol and disrupt the vote count of the Electoral College as it met to certify the results of the 2020 Presidential Election. Thus the defendant combined his criminal intention to interfere with the functioning of Congress with multiple violent assaults – one with a dangerous weapon – on the law enforcement officers trying to protect that function.

The detention motion describes how his initial assault made it possible for him and others to storm the building.

The defendant was part of a group that tore out windows, ripped open the blocked entrance, and then physically attacked law enforcement in an effort to gain entry. The law enforcement officers are in full uniform with the word “police” clearly visible. At approximately 2:48 p.m., the defendant is observed physically striking a law enforcement officer with his fist. The punching continues for several strikes and seconds later, the mob forces their way into the entranceway and overruns the group of law enforcement officers. The defendant’s assaultive behavior in part allowed the large mob of individuals to successfully breach the U.S. Capitol, putting additional law enforcement officers and members and staff of Congress at grave risk. The defendant’s actions allowed other rioters to commit multiple other criminal acts inside the building.

So at least on this thin record, it appears that Jackson went to the rally, got riled up to disrupt the certification of the vote, and then took repeated violent actions in service of doing just that. As the detention motion describes, Jackson was one spoke in a wheel that together thwarted democracy.

The defendant was a spoke in the wheel that caused the historic events of January 6, 2021,

On January 27, Jackson’s attorney asked for a one month continuance, with the government’s consent. That generally indicates the defendant is preparing to plead before indictment (which isn’t surprising given that, before he got a lawyer, Jackson confessed to his assaults).

That means it’s possible that by the time Trump’s impeachment trial starts, Emanuel Jackson will have pled guilty to being inspired by Donald Trump to halt the vote certification, walking down Pennsylvania Avenue and then assaulting two cops in an effort to help Trump steal the election.

Update:  Hunter Seefried, whose dad was the one caught carrying a Confederate flag through the Capitol, played a key role in cleaning out the window many streamed through. The father and son pair marched over after listening to Trump.

Defendant Kevin Seefried told law enforcement that he had traveled with his family from Delaware to the District of Columbia to hear President Trump speak and that he and Hunter Seefried participated in a march from the White House to the Capitol led by an individual with a bull horn.

Finally, I have reviewed video footage posted to Twitter which shows Hunter Seefried punching out glass in a window in the Capitol complex after people adjacent to him in the crowd broke it with a wooden 2 x 4. Kevin Seefried confirmed to law enforcement agents that Hunter Seefried was asked by an individual unknown to the Seefrieds to assist with clearing the window because Hunter Seefried was wearing gloves. After Hunter Seefried complied, people from the crowd outside, to include the Seefrieds, were able to access the interior of the Capitol Building.

Barton Wade Shively, a former Marine who admitted to assaulting several cops, also came down for the rally and then walked to the Capitol afterwards.

During the interview, SHIVELY admitted to driving to Washington, D.C. with friends to attend the Trump rally on January 6, 2021. SHIVELY further stated that he and his friends walked to the U.S. Capitol grounds and that a significant number of protestors broke through the first set of barricades. After which, SHIVELY explained that he was in the back of the crowd, but once the barricades were broken down by other rioters, SHIVELY walked over the broken-down police barriers and up the U.S. Capitol steps where law enforcement officers were standing protecting the U.S. Capitol. SHIVELY stated that when he confronted the law enforcement officers, he was pushed back, SHIVELY admitted he became angered at that time. SHIVELY admitted “I got caught up in the moment.” and grabbed a police officer by his jacket and began yelling at the officer.


During the interview with agents, SHIVELY admitted to a second incident physical and assaultive encounter with law enforcement officers. SHIVELY stated he was walking down a line of officers who were protecting the U.S. Capitol from rioters, when an officer repeatedly pushed SHIVELY with his baton and commanded SHIVELY to move away. SHIVELY admitted to punching the officer on the officer’s riot helmet.

180 replies
  1. Desider says:

    Plus presumably a fast confession/plea deal this week might “inspire”/provide evidence on others to fess up about back channel activities of Trump and other higher ups as needed for the trial and those obstinate Republican holdouts.

    • emptywheel says:

      It’s not clear whether he knows of any. It really might just be a slamdunk case–again, he confessed–and his lawyer’s recognition that pleading will make things less painful.

      • Chris.EL says:

        From emptywheel dot net:

        … “That means it’s possible that by the time Trump’s impeachment trial starts, Emanuel Jackson will have pled guilty to being inspired by Donald Trump to halt the vote certification, walking down Pennsylvania Avenue and then assaulting two cops in an effort to help Trump steal the election.”
        From Twitter:
        “Steve Vladeck
        “By insisting that his lawyers argue to the Senate that the election really *was* “stolen,” Trump isn’t just refusing to contest the *actual* ground on which he was impeached (that he incited the violence on January 6); he’s effectively arguing that the violence was *justified.*”
        6:26 am January 31, 2021

        It’s early, I’m trying to present this idea coherently.

        Fundamentally, Trump MUST APPEAR AND BE SWORN!!!

        Will that happen??

        If Trump makes such a statement as Prof. Vladeck proposes, …”effectively arguing that the violence was *justified*”
        … doesn’t that amount to a CONFESSION AND A PLEA OF GUILTY?

        If the plea is GUILTY AS CHARGED — might that render a vote by the Senate MOOT?

        Skip the guilty/not guilty part of the proceeding and go to the next item to be determined!

        Why not?

        An argument can be set forth, I think, why this is proper!

        This is all new territory, isn’t it?

        • Peterr says:

          No, this is not a confession by Trump of what he did, but an effort to justify the acts of others.

          Trump isn’t saying he wanted the rioters to go and be violent, but that the use of violence was justified because of the election fraud.

          • Chris.EL says:

            IANAL … plus ’tis not an overwhelming characteristic of my personality to be argumentative or to “pick fights.”

            I enjoy truth. I enjoy justice and human rights.

            So, to quote a character from Quentin Tarantino’s “Inglourious Basterds”: “Nien! Nien! Nien!
            Nien! Nien!” (while pounding the table with a fist…)

            Didn’t Trump voice phrases such as “Fight!!”
            Couldn’t it be said that by “refusing to contest the actual ground” that course of action amounts to conceding as a point of fact, or stipulation as to truth?

            The mob’s actions followed Trump’s actions; plus Trump *refused* to give any encouragement or direction to stop and/or be peaceful.

            Just some thoughts…

          • Norskeflamthrower says:

            “No, this is not a confession by Trump of what he did but an effort to justify the acts of others…” that he incited to “fight like hell” and promised to march with them. Sorry Peterr, but if our legal system can not convict someone, anyone, of conspiracy and incitement to sedition with actions like this then we don’t have a legal system.

          • timbo says:

            In other words, it is the reverse… where the pleaing witness—Jackson—is more likely to be a witness at Trump’s trial than the other way ’round?

  2. harpie says:

    Over those two hours [bet. 2:48 and 4:50], Rudy Giuliani was calling Senators asking for delay.

    Even before that, TRUMP called [at LEAST] Tuberville:

    2:10 PM (est.) Trump calls Sen. Tommy Tuberville (R-AL) around this time, before senators were evacuated, but reached Sen. Mike Lee’s (R-UT) phone. Lee handed his cell phone to Tuberville who spoke with Giuliani Trump briefly.

    Here’s a link for that.
    10:23 PM · Jan 6, 2021

    • harpie says:

      Here’s the CORRECT link [uggg]:
      7:08 PM · Jan 7, 2021
      From the article linked at that tweet:

      With a mob of election protesters laying siege to the U.S. Capitol, Sen. Mike Lee had just ended a prayer with some of his colleagues in the Senate chamber when his cellphone rang.

      Caller ID showed the call originated from the White House. Lee thought it might be national security adviser Robert O’Brien, with whom he’d been playing phone tag on an unrelated issue. It wasn’t O’Brien. It was President Donald Trump.

      “How’s it going, Tommy?” the president asked.
      Taken a little aback, Lee said this isn’t Tommy.
      “Well, who is this? Trump asked. “It’s Mike Lee,” the senator replied. “Oh, hi Mike. I called Tommy.”

      • harpie says:

        I guess this is how I deduced the time…so that’s why it’s “estimated”.

        Tuberville and Trump talked for about five to 10 minutes, Lee said, adding that he stood nearby because he didn’t want to lose his cellphone in the commotion. The two were still talking when panicked police ordered the Capitol to be evacuated because people had breached security.

        • emptywheel says:


          You likely first read about this at a site called emptywheel dot net, which also described the second call Rudy made that day, too.

          • harpie says:

            OY! I wouldn’t be surprised…and should have known,
            because that’s the wonderful place where I get most of my information.
            Sorry about the wasted space, here.

      • BobCon says:

        I am completely unsurprised by the classic jerk move of dialing the wrong number and then complaining to the person on the other end as if it is their fault.

        Never apologize, never admit fault, never acknowledge what happened.

        • Chris.EL says:

          Well, we have Big D**k Toilet Seats; an enterprising entrepreneur needs to introduce the Fat Fingers Cell Phone — Trump and Giuliani both need one.

          Frankly, I think they deliberately “mis-dialed” to obfuscate the evidence linking them to calls.

        • Stacey says:

          Ha! I thought the same thing!, BobCon

          Who dials the wrong number and tells the person who answers “I called someone else”????

          I’d be like “No, Dumbass, you obviously called ME!” and make him admit he MEANT to call someone else before I’d give the phone (Which I would put to record) over to the other dude. I’m just kind of spiteful like that when dealing with people who only have Dick Moves to offer–you know, especially while I was hiding in an office from an angry mob that HE incited to come kill all of us!

          How unmoored humans can get from anything sane just continues to astound me!

    • PeterS says:

      The earliest call mentioned here is about 2 pm. And we know the calls carried on into the evening, because of that long voicemail Rudy left for Tuberville. But presumably the calls began way earlier, probably that morning and in the days leading up to 6 January?

      I’d guess Trump began asking his “friends” in Congress to object to states, and thus delay certification, from soon after the Electoral College vote. For example, Hawley announced he’d be objecting on 30 December.

      Chaos and delay was the strategy all along.

  3. jerryy says:

    There was a gallows humor joke going around just after the seditious events occured:
    “No sooner than Coach Tuberville join Congress, the defense folds”.

    Suppose they had succeeded, they occupy the Halls of congress, murder various representatives and senators and stop the election count. What comes next? At that point it is safe to say that Congress has fallen and two points jump out:

    1.) The dollar’s value crashes. That is what happens when a government falls, its currency also falls. keep in mind the dollar is not backed by stacks of gold bars in vaults scattered around the country, it is backed by government issued securities, which have not value if the government backing them are not longer in operation. So, your checking, savings, money market accounts are all next to worthless. As is that stocks and bonds markets.

    2.) You property titles (house, land, car, rv, boat, business, etc.) are also gone. These are backed — given power — by the government as well. At one point, Spain split the land that would later become the US into parts and issued Spanish Land Grant Titles. Ask their descendants how that has worked out.

    No, it would probably not be instant Somalia in action, your state and local governments would be still be sort of functioning, but things would not be good.

    • cavenewt says:

      Those would be side effects. But what was the purpose of all this?

      One interesting speculation is that Trump wanted there to be so much chaos that he could declare martial law and thereby become the military dictator of his dreams.

        • cavenewt says:

          Exactly. And, for what it’s worth, the pillow guy’s notes. I actually saw this proposed as a possible motive in a serious security blog. The question is, did Trump consider this? His actions during the insurrection suggest so.

          What we really need is for at least one, and preferably multiple, knowledgeable insiders to come forward. Someday, maybe. Look how long it took Deep Throat.

      • PeterS says:

        What have you read to suggest that declaring martial law was a plausible strategy? How exactly would that have worked? (Mr MyPillow is not an authoritative source)

        • cavenewt says:

          Hopefully this site is reputable—I’m willing to be chastised if not.

          First is this story from December 22:

          Following Flynn’s public remarks, the idea of a military coup took shape in earnest last Friday, when the president met with Flynn and Flynn’s (and the Trump campaign’s) former lawyer, Sidney Powell, as well as with executive branch staff, to discuss various methods for overturning the results of the election, including the use of martial law. Trump reportedly asked Flynn to spell out his proposal during the meeting.

          The legal vehicle the president would likely hope to use is the Insurrection Act, an 1807 law that allows the president to federalize the national guard in order to “suppress” an insurrection.

          Then this one on January 11, different authors:

          It can’t have simply been the coercion of the two Houses meeting to accept the electoral slates presented and certified by the states. No demonstration—no riot—could have done that. Chaos and mayhem might have temporarily interrupted proceedings by our representatives but they wouldn’t have changed any votes in Trump’s favor, indeed quite the contrary.

          No, I believe it’s more plausible that the president wanted further confrontation— the more violent, the better. What he’d hoped for was an excuse to declare an emergency, evacuate the Capitol, halt all proceedings and even invoke the Insurrection Act. This is why once the demonstration turned violent and the Capitol itself was attacked, the president studiedly did not call for his supporters to cease the “home invasion” of America’s historic house of representative government. His refusal has baffled many of his admirers and officials, but it was really quite essential if his most desperate hopes were to be realized.

          As to how would it have actually worked? Who can say with these people.

          • bmaz says:

            Just Security is not only reputable, several of their founders and editors are friends of us here. Not speaking as to any single article, but linking Just Security, whether you agree with it or not, is always fine here. Just say why, either way.

          • PeterS says:

            Thank you kindly (and I’m not really into chastisement). I read the first article as saying the martial law strategy wasn’t really plausible; the second article was more speculative. No doubt Trump and Flynn entertained some wild ideas, but whether those ideas had any chance of becoming reality is another story.

    • Nehoa says:

      I respectfully disagree that the dollar and property values would collapse if Congress were to “fall” to the insurrectionists. Unless the main body of law enforcement/national guard/military were backing the insurrectionists, the effect would be limited to a disruption of Congressional activities for a period of time.

      • ThomasH says:

        I recall some discussion coming from former European Union officials that if the coup had succeeded the EU, and other governments as well, would impose economic sanctions on the new regime.

      • Wajim says:

        And I entirely agree with you. These mooks, including Trump, Rudy, et al, never thought this through. They never do as thinking is hard. Reminds me of that famous New Yorker cartoon, with the “scientist” writing his equations on a blackboard and the connection between the premise and the solution is “then a miracle happens,” for which science to its everlasting shame, has no scientific notation for, apparently. C’mon people!

      • jerryy says:

        This was not one person being removed from power (along the lines of a death while in office including assassination, or by legal means such as impeachment). That would be a disruption, regrettable even tragic, but not an impediment for day to day governmental operation. This was not a natural disaster, such as an earthquake or tornado or fire where having law enforcement / military step in helps the civil authorities give aid.

        This was aimed at removal of an entire unit of government, that is destruction. If the military / law enforcement stepped in to maintain order, the very real possibility of a military regime comes into play.

    • Cherie Clark says:

      Interesting or downright spooky when you look at it from this perspective, I’m sure some of the Trump fans would have been quite devastated to realize they had lost everything. I lived in Viet Nam in the 70’s during the “fall of Saigon” and this is exactly what happened. The banks closed and we lost everything and also the beautiful house that we had bought at such a bargain the year before was suddenly no longer ours and is to this day is owned by the government and serves as a school. I assumed that here in the US it wouldn’t have been so dramatic, if Trump had succeeded with the plan he so obviously had all laid out, and hopefully we never have to know for certain. Gives me shivers to contemplate!

      • Wajim says:

        I have a pretty good idea why your house was such a bargain around that time. Did the sellers quickly flee the country after closing?

    • timbo says:

      We’d likely be in a civil war, with factions within the military backing various sides and agendas. You have to understand that the danger of just this is what continues to make Constitutional norms more likely than not. It is why the Joint Chiefs signed a document assuring that there would be a Constitutional transition and supporting Biden’s valid claim to the Presidency. I assume you noted this at the time—it was incredibly important to calm things down. And now one must assume that those same Chiefs of the services are looking for seditionists amongst the commissioned officer ranks of all the services. That is what must be done to maintain civilian rule and not plunge the country into the downward spiral.

    • R. Stanton Scott says:

      Certainly killing or incapacitating several Members of the House or Senators would create an interesting scenario with respect to what happens next, but I would not say it’s “safe to say that Congress has fallen,” whatever that means. Congress might have new majorities in the House and Senate, but it would still exist and still have the task of counting the Electoral Votes that made Joe Biden President.

      I can imagine a scenario where both suddenly have GOP majorities that might be willing to reject some EVs, but I’m not sure they would actually pull the trigger on this given the way those majorities came to exist. Further, in many states Governors can appoint replacements pending special elections, so in the end it depends on which House and Senate Members survive the attack, which States they come from, and what the political mood of the country looks like after the event.

      So I strongly doubt this means the complete collapse of US currency, and since States and their Courts protect things like the validity of titles I doubt that the deed to my house or the title to my vehicle would just vanish into thin air.

      Since this comment is already too long, I’ll touch only briefly on the “invoke the Insurrection Act and mobilize the National Guard to keep me in power” concept by pointing out that the US military is a huge beast and might not (and in this case I think WOULD not) act as one here. California’s NG might respond differently than Arkansas’ for example, and in my opinion (formed from 20 years of military service) the active duty military forces would definitely not play. Something like a third of all enlisted service members are non-white, after all, and it’s hard to imagine the brass asking them to support a white supremacist takeover of the US Government.

      I don’t think it helps to get alarmist on these things without thinking through the mechanics of just how an actual overthrow of the US government would happen. In my opinion it won’t happen through an extrajudicial military coup. If and when it happens it will come from within through capture of the institutions like the Courts using more or less legal means. Just my two cents.

      • jerryy says:

        The idea that the mob would only kill a select few and then stop is interesting, but that is not usually how mobs work. We have plenty of examples in our own history to show otherwise, Rosewood and Oklahoma, etc. etc. Unfortunately, once the blood starts flowing, it flows. The business of the legislature is more than just the daily antics of being part of Hollywood East. Once that is gone, government is missing a vital part.

        As I mentioned, the dollar is backed by government issued securities. These are held by various groups, some of those are countries. Its value is high because it is seen as a stable investment. But that is a twitchy market, once panic sets in, those investors pull their money and put it in other places, other countries. We have seen this before during lesser crises. Recently back during the 911 crises, Japan essentially rescued the dollar by not asking for a large payment it was due. One large debt holder gets upset with a government that is not stable and then a run on the dollar crashes the value. The dollar is also traded as a commodity against other currencies, that market has a say in its value.

        The power of the states to protect its citizens’ properties is derived from the powers granted to those states by the federal government. Not to mention federal agencies like HUD, etc. control the outcomes of those properties transactions. The states may be able to protect a few, but without monies to pay its police and national guards (controlled by the feds by the way) how long before ‘nice house if you can keep it’?

        • timbo says:

          It appears that they weren’t going to stop until Pompeo was next in line for POTUS… from what one can gather from the rhetoric of the rioters themselves on Jan 6…

      • cavenewt says:

        Since this comment is already too long, I’ll touch only briefly on the “invoke the Insurrection Act and mobilize the National Guard to keep me in power” concept by pointing out that the US military is a huge beast and might not (and in this case I think WOULD not) act as one here.

        I didn’t see anybody thinking it had a chance of actually working. But I think it’s important to remember that the people who may have been planning this are demonstrably deluded about a lot of things, which makes them extra dangerous.

  4. Vinnie Gambone says:

    I am just baffled that while FBI and DHS admitted DVE were biggest threat to America that there was no law enforcement undercover activities, and there was no monitoring, electric or otherwise, going on. Why? Surely they had every reason to believe this would turn violent. Marcy’s comment s about un-towed vehicles screams out as well. One they realized they could break parking laws, guess they figured anything goes. Colossal failures from the Parking Authority up to FBI and DHS. They knew it was coming and did nothing nothing. They’re pretty busy now though . 150 arrest and still counting. Wild,huh?

      • harpie says:

        Yes, especially since we now know that the indicted Oath Keepers were expecting an an unnamed co-conspirator identified only as “Person 3”, with a companion, to drive up from NC carrying a lot of weapons and equipment.

        That way the [NC] boys don’t have to schlep weps [weapons] on the bus. He’ll bring them in his truck the day before.”

        Also, Oath Keepers changed into tactical gear on the way from the speech to the Capitol. Where did they do that?

          • Stacey says:

            Yeah, I wonder how long it will take our new Federal Govt to figure out that if BLM doesn’t have a good enough point for NOT giving police departments all of our military surplus boy-toys, then maybe the fact that you never know when one of these police department types is also an overthrow the government type and can use all that shit against you, sinks in!

            And now we see exactly why the government’s broader interests are better aligned with the society’s least politically powerful and not it’s most politically powerful–at least for a good long-run interest. The next local insurrection attempt will be a terrible time to find out that your local law enforcement has been watching YouTube videos about how to drive that AWAC and now they’re coming for YOU!

        • Ginevra diBenci says:

          rosalind’s untowed cars observation, the OKs’ change into tactical gear–these belong on the crowdsourced timeline. Eureka, harpie and Rayne, that project seems more critical than ever; it’s already a repository of intelligence (in every sense) I’ve been turning to again and again. Is there a way to keep it going–without comments turning off–perhaps broken into two parts, with part one including everything before noon/midnight on 6 January 21, and part two everything after?

        • cavenewt says:

          Also, Ziptie Guy and his mom “stashed their weapons outside the Capitol building”.

          Where, in the bushes?

          • emptywheel says:

            I’ve been thinking about that and suspect it’s one reason why the govt believes there’s something more there. They were staying at the Grand Hyatt, but they were stashing weapons somewhere else? Really?

      • rosalind says:

        Marcy has been hitting the untowed cars point the last couple of days, and yes I covered it in the comment cavenewt linked in my crowd control security post a couple weeks back.

        for those who participated in that great discussion, by coincidence one of the longtime BGP staffers, Bob Barsotti, was just interviewed by rock photographer Jay Blakesberg. Bob talks about the Bluecoat Security team and Bill’s philosphy that security is about “talking people out of doing stupid things” at the 2:07 mark. Lots of great stuff for fans of Winterland and Oakland Auditorium and Day on the Greens among other venues.

        • Wajim says:

          As a veteran of at least 5 “Day on the Green” lollapaloozas (hey, can’t recall everything from that era, and a rather purple haze it was, what with acid vendors with signs wandering through the crowd), I appreciate the link. Maybe it was 6. I remember the last one with Ozzy and Randy Rhodes just before the plane crash, I think. Crap, gettin’ old. I do recall tickets were like 6 to 9 bucks. ‘Thim were the days . . .

      • skua says:

        Those who served in Afghanistan and Iraq would AIUI know of the dangers that parked vehicles in crowded locations pose when there is violence by insurgents.

        It seems very unlikely that insurgent-types would park vehicles containing necessary gear unless they were confident of the vehicle being there when needed.
        maybe they were made aware that they wouldn’t be towed before the contents were needed.
        (See below: posaune says: January 31, 2021 at 7:42 pm Typically in DC, illegally parked vehicles are ticketed (and towed) at 4:00 pm, EVERY week day…)

        Allowing these people reliable gear dumps/staging posts would enable them in whatever their goals were. Possible goals included sufficient violence/killing to trigger the imposition of martial law. That level of violence could have occured both with explosive vehicles and after the USCP were over-run.

        • timbo says:

          How did the cops find this vehicle is my question? Was it illegally parked and therefore a sore thumb during a riot at the Capitol I wonder…?

    • posaune says:

      Typically in DC, illegally parked vehicles are ticketed (and towed) at 4:00 pm, EVERY week day (huge source of revenue). On the streets around the Mall, Ellipse, Capitol Bldg, the cars are frequently just pulled (out of the parking lane) up over the curb onto the grass panel between the sidewalk and the curb (this area is part of the street ROW). The cars are booted and it’s up to the owner to attend to it when returning. This is the typical ticketing scenario. I’m guessing they decided not to bring the tow trucks in b/c traffic/pedestrians, that the surrounding streets were closed, or they didn’t have the drivers that day. Someone, somewhere made the explicit decision NOT to ticket or two that day.

      • timbo says:

        Might not be the best time to be a parking ticketer during a violent riot—so maybe no tickets that day because it was too dangerous around 4PM?

  5. jaango says:

    Today, there are over 8,000 Hispanic and Elected Officials, and not one of these “officials” have been interviewed by both the larger and smaller media outlets, thusly, the Journalism Industry, has effectively demonstrated that no Hispanic, elected person or otherwise, should be “concerned” regardless of this “insurrection” or “sedition.”

    Consequently, only Hispanic Elected Officials should be permitted to be part and parcel to the soon to be established Jury Pool. Therefore, “white” privilege, as not being practiced, should be put on notice that one-third of total population, should have a voice, regarding today’s apportionment of Justice.

    Of course, this, or my posting is “off-topic” on this subject matter, but then, being a tireless and patient person, I am looking forward to the next twenty years, and to the onslaught of Mandatory Voting. Hate will deemed irrelevant and where it does raise its ugly head, or a blind eye to political violence, will “demonstrates” its future political positioning.

    • BobCon says:

      Many, many Hispanic elected officials have been interviewed by the media.

      Carlos Gimenez, Mario Diaz-Balart, Maria Elvira Salazar, Mike Garcia, and Tony Gonzales have all been interviewed, for example.

      But if the “jury pool” was limited to them, if members of Congress like those reps and Rafael Edward Cruz and Marco Rubio could wave a magic wand, we would see the majority of hispanic and non-hispanic votes thrown out and Trump reinstalled as president.

    • timbo says:

      What garbage. You apparently have ignored all evidence of such interviews and/or have come here specifically to lie to us all. Get a grip. And go use Google to find out how wrong you are… before coming here with this utter garbage.

  6. What Constitution? says:

    There was an insurrection at the Capitol, not a cotillion. I respectfully take issue with only one word in Dr. EW’s summary, but I think it’s a huge disservice to suggest characterizing the evidence of this individual’s criminal participation as “thin”. The evidence described is overwhelming. It’s friggin’ monstrous. And he went back for a metal baseball bat to engage in more of it.

    The use of the term “thin” in this context could not be suffered unless in the context of arguing that this guy didn’t personally commit “all” the criminal acts that day. But acting criminally as part of an insurrectionist mob should never be excused on the ground that “others were there too”. In fact, these kinds of actions publicly exhort and embolden others to similarly act. He allegedly beat police officers with his fists, broke windows and doors in the United States Capitol Building in order to facilitate interference with a constitutionally-based act of the United States Senate, and some two hours later was still at it with a baseball bat. Bye bye.

    It’s not good enough to single out a few cartoon characters wearing horns and face paint, which seems to be tailing off now in favor of evaluating what the others were doing too. But a mob acting individually and collectively as thugs who are stupid and self-centered enough to allow charlatan politicians to whip them into a feces-flinging, beat-with-an-American-flag-pole and cattle-prod buying and wielding frenzy under the banner of a Confederate flag while chanting “where’s Pence” and/or stealing United States representatives’ computers to sell to the Russians (because, you know, “real Americans”), is in fact the kind of thing that is worth stopping and worth penalizing. It’s also worth reminding the Republican Party about as it apparently is choosing to adopt and endorse this path as a party platform lo these two weeks later.

    So let’s watch Mr. Former President — whose latest crop of “lawyers” have now all quit because this deposed waste of oxygen is sitting down at Mar-a-lago seeing he might get away with professing to believe that his Republican sychophants really are interested in hearing him continue to spout seditionist bullshit that he’s totally, completely and obviously unable to prove, even with more than 60 lawsuits thrown against the wall (which doesn’t matter if you yell it loudly and often enough, right?) — come back and demonstrate his especially evil brand of narcissism in the impeachment trial. Then banish him from further political participation in the United States of America. Then try him criminally in court(s).

    And his henchmen/acolytes/sychophants broke the law, and the law needs to be enforced upon them for their actions. The guy specifically discussed in this post, and the others, all of them, who did this to America. For all of us.

    • Troutwaxer says:

      “…I think it’s a huge disservice to suggest characterizing the evidence of this individual’s criminal participation as “thin”. The evidence described is overwhelming. It’s friggin’ monstrous. And he went back for a metal baseball bat to engage in more of it.”

      One hundred percent agree. The later parts of your post are a little incoherent, I think because you’re so angry – and justifiably so – but your first paragraph is outstandingly good. (Yes, I’m a pedant, so sue me, like I was Guiliani and you were a voting machine company!)

      • timbo says:

        It most certainly was a riot. The issue legally is whether it was directed or not. It certainly appears to have been incited. And the purpose of it does certainly seem to have been sedition.

    • Ginevra diBenci says:

      Dr. EW’s use of “thin” read to me as characterizing the public record’s failure to answer the question she had posed about this individual: ” . . . (nor is there any explanation of why a 20-year old black guy would ruin his life for Donald Trump.)” It is worth noting that Trump’s support rose among Black male voters in 2020 compared to 2016. And there are women who want to be Proud Boys. Humans have a perverse tendency to crave the approval of those who reject them.

      • Stacey says:

        “Humans have a perverse tendency to crave the approval of those who reject them.”

        That is all I can figure, too, to explain the most insane actions against interest I’ve ever seen in humans!

        To watch this weird Stockholm Syndrome thing play out writ large for 5 years now is just amazing! I’ver heard law professors say that they could teach an entire criminal law course based on Trump’s time in office and cover most of the criminal code, I maintain the Psych101 class would be pretty damn interesting as well if you just used TrumpCo as your case study material.

        • Ginevra diBenci says:

          Ever since very early in 2016, when I started noticing an uptick in reports of both bullying and suicides, I have been trying to understand the embrace of Trump by those whom he demonstrably despises. I agree, Stacey: Psych 101 syllabi could be organized around Trumpism. So too could advanced courses in the psychology of crowds, the myths that undergird “nationalism,” and many other topics I hope we will investigate in future years. I try to stay in my lane*, but it’s hard sometimes not to veer off!
          *(media criticism, specifically “true-crime” productions)

          • Stacey says:

            Yes, and if we do NOT spend a long, in-depth and concerted effort as to how we got here and how we work our way out of it mile by mile, we will in deed fall further into it. And I mean in a society wide manner.

            Germany’s path out of the collective psycho-hole they fell into has been traversed by calling it out, teaching their children what they did, exploring publicly what they did and what they now know about themselves and human nature to avoid doing it again. Michael Moore’s movie “Who to Invade Next” spends a bit of time in Germany on this topic and is well worth the watch of an actually very good movie/documentary. But that segment was very powerful!

    • emptywheel says:

      I used “thin” to describe a record that doesn’t include the transcript of his interview, doesn’t include his social media content, doesn’t include his home address, doesn’t include his social network, all of which the FBI surely has. Every court filing is always, necessarily, a selection of facts to include. Here, they’ve included just a few data points. All utterly damning, but not all that DOJ knows and not all we’d need to — for example — explain why a 20 year old black guy just ruined his life for Donald Trump.

      • Ginevra diBenci says:

        Dr. EW, I’m sorry if it seemed like I was treating Mr. Jackson as representative of a demographic. I completely agree that learning why he made the choices he did is essential to understanding his affiliation. I just wanted to remind everyone (including myself) that he is not the only Black man to cast his lot with Trump. More did so in the form of votes than in 2016, which is a very different choice than violent insurrection. FWIW, I’m guessing Jackson’s age probably had a lot to do with his susceptibility to radicalization, but that might just be that 20 seems really young to me.

  7. JamesJoyce says:

    We were all taught about Anne, holed up in a attic.

    Congressional Leaders and VP must have just loved the “Mob” mentality marauding Congress as they were seeking refuge in congressional offices.

    Public Shame worked in Germany quite well in 1945 moving forward. The inoculations against fascism in Europe have wained and here in America inoculations are gone as Corona-COVID did not exist.

    Grievances expressed with violence, not words tend to be illegitimate when there are guardrails.

    Auschwitz and the US Capitol sadly have a common thread.

    Grievances expressed with violence resulting in one death or untold numbers are all “crime scenes.”

    Loyalist true believers will fall on Trump’s sword’s blinded by his “Miestenguizen,” no different than in 1933.

    Anne never should have suffered death by obscene imposition as members of Congress might have or a Capital Police Officer did at the hands of modern day Brownshirts, assaulting Congress as a Reichstag once Burned.

    Irene Butter has seen this all before as have many.

    I have..

    This not a time for silence.
    Trump must be culled by conviction as Hitler wasn’t.

    Trump will come back more deadly like the second or third waves of mutated deadly viruses 🦠 if he is not forever banded from holding any office of trust in this republic.

    This is a warning ⚠️!!
    You have been warned..

    • Just Bill says:

      Great comment JJ.

      MTW, Bmaz and all the insightful posters here are for me most valuable and appreciated. Thank you all.

  8. Fran of the North says:

    In the criminal complaint against Gieswein linked by EW above, the affiant describes Gieswein as having orange tape on his helmet.

    Orange tape and ribbons have been described elsewhere as having been identifiers signaling to others attired in similar fashion that they are part of a larger entity. I’d imagine that his location and social media postings since the election are getting quite a bit of scrutiny.

    • PhoneInducedPinkEye says:

      I think we are going to see future domestic terrorists who are less blase about what they plot on social media. They might take a page out of the modern insurgent playbook and start using couriers to pass messages.

      • Fran of the North says:

        Yeah, the fact that somebody actually might not affirm that they were doing this, and worse, that LE would actually arrest and charge people has got to be making them rethink their comms tactics.

    • vvv says:

      I saw a photo somewhere of the Oat Eaters meeting just before the insurrection and all wearing orange stocking caps.

    • John Paul Jones says:

      There was a video linked in the comments section of a previous post about the use of bits of orange masking tape placed on some peoples’ coats, hats, etc., so that these people could identify one another. The point of the video was that these folks posted themselves at the front of the crowds, and behaved in a co-ordinated way to try and take down barricades, distract police from what they were doing, and as well verbally whip up the crowd to follow through. The video also distinguished this rather small group (8-10 people?) from the Proud Boys with their orange hats.

      Took me a while, but I found the YouTube video. Not widely seen or shared, and I’m not sure that the whole analysis holds up, particularly towards the end when it all dissolves into chaos, but interesting.

  9. cavenewt says:

    Sorry if this has already been posted. The letter pictured, from Chris Miller, is dated January 4 and is in response to the Secretary of the Army’s request (also January 4) for National Guard support for the planned rallies of January 5-6.

    The orders from Miller to the DC National Guard for January 6 included in linked article— is a must read. The DC guard were allowed no helmets, no body armor, no weapons. They were not allowed to stop or arrest protesters. Letter orders no interference with rioters…

    • N.E. Brigand says:

      I think Dr. Wheeler referred to this article on Twitter today, where she also noted several news outlets’ timelines of events on January 6, and she herself highlight a few items on those timelines, including the fact that the first of the two pipe bombs was discovered by RNC headquarters at 12:45 p.m. and the Proud Boys began advancing on the Capitol at 1:00 p.m. What do we know about who exactly found the first bomb? The former Capitol police chief has said he believes the bombs were diversions meant to draw some law enforcement away from the Capitol. And we since have learned that the bombs were placed the previous evening. A diversion is no good if nobody knows about it for 16 hours. Did the bomber just get lucky that someone found the devices just as the crowd was moving in? Or did he have someone alert the police to the bombs?

      • Stacey says:

        The report I saw on one of the MSNBC evening shows was that someone that lived in the building next to the RNC went down that alleyway between the buildings heading toward a laundry facility and saw the bomb and alerted a local building attendant/security person and that within a few minutes of that bomb squads etc were in route and 1/2 an hour or so later the other one at the sister DNC building was found, having been searched BECAUSE of the RNC bomb discovery. They were functional and appeared to be not timed but set to go off with a triggering mechanism like a cell phone.

        So it appears they were discovered prior to the intended timing for the diversion, would be my guess.

      • John Paul Jones says:

        Reports have suggested that the timers failed, and also that they were egg timers. Photos I saw on the news showed white plastic ones, with a wind-up dial, so the max time they could be set for is probably 60 minutes. This suggests they were supposed to go off in the night. Video of the suspect doesn’t show a face but there’s something about the gait which suggests to me either a teenaged girl or boy, rather than an adult. The bomb builder and the bomb planter could of course be different individuals.

    • P J Evans says:

      During the Rodney King riots, the Guard was deployed in parts of L.A., armed, but without ammunition.

      • greengiant says:

        Would help to have a list of the recent Guard deployments in the US.

        Way back in 1965 Watts riots the Guard was armed. A few years later one Guard member told me he had killed someone in self defense.

    • cavenewt says:

      This entire Twitter thread is worth a read. Starts with

      The acting Secretary of Defense appears to have intentionally removed the authority of the D.C. National Guard to leave the Capitol undefended.

      Was this coup d’état Trump’s plan all throughout the campaign in 2020? Open source evidence suggests it.

      There are lots of sources and stuff cited, including this about Kyle Rittenhouse.

      Federal law enforcement was told to create sympathy around a cold-blooded killer, to make him seem like a positive or even patriotic figure…
      Trump’s co-conspirators instructed government professionals to push a narrative of Rittenhouse committing murder in self-defense – before the courts had any chance to act as triers of fact.

      All this in the face of evidence that paramilitaries were deploying on U.S. soil.

      It concludes

      Just from open source information, it appears that there was a year-long conspiracy to hide the threat of violent right-wing paramilitaries while hyping a fake threat from the Left because Trump knew he could never win the election, so a coup d’état was the only answer.

      I hope I linked that Twitter thread correctly. I’m still trying to figure Twitter out; incidentally, I am highly resentful of the fact that despite having successfully avoided Twitter for the last four years, January 6 made me finally dive in, because standard news cycles are just too sluggish. Thanks, T****.

      • N.E. Brigand says:

        FYI, while this doesn’t mean he’s wrong, you might like to know that Eric Garland has a pretty poor reputation among regular journalists.* Probably not as bad as Louise Mensch, but far worse than, say, Seth Abramson, who himself is judged unfavorably by a lot of mainstream reporters.

        Garland burst onto the scene in December 2016 with a long tweet thread about Trump and Russia that launched a thousand “time for some game theory” memes. I don’t believe his theories ever became as unhinged as Mensch’s (in the space of a few months in early 2017, she went from writing an op-ed in the New York Times about questions Congress should ask James Comey to claiming that Steve Bannon had secretly been indicted for treason by “the marshal of the Supreme Court” (or something like that) and faced the death penalty), but as time went on and the Mueller investigation seemed unlikely to succeed, Garland grew increasingly erratic.

        *examples here:

  10. Stacey says:

    Trump is such a mindfuck!

    He’s lost his attorney’s, I’m guessing because they aren’t going to risk their law licenses by arguing false facts under oath, about the election being stolen from Trump. But Trump’s argument against being charged with inciting the riot is to claim that the rioters were justified in their violent acts BECAUSE the election was stolen from HIM, therefore he shouldn’t be held accountable for inciting them because they agree the election was stolen from him–which he can’t get anyone but himself to argue under oath?

    I sure don’t want us to be back in the Mueller trap regarding that conspiracy, which amounts to “the Russians and Trump were naturally ideologically aligned therefore not conspiring to destroy America only because no actual conspiring needed to occur”.

    In this case, (an analogy) Trump trenches out the ground to direct water from a huge reservoir toward a low-lying town he’d like to destroy and then argues that someone should hold as much water in the reservoir as possible until it breaks out at the weakened edge and when all of the water goes out the place HE weakened it and follows the trenches HE made to the town, he gets to claim he didn’t drown the town, the WATER did? He didn’t conspire to this outcome, he just did everything he could possibly do to get all of that water/energy to go exactly where he wanted/had trenched it to go.

    I know nobody thinks of Trump as intelligent, but Sociopaths have a whole different type of intelligence that should be respected and laws should be written to capture, the way RICO laws were written to deal with mob activity. At the end of the day, the Republican Party is a racketeering organization–whether that could be legally proven is NOT my point, just my observation of apparent fact.

    • Terry Sawyer says:

      Trump’s former impeachment lawyers seemed inclined to be heading towards a procedural defense on the order of, “The impeachment is moot because T is out of office.”
      T demands they argue the merits, “the election was stolen.”
      Does that mean T is ready to abandon the technical defense as to inciting sedition and proceed to a trial on the merits of that issue?

      I think that would be a good result, provided the Congress applies rules of evidence and doesn’t just air the conspiracy theories.
      If in fact, the election somehow was stolen, Congress needs to examine that and fashion a remedy. A future candidate may demand relief from, perhaps, a successful hack of electronic voting machines. A hard no today could redound to the benefit of future conspirators.
      On the more likely other hand, the Constitution provides a remedy for for sedition. A full trial on that will educate a lot of people whose minds are still open

      • P J Evans says:

        A lot of states used mail-in ballots, which can be hand-counted, and the states/counties do audit the results. So far there haven’t been problems with counting.

      • greengiant says:

        The GOP had their 60 some odd court cases. Trump and his buddies have been flat out making lies about elections since 2016.
        The GOP and Trump do not get another day in court on the 2020 election. The GOP is just trying steal black votes to scam their base.
        I don’t think there are any more teachable moments for the 40 million people who support stealing black votes. They will just age out. They are died hard nut jobs who don’t want the Dems to take their money etc. Selfish, greedy Covid denialists who can’t confront a new reality where some businesses just can not operate in a pandemic.
        “If in fact the election were stolen” You are on drugs. If you believe one statement from the GOP you are lost.

      • Vicks says:

        I think both Trump’s options suck.
        His lawyers can either get up there and knowingly tell lies and when prosecutors shoot them down end up just presenting more examples of what Trump was willing to do to stay in power, or, they can get up there and claim that according to the constitution, even though Trump was impeached while still in office, the Senate doesn’t have the right to hold a trial.
        One of the few things I could find the constitution saying about the topic of impeachment is that “the senate shall have the sole power to try ALL impeachments”
        Seems to me, Trump doesn’t get a vote here, and the senate can do whatever it wants?

      • cavenewt says:

        I think that would be a good result, provided the Congress applies rules of evidence and doesn’t just air the conspiracy theories.
        If in fact, the election somehow was stolen, Congress needs to examine that and fashion a remedy.

        This isn’t the same as a regular trial, so the rules of evidence might not apply. In their 60+ court cases, his lawyers never even *tried* to claim fraud because they had *no evidence*. The question of a stolen election has been more than sufficiently covered in regular courts and has no business in the impeachment.

        Not to mention the whole thing about the impeachment not being about a stolen election but about incitement to insurrection.

        So arguing the election was stolen doesn’t make any sense at all, except we all know Trump would welcome another chance to air his batshit theories, plus garner attention and continue his fundraising.

        The trouble is, the devoted Trumpers will believe him no matter what. At some point Earth 1 is just going to have to cut them loose (looking at you, Republicans afraid of being primaried) and, except for prosecuting them, don’t give them any more oxygen. The history of the KKK might provide some guidance.

  11. x174 says:

    i’m glad to see the fbi burning a lot of shoe leather (and eyeballs) on tracking down the ostensible thousands of distinct individuals but as can be seen from many of the above comments, it would be far more gratifying and strategic to track down all of those in congress, the military, and law enforcement involved in trump’s failed coup. giuliani’s attempted communications with tuberville seem particularly egregious as his attempt to make the process as dilatory as possible could had significantly upped the body count had the trump morons been more successful. whatever happened to the boebert or someone gave tours at the capitol (during a pandemic) the day before narrative? seems to have taken a back seat, or is being investigated in camera. hopefully, some of those involved will be outed during the impeachment trial. boy, the gop certainly seems confused, frantic, and lashing out over fears that the trial will expose them further. thanks for the bottom up analysis. certainly needs to be done. i just worry that those most responsible–like trump’s extended crime family–will slink away, once again!

    • harpie says:

      Thanks for this gathering of data points, X174.

      [Garland]: SUMMARY:
      Just from open source information, it appears that there was a year-long conspiracy to hide the threat of violent right-wing paramilitaries while hyping a fake threat from the Left because Trump knew he could never win the election, so a coup d’état was the only answer.

    • PeterS says:

      If there is a seditious conspiracy it began way earlier. For example, Trump said this back in August: “the only way we’re going to lose this election is if the election is rigged”. Similar statements followed, all emphatic rejections of democracy.

  12. tinao says:

    Jeebuz C-span’s great right now, Senate confirmation hearings at homelandsecurity for Christ’s sakes!

  13. Eureka says:

    [I’d already written up descriptions of these Jones Capitol clips when the other page timed out; placing them here]

    ** < 1 minute Clip of Jones (with Alexander) before they leave for Capitol **

    Alex Jones TURNS On Q In Humiliating Meltdown – YouTube
    Jan 14, 2021
    7:39 length video
    The Majority Report w/ Sam Seder

    • Seder and guests first discuss the infighting between the Jones and Q crowds [clip from Jones' show], how Jones started the rwnj pedo obsession now resents Q/ competing for his business base audience

    • ~4:24-5:20 Capitol 1/6 Jones clip (AA w long black coat; recall he wears orange top on 1/5).

    • Jones on megaphone trying to get people's attention, "listen to me" repeatedly

    • then Alexander (2nd person standing to Jones' left) directs Jones, in a leaned-back aside — "hey do a chant [inaudible] chant [inaudible, possibly incl "USA"…] {while gesturing inward to his face, closing in a hand towards himself like a ~ pulling them in/pull in the crowd motion} **

    • "USA" chants

    • then Jones returns to what he had wanted to say, starts over with "listen to me" […] again and says:

    "We've got a permit on the other side.

    It's great that this happened but the cops not gonna come and be takin this over [note: ???]

    we're not antifa, we're not BLM

    you're amazing I love ya, let's march around to the other side

    and let's not fight the police, and give the system what they want."

    cont. from:

    • Eureka says:

      ** Jones video walking up grass of Hill nearly at Capitol [“fuckin cops”; asked about Pence] **

      :33 second clip. Help with transcribing appreciated: I can’t hear it well on my system. Did the best I could w/parts:

      [Parler Video Dump] Conspiracy theorist Alex Jones heads from the rally to Capitol building, staff member goes to talk to cops to get “Alex up there” : ParlerWatch

      • Jones, flanked by security, crowd (incl in front of him, leading), walks up the Hill approaching Capitol.

      ** brief blare of walkie-talkie communication **

      • Chattering about ~ not getting into it with the cops/ Jones says “fuckin cops”:

      Jones: If those cops [? attack you] [at the perimeter?] /vs/ [activate the perimeter] stop fucking with em. [Someone near Jones says a word(s) twice as Jones is talking, the word(s) sounded like military]

      It’s not good, it’s just not good. Fuckin cops .. fuckin back off man ~~ no reason to [—-] and attack em [???]

      {unclear at this point if Jones is criticizing cops for “attacking” protestors or vice versa but the tone had turned, and the tone of “fuckin cops” wasn’t favorable — whether towards (the idea of) people attacking the cops or the cops themselves}

      • Someone asks Jones about Pence. This person seems to be filming (intending to broadcast the reply).

      Person: Hey alex — whadaya got […] ~ how’s our Vice President’s doin?

      Jones: [Pause] Uh he he – he floundered [odd head chuff turn] and was neutral. He passed the ball.

      [person who seems to be questioner makes inaudible comment]

      • Then talk of “take a break right here” so staff person can “Go talk to those cops to see if I can get Alex up there”

      One assumes he is aware that he is being filmed, is practiced at his dark arts, wants his grandstanding/showman moment as at GA Capitol (and to later claim surprise or outrage at what actually took place).

      • Eureka says:

        Meanwhile, back at the ranch: the big lie, the stab in the back; blamelessness-inevitability (but exculpation of Jones just in case):

        Infowars guest host [HARISON SMITH] praises “patriots” who are trying to violently take over the US Capitol Building | Media Matters for America
        From the January 6, 2021, edition of Infowars’ The Alex Jones Show

        This is not a drill. “Trump supporters breaching all security barriers are now actively destroying and occupying the Capitol Building.” This is incredible. Two buildings of the U.S. Capitol complex evacuated as Trump supporters clash with the police. Flashbangs being fired over the front lines into the crowd of Trump supporters. But it seems like those attempts to prevent the onrush of patriots has failed.

        Alex Jones is right now at the scene. They are sort of on the edge. We are receiving intermittent streams from them as the cell phone networks are overloaded and information becomes harder to come by. What we know is that Alex Jones and [Infowars host] Owen Shroyer are not at the head of this. They are not the ones breaking into the capitol. But they are there on the periphery watching this, receiving this information in real time.

        This is what happens when Americans rise up. This is what happens when patriots do what the communists have been trying to do for so long. Again, this is not an impotent pointless nonsense protest based off misinformation like [BLM] …

        We always knew in the back of our minds, in the back of our heads, we had the numbers, we had the will. We could through the electoral process maintain some semblance of control over what is supposed to be our representative democracy, our republic. Well, they stole that from us. They took away the final lifeline. They destroyed the final pressure valve, and now the rage of the American people overflows as patriots storm into the United States Capitol, waving Trump flags, waving American flags, waving the Gadsen flag, taking over the steps, pushing through the doors and forcing an evacuation of our representatives as they halt the vote counting process.

    • Eureka says:

      Sounds like Jones is worried:

      Alex Jones: Trump and I were set up by the Secret Service to be blamed for January 6 insurrection violence | Media Matters for America
      Published 02/01/21 4:28 PM EST

      From the January 31, 2021, edition of Infowars’ The Alex Jones Show

      ALEX JONES (HOST): Here’s the thing — I’ve been doing this so long, I just know what they’re going to do now. I just know. I mean, ask, how do you know? It’s called wisdom. It’s called knowledge. But as much knowledge as I have, I deferred my responsibility in my brain on the 6th, and I went and let Trump and the Secret Service be in charge, and the Secret Service, whoever was in command of it, set us up. And because I deferred to the president and deferred — the president should by asking, “Why was there not Secret Service? Why was there nobody at the Capitol? Why did I say Jones believes in peaceful protest and already hundreds” — because they set him up.

      So as much as I know — I was expecting a mass shooting or a bombing that day to blame us. They did have pipe bombs. But instead they just provocateured the siege, got what they wanted, had their victory. So as much as I know, I don’t know. But I do know about the enemy’s big moves, and I do understand it.

      emphasis added

  14. Eureka says:

    Do we call this neo-confederalism? [ooh, that works out to a double-double-(and a half)-entendre]

    Thread of Michael Coudry posts which sound pretty insurrectiony, to include another “FORT TRUMP” reference [as Ali Alexander wrote] [on 1/5 re 1/6]:

    Michael Coudrey · @MichaelCoudrey
    5 days ago ·

    It’s not going to be DC on Wednesday.

    It’s going to be FORT TRUMP. 🇺🇸
    [archive link, screenshot]

    cont. from this thread:

  15. harpie says:

    FBI raids homes of 2 men who held rally on eve of Capitol attack
    Updated 5:01 AM ET, Wed February 3, 2021

    […] federal agents executed search warrants last week at two properties in Orange County, California, which public records indicate belong to Russell Taylor and Alan Hostetter. The two men run the American Phoenix Project, which co-sponsored a pro-Donald Trump rally near the Supreme Court on January 5 […]
    Footage [2:48:50!!!] of the rally shows the men spewing militant vitriol: Hostetter told the crowd to prepare for “war tomorrow” against “vipers” in Congress who refused to nullify President Joe Biden’s win. Taylor said, “We will not return to our peaceful way of life until this election is made right.” […]

    • harpie says:

      The video is labeled:

      One Nation Under God Rally
      Entire Virginia Women for Trump/American Phoenix Project Rally on 1/5/2021

      That’s HOSTETTER in the stars and stripes cowboy hat in the opening shot.

      The rally had been planned “weeks earlier” when T and H contacted Alice Butler-Short, founder of Virginia Women for Trump, who says that she primarily organized it, but that T and H helped pay for the logistics and security.

      This is the “near the Supreme Court” Rally that ALEXANDER and STONE spoke at. They spoke at a different RALLY in the evening of 1/5/21

      CNN ID’s TAYLOR in several photos of 1/6/21, one around 4:30 PM, near the police lines on the NORTH side of the CAPITOL, near the entrance to the Senate.

      In the second photo I THINK you can also see HOSTETTER, [left, in back]…looks like that could be his stars and stripes cowboy hat from the 1/5/21 video.

      • harpie says:

        From the David Corn article Eureka linked:

        The next day, [1/6/21] as the Washington Post reported, Hostetter was part of the mob that attacked the Capitol. His Instagram included a photo of him on top of the Capitol with the caption:
        “This was the ‘shot heard ’round the world’…The 2021 version of 1776. That war lasted eight years. We are just getting warmed up.” (That photo and caption no longer appear in Hostetter’s Instagram feed.)

        …but the Getty photo I referred to above, DOES show him at [but not in] the Capitol.

        January 24, Hofstetter posted a video on his Instagram that claimed “stealing the most powerful republic in the world” was “easy” for the Democrats, the media, and technology companies. The caption read,
        “Find me in free America. Stay in the fight! Patriots will prevail!”

        Coincidently, CNN says FBI confirmed search warrants were executed on Hofstetter’s property with Taylor “last week”, the week of January 24, 2021.

      • Eureka says:

        So about the different rallies on 1/5 (and 1/6): have you seen nice list that has each of the rallies and their respective speakers (or notorious attendees)?

        That’s been confusing, with people like Stone (apparently) at multiple of them in the same day. Kind of like the multiple hotel meetings on the 5th (though I’m not recalling overlap of personnel with those).

        I found this listing:

        2021 storming of the United States Capitol – Wikipedia

        Events before the “March to Save America”

        On January 5, several events related to overturning the election took place in or around the National Mall in Washington, D.C. Cindy Chafian, who founded the Eighty Percent Coalition, organized the “Rally to Revival”,[138] which was permitted to take place at Freedom Plaza including a “Rally to Save America”.[139] On the same day, the “Save the Republic Rally” was organized by Moms for America in the early afternoon at Area 9 across from the Russell Senate Office Building;[140] and the “One Nation Under God” rally, which was organized by Virginia Women for Trump, Stop the Steal, American Phoenix Project, and Jericho March, took place near the United States Supreme Court.[141]

        “The Silent Majority” rally was organized by James Epley and permitted in the North Inner Gravel Walkway between 13th and 14th Streets within the National Mall.[138] Epley’s events took place on January 5 and 6. At least ten people were arrested, several on weapons charges, on the night of January 5 and into the morning of January 6.[142]

        On January 6, the “Wild Protest” was organized by Stop The Steal and took place in Area 8 across from the Russell Senate Office Building.[143] On the same day, the “Freedom Rally” was organized by Virginia Freedom Keepers, Latinos for Trump, and United Medical Freedom Super PAC at 300 First Street NE, located across from the Russell Senate Office Building.[144]

        Does this event listing seem exhaustive? [Trump’s speech is separate/next in that wiki]

      • Eureka says:

        Related organizational consideration: earlier I was looking for that elusive map that you and I seek (which I think would be of general benefit as well). Gave up after fruitlessness — things like that always seem to come up incidentally, part of something else, instead of directly-titled search or something.

        Has anyone seen a MAAAAAAPPPPP?!?!

        We’re going to have to draw this on a DC map, aren’t we. Or two maps, to plot out each of the day’s events and routes.

        CSI: DC: wither the graphics department!

        • bmaz says:

          Man, the Wentz/Iggles thing really keeps you up at night, no? (Full disclosure, I don’t sleep for squat anymore either).

          • Eureka says:

            Oh I sleep like a baby in the light of day, or if I’ve been up long enough/finished what I’ve set out to do. Part of it is spouse’s schedule, too, and being more of a night person. And the Trump years (which have just added hours onto the end of my day as they take years off of our lives). [I WILL NEVER FINISH READING ALL OF MY TABS!]

            I have every confidence Ginger Jesus will not be long for this town. I reserve the right to complain about it either way. (Also while not necess. the solution, Jalen Hurts really is awesome, fits in way better — hope he can do well (here).)

              • Eureka says:

                This is great.

                [I used to write letters to Alex back when she was still alive, and actually had a lemonade stand out front of her house (re the charity that set up this meeting).]

                Hurts also just made a large donation to a West Philly school for the boys’ sports after zooming with them (the football team, I believe).
                Who could not love this guy?

    • Eureka says:

      Wow this is a great update, harpie!

      Also from that article:

      …the first known search warrants involving people who organized and spoke at rallies preceding the attack.

      UGH almost three hours!

      I’ll look for it in the interim (and reply if I find it), but have you seen if this video is avail elsewhere besides IG?

      • harpie says:

        Yeah. I’m not sure, but I think that’s important because the planning [coordination?] was done in order to implement the obstruction of a government function. [???]

    • Eureka says:

      Different video:

      Hostetter speaking at “PROTEST AT FACEBOOKS LA OFFICE” (sic) per banner on video
      Dec 15, 2020 (yt date; unsure of rally date but video has “LIVE” stamped on it)
      13:40 total length

      [Note: youtube is apparently still up for radicalizing people — two of the recommended videos are dramatically-titled news reports about sex trafficking in America, which bears no relation to this content or channel besides Qanon network links]

      [wearing that same hat]
      [gal on stage side w Trump flag wearing “Trump 45” shirt w handgun on it and additional text]

      12:15 mark: audience member exclaims, “Shoot her on the sidewalk” apparently in reference to Nancy Pelosi (from context which reamplifies/begins ca. 11:19 with his reading of Jefferson’s definition of tyranny followed by a reference to “Nancy’s haircut” w/”fancy Nancy” audience shout out; could be some other unnamed woman) (Marie Antoinette also referenced); Hostetter replies: “There you go”. Then continues speaking. [This is an anti-mask “face diaper” and coronavirus rules segment, blaming the govt for telling people which ~~”dot to stand on”.]

      This is after his generalized call to action, after they’ve cheered about “Barack.Hussein.Obama.” being included in the group who must be behind bars or “swinging from the gallows” (9:48) (Brennan, Clapper, FBI, CIA are included in this group, too, w the Clintons and I forget who else) (thru 10:07 he explains how there can be no peace or unity in this country until this “justice” happens. [The camera also turns to pan the sparse audience after Obama is dramatically named.] This is also after he says something about all races or whatever coming together.

      This is also after he exhorts Bill Barr to do something (~”We are not asking you for justice, we are demanding it. You. work. for. US.” ~ 10:24 end). There’s more [including an intro about Nazis and Stalin and “Gerbels” (sic)] — generally using similar language about our times that many progressives might in terms of needing to become more involved w our democracy. But the similarities end there [certainly different “solutions”].

      Viewed after another of his videos (from May, on his own channel), so you have the gist he likes to talk a lot.

      8:08 mark: He singles out “black man” Siaka who’d already spoken about his “awakening”. [see following comment]

      • Eureka says:

        It appears that this person is actor Siaka Massaquoi, active at LA anti-mask events per cursory search, who filmed himself outside of the Capitol 1/6, and was part of a group which just temporarily shut down the huge vaccination site in LA:

        Actor Siaka Massaquoi, who did not return a request for comment, also filmed himself outside the Capitol (which he does not appear to have entered) and at the Dodger Stadium rally. “Great time protesting sheep running to get a vaccine you don’t need!!” he wrote on Instagram. “So much the authorities closed the entrance cause there were scared we would ‘storm.’”

        Meet the Bizarro Crew That Shut Down a Los Angeles Vaccine Site
        Not a Tailgate
        At least two filmed themselves at the Jan. 6 rally that preceded the attack on the U.S. Capitol.
        Published Feb. 02, 2021 4:49AM ET

      • harpie says:

        Thanks for doing this Eureka! Pretty grim stuff.
        IMO, if SOMEone had taken it seriously when TRUMP was calling for Hillary’s extrajudicial imprisonment for delusional “crimes”, we might have averted some of this.

        I fast forwarded through the 1/5/21 video trying to get a list of the speakers…haven’t typed anything yet. I don’t know if it’s available anywhere else.

        I’ve been really interested in the Jericho March phenomenon because of Flynn’s [omg I can NOT think of the word I want!] and that Wiki link is very good…did not even think of trying it.

        “PARTICIPATION”…that’s the word OMG :-{ !

        • Eureka says:

          I know, right? Boundaries, and “NO” would have gone so far.

          I haven’t found that video elsewhere.

    • harpie says:

      Some quotes [from the articles]:
      12/12/20 Huntington Beach rally
      HOSTETTER Both foreign and domestic enemies and traitors surround us. They are protected and enabled by a corrupt and evil…mainstream media. And this mainstream media joined forces with an even more corrupt group of tech tyrants in the Silicon Valley.”

      “President Trump and his ground troops here with the patriots—we’re going to fix this….There must, absolutely must be a reckoning. There must be justice. President Trump must be inaugurated on January 20.”

      “The enemies and traitors of America, both foreign and domestic, must be held accountable. And they will. There must be long prison terms, while execution is the just punishment for the ringleaders of this coup.

      Dana ROHRABACHER [vowed that the assembled would not allow] “communists to take control of our government” [through election fraud.]

      1/5/12 One Nation Under God Rally [in front of the Supreme Court, directly behind the Capitol; organized by Virginia Women for Trump; American Phoenix Project obtained the permit and helped pay for the logistics and security: “event could not have happened without his assistance”]

      Ali ALEXANDER [Stop the Steal] “We are here to stop a coup that’s going on in our country.” // “This is our country, one way or another.” // [chanting]: “1776! 1776! 1776!”

      Alex JONES: “globalists” […] “brainwash and gaslight the public” // “the satanists who run this system.” // [called Biden a] “Chinese communist agent,” // [claimed Bill Gates was] “enslaving” [the world, and assailed the] “COVID hoax.” [wearing a mask] “is a sign of your slavery.” // “I want you to commit to total resistance.”

      Joe FLYNN “Are we going to let them [GOP cowards] cower to these communists?”

      Roger STONE [this is the rally his Oath Keepers security team drove to in a golf cart.]
      “This is a fight for the future of Western civilization as we know it….It’s a fight between the godly and the godless.”

      “This is nothing less than an epic struggle for the future of this country between Dark and Light, between the godly and the godless, between Good and Evil,”

      “And we will win this fight—or America will step off into a thousand years of darkness. We dare not fail! […] “I will be with you tomorrow—shoulder-to-shoulder!”

      HOSTETTER “They’re going to hear our voice tomorrow…We are at war in this country. We are at war tomorrow.”

      “the fear of God in the cowards and the traitors, the RINOS, the communists of the Democratic Party. They need to know we as a people, a hundred million strong, are coming for them, if they do the wrong thing […] “We will not return to our peaceful way of life until this election is made right.” // I will see you all tomorrow at the front lines.”

  16. harpie says:

    I’m trying to get some quotes posted, but my comments keep getting rejected, and I can’t figure out why.

  17. harpie says:

    Something from this:

    Incitement Timeline: Year of Trump’s Actions Leading to the Attack on the Capitol January 11, 2021

    June 4, 2020: The Trump campaign sends out a fundraising email asking supporters to enlist in the “Trump Army.” [screenshot]

    Part of what the email says:

    according to your donor file, you’d make an excellent addition to the Trump Army. […]

    YOU are the President’s first line of defense when it comes to fighting the Liberal MOB.

    These limited-edition [Camo Keep America Great] American-made hats are for Trump Army members ONLY, so do not pass this information on to anyone. […]

  18. harpie says:

    Movie at the Ellipse: A Study in Fascist Propaganda
    Scholars on the Nazis and anti-Semitism have seen this before
    Jason Stanley February 4, 2021

    This movie has a 10:57 AM timestamp on 1/6/21. [Right after RUDY speaks.]

    It’s very similar, if not identical to, the movie Trump showed at his October rally in Lansing. I wrote about that at the time:
    That video is no longer available, but there are photos of some of the images.
    [Also, in that comment thread, see a comparison of a TRUMP ad with Riefenstahl‘s 1935 “Triumph of Will”.]

    Also, the voice over above is partially quoted here in October:

    Donald Trump Lansing Rally Video Prompts ‘1984’ Comparisons

    In a voiceover, the president can be heard saying: “What really matters is not which party controls our government but whether our government is controlled by the people.”

    As [Trump] speaks, clips of figures like Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden are intercut with shots of factories, naval ships and air force jets as well as a shot of soldiers carrying a coffin and one of the EU Parliament Chamber.

    Trump says: “For too long, a small group in our nation’s capital have reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost. The establishment protected itself but not the citizens of our country. That all changes right here, right now.” […]


  19. harpie says:

    12:35 PM Hawley fist-pump photo [East side of Capitol]
    [A photo of the crowd there by same photographer at about the same time]

    1:49 PM after insurrectionists had overcome the Capitol perimeter—and after reports of pipe bombs had been confirmed—President Trump retweeted a video of his speech at the rally, which included his message that “Our country has had enough, we will not take it anymore, and that’s what this is all about. … You have to be strong.”

    • harpie says: [THREAD]

      2:16 PM Protesters have breached the Capitol. They’re outside the Senate chamber [PHOTO]
      2:17 PM This is happening [outside the Senate Chamber] [PHOTO]
      2:20 PM Police officers are holding them steps away from the Senate chamber, which is locked. Senators are inside. I see a few confederate flags. [PHOTO]
      2:20 PM Capitol is on lockdown as protesters storm front entrance of the Capitol. They are banging on the door. They have broken the glass window. [VIDEO]
      2:23 PM A dense group of protestors has shattered the windows of the Capitol. We can hear roaring chants of “USA” outside. [VIDEO]
      2:24 PM Some sort of gas has been set off. I’m not sure by whom. Police seem to be trying to deescalate and talk to them. [outside the Senate Chamber] [PHOTO]
      2:25 PM “If we don’t get justice, this will never stop,” one protester yells I count about 10 protesters by the Ohio Clock [No photo]
      2:28 PM Looks like a lot more protesters walking through the Rotunda toward the House chamber [PHOTO]
      2:31 PM That’s the confederate flag flying outside the Senate chamber [PHOTO]
      2:34 PM Ted Cruz sends a fundraising text:

      [Ted Cruz]: I’m leading the fight to reject electors from key states unless there is an emergency audit of the election results. Will you stand with me?

      2:45 PM Protesters are on the third floor of the Senate, walking door to door, shouting “Where the fuck are they?” [PHOTO]
      They’re in the gallery [PHOTO]
      2:47 PM They’re in the chamber. One is up on the dais yelling “Trump won that election!” This is insane [PHOTO]
      3:00 PM Thanks for the tweets and texts, friends. I am safe and in hiding. [heart emoji]

  20. skua says:

    Thanks for your work on this harpie.
    Having all these videos in a 6 hour long “real time” big-screen doco with “multi-channel” showing how the insurection rolled on 6 January would be something to see.

  21. harpie says:

    Here’s Aaron Rupar‘s magnum opus from the 1/6/21 rally:
    9:16 AM · Jan 6, 2021

    Mo Brooks begins the Trump “Save America Rally” on a profane and angry note [VIDEO] [THREAD]

    …looks like the “Study in Fascist Propaganda” has been eradicated from the internet:

    10:59 AM · Jan 6, 2021
    Dystopian scenes ahead of Trump’s speech
    [This media has been disabled in response to a report by the copyright owner.]

  22. Eureka says:

    Two videos with maps and some timestamped info; (3) WaPo map includes bomb placement relative to Capitol:

    (1) WSJ

    (yes, harpie, that was the one I thought when we talked about this last week; you have a John Scott-Railton link for this that you hadn’t gotten to watch yet):

    Video Investigation: Proud Boys Were Key Instigators in Capitol Riot | WSJ
    •Jan 27, 2021

    Maps simultaneously showing WH, Ellipse, Capitol, and where the PBs are:

    2:42 PBs meet in am before Trump speech on _east_ side of Capitol

    4:42 12:48pm PBs approach Capitol from the NW

    Other timestamped items of interest.

    [aside, when this video came out I kept replaying the PB walk at 4:35-4:36 when camera pans to a person in lead (or ahead of them) with blue fabric tied around/hanging from waist, because of a slight resemblance to the person who placed the bomb(s). I think just because their gait was affected by the shoes they wore — one of the gait kicks struck me funny — but this was before more walking video of bomb suspect was released on 29th, and is a different style/encumbrance-level of walk anyway. I am perhaps alone in finding this to be mesmerizing.]

    (2) Washington Post — excellent schematic maps showing flows into/within the Capitol:

    Inside the U.S. Capitol at the height of the siege | Visual Forensics
    •Jan 16, 2021

    Many timestamped items of interest, may be worth cross-referencing with your micro-timeline, harpie.

    7:00-7:04 “Rioters now stream through the open doors on the east side of the building”.

    Was this the crew walking with Jones? Not sure of timeframes / how crowd outside moved at this time. Feedback appreciated if anyone knows.

    • Eureka says:

      (3) WaPo map includes bomb placement locations relative to Capitol:

      Video shows pipe bombs found near Capitol were placed the night before – The Washington Post
      Jan. 29, 2021 at 1:27 p.m. EST

      (4) Not a map but an interesting thread about the bomb suspect’s shoes — possibly a team version or a knockoff (very popular overseas; ? foreigner), which explains discrepancies between suspect’s shoes and FBI ID of model:

      Peter Armstrong: “1/ There is much focus on the shoes of the Capitol pipe bomb suspect. The @FBIWFO and many internet sleuths conclude the shoes are Nike Air Max Speed Turfs in yellow, black, and gray. While a close match, there are key details of that shoe that don’t line up. Read on ➭”
      5:16 AM · Jan 30, 2021

    • harpie says:

      THANKS for all this, Eureka!…lots to digest.

      That’s really interesting about the bomber’s shoes…mindboggling how this stuff gets done!

      About that walker’s gait…you mentioning it made me think of one of the PB or OB conversations revealed in the court docs about someone who feels too “broken down” for a full day of insurrection but would be able to [something]. I’ll have to see if I can remember where I read that.

      There is an informative video with schematics and times at this article. I don’t know if it’s new:

      Facing ‘significant influx’ of Capitol siege cases, DOJ issues ‘urgent’ internal plea for help to offices across country
      One U.S. attorney’s office is taking the lead in hundreds of prosecutions. 2/4/21

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