Stop the Steal: Hints of the January 5 Rallies in the January 6 Riot Investigation

With the charges against Owen Shroyer, the government has now charged three people who had a speaking part in several rallies tied to Stop the Steal the day before the insurrection: Brandon Straka, Russell Taylor and his co-conspirators, and Shroyer. Because I’m working on some gaps in the government’s story — gaps that must be intentional, for investigative or prosecutorial reasons — I want to look at how DOJ is beginning to fill in the story about January 5.

With Walk Away founder Brandon Straka, who was arrested on January 25, the mention of his speech at the Stop the Steal rally at Freedom Plaza in his arrest affidavit was almost incidental, included along with the rest of his incendiary speech directly tied to the riot (but the affidavit didn’t include his other public comments over a broader period — for example, it doesn’t mention Straka’s role in sowing suspicion of the Michigan vote tally).

My review of STRAKA’s Twitter account on January 11, also found a video he had posted of himself speaking at a “Stop the Steal” rally held at Freedom Plaza in Washington, D.C. on January 5, 2021. As of January 13, STRAKA had removed this video from his Twitter account, but a video of the entire event had been posted to YouTube. The video showed that STRAKA was introduced by name and brought onto stage. STRAKA spoke for about five minutes during which time he repeatedly referred to the attendees as “Patriots” and referenced the “revolution” multiple times. STRAKA told the attendees to “fight back” and ended by saying, “We are sending a message to the Democrats, we are not going away, you’ve got a problem!”

Though Straka was charged with civil disorder for encouraging others to strip an officer of his riot shield, he has not yet been indicted, with or without obstruction, which these statements would seem to support. Instead, the government has gotten two 90-plus day continuances in this case with Straka’s consent, offering the explanation that, “are continuing to communicate in an effort to resolve this matter.” Straka currently has a status hearing scheduled on August 25, Wednesday, though these things do get moved quickly.

The January 5 rally at the Supreme Court (which featured some of the same people as the Freedom Plaza one) appears in the So Cal Three Percenter conspiracy indictment in part for the logistical challenges it posed.

On December 30, 2020, KINNISON sent a text message to MELE, WARNER, and MARTINEZ in which he attached a flyer advertising the January 5, 2021 rally outside the Supreme Court, at which TAYLOR, HOSTETTER, and PERSON ONE were named speakers for the American Phoenix Project. After KINNISON set this message, MELE wrote, “We need to make sure we roll into town earlier on the 5th now,” to which KINNISON responded, “We can leave Saturday.”

But it still provided cause for DOJ to mention that by December 30, Russell Taylor knew of a Stop the Steal plan to “surround the Capitol.”

On December 30, 2020, TAYLOR posted to his “russ.taylor” Instagram account:

Spread the word to other CALIFORNIA Patriots to join us as we March into the Capitol Jan 6. The Plan right now is to meet up at two occasions and locations: 1. Jan 5th 2pm at the Supreme Court steps for a rally. (Myself, Alan, [and others] will be speaking) 2. Jan 6th early 7am meet in front of the Kimpton George Hotel…we will leave at 7:30am sharp and March (15 mins) to the Capital [sic] to meet up with the stop the steal organization and surround the capital. [sic] There will be speakers there and we will be part of the large effort for the “Wild Rally” that Trump has asked us all to be part of. [my emphasis]

Mentioning this rally also gave DOJ an opportunity to describe Taylor promising to “fight” and “bleed” in his speech at the rally.

On January 5, 2021, TAYLOR spoke at a Virginia Women for Trump rally in front of the United States Supreme Court as part of a panel of American Phoenix Project speakers. In his speech, he stated:

I am Russell Taylor and I am a free American. And I stand here in the streets with you in defiance of a communist coup that is set to take over America. But we are awake and we are never going back to sleep. We are free Americans and in these streets we will fight and we will bleed before we allow our freedom to be taken from us. We declare that we will never bend a knee to the Marxists within Antifa, to the tyrannical Democrat governors who are puppets, and to the deep state commie actors who threaten to destroy America…. But now these anti-Americans have made the fatal mistake, and they have brought out the Patriot’s fury onto these streets and they did so without knowing that we will not return to our peaceful way of life until this election is made right, our freedoms are restored, and American is preserved.

That is, in the conspiracy indictment charging 3 percenters with organizing not just themselves to come armed to the Capitol, but others in Southern California, the earlier rally serves as both an organizational focus and a platform to sow violence.

Shroyer’s affidavit mentions several things he said on January 5

SHROYER traveled to Washington, D.C. in January 2021, and in advance of January 6, 2021, spoke of stopping the certification of the Electoral College vote. In a video1 posted to the Infowars website on January 5, 2021, SHROYER gave an address in Freedom Plaza in Washington D.C., during which he stated: “Americans are ready to fight. We’re not exactly sure what that’s going to look like perhaps in a couple of weeks if we can’t stop this certification of the fraudulent election . . . we are the new revolution! We are going to restore and we are going to save the republic!”

In another video2 posted to the Infowars website on January 5, 2021, SHROYER called into an Infowars live broadcast and said: “what I’m afraid of is if we do not get this false certification of Biden stopped this week. I’m afraid of what this means for the rest of the month . . . Everybody knows election was stolen . . . are we just going to sit here and become activists for 4 years or are going to actually do something about this . . . whatever that cause or course of cause may be?”3

In addition, SHROYER was featured in promotional material circulated by Infowars. One promotional video urged listeners to “come to the big D.C. marches on the 5th and 6th of January, I’ll see you there.”4 The video ended with an edited graphic of SHROYER and others in front of the Capitol building. That graphic is depicted below:

1 https://banned.video/watch?id=5ff4aebaa285a02ed04c4d6e.

2 https://banned.video/watch?id=5ff511bb5a212330029f5a9c.

3 https://banned.video/watch?id=5ff511bb5a212330029f5a9c.

4 https://www.banned.video/watch?id=5ff22bb71f93a8267a6432ee.

While Shroyer is circled in that graphic — which demonstrates that Jones had a plan to go to the Capitol (significantly, this is the East front) days in advance — it really is all about Jones.

As I noted, this is just a trespass arrest, like hundreds of other trespass arrests (though by charging Shroyer with violating a pre-existing Deferred Prosecution Agreement, they lessen any claims of persecution that will come as they investigate Shroyer further).

But what these three arrests together show is that those involved as speakers on January 5 seem to have had advance knowledge of what would happen the next day.

One of the other mentions of January 5 rallies thus far appears in the filings for Josiah Colt, Ronnie Sandlin, and Nate DeGrave, three random guys who hooked up on the Internet and armed themselves for violence in advance of January 6. Though they have no ties to any organized militia, the day after they went to a January 5 rally, they seemed to know there would be a second front opening at the East door, and Sandlin and DeGrave were among those charged with forcibly ensuring that door was opened.

image_print
72 replies
    • joel fisher says:

      “Damning” in what sense? He sure is a despicable human being, but lying, even on this industrial scale, is not a crime unless you are talking to LE or under oath. So far, the powers that be don’t seem all that interested in plunking his or anyone else’s asses down in a witness chair.
      And another thing: what happens when the higher up Trumpsters tell what might actually be the truth: we didn’t give a shit about overturning anything, we were stealing money from the morons who believed our BS.

  1. OldTulsaDude says:

    Seems to me that in the russ.taylor Instagram quote that there were three distinct rallies: one in front of the Supreme Court, the second the “stop the steal” rally, and then the third the “Wild Rally” called for by Trump. I also noticed that in the first line it was “march into the capitol Jan. 6” but then later described precisely Jan. 5 for the Supreme Court rally and Jan. 6 at 7:30 a.m. for the march from the hotel “to the capital (sic)”. One reading could be that it was only after the capitol rally that the “Wild Rally” would commence.

      • Tina Saund says:

        Adding a few more rallies in January:

        “At more than 25 stops – in parking lots and airplane hangers in states including Arizona, Georgia, Louisiana, Kentucky and Tennessee – flight-attendant-turned-political-activist Amy Kremer and other speakers exhorted crowds to join her and others in Washington to fight for Trump and overturn the election. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-trump-protest-organizers-insight-idINKBN29H00H

        There was the “March to Save America, (The actual name for the rally tRUMP attended Jan 6) https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/09/pro-trump-dark-money-groups-organized-the-rally-that-led-to-deadly-capitol-hill-riot.html ”Sen. Doug Mastriano’s campaign spent $3,354 to charter buses to D.C for the “Save America” rally. “Mastriano posted an event on Facebook offering bus rides to D.C. on Jan. 6 — charging attendees $25 dollars for an adult and $10 for children.” He and “at least 10 county-level GOP chapters encouraged or directly facilitated trips to the capitol, “ under the heading of “Stop the Steal” and “Save America.” https://whyy.org/articles/mastriano-campaign-spent-thousands-on-buses-ahead-of-d-c-insurrection/

        Roger Stone has the copyright on “Stop the Steal” so used it liberally for anything that could help pay back TFG45 for his quid pro quo pardon. He used it for the January 5th rally, and also called the Jan 6 rally Stop the steal. ‘Roger Stone “whipped up a crowd of Trump supporters in Washington the night before, telling them the president’s enemies sought “nothing less than the heist of the 2020 election.” plus “And we say, No way!” Stone said at the Jan. 5 rally.’ https://abcnews.go.com/US/longtime-trump-advisers-connected-groups-rally-led-capitol/story?id=75261028

        Roger Stone talking about the Stop the steal rally… asking for donations for security. https://twitter.com/jimstewartson/status/1363235266853367810

        I would just like to remind everyone that TFG45 other rallies had more security than the capitol and would not allow in backpacks. Pretty strange that this one had no such provisions. Someone needs to ask his security team about that.

        • Tina Saund says:

          I am not doing this to upset anyone… just to clarify. The rally TFG spoke at was on the ellipse, but there were many more… all related..

          Robert Patrick Lewis’ “1st Amendment Praetorians” or 1AP is QAnon bullshit for veterans, intelligence and cops… !! Here’s a 1st thread on 1AP & the Willard Hotel: ‘the 1/5 Freedom Plaza rally permit says: “…1st Amendment Praetorian Group will provide…security.” Founded 2020 by messianic Green Beret Robert Patrick Lewis who now hangs with the VIPs. They recruit from former military, police & intelligence officers …the “christian” soldiers,if you will. RPL is now on the speaker circuit. On Dec 12 he warned that U.S. kids may “grow up in a communist hellhole” “This is our chance…take back the country.” ‘https://twitter.com/capitolhunters/status/1408394903931949058

          And for the QAnon digital soldiers/Talibangelicals, there were Jan 5 and 6 rallies. Jan 06, “General” Flynn “promoted the so-called “Jericho March,” a rally of Christians to “pray, march, fast, and rally for election integrity,” according to the group’s website, that also took place on Jan. 6 in the shadow of the Capitol. In the weeks leading up to the event, Flynn told his supporters that they would “need to be fearless as Americans.” “[Trump] knows—he knows—that the people that he can trust are people that he’s never met. And that’s you. He trusts you because he knows you know what’s going on and you will not allow what’s going on to happen in our country,” Flynn said.

          Jan 5 Mike Flynn’s brother, spoke in front of the Supreme Court on 1/5. Along with: Ali, Roger Stone, Alex Jones, sister Barbara Flynn. Video from Alan Hostetter – now charged in a 3% conspiracy indictment. (Video part 1 of 2) src: https://instagram.com/tv/CJrdOXOAyCm/ and here https://twitter.com/rickyx2001/status/1403311689026707458?s=20 and here https://twitter.com/rickyx2001/status/1403314108641034247?s=20 video speech of sister Barbara https://twitter.com/i/status/1403315046743265284

          There was another smaller rally January 6, but I can’t find the name of it… (There are 62 pages in that file and the number of dark money groups and group names I have noted in quotation marks make if difficult to pinpoint)

          I hope I have not offended anyone, especially as this is a first post. (and perhaps only one)

          • Ginevra diBenci says:

            Tina Saund, you sure packed a lot into your first post. I’m always happy to see someone new here who’s willing to do (real) research. I have a question: when you refer to a Flynn brother speaking Jan 5, which brother was that? He seems to have an inexhaustible supply, I know, and then there’s the bros-in-law; I’m just trying to keep them differentiated.

  2. Rugger9 says:

    Indeed, and it is worth noting that much of this appears to be on accessible social media if the FBI, et al, cared to look. However, under AG Barr’s influence, it wasn’t going to happen which is an attitude for LEOs even today. Not only did we have the LAPD fiasco last week, but we had the PDX police standing down while the PBs ran amok in the city, causing damage.

    If the LEOs won’t do their job, why not defund them?

  3. Eureka says:

    Excellent sleuthery. Sounds like another way to wend towards both the Willard Working Group and “the White House” — via Jones’ “peaceful deal” with the latter (which he seemed to resentfully panic-prattle about. Jones’ excited utterances have been a blast).

    Layers!


    Adding: slow clap w/Leo Cheers . GIF for Taylor not writing “apart of” (“has asked us all to be part of.”). Dropped the “a” altogether: smooth!

  4. P J Evans says:

    Somewhat OT: Lindell is now claiming the former guy will be back by the end of the year. (He’s been wrong every time so far.)

    • John Paul Jones says:

      It’s like the Jehovah’s Witnesses claiming the end of the world is coming and then when it doesn’t happen, re-writing the prophecy. Hmm. Makes me wonder if Lindell has a JW background…..

      • ducktree says:

        As usual, the prophecy is misstated: It’s the “end of time” – it happens every time I need a new battery in my Croton.

    • TooLoose LeTruck says:

      Every damned time I see the name ‘Mike Lindell’ in print and/or his picture, I immediately start hearing the old Benny Hill theme music, ‘Yakkity Sax’…

        • P J Evans says:

          His were never going to be on my list – I hate foam pillows. Grew up using nice “dead” cotton (or maybe kapok) filled pillows.

          • bmaz says:

            Heh, I am the only one in this house too often up with insomnia at night, but Mrs. bmaz bought a couple of those lumpy sacks, and no I cannot remember how that came to be. But, man, do they suck.

      • vvv says:

        Boots Randolph, a fave of my moms when I was growing up.

        [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zcq_xLi2NGo]

        [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJuU88dQ_m0]

    • harpie says:

      This is the best list of the Jan 5 rallies I’ve seen [thanks, Eureka!]:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_United_States_Capitol_attack

      Rally to Revival; Freedom Plaza
      Eighty Percent Coalition [Cindy Chafian]

      1-2 PM, March to Save America [the permit notes, there will be no marching]
      3:30-5 PM Stop the Steal
      5-8:30 PM the Eighty Percent Coalition

      Save the Republic Rally; Area 9 [Northeast Capitol grounds]
      Moms for America

      One Nation Under God Rally; Near SCOTUS [EAST of Capitol]
      Va. Women for Trump, Stop the Steal, American Phoenix Project, Jericho March

      Here’s a MAP that shows Area 9 and SCOTUS [NORTH is to the left!]
      https://www.uscp.gov/sites/uscapitolpolice.house.gov/files/wysiwyg_uploaded/U.S.%20Capitol%20Grounds%20Demonstration%20Area%20Map.pdf

      • klynn says:

        After reading through the park permit, made me think the Faith Based Initiative needs to come to an end.

        • harpie says:

          Yes…very creepy.

          Remember the so called “moral majority”?

          … and the bumper sticker:

          The moral majority is neither.

    • harpie says:

      But what these three arrests together show is that those involved as speakers on January 5 seem to have had advance knowledge of what would happen the next day.

      I put a list of the confirmed speakers at Rally to Revival at Marcy’s post about the Reuters article. [Thought it would be good not to gum up the comment section here.]
      That comment is in moderation, unsuprisingly…it is a long list! I can post partial[?] lists for the other two rallies as well.

    • harpie says:

      MARCY: But what these three arrests together show is that those involved as speakers on January 5 seem to have had advance knowledge of what would happen the next day.

      MARCY was just doing a twitter thread on the J6 COMMITTEE:
      https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1430559822362120197
      11:56 AM · Aug 25, 2021

      She screenshots a list of people saying:

      Thus far approximately 7 of these people have either been arrested in Jan 6 or were pardoned by Trump.

      I can’t find where she got that screenshot of the list from, so she may know this already, BUT the first 30 names on that list are almost exactly the “confirmed” list of speakers for Chafian’s 1/5/20 Rally to Revival at Freedom Plaza.

      The two EXCEPTIONS are:
      1] the Committee substitutes Michael FLYNN for Joe FLYNN and
      2] they left out Lauren Boebert
      See: https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/08/20/reuters-doesnt-mention-terrorism-when-discussing-the-january-6-investigation/#comment-900481

    • harpie says:

      https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1417743704643837952
      3:10 AM · Jul 21, 2021

      This thread directly ties the Jan 5 rally with the Lower West Terrace violence, including the assault of Michael Fanone. [link]

      Links to:
      https://twitter.com/capitolhunters/status/1417671625663598593
      10:23 PM · Jul 20, 2021

      #SeditionHunters – events in DC required planning. Cindy Chafian organized the fiery Jan 5 rally where Ali Alexander led the crowd in “Victory or Death!” On Jan 6 she marched up the West Capitol steps with bullhorn & entourage and cheered during the assault on Officer Fanone. 1/ [THREAD]

      There is SO MUCH INFORMATION in that thread.

      One bit which I want to emphasize now. Capitol Hunters’ 18th tweet links to https://twitter.com/visionsurreal/status/1416541131349839872
      which shows that besides her husband Scott’s [retired military] private security firm services, CHAFIAN often used 1AP- First Amendment Praetorian group, whose founder is Robert Patrick LEWIS, is listed as a SPEAKER at the rally AND on J6 Committee’s LIST.

      This thread connects Michael FLYNN, Stuart RHODES, Roger STONE and more.

    • harpie says:

      https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1417743704643837952
      3:10 AM · Jul 21, 2021

      This thread directly ties the Jan 5 rally with the Lower West Terrace violence, including the assault of Michael Fanone. [LINK]

      Links to:
      https://twitter.com/capitolhunters/status/1417671625663598593
      10:23 PM · Jul 20, 2021

      #SeditionHunters – events in DC required planning. Cindy Chafian organized the fiery Jan 5 rally where Ali Alexander led the crowd in “Victory or Death!” On Jan 6 she marched up the West Capitol steps with bullhorn & entourage and cheered during the assault on Officer Fanone. 1/ [THREAD]

      • harpie says:

        There is SO MUCH INFORMATION in that thread, but right now I want to emphasize tweet #18

        Cindy’s many activities and events from November 2020 leading up to January 6 have been extensively documented by @visionsurreal. [LINK]18/

        Links to:
        https://twitter.com/visionsurreal/status/1416541131349839872
        7:31 PM · Jul 17, 2021

        As early as 11/23/20, Cindy Chafian (the “organizer” of the Million MAGA March on 11/14 per the permit, which also specified 1AP as security) tweeted that 1AP would also be providing security for the upcoming Jericho March in DC and was endorsed by General Flynn. /25 [THREAD up and down]

        IAP is FIRST AMENDMENT PRAETORIAN, a security firm, founded by Robert Patrick LEWIS, who was a listed as a SPEAKER at Chafian’s 1/5 RALLY, and is on the J6 Committee list that was just published.

        • harpie says:

          When we were talking about TRUMP’s attempted decapitating of DOJ and his phone call with Rosen and Donoghue, 1st Amendment Praetorian group came up in relation to the Willard Hotel, here:
          https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/06/24/statements-of-offense-doj-is-not-telling-stories/#comment-895353

          Direct link to Capitol Hunters’ thread about it:
          https://twitter.com/capitolhunters/status/1408394903931949058
          8:01 AM · Jun 25, 2021

          #SeditionHunters – in ancient Rome, the elite Praetorian Guard kept overthrowing the emperors they were assigned to protect. In DC this January, seems the “1st Amendment Praetorians” had similar ambitions – intrigue is timeless. Here’s a 1st thread on 1AP & the Willard Hotel 1/ […]

          On Jan 6, RPL headed to Trump’s rally with two companions. We call the tall one #TallWillardGuy; he’s easy to see above the crowd. They watched from the VIP section with other A-listers. 6/

          On 1/5 both were in the VIP tent at the Freedom Plaza rally. Here’s #TallWillardGuy wearing an earpiece, near Roger Stone & election-fraud conspiracist Joe Oltmann. (Joe’s data/marketing co.: “We start conversations & make sure that they’re going in the right directions.”) 7/ [THREAD]

          • harpie says:

            Later in the thread, #TallWillardGuy is ID’d as Philip Luelsdorff, who created 1AP with RPL, in September 2020.

            Later in that CH thread:

            Dec. 13, 2020, #TallWilllardMan replies to Joseph Flynn (Michael Flynn’s brother) thanking “RPL and Yoda and the entire crew of 1AP for taking great care of #TeamFlynn yesterday”. 1AP provided security for the Dec. 12 `Defend America’ rally in DC, where Michael Flynn spoke. 24/

            Here’s Michael Flynn at the Dec. 12th DC rally, with Joseph Flynn behind him and his faithful 1AP bodyguard #ShadowFlynn in front. (More on him to come!) 12/12 might seem like a dress rehearsal for 1/6; everyone was there – Proud Boys, militia, right-wing speakers, 1AP… 25/

        • harpie says:

          The 1st Amendment Praetorian group has become an on-call security and intelligence team for the most extreme and esoteric of Trumpists.
          https://www.thedailybeast.com/1st-amendment-praetorian-the-far-right-paramilitary-wannabes-feeding-mike-flynns-conspiracy-machine
          William Bredderman/Will Sommer Jun. 10, 2021

          [quote] Lewis was listed along with Alex Jones and Alexander among the speakers on the permit for the “Rally for Revival” on Freedom Plaza in D.C. The permit also stated that 25 members of 1A Praetorian would be on-site as “demonstration marshals.” [end quote]

  5. greenbird says:

    Dec 30: posted to R. Taylor IG account:
    “… 1. Jan 5th 2pm at the Supreme Court steps for a rally. (Myself, Alan, [and others] will be speaking) …”

    i’ve forgotten who “Alan” is. anyone know ?

    • matt fischer says:

      Alan Hostetter, a Three Percenter indicted for conspiracy. He’s tagged at the end of the article.

  6. Rugger9 says:

    OT, it seems the fixation of our courtier press is about the Americans stranded in Afghanistan despite being told months ago by the State Department to leave when commercial flights out of Kabul were still available. Note also that attempts by the press to claim that Vietnam’s evac went better (Ford’s administration did nothing, thus the “boat people”) is typical BS trying to cover for their own jingoism. Psaki smacked Doocy around about that again today.

    Unlike Gerald Ford, Biden is still working on getting people out that want to go, and I should point out that the insufferable Pompeo didn’t do any planning about leaving even though his boss (the odious DJT) made it clear in September 2020 and Pompeo cheered that decision then.

    Is it going to be a mess (yes), but is it Biden’s fault alone (no)? It’s bad enough that one of the Faux News weekend warriors was blaming Jill Biden for letting America down. I for one still want to roast Milley and CENTCOM for this since contingency planning is a key part of their duties in their roles.

  7. Joseph Andrews says:

    …from the piece:

    “One of the other mentions of January 5 rallies thus far appears in the filings for Josiah Colt, Ronnie Sandlin, and Nate DeGrave, three random guys who hooked up on the Internet and armed themselves for violence in advance of January 6. Though they have no ties to any organized militia, the day after they went to a January 5 rally, they seemed to know there would be a second front opening at the East door, and Sandlin and DeGrave were among those charged with forcibly ensuring that door was opened.”

    …thanks for this. It is why I read emptywheel.

  8. Dutch Louis says:

    Step by step the underlying order of the involved Proud Boys & Girls is unraveled: Jan.6 – Jan.5 – Stop the Steal – The Eighty Percent Coalition – Cindy Chafian – Alex Jones – Caroline Wren – Kimberly Guilfoyle – …

  9. Leoghann says:

    It took a little digging, but it appears the other American Phoenix Project speaker was Leigh Dundas, a lawyer for the Church of Scientology. Could she be Person One in the Hofstetter indictment?

    • matt fischer says:

      The indictment of Hostetter and Taylor refers to Person One as a director of the American Phoenix Project. Also “In the early morning hours, TAYLOR, HOSTETTER, PERSON ONE, and others known and unknown met in a group in downtown Washington, D.C. to walk to the Ellipse for a rally featuring a speech by President Trump.” So I believe Person One to be Morton Irvine Smith.

    • Ginevra diBenci says:

      Leoghann, I am very intrigued by the Scientology connection your Dundas ID suggests. If it’s the same Leigh Dundas, it would be like galaxies colliding: two massive cults with very different leaders/polarities finding a common interest. Thanks for this tip! Right up my alley.

    • bmaz says:

      Because pre-trial detention is NOT about punishment for purported acts or speech you don’t like? Can you establish that Hackett is a flight risk or danger to the relevant community? If not, then those are the criteria, and why he got released (with extremely strict terms and conditions, as should be).

      • RWood says:

        I was under the impression they had already established him as a flight risk? Since he’s local to me I may be getting some grapevine info that’s not accurate.

        I guess I need to make a spreadsheet to keep track of all these yahoos.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      Punishment first, verdict afterwards. That’s what you have with expansive pretrial confinement. Punishment should come after conviction. Pretrial confinement, however much it might be abused, is there to avoid flight or harm to self or others.

      • bmaz says:

        Exactly. And there are situations where detention is appropriate. But most of these yokels are not among them. If they violate release, or will not cooperate with PTS, fine, roll them up. But most all can be given release conditions and monitored.

  10. FL Resister says:

    I tried to read through the timeline from Just Security posted at the beginning of this thread listing Jordan’s lies about the 2020 election and his smearing Democrats with more lies to rile up the MAGA hatters. https://www.justsecurity.org/77852/timeline-rep-jim-jordan-a-systematic-disinformation-campaign-and-january-6/
    Difficult to stomach that there are no consequences for members of Congress lying about a national presidential election or about their colleagues and our faithful civil servants, but here we are – so far.
    Speaking of liars and defenders of Trump, whatever happened to Devin Nunes?
    Is he keeping a low profile for a reason?

    • bmaz says:

      Well, he does not have much power right now, as he used to. He does keep losing his stupid little defamation lawsuits. That is ongoing.

      • FL ResisterT says:

        LOL. Thanks for that. What a ridiculous figure Nunes is.
        Would love to see what’s lying under his rock as well as his aides-who-worked-for-Trump Derek Harvey, Alan Souza, Kash Patel. Am I leaving anyone out?
        I think Devin Nunes knows he’s culpuble for something and is keeping a low profile.

        (my apologies for name typo)

Comments are closed.