The First Seditious Conspiracy Charges Drop

The government arrested Stewart Rhodes today and charged him with other Oath Keepers in a seditious conspiracy indictment. Effectively, this charges everyone who conspired — including by participating in the planning — to bring weapons to Virginia on January 6 (and spins the other Oath Keepers off onto their own indictment). The charges effectively incorporate the material from this post on the Quick Reaction Force and this post on discussion of an insurrection after January 6, with additional details on Rhodes and Edward Vallejo, the guy who organized the QRF.

The charges are, at once, no big deal, because they’re really just the same conspiracy charged in a different way with two conspiracies added. They’re a huge deal, because now Republicans will be hard pressed to continue to downplay January 6. And they’re a solution to some problems and a tool to move on.

First consider the problems DOJ was trying to solve:

  • How to split up an unwieldy 17-person conspiracy into two trials?
  • How to charge Stewart Rhodes (and Vallejo) for roles central to the conspiracy when they didn’t do anything like trespassing to make that easy?
  • How to backstop the sedition charges so white terrorists won’t go free?
  • How to add leverage to flip key witnesses to move beyond just the Oath Keepers?

Now consider how this works as a tool. For some reason, the government has moved Jonathan Walden to his own charges separately. And Mike Simmons, who in all earlier indictments was called “Person Ten,” here is just described as “operational leader,” which suggests he’s no longer treated as a co-conspirator, either.

Though Kenneth Harrelson released some of the key communications from the Willard Hotel from earlier in the day, those still don’t show up in this indictment. So the government is remaining coy about what it knows about coordination with people at the Willard Hotel. That’s probably because it still needs others to flip — Joshua James would be ideal, but Roberto Minuta might be useful as well — to confirm whatever Mark Grods and Mike Simmons (if he is cooperating) were able to offer about it.

But they are making it clear that they know more about some communications they’ve been talking about for some time. Here’s my favorite.

I noted in April that this was probably a conference call. They seem to suggest they may know the content of it.

In addition, this indictment confirms that Kelly Meggs hunted Nancy Pelosi down (and that the rest of the stack went towards the Senate, as if hunting for Pence).

As mentioned, they’ve added a bunch of charges:

  • Added Seditious Conspiracy tied to Rhodes’ repeated efforts to arm and train for war
  • Swapped the 18 USC 371 conspiracy charge for a 18 USC 1512k conspiracy; as I’ve noted, that provides additional enhancements for threats of assassination and kidnapping, as this indictment inches closer to alleging
  • Added a conspiracy to prevent an officer from discharging any duty (18 USC 372)

What this does is raise the sentencing exposure for the co-conspirators from around 20 years to, with terrorism enhancements for the broken door, maybe 80. It backstops the sedition charges (with the original obstruction charge, but also with the 372 charge) so white terrorists won’t be able to beat the charges. It charges all the other efforts to obstruct this investigation.

But it’s the latter new charge I’m most interested in, even more than sedition:

If two or more persons in any State, Territory, Possession, or District conspire to prevent, by force, intimidation, or threat, any person from accepting or holding any office, trust, or place of confidence under the United States, or from discharging any duties thereof, or to induce by like means any officer of the United States to leave the place, where his duties as an officer are required to be performed, or to injure him in his person or property on account of his lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or while engaged in the lawful discharge thereof, or to injure his property so as to molest, interrupt, hinder, or impede him in the discharge of his official duties, each of such persons shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six years, or both.

This is what Eric Swalwell has argued some of these same people did. But it is, more clearly, what Donald Trump did to Mike Pence.

This indictment will, presumably, impress all those who’ve been wailing the existing 20 year charges the Oath Keepers were facing were not adequate. But it may also clear a path to move up the chain.

Update: Correcting that Walden must be cooperating. I think that’s a misreading.

294 replies
    • TeeWhy says:

      True, but I get it. I’ve been seeing someone for anxiety and depression, and my therapist asked what it would take for me to view anti-makers and anti-vaxxers as people worthy of empathy. I told him straight up, Trump, Flynn and the rest arrested on sedition. Period.

      Until then, the deplorable dolts that flaunt common sense are showing allegiance to a fascist leader that is bent on civil war, if he can kick it off. I come here, and Marcy helps me feel like there is progress. But as someone suffering from anxiety, I get why people are flipping out.

      • Betsy says:

        Trump caused my afib in April 2017; I spent his whole, deranged reign on Xarelto and Xanax. I battle seething rage at the anti vaxxers every day. Hang in there.

        • Bobby Gladd says:

          Sorry to hear all of this. In 2016 I had increasingly depressing feeling that Trump was going to win, and that it would be bad. Then, five weeks after his inauguration day, my younger daughter was diagnosed with terminal metastatic pancreatic cancer. She lived for another 13 months. It was terrible, and worsened by this Trump zoo going on every day. Along with that, my aortic valve was failing, and I had to put off surgery until after Danielle died.

          I am lucky to be alive, but I swear, the stress of all of this Trump circus has probably taken five years off my life.

          And, the shit is likely to get worse before it gets better.

          But, this is some good news today. We’ll take our good news or we can get it.

        • Atomic Shadow says:

          I am terribly sorry about your daughter. Having just gone through several rounds of chemo, I can’t imagine how hard that must have been for you, and her. Damn.

          I can say that cancer and depression are a shit combination. Seeing some of these villains in jail would improve my mood considerably.

        • Hug h says:

          Bobby, hang in there, our sincerest Condolences and peace and love to you and yours.
          My wife, daughter and I suddenly and unexpectedly lost our 13yr old Son to undiagnosed Cardiomyopathy in 2014.
          December 2019 that beloved healthy, athletic, vegetarian, wife of now 27 yrs was diagnosed with ALS.
          Months later… the pandemic hit.
          We continue to trudge onward…day by day by day.
          The utter shit show of these last many years is incomprehensible INDEED.

          As a LONG lapsed… nay ex. Catholic I’ll share these words which have lifted me in stormy times-

          “God speaks to each of us as he makes us,
          then walks with us silently out of the night.
          These are the words we dimly hear:
          “You, sent out beyond your recall,
          go to the limits of your longing.
          Embody me.
          Flare up like a flame
          and make big shadows I can move in.
          Let everything happen to you: beauty and terror.
          Just keep going. No feeling is final.
          Don’t let yourself lose me.
          Nearby is the country they call life.
          You will know it by its seriousness.
          Give me your hand.”
          -Ranier Maria Rilke

      • Jeff says:

        FWIW, domestic politics comes up in all my therapy sessions too…therapist says almost every client she has is troubled by it

        [Welcome to emptywheel. Please use a more differentiated username when you comment next as we have several community members named “Jeff” or “Jeffrey” or “Jeffery.” Thanks. /~Rayne]

      • taluslope says:

        I think this sh*t show has taught me something important for my life: how to live more in the moment. I can’t change them or thee, but I can change me. I’m trying to obtain and express more empathy (it’s hard) and let life move on.
        I’ve also wanted to be able to think more positive thoughts (it’s a choice after all) but that task so far eludes me.

      • Matthew Harris says:

        “Why hasn’t Joe Biden broken up the Republican Party by invoking RICO? Because he is a pawn of the big corporate interests” — only slightly hyperbole of things I have heard.

        • Scott Johnson says:

          Actually, a good chunk of the “dirtbag left” are going the other way, “the DOJ is taking political prisoners!”

    • paul lukasiak says:

      People haven’t been whining about the lack of sedition charges against the small fry already charged.

      They’re “whining” about no charges at all being filed against all the white collar criminals involved in trying to fraudulently overturn the actual election results.

      The severity of the potential sentences might actually result in someone giving up Roger Stone — especially since Stone was hanging out with Oath Keepers right before the seditious riot.

      But does anyone really expect Stone to not be Trump’s firewall again, just like he was with the Russia probe?

      The real threat to democracy wasn’t the oath keepers on 1/6. It was Trump, Meadows, Clark, Mitchell, Giuliani and doubtless many others who were engaged in their own seditious conspiracy, but one that Garland’s DoJ seems decidedly uninterested in investigating.

      And THAT is what we’re whining about.

      • Rayne says:

        Jesus Christ, we’ve heard you ad nauseum and you still aren’t reading and absorbing what’s been written here. We get it, you don’t grasp the strategy which is a lot like chess, and you want instantaneous gratification. This isn’t the place for it.

        You really, REALLY aren’t getting exactly how dangerous the OathKeepers were to democracy when they were prepared to engage in armed violence to stop Congress from doing its duty. The attack dogs as much as the dogs’ leash holders must be stopped; the dogs are removed first.

        Just stop whining, or take it someplace else.

        • paul lukasiak says:

          So your position is that its okay if Trump and his close friends are not held accountable, as long as a couple of dozen white supremacist idiots do time? Oathkeepers are only a threat to democracy if they have the backing of people in actual power.

          Because there is no evidence that anyone holding a leash is even being investigated by the DoJ so far for their efforts to steal a federal election. (and lets not even get into how Trump is being given a pass on the Mueller obstruction charges…)

          And none of your insults can change that simple fact.

        • Rayne says:

          This: “So your position is that its okay if Trump and his close friends are not held accountable, as long as a couple of dozen white supremacist idiots do time?” is an attempt to put your fucking bullshit in my mouth and I’m not having it. If anybody is insulting here it’s you trashing our intelligence with your disinfo/misinfo masquerading as whining.

          Get this through your head: Persons in this country are presumed innocent until proven guilty through Due Process. Under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution,

          No person shall … be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

          And under the Fourteenth Amendment,

          …nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

          Too fucking bad for your toddlerish attitude that a nation of laws actually follows its laws which takes considerable time given the largest investigation ever, instead of sweeping people up first and charging them after the fact because you need your pound of flesh right now.

          Only surprised you haven’t begun screaming for a Department of Pre-Crime.

        • Xboxershorts says:

          Well said and with much more grace than I would have used. I totally GET the need to hold the leaders and planners of this decades long conspiracy to install an authoritarian theocratic Gov’t in place of our (sort of) representative republic.

          But man, it takes real time to put together a case against a former president of the united states that can’t be squirmed or lawyered out of.

          And we should not lose sight of the fact that Jan 6th would never have happened if there weren’t significant financing that had foreknowledge of the goal as well. We need to get the financiers in a big way too.

          We MUST dot every I and cross every T and ensure any case brought to bear is water tight because you just don’t go after former presidents of the United States based upon a hunch.

          Y’all whiners need to check yourselves and pay closer attention to
          things that are dropping. Chill out…smoke a bowl, take yer xanax, whatever ya need to do to stop putting bullshit like “Trump’s gonna walk” out there, because it makes you look like a troll.

        • Al Ostello says:

          It took 2 long years of careful investigations before dozens of Nixon’s aides were indicted after the Watergate break-in. Many additional months for them to be jailed.

        • Ramona Rosario says:

          As far as the January 6 Insurrection is concerned Trump could only wield a threat because of the Oathkeepers, Threepercenters, Proudboys and their like! Of course, charging the leaders of such groups with seditious conspiracy is a first step in working up the chain to Stone, Bannon and Trump!

      • WilliamOckham says:

        Have you thought through the implications of your position? I happen to agree that it’s pretty obvious that Trump, et. al. engaged in seditious conspiracy (among a whole host of other illegal behavior). Where I disagree is the notion that Garland could snap his fingers and throw the lot in jail. That’s just the Green Lantern theory of law enforcement. Over here in the real world, we need to think of the political implications of how the conspiracy gets prosecuted.

        Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that there is clear prosecutable case against Trump for conspiracy. Have you thought about how many people were involved in that conspiracy? Just on January 2 (yes, the second day of January in the year 2021), there were over 300 state and local officials who participated AND over 100 federal officer holders. When I say “participated”, I mean they took an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy. Dozens more political hacks were involved as well. This case won’t just decapitate the Republican party, it will hack it into a million pieces and set fire to the remains.

        This will make Watergate look like busting up a loud party on Saturday night. And I don’t see how prosecutors can really avoid that if they honestly charge the crimes in evidence. And, you know, charging about 1000 members of one political party has certain, shall we say, implications.

        So, if I was sitting in the DOJ right now, I might be thinking that getting my ducks in a row before I charge into that morass would be a good idea. Not charging Trump and crew would be a horrible travesty. Charging them and failing to win a conviction would be the end of democracy in this country.

        What’s the rush? To assuage your personal feelings of powerlessness in the face of a psychopath like Trump getting away with insurrection?

        • Xboxershorts says:

          “This case won’t just decapitate the Republican party, it will hack it into a million pieces and set fire to the remains.”

          Good riddance to bad rubbish. They have refused to be a good faith partner in governance ever since they let the Evangelicals and John Birchers have a seat that the table of power.

          And everything they’ve done since has weakened this nation.

        • J R in WV says:

          I was pretty glad to see the multiple forged elector documents (5 different states at least?) the pother day. That shows combined action, identical fonts and language.

          And today’s indictments are a big step up the pyramid toward the top conspirators. Like so many of us, I’ve been tense, treated for dental problems from grinding expensive crowns into grains in my mouth as I sleep for example. I’m doing better with President Biden in office. I’m old enough I may not see this unfold all the way,, but I know who is guilty of much of this conspiracy.

          I’m most angry with people who swore to defend the Constitution, as I did when enlisting into the USN a thousand years ago, and betrayed that oath! Even Trump did that, not that it meant anything to him. But the veterans and police officers, they should have, and do actually, know better than to conspire against the sitting Constitutional government. I hope all those guys get to serve 80+ years in a super-max prison, preferably in Cuba, else in the high desert of Florence, Colorado.

          And thanks Marcy, Rayne, even bmaz for all you do to round up the evidence in this unbelievable conspiracy to bring down our democratic government!

      • Robert N Eckert says:

        “People haven’t been whining about the lack of sedition charges against the small fry already charged.” Well, many of us have not liked seeing them sentenced more leniently than, say, petty thieves. Since I am usually accused of being totally ignorant of the law when I raise such complaints here, I will cite the chief judge in DC expressing the same exasperation: “The chief judge in Washington, DC’s federal court laid into the Justice Department on Thursday [this was back in October] for its “schizophrenic” and “puzzling” approach to January 6 cases, saying judges’ hands are tied from giving hefty punishments because prosecutors keep offering misdemeanor deals to rioters.
        Calling the insurrection the “crime of the century,” Chief Judge Beryl Howell of DC District Court said prosecutors’ charging decisions and their suggested punishments for some nonviolent rioters are “baffling” and “peculiar.”
        Prosecutors have used scorching language to condemn the attack on democracy, while simultaneously letting nonviolent rioters plead guilty to a petty misdemeanor and recommending probation in many cases…
        “This is a muddled approach by the government,” Howell said. “No wonder parts of this public are confused about whether what happened on January 6 at the Capitol was simply a petty offense of trespassing, with some disorderliness, or was shocking criminal conduct that posed a grave threat to our democratic norms.”

        • bmaz says:

          Listen, judges say all kinds of shit. It may or may not mean diddly squat. Most of the people that keep focusing on random judge musings don’t really know trial courts and judges. Here is the thing, said judges can reject a proffered plea. None have. Said judges can sentence up to the max on the charges at bar in the sentencing. None have. Not one. So, until one or both occur, their random musings mean absolutely nothing.

          Also, too, petty thieves are almost always in state or local courts. How those cases go has NOTHING to do with federal district courts, and it is a fool’s errand to try to equate them.

        • Robert N Eckert says:

          If you don’t like petty theft as an example of an offense drawing only minor punishment, then pick your own. The point which you missed is that, until this week’s action (which does make DoJ’s critics feel more assured), for all of 2021 the message sent was that participating in an attempt to overthrow the republic will have little consequence.

        • bmaz says:

          No. It was a ridiculous analogy, and that is being kind. Complex conspiracies are unique cases, and I have no desire to engage in false analogies.

          “…for all of 2021 the message sent was that participating in an attempt to overthrow the republic will have little consequence.”

          What a load of bunk. You read this blog, so you should well know that said statement is complete garbage. But, hey, keep grousing while ignoring what has been going on from the start.

    • pdaly says:

      Placing this near the top comments although not directly relevant to PJ Evans comment (I agree with you, PJ Evans)

      wrt: Emptywheel’s comment in the main post about Meggs “I noted (I’ll find the link later) that this was probably a conference call.”

      Link to emptywheel’s “rough capture of the communications” to date

      I haven’t found the emptywheel post in which it originally appeared.

      This July 4, 2021 emptywheel post discusses the Quick Reaction Force’s weapons cache in that Comfort Inn in Ballston, VA. The post also includes Meggs’ comment on Jan 3, 2021 (perhaps telegraphing a rally point where the QRF and/or the weapons would arrive):
      “1 if by land North side of Lincoln Memorial 2 if by sea Corner of west basin and Ohio is a water transport landing !!”

      [oops. I see that emptywheel already included this link in the original post here]

    • biff murphy says:

      In all fairness, no one thought we’d have to wait over a year for the serious charges to drop.
      I want to see mtg, gymmy, and broebert go down as well, that might be another year unless these plea deals yield some pertinent info.

  1. harpie says:

    10. […] The other half of Stack One headed toward the House of Representatives, in search of Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi. They did not find Speaker Pelosi and ultimately left the building.

    12. QRF teams [plural]

    • harpie says:

      The Conspiracy
      . From in and around November 2020, through in and around January 2021, in the District of Columbia and elsewhere, the defendants, [RHODES, MEGGS, HARRELSON, WATKINS, JAMES, MINUTA, HACKETT, MOERSCHEL, ULRICH, CALDWELL, and VALLEJO] did knowingly conspire, confederate, and agree, with other persons known and unknown to the Grand Jury, by force to prevent, hinder, and delay the execution of any law of the United States.

        • paul lukasiak says:

          wouldn’t some of the “known” include the Oath Keepers who have pled guilty and are cooperating (plus Ray Epps, who probably is now a cooperating witness who has not yet been charged)?

          Or does the indictment mean that they know of other co-conspirators that will be charged at some time in the future?

        • P J Evans says:

          It’s something of a catch-all: there may be people who were involved but haven’t yet been identified.

        • Leoghann says:

          “[O]ther persons known and unknown” just means the conspiracy wasn’t limited to the listed individuals. But DOJ, throughout this investigation, has been using language no doubt calculated to make others involved as paranoid as possible.

        • Peterr says:

          I’m not sure these others involved could be any more paranoid than they already are.

          Besides, as the old saying goes, it’s not paranoia if they *are* out to get you.

      • Eureka says:

        And not that they need to clutter-up this indictment, but some slightly shifted language (elsewhere) could include Macias & LaMotta showing up to the Pennsylvania Convention Center area (Philly vote count) with their Qanon hummer & weapons. [And if not armed-type violently, but symbolically so, SoRelle and her Detroit TCF shenanigans.]

        #wrap-it-up, wrap-it-in wishlist

        • Leoghann says:

          Are they still awaiting trial? I thought their cases were decided, but I can’t find any further information on them since last March, when the judge declined to dismiss.

        • Eureka says:

          Same result I got when I last looked into this (maybe a couple months ago now) — blank since March. And I meant to inquire with a journalist then…

          So, yes, still awaiting trial AFAIK. But there could be some fallout from their 1/6-ing (at a relative distance if indeed in the restricted area for at least one of them, I forget now if both were so-located) and IMO the alleged (and not alleged) crimes are linked, continuous variables in any case.

    • harpie says:

      Purpose of the Conspiracy
      . The purpose of the conspiracy was to oppse the lawful transfer of presidential pwer by force, by preventing, hindering, or delaying by force the execution of the laws governing the transfer of power, including the Twelfth and Twentieth Amendments to the Constitution and Title 3, Section 15 of the United States Code.

    • harpie says:

      [First mention of ANTIFA]

      77. Just before 1:30 p.m., on the Leadership Intel Chat, in response to a claim by an Oath Keepers affiliate that Antifa had breached the Capitol, RHODES replied, “Nope. I’m right here. These are Patriots.” RHODES then messaged the Leadership Signal Chat, “Pence is doing nothing. As I predicted.” RHODES added, “All I see Trump doing is complaining. I see no intent by him to do anything. So the patriots are taking it into their own hands. They’ve had enough.”

    • harpie says:

      79. Shortly before 2:00 p.m., on an invitation-only Signal group chat titled, “Jan 5/6 DC Op Intel team” – which included RHODES, JAMES and others – a participant posted a link to a video titled “live stream of patriots storming capital.” Another participant asked, “Are they actually Patriots – not those who were going to go in disguise as Patriots and cause trouble[?]” RHODES responded, “Actual Patriots. Pissed off patriots[.] Like the Sons of Liberty were pissed off patriots[.]” JAMES followed with, “Were coming to Capitol ETA 30 MIN[.]”

      • harpie says:

        80. Around this same time [shortly before 2:00 PM], while MEGGS, WATKINS, HACKETT, MOERSCHEL, and others were marching toward the Capitol, WATKINS made an announcement on the “Stop the Steal J6” channel on Zello, an application that emulates push-to-talk walkie-talkies over cellular telephone networks: “It has spread like wildfire that Pence has betrayed us, and everybody’s marching on the Capitol…We have about 30-40 of us. We are sticking together and sticking to the plan.”

        • harpie says:


          RHODES lawyer SORRELLE:

          [..] You guys should enjoy it, they broke the barrier. They got up there.
          They may end up inside before it’s all said and done, and that’s OK too.
          It’s how you take your government back.
          Ya literally take it back! […]

        • matt fischer says:

          Per TPM:

          …Moseley [an attorney representing Rhodes in civil matters] has been trying to help find a Texas criminal defense attorney to represent Rhodes. He told TPM that he called Kellye SoRelle, the Oath Keepers’ general counsel who was subject to a federal search warrant in September that cited “seditious conspiracy.” It’s not clear if SoRelle has managed to find Rhodes an attorney.

        • bmaz says:

          Well, that is kind of silly by Moseley. Rhodes is indicted in DC, not Texas. He needs a DC admitted atty, not some yokel in Texas.

        • Leoghann says:

          IIRC you’ve spoken well of Moseley in the past, but I’m starting to wonder about his current grasp on reality. He was continuing to push Tucker Fishstick for an interview Thursday, even after Rhodes had been hauled in. And he’s been trying to find him a Texas lawyer. He may just be following directions, but doing all this on his own, it doesn’t bode well.

        • bmaz says:

          No, I do not look on Moseley favorably. The only thing I have ever said about him is that once, and only once, I saw him on a CNN interview, and he presented as not insane. That is far different than he appears everywhere else. I have nothing favorable to say about him.

        • Eureka says:

          I still find SoRelle’s soothing ~ ‘assault* is ok, really, just watch and get comfortable with it’ to be beyond creepy (*how else did they “break the line”: the line is people. Not to mention the building breach which she anticipates for her livestreamees. Nor the other metaphors I have in mind).

          I also find 88. & 89. interesting (2:24 & 225 PM – just before the call Marcy flagged above & awhile back) because Stewie characterizes the *East* side as the *South* side [remember that day I got all rotated around (NNE to SSE) from their gaslighting. Fuckers].

        • Leoghann says:

          I’m picturing Stewie Griffin with an eye patch and an AR-15.

          And yeah, Kellye SoRelle has clearly been in on the planning of this for a long time, and not in her role as their lawyer.

        • pdaly says:

          Eureka, do you think he was confused about his directions?

          I’m wondering aloud, if east side was his pre-planned location, then was he talking ‘House of Representatives’ side (which would be south side) as opposed to north side (which is Senate)?

        • Eureka says:

          Yes, from para. 89+* I think he’s just confused — he wanted them to come to where he was [the East side], sent a photo of his location on the East side, but was calling it the South side in error. I don’t think he was referring to the innards of the building (I see where you’re going with that; you’re way smarter than he is and the Stackers themselves, too, always seemed sharper than Rhodes on the details). Completely consistent with his inept, gun-laden love of mil-like ops (marketers would call him a buyer of things, not experiences), he’s got no clue on the cardinal directions.

          *Also I’d like clarity/memory refreshment on what we know about this but the way gov describes (90.) the Stack traveling _northbound_ to arrive at East Plaza makes it sound like the Stack came _from_ the south, unless this is just an unclear sentence/omits an arc of travel (because rounding from N to E obviously would require some _southbound_ travel).

        • Rayne says:

          Really not clear what was meant by northbound. Cellphone traffic shows there are folks on the south side but many more toward north side. And I think if those IEDs were part of the equation known to conspirators the south side traffic we see may not be insurrectionists alone but LEO keeping people away from area under investigation not much further south.

          ADDER: this image was from my post about cellphones tracked on map on January 6.

        • Eureka says:

          Gov might also have omitted some Abbott & Costello comms (implicit in Rhodes sending photo) if Stackers were indeed coming from S to E as 90. is phrased:

          Stewie: Come to me I’m going to the South

          Stack: We’re _in_ the south already, where tf are you?

          Stewie, East, sends pix: I’m right here in the South!

          [Less incompetent Stack arrives E at Stewie’s location.]

        • Eureka says:

          In the back of my mind the whole while is the contrast between my WWII vet grandfather (and all of that weight) who trained his kids from wee on navigating cardinal directions using signs from nature (get yourself out of the woods via the stars, etc.) vs. this iteration of purposeless cosplayers found (and readied for real action) by some grifters/ing and a “cause”.

        • Leoghann says:

          It’s hard to learn directions from natural cues when you spend most of your time in your mother’s basement or in your tinfoil-lined computer room.

      • pdaly says:

        “Around 2:12 pm.”

        Hmm. interesting timing as 2:12 pm is also the estimated moment when the first seditionist/obstructer enters the smashed window (on the west side of the Capitol).

        At 2:12 pm I suppose Rhodes was still outside the building in the northeast restricted grounds, but what interesting timing for Republican Rep Lauren Boebert on her private twitter feed 1/06/21 to then tweet out the following:

        We were locked in the House Chambers. [2:16 p.m.]*

        The Speaker has been removed from the Chambers. [2:17 p.m.]*

        *Snopes provides the timestamp for those Boebert tweets:

        “Boebert, a QAnon supporter representing Colorado’s 3rd District who promised to carry a gun to Congress, posted the above-displayed messages to her personal account (her official congressional account is @RepBoebert) at 2:16 and 2:17 p.m. EST. This was approximately the same time that Pelosi and the other members of the house were being rushed to a safe location.”

        • Rayne says:

          According to Costa/Woodward’s ‘Peril’, Pence was removed from the Senate chamber at 2:13. Was the smashed window the trigger to do so?

        • pdaly says:

          I think so. The window was smashed between 2:11pm and 2:12pm (I’ve seen both times).

          on edit:
          Also at or around 2:13 pm
          “The Senate immediately went into recess. The C-SPAN feed providing live footage of the proceedings was shut off.”

          It’s from Carol Leonnig & Philip Rucker’s book about Trump “I Alone Can Fix It” as excerpted by them in their July 2021 article in The Washington Post.

        • pdaly says:

          Thanks for the confirmation, Peterr.

          The Trump-Sen. Tuberville (R-AL) phone call via ‘the Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) switchboard’ happed at soon after the C-SPAN feed was cut off.

          2:24 pm Trump tweets Mike Pence didn’t have the courage […]

          2:26 pm Capitol security video shows Secret Service moving VP Pence and family from the office near the Senate Chambers to a new secure location in the basement garage.

          2:26 pm The Trump-Sen. Tuberville (R-AL) phone call which reportedly ends as “Mr. President, they’ve taken the Vice President out. They want me to get off the phone. I gotta go”

          I guess if the live feed of the Senate Chambers was cut off while I was watching VP Pence from my WH dining room TV, then I might want to misdial into the Capitol, too, and find out what’s happening.

          Pure speculation on my part, what if Tuberville’s last words were not just an excuse to end the call but also an answer to a direct question from then-Pres. Trump, “Where is Mike Pence?”?

          Some reports of the call I’ve read differ on the room from which Tuberville was speaking, the Senate Chamber vs. the room off of the Senate Chamber.

        • harpie says:


          What if TUBERVILLE’s last words were not just an excuse to end the call
          but also an answer to a direct question from then-Pres. TRUMP, “Where is Mike Pence?”?

        • harpie says:

          2:26 PM TRUMP calls TUBERVILLE [from WaPo]
          TRUMP: Coach, how’s it going?
          TUBERVILLE: Not very good, Mr. President. As a matter of fact, they’re about to evacuate us.
          TRUMP: I know we’ve got problems.
          TUBERVILLE: Mr. President, they just took our vice president out. They’re getting ready to drag me out of here. I got to go.

        • Rayne says:

          The Tuberville call is a black hole in Costa/Woodward’s ‘Peril’; Tuberville is mentioned only once and in relation to a vote on Arizona’s certification.

          Pence’s National Security Advisor Keith Kellogg appears to check on Trump just after Trump’s 2:24 pm tweet about Pence, but there’s no mention of Trump on the phone with Tuberville. Kellogg told Trump the VP was secure, to which Trump asked, “Where’s Mike?”

          Not clear now if Kellogg saw Trump in that narrow window between the tweet and Tuberville’s call, or if Kellogg saw Trump after the call to Tuberville.

          Did Trump ask both Tuberville and Kellogg about Pence’s location?

        • pdaly says:

          That Trump-Tuberville phone call (via Sen. Lee’s phone) lasted from 2:26-2:30 p.m.?

          If so, definitely seems like the known conversation you have above would last under 20 seconds. I agree we don’t know the whole conversation.
          In addition, Lee implied he had to go back to Tuberville to retrieve his phone. Wouldn’t have had time to walk too far away from Tuberville if the above words were the only ones spoken between Trump and Tuberville.

        • pdaly says:

          I know I’m getting ahead of things here, but if prison guards as a group tack more right than left politically, where are we going to place all the purported seditionists and obstructionists?

          We don’t want to hand them an Elba Island.

          Do we need a new prison run by left leading social workers instead of prison guards? :-)

          If Trump were put in prison and acted up, I don’t believe in solitary confinement, so I’d grant him company in the form a TV program. Perhaps a continuous loop of Hilary Clinton then AOC and then Elizabeth Warren laughing? Not pontificating, just laughing, for laughter is the best medicine. Let’s keep it bipartisan and include Liz Cheney in the loop, too.

        • Ravenclaw says:

          I’m okay with giving them an Elba. DJT isn’t going to make a daring escape by boat & lead an army to take DC. If a theme park empire with MAGA tourists funding the show is what it takes to bring an end to this, so be it. But yeah, I’d prefer a St. Helen. Maybe Denmark will sell us Mykines Island for the purpose. (While we’re dreaming.)

        • pdaly says:

          Definitely a St. Helena or Mykines. I’m not as sanguine as you that Trump et al would not jump on a ship from a modern day Elba and re-attack DC.

          Although MAGAts paying to visit Trumpland, and all proceeds going to the U.S. Treasury might help offset the cost to taxpayers of housing US Secret Service details staying at all the Trump-owned hotels over the prior 4 years of Trump’s presidency.

        • Leoghann says:

          Mr. Clairol was always interested in Greenland. Maybe he should go there. Call it Mar-a-Hielo.

          OTOH, maybe Antifa International LLC would be interested in opening a private prison.

        • Overshire says:

          Rather than St Helena, may I recommend Mount St Helens? Slap on top of an active volcano seems a good place to stash these folks.

        • Leoghann says:

          And it frequently belches gas in large volumes, so they’ll have something in common with their surroundings.

    • harpie says:

      108. At 3:09 p.m., another individual messaged the Leadership Signal Chat that the “news is reporting Congress given gas masks and are trying to get out.” RHODES responded, “fuck em,” before posting a photograph of people storming the Capitol.

  2. Bay State Librul says:

    Shit, I misread the lead. I thought they dropped the seditious charge, and it went up in smoke.

  3. punaise says:

    On the fly, apologies to Smokey Robinson:

    Oh, but if you feel like anarchy
    Since you did the mission
    I second that sedition
    Said, if you feel like giving thee
    A lifetime of detention
    I second that court motion

  4. Dopey-o says:

    From reading Emptywheel, it is my understanding that seditious conspiracy is much harder to prove in court, so the DOJ must have some pretty compelling evidence to up the ante from obstruction to seditious conspiracy.
    Hoping this is just the first crack in the dam.

    • Ravenclaw says:

      Yes, they had two humiliating failures back in the day, one with a very blatant conspiracy by a group with armed militias who were caught on tape. Even though those trials were a long time ago, DOJ seems to be very cautious about trying right-wing extremist/white supremacist types on sedition charges. So this is big news.

      • Leoghann says:

        They were so overconfident and careless in that Arkansas thing in ’89 that they accidentally allowed two women on the jury who were prison pen pals with two of the defendants.

    • Matthew Harris says:

      I think that the Department of Justice went slow because they wanted to prove their case—and not generate headlines. The proponents of Green Lantern Theory don’t realize that proving conspiracy is difficult, and it took them this long to bring it because the DOJ needed to either get some cooperating witnesses, or decrypt/access some documents. If they are bringing charges against Rhodes, who was never there, they probably have a witness who heard Rhodes say “please break the law for me”, some documents where he says the same thing, or probably both. They aren’t bringing this case based on inference and the fact that he was in the vicinity.

      • Scott Johnson says:

        I think that the proponents of “green lantern theory” ultimately are observing, correctly, that the Republicans do all sorts of illegal shit while in power, frequently getting away with it, and are therefore demanding that Democrats do the same.

        Why, for instance, isn’t Merritt Garland calling up Senator Manchin with the (hypothetical) news that a grand jury has indicted his daughter, and FBI agents will be perp-walking her to jail within the hour if he gives the word…. and it’s a damn shame that the Building Back Better act seems hung up in the Senate?

        Or at a minimum, the demand that the DOJ essentially change its charging standards from “very likely to win a conviction before an impartial jury” to “the defendant is a ham sandwich who will be indicted simply becase we can” and engage in malicious prosecutions of various 1/6 figures and Trump officials? (Here, “malicious prosecution” means “prosecution meant to embarrass, harass, impoverish, humiliate, or threaten the defendant, by forcing them to endure the stigma of indictment and the expense of mounting a defense, but of a case that has a poor chance of success on the merits?”)

        We saw the same dynamic with Obama in 2009, and the demand that various banksters be thrown in jail. Trouble was, much of what caused the financial crisis of 2008 was not illegal, and the things that were, were awfully hard to prove.

        • Rayne says:

          Good Christ. I should have read further to see this comment first. You wrote 235 words in this comment and another 162 words nine minutes later and I don’t see how this total 397 words sheds any real light on the seditious conspiracy charges addressed in this post. It’s just partisan chatter encouraging departure from essential little d democratic values.

        • Troutwaxer says:

          I’ve read Scott’s comment three times now and I think he’s agreeing with you; he’s just going a little deeper into why the “green lantern theorists” think the way they do. I don’t think he’s advocating, he’s providing examples.

        • Troutwaxer says:

          I’d agree that he’s not a particularly pithy commentator. He could say it more clearly and in half the words he uses, but I don’t think he’s ridiculously out of line either. He just needs to edit his comments before posting and cut at least 25%.

        • Scott Johnson says:

          Shorter version: Green lantern theorists want the Biden Administration to play just as dirty as the GOP does (or they think they do).

    • Paulka says:

      A question about this, I have seen it argued (on NRO-blech) that sedition is likely a fail for this case because of the mens rea needs to convict. Ex. If the defendants honestly believed they were acting lawfully, then sedition is not applicable. Their motivation was not to combat America and it’s laws (say as a jihadist would), but believed, based on Trump’s lies that they were acting within the law.

      • Matthew Harris says:

        As far as I know, in the real world, that excuse doesn’t work. That is why Sovereign Citizens never get a break based on their own “interpretation” of the laws, although they might get a break based on mental incompetency.

        If I “honestly believe” that since city garbage trucks are public property, I can take one and joy ride around town, that isn’t really going to be a defense that lets me off the hook—unless, of course, it is an issue of mental competency.

        Unless there is something about sedition that makes it different from any other crime, people’s “honest beliefs” aren’t going to matter except (again) as a mental competency defense.

  5. WilliamOckham says:

    Question. In paragraph 19, who is “the operational leader”?

    On November 9, 2020, RHODES held a private GoToMeeting-an online meeting site that allows users to host conference calls and video conferences via the Internet-limited to Oath Keepers members, titled, “Oath Keepers National Call – Members Only,” which was attended by MEGGS, HARRELSON, WATKINS, HACKETT, and others, including a person whom RHODES appointed as the operation leader for January 6, 2021. During the meeting, RHODES outlined a plan to stop the lawful transfer of presidential power, including preparations for the use of force, and urged those listening to participate.

    Is that Walden, the guy who is cooperating?

        • phred says:

          From EW’s updated post above:

          “It appears that the government has gotten Jonathan Walden to flip, because he has now been charged separately. And Mike Simmons, who in all earlier indictments was called “Person Ten,” here is just described as “operational leader,” which suggests he’s no longer treated as a co-conspirator, either.”

          I’ll leave this stuff to you, harpie, & EW, and go back to quietly lurking ; )

        • Barb says:

          Note Marcy’s last sentence in above post: Update: Correcting that Walden must be cooperating. I think that’s a misreading.

          Sounds like it’s still questionable whether Waldon flipped.

        • phred says:

          Thanks harpie : ) But I am strapped for time these days, so I am just trailing along in your wake : ) I checked in a few times earlier today to see what else you were adding to the thread. Thanks so much on behalf of all of us who haven’t had time to read the indictment yet!

          And that $40,000 – whew! Did Stewie inherit a pile or is all of that from the Oath Keepers swear jar? One can’t help wonder if someone is underwriting his gun addiction ; )

    • Leoghann says:

      I’m confused. I’m interpreting the term “operational leader for January 6” to mean the big daddy-rabbit on the ground–the one that all other active fighters took orders from. But it appears Simmons is being given lighter charges.

    • dwfreeman says:

      “On Nov. 9, Meadows called Esper in the afternoon to say Trump was going to fire him,” Bob Woodward and Robert Costa reported in their book, Peril, in the lead-up to Trump’s surprising firing of Esper in order to install new leadership at the Pentagon in the waning days of his presidency.

      Meadows tells Esper that he hasn’t done enough to support the president, so he’s done. “I recognize that the president has this authority. My oath is to the Constitution,” Esper responds. Eight seconds later, at 12:54 pm, Trump announced by tweet that Esper had been “terminated. I would like to thank him for his service,” he wrote.

      Trump appointed Chris Miller, head of the Counterrorism Center, his new acting secretary of defense. In the inner circle of the Trump administration, this move was regarded as a dangerous warning signal. Firing the secretary of defense was symbolically different from removing others from cabinet posts because of the vast military and weaponry controlled by anyone in that post.

      Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Esper’s dismissal seemed palpable, and it reminded him of a statement Trump had made to Brietbart News in March 2019: “I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the bikers for Trump. I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough until they go to a certaiin point, and then it would be very, very bad.”

      I thought of that quote specifically yesterday when the Oathkeeper indictment was announced. On Jan. 6, every one of those groups was represented in the insurrection at the Capitol. They all came to participate at Trump’s invitation. And, when push came to shove, Miller either through deliberate intent or willful inaction set terms for DC National Guard use that day which denied their presence until after the horde had lost its energy and was cleared from the Capitol without providing any immediate support in spite of at least 14 known emergency calls for assistance from law enforcement and elected officials, including Pence, who at one point screamed at Miller in a brief phone conversation, “Clear the Capitol.” This was not long after he had been taken to the basement garage location by his secret service detail. Miller never called Trump on Jan. 6 to confer with him about the situation at the Capitol, insisting there was no need.

      In the wake of Esper’s firing, Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, a former CIA director and a West Point classmate of Esper, had a conversation that touched on Trump’s state of mind and their own at that point. “You know,” Pompeo said, “(Trump) is in a very dark place right now.” Milley thought of transition and stability, recognizing the firing amid election upheaval seemed a turning point, perhaps toward a mindless march into more and more disorder.

      “We’ve got to stand shoulder to shoulder,” Pompeo told Milley. “We’re the Last Mohicans.”

      At 8:10 am on Nov. 10, the first woman to lead the CIA, director Gina Haspel, a 35-year agency veteran, put a finer point on the move during a phone call with Milley. She was upset about Esper’s dismissal but was also thinking Trump wanted to fire her. “Yesterday was appaling. We are on the way to a right-wing coup. The whole thing is insanity.”

      That afternoon in a conversation in the Oval Office with Hope Hicks, Trump made clear that his supporters expected him to go all-in in his bid to remain in office. “I don’t care about my legacy. My legacy doesn’t matter. If I lose, that will be my legacy. My people expect me to fight,” he said. “And if I don’t, I’ll lose’em.”

  6. Joe Sommer says:

    The only thing that surprises me is that Rhodes’ lawyer is Jonathon Moseley. I doubt that Rhodes could afford BigLaw, and BigLaw often isn’t the best choice for criminal cases. But there are plenty of other local practitioners, some of whom might be more experienced in working a DoJ full-court press. And Rhodes, I imagine, should know the difference.

    • Ravenclaw says:

      Moseley seems to crop up a lot. I’ve wondered whether he is of the same family as General Van Horn Moseley, a right-wing extremist who was intended for the role of acting Fuhrer by the 1940 conspirators…

    • PJB says:

      Looks like Moseley is trying to book Rhodes on Tucker tonight. Makes sense since Hannity got Manafort last night, Tucker has to remain top dog.

        • Scott Johnson says:


          Unless the defense is to be “I’m a political prisoner and this is persecution!”, the facts of the case be damned.

        • Gerard Plourde says:

          I think that you’ll find that the “I’m a political prisoner” defense often falls on deaf ears.

        • Yohei72 says:

          To state the obvious, they may be strategizing for pardons in 2025 from a prospective President Trump. Doing stupid things from a conventional criminal defense perspective while working the conspiratorial political angle in the media worked for Manafort and Bannon and Stone and Flynn and I forget who else. But it seems really stupid in this case, to my amateur eyes. These Oathkeeper guys don’t seem to have noticed that Trump hangs most of his allies out to dry, or that he isn’t too likely to ever be in the Oval Office again. Does putting Rhodes on Fox News to rant make sense from any other angle than this, though?

        • P J Evans says:

          Avenatti is trying that one. He claims he’s spent 94 days in solitary with only “Art of the Deal” to read, and it’s because he criticized the former guy.

      • Leoghann says:

        I’m having a hearty chortle at Moseley apparently thinking someone would have Rhodes back out on the streets within moments, so he could do his “important” interview with Tucker Fishstick.

  7. Judy says:

    I’m probably going out on a limb but am interested in how what we saw on Jan 6, ties in to the ‘alternate’ slates of electors that recently hit the news. Also, can anyone explain why/how the documents would be presented/accepted to the National Archive?

    • paul lukasiak says:

      This paragraph of the indictment strongly suggest little or no connection between the planned attack on the capitol, and Trump’s own seditious conspiracy…

      77. Just before 1:30 p.m., on the Leadership Intel Chat, in response to a claim by an Oath Keepers affiliate that Antifa had breached the Capitol, RHODES replied, “Nope. I’m right here. These are Patriots.” RHODES then messaged the Leadership Signal Chat, “Pence is doing nothing. As I predicted.” RHODES added, “All I see Trump doing is complaining. I see no intent by him to do anything. So the patriots are taking it into their own hands. They’ve had enough.”

      • Rayne says:

        This comment is not responsive to Judy’s, for starters.

        Secondly, the indictment today spells out the unlawful actions of those indicted. You’ll have to wait for future indictments to flesh out what you’re seeking though we know just how challenged your patience is. Pay more attention to what Rhodes indicated in the chat: he was closely monitoring what Trump was doing, enough that he knew Trump was doing nothing. If Rhodes was focused solely on OathKeepers disrupting the certification, he wouldn’t need to know what Trump was doing.

    • WilliamOckham says:

      The documents where sent mostly via registered mail. None of them were “accepted” by the National Archives because none of them came with an ascertainment.

    • paul lukasiak says:

      [Content removed. You duplicated your 5:09 comment again here after bmaz already told you at 5:15 to give it a rest, disregarding a moderator. Knock it off. /~Rayne]

  8. joel fisher says:

    If only this were true: “because now Republicans will be hard pressed to continue to downplay January 6.” You don’t know the cowardly, lying, evil, degenerate scum like I do. They talk, their droolers listen; end of story. The downplays won’t change in any discernable way.

    • Rayne says:

      I think we know exactly who the GOP is but this isn’t about the GOP voter but the GOP members of Congress. “Hard pressed” means they have two primary tacks to take: double down on their bullshit, or angle toward a defense which for some may include prepping for co-operation ahead of a plea agreement.

      We can see their media mouthpieces have been trying to whitewash and sanitize what happened on January 6:

      Funny how Hume tweeted this around 8 hours after Rhodes’ attorney contacted Tucker Carlson’s account but less than 3 hours before news broke Rhodes was indicted and arrested.

      But now that the public can see the OathKeepers’ portion of the overarching conspiracy and grasp the organization was prepared for violence against Congress, AND that some members of Congress had no fear at all of the insurrectionists because they were likely informed and/or part of the conspiracy.

      The GOP, member by member of Congress, will have to fish or cut bait.

      • Scott Johnson says:

        One of the downsides of the “Select Committee moves from the top down, DOJ from bottom up” approach is that guilty members of Congress, at this time, need not fear the Select Committee. It can’t DO anything to them, and unless a major dam breaks, there won’t be the 2/3 vote necessary in either House for an expulsion. The normal process of institutional shame and comity no longer exists; if MTG were to punch AOC in the face in the well of the House, she would certainly be censured (majority vote) but certainly not expelled (2/3), with quite a few of her peers giving speeches about how the treasonous AOC deserved it and was lucky it was just a punch. (And were she arrested for assault, a defense of how her slugging a fellow congresswoman was in fact speech, and thus protected by the Speech and Debate Clause).

        But if the DOJ invites them for a chat, that will be another matter.

        • Rayne says:

          This: “if MTG were to punch AOC in the face in the well of the House, she would certainly be censured” has dick-all to do with the January 6 investigation process and everything to do with MTG being an obnoxious narcissistic bully and the people of her district having questionable values in selecting her to represent them because she represents her ‘roid rage brand and not them.

          And the 2/3 vote for expulsion is on us: if Americans don’t elect enough true Democrats -OR- Republicans like Evan Mullins who are still sane, then we can’t expect anything more than this nasty stasis.

          You’re also really stretching Speech or Debate as a defense for violence in the workplace.

          DOJ will likely invite MTG for a visit, once they have enough solid evidence of her role in the conspiracy to obstruct Congress’s proceedings. Quit acting like lukasiak with this crap because we’ve been hearing it for a year now and it’s not helping further the investigation in any way, shape, or form.

        • BobCon says:

          I think it is also not at all sure the 1/6 Committee is taking a top down approach to members of Congress. They may well be doing a lot on the ground floor on the congressional level of gathering emails, phone data, and witness statements that would be useful in the long run to DOJ.

          Congress has very extensive authority to investigate its own workings before they reach the level of a criminal inquiry, and there are hints that the 1/6 Committee is doing that. They won’t tell anyone when they’re pulling server data, though.

          Jim Jordan’s refusal to testify, for example, may be based on his knowledge that the 1/6 Committee already has a lot of data that he can’t BS his way through without lying under oath.

        • Rayne says:

          If they’re following where the facts lead, J6 may not follow top-down across members of Congress precisely. But the latitude J6 has because they’re not constrained by probable cause as DOJ is and can pursue with reasonable suspicion for the benefit of future legislation/amendments.

        • Scott Johnson says:

          Sorry if I’m coming off as one of the “we’re all doomed, Garland is a weasel types”; I’m not.

          Legally, you are (of course) correct. I’m not worried about the law. And I’m not worried that Garland and the DOJ will do their jobs, or at least try to do so to the best of their abilities.

          My worry is about the politics. And as it becomes clearer that the DOJ is indeed taking this seriously, and that this is not a huge nothingburger–we are going to see movement into the “persecution!” phase of the defense. This is progress! The right (as well as Glenn Greenwald and other sympathizers on the “left”) is now having to play a card that they had been holding.

          And also to be clear–I don’t think that this is a valid use of Speech and Debate, at all. I wouldn’t at all be surprised were it to be deployed in such frivolous fashion, however–we’re dealing with an adversary that has proven itself utterly shameless and craven in its tactics, and loves to throw feces at the wall. And one which has a good chunk of the judiciary at least on its side (if not in it pocket), and a substantial minority of the population that thinks the 1/6 plotters are akin to the Founding Fathers and the government akin to George III, and view the matter as akin to warfare.

          Perhaps such observations are out of place here at emptywheel, and focus should be on the legal process, and frivolous arguments (and potential discussions) should be excluded from the discussion. Fair enough.

          On the other hand, a key observation applies. The DOJ has far more teeth than the Select Committee; as much of what it does is not public, and they can proceed rather quickly to detaining uncooperative suspects without all the drama and theater of a contempt referral.

          And “it’s on us” is true, but not reassuring. A third or so of the country wants the 1/6 plotters to win; and many of them would love to see AOC et al swinging from a tree. Barring some really major revelation–and I don’t know what it would suffice to move the needle at this point–we’re not going to have a Congress with a supermajority to expel the treason caucus any time soon. Quite a few of them will probably win re-election rather easily, and are highly representative of their districts. MTG represents a Trump+50 district, so I suspect she is EXACTLY what her constituents want, a violent fascist who would bring back Jim Crow if she could.

        • Rayne says:

          I am begging you, BEGGING YOU, PLEASE be more concise in comments. Brevity is the soul of wit. You just spent another 432 words on a comment which doesn’t really expand on the content of the post.

          We have posts periodically which are more inclined to pure political maundering. This isn’t it. Please respect community members who use mobile devices and must scroll-scroll-SCROLL to pass your comment to get to meat related to the post.

        • Scott Johnson says:

          OK. I’ll be more consise; thought you were objecting to content rather than length.

          (Perhaps you have no control over layout, but I have noticed that deeply nested comments are hard to read on a mobile device, unless you turn the screen horizontally).

        • BobCon says:

          I think you are misunderstanding how congressional investigations work.

          There is no obligation that they work in public, for example. They have the capacity to operate about as quietly as a DOJ investigation, and have for many years, although not so often recently.

          McCarthy’s decision to refuse to place anyone on the Committee after Pelosi refused to accept Jordaan helped ensure their capacity for secrecy, although rules for compartmentalizing staff may have already ensured much of their isolation from leaking members.

          You are correct that the House doesn’t have the strong enforcement powers of DOJ, but two factors limit that here. One is that subjects of information requests know that DOJ may well be working in tandem, and ticking off 1/6 increases the chances of DOJ getting nosier. Second companies like telecoms need favors from Congress. Billions can depend on a nod from Pelosi. And they may be worried about PR fallout from being nonresponsive. They may make a calculation to dodge the 1/6 Committee, but not lightly.

          And it is critical to note that Congress has a lot of freedom to investigate that DOJ does not. Congress can address issues purely on policy grounds which DOJ would need to consider in a criminal context. Congress can go to ATT and ask for records because it is carrying out a broad investigation prior to introducing legislation on white supremacist violence.

          The investigative powers of Congress are broader but less strong than DOJ. But when they are exercised relative to headline generating issues and in tandem with DOJ, Congress gains a lot of authority. That seems to be going on here, and in ways that are more complicated than simple top down/bottom up models.

      • BobCon says:

        The other piece is the mainstream DC press has been listening to the GOP PR machine and bending over backwards to do a couple of things.

        One is minimize the threat — essentially they’re refusing to think about what would have happened if the breakthrough was a couple of minutes faster and members of Congress hadn’t been secured.

        Another is pretend this is a mob problem and linkages anywhere else are sketchy and weak.

        They’ve been letting people like Erick Erickson and Bret Stephens do all of their analysis for them and tell them that this is not a GOP problem.

        The farther these charges go, and the stronger the linkages get to not just Trump but the rest of the GOP, the harder it gets for the PR side of the GOP to dominate the messaging.

        I think the Chuck Todds and Michael Schmidts are always going to be predisposed toward GOP message makers, but making the ground slippery under their feet is important to making politicians more nervous.

        • earthworm says:

          MSM headlines friday a.m. seeming to confirm your comment re mainstream DC media:
          downplaying capitol arrests and instead highlighting Biden failures.

      • harpie says:

        Just thinking about this synchronicity[?]:

        12:35 PM HAWLEY FIST PUMP
        12:36 PM [WaPo] PENCE arrives at the Capitol with his wife and daughter
        PENCE’s office releases the letter to Congress they had drafted:
        “As a student of history … I do not believe that the Founders of our country intended to invest the Vice President with unilateral authority to decide which electoral votes should be counted during the Joint Session of Congress…”

        • Eureka says:

          re: “12:35 PM HAWLEY FIST PUMP”

          The relatively new Beer Hall Project uses a silhouette of Josh Hawley with his raised fist in their profile photo — with a banner stating “It’s happened before” which combines images of early Nazis from the 1923 Putsch and 1/6.

          Beer Hall Project
          History may not repeat itself but it has a familiar beat. We can’t let it happen here.
          Donate to support our work
          United States of America

          Joined November 2021
          36 Following

      • Yohei72 says:

        “The GOP, member by member of Congress, will have to fish or cut bait… DOJ will likely invite MTG for a visit, once they have enough solid evidence of her role in the conspiracy to obstruct Congress’s proceedings. ”

        I so want this whole scenario you lay out to come true that I almost cried from a mix of joy and longing while reading it. Thanks for helping keep hope alive.

        At the same time, I have to remind myself of what I think people here have pointed out more than once – we can’t prosecute our way to a rescued democracy.

    • timbo says:

      Who would that be at the moment? Anyone specific in mind who might act out? Seems to me that a lot of these “leader-types” aren’t so much interested in being on the ground in the forefront of actions, just more on ginning up “grunts” to do their dirty work. If most of the grunts have been rolled up or are on the run then there ain’t going to be much action from “hard core types” unless there are significantly more of them about. What evidence do you personally have that this is true?

  9. Retired guy says:

    Interesting new allegations about actions of the NC OK group, that Caldwell repeatedly mentioned. If I recall, there are not a bunch of NC OKs arrested or indicted. Since the new indictment also mentions multiple QRFs, it suggests that the NC guys may have been a bigger QRF, than the one we know about, which was more a weapons cache than a force. Several indicted OKs speak of a robust, ready QRF capability.

    Speculation: the NC OK Quick Reaction Force never took the field (waiting for a call that never came) but were likely identified by investigators around the time of Caldwell’s arrest. A few of them might have spoken to the FBI months ago.

    • Leoghann says:

      The North Carolina Oath Keepers were identified as the group that had committed to be the QRF. Their leader, Doug Smith, claimed on the 7th or 8th that they took a bus to DC, and to the rally on the Ellipse. After what Trump said, they got back in the bus, intending to go to the Capitol to hear the rest of the speeches. They heard explosions and saw that things had gotten violent. “It became pretty obvious even at that distance that this was something else. We stood and watched…and I said, ‘This is it, we ain’t going no further,’ . . .” and they turned the bus around and went home. Within a couple of months, Smith disbanded the North Carolina Oath Keepers.

      From the beginning, this has seemed to me like a bunch of hokum. I strongly suspect that Smith realized, after there were no calls for the QRF, and his side obviously didn’t capture the Capitol or any congressmen, and there was a bunch of very bad press for the people who stormed the Capitol, that it would be best to not be connected to the entire affair. I think his “turned around and went home” story is a gigantic CYA move.

      Here’s a local follow-up story about him:

  10. greenbird says:

    (also see comment in ‘The Structure’ post …)
    (re Swalwell)

    Case 1:21-cv-03267 DC.v.PROUD BOYS
    related to Case Nos. = Cause: 48:1985 Conspiracy/Deprivation Civil Rights

    1:21-cv-00400 Thompson v Trump* = Cause: 28:1331 Federal Question: Other Civil Rights
    1:21-cv-00586 Swalwell v Trump = Cause: 48:1985 Conspiracy/Deprivation Civil Rights
    1:21-cv-00858 Blassingame v Trump* = Cause: 28:1332 Diversity-Personal Injury
    1:21-cv-02265 Smith v Trump = Cause: 48:1985 Conspiracy/Deprivation Civil Rights
    (Rhee, Jeannie) (Entered: 12/14/2021)

  11. Makaroon says:

    Just wanted to thank you all. I’ve been following this site for some time now and I feel smarter as a result. (I suppose it’s just better-informed but it feels like smarter.) Please excuse the name, I can’t remember what handle I previously used.

  12. Molly Pitcher says:

    So very happy to see these charges. And I just found the good laugh that I have been needing for a while. According to the NYT:

    “That evening [Jan 6], prosecutors said, Mr. Rhodes, Mr. Vallejo and other Oath Keepers met at an Olive Garden restaurant in Vienna, Va., to “celebrate their attack on the Capitol and discuss next steps.” “.

    • Rita says:

      Were they celebrating the fact that they had attacked the Capitol or or that they had achieved some other objective by attacking the Capitol?

      They certainly had amassed a lot of weaponry that went unused. It seems like their plans changed.

      • Troutwaxer says:

        This is pure speculation, but why did they need (or think they needed) a Quick Reaction Force, and what happened to make them call the QRF off. At some point somebody gets a signal, and the signal says (essentially,) “You will not be needed. Go home.”

        Look at this in light of the plan/expectation, which is that there will be a bunch of outraged Qanon types lined up against BLM + Antifa counter-protesters AND this would need to be dealt with somehow. What’s the point of a bunch of guys with guns? Is it possible that the QRF wasn’t needed because BLM/Antifa failed to show up?

        I don’t want to speculate to the point of a Tucker Carlsonish “I’m just asking the question,” but I think this particular loose end needs to be tied off.

        • Troutwaxer says:

          With that question in mind, I just read this on the “Structure of the January 6 Assault” thread. It’s Proud Boys rather than Oaf Keepers, but who are these commie traitor normicons they’re talking about here? What are they expecting the commie traitor normicons to do? It definitely goes to the expectations… This is the quote from “U.S. v. Charles Donohoe 21-CR-175-4 (TJK)”

          UCC-1: I want to see thousands of normies burn that city to ash today

          PERSON-2: Would be epic

          UCC-1: The state is the enemy of the people

          PERSON-2: We are the people

          UCC-1: Fuck yea

          PERSON-3: God let it happen . . . I will settle with seeing them smash some pigs to dust

          PERSON-2: Fuck these commie traitors

          PERSON-3 It’s going to happen. These normiecons have no adrenaline control . . . They are like a pack of wild dogs

        • P J Evans says:

          “no adrenaline control” – from the guys who are eager to burn the country down because they can’t get their own way.

        • Rayne says:

          Normies are all the invitees/rally attendees who aren’t in militia, the folks who were eagerly smashing property and police to get in. Sheep to militia sheep dogs.

        • harpie says:


          [Fourth Superseding Indictment] adds a comment Stewart Rhodes made on November 9 laying out what I’ll call the “Antifa foil” — an affirmative plan, laid out months before the insurrection, to use the “threat” of Antifa as the excuse to come armed and a means to foment violence.

          From the Fourth Superseding Indictment:
          […] PERSON ONE continued, “I do want some Oath Keepers to stay on the outside, and to stay fully armed and prepared to go in armed, if they have to . . . . So our posture’s gonna be that we’re posted outside of DC, um, awaiting the President’s orders. . . . We hope he will give us the orders. We want him to declare an insurrection, and to call us up as the militia.”

          WATKINS, KELLY MEGGS, HARRELSON, HACKETT, PERSON THREE, PERSON TEN [SIMMONS], and others known and unknown attended this GoToMeeting.

          After PERSON ONE finished speaking, WATKINS and KELLY MEGGS asked questions and made comments about what types of weapons were legal in the District of Columbia. […]
          [END BLOCKQUOTE]

        • skua says:

          If an OathK general, I’d have sent a QRF in when Trump declared martial law and the NG were still absent. The QRF would’ve carried out 45’s wishes/commands, “protected his people” and demonstrated that 45 had armed control of the Capitol site.

        • Leoghann says:

          I think that, by the time the insurrectionists realized they weren’t going to get any human prizes, or a white flag by the Capitol Police, they also realized that many, many more reinforcements were arriving.

  13. Leoghann says:

    As they continue to investigate and charge members of this Oath Keepers conspiracy, there’s a connection I find interesting, that might not be noticeable to people who aren’t familiar with the area.

    Stewart Rhodes is a resident of Granbury, Texas, which is SW of Fort Worth. He’s got quite a reputation there. But he was arrested this morning in Little Elm, Texas, 85-90 miles (2-3 hours) from Granbury, and the agents appeared to know right where to find him. Upstate New Yorker OK Robert Minuta, who had/has a couple of businesses there, claims to be a resident of Prosper, Texas, which is a bitch of a commute to Newburgh, NY.

    There is a very active chapter of Oath Keepers based in Frisco, Texas. All these are little farm towns that have become northern bedroom communities to Dallas. They’re all within a few miles of one another in what’s known as the US 380 corridor between Denton and McKinney, Texas. As I’ve continued to read about Oath Keepers in North Texas, I’ve noticed those and a few other towns in the corridor come up repeatedly. With that chapter being in Frisco, I can’t help but think there’s an organizational core in that area.

      • Rayne says:

        That’s super interesting. Little Elm, Frisco, and Prosper TX are rather close.

        1 – Rhodes’ home address
        2 – Location of Rhodes’ arrest
        3 – Minuta’s alternate address
        4 – Frisco church

        • WilliamOckham says:

          I grew up in Collin County. In 1970, I was 10 and the company county population was less than 70,000. In 2020, the population was over 1 million. Needless to say, Frisco, Little Elm, and Prosper are nothing like I remember. Sorry, just a little trip down memory lane.

        • Leoghann says:

          I was in that area 1990-2015. These days, most of Little Elm is up around 380. The old part of town, in the south, is hard to access. That location where Rhodes was staying-visiting-hiding out, by the headwaters of the lake, is pretty tony.

          US 380 is the dividing line between Frisco and Prosper, with Little Elm sharing its east border with both other towns. When William Ockham was there, US 380 was a two lane, rural highway, and the beautiful Trinity Valley hadn’t been flooded for Lake Ray Roberts.

        • WilliamOckham says:

          I have a brother who has lived in Allen, about 10 miles north of Frisco since the ’70’s (with the except of a few years away for work).

    • Eureka says:

      Strike “Upstate” — Minuta’s not an upstate NYer and Newburgh (the location of his tattoo parlor where Rhodes granted him the lifetime OK membership at a defiant reopening event) is very much Downstate (keep it in mind for at times cheaper/better flights than JFK or LaGuardia). Upon his arrest he was described as a resident of Hackettstown, NJ. The geography matters here (too) because of NY metro- North Jersey militia, anti-masker, and white nationalist groups mixing at local events and the Capitol, so may come up in some other 1/6 cases (though the South Jersey contingents of those type of folks are more numerous IIRC amongst arrestees/sightees to date).

      • Leoghann says:

        Thanks for the info. I know a lot about Texas, but very little about New York state, except the area around Woodstock, where I have a close friend.

        • Eureka says:

          The funny thing is NYers are very particular about upstate-downstate distinctions (so many reasons…and even more ridiculous “boundary” demarcations such that it’s a running joke) but this was one of the few instances where it wasn’t a close call [that is, perhaps, until Westchester* County enters the chat]. NY has named regions (don’t get me started) and Newburgh and Woodstock are both in the “Hudson Valley” region, the chunk of counties in the triangle/point above LI and NYC (Westchester Co. is in the lowest part of that chunk hence one joke about upstate NY being everything north of that county). I have seen people refer to Woodstock (in NYC-rooted press of the 1969 event which took place elsewhere) as “upstate” so there’s that (I wonder how your friend defines their place).

          Different topic, I just recalled I saw a headline after our convo the other day about FB and twitter admitting that they let marketers access the phone numbers people use to authenticate their accounts (in re another source for mystery magabot texts/emails). Fast Company teaser was “and here is how to avoid that” which I never clicked but guess involves using a throwaway/distinct email or some deep setting…

          *LOL, spellchecker rejects “Westchester”!

  14. BobCon says:

    “In addition, this indictment confirms that Kelly Meggs hunted Nancy Pelosi down (and that the rest of the stack went towards the Senate, as if hunting for Pence).”

    This bit reminds me how off kilter Michael Schmidt’s article a couple of days ago was, which breathlessly argued Pence’s testimony might be critical to criminal charges, how his looming refusal might be damaging to the case, etc.

    First, it missed the issue of Pelosi, and it also failed to understand that any refusal by Pence to testify wouldn’t change the evidence DOJ has otherwise showing the plan to obstruct.

    Schmidt was obviously helping someone trying to misdirect understanding of the case, and you have to wonder if that person knew this indictment was looming and tried to launch a preemptive spin job..

    Schmidt got spun, badly, or else failed miserably to present reporting to back up why he thought Pence was so critical. A good editor would force a major reevaluation by Schmidt of his source ecosystem and what he thinks is going on, but the political desk at the Times is rudderless.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      Yes, the notion that Pence’s testimony was make-or-break for the Committee was rubbish. No credible investigation of an event of this magnitude could rise or fall on the testimony of a single witness. That Schmidt – and his editors – argued that it would suggests the NYT remains committed to avoiding the elite’s great fear, articulated by Samuel Huntington in the immediate aftermath of Nixon’s resignation, following sustained investigations by Congress, the NYT and the WaPo: an “excess of democracy.”

      • BobCon says:

        I think it reflects how badly the Times and a lot of the DC press corps has been captured by a closed loop of right wing talkers and sources.

        They run to “respectable” GOP pundits for the framing, the framing leads to obvious sources who confirm the framing, and surprise! the published piece helps cement the framing in what is considered common knowledge that drives future reporting.

        Since January 7 the GOP pundits have been working to frame 1/6 as a bunch of fringe actors (outside of the GOP mainstream, natch) who got out of control, driven by a president who was moody and erratic but not planning in any coherent way.

        Their narrative was people like Meadows were making a good faith effort to rein him in, and the Giuliani clown show was evidence that none of it was serious.

        This narrative is cracking, and I think it’s possible that Schmidt’s Pence piece was an effort to define where their next stand will be — yes, maybe the case is serious, but where’s the proof? they will ask.

        And they will use the refusal to testify of people like Jordan and Meadows to bolster the claim that there is no proof, when the opposite conclusion should be getting a lot more run that these people are deeply worried about all of the evidence that exists.

        • Rayne says:

          In hindsight, that Anonymous (Miles Taylor) op-ed which NYT ran also served to shape a narrative that person(s) inside the White House were acting in good faith. Even if he genuinely believed he was acting in good faith, the op-ed’s publication may have done more damage by bolstering an illusion.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          The NYT exhibits its negative learning curve – and gives undeserved cover to Republicans and so-called centrist Dems – by selling the talking point that the Trump WH ever acted in good faith, conduct Trump has abhorred since childhood.

        • Eureka says:

          La plus ca change … NYT did a pretty horrible job with the early 20th century extremists into WWII, too.

  15. Tom says:

    Perhaps this point has already been covered and I’ve just missed it, but I’ve been wondering why Trump didn’t join the march on the Capitol on January 6th after telling his mob that he’d be there with them. Perhaps his plan was just to have his supporters THINK that he was going to be there. Thus, when Alex Jones later told the mob at the Capitol to gather ’round the East Doors because Trump was going to give another speech, they’d be more likely to believe him. It also suggests close planning and co-ordination between Trump and Jones, unless I’m stretching the facts farther than they’ll reach.

    • Peterr says:

      Could be.

      I lean more toward Trump saying “Let’s you and him have a fight.” Also marching down to the the Capitol is work, after all, and the Official White House Golf Cart was perhaps not available.

    • pdaly says:

      Agree with the above. Speaking to “close planning,” Trump was very specific about the people marching down Pennsylvania Avenue, to the point of taking time to praise Pennsylvania Avenue. From the Ellipse, however, marching along Constitution Avenue or even the wide-open grassy National Mall (both south of Pennsylvania Avenue) could have deposited the crowd at the Capitol, too.

      Granted, a crowd walking down Pennsylvania Avenue towards the Capitol would push past the Willard Hotel, Freedom Plaza, and Trump Hotel–making it easy for any interlopers at those sites to join in.

      • MB says:

        …or maybe the interloper-masters had arranged for a surreptitious “parade review” for their own edification…

    • Leoghann says:

      I agree–it’s pretty clear that Trump and Jones were working that together. “I’ll get them fired up and ready to go, and then hand them off to you. You know what to do.”

      Thus I don’t believe the orange guy had any intention whatsoever of going to the Capitol. He had his ride waiting, with the engine running. And besides all the other reasons put forth above, he’s a coward.

      • Rita says:

        Trump would have had to have his Secret Service detail with him as well. I read somewhere a while back that he knew the logistics for such a march were difficult. So he had no intention of walking with the crowd.

        • P J Evans says:

          We know he won’t walk more than a couple of hundred yards. More than a quarter mile, and he requires a vehicle of some kind.

      • BobCon says:

        Trump outside the Capitol would have kept people away from where he wanted them — inside.

        He wanted a buzzing, milling crowd wondering what would happen next, ready for the spark that Stone’s troops would supply.

    • timbo says:

      I thought the WH (or reporters on the ground at the Ellipse?) claimed at the time that the Secret Service said it was unsafe and that Trump should return to the White House.

      • Dopey-o says:

        IMO, Trump wasn’t physically able to march to the Capitol, and never intended to. Trump wanted to be inside the Oval Office, close to phones and cameras when he declared his National Security Emergency, which in his mind would allow him to close down the certification.

        Had Trump been at the chaos at the Capitol, he would have missed his best shot at holding onto power.

  16. Hopeful says:

    Maybe OT;

    I worked for a Japanese company for some time. The term “the big wheel keeps turning” comes to mind.

    Seemingly, DOJ moves at the pace of the Big Wheel (I’m listening to “The Wheel” by Jerry Garcia); and would make those who did wrong wonder when it will be their turn to face justice. And I hope they will get their turn.

    “If the thunder don’t get you, then the lightening will”.

    It’s early, I am Hopeful justice is achieved but ……..we still need a viable multi party system.

  17. TooLoose LeTruck says:

    What an epic article and what epic comment thread…

    I saw a head line on my phone about ‘seditious conspiracy charges’ early in the morning (PST) and my heart skipped a beat… and I knew I’d find a terrific dissection and discussion about this here at EW…

    And I was not disappointed…

    Thank you all!

  18. Rapier says:

    The morning after, nothing about this appears in the NY Times online edition at 7AM. Which is pretty freaking weird.

    • BobCon says:

      They have an article up now which bizarrely tries to characterize the Oath Keepers as variously “antigovernment” and “deep state” conspiracists rather than that they were a deeply partisan group explicitly fighting the Democrats. And it’s pretty clearly bending over backwards to avoid any kind of larger context or analysis.

      It’s a weirdly written article that almost reads like a coded message, which in a sense it is — it parallels a lot of official Washingtonese which is designed to trigger certain people with specific phrases while leaving others hearing nothing but noise. It’s Kremlinspeak.

      • FL Resister says:

        With my own eyes, I cannot find the words “seditious conspiracy” on the front page of today’s on-line edition of The New York Times.
        Nor do I see any commentary on it.
        Maybe waiting for the Sunday edition to do a big spread.

  19. Al Ostello says:

    I assume separation of powers means the DOJ and the committee cannot share information directly, but each can communicate current evidence via public docs such as criminal referrals and indictments. Or, can they legally share evidence the public has yet to see? Thank you in advance.

    • BobCon says:

      Congressional investigators and the feds regularly work together. There are a number of legal and procedural limits to evidence sharing, but there is no blanket separation of powers issue.

      This gives a glimpse of how they’re working, but I have a sense a lot of sensitive info sharing outside of what is being reported here.

    • timbo says:

      The separation of powers doctrine(s) do not prohibit sharing of information between different branches of the US Federal. In this case, Congress can do whatever it wants as long as it’s legally accepted by the Judicial branch if/when challenged by someone/an agency with standing. Congress regularly has, for the past 50 years or so, generally tried to not interfere with DOJ investigations and prosecutions if possible. Thus, the cooperation (or lack thereof) is more about protecting ongoing criminal investigations undertaken by the DOJ/FBI if possible from being tainted by Congressional interference. This if fall out from the limited immunity offered by Congress during the Watergate investigations. Or, rather, IMO anyways, it’s a more and more frequent excuse for Congress to become incurious into certain criminal matters that have political components mainly ever since Watergate.

  20. Savage Librarian says:

    Since he was mentioned in a few comments above, I wonder what Pence would say about this:

    “Billionaires Funding the Coup’s Brain Trust” – Andy Kroll, 1/12/22

    “Conservative mega-donors including the DeVoses and Bradleys are pumping big money into the Claremont Institute think tank that fueled Trump’s election-fraud fantasies”

  21. skua says:

    greenbird has posted link to Edward Vallejo’s fulfilled arrest document in the “flourishes” article comments.
    (Probably better to discuss there.)

    Looks like DOJ is winding in the medium sized, and probably well connected, fish.

    Some, who see this timing as Deep State directed and who planned J6, may look at the 11 months till the midterms, wonder what DOJ will do in that time and take an anti-anxiety pill. And/or consider flipping.

  22. harpie says:

    OH MY! Remember that $40,000 worth of GUNS etc RHODES bought??
    THAT‘s how the FBI located him.

    4:02 PM · Jan 14, 2022

    How the FBI located #Oathkeepers head Stewart Rhodes to arrest him for seditious conspiracy. Rhodes was living in Granbury, Texas, but quietly moved out months ago, opened a PO Box, and his physical whereabouts were unclear for weeks. Until he started selling his guns online…/1 [THREAD]

    That thread might have been broken, so I think this will work to get the rest of it:

    • harpie says:

      […] Then, on Dec 15, 2021 Rhodes began selling some of this same weapons equipment on a TX online gun trading site using his phone #, & said he lived in prosper, TX. He was staying at a home owned by arrested co-conspirator Roberto Minuto…/6

      But the TX gun trading site allows one to ID the IP address of the gun seller, which came back to a home in the small town of Little Elm, TX

      The home that was raided and where Rhodes was arrested in Little Elm, TX is owned by Chad Rogers, a licensed Private investigator in TX who owns a company called Blackrock Intelligence Agency LLC

      • WilliamOckham says:

        I don’t know if you saw my other comment. I believe I have identified the creator of the fake electoral college vote certifications based on the info you posted about the Amistad Project. So, thanks for that. I’ll put together the info on who I believe was behind the fake documents this weekend.

        • Leoghann says:

          The woman who headed the group in charge of the project in Arizona, characterized as a sovereign citizen group, and who organized getting the signatures on the fake letter, said Rudy Fruitcake brought it to her in person.

          [I believe I got that from an Arizona Republic article on the day the story broke.]

  23. Leoghann says:

    And the day after Stewart Rhodes is jailed in Texas, Henry Tarrio is released, 30 days early, in DC.

  24. Fran of the North says:

    While interviewing Thomas Caldwell, Tucker C. is defending him as a disabled veteran who got caught up in the day’s events. He’s only being prosecuted because he belongs to the OK’s.

    Alrighty then!

  25. Leoghann says:

    Early yesterday afternoon, the Austin American-Statesman reported that the judge in Texas who’s been hearing one of the Sandy Hook cases hit Alex Jones with even more sanctions. Apparently Jones is continuing not to comply with court orders. The A-S has the article behind a paywall, and I don’t subscribe. The above is all I could glean in a quick look at the first few lines, and I can’t find a reference anywhere else. But he may be in a serious financial crunch when he needs it to fight federal charges for being MAGA Pied Piper.

  26. PaulKa says:

    WRT to Caldwell’s charges and I am sure that EmptyWheel is aware of this:

    While inside the Capitol, Caldwell allegedly received Facebook messages telling him to “seal” in lawmakers in the tunnels under the Capitol and to “turn on gas.”

    that is from 1/19/21 so clearly someone in law enforcement shared with ABC information they had on hand with regards to the threats posed by the Oathkeepers. I guess I am not surprised to see that language in the indictment, but it goes a long way to showing the danger posed by the OK and I would imagine would be a life in prison sort of terrorism charge.

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