House January 6 Committee: Public Hearings – Day 2 [UPDATE-1]
This post and comment thread are dedicated to the House January 6 Committee hearings scheduled to continue today June 13, 2022 at 10:30 a.m. ET.
Please take all comments unrelated to the hearings to a different thread. Updates will appear at the bottom of this post.
This week’s hearings are expected to tackle these topics:
Monday, June 13 – Trump’s Big Lie
Wednesday, June 15 – The Department of Justice’s role
Thursday, June 16 – Campaign to pressure Mike Pence into breaking election law
The hearings will stream on:
House J6 Committee’s website: https://january6th.house.gov/news/watch-live
House J6 Committee’s YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ0yNe3cFx4
C-SPAN’s House J6 hearing page: https://www.c-span.org/video/?520282-1/open-testimony-january-6-committee
C-SPAN’s YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/c/C-SPAN/featured
Check PBS for your local affiliate’s stream: https://www.pbs.org/ (see upper right corner)
Twitter is carrying multiple live streams (NBC, PBS, Washington Post, Reuters, CSPAN, Bloomberg): https://twitter.com/i/events/1536343313325821952
MSNBC will carry coverage on their cable network; special coverage has already begun with their Morning Joe program on https://www.msnbc.com/live.
ABC, NBC, CBS will carry the hearings live on broadcast and CNN will carry on its cable network.
Twitter accounts live tweeting today’s hearing (subject to change):
Marcy’s thread: https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1536361021564243971
Brandi Buchman-DailyKos: https://twitter.com/Brandi_Buchman/status/1536285741088751616
Scott MacFarlane-CBS: https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1536348494931406850
Jennifer Taub: https://twitter.com/jentaub/status/1536343525398224897
Laura Rozen: https://twitter.com/lrozen/status/1536361217450725376
JustSecurity’s team live tweeting: https://twitter.com/just_security/status/1536338931104550913 (check their feed, they don’t live tweet as frequently or thoroughly as others)
Check also these Twitter accounts for coverage (no live tweet thread established yet):
Jordan Fischer: https://twitter.com/JordanOnRecord
Aaron Rupar: https://twitter.com/atrupar
If you know of any other credible source tweeting the coverage, please share a link in comments.
The original agenda for this hearing:
The Jan. 6 Committee witness list was just announced for 10AM tomorrow:
• Bill Stepien, Ex-Trump Campaign Manager
• Chris Stirewalt, Ex-Fox Political Editor
• BJay Pak, Ex-U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia
• Al Schmidt, Ex-City Commissioner of Philadelphia— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) June 12, 2022
Shortly after 9:00 a.m. this morning the agenda and hearing timing was changed to reflect Stepien’s omission from the witness lineup due to a family emergency. The hearing’s start time was pushed back a half-hour to 10:30 a.m.; Stepien’s attorney is expected to make a statement.
~ ~ ~
Any updates will appear at the bottom of this post; please bear with any content burps as this page may be edited as the hearing progresses.
Again, this post is dedicated to the House January 6 Committee and topics addressed in testimony and evidence produced during the hearing.
All other discussion should be in threads under the appropriate post with open discussion under the most recent Trash Talk.
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ADDER — 10:02 A.M. ET —
Not really an update since the hearing hasn’t started. The Senate Jucidiary Committee Dems have posted a Twitter thread about former US Attorney BJay Pak’s testimony before their committee regarding the demands made to investigate “irregularities” in Atlanta’s 2020 handling of ballots and vote counting.
THIS MORNING 🚨 former U.S. Attorney BJay Pak testifies in the #January6thCommitteeHearings.
This Committee was the first to interview Pak in Summer 2021 about the Big Lie and false claims of election fraud in Georgia.
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW before today’s hearing ➡️
— Senate Judiciary Committee (@JudiciaryDems) June 13, 2022
Excellent prep work to read before Pak’s testimony today.
~ ~ ~
UPDATE — 12:30 P.M. ET —
Ben Ginsberg, a Republican election law lawyer, has been added as a witness appearing in person before the committee along with the rest of the second panel (i.e., Pak and Schmidt after a 10-minute break).
WRT Stepien’s “family emergency,” the buzz is that his wife has gone into labor.
Somewhat tongue-in-cheek:
Conveniently induced? It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
No tongue-in-cheek here, please.
Having been induced, it would be irresponsible to handle a term pregnancy that way unless there were complications. I’d never risk an induction unless past term and labor had stopped or wasn’t progressing.
I think the committee is using recorded testimony quite ably in the absence of Stepien. He may yet be able to avoid appearing in person.
Lol, it is pathetic.
The hearings are very important.
You are a pathetic curmudgeon with all your pathetic negativity.
Ban me if you will… or better yet, attack me with one of your bitter comebacks.
Thanks for your continued support! This “hearing” format is still garbage.
Lucian agrees with you, bmaz
https://luciantruscott.(dot) substack.com/p/where-the-hell-was-bill-barr?s=r
I think highly of Lucian, but we don’t live in 1974 nor do we live in 1950. We live in a time when scandal upon scandal during one administration failed to move the Senate to convict a twice-impeached POTUS for repeated abuses of power though we had traditional congressional hearings in both houses of Congress.
The likes of Trump as well as Jim Jordan, Matt Gaetz, Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene can be elected and re-elected because media is wholly different than it was in 1974 when I was a teenager. Their obnoxiousness has been both-sidesed to be seen as legitimate, whether the blind-to-sexual-abuses like Jordan, human trafficking like Gaetz, loose with campaign finance like Boebert, or outrageously and obnoxiously bigoted like MTG. If media today assured they’d be electable, it won’t provide the “moments of majesty and drama that attach to a really good hearing on Capitol Hill” which Lucian feels certain will come from traditional hearings related to one of the largest investigations ever undertaken by the House and the DOJ.
The entirety of US politics is different from 1974 when a POTUS would still be smart enough to resign rather than embarrass himself and his party by being impeached and convicted.
If anything the Democratic Party’s congressional caucus hasn’t moved fast enough into the future; they are still the same party Teddy Kennedy represented in 1980 yet they need to compete against criminals enabled by massive data theft by Cambridge Analytica, microtargeted across Facebook, repeatedly refined by swaths of corporate-collected and unlawfully-collected data to ensure the persons who might be moved by glacially-paced hearings will never opt to watch them because they’ve been brainwashed to believe it’s crap like vaccines and wearing masks.
I think this is one of those issues which points to a generational shift between someone like bmaz who is less than a handful of years older than me and a Boomer, and me who is a vanguard Gen X. At some point we need to acknowledge “the moving finger writes; and, having writ, moves on…” leaving us in a much changed world.
ADDER: Fuck me. I wrote a post, didn’t I. ~sigh~
I think Lucian was making the point that bmaz was making, i.e. that a traditional hearing would be good and a media-driven hearing is bad.
I didn’t want to ask bmaz for clarification since he seemed to be a bit testy (though it’s almost always hard to tell!) 😄
And as I noted, we’ve had traditional hearings which failed to achieve constructive outcomes.
You know what else we didn’t have in 1950 or 1974? Rapid polling to check public opinion just before, during, and immediately after a hearing. That too shapes the conduct of a series of hearings.
Nor did we have +1000 witnesses, thousands of hours of video and terabytes of electronic communications to be distilled in order to present them to witnesses to achieve an outcome.
When a traditional hearing would be good given all these other parameters: if Trump were willing to get on the stand for the very last hearing of the series. But that’s not going to happen.
Oh, hell yes, these pissant infomercials are just SOOOO powerful. Just another joke from the Democratic House.
Okay, boomer.
That is a detestable response. Not everybody thinks this infomercial bullshit is all that. It is the same old lame House Dem song and dance, my friend. But, of course Pelosi would never permit anything but truncated garbage that is useless for the purpose intended. It is literally her relentless MO. It is a joke.
Hey boo, you’ve been having one long temper tantrum since June 9 about the hearings’ format which isn’t at all demoralizing or setting a bad example for the community.
It is still garbage. The truth counts. There is nothing more compelling in these infomercials that there ever was in Failed Impeachment 1 and Failed Impeachment 2. This all the Dems have to offer though.
So what sort of compelling format would you have chosen?
Actual hearings where evidence, both documentary and testimonial, is given foundation and admissibility through live witnesses and examination of them. As opposed to slickly edited two hour infomercials that require so much selective editing that the Committee can not even stay on schedule with it because the editing is so complicated. And allow as much time as it takes naturally instead of limiting it to a mandated minimal number of hours.
These hearings are important — if only for the historic record. Although we don’t know how or if the information will be used, at the very least the public will have a sense of the timeline of the events of Jan 6. I think the J6 committee is doing a very good job of creating a timeline and telling the story, which will help people understand better the motivations of the various enablers of the insurrection.
Induced labor is still labor (with all of its attendant risks) but worse, since one is hooked up to the IV for the oxytocin and a fetal monitor. That means no walking around. Both of my kids were induced, and as it happened the oxy kicked in with a wham. Not good for my beloved.
As I indicated, I’ve had induced labor. It’s not easy or fun or something one can schedule and obtain a result in a guaranteed X number of hours/minutes. It’s utterly laughable to think this route inflicted on a mother+infant would be a spiffy method for a father to avoid a testifying.
Back to the topic, please.
I think these will cover:
Jordan Fischer: https://twitter.com/JordanOnRecord
Aaron Rupar: https://twitter.com/atrupar
Great news with that adder!
Thanks for the links, harpie!
I saw this list and while I would prefer to see Stepien in the hot seat today, we’ll see what his lawyer says. Is it a statement still under oath? EW noted that Ben Ginsberg might be our most interesting witness, but for me I want to hear from BJay Pak, especially if he’s gotten more angry. Remember Pak was the USA in GA that was ‘cut loose’ when he refused to pretend that there was rampant voter fraud and ‘resigned’ which later became a quiet admission that he had been fired. This was all part of the 11,800 votes plan that was thankfully recorded leading to a lot of our current discussion. Maybe we’ll get a final answer along with the synopsis of how we got there.
If you get a chance, look at the twitter thread link RAYNE put in her adder.
In a word, yowza.
I suspect the 30 minute delay is an attempts to get Stepien’s previous interviews done under oath ready to show with the statement.
No. Pay attention and don’t drop speculation in here.
ADDER: Do NOT drop crap in this thread like your passive-aggressive commentary. You have no cred with us based on your handful of comments to date.
Have you ever considered acting like you want everyone else to act?
Was that too passive, or too direct?
All this drama for a comment that was more a statement of the obvious than speculation. But hey, I’m sure moderating the forum by treating folks like a douche day after day really gives you lots of time to flex that righteous indignation. Well done.
You just made the forum one tiny bit better for yourself.
[Oh my. Let me liberate you from this oppressive moderation, about which you and all other commenters here were warned with regard to this dedicated thread. Have a nice life. / ~Rayne]
Eh, that is not an advisable position, don’t do that. We work our asses off here, and very much do not need condescension from an eight time commenter nubie.
https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1536336953599221768
9:17 AM · Jun 13, 2022
re: MEADOWS
https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1536341350441959424
9:40 AM · Jun 13, 2022
I don’t think it’s worth flipping someone so high up in the chain.
I mean, what, he negotiates down from execution?
Way too soon to speculate about Meadows, of whom it was reported that there are first hand witnesses to document destruction. But, if Meadows flips I really can’t see him getting a free skate from DoJ (though he’ll push for it) and the MAGA cult will be enraged about the cooperation with all the consequences that arise.
Meadows was the guy who briefed the boss and then watched the boss nod. Getting him would finish off Individual-1 IMHO. I’d say it’s a 50-50 chance at best.
Yeah, I just don’t see an upside for him.
While Trump appears to be the head of the snake, he’s really no more relevant to the plot than he was to the success of The Apprentice. I don’t want to give the brains behind the insurrection a free pass, or even a lesser sentence, because they helped jail the ceremonial head of the coup.
Are you really arguing that the primary beneficiary of the insurrection was irrelevant to the insurrection?!?
I can’t help think Meadows needs to *look* as if he’s being forced to dump on Trump in order to protect his butt from the Trump mob. He’s released some documents as subpoenaed; why wouldn’t he have resisted releasing them just as he’s resisting testimony?
I don’t think he realized just how hard TrumpWorld would come down on him until after his initial documents were released and they went nuts.
Meadows would be familiar with such a limited hangout plan, and I think you are correct that this was his idea. However, there is no deviation from MAGA orthodoxy allowed. Look at what happened with Mo Brooks being replaced in AL for the affections of MAGA. It is the Dantean gate of hell statement: Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here [to Trumpworld].
Functionally I would suspect that in connection with the hearings (if the Ds keep the attack well-linked to all GQP members) that the otherwise expected electoral bloodbath will not happen.
Et tu, Faux?
https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/media/3521405-fox-news-airs-live-coverage-of-former-top-editors-testimony-to-jan-6-panel/
In case there’s anyone here who doesn’t know about this:
https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/the-third-rail/623e14ae6c90860020524615/ginni-thomas-clarence-supreme-court-election/
But the Ginni Thomas texts were not the most alarming aspect of Woodward and Costa’s story. There was a text in the chain that disturbed me more than anything Ginni Thomas wrote. It came from Meadows, and here’s what it said:
This is a fight of good versus evil . . . Evil always looks like the victor until the King of Kings triumphs. Do not grow weary in well doing. The fight continues. I have staked my career on it. Well at least my time in DC on it.
This is the first time I can remember getting up at 0630 to watch television since I was 6. I was surprised to discover Arizona PBS is running their usual morning cartoons. I’ve substituted CBS, just because of Scott MacFarlane.
MacFarlane is NBC’s biggest lost; he’s going to be the saving of long-stagnant CBS. His coverage of the January 6 perps while he was with the NBC local affiliate was always snappy, concise, authentic, and so lean on production — just him and a cellphone. I just hope CBS doesn’t pull him off onto too much other non-Jan 6 coverage or weight him down with too much production.
Lol.
[You have the conn for 30 min – I have to finish a chore. Thanks. /~Rayne]
I channel surf to watch commentary during the break(s) and briefly afterwards.
Having Chris Wallace doing commentary on CNN is quite the burn for Fox.
Ugh. NPR streaming is disappointing. The “passing time” broadcast of “what if thinking” instead of “thinking” is irresponsible.
I’m not a fan of speculation, in any area but real estate. But I’m pretty good at tuning out blather.
Andrea Mitchell just mentioned on Peacock that video of Stepien’s testimony will be used.
Cheney: “an apparently inebriated Rudy Guiliani”
And confirmed by various other witnesses video depositions.
I figured they would have “Rudy was drunk” testimony and they did.
He didn’t look very sharp in that short video clip.
https://twitter.com/emptywheel
10:53 AM Marcy: “Far flung conspiracies with a deceased Venezuelan communist pulling the strings.”
The big lie was also a big ripoff- Loefgren
Now that was a great line by Lofgren. Also true.
I still think the gabby format of this “hearing” is garbage.
Wait, they are going to have a real witness?
Did you read the post?
*grin*
*ducking*
*heading for the corner*
This “hearing” is just pathetic. What a dog and pony shitshow.
Don’t be a wet blanket, please. (Even if it’s cooler.)
There is not one single person in this country that will be swayed by this garbage. It is beyond useless. The Committee would have been better served by issuing a comprehensive report. These are not “hearings”, and they are dumb beyond belief.
How is wallpapering this thread and your Twitter feed going to help matters in any way?
Telling the truth is always helpful.
Example to the contrary: “Oh, those pants make your ass look huge, honey.”
Come on. We get it, we heard your truth last week repeatedly these hearings aren’t being conducted to your preference. So it’s not about you, let it go.
Except it is lame shit with democracy in the lurch. It is pathetic garbage. Absolutely nobody will be swayed by this staged production. It is beyond useless.
Thanks, Rayne!
It doesn’t help at all when the resident lawyer keeps complaining because they’re not doing it *his* way.
The nice thing is that they can ALSO issue a comprehensive report – and I suspect they will.
There will be a report in early fall. And all depo transcripts released. I was looking forward to these comments; did not realize it would be a pointless pie fight.
Sorry to disappoint you. Neither the second, much less the first, impeachment was “flawless”. They were both artificially stunted bullshit that failed to use the actual impeachment authority to obtain and present facts and, instead, to ASAP rush back to regular legislative basis oversight instead of using the far higher impeachment basis.
Both among the biggest legislative failures ever. All due to Nancy Pelosi being concerned about protecting the bluest of blue dogs. Instead, she will have “masterminded” a soul crushing defeat for Dems in the midterms, and quite likely 2024 Presidential election. It is beyond pathetic.
And the current scripted and staged infomercials, which appear to be limited to a flat 14 hours, 2 hours a piece, are no different. If this is what the Dems have to offer, they deserve the slaughter they are going to receive in the midterms.
This is NOT a “pie fight”, it is the health and soul of democracy itself in the lurch, and far too many people are latching onto this fake hearing garbage as something that will save it. It will not. Time would be MUCH better expended registering voters and making sure they turn out. Because this little “Real Representatives of the Democratic Party” will never get the job done.
They are going to issue a comprehensive report.
Yes, sure. Based on the “hearings”.
A glass of water with a tsp of powdered neem leaf is a bitter addition to the day. But the sensation protects against flights of fancy and promotes awareness of the work to hand.
What an alibi, they must of started planning it 9 mos ago!
https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1536365107424505858
11:09 AM · Jun 13, 2022
Compare what Rudy said to the plot laid out by Gellman’s article in The Atlantic.
Stirewalt taking a well-deserved victory lap.
Stirewalt is like a Wall Street quant who got fired for correctly predicting his own company’s downturn.
I wish Stepien could have been there in-person today, but I’m impressed someone had already edited the relevant audio/video footage as a contingency plan.
Not really hard to arrange.
“I might not be there. My wife is due.”
“Thanks for letting us know. We can always use the video from your previous testimony. I’ll make sure it’s ready to go.”
I’m still impressed that they actually did it instead of just thinking about it.
I do not understand the underestimation people have. The second impeachment hearing was impeccable. Folks got fooled by always watching Repug nimrods. Dems are smart.
Watching C-Span live reading EW live. I think the police offers testimony will be particularly effective. Their voices have rarely been heard in such a coherent form. After all it all about the media and the narrative they present to their viewers. We need to dispel forever the notion that it was just a protest and not a coordinated attack.
BARR: Avalanche of allegations of fraud whack a mole
11:40 AM 11/23/20 MEADOWS CIPILLONE, TRUMP meeting at WH
11:44 AM TRUMP to BARR “You must have said this because you hate Trump. You hate Trump.”
In the newspapers at the time and in EVERY BOOK SINCE. At least ten.
Barr: ..as he was prone to do.
Stepien really seems not to have been in on the plot. Unlike Barr, who is trying to rehabilitate his reputation.
Barr’s reputation will still have to come to grips with the fact that while Barr can say he said all these things to Trump and his team back in November 2020, Barr said nothing to the public at all.
If Barr was truly seeking to uphold and defend the constitution, he might have mentioned to the public his advice to the president and his conclusions about the fairness of the election in something closer to real time.
At best, this was a CYA move from Barr. “Don’t lump me in with the conspirators.” But unless he can explain why he couldn’t say publicly what he told the J6 committee in a private deposition, he still fits the role of an enabler of insurrection. That may not be a criminal act, but he remains guilty of letting the big lie fester, grow, and spread.
Yes.
In this, he’s useful for getting the attention of the Fox viewers.
Barr said publicly in Dec. 2020 that there was no evidence of significant vote fraud.
If your measuring statements based on BMaz’s standard, their ability to change the minds of the insurrection-curious, few had a bigger impact than Barr. If that rally had 20,000 more people, they might have succeeded. Barr has much to answer for, but his statement about the integrity of the election was incredibly valuable at a very difficult time. Few other GOPs did as much.
Barr’s real message to Trump:
“You’re no longer useful. We’re done with you.”
I’ve been pondering the timing of Barr’s testimony — he waited until the week before the hearing. Was there finally a greenlight for him?
It looks like News Corp may have done so at one of their outlets.
Donald Trump, Democrats are obsessed with 2020 — GOP should look to the future
By Post Editorial Board | June 10, 2022 1:02pm | New York Post
https://nypost.com/2022/06/10/trump-and-dems-remain-obsessed-with-2020-republicans-should-look-to-the-future-instead/
Donald Trump needs a new tune — it’s time to move on from old grievances
By Michael Goodwin | June 11, 2022 9:48pm | New York Post
https://nypost.com/2022/06/11/donald-trump-needs-a-new-tune/
Wow wow wow…Trump referring to himself in third person to Barr. That’s so fucking creepy, like he’s aware he’s nothing more than an empty suit and a brand name.
Nixon began to do that toward the end.
way before that…after losing ’62 CA governor election was his most famous pre-Watergate line: “you won’t have Nixon to kick around any more”
We might be able to see a self-immolation induced by those superior genes brain waves (stop laughing and work with me here…) which I consider to be a real possibility when Individual-1 just referred to Bill Barr as a ‘Marxist’.
Well, the official spox did anyway. One of the interesting items was the attention paid to the ripoff of the contributors to the legal funds. This is not going to resonate at all with the Faux News hounds which were allowed to watch today on the network.
Wait, wait, wait…he WHAT?! I went offline for a bit and what?! I missed the bit where the former orange git called “Coverup-General Barr” a Marxist.
Oh, plausible deniability invoked by using a spokesperson.
Jesus, I gotta’ start day drinking. Tea isn’t cutting it.
These schmucks don’t know Karl Marx from Groucho Marx.
Though to be precise, Harrington did try for plausible deniability in saying Barr is only *shilling* for evil.
Hmmm…exactly as she could put forward for her own future defense.
Spokesweasel because she hasn’t been suspended by Twitter. Yet. (She should be, though, since all she does is post the former guy’s drivel.)
Re: Trump referring to himself in third person to Barr. He will always be “nothing more than an empty suit and a brand name” and a Rickey Henderson wannabe, the world’s champion of 3rd person usage. – (from Rickey’s wiki – Later on in his career, Rickey supposedly called the Padres GM and left the following voicemail: “Kevin, this is Rickey, calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball.)
TFG deflects from the pointed interpersonal discomfort—and uses this ‘other’ removing himself personally….to where “we’re talking here!” referring to an impersonal ‘Trump™’ the one getting criticized
You don’t buy the Trump™ brand anymore?
Addressing himself in the third person is just more proof that he wears a mask in public. “Trump” is just a character he plays to con the masses and launch grift after grift to fill his pockets.
He’s been doing it for so long I doubt even he can tell the difference anymore.
First post. I’ve been monitoring EW for quite awhile now and find the posters and postings interesting and intriguing. I’ve been alive a long time. I don’t want to poke the bear, but this hearing is very important in my view. The American public… ok, the sympathetic public, is hearing the words, under oath, from the various horses mouths that seem to me to document that TFG and close supporters knew exactly what he was doing throughout the campaign, the election, and January 6th. He’s a disrupter.
I’m hopeful that at the least the undecided voters will become aware that through these words, under oath, and pictures that this man must NEVER be allowed to run for office again and the only way to achieve that is for him and his party to be defeated at the polls decisively. I can only hope that conviction in a court of law occurs in the future but I’m not holding my breath.
11:54 AM NAVARRO called LYONS an “agent of the deep state working with KREBS against the President.”
I swear every time I see Navarro’s name I’m going to roll my eyes here on forward. I may sprain my eyes when he spouts about the “deep state.”
Navarro digs so deep on disinformation that he seems to project he’s in a deep state.
LOL Scott MacFarlane-CBS posted this in his timeline.
LOL! Like minds!
An incarnate Dunning-Kruger automaton.
“Detached from reality.” Almost as if Billy B. is laying groundwork for some kind of “temporary insanity” defense should The Rump be brought to trial. (Unlikely I know! And politically damaging in the extreme unless “involuntary intoxication” due to prescribed medications was invoked as the cause.) But it is striking to hear one of the acolytes raising the possibility that their messiah was non compos mentis.
Yeah, with Barr’s quote by Trump referring to himself in third person, it sure feels like attempted construction of an exit.
People I think of who refer to themselves in the third person: LeBron James, Bob Dole, Major Bagstock (fictional, in Dickens). Apparently it has a name: illeism. I think it’s an open question how pathological this is. The phenomenon definitely occurs more frequently among self-involved (not to say narcissistic) people, but according to research by Ethan Kross (a pretty good psychologist) it mainly serves a defensive function, reducing the stress induced by speaking of oneself when trying to solve problems/deal with situations. Which of course may be useful to narcissists! But also to other people. Of my three off-the-cuff examples, Joe Bagstock was definitely a personality disordered type, Bob Dole probably wasn’t, and I don’t really know much about LeBron James – some people seem convinced he’s a narcissist, others that he is just a fine, confident human being. As for The Rump, well, I think his niece settled any remaining question about his status.
IIRC Reggie Jackson pioneered the usage in the sports world.
“ People I think of who refer to themselves in the third person:”….don’t forget Gollum and Sméagol…
Herschel Walker is also big on referring to himself in the 3rd person, I learned in younger years in a trade that wont be mentioned.
Personally, We are going to start referring to Ourselves only in the 3rd-person plural.
They can do that all They want.
Rickey Henderson is the all-time world’s champion 3rd person user. Just one of his nuggets – Later on in his career, Rickey supposedly called the Padres GM and left the following voicemail: “Kevin, this is Rickey, calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball.”
Thank you for this new word. I had never encountered ‘illeism’ before. It should be helpful when teaching my students the pronoun ‘ille, illa, illud…’ Gaius Julius Caesar very frequently spoke of himself in the third person.
Hmmmmmm …. no, I think Trump knows what he’s doing all the time. It sounds as if perhaps for the first time in his life Trump was confronting people willing to openly disagree with him.
I don’t see the Very Stable Genius going for any “Sorry, I was bonkers” defence.
Oh, I think nearly all of this community agree Trump is crazy like a fox; being a malignant narcissist he’s incapable of saying he has a flaw of any kind because it would destroy his ego to do so.
Barr appears to be the one building an out. The question is whether enough of the GOP will grab it to say Trump’s too unstable to be the party’s standard bearer and then throw him under the bus rather than burn down the rest of the party to save Trump from consequences.
Yes, I can see Barr trying to cast Trump as the Captain Queeg of the GOP.
This comment is a likely foreshadowing of the type of myth that will be created.
Barr built an out for the Special Counsel investigation by big footing Mueller’s report. It didn’t take much to plant the seed.
The Cover-up General launches an attempted cover up one last time.
Rigid commitment to a strategy is not an irrational belief in the facts purportedly underlying it. It’s a rational belief in the Hail, Mary pass, exemplified in the lawyer’s adage: When the facts are against you, argue the law. When the law’s against you, argue the facts. When both are against you – pound the table.
Trump’s post-election strategy was to lie, pound the table, and act as if his lies were true. It’s a rational, last gasp effort to avoid unwelcome consequences. It is not evidence that Trump’s sense of reality is insufficient to defend himself in a court of law.
The trouble with bluffing all of the time is that eventually someone will call it.
He started pushing the “Big Lie ” long before the election. Which Barr conveniently doesn’t mention.
“Bullshit” Barr also failed to mention his own role in spreading the ‘mail-in voting is rife with fraud!’ storyline in the months leading up to the 2020 election.
I kind of think this is why the big lie is a financial fraud evidence is very important. It is one thing to try to defeat criminal intent by claiming you honestly believed (however demented it may be) that the lie was the truth, but another to do so when the lie is a grift. I am not a criminal lawyer but my supposition is that showing a financial motive, while not a required element, is important in obtaining convictions.
It is also easier getting a financial crime guilty verdict than a criminal guilty verdict.
And since Trump has already been convicted of financial crimes he is a serial financial criminal. So maybe there would be more than just a financial penalty this time (one can hope).
OTOH, people have to ask themselves why this supposed billionaire has to steal $250M from people who worship him.
Can you specify what Trump has been “convicted” of? If you are talking about civil judgements, those are not convictions.
https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1536380155249180673
12:09 PM · Jun 13, 2022
Links to:
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1536376754163568641
11:55 AM · Jun 13, 2022
Barr knows his former client as well as he knows that engineered, willful ignorance is not a winning legal defense.
Barr’s resignation letter dated Dec 14, 2020, first paragraph is different from his remarks on videotape. He fawns all over Trump. Perhaps acting as his personal lawyer he wanted to depart on happy terms.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20424018-attorney-general-william-barr-resignation-letter
Probably didn’t want Trump to set his nasty pack on his ass on the way out the door the way the pack went after Al Schmidt and many others.
Has the former guy *ever* shown any interest in facts that didn’t fit his narrative? (Has Barr?)
12:30 PM SCHMIDT re: THREATS due to TRUMP tweet
12:32 PM COURTS as venue for challenges WITNESS: GINSBURG analyzed TRUMP camp’s litigation…how is it different from normal?
Couple of basic problems- 2020 election was not close
NO court found TRUMP campaign’s allegations credible
NOURT found credible evidence of fraud produced by Trump camp.
12:38 PM scrolling court statements re: cases
12:42 PM Additional actions by TRUMP Camp. Related to FUND RAISING [VIDEO]
Official Election Defense Fund did NOT exist
“30 minutes after the last fund raising email was sent, the Capitol was breached.
BIG LIE >>> BIG RIP OFF
$$$250,000,000
I find Rep. Lofgren’s quick change to video presentation snafu this morning highly impressive considering stakes here. Her communication style is straight forward and convincing, logical and brief.
Lofgren also possesses an amazing speaking voice. Mellifluous yet crystal clear, it snagged me from across the apartment. I made a point thereafter of listening to speakers without looking at them, and would recommend this to others as an exercise.
I’ve planned and performed at many public events, and have been studying how these hearings are being presented, all the implicit choices they represent. I’m really hoping that at some point, maybe after an official report emerges, someone supplies an account of how those decisions got made.
I’ve been thinking about why Lofgren would have been chosen as the interrogator/presenter today. I suspect it’s because she’s in a Safe/Solid Democratic congressional district even after she had been moved from CA-19 to CA-18 by redistricting. She survived the primary handily. There won’t be any threat to her seat for her public role which might not be the case for other Dems on the committee.
She’s also not a show horse who’ll draw fire this early in the series of hearings — Schiff, for example, is still a target of MAGA vitriol after the impeachments. He may be in a D+23 district but this hasn’t stopped MAGA trolling.
I remember hearing a description of the presentation being organized by specific parts of the plot that had been assigned to different teams within the committee, and each would be presented by the people who worked on that facet of the planning or execution. Makes sense. I wouldn’t be surprised if each person gets a bit to present.
Plus, having been a staffer during Watergate, then involved in the Clinton, Trump 1 and Trump 2 impeachments, she has enough of the ‘been there, done that’ in her delivery to make it even more interesting to the listener.
Both Cheney and she have the diction and delivery of really powerful women educators…telling you that you need to hear this, why you need to listen, and what the consequences will be of your action. They don’t need to say ‘foolish action’ because adjectives are for the weak.
Ginsberg: Biden’s Arizona lead was [paraphrasing] around 10,000 votes and [direct quote] “you just don’t make up” that difference in recounts.
In that one sentence he destroys the whole Arizona “forensic audit.” Which he then refers to as “farcical.”
Just hoping that is the kind of thing will trickle into the consciousness of anyone whose mind is not yet firmly made up. Drip drip drip. Maybe?
Ginsberg’s stature with the RNC and major GOP candidates should do something but he’s been too open about what he thought about Trump *before* election day 2020.
See: Opinion | My party is destroying itself on the altar of Trump, by Benjamin L. Ginsberg
November 1, 2020 at 4:35 p.m. EST | Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/01/ben-ginsberg-voter-suppression-republicans/
All but one of my Trumpster neighbors are now pissed about that audit now. The $5M+ price tag bothers some; for others it’s the year of lame excuses.
Have to wonder how much of that was grift, too.
iirc, it was about $6M
…and the 10,000 in AZ was the slimmest lead Biden had in any of the swing states, according to Ginsberg.
Yeah, I thought instantly of the almost 12K votes Trump wanted Raffensberger to “find” in Georgia.
One aspect of the fake fraud controversy that interests me is how our modern election systems are designed to make large scale ‘gaming’ and subversion of these systems is close to impossible. It might be worthwhile for the committee to spell this out in their report. It is already apparent to me that big lie advocates “dance around” how these systems in practice work.
The idea that precincts or county BOE’s could be flooded with fraudulent absentee/mail ballots without triggering anything is ridiculous. (Big lie advocates say 2020 election was a ‘perfect crime.’)
This also joins the point made earlier that the breaking of a law is concrete, and so lawbreaking demands an account of when/where/who/what time/what means, evidence to support these claims, and, which actual law was broken. (ianal)
IANAL
Is there potential as well as solid grounds for civil cases to come out of the hearings, J6 court cases, spin off cases by DOJ?
These were all statements taken under oath subject to penalty of perjury. There will doubtless be transcripts as well. So while IANAL either, I think it’s still a gold mine that would be perfectly useful for any type of litigation.
Lol, no.
So none of the injured officers will have grounds for a civil law suit?
No.
Thank you for clarifying. I feel bad for all the injured officers and their families. They will face life long costs not fully covered by their insurance.
Wish it was not so. Maybe something good will come, but would not count on it.
Civil cases have to be filed by a specific party who can claim a clear and direct way in which they were harmed. Of all the possible folks who might push such a claim around anything in these hearings, Dominion Voting appears to be one of the few who can point to the way in which they were directly harmed by those pushing the Big Lie.
I suspect that some of these deposition clips were watched with great delight by the team of litigators at Dominion, as they pursue their various civil cases against Fox, Mike Lindell, Rudy, Sidney Powell, and others. Seems to me that Bill Barr’s clips would be devastating for the defendants in Dominion’s lawsuits, especially Rudy and Sidney.
As I watch I think of how few facts would have to different in order for such an attempt to succeed.
One simple way to produce a successful coup would be to create enough street violence that state level election officials decide to give the election to the coup leader just to return to peace. It would take just a little bit of that to create a permanent incumbent party.
But all of you people can probably think of even easier ways to smooth the path to a successful coup.
“How Democracies Die” explains how most democracies die from inside out. The terrifying understanding is how dependent we are on “norms”.
Even simpler: have the incumbent declare martial law upon one or more elected officials coming to harm during the insurrection.
Michael Flynn apparently urged declaring martial law during at least one planning meeting, not necessarily upon that premise, and or use the military to seize voting machines. His brother, an active duty general, was the duty officer at the Pentagon Jan 6.
There has also been some speculation that the role of one or both of the militia groups that day was tied into the idea.Very creepy.
We came this close.
So much of the tangled regs and procedures for U.S. presidential/military interaction in the case of emergencies is premised on a president acting in good faith who doesn’t want to declare martial law.
@Rayne re top of thread: OK, point taken: triple bank shot fail. I guess “flippant” and “nuanced” don’t pair well ( reference to Peggy Noonan’s famous quote). I’ll clutter this thread no more on the matter.
Is Ivanka testifying from a shower stall?
Haha no a Martian photo booth, Elon is waay further along!
Cued by “You hate Trump” and all the reminiscing lately of prescient warnings: Comedy Central’s The President Show had a special, “The Fall of Trump”, which aired October 22, 2018. It’s available for streaming; just a few misc clips in the wild. Also, it was pretty dead-on funny.
Here’s Trump being removed from the Oval on Jan. 21, 2021, refusing to concede and calling it a white genocide:
The President Gets Evicted From The White House – The President Show
“That’s right, Donald”
Billy [“BULLSHIT!”] BARR:
https://twitter.com/Limericking/status/1536483213228625920
6:58 PM · Jun 13, 2022
RAYNE:
https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1536699818759839745
9:19 AM · Jun 14, 2022
Thanks, harpie. I can’t find the timing of the hearing. I’m assuming they’re keeping to the 1:00 pm slot they already had.
Yes. Here’s the latest I’ve seen:
https://twitter.com/DelWilber/status/1536840032228605953
6:36 PM · Jun 14, 2022
Th 6/16 1PM
Tu 6/21 1 PM
Th 6/23 1 PM
Thanks, harpie. I wish they’d publish this on their website instead of sending advisories to media.
https://twitter.com/jonkarl/status/1536669155805609985
7:17 AM · Jun 14, 2022
Lawmaker’s Capitol Complex Tour on the Eve of Jan. 6 Was Innocent, Police Say The tour led by Representative Barry Loudermilk of Georgia, which had come under scrutiny by the Jan. 6 committee, was a “visit by constituents,” the Capitol Police chief wrote. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/13/us/politics/barry-loudermilk-capitol-tour.html June 13, 2022 Updated June 14, 2022, 11:55 a.m.
RAYBURN and CANNON were two buildings slated for occupation in the “1776 Returns” plan.
For more about the “1776 Returns” plan, see 12/30/20 on this TL:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/03/14/a-white-board-of-the-sedition-curious/#comment-927143
At least one poster has mentioned tfg’s long, long history of financial shenanigans, long preceding his tv and political gigs.
Google Books has the entire archive of the late, great Spy magazine, his earliest, and enduring, media nemesis, available free. A search produces them all, from first reference to “thick-fingered vulgarian”, the .13 check he cashed, and many, many more:
https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=donald+trump&tbs=,bkt:m,bkms:1168684103302644736
Thanks for that link. I’m not going to break it but I want to caution community members the link may contain tracking capability. You can search Google Books for Spy Magazine and Donald Trump to assure there’s no backtracking by Google.
FWIW that’s what I did, and copied the resulting url from the address bar. (I don’t believe in paying for internet stuff with my data, so no logins in or on my system for anything ‘free’, plus several anti-tracker ad-ons for FF.)
Some browsing generates a unique session ID which I can’t be certain that link contained. No worries.
This is so amazing! NPR has complete TRANSCRIPTS of each HEARING!
1- 6/9/22 https://www.npr.org/2022/06/10/1104156949/jan-6-committee-hearing-transcript
2- 6/13/22 https://www.npr.org/2022/06/13/1104690690/heres-every-word-of-the-second-jan-6-committee-hearing-on-its-investigation
Just Security is linking to them in the HEARINGS tab:
January 6 Clearinghouse
Congressional Hearings, Government Documents, Court Cases, Academic Research
https://www.justsecurity.org/77022/january-6-clearinghouse/
Thanks for the links. I opened them on my iPad, and from the browser opened them in a pdf app. They are searchable!
No one should be surprised: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/06/15/ginni-thomas-john-eastman-emails/
Ginni Thomas was emailing with John Eastman.
-____- <<--- my everlasting surprised face ADDER: I want to know why anybody working on the House J6 Committee is sharing this information, though. Why are they tipping GT off about these messages Eastman tried to protect rather than sharing it in hearings? Are they trying to tell Clarence to get his shit in order including announcing his intent to recuse? Are they telling Roberts he needs to get off his dead ass and implement a SCOTUS ethics policy, stat? Are they telling GT because they want to encourage her into an unforced error (kind of like Loudermilk's wrt the "Capitol tour")?
I think someone leaked it to create external pressure because as of now J6 is only ‘mulling’ whether to do a segment on Ginni Thomas’ involvement — and before they were apparently going to omit her entirely.
Internal strife within J6 Committee: i.e. Liz Cheney owns this show and the GOPers really do _not_ want their red line of precious judges crossed. They don’t want to risk losing Thomas’ seat over all this.
—
Adding: briefly saw George Conway on Chris Hayes earlier. You could feel his voice suffocate as he struggled for what to say to sound ‘reasonable’ in response to a Q about GT involvement (implications for CT either stated or implied, wasn’t paying close attention).
IOW it’s all great for the Never Trumpers to express disdain over J6 but if it creeps towards their precious SCOTUS maj., hands off: that’s their line in catching the fleeting sands of democracy.
Besides how she functions as a through-line, Ginni’s activities seem to be broadly interesting to the widest variety of people: my gosh she is the archetypal MAGA character, cult background and all. J6 would likely get more eyeballs (for whatever else they want to cover) if they did a Ginni segment. And it’s not like they are limited in how many hearings they can have.
That would be their “dramatic” Real Housewives episode (cf. bmaz above).
Another option: maybe they leaked it in agreement, hoping that bit of teaser would pique attention to hearings [Eastman] they already have planned.
Interesting trajectory for her re: cults. Taken advantage of by Lifespring, she then goes on an anti-cult crusade because of her experiences there. Then uses her knowledge of being on both sides of a cult to become a leader in the MAGA cult. That means she understands all of the following: 1) victimization, 2) deprogramming and 3) manipulation.
Not for nothing, the neighborhood maga-flagger (they are at half-staff, currently) (at least the US one sits above) was parented by someone raised in, and equally-successfully “escaped from”, a cult.
Very, VERY interesting theme in all of this!
I’d definitely be interested in reading more about that. I hope someone knowledgeable delves further.
…maybe involves the “cult” of the military/police and the indoctrination of a WHOLE GENERATION of post 9-11 young people by Fox/Murdoch et al at EVERY.SINGLE.MILITARY.INSTALLATION
ALL OVER the WORLD.
Rose McGowan, Tulsi Gabbard, …
[Among folks who publicly share that they/parents were in a cult]
[Area Flagger’s parent is no better off than Flagger, btw.]
But as you point, the bigger issue of mass-indoctrination is, uh, terrifying. I’m running out of edit-time to broach cultic religiosity and identity…
At the same time we’re waiting for the shoe to drop on Roe v Wade which didn’t happen this week so far.
Steve Vladeck, today:
https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1537087230816227335
10:58 AM · Jun 15, 2022
I’m wondering if the esteemed justices are making political calculations about the timing.
Naaaah! They wouldn’t do that! [CLARENCE said so!]
Come to think of it…[thinking of the conversation above] there’s a LOT of indoctrination of people into believing that the extrodinarianess of the [conservative only]
JUSTICES MUST NOT BE QUESTIONED!
https://twitter.com/costareports/status/1537222082618081280
7:54 PM · Jun 15, 2022
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1534376483531153408 11:27 PM · Jun 7, 2022
Then there’s this, with a link to the NEW Carter Order, agreeing to RE-classify 10 emails. I read it yesterday, but it’s requiring me now to register, which I don’t want to do. Marcy retweeted the THREAD associated with it. I don’t think anyone else wrote about it.
I do NOT think the e-mails about the meetings on Dec. 8, 9 and 16, with the “secretive pro-Trump group [with the “high-profile leader”] that helped him strategize about the appointment of alternate electors” are among those that were RE-classified.
John Eastman Persuades Judge Carter to Reclassify 10 Emails as Protected From Jan. 6 Committee Saturday’s order reduces from 159 to 149 the number of Chapman University emails Eastman was to disclose to the committee, but it does not change the judge’s central findings about the crime-fraud exception. https://www.law.com/therecorder/2022/06/14/john-eastman-persuades-judge-carter-to-reclassify-10-emails-as-protected-from-jan-6-committee/?slreturn=20220514193623 Meghann M. Cuniff June 14, 2022
Direct link to the order discussed in that article, if you need it:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.841840/gov.uscourts.cacd.841840.364.0.pdf
OHHH!! THANKS! [muah]
[LOL! I just realized I linked it in that comment…OYOYOY!]
LOL. I hadn’t made it down that far on that page yet but as you also raise the “statisticians”, the first I thought of was Douglas Frank & crew; Bobby Piton* [I think there was some guy called Spyder sp./something like that, too. ?] who continued to run the con through summer 2021 at least. e.g.:
There’s an inset box in this feature-length article on how wrong Frank is/was.
—
*trying to review this article quick for the big names
[This follows a comment in moderation]
Frank may have come on the scene after these emails depending on how close they were to the election (do we know the dates/range of these emails?). Piton is definitely a contender well-within that timeframe, he produced his “analyses” immediately [Frank “replicated” (I mean _extra_ lol) Piton’s “results” using a different “methodology”].
And then there’s also Russell Ramsland et al. [ASOG/members] as possible (highly likely) “statisticians”.
[statisticians/end]
For the chicken dinner — Or should that be Thanksgiving Turkey?:
The military-intelligence veterans who helped lead Trump’s campaign of disinformation
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-election-military/
By ARAM ROSTON, BRAD HEATH, JOHN SHIFFMAN and PETER EISLER in DRIPPING SPRINGS, Texas Filed Dec. 15, 2021, noon GMT
LOL, I had perhaps started with the wrong Byrne affiliates. [Per same Reuters, Keshel is “now a paid consultant for The America Project”, whose “chief executive” is Patrick Byrne.]
Repeated script at countless [of “those types of”] sites per search snippets:
I think this might be related to what Herschmann said Eastman wanted to talk to him about on 1/7, moved down to here for more space:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/06/13/house-january-6-committee-public-hearings-day-2/#comment-941468
There are some excerpts from the article and the Order at this comment:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/06/13/january-6-committee-details-trumps-fundraising-fraud/#comment-941303
Here is the relevant portion of the CARTER’s first [6/7/22] ORDER:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.841840/gov.uscourts.cacd.841840.356.0.pdf
I don’t think any of those numbers are listed in the new ORDER.
NEW
https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1537278723958968320
11:39 PM · Jun 15, 2022
Trump Lawyer Cited ‘Heated Fight’ Among Justices Over Election Suits
In an email weeks after the election, another lawyer advising the Trump campaign responded that the prospect of “‘wild’ chaos” on Jan. 6 could lead the Supreme Court to take up a case.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/15/us/trump-emails-eastman-chesebro-jan-6.html
Broadwater / Haberman June 15, 2022
So SCOTUS has already compromised some opinions with/because of this partisan seditionist bullshit.
Anything they opine upon/decide is compromised — and that smarmy little fuck McConnell thinks we need to worry about additional security for them? That’s the problem, SCOTUS may be threatened though a handful of them have already been fucking the country repeatedly especially Thomas?? AgRh!!!
And let’s not forget that “suspicious package” found at SCOTUS on #J6.
Damn. CAVEAT: this is pure speculation. The more I re-read the threads from these hearings, the more I rethink what could have happened. One of the really nice and unexpected resources to come out of coverage of the hearings has been CBS’s 3-D graphics with Scott MacFarlane’s reporting. He reupped the graphic presentation of the attack on the Capitol with emphasis on the Proud Boys going for Pence, seen in this tweet:
PB’s (and Oath Keepers’ stack*) focus was on the East side of the Capitol (which has been noted a bunch of times in several posts here at ew), which is the same side down through which Pence was evacuated. Had the PB team gotten to Pence they may not have dragged him all the way across/around the Capitol to the west side, but likely out the closest exit on the East side…
Which is directly across from SCOTUS. Would they have battered and/or executed Pence to make a point to SCOTUS/give cover to right-wing SCOTUS, directly in front of their building? I don’t know about the ‘suspicious package’ but was it part of this same effort?
Do note the first reply after MacFarlane’s tweet. Someone in one of the threads here also speculated the gallows on West side was intended for Pelosi. Was decimating the presidential succession a fractal portion of an alternative to the Green Bay Sweep?
Was this why Trump never called up NatGuard, to give PB time to do this, why Trump never checked on Pence because he was waiting for call instead? Did Trump never check on the 3rd in succession as well? /speculation
*added – MacFarlane’s video points to a PB smashing East side window but doesn’t mention Oath Keepers.
Wow, Rayne! …I don’t don’t why, yet, but I want to put this here:
https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1537484951003619329
1:19 PM · Jun 16, 2022
Why your comment reminded me of this:
“Supreme Court resolution” … “Pelosi scenario”
To whom is EASTMAN writing?
…someone who had brought up / advocated “martial law”?
~shudder~
Kind of amazing, though, that Eastman had any limits. “Supreme Court resolution,” yes; “Pelosi scenario,” yes, whatever he meant by those terms. But “martial law”? No. Yeesh.
They still worry about violence from the left, when there’s clearly a higher probability of it coming from the right.
The ENTIRE GOP is INDOCTRINATED into it.
This BELIEF is GOP DOCTRINE.
The GOP is just a gradation of
CRAZY-ASS CULT ABSURDIST [CACA] Party.
This is the end of a conversation PENCE Counsel JACOB was having with EASTMAN AS he and PENCE [AND the nuclear football] were being herded out of the Senate Chamber at 2:13 PM on #J6:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21330419-220302-opposition-to-eastmans-privilege-claims-redacted#document/
I mean…WHAT does JACOB IMAGINE
the Dems could POSSIBLY DO that’s WORSE than
what he himself is commenting on
at this very moment!?!?!?
[I’m sorry, but THIS really gets to me…]
[I guess that’s pretty clear…lol!]
[I’ll go take a sedative now]
12/24/20 [THOMAS Clerk] EASTMAN to CHESEBRO and TRUMP Campaign Figures:
“So the odds are not based on the legal merits but an assessment of the justices’ spines, and I understand that there is a heated fight underway” [] “For those willing to do their duty, we should help them by giving them a Wisconsin cert petition to add into the mix.”
A fuller CHESEBRO quote:
Also:
*request to pay* DENIED /to the tune of the O’Jays
NYCSouthpaw:
https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1537398686799511552
7:36 AM · Jun 16, 2022
Links to Steve Vladeck:
https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1537396968183541760
7:29 AM · Jun 16, 2022
https://twitter.com/AndrewSolender/status/1537454198194946049
11:17 AM · Jun 16, 2022
Exclusive:
Trump Lawyer Kenneth Chesebro Talks About His Role In The Runup To Jan. 6 https://talkingpointsmemo.com/feature/exclusive-trump-lawyer-kenneth-chesebro-talks-about-his-role-in-the-runup-to-jan-6 Josh Kovensky June 16, 2022 11:46 a.m.
But he JUST “comment[ed] on it”! starting from the thesis that there ARE election integrity issues and hoping for some kind of “compromises [so that] people won’t have to worry about election integrity.”
The ONLY reason some people are worrying about that
is because YOU ALL pushed that FICTION!
Moving this https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/06/13/house-january-6-committee-public-hearings-day-2/#comment-941452 here for more space:
—
I suspect this issue of the statisticians might be related in part to what Herschmann said Eastman was contacting him about on 1/7 (also in part).
Judge Carter ordered Eastman to produce emails with (I’ll call) different “occasions” of statisticians (not necessarily different people, but perhaps so given they were used for different [potential] litigation).
One is a batch of 46 documents* re “statistical analysis” for a prospective suit re the Georgia runoff elections. [Eastman called this “perspective [sic] litigation”.]
In his speech at the Ellipse 1/6, Eastman used a claim of “See!” fraud at the Georgia runoffs to “explain” the big lie. This may have seemed like an underneath point to normal viewers (and then there is all that would come to pass that day), but this Georgia runoffs “fraud” analogy was a big deal in maga-world. In fact, Rudy introduces Eastman for the express purpose that “Professor” Eastman will “easily” explain (“I know this is complicated”, Rudy offers) how the math/fraud works and how it’s “exactly” the same as what happened to Trump (pretty close paraphrase).
So when Herschmann says he doesn’t really know why Eastman wanted to talk to him 1/7 but that:
I think of this Ellipse trick and wonder where that aborted conversation was going.
Beyond never taking off, was this “perspective litigation” substantially delayed because Herschmann, as we now know, told Eastman to STFU about everything but “orderly transition” and to get a good criminal lawyer? [Besides all that other trouble Eastman’s client Trump and “Conference” colleague Cleta was in over the GA call.]
—
*These are numbered much higher, 62xxx-es & 63xxx-es; not saying this “statistical analysis” for a GA runoffs suit came at time of 1/6, 1/7, but that the idea (and sig’ce to maga-world) of using it as a foil did.
Ellipse rally, full video, Rudy intro-ing Eastman ~ 2:24:
Rally on Electoral College Vote Certification | C-SPAN.org
https://www.c-span.org/video/?507744-1/rally-electoral-college-vote-certification
harpie transcribed Herschmann re Eastman 1/7 here:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/06/13/january-6-committee-details-trumps-fundraising-fraud/#comment-941294
And here’s the breakdown of the RALLY speeches:
[Not sure if I transcribed the whole thing] https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/02/08/in-his-impeachment-defense-trump-spends-five-times-as-long-not-addressing-the-mike-pence-allegations/#comment-882266
[Another example of cultish apocalyptic language.]
They love to think that any individual ballot can be tracked back to the person who filled it out – but they can’t explain how that works, without sounding like a lunatic, because the system is designed to make that impossible.
https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1537425210605019138
9:21 AM · Jun 16, 2022
Timeline: False Alternate Slate of Electors Scheme, Donald Trump and His Close Associates
https://www.justsecurity.org/81939/timeline-false-alternate-slate-of-electors-scheme-donald-trump-and-his-close-associates/ Goodman 6/16/22