House January 6 Committee: Public Hearings – Day 5

This post and comment thread are dedicated to the House January 6 Committee hearings scheduled to begin Thursday June 23, 2022 at 3:00 p.m. ET.

Please take all comments unrelated to the hearings to a different thread.

The hearings will stream on:

House J6 Committee’s website:

House J6 Committee’s YouTube page: TBD

C-SPAN’s House J6 hearing page:

C-SPAN’s YouTube page:

Check PBS for your local affiliate’s stream: (see upper right corner) or watch here:

(I wish Twitter was carrying multiple live streams but they have yet to publish an Event. I guess Twitter has decided this historic series of hearings isn’t worth their time.

4:00 p.m. — Oh, look, Twitter finally got their shit together and just in time for recess.

ABC is carrying the hearing live on broadcast; CNN, NBC Now and MSNBC on their cable networks.

(CBS has likewise thrown in the towel like Twitter as I don’t see the hearing listed under their channel.)

Twitter accounts live tweeting the hearing tonight:

Marcy’s Twitter thread:

Brandi Buchman-DailyKos:

Laura Rozen:

Scott MacFarlane-CBS:

If you know of any other credible source tweeting the coverage, please share a link in comments.

Today’s scheduled witnesses:

Jeffrey A. Rosen, Former Acting Attorney General

Richard Donoghue, Former Acting Deputy Attorney General

Steven Engel, Former Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel

There may be more not yet shared by the committee in their Twitter feed since the hearings to date have had two panels.

~ ~ ~

Any updates will appear at the bottom of this post; please bear with any content burps as this page may be edited as the hearing progresses.

Again, this post is dedicated to the House January 6 Committee  and topics addressed in testimony and evidence produced during the hearing.

All other discussion should be in threads under the appropriate post with open discussion under the most recent Trash Talk.

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274 replies
  1. Ravenclaw says:

    Apparently we will hear from Jeffrey Rosen and Richard Donoghue (acting A.G. and deputy A.G.) plus Steven Engel (office of legal counsel), the focus being on the effort to subvert DOJ. With Kinzinger taking a star turn. (Wanna bet they replay the clip of Jared sneering at the “whining?”)

    • Rayne says:

      I wonder how many times during the course of the hearings we’ll get to see that clip of Jared re whining. Should make a special drinking game with clip earning a double shot.

      • Knox Bronson says:

        I may have missed it, but nowhere have I seen anybody, anywhere, mention Jared’s words right before he talked about everybody whining, “Like I said, at that time, my interest was trying to get as many pardons done …” He didn’t complete the thought, but jumped to the whining remark.
        I keep going back to that. What was he talking about? After bringing peace to the Middle East and conquering COVID-19*, he was dealing with pardons?
        What did Jared have to do with pardons? My thought: he was selling them.
        I really hope he and his animatronic wife spend a number of years in prison.

        *Joking, of course.

        • grennan says:

          That’s what it looked like in at least some coverage pre and post 2020 election (before 1/06). ‘Pardon brokers’ were open for business.

  2. harpie says:

    In preparation for the Hearing today, Ryan Goodman [of Just Security] tweeted a screenshot of the 1/3/21 DOJ draftletter of resignation:
    8:32 AM · Jun 23, 2022

    Prep for #January6thHearings on DOJ.
    Key evidence: senior DOJ official draft mass resignation letter:

    “Rosen over the course of the last week repeatedly refused the President’s direct instructions to utilize the Department of Justice’s law enforcement powers for improper ends” [screenshot]

    Here’s the [majority staff] report from the Senate Judiciary Committee:

    Subverting How the Former President and His Allies Pressured DOJ to Overturn the 2020 Election [Majority Staff Report]

    [RAYNE: are you sure about the TIME of this Hearing?]

    [Aw nuts, I thought I had this post set up for later today. I’m pulling it back into the cupboard for a while, your comment will disappear along with post. Sorry, harpie. /~Rayne]

    • harpie says:

      Ugg…it’s actually called Subverting Justice
      [dang…and I already had all my coffee for the day!]

  3. Ddub says:

    So the Committee is considering more episodes, meaning there’s going to be more episodes. I would like to suggest a Hearing on how media conglomerates and their platforms spread disinformation after the election. Name and shame, rinse, repeat.

      • Ddub says:

        Since the on air talent at Fox was, through leaked texts a part of the decision tree that day, yes I would like to see more about Fox’s role that day, and leading up to.

        • Rugger9 says:

          Faux has been a shadow Cabinet for a long time, but this insurrection investigation will pull open some doors, I hope.

        • Rayne says:

          You’re going to have to make the case that Fox News was engaged in criminal activity which is not a free speech exercise. Involvement in discussion or airing of opinion isn’t illegal nor can it be regulated.

    • bmaz says:

      Which means they will be arrogantly dicking off DOJ for even longer while they preen with their infomercials.

  4. harpie says:

    Jeffrey CLARK’s home in Va was searched by Federal Agents this morning:
    12:52 PM · Jun 23, 2022

    BREAKING – Federal agents searched the Virginia home of former Trump-era Justice Department official Jeffrey Clark on Wednesday morning, [6/23/22] according to multiple sources with direct knowledge of the activity.

    • harpie says:

      Is it just me, or does Russ VOUGHT sound a bit shrill?
      1:21 PM · Jun 23, 2022

      BREAKING -Russ Vought, former OMB Director for President Trump, issues statement on federal agents’ search of the home of former DOJ official Jeff Clark yesterday. Clark will feature prominently in the House Select Committee hearing today focused on the Trump Justice Department 1 [

      • harpie says:

        More from Vought, president of the Center for Renewing America: “All because Jeff saw fit to investigate voter fraud. This is not America, folks. The weaponization of government must end. Let me be very clear. We stand by Jeff and so must all patriots in this country.” 3/x

        • P J Evans says:

          IIRC, it was the former guy who did a lot to weaponize government. But that doesn’t fit Vought’s preferred story.

        • Alan Charbonneau says:

          From the Center for Renewing America’s website policy statement on Critical Race Theory: “The threats to our communities, our families, and our faith–the pillars that allow us to live out our freedom–are vast, real, and increasingly hostile. Among these threats is a radical philosophy, rooted in Marxism, known as Critical Race Theory.”

          I think I can guess the rest of their “mission” from that snippet.

        • harpie says:

          lol! OY! I’m sorry Rayne! …should never do things in a hurry. I promise to do better!

          [No problem whatsoever. LOL I only noticed because I couldn’t spell his name the other day and couldn’t search for your previous comments related to Klukowski. /~Rayne]

        • harpie says:

          And Jane MAYER:

          6:29 PM · Jun 23, 2022

          The Center for Renewing America – Jeffrey Clark’s employer- is a project of the Conservative Partnership Institute– run by Mark Meadows, Cleta Mitchell, Jim DeMint, and funded in part by Trump’s leadership PAC.


        • timbo says:

          This. If you want to see these cockroaches really scurry, go back and look at the weapons shipments to Ukraine (or that period where there was none because, well, even more crimin by the Twisslerings). I’m guessing you’ll find that there were campaign contributions and/or bribes going on between these bozos and the guys that make the weapons we were shipping to Ukraine, etc.

          That is, these guys were extorting not just the Ukrainians to hit Biden with dirt, they were very likely also on the take themselves and extorting whomever they saw fit to extort from their various USG sinecures.

        • harpie says:

          More info:

          5:54 PM · Jun 23, 2022

          So attempted coupster Jeffrey Clark now works at something called the Center for Renewing America

          Founded by another pro-coup Trumper, Russell Vought, it says its mission is: “to renew a consensus of America as a nation under God.

          What it doesn’t say: who its funders are [THREAD]

          Also in the screenshot in the secon tweet of that thread:
          Mark PAOLETTA.

          This is from the comment thread I linked above:

          Aug 27, 2019 – NEW: Ken Klukowski, a longtime senior legal analyst for Breitbart News, has been hired as a “special counsel” for the Office of Management and Budget. He will report to general counsel Mark Paoletta

        • harpie says:

          Here’s Marcy, in March, about PAOLETTA:

          According to a recent NYT story, Project Veritas paid $50,000 to a former Mike Pence lawyer and House staffer, Mark Paoletta, to get members of Congress to push back against the criminal investigation into the rat-fucking organization. […]
          Paoletta apparently knew — and shared — details that had not yet been reported by the press. Paoletta knew of a September 6, 2020 fundraiser held by Elizabeth Fago and attended by Don Jr where Ashley Biden’s diary — allegedly stolen — was passed around. […]

        • P J Evans says:

          “a nation under god” sets off all kinds of alarms. That’s people wanting a theocracy, with themselves on top, and it’s bad for everyone else.

        • Dopey-o says:

          “ I assume the God they think this nation is under is Mammon.”

          They also love Moloch, bloodthirsty devourer of children. cf: Uvalde, TX.

      • grennan says:

        If you were *this* boss at *this* outfit, as described below, you might be trying to slam the birdie far far away from anything that might be in the house — or electronic devices– concerning you.

    • harpie says:

      Marcy retweeted this on/about 1/1/21:
      10:02 AM · Jan 1, 2021

      Good @Milbank column on OMB Director Russel Vought, a right-wing fanatic who’s blocking the transition [Paywall] [LINK]

      Russell Vought is sabotaging national security, the pandemic response and the economic recovery – –all to make things more difficult for the incoming Biden Administration

      See this comment about what BANNON was doing on 12/30/20:


      [BANNON to TRUMP]: […] “We’re going to bury Biden on January 6th, fucking bury him.” [] “We are going to kill the Biden Presidency in the crib” […]

  5. Rugger9 says:

    It appears Mr. Holder’s film contradicts Ivanka’s testimony under oath to the committee. IIRC and I may be wrong, Individual-1 did not really lash out at his favorite daughter like the others who talked. Perhaps this is why. However, this committee seems to be getting angrier about stuff like this and I would expect Ivanka will be summoned back to explain herself, at least.

    Footage here:

    DJTJr on the other hand has to be wondering what it will take to replace Ivanka as the apple of Individual-1’s eye. He’ll need more therapy for sure, but let’s see how whacked out he is on his next video.

    • grennan says:

      Yes, what tfg said is not throwing her under the bus but exonerative — she didn’t know anything because she’d checked out before that day.

      When she says on video that she knew pops had lost, she sort of seems surprised to then be asked how she knew and thinking “quickly” says she respected Barr.

      Nobody should forget her first action after the capitol was breached was to tweet something about the intruders being great patriots, her second one was to delete that tweet.

      Baby Doc will probably end up at one of those spooky change your blood rehab places in Switzerland.

  6. gknight says:

    The Committee also might consider showing a video of Senator Grassley’s statement on 1/5: “Well, first of all, I will be — if the Vice President isn’t there and we don’t expect him to be there, I will be presiding over the Senate,” according to a transcript of his remarks sent by a spokesperson.

    But then those politicians don’t really mess with each other in a hearing, right? Unless it’s for cash. Nothing as unimportant as oaths to protect the U.S. Constitution and our democracy. s/

    • Peterr says:

      It was an oral comment by Grassley, not a statement sent out by his office. His words were noticed at the time, on Jan 5th, and his staff immediately “cleaned it up” as a gaffe/mis-statement, and that Pence was expected to preside. Given Grassley’s age and general presence, it’s not the first time his staff has had to quietly “clarify” his remarks to the press.

      On January 6th, when the US Secret Service whisked Pence off the dais into a more secure location, the Senate remained in session for a few minutes. Grassley assumed the role of presiding officer of the Senate (as the President Pro Tempore, Grassley was fulfilling his role according to the constitution and the rules of the Senate), and he was the one that eventually ordered a recess to the proceedings.

  7. harpie says:

    3:02 gavel THOMPSON
    3:04 TRUMP wanted the DOJ to legitimize his lies
    3:06 CHENEY w/ context

  8. harpie says:

    3:09 Today’s focus: CLARK / KLUKOWSKY letter
    3:13 BARR asked why he changed DOJ policy
    [BARR: “I’m not sure we would have had a transition at all”]

  9. harpie says:

    3:14 KINZINGER
    3:19 12/27/20 TRUMP to Rosen/Donoghue: just say that the election was corrupt + leave the rest to me and the R. Congressmen.

  10. WilliamOckham says:

    Liz Cheney knows how to get people to hang around for the end of a hearing (dangling the MOCs looking for pardons)

      • bmaz says:

        Lol, what a joke. I guess today it is going to be substantially up to Adam Kinzinger, a person with no experience whatsoever examining witnesses, to preen for the camera. So brilliant!

  11. harpie says:

    3:20 HERSCHMANN wrt: CLARK
    3:21 We will take you into the WH 1/3/21 meeting
    3:23 DONOGHUE: “We’ll call you when there’s an oil spill”

  12. Ddub says:

    They’re doing the computer graphics lol that’s great!
    I was calling for it so it got a chuckle.

  13. harpie says:

    3:27 THOMPSON introduces witnesses
    3:27 THOMPSON introduces witnesses
    3:29 BARR told TRUMP 3x No election fraud
    Did TRUMP continue to demand DOJ investigate allegations of election fraud? YES
    TRUMP Called or met with ROSEN every day

    Long list of TRUMP requests [DECLINED]

  14. harpie says:

    3:32 DONGHUE: TRUMP calls them to WH on 12/15/20
    Focused on ANTRIM /Allied Security Group report

    3:34 ENGEL
    3:34 KINZINGER
    3:35 11/29/20 TRUMP leans on DOJ in first interview after election:
    TRUMP: DOJ “missing in action”
    [VIDEO] of congress people

  15. Ravenclaw says:

    “What did the President give you for your birthday, Mister Attorney General?”
    “He gave me a day off from his attempts to persuade me to announce investigations of nonexistent election fraud.”
    (Sorry. Couldn’t resist.)

  16. harpie says:

    3:38 12/27/20 DONOGHUE: TRUMP had arsenal of allegations he wanted to rely on. We had concluded that these allegations had no merit.
    ASOG report
    DONOGHUE to TRUMP: people are telling you things that are not true.
    NONE of the allegations were credible.

  17. harpie says:

    3:42 DONOGHUE started taking notes because there was an allegation he hadn’t heard before: 200,000 Pa votes certified that were not cast.
    3:45 DONOGHUE: this is an exact quote from President: Just say it was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the R. Congressmen
    TRUMP was more agitated than 12/15

  18. harpie says:

    3:47 KINZINGER: TRUMP just wanted DOJ “stamp of approval on the lies”. Clark would help him.
    3:49 CLARK
    3:49 MTG
    3:50 MEADOWS tweet
    TRUMP calls in to Turning POINTS
    3:51 PERRY brings CLARK to WH
    3:51 GIULIANI: Someone should be put in charge of the Justice Department who’s not frightened about their reputation.

    • harpie says:

      3:49 PM

      “On December 21, some Republican members of Congress met with President Trump in the White House to talk about overturning the 2020 election.” Marjorie Taylor Greene and Scott Perry were among them. Perry then helped introduce Jeffrey Clark to Trump. [VIDEO]

      3:51 PM

      Giuliani during his deposition on why Jeffrey Clark was given election related responsibilities: “Somebody should be put in charge of the Justice Department who isn’t frightened of what is going to be done to their reputation.” [VIDEO]

    • harpie says:

      3:54 PM ew:

      Jeffrey Rosen claims the Trump Admin adhered to contact rules.

      Maybe true. I’d love to have a question under oath, while he’s here.

      3:55 PM ew:

      BREAKING: Steve Engel, who wrote a memo to kill the investigation into hush payments and another to attempt to kill the Ukraine whistleblower complaint, talks about the import of protecting Criminal investigations.

  19. Rayne says:

    Perry’s been keeping a low profile lately. Hmm.

  20. harpie says:

    3:57 12/26/2020 PERRY / MEDOWS texts
    3:58 DONOGHUE: 12/27/20 PERRY called “at the behest of the President”

  21. harpie says:

    4:06 CHENEY: KLUKOWSKI [who worked with CLARK] worked with EASTMAN [!!]
    4:08 CLARK deposition [VIDEO]
    4:08 THOMPSON 10 minute recess

    • harpie says:

      4:06 PM [on screen]

      12/28/20 Email: [Ken] BLACKWELL to Edward Corrigan

      “As stated last week, I believe the VP and his staff would benefit greatly from a briefing by John [EASTMAN] and Ken [KLUKOWSKI]. As I also mentioned, make sure we don’t overexpose Ken given his new position. The reason I suggested Connie [HAIR] discuss this with you, Ed is that I know you are sensitive to this situation.”

      4:07 PM ew:

      Cheney: Klukowski simultaneously working with DOJ and with Eastman.

      Cut to Clark invoking the Fifth.

      4:07 PM

      Cheney plays a clip of Clark claiming executive privilege to avoid answering questions during his deposition [VIDEO]

  22. WilliamOckham says:

    Ken Blackwell gets a mention. He’s a name on my drinking game bingo card. Sadly, I have to wait a couple of hours before a drink.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      Poor Ken Blackwell. His conflicts of interest as Ohio SecState in 2004, when BushCheney were re-elected, were enormous. He set the standard that Brian Kemp handily exceeded when he acted as SecState in Georgia, overseeing the vote in his own election as governor. Since then, poor Ken has had to make do working for an arm of the Family Research Council.

      • WilliamOckham says:

        More to the point for our current purposes, he’s a board member of CNP Action, Inc. (with Ginni Thomas, btw).

        CNP Action is the 501(c)(4) arm of the Council for National Policy. On November 13th, Blackwell facilitated a CNP Action meeting called Election Results and Legal Battles: What Now?. The speakers for the session wer J. Christian Adams, Cleta (Ginni’s best friend) Mitchell and Hans von Spakovsky.

        The outcome of the session was to recommend the following steps for the attendees:

        Priority Action Steps:
        • Call PA, GA, AZ legislative contacts to urge their support of litigation calling for an open, fair and transparent accounting of the 2020 Presidential voter ballots.
        • Encourage volunteers in these states to communicate to state legislators/Congress the importance of action on their part.
        Demand that they not abandon their Constitutional responsibilities during a time such as this.
        • Visit to report fraud and take action.
        Additional Action Step:
        • Create public demand for state legislators to get involved in the process, with states calling other states to amplify that “We the people” say it is their [state legislators’] duty to appoint electors to the Electoral College, in states where constitutional rights have been violated and evidence of substantial fraud has been established.

        • B Ruff says:

          So if I just get enough people together and say “We the people, etc” then I can reverse the will of the voters?
          Sounds great
          I think they had all these plans well before the last election loss for Trump; it’s the same flavor of bs they always roll out.
          The problem is the glaring lack of evidence. By their own plan it relies on “evidence of substantial fraud”. Of which, there is none. Stirring up idiots on FB is not enough, sorry.
          Ironically, that list of action items might be just what the non cheating voters need to follow after the next election if the gop election boards do try to certify elections based on their feelings.

    • WilliamOckham says:

      Here’s why that email from Ken Blackwell to John Eastman is so important. It shows direct coordination between the Trump Campaign, the congressional insurrectionists, and the 501(c)(3)/501(c)(4) infrastructure that Ken Blackwell was fronting for.

  23. harpie says:

    4:25 ENGEL
    4:26 12/21/20 BARR: I have no plan to appoint a special counsel
    4:27 TRUMP tweet: special counsel needed
    4:28 TRUMP promised special counsel job to POWELL on 12/18/20

    • harpie says:

      4:22 PM

      Former DOJ official Steven Engel details Trump asking officials to bring a baseless case prepared by an outside lawyer asking SCOTUS to get involved in overturning the election [VIDEO]

      4:25 PM ew:

      K: So would you say it was an unusual requet?
      E: To file a lawsuit drafted by outside lawyers, yes.

      4:26 PM

      Kinzinger details how Trump continued pressuring the DOJ to appoint a special counsel to investigate fraud even after Barr and other officials said there was no basis for one [VIDEO]

    • harpie says:

      4:27 PM

      Sidney Powell during her deposition said that Trump asked her to be special counsel to investigate his election lies [VIDEO]

      4:28 PM ew:

      Engel answers Kinzinger’s question about whether there was ever a time to appoint a SC, and Engel says there had to be a conflict of interest.

      So … did he sign off on the Durham appointment?
      Bc if so, that’s illegal, per … him.

  24. harpie says:

    4:29 12/31/20 ROSEN on WH meeting
    TRUMP: seize voting machines / need special counsel
    TRUMP: Get CUCINELLI on the phone; Ken, you can seize voting machines, you’re not doing you’re job

    • Purple Martin says:

      Not just that, closer to…

      “Ken, Jeff Rosen just told me you can seize the voting machines.”

      One lie per sentence isn’t enough for TFG.

      • harpie says:

        Yes, thanks. That’s important…[my note taking skills are a bit rusty]

        TRUMP often lies about what other people have said. One example is his 1/5/21 evening statement about PENCE agreeing with him about his supposed super-powers during the next day’s electoral college certification.

        • Rayne says:

          Was that a lie or a deliberate misrepresentation intended to pressure Pence into compliance? Trump surely understood Pence didn’t have the spine to openly say he didn’t support Trump’s Big Lie efforts; was Trump counting on Pence caving? (Which makes me wonder if Pence had caved before on other matters.)

        • harpie says:

          I think it was a deliberate [knowing] LIE,
          said with the INTENT to intimidate.
          Yes, I think TRUMP expected PENCE to SUBMIT…again.

    • harpie says:

      4:29 PM

      Rosen testifies that Trump asked him about seize voting machines from state governments. Trump got mad when DOJ officials told him it was a bad and unlawful idea. [VIDEO]

      4:32 PM ew:

      Kinzinger: No factual basis to seize machines.

      Rosen, interrupting: I don’t think there’d be legal authority, either.

      Rosen, quoting Trump: Get Ken Cuccinelli on the phone. Trump: It’s your job to seize machines!

      TRUMP: Get CUCINELLI on the phone; Ken, you can sieze voting machines, you’re not doing you’re job

  25. harpie says:

    4:35 1/1/21 ROSEN: this email from MEADOWS was corroboration that there were conversations going on bet. CLARK / WH without my knowledge.
    4:37 Italy video DONOGHUE: “pure insanity”
    4:39 MEADOWS to ROSEN: VIDEO guy JOHNSON is working with GIULIANI
    4:40 DONOGHUE call from PATEL asking about “Italy thing”

    • harpie says:

      4:34 PM MEADOWS to ROSEN emails:

      1/1/21 MEADOWS to ROSEN emails:

      “There have been allegations of signature match anomalies in Fulton County, Ga. Can you get Jeff Clark to engage on this issue immediately to determine if there is any truth to this allegation”

      “Subject: 2020 Ballot Security – New Mexico Complaints.docx”
      “Can you forward this list to your team to review the allegations contained herein.”

      “Subject: [EXTERNAL] Brad Johnson: Rome, Satellites, Servers: and Update – YouTube”

    • harpie says:

      4:35 PM ew:

      Kinzinger showing how the conspiracy theory about Italian machines came from @RepScottPerry

      12/31/20 11:44 PM
      PERRY to MEADOWS text
      [youtube link]
      Why can’t we just work with the Italian government? []

      4:35 PM

      “Pure insanity” — Kinzinger details how a crazy conspiracy theory about Italian satellites changing votes from Trump to Biden quickly made its way from the fringe of the internet to the White House [VIDEO]

    • harpie says:

      4:37 PM

      Rosen talks about being unwilling to meet with Rudy Giuliani to talk about the crazed conspiracy theories he was pushing [VIDEO]

      4:38 PM ew:

      Donoghue responded by forwarding it to Rosen, “Pure insanity.”

      Rosen: He called me, Mr. Meadows, and asked me to meet with Mr. Johnson.

      Rosen is talking about the bullshit Meadows was pitching.
      Much of the John Durham investigation came from Meadows.

      Meadows calls back and says Rudy is offended that they have to go to FBI.

    • harpie says:

      4:39 PM ew:

      Kash Patel!!!!!!!! // !!!!! // !!!!!!!!!!

      That individual is in custody in Italy. He had been arrested for cyber in Italy. He was in custody. Very murky at best.

  26. Doctor My Eyes says:

    Someone could understand how Trump, “as a layperson”, would have difficulty understanding that the DOJ has no role to play in how states administer their elections. I guess I know what he means, but really, now POTUS is a “layperson”?!! I can’t say why, but that really struck me as both hilarious and pathetic.

      • Rayne says:

        It’s both a floor wax and a dessert topping!

        But seriously, the orange twatwaffle would have had a difficult time reading the Constitution to learn the executive branch’s limitations.

    • John Paul Jones says:

      I don’t think he’s stupid per se. He’s very poorly educated, he’s got a lot of accumulated experience in grifting, some street smarts, but his chief crime is he’s totally — incurious (unless it involves “me getting things for me”).

  27. harpie says:

    4:41 DOD MILLER actually calls ITALY He was asked by MEADOWS
    KINZINGER: TRUMP: You guys may not be following the internet the way I do.
    4:42 ROSEN / DONOGHUE mtg w/CLARK “insubordinate, out of line”

  28. harpie says:

    4:52 TRUMP and CLARK are in constant communication on that day as if he were already AG [!!] [screenshot]

  29. Portly says:

    I got a sawbuck on Clark being indicted within a week. Anyone want a piece?

    [Welcome back to emptywheel. Please use the same username each time you comment so that community members get to know you. This is your second user name; please stick with this one here forward. Thanks. /~Rayne]

    • bmaz says:

      Nope. Here is the thing , this is a search warrant, not a subpoena. That means a federal judge has already found probable cause that a federal crime was committed and that the person to be searched committed it. So, yeah, if I were Clark, I’d keep my toothbrush handy if not in my pocket. And then I’d go sleep at my attorney’s office.

        • bmaz says:

          Don’t know. But there was at least one, if not more, specified in the warrant app for the warrant to be issued. And the allegations better be solid in a situation like this.

        • Peterr says:

          My sense is that any judge who is asked to sign off on a warrant to search the home of an AAG is going to be damn sure the allegations are solid and supported with evidence.

      • Pigeon in a Library says:

        The fact that the press wasn’t tipped off to be there to film Clark in his pajamas is a real credit to the integrity of DOJ and also a major disappointment.

        • bmaz says:

          Yes. Though am not generally a fan of perp walks whether at home or into facilities. But yeah.

        • punaise says:

          Point taken in general, but for those of us pining for a frog march this Onesie padding may have to suffice.

        • bmaz says:

          No response to the Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart reply? Not just anybody can pull that out of their ass you know!

        • Knox Bronson says:

          Sorry, bmaz, I saw them in Honolulu in 1969. I went with my uncle and cousins. The instrumental surf band The Ventures opened for them. And these two guys with guitars and blue and white striped bell-bottoms doing sort of an Everly Brothers thing before that.

        • grennan says:

          Substitute Monkees: Mickey Dolenz and Davy Jones toured with Boyce and Hart in 1975. By sheer serendip my bf and I saw them at the Club 18, Verona, WI that fall. Hard to forget their version of “Stepping Stone” with Dolenz flame-popping his fingers.

          We were all UW seniors and just old enough to have spurned the tv show in jr high. But even in the rock throwing era, when hosts of large Madison parties wanted people to dance, they put on “Last Train To Clarksville”.

          Not the frats or sororities — coops, communes, block parties fundraisers, etc.

          Several decades later, it was the big dance at the coolest club in Manchester, then the coolest city in the UK. (That was weird, but not weirder than eating first at Bill Wyman’s Sticky Fingers barbecue restaurant, where the menu included “Beggars’ Banquet all-you-can-eat ribs”.)

        • Alan Charbonneau says:

          I know those guys…
          The Monkees theme song, “I’m a Believer”, was written by Neil Diamond.

          Boyce & Hart wrote “I Wonder what She’s Doing Tonight” and had a hit with it. They also wrote a lot of the Monkees songs.

        • grennan says:

          Saw John Stewart in FL in early 90s. He introduced “Daydream Believer” by saying “It’s Monkee Time! But this song has paid for a lot of tuition “

        • J R in WV says:

          I am acquainted with someone who saw Jimi Hendrix open for the Monkees in North Carolina back in the day… name now escapes me.

          But imagine that show!!

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        You should replace the tv lawyers on MSNBC. With all their blathering, Melber included, they never put two and two together – FBI-federal judge-probable cause-to find evidence of a crime-at the scene to be searched – in that pithy fashion.

  30. harpie says:

    5:00 ROSEN
    5:02 ENGEL
    5:03 DONOGHUE: CIPOLLONE: “this letter is a murder suicide pact”

    • harpie says:

      4:56 PM

      “The president said, ‘what do I have to lose?’ And it was actually a good opening because I said, ‘Mr. President, you have a great deal to lose'” — Donoghue on what he told Trump as he was considering firing Rosen and replacing him with Clark [VIDEO]
      4:57 PM · Jun 23, 2022

      Have heard from several former Trump advisers acknowledging this testimony is quite grim.
      [< Marcy: LOL.]

    • harpie says:

      5:00 PM

      “You’re going to lose your entire [DOJ] leadership … you could have hundreds of hundreds of resignations of the leadership of your entire Justice Department because of your actions. What that’s going to say about you?”- Donoghue on what he told Trump about possibly firing Rosen [VIDEO]

      5:02 PM

      Engel on what he said to Trump: “All anyone’s going to think is that you went through 2 AGs in 2 weeks, until you found the environmental guy to sign this thing. The story is not going to be that DOJ has found massive corruption that would’ve changed the result of the election.” [VIDEO]

      5:02 PM BB:

      All anyone is going to think is that you went through two attorneys general in two weeks until you find this environmental lawyer who would sign off on the letter from Clark.

      That’s when Cipollone called it a murder-suicide pact

      Clark was told, in front of Trump, that if they did this, Clark would be presiding over a graveyard. […]

  31. harpie says:

    5:06 TRUMP calls ROSEN 90 minutes after meeting ends with info about truck full of shredded ballots in GA refers to CUCINELLI at DHS
    5:07 TRUMP allegations at RALLY speech
    5:08 J6
    Call logs
    5:10 ROSEN: Did not speak with the President that day

    • Rugger9 says:

      Typical grasping at straws for any justification by Individual-1. I thought the Italian satellite story was weirder, but at least some of the senior staff got a trip to Italy out of it.

      I was listening to Colbert’s monologue and he played the clip where TFG dangled the ‘possibility’ of pardons for those ‘parading’ J6 seditionists if he was put back in office. Very Soviet stuff to consider the possibility for doing good as a motivation to get someone to do a favor…

    • harpie says:

      5:10 PM ew:

      Rosen: On the phone all day. Counterparts at other agencies. WH, Pelosi, McCarthy, Schumer, McConnell’s CoS. There’s a dire situation. We were on a very urgent basis. Over 500 agents and officers from FBI, ATF, and Marshals.

      Spoke to Pence twice.

      Conference call ~7PM, order close to being secured. What time could Congress reassemble. 8PM. One highlight. Mr. Donoghue, had gone to Rotunda to give firsthand account.

      Did you speak to the President on Jan 6?

      Rosen: No. A number of senior officials but not the President.

  32. harpie says:

    5:11 DONOGHUE left CAPITOL at about 8:30PM
    Never talked to TRUMP that day
    5:13 KINZINGER re: Congress people requesting pardons
    5:14 HERSCHMANN re: pardons
    5:15 HUTCHINSON: GAETZ and BROOKs both wanted blanket pardon; BIGGS, JORDAN tlked about it, but did not ask her for one. GOHMERT asked for one. MTG asked PHILBIN
    5:16 MCENTEE

    • Rugger9 says:

      I’m not sure why Gaetz was dropped in at the last minute for discussing his request for a pardon, that was weird and sounded unfocused to me. It’s not what I’d want ringing in the ears of the public unless there was more about the pardons for Eastman and other key players (and an acknowledgement that AFAIK almost none of the pardons were granted). IMHO the pardon dangling is important but needed to focus on its corrupt intent and that even Matt Gaetz (under investigation for serious felony charges) thought he could get one.

    • harpie says:

      5:12 PM

      here’s a January 11, 2021, email from Mo Brooks asking for pardons for himself and Matt Gaetz

      “President Trump asked me to send you this letter. This letter is also pursuant to a request from Matt Gaetz.” [] “As such, I recommend that President give general (all purpose) pardons to the following groups of people.” [] “Every Congressman and Senator who voted to reject the electoral college vote submissions of Arizona and Pennsylvania.”

      5:12 PM BB:

      BOOM: Kinzinger says days after Jan. 6, [1/11/21] Republican lawmakers requested pardons as Trump was on his way out the door.

      Five days after attack on Capitol, pardon requests come in from Rep. Mo Brooks, Matt Gaetz, Andy Biggs, Gohmert, Perry

  33. harpie says:

    5:17 KINZINGER The only reason to request a pardon is because you’ve done something wrong.
    Yields back.
    THOMPSON thanks witness
    5:18 KINZIGER closing
    Facts were irrelevant to TRUMP
    5:22 K yields back
    CHENEY closing

  34. Rugger9 says:

    The pardons question needed more development than a drive-by reference to Gaetz, which is what it sounded like to me. The email reference to other pardon requests was shown on the screen, but really the issues to be highlighted needed to be the corrupt intent and the Gaetz reference should be used as an example about just how depraved Individual-1 was in his choices.

    • bmaz says:

      Keep in mind that two of the Trump big lie cabal, Gosar and Biggs, were well known to have requested pardons. If they did, of course the others in the legislative cabal did too. None of that is particularly earth shattering. Since January 19, 2021.

      • Rugger9 says:

        It might be worth an hour of hearing time to dig into what sounds like a quid pro quo, especially considering the continued dangling of pardons at the last rally by Individual-1 if he gets the chance to grant them again.

    • Arice says:

      To me bringing in Gaetz’s request for a pardon was almost a cinematic device. Remember, they showed video of Gaetz earlier in the hearing today and prior days, doing heavy lifting for Trump. Then, as things fall apart, Gaetz asks for the quid pro quo he justifiably thinks would be part of the deal. That shows corruption all around but, also, the fact that Trump did NOT give his own lackey a pardon on the way out also paints Trump as a disloyal shitbag.

      I’m guessing none of that comes as a surprise to most of us. But we’re not really the audience of this hearing.

    • BobCon says:

      Joel Grenberg’s sentencing was postponed again, until August this time.

      I am guessing there is a shoe to drop.

        • BobCon says:

          To be cautious, I don’t know that it’s Stone and pardon related. It could be weirdo local political corruption, it could be just to keep Gaetz guessing, it could be some completely private business corruption. But it’s worth keeping an eye on.

  35. harpie says:

    5:22 CHENEY closing
    It can be hard to accept that President Trump abused your trust., but he did.
    5:24 THOMPSON closing
    We will show how TRUMP tapped into violence, which had become his last option.
    5:29 adjourned

    • harpie says:

      Or, as Marcy tweets:
      5:30 PM · Jun 23, 2022

      The hearing ends with the invitation to an insurrection.

      [Screenshot of TRUMP’s 12/19/20 – 1:42 AM EST tweet:]

      “Be there, will be wild!”

      For those who haven’t followed criminal cases, it’s really hard to overstate the power of this tweet.

      Sometimes I feel like having a complete list of the responses from organizers/inciters to this tweet in the first 12 hours would be interesting to see.

  36. Rugger9 says:

    Well, I for one am glad the original GOP jackals were here in the committee room. This comes across as a thoughtful and measured investigation as opposed to say any of the multiple Benghazi ones.

    The NYT is still trying to bothsides this topic. Dan Froomkin did a good writeup, worth reading in full. It’s clear that the new honcho (Joe Khan) is just as bad as Dean Baquet at grasping what the press is supposed to be doing.

    • BobCon says:

      I would bet that the long, long delay in naming Baquet’s successor was so that AG Sulzberger could extract promises not to change course.

      Although I pretty strongly suspect that AG is so weak and bad at running things that he was mostly waiting for other people at the paper to tell him Kahn was the best they were going to get.

      • DrDoom says:

        AG is awful, and my reasons for reading the NYT are mostly confined to the contributions of 3 columnists: Krugman, Blow, and Bouie, in order of seniority. I believe AG pulls for TFG because he increases readership. I am still appalled by the “news judgment” that led to sitting on the story about GOP leadership reversing course to line up behind TFG for over a year. Freedom of the press implies a reciprocal obligation to keep the public informed. So, we the public were denied McCarthy’s initial response to January 6 and how he was brought back on the GQP reservation, but instead fed endless stories exploring the hurt feelings of a few random aggrieved white guys in flyover country.

  37. Makeitso says:

    “Just say it was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republican congressmen.”

    This is how former acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue said former President Donald Trump responded when then-acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen told him that the Justice Department “can’t and won’t snap its fingers and change the outcome of the election.”CNN

    I am a-gonna go out on a limb and say that might indicate corrupt intent…

    • bmaz says:

      That limb still has to prove intent, and it is FAR harder in a live trial than you think. By itself, it does not “prove” shit.

        • bmaz says:

          If you do not understand the necessity of proving ALL elements of a crime, maybe this subject is not for you.

        • Arice says:

          Wouldn’t proving the intent to overthrow the election be really obvious? Trump said he was trying to stop Biden from becoming office right from the stage on January 6. He told his own VP to go do it.

        • bmaz says:

          It can be defended. Will the defense be successful? Who knows, but, again, it is all a LOT different when there is a competent defense made. This is all one sided and not adversarial yet. You would be surprised how quickly the ground can shift with an engaged and competent defense in court. All I am saying is all the “oh doesn’t this, or doesn’t that, prove it all!”, is nonsense. See where it goes, don’t get ahead of it.

        • Peterr says:

          Making a competent defense can make a great deal of difference. Of course, that requires selecting a competent attorney and being brutally honest with them in sharing every element of whatever you have been charged with.

          I can’t see Trump being that honest with a lawyer, and given Trump’s history of choosing lawyers, I have grave doubts that he’d get a competent one.


          Trump gets pissed off if his lawyer writes things down, for crying out loud, and writing things down is one of the marks of a competent lawyer.

        • bmaz says:

          If he will pay them, they will work for him. The guaranteed pay and listening and shutting up is the problem. And that is a real problem.

        • Peterr says:

          Your use of the word “guaranteed” is a bit aspirational, once you remember that Trump’s track record of paying those who work for him is . . . less than stellar.

          And yes, getting Trump to listen to and accept his attorney’s advice is problem one, and problem two is shutting up about everything.

        • bmaz says:

          Oh no, crim defense attys often ask for a yuge non-refundable retainer that must be supplemented if it gets at a certain level. And they do, because once you are on as atty of record, you might not get easily off. But there are serious attys, not freak show ones, that will do it. Trump has that much money (irrespective of how much else he really has).

        • bmaz says:

          Oh I dunno about that. Magic 8 Ball says “questionable”. Only noting that they are out there if you will pay for them.

          PS: That may be a bad Magic 8 Ball answer. Maybe should be “outback good”.

        • hollywood says:

          I hear you but I agree with Professor Hasen: “Although a Trump prosecution is far from certain to succeed, too much focus has been put on the risks of prosecuting him and too little on the risks of not doing so. The consequences of a failure to act for the future of democratic elections are enormous.”

        • bmaz says:

          Oh, I know Rick and agree with him. I just want to keep people’s expectations in check. I’d be fine, even happy, with Trump being charged with whatever DOJ deems appropriate. I am not sure they will, and if they do, just pointing out that he is theoretically defensible.

        • Rayne says:

          It would be nice if you, as a criminal lawyer, wrote a post about the points you see which you believe in your experience federal prosecutors must overcome to obtain not only an indictment but a conviction.

          Otherwise it’s just demoralization rather than edification.

        • bmaz says:

          I do not know what DOJ is contemplating, so I cannot do that. The DOJ charging guidelines speak for themselves and prosecutorial discretion is what it is. What is worse, speaking some truth about the bigger situation, or a bunch of yahoos screaming that Trump is as good as convicted already. I’d say the latter.

        • Rayne says:

          There’s truth and then there’s demoralization. We have more than enough of the latter and not enough educating truth.

  38. PeterS says:

    I don’t usually watch true-crime documentaries, but I found the hearing riveting and the evidence of Trump’s corruption incontrovertible. The trouble is, as frequently mentioned, the people who need to see this evidence weren’t watching.

    So perhaps a different approach is needed to move the needle. Maybe the committee should issue a very public challenge to Trump: send your “best lawyer” to discuss with one of our professionals, on live TV, the evidence (sic) of widespread fraud in Georgia. Who could he possibly put forward?

    Invite Trump to a duel as it were, and wait for him to chicken out. I’m not being wholly serious, but it’s delicious to imagine Liz Cheney slapping Trump in the face with a glove.

      • punaise says:

        Take the last scam to Clark, shill
        And I’ll meet you at the prison
        You can be here by 6 January
        ‘Cause I’ve made your reservation

        • grennan says:

          Somewhere I’ve got a set of lyrics that were playing locally after Milwaukee Cty Sheriff David Clarke — one of tfg’s earliest backers — lost too many prisoners in too few years. Very sad and credible singing ‘and I don’t know if I’m ever coming home’.

  39. Savage Librarian says:

    Pardon Me

    Pardon me sir,
    did it ever occur
    to a real live churl,
    What could be harmful
    in hiding an armful
    of graft to squirrel?

    Pardon me if a transactional squeeze
    fogs up my goggles
    and buckles my knees,
    I’m simply drowned in the sound
    and the sight and the scent
    and the steal of a real live churl.

    Nothing can beat
    getting swept off your feet
    by a real live churl,
    Dreams of a punk
    don’t compare with the bunk
    of a real live churl,
    Churls were too churlish
    was once my belief,
    What a reversal and what a relief!
    I’ll take a federal tap
    and the blithering yap
    and the deal of a real live churl.

    “Real Live Girl” – Little Me Piano

    • Ginevra diBenci says:

      You resurrected one of my favorite words, Savage Librarian. If we ever needed facility with naming churls, it’s now. And it really does roll right off the tongue.

  40. Jenny says:

    My father is watching the hearings, he said to me, “This is a big history lesson in civics and proper protocol. At 92 years old, I never thought I would witness on January 6th, 2021, an attempted coup. Fortunately, it didn’t succeed.”

  41. mospeck says:

    J6 is going all in on the river card, and all-in-all, it’s a rather remarkable day! Also Charles Darwin just phoned in that he had the gall to ask — even though he’s dead now going on maybe a hundred and forty years. Here’s a truck stop instead of Saint Peters

  42. Rugger9 says:

    One other topic worth considering as part of the insurrection plans would be the roles played by semi-passive enablers. The one I’m specifically thinking of here is GSA Administrator Emily Murphy whose deliberate stonewalling of the transition prevented Biden’s team from sounding the alarm because they were locked out of the offices. She had ‘questions’, you see and couldn’t be certain who won…months after the election was called and by then Barr had already said there was no significant fraud. I’m sure she wasn’t alone in slow-walking the turnover which gave Individual-1 more time to plot with his minions. I don’t think it’s on the committee’s agenda, though.

    • rip says:

      Ah, yes. The GSA Administrator obstructing the transition. Amazing how many of these people had been inserted into the functions of the US government just to make it stop working. If that former guy had miraculously stolen the election, would they have greased the wheels to make everything work better than ever?

      I also wonder about many other comrades that may have obtained civil service jobs during that former guy’s stint that are now sitting at desks or in operational roles that could be called up to cause problems. Color me paranoid (purple?)

      • Rugger9 says:

        The Bushies did a lot of burrowing too as a matter of policy. That’s why with the GOP one has to presume any holdover is suspect until proven otherwise. All non-believers have been purged to where in the modern GQP only unrepentant MAGAs are allowed.

      • grennan says:

        You’re not paranoid at all. That administration tried multiple ways to undermine the civil service overtly and covertly to replace as many as possible with appointees.

        This was a problem in the early days of covid, at the CDC, but started almost immediately in 2017.

        Woodward’s earliest book about the 2016 -2020 administration said that tfg had expected the White House was going to come pre-stocked with people and that it would be turnkey to run. That whole family knew less about governance that reasonably competent 7th graders.

        • Ginevra diBenci says:

          The quickest way to make the federal government small enough to drown in a bathtub? Arguably, it’s to make it so deliberately and manifestly incompetent that the public loses all faith in governmental solutions (while continuing to pay taxes that get redistributed to the wealthy).

          This has been the GOP mission for much longer than Trump’s administration, which admittedly had natural advantages when it came to incompetence.

        • grennan says:

          We in WI have been living though the demonstration project to demonize the civil service and slough off the competent employees since 2010 when Scott Walker was elected governor.

          If you rile up voters about parasitical civil servants (and teachers!) getting outrageous pay and better benefits, then corporate interests and worse can take advantage of, say, nobody at DNR noticing your large hog farm is too close to Lake Superior.

          (Or in Florida, remind a real estate developer that a permit allowed it to cut 14 mangrove trees, not 1,444.)

  43. skua says:

    Thanks to those who shone bright on this thread.
    Harpie – your telegram-style reporting left enough room for discursive minds.
    bmaz – your cold water jet makes the numbers at the silly covid-seer’s aggregated-weighted-poll-results website non-shocking.
    All the comedians – stop it guys, you’re killing me.

  44. Ewan says:

    Is there a list of the guests at each public hearing, and did someone find out why they were invited? It is I think a way for the committee to add additional support in a subtext (that’s the usual reason). Some of the people sitting in the first row you could recognise from the videos in the previous hearings, and you understood who they are. But this time it is less clear perhaps.

  45. hollywood says:

    It seems the focus should be on Clark, Giuliani and Eastman. They have documented lies to defend. Would any or all of them flip? Are they willing to do time hoping Trump wins in 2024 and then pardons them? I doubt it. Hello, crime-fraud exception to the attorney-client privilege.

Comments are closed.