Death by Tweet: “User Attribution Is Important”

Donald Trump nearly killed his Vice President by tweet — the tweet he sent at 2:24PM on January 6, 2021.

111. At 2:24 p.m., after advisors had left the Defendant alone in his dining room, the Defendant issued a Tweet intended to further delay and obstruct the certification: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”

112. One minute later, at 2:25 p.m., the United States Secret Service was forced to evacuate the Vice President to a secure location.

113. At the Capitol, throughout the afternoon, members of the crowd chanted, “Hang Mike Pence!”; “Where is Pence? Bring him out!”; and “Traitor Pence!”

114. The Defendant repeatedly refused to approve a message directing rioters to leave the Capitol, as urged by his most senior advisors-including the White House Counsel, a Deputy White House Counsel, the Chief of Staff, a Deputy Chief of Staff, and a Senior Advisor.

As the indictment tells it, at the time Trump sent his potentially lethal tweet, inciting the mob bearing down on Mike Pence, Pence’s spouse, and daughter, Donald Trump was alone in his dining room with the murder weapon: an unknown phone, and his Twitter account.

But when DOJ served a warrant on Twitter for Trump’s Twitter account on January 17, they couldn’t be sure who was holding the murder weapon. They also wouldn’t know whether triggering the murder weapon was coordinated with other events.

That explains why, as Thomas Windom described in a February 9 hearing, metadata from Trump’s Twitter account showing any other account associated with his own may have been just as important for the investigation as any DMs obtained with the warrant.

MR. HOLTZBLATT: Well, Your Honor, we don’t — the issue, Your Honor — there isn’t a category of “associated account information”; that’s not information that Twitter stores.

What we are doing right now is manually attempting to ascertain links between accounts. But the ascertainment of links between accounts on the basis of machine, cookie, IP address, email address, or other account or device identifier is not information that Twitter possesses, it would be information that Twitter needs to create. So that’s the reason why we had not previously produced it because it’s not a category of information that we actually possess.


MR. WINDOM: It is, as explained more fully in the warrant — but for these purposes, it is a useful tool in identifying what other accounts are being used by the same user or by the same device that has access to the account is oftentimes in any number of cases, user attribution is important. And if there are other accounts that a user is using, that is very important to the government’s investigation.


MR. HOLTZBLATT: That’s right. If the records — if the linkage between accounts, which is what we understand this category to be referring to, is not itself a piece of information that we keep, then it’s not a business record that we would ordinarily produce.

What I understand the government to be asking is for us to analyze our data, as opposed to produce existing data. And we are trying to work with the government in that respect, but that is the reason that it is not something that — that is a different category of information. [my emphasis]

By that point, DOJ would have had Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony describing what she saw sitting outside Trump’s dining room door (and once, going in to pass off Mark Meadows’ phone). They would have had two grand jury appearances from the two Pats, Cipollone and Philbin, the White House Counsel and Deputy Counsel described in the passage. They would have had at least one interview with Eric Herschmann — the Senior Advisor trying to calm him down.

They did not yet have privilege waived testimony from the Chief of Staff — Mark Meadows — or the Deputy Chief of Staff — Dan Scavino.

And Dan Scavino was the most likely other person to know about that near murder by tweet, because Dan Scavino was in his position, the Deputy Chief of Staff, first and foremost because he had masterminded Trump’s own mastery of Twitter going back to 2016.

So one thing DOJ needed to know before they conducted an interview that took place after Beryl Howell rejected yet another frivolous Executive Privilege claim in March was how Dan Scavino accessed Trump’s Twitter account when he did, from what device.

Who else had access to Trump’s Twitter account, one part of the murder weapon?

When DOJ asked Twitter to go back and figure out which other accounts shared IP addresses, cookies, or other device identifier with Trump’s Twitter account, they were asking for a list of other people (or at least clues to identify those people) who might be holding that murder weapon on January 6, Trump’s Twitter account, instead of Donald Trump.

Before Dan Scavino told the grand jury that he wasn’t in the room when that tweet was sent, as he must have, DOJ would have needed a better idea whether Scavino sent the tweet, to know whether he was telling the truth once he did sit for a privilege waived interview.

But they were also asking for a very specific clue about the other part of that murder weapon: some way to identify the phone from which the potentially deadly tweet was sent. Identifying which phone was alone in the room with Donald Trump on January 6 would also identify which phone to go seize to learn who else Trump was communicating with when he was sitting alone in his dining room as he watched his supporters assault the Capitol. Identifying which phone was alone in the room with Donald Trump on January 6 would help to fill the gap in communications that the January 6 Committee never completely filled.

And not just that phone.

Obtaining the associations to Trump’s Twitter account would also help explain one of the most enduring mysteries about January 6: What happened between the time Sidney Powell left after a screaming meeting on December 18 and the time Trump announced the rally in the early hours of December 19, leading thousands of his most rabid followers to start planning to come to DC?

87. On December 19, 2020, after cultivating widespread anger and resentment for weeks with his knowingly false claims of election fraud, the Defendant urged his supporters to travel to Washington on the day of the certification proceeding, tweeting, “Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!” Throughout late December, he repeatedly urged his supporters to come to Washington for January 6.

That December 19 tweet, and the phone it was sent from, was another kind of murder weapon, the shot that would set off the entire riot. And to figure out who was wielding it, the circumstances in which it went off, investigators would work backwards from where it was stored, on Twitter.

They would want to know, too, how Ali Alexander and Alex Jones copped on so quickly — whether any of the participants in the DM lists via which Stop the Steal was coordinated had a user who also had access to Trump’s Twitter account.

Even before Trump became President, his communication habits made it very difficult to pin down his actions. Roger Stone, for example, would call Trump during the 2016 election on Trump’s cell, his Trump Tower phone, two work phones, via three different assistants, and Keith Schiller. And Stone often used other people’s phones to call on.

Trump still has a habit of using other people’s phones. The stolen documents indictment reflects Molly Michael telling Walt Nauta that Trump had had her phone. Several of Trump’s aides were asked by J6C whether Trump ever used their phones; several probably didn’t tell the truth in response.

But much of execution of January 6 went through the single most stable means of communication Donald Trump had: his Twitter account. And to attribute any actions that happened using Trump’s Twitter account, DOJ needed as much data as possible about who else used it and in what circumstances.

User attribution is important. Especially with a guy who has the ability to murder by tweet.

102 replies
  1. Yogarhythms says:

    OMG. Yesssss. True crime by Tweet as only Dr Wheeler’s mind can map.
    Thank you so much for all you do. PS is it time for a picture with a four legged family member yet?

  2. drhester says:

    People (not here at EW) keep calling him dumb and/or demented. He’s neither.

    Trump still has a habit of using other people’s phones. The stolen documents indictment reflects Molly Michael telling Walt Nauta that Trump had had her phone. Several of Trump’s aides were asked by J6C whether Trump ever used their phones; several probably didn’t tell the truth in response.

    He’s very sly and self-preserving.

    • nord dakota says:

      Don’t forget deceitful, which I think was a word used in the initial Trump-Naupta indictment.

        • drhester says:

          Actually I think he’s simply and truly amoral. His sole motivation is narcissistic. The evil and malevolence are imho byproducts. He has the conscience of a true sociopath… that is.. none.

          • imarover44181962 says:

            Trump is an amoral, pitiless monster. He continues to openly foment a violent insurrection against the government of the United States of America and its people. Trump is openly encouraging his mob to violently attack federal law enforcement. He is floating the offer of pardons, not only to those who have already been convicted, but also for those who are under investigation for committing crimes against the United States on his behalf as well as those who are being encouraged to do so in the future.
            If Trump is not held to account for the January 6th insurrection (among his multiple other crimes against the United States) and is therefore allowed to run for president again, he will destroy this country and we will deserve the chaos that is certain to be unleashed. If he manages to cheat his way to “victory,” the result domestically will be waves of revenge and retribution in the form of an American Reign of Terror.

      • BobBobCon says:

        He’s not as cunning as he used to be, but he has years of practice and a lot of residual instincts.

        He’s slipping — his mishandling of the documents was a huge unforced error, and his choice of lawyers is hurting him. But he’s not out if it, and he still takes advantage of people who think they’re smarter than him, but stupidly play games by his rules. Chris Licht is a notable example.

  3. mike stone says:

    I am guessing that Trump is lazy and does not like to enter a password every time he wants to use his phone. He probably has facial recognition capability so that he can pick up phone and immediately use it. I would think the phone would retain a record each time he used facial recognition with a time and data stamp.

    The geolocation capability may or may not be useful. First, I am not sure it has the capability of the user’s location with enough certainty to differentiate from others that were nearby. Also, I wonder if the secret service would allow the geolocation capability to be active on the President’s phone for obvious reasons.

    [Welcome back to emptywheel. Please use the same username and email address each time you comment so that community members get to know you. “mike stone” is your second user name; you’ve commented 26 times as “Mike Stone.” The letter case *does* make a difference, especially when you have surely run into other persons who share the same fairly common name. Thanks. /~Rayne]

  4. Capemaydave says:

    I think the DoJ may have hit the bullseye with this data…obviously we won’t know until later but Jack Smith sure does.

    Your framing is perfect: murder weapon.

    • BeanOpenMind says:

      No murder though. Too easy for others to dismiss this on that basis. Valid qualifiers: “attempted” and “potential”.

      • Peterr says:

        The family of Ashley Babbit might disagree, as well as a number of the families of late Capitol Police officers.

        People died as a direct result of the riot Trump encouraged and supported.

        • Capemaydave says:

          yes, that was my thought…people were killed that day…the tweets were part of that…how willfully connected remains to be proven

          gotta be a lot of increasingly nervous people in Trump’s orbit

        • nord dakota says:

          Well, then there’s homicide that happens in the course of a felony, although I don’t know of anyone ever having been prosecuted when they weren’t physically on the scene but a party to a felony can be convicted of murder just because the cops or the store owner shot and killed his accomplice.

          DJT may never appreciate how much trouble the SS saved him by not letting him go to the Capitol.

  5. Unabogie says:

    Considering the effort Xitter put in to tip Trump off that the Feds were after his Twitter DMs, a couple of questions arise:

    1. Has Xitter tipped off other criminals after the DOJ came looking for them?
    2. Did Xitter tip Trump off anyway? Might we see an effort to delete account activity between the time the DOJ went to court and the time Xitter handed over the data?

  6. newbroom says:

    I have always imagined that fellow sick puppy Stephen Miller was doing lots of the writing. I can also imagine he and Steve Bannon appearing from behind a bookcase that day, in the dining room, to share the spectacle with Dumbo.

    • P’villain says:

      Miller was on my radar before the Trump Administration even began. Very disappointed not to see his name (even by inference) appearing in any indictments thus far, because there’s no way his nose is clean.

  7. dadidoc1 says:

    As I was reading this post, the voice of Will Lyman from Frontline took over. Great post. I have no idea how your voice sounds, but Mr. Lyman did a great job of filling in.

  8. GeeSizzle says:

    I keep telling people, it’s not OK to rationalize driving a Tesla, because you are at best unwittingly supporting Musk. He is part of the problem, and is protecting and supporting Trump, which means he is actively attacking our system of government. I just thank my lucky stars every day that he was not born in this country, otherwise, we would likely be suffering under his brand of authoritarianism as President one day, because SO many people are still clueless as to how dangerous he is. There are at least better options for cars, even if there is not yet a better option for Xitter. Just say no to Musk. Musk stinks worse than Drakkar.

    • algebraist says:

      That’s a horseshit series of false equivalencies. False introduction where you equate driving a car to supporting the actions of the CEO in a different business entirely. You make a statement based on zero evidence about Musk protecting Trump and then moved straight from that to “slippery slope” fallacy with a hint of “no true scotsman”.

      I am not a mod here, nor do I play one on tv but quit wasting our time with the fact you’ve conflated your massive hatred for one person into something bigger. I don’t care for Elon as a person but his companies are more than just him. If I wanted to play the same dishonest argument shit, i’d be blaming YOU for the decay of Western Society.

      See how that works?

      • harpie says:

        YOU are CORRECT!
        YOU are “NOT a mod here.”
        So YOU should “quit wasting OUR time”
        and fuck off with your arrogant bullshit “argument.”

  9. Sshychka says:

    This site regularly points out when a person making a comment used an incorrect or misleading “name.” Why wouldn’t Twitter have the same capacity?

    • PeteT0323 says:

      Trust me – they must. I just came off a 12 hour time-out by Xitter based on a factually correct – if not unflattering response – to a retweet of a “Trump is strong and fit message” from Xeorge Conway where I referenced Trump’s girth and he as a walking heart attack waiting to happen and did NOT use Trump’s name. I said the orange one and got popped.

      The time out happened within a second of sending the post.

      Yeah – deleted the post because I want to retain control of when I dump Elmo’s Xitter. No Tesla for me. Nor Tesla roof or Powerwall for me either. Soon – no Xitter for me, but on my terms.

      • bmaz says:

        Lol, trust me, a 12 hour time out is nothing. But before you leave twitter, I’d wait for something better, and there is not yet anything close. “Yet”.

        • rattlemullet says:

          Not being a Twitter user I’m curious what does twitter provide that no other social media can emulate? Is it community built over time with ease of communication? Thanks.

          • Baltimark says:

            I would suggest that it was and to a lesser extent still is a stool supported by three legs:
            1. the commenters and implicit subcommunities of interest
            2. ease of use — no manual required
            3. specific features/capabilities

            No other option is presently at parity on all three of these. What is stopping them from getting there? Well, I think one or two of the alternatives will likely get somewhere in the neighborhood eventually, but meanwhile, I would say the issues are:

            1.ETHOS: Mastadon is Twitter-like but its ethos is still substantially different. Its core evangelists and developers don’t necessarily WANT to be “the new Twitter,” per se, though this is vast oversimplification.

            2. SCALABILITY: it’s sometimes said that more or less any coder could “build a Twitter.” This is true to a degree: the feature set and a database to support it are pretty darn simple. I’m sure a number of EmptyWheel readers, including me, could code a Twitter clone that technically mimics Twitter functionality for a fee thousand users. But … global massive scalability, including for content search, DDOS supression, etc., starts to get … not so easy at all.

            3. PROFIT MODEL: Twitter never was and surely is not now amply profitable. For for-profit players like Meta, immediately replicating Twitter arguably means immedistely replicating financial losses, hence presumably the experimentation with somewhat different feature sets.

            Bluesky and Threads have the opportunity to be the next microblogging U2 or Zep or Coldplay, depending on your generstional music analogues. Mastadon is more Zappa, Kate Bush, Ween, or Animal Collective — eccentrics in a niche, but with a smaller yet still formidable following. Post and Tribel are ultra niche. And Spoutible is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

            • pleitter says:

              Before Elon, Emptywheel, MuellerSheWrote, and Teri_Kanefield were the first 3 twitter feeds I checked every day. All three still have Twitter accounts and all added Mastodon accounts. Teri mostly does her daily stuff on Mastodon & then posts on Twitter when her daily insights have morphed into a blog article on her website. I opened a Mastodon account so I can keep up with Teri day-to-day, but right now I still use Twitter as my go-to place to keep up with Marcy, Alison, & others that I follow.

          • zscoreUSA says:

            One good function of Twitter is that it is great for doing research and finding timestamps of when events occurred. It’s relatively easy to search using the Advanced search features. And with the vast amount of people who use it, almost every news event gets commented on, even minor events that may not appear important at first, but gain more relevance in context at a later date.

    • engprog733 says:

      I’ll add to this that the entire description from the hearing on what they do and do not keep sounds suspicious on its face, semantic at best, and outright lying as a likely reality. The idea that they dont have things like ip address and other factors that they can and already do correlate with shared location strikes me as bonkers for an organization who’s primary revenue stream is delivering targeted advertisement. The types of associations they are saying they don’t have seem to me like the exact types of information an org with their business model would be necessity have methods for and results from.

      For example, the json description of a tweet object ( – literally the information packaged with a tweet) contains among other things:

      A coordinates field
      a place field (alongside tools to process things about that location – of which only places near it is made visible in the api)
      a source (e.g., what platform the tweet was created on)

      Beyond that there are various obviously processed attributes (e.g., withheld_in_countries or scopes) that are indicative of underlying systems to process the semantics and context of a tweet and embed decisions into it based on data not in the tweet.

      That description, in court about a search warrant, to me is just wildly un-credible a priori to the obvious delay efforts

  10. Hoping4better_times says:

    IANAL. Did trump himself send a 2:24pm tweet on January 6, “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution?” The mob had been chanting “hang Mike Pence” on TV screens. Of course, the tweet endangered Mike Pence. Is that “incitement” in the legal sense?

    • SteveBev says:

      I believe the sequence is the tweet is sent 2:24

      The J6 committee showed video of a man using a megaphone quoting the tweet. It then shows another man using a megaphone and chanting, “Bring out Pence!”

      The video then shows a crowd of mobsters chanting “Hang Mike Pence” and a picture of a gallows.

      It was then argued that Trump expressed approval of the crowd reaction to Meadows, who was in the dining room and then shortly afterwards related this to Hutchinson, according to her.

      If Meadows have evidence it would be strong evidence of Trumps intent.

      Without Meadow’s evidence it would be a matter of inferring Trumps intent from all the proven surrounding circumstances – including eg his actions of targeting people publicly which resulted in intimidation and threats of violence being visited upon them, and his prior menacing of Pence with the threat to publicly criticise him, etc etc

      But Smith doesn’t need to prove incitement, it is sufficient for his purpose to show that Trump relied on the violence to further his obstructive ends, and did nothing to quell it even though he had the means and duty to do so but failed to take timely steps.

  11. Fancy Chicken says:

    Reading that tweet it’s really difficult to get a handle on who wrote it although I believe it might show it was Scavino. There is the idiosyncratic capitalization that smacks of Trump, but everything is spelled correctly, the punctuation is correct and the grammar is tight which leads me to believe it was Scavino making a Trump looking tweet.

    Because you can’t figure out who composed the tweet by examination illustrates the importance of nailing down associated accounts, phone numbers and ip addresses.

    IIRC there were a number of articles post Jan 6 about Scavino’s presence on Trump friendly boards promoting Jan 6 ahead of time. If Trump isn’t the author, as I said my money is on Scavino, I very much hope his feet get held to the fire as he was instrumental in drumming up election lies and attendance for the 6th.

    [Comment originally posted in on 2023/08/16 at 3:53 pm by user Fancy Chicken. /~Rayne]

    • Ravenous hoarde says:

      “ In a 2019 report Politico noted that Scavino, who “met Trump as a 16-year-old golf caddie and has spent much of his adult life by his side,” monitors r/The_Donald closely:

      Asked directly whether Scavino helps write his tweets, Trump said, “Generally, I’ll do my tweets myself,” but he allowed that his aide helps shape his missives “on occasion.”

      Scavino — who regularly monitors Reddit, with a particular focus on the pro-Trump /r/The_Donald channel — has helped craft some of Trump’s most memorable social media moments.

      Even so, Scavino has developed a following among tech-savvy Trump supporters online, especially in the pro-Trump corners of Reddit, where his tweets and videos often catch fire.”

      I didn’t know Scavino was a Trump henchman for such a long time. Trump seems to like his lackeys plucked from obscurity like Nauta to help induce fealty.

      [Comment originally posted in on 2023/08/17 at 09:03 am by user Ravenous hoarde in reply to a duplicate of above comment by Fancy Chicken. Used my moderator’s super powers to surgically remove and re-implant Fancy Chicken’s original comment in one thread and Ravenous hoarde’s reply to a duplicate comment, now placed in the intended thread. Let’s try to avoid this much surgery in the future. /~Rayne]

      • misnomer bjet says:

        I don’t know the legal significance of the difference between the sort of attribution that can be ascertained from Trump having control over & responsibility for words published through his account, versus the kind of attribution that identifies him as the one who wrote & published the words in any particular tweets.

        Maybe something like the difference between an unlicensed teetotaler riding shotgun in a car he owns, and his driver, to whom he’s handed the keys, who runs a red light & mangles a bus load of Capitol Police, even if they switch seats before first responders arrive.

        But Jack Smith’s pursuit of evidence that could clarify what should be attributed to whom, does not strike me as singularly concerned with nailing the tool left in the driver seat.

  12. RockyGirl says:

    This is almost certainly off-topic but I don’t know if another way/place to ask or bring this up. I would be very interested to know your reaction to the likes of Michael Shellenberger (the lesser evil twin of Matt Taibbi), re posts such as this one

    I do not subscribe but my spouse does, and I occasionally read as much as I can get from his free screeds. He always seems to be totally wrong about most everything but I would really appreciate any thoughts that folks here might have, either on this thread or another.

    Many thanks – RockyGirl

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      For starters, delete from the link everything from the question mark on back. It’s tracking information.

      Beyond that, the full title of that piece tells you what you need to know, and why you needn’t read the rest of it. Donald Trump and his pet GOP are at war with democracy, not the Democrats.

      • RockyGirl says:

        Thanks for the hint re the link – I wondered about that.

        But more worrisome is the dreck threat this guy puts out and the fact that hundreds (thousands?) believe that shit. First amendment and all that but jeez that crap is vile

          • BRUCE F COLE says:

            That crew is dishonest as hell. Equating Clinton’s using her own server for SoS coms (and lowest classified doc exposure), along with Stacey Abrams’ recount efforts with Trump’s attempted overthrow of the US govt is, first and foremost, transparently dishonest.

            If your spouse wants a clear-headed, hard-left approach to “corporate liberals,” Thom Hartmann had a good piece up on his site yesterday.

        • GeeSizzle says:

          My condolences that you must endure a spouse that subscribes to that tripe. “Totally wrong about most everything” was a good way to sum it up. And imagine, Shellenberger lives in Berkeley. I wonder if he goes on tirades to the locals there about what a genius he is and how they don’t get it. Oy…

    • ButteredToast says:

      Anyone who claims (like Shellenberger) that “Trump’s election denialism and manipulations, while bad, were not qualitatively different from the behaviors of Hillary Clinton, Stacey Abrams, and former Democratic National Committee Chairperson Debbie Wasserman Schultz” is either wildly ignorant or writing in bad faith (or both).

  13. pdaly says:

    Speaking of other phones and timelines, right after Trump tweeted (2:24pm 1/6/21) about Mike Pence, Trump called Mike Lee/Tuberville at the lockdown Capitol (2:26pm 1/6/21).

    Apparently, Trump used a WH phone (landline vs. WH work cell phone), but the call does not appear in the official WH internal presidential call log nor the presidential daily diary.

    Similarly, Kevin McCarthy’s franctic 1/6/21 call from the breached Capitol to Trump at the WH (the call which was patched through by Molly Michael– she looked inconvenienced and reluctant while admitting this during her J6C interview), does not show up in the office WH call log.

    This 2022 Guardian article reviews the possibility that the call logs were tampered with. It also tosses out another possibility that I was not aware of:

    “The only instance where a call might not be reflected on the unclassified presidential call log, the officials said, would be if the call was classified, which would seem to be unlikely in the case of the call to Lee. The absence of Trump’s call to Lee suggests a serious breach in protocol and possible manipulation, the officials said.”

    I also wonder if the cell companies prevent caller ID spoofing of a WH call number? Else what about a burner phone to explain the missing log?

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      Was this the same time period where Trump “lost” the staff secretary responsible, among other things, for maintaining these logs?

      • pdaly says:

        I believe so.
        From the Guardian article above:

        “And by the time of January 6, two former Trump White House officials said, there was scope for political interference in records preservation, with no White House staff secretary formally appointed after Derek Lyons’ departure on 18 December.”

        But I got the impression the WH call logs are automated, so I assume even with too few staff members, the system would retain information of any call with a WH landline or WH work cellphone, unless someone actively removed the call information from the system.

      • SteveBev says:

        I know you know the answer to this

        “ The chaotic nature of the Trump administration’s final days may also prove an issue: there was no formal White House staff secretary appointed to monitor and file documents reviewed by Trump after the departure of former staff secretary Derek Lyons on 18 December 2020.”

        Is it just a coincidence that the date of the lost secretary departure is also the date that Sydney Powelll almost sort of got made a special counsel.

        On 15 Dec 2020 it was reported he would leave by the end of the month, but he was gone within days.

          • pdaly says:

            It think it was a coincidence. Sidney Powell/Byrne/Mike Flynn/Emily Newman arrived at the WH Friday evening 12/18/20 without an invitation/appointment. Powell seemed to know that Friday 12/18/20 was Lyons’ last day turning to him at some point by way of dismissive retort and saying ‘Do you even work here anymore?’ (to which Lyons replied ‘Well, I guess I am here at least until midnight.’)

  14. surfer2099 says:

    Ari Melber on MSNBC is showing video footage of Roger Stone dictating a memo to an aide about the Fake Elector’s scheme on November 5th, 2 days before the election.

    • N.E. Brigand says:

      Nov. 5, 2020 was two days after the election but two days before major media outlets called the election.

    • Purple Martin says:

      Nov 5th was two days after the Nov 3rd, 2020 election. But it was two days before the race had been called for Biden (though it was seeming pretty sure by then).

      And the rat-fucker’s gist was, two days before the Trump loss, schemes to pressure state legislatures to overturn state election-counting decisions.

      • Ginevra diBenci says:

        More interesting to me was the documentarian’s claim to have footage of Stone having a “meltdown” when he realized Trump wasn’t going to pardon him (again), presumably for his election-ratfucking efforts.

        While I keep waiting to see the other shoe drop regarding Roger Stone, I don’t think this is it. Essentially he’s saying “Let’s just say we won and give it to state legislatures.” Which is no different (if earlier) than the myriad later voices saying the same. And it’s two days *after* the election date.

        It seems to me as if Stone had read Barton Gelman’s Atlantic piece speculating how the election could be stolen by Trump, and taken his cues from there. (I think it was Gelman; my Atlantic account ended in June.)

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          From the camera movement and his body language, Roger knew he was being recorded. That suggests he was modeling how to CYA, via the qualifying language he used, as well as laying out a pattern of criminal conduct for others to follow. He’s been at this since before most of us have been alive.

  15. Earstretcher says:

    This writeup explains quite well what information DOJ can glean from Trump Tweeter records:

    [Welcome back to emptywheel. Please use the same username AND EMAIL ADDRESS each time you comment so that community members get to know you. This is your third email address across four comments which the system marks as a different identity. We don’t even ask for a valid email address, just that you use the same one each time. Thanks. /~Rayne]

  16. SteveBev says:

    OT but CNN reporting a Texas woman arrested and charged with making death threats to Judge Chutkan on 5 August,

  17. Doctor My Eyes says:

    Could Meadows help himself with the charges in Georgia by providing useful information or testimony in the DC J6 trial, or would that be some kind of violation of one trial affecting a separate trial?

    Personally, I want that man to see jail time, even though that may not be fair to such a stupid person.

    Here’s hoping Stone is rogered.

  18. David F. Snyder says:

    Not practical, but since Trump borrows phones, there is a veritable briar patch of account accesses that could be investigated. It’d be cool to use it to bring down the entire cabal that created this mess, or at least the U.S. contingent of that cabal.

  19. silatserak says:

    I see the events on January 6th being called a riot. I thought that’s what happened when people are upset that their team didn’t win the Super Bowl. I thought January 6th was an insurrection. An attempt to overthrow the lawfully elected government of the United States.

  20. Roger Mexico says:

    Is the photo of a January 6th challenge coin? Who had them minted? This is a piece of the story I’ve missed.

    • pdaly says:

      I was wondering about the backstory to that image, too.
      A google image search turned up nothing except other unrelated coins and realistic photos of the Capitol.

      • Roger Mexico says:

        I tried a reverse image search as well and couldn’t turn up anything. It’s striking to me because it speaks to multiple issues about planning (depending on the timing), organization, and funding. The cost for a coin with full color on both sides would run ~$3-5 per depending on the size of the run. Typically the minimum run size is 50 but the total cost is basically the same up to 300 (economies of scale and they’ll start waiving set up and die fees).

    • SteveBev says:

      I found the image on a Facebook post on a Group

      “Inside the deadly Capitol insurrection”

      By a member of the group sharing the post from elsewhere which shows the image with comment:

      “ “Milkshake” gets five years per DOJ.

      Here’s a challenge coin that Proud Boy “Milkshake” made after Jan. 6, featuring a noose and a guillotine. “

      The image is also on Xitter in posts referring to proudboy milkshake

      “Milkshake” hailed from Arlington, and his local newspaper has a pretty full report of his plea and sentence
      Includes his behaviour after Jan 6

      “ In the following days, Scott made a “challenge coin” to celebrate the breach of the building, featuring a noose, guillotine and flames surrounding the Capitol, according to prosecutors.”

          • SteveBev says:


            Reports “Milkshake” co-defendant Proudboy Christopher Worrell is missing and his sentencing hearing for today is cancelled

            “ Court records indicate the sentencing for Christopher Worrell, 52, will be rescheduled before U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth. Andrea Aprea, spokesperson for the FBI, confirmed the search, but referred further questions to the U.S. Attorney’s Office. The U.S. Attorney’s Office did not immediately respond to inquiries.

            Court records indicate Worrell’s sentencing, which was set for Friday, is cancelled.

            The FBI did not respond as to how long Worrell has been missing or what prompted the search. Worrell has been on house arrest since he was released from custody November 2021 in Washington, D.C.”

            Earlier report stated
            “ Worrell’s trial took 10 days, with the verdict delivered by Lamberth on May 12.

            Worrell had pleaded not guilty to all the original charges. He faced 19 counts.

            Lamberth found Worrell guilty of seven counts:

            Obstruction of an official proceeding.
            Entering or remaining in a restricted building or grounds with a deadly or dangerous weapon.
            Disorderly or disruptive conduct in a restricted building or grounds with a deadly or dangerous weapon.
            Engaging in physical violence in a restricted building or grounds with a deadly or dangerous weapon.
            Act of physical violence in the U.S. Capitol grounds or buildings.
            Civil disorder.
            Assaulting, resisting or impeding certain officers using a dangerous weapon.”

            “ the Department of Justice on Sunday asked U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth to sentence Worrell to 14 years years in prison; three years of supervised release; $2,000 in restitution; a fine of up to $181,000; and $610 in mandatory special assessments, which are imposed on defendants convicted of federal crimes.”

            The government sentencing memorandum is here


            P9/48 “On January 7, 2021, Scott texted Worrell, apparently in reference to a dispute they were having with their local zone leadership, “Siege the chapter.” Trial Ex. 267-1. Worrell replied: “Much easier than the Capitol.” Id. Worrell later obtained from Scott a Proud Boys “challenge coin” to celebrate the Proud Boys’ breach of the building, featuring a noose, guillotine, and Image 3 – Trial Ex. 564.”

            The memorandum lays out in detail Worrell utter lack of remorse including multiple lies to the court, his exploitation of his notoriety to obtain tens of thousands of dollars, campaigning styling himself as a political prisoner, etc

            It is worth a read.

            [FYI – some blank line returns returns were removed to improve readability. /~Rayne]

            • SteveBev says:

              Thanks Rayne and apologies for not having properly edited the post in advance. I shall try to do better as I appreciate the work of the mods and I wish to avoid creating any additional burdens.

  21. flounder says:

    Imagine if it turns out that Trump was DM/texting with Fox Media people during the period he sent the murder tweet? Fox Media people who, as it happens, were under direct orders from their management to continue pushing “Stop the Steal” content on their programs as part of an audience retention scheme (and I’ll note that TV-addict Trump watched like 16 hours of Fox a day and often recorded their programs). Not that it’s guaranteed to work, but Trump can try to pin the insurrection and his delusion on the ongoing fraud being pushed by Rupert Murdoch et al.
    The way this works is Trump says: “I pushed vote fraud and stolen election as a 1st Amendment thing until mid November, but then Fox et al., which I view 16 hours a day, kept going on and on like it was really real, so I re-bought into the conspiracy theory. Rupert Murdoch is the ringleader here, I’m just a Fox-addled dupe like Ashli Babbitt!”

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