As Jordan Goes Down, Nancy Pelosi Mocks Republican Men Who Can’t Count

Jim Jordan just did worse on the first round of voting than Kevin McCarthy did in January: 200 votes compared to Hakeem Jeffries’ 212.

Jeffries has, by my count, now gotten the most votes to be Speaker in a dozen votes this year.

I’m mostly posting this as an open thread. But I have to say I was gleeful that minutes after I wished someone would interview Nancy Pelosi about how Republican boys can’t count, she said,

“I feel sad for the institution. I think it’s sad that they’re getting worse and worse.”

“They should take a lesson in mathematics and learn how to count.”

Update: Jordan has delayed a revote until tomorrow at 11.

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112 replies
  1. Savage Librarian says:

    Jack It

    Anyway they try to quack it,
    We know who will maniac it,
    Shellac or paperback it,
    It’s still all a MAGA racket.

    They escalate more and more din:
    Out of some damn pulpy gourd in
    carving with Damocles’ sword in
    serving up their deranged war din.

    Now it’s time to unpack it,
    No pity for that damn sad sack it
    tries to lift up, so they can stack it,
    But all they’ve got is a wanton jacket.

  2. Rugger_9 says:

    We’ll see when the next vote is. What’s the quorum requirement under the current House rules? I’d not put it past the GOP to hold a vote when the Ds go to dinner.

    • David F. Snyder says:

      I still think they won’t make it to 217. The Scalise supporters might cave, but the others won’t likely — they’ll lose their seats if they do and they know it. But they’ll probably lose them anyway, getting “primaried” if they don’t cave. The only question is if they want to preserve the Constitution or not. If they do, no Jordan. If they don’t, then we’re all fucked (including them) in the ensuing chaos.

      It is significant that the nominee can’t count votes and has never put a bill to the floor in all his time in the House. I hope there’s still enough Republicans to understand what a Jordan speakership truly means: the U.S. shall (at length) be “bound hand and foot and cast into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

      • Buzzkill Stickinthemud says:

        Mandatory invocation of Dave Allen…

        Preacher (Dave Allen): And there will be fire and brimstone, and a gnashing, a great gnashing of TEETH!
        Old Woman: But, but… I don’t have any teeth.
        Preacher: TEETH WILL BE PROVIDED!

        • HikaakiH says:

          A little explainer of why this was a great joke back when Dave was a big deal: the punch-line is a riff on the ubiquitous line attached to church social functions, “Tea will be provided.”
          [For those who want to dig into Dave Allen’s story, you will find a link to The Beatles.]

        • Buzzkill Stickinthemud says:

          Thanks. I did NOT know that.

          As a young man circa 1980 watching reruns of Dave Allen on Chicago’s WTTW (PBS), I thought that joke was hilarious, even without knowing the context.

          Dave Allen, Monty Python, The Two Ronnies, Dr. Who, Second City… Late night WTTW featuring BBC goodies was a treat for teenagers back then, provided parents didn’t get in the way. (I know, Second City was Canadian).

        • HikaakiH says:

          Circa 1990 some of my friends at college got along to one of his live shows. Most had sore abs and some had sore cheeks from all the laughing and smiling. He was just a great funny man. And I always appreciated the final line to his shows: “Goodnight and may your god go with you.”

  3. iamevets says:

    Preferred the original version of “White Men can’t Jump”, but eagerly awaiting the political version called “White Men can’t Count”. Starring Hakeem Jeffries and Jim Jordan. Lots of close games/votes and the movie just drags on while real life continues to happen elsewhere.

  4. punaise says:

    Mining Milton the Monster:

    Six drops of the essence of terror,
    Five drops of Gym-mister sauce.
    When the stirring’s done may I lick the gavel?
    Of course ha ha of course.
    Now for the tincture of cluelessness,
    But I must use only a touch,
    For without a touch of cluelessness,
    He might destroy the caucus!…Whoops, too much!

    It’s Jordan, your brand new sunk.

  5. dadidoc1 says:

    I’m surprised that the Republican leadership allowed this to come to a vote today without having enough votes to win locked down. This really makes them look bad.

    • Peterr says:

      After leaning on the holdouts all weekend, Jordan’s play was that by forcing a public vote, the fear of pressure on these recalcitrant members from their constituents would grow intolerable and they would fold rather than face his personal anger and the prospect of a brutal primary from the right.

      The second vote will be critical. Will these folks say “OK, I made my point by voting for XXX rather than Jordan, but now I’ll support the party,” or will others with doubts about Jordan backtrack from their first ballot vote and look elsewhere. If those “other” votes grow on the second ballot, Jordan is toast.

      But for things to truly shift away from Jordan, the GOP need a new candidate to emerge — and that will likely take them five or six ballots to coalesce around a single alternative. Even then, though, that person will face the same difficulty that McCarthy, Scalise, and Jordan did.

      • Rugger_9 says:

        It will be interesting to see how many of these 20 get primaried. Apparently 18 are in districts Biden won, and 13 of those voted for Jordan (possibly proving my theory that these reps fear the primary more than the general election).

        Are any filing dates past due for these 20?

        • ButteredToast says:

          According to Ballotpedia (https://ballotpedia.org/State_and_federal_candidate_filing_deadlines_for_2024), no filing deadlines have arrived yet. The earliest is Alabama (November 10), with Arkansas next (November 14). For this reason, I wouldn’t be surprised if Steve Womack (R-AR) caves.

          Of note, California’s filing deadline is relatively early (December 8). New York’s is “TBD,” and from what I understand their map is still up-in-the-air.

        • ButteredToast says:

          I’d been assuming that the further away the deadline, the more likely rightwing anger will abate and leave incumbent in better position. On the other hand, the earlier the deadline, the less time for a primary challenger to gather support.

        • BobBobCon says:

          The flip side is if you know you’re losing in a primary or general, your incentive to either tell Jordan to get lost or to just stay home goes up.

          If you’ve already been branded as ideologically impure because you once backed Ukraine funding or voted for the temporary funding bill, there isn’t a lot more room for the nuts to ramp up the pressure. Their incompetence counting votes is paralleled by their weakness in understanding how to mix carrots and sticks. All sticks is bad politics.

        • DaBunny42 says:

          Huh, so if Jordan successfully primaries these Rs in purple districts, that’s very likely to get Dems elected, right?

      • Purple Martin says:

        Ken Buck (R-CO, one of the 20 ‘No’ votes and widely expected to move to from the House of Representatives to the House of CNN shortly) just mentioned there are around 10 ‘Yes’ votes who promised Jorden their votes only on the first round, but said they don’t intend to vote for him on further rounds. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.

    • emptywheel says:

      They really really really can’t count votes. And Jordan was counting on bullying enough people to vote for him and I think that backfired.

      • Peterr says:

        Counting votes means trusting that when someone tells you how they will vote, they will actually do that. Counting votes means that when two folks come to an agreement, both trust that the other will hold to their end of the bargain.

        The GOP knows nothing about trust these days, even within their own ranks. In such circumstances, bullying (“Do it my way or else . . .”) is not exactly a winning play as it does nothing to increase trust. Trying to get an accurate count is damn near impossible when there is no trust. “Well sure, they *said* they would back me, but will they really follow through?”

        Note, please, that the lack of trust generally causes vote-counting problems only in cases where folks tell you they will support you. If they tell you they are opposed, to your face, you can probably trust them on that.

        • emptywheel says:

          It probably didn’t help that Jordan promised some appropriators he’d support funding the govt and Ukraine, but then ran to Axios and denied making any promises.

          The dude has never passed a bill. He’s literally incapable of delivering on any promises if he were trustworthy.

        • John B. says:

          That’s a really good point MT Wheel…the lack of fundraising prowess…if you look at past successful speakers the ability to raise funds and divvy them out is a trait that most good to great speakers share…Pelosi D- California…

        • Jim Luther says:

          “I never passed a bill in my 16 years in Congress” is a winning campaign slogan in parts of the country.

        • Peterr says:

          From Katie Edmondson at the NYT:

          A big bloc of Jordan hold-outs in the first round of voting are senior members of the Appropriations Committee, tasked with writing and passing the spending bills that fund the government. A New York Times analysis earlier this year showed that Jordan voted for spending bills just 16 percent of the time on average since 2011.

          These are the folks who know that even if no one else wants to get anything done, they *have* to. And voting for a speaker who doesn’t support their work is more than a bit difficult to do.

        • BobBobCon says:

          That’s true, and I’d be curious if that was also a sign of lobbyists conveying that they had the backs of Appropriations members.

          Raytheon does not want the next defense approps bill held up for dumb reasons, and a big highway contractor doesn’t want a $100 million overrun because of a six month delay.

          Jordan and Scalise may not be able to count and whip votes, but you can bet some big corporate interests can.

        • BobBobCon says:

          Pelosi kept her promises. That’s a big reason why all of the glee of political press about disarray with The Squad never came to pass.

          They cut deals on some issues, Pelosi upheld her end of the bargain, and that was that. It’s how a functional coalition operates.

        • pasha says:

          “It’s how a functional coalition operates.” Amen and amen. I’ve observed and been part of deliberative bodies for sixty years, and they all require trust. If someone gives you their word and then backs down your name is mud because you don’t know how to bargain. only know how to disrupt

          [Welcome back to emptywheel. SECOND REQUEST: Please choose and use a unique username with a minimum of 8 letters. We are moving to a new minimum standard to support community security. Thanks. /~Rayne]

        • elcajon64 says:

          I know I’m not adding much to the discourse, but this is exactly it. They aren’t trustworthy and they all know it.

          Counting votes requires an understanding that the maneuvering is over once the votes are committed.

  6. jdmckay8 says:

    They should take a lesson in mathematics and learn how to count.

    Honestly, that would be asking too much of this crew. Couldn’t keep their attention long enough to get to 3. Besides, their inability to count is the DEMOCRATS FAULT!!!

    Jake & Elwood had a clearer mission then these guys.

  7. RitaRita says:

    I guess that I am used to the professionalism of Speaker Nancy Pelosi but I am shocked that Jordan and allies would have brought this to a vote. They must have known that Jordan was not going to win. Maybe Jordan is using this first vote to shame or force people into voting for him on the next. But this just looks disorganized and unprofessional.

    I am not a fan of Steve Scalise but he should have been accorded the opportunity to bully/cajole Republicans like Jordan before he was kneecapped.

    And why is the national media treading so lightly on the allegations about Jordan ignoring the abuses by the wrestling coach at Ohio State?

    • HikaakiH says:

      Small correction: Jordan was the assistant wrestling coach. He is alleged to have ignored reports of abuse by the team’s doctor, a Richard Strauss (I used a Richard Strauss, since there is someone a little more famous of the same name), who the report prepared by law firm Perkins Coie for Ohio State says abused at least 177 young men.

      • HikaakiH says:

        Jordan’s defense is basically to claim obliviousness, which isn’t a characteristic often embraced by great leaders.

      • Dopey-o9 says:

        Jordan was a Mandated Reporter. I called my Congresswoman, whose Big Issue is Human Trafficking, and asked why she would endorse a pedophile-enabler* who violated reporting laws.

        Still waiting for a return phone call.

    • LaMissy! says:

      Elise Stefanik referenced Jordan’s wrestling career in her introduction, to gasps. What in the world?

      “While nominating Jordan for the job, Stefanik claimed that he ‘is the voice of the American people who have felt voiceless for far too long. Whether as judiciary chair, conservative leader, or representative for his constituents in West Central Ohio, whether on the wrestling mat or in the committee room, Jim Jordan is strategic, scrappy, tough and principled.’” From HuffPost.

      Also quite the moment when Rep Greg Pence of Indiana voted to seat as Speaker Jordan, the guy who conspired with Trump to get his brother, the Vice President, killed.

  8. Ebenezer Scrooge says:

    It looks like the downstate NY Republicans who barely won a first term in 2022 voted against Jordan. Except, of course, George Santos.

  9. LadyHawke says:

    Did they (not unreasonably) believe that fear and threats would make most fall in line for a public vote?
    While discounting those few who can actually foresee what their life under Jordan rule will be, and are hoping to let the his votes run their course, in order to move on and elect someone(?) who can actually do the job or at least not drive them over cliffs?

  10. JeoparDiva says:

    Jordan might have realized he didn’t have the votes and couldn’t get them behind closed doors, so took it to the floor to see if public pressure would work. Poor Jimmy — guys like him don’t like looking weak publicly, so that vote must have stung! Glad I had a full bag of popcorn…

  11. Chris Bellomy says:

    The news media have misreported who holds the power in this Congress, and now that mistake is coming into focus. It’s the centrists who control the hardliners, never the other way around. Only now are the centrists finding themselves.

    We have Manchin and Sinema. They have Biden district Republicans. Guys like Jordan and Gaetz can bluster all day, but in the end they get only what the centrists give them.

    Gaetz overplayed his hand here.

    • RipNoLonger says:

      I started to write a much more sarcastic reply bu then tthought I’d just ask you to clarify WTF are you saying? Perhaps a bit more supporting information for your “pronouncements” would be nice.

  12. BobBobCon says:

    I will reiterate that the same blindness affecting Jordan and Scalise before him is there in the Hill press corps. They think everything revolves around the leadership offices and especially the GOP leadership.

    They’d be far more informed if they talked to a lot more rank and file Democrats, who are not only a lot more attuned to reality but have fewer reasons to dissemble. They’ll happily share the procedural hurdles the GOP is facing. But most Hill reporters either think it’s beneath them or don’t understand how the Hill works, and so they can’t count either, parse statements members make, or understand the implications of how endorsements and votes unfold.

  13. Konny_2022 says:

    “Jeffries has, by my count, now gotten the most votes to be Speaker in a dozen votes this year.”

    Jeffries has gotten 1 time 211 yeas and 15 times 212 yeas to be Speaker this year. The Dems started with 212 representatives because Donald McEachin had died in late November, 2022 and was replaced by Jennifer McClellan only in February, 2023.

    This is according to the House results for roll calls 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 18 and 20 in January. The specified result for roll call 521 of today hasn’t been published as of yet (https://live.house.gov/?date=2023-10-17). But in another thread here I read that Jeffries got again 212 yeas.

    • emptywheel says:

      Right, but in votes 12-15 in January (IIRC), McCarthy got ~216 or so. Not enough to win,but more than Jeffries.

      • Konny_2022 says:

        You’re right: McCarthy beginn with 213, thus getting more than Jeffries in round 12 (= roll call no. 15) for the first time, then jumped to 214, thereafter to 216 where he stayed in the final vote. But that was enough for winning because 4 more Republicans had voted present (in addition to the 2 of the last but one round).

    • Konny_2022 says:

      Correction: Roll call no. 8 was not on speaker election but on a motion to adjourn, so it has to be deleted from my list.

  14. Matt Foley says:

    Best way to gag Trump: put him under oath.

    He sure talks tough when he’s outside the court room in front of the Fox camera. Funny how that works.

  15. Paul Kenny says:

    The sad reality is that Trump is the only republican who can win either the Presidency or the SotH.

    Let’s hope he is never nominated for a supreme court spot.

    [Welcome back to emptywheel. Please use the same username and email address each time you comment so that community members get to know you. You have 71 comments published as “paulka123”; please use that name on each and every comment. Thanks. /~Rayne]

  16. Old Rapier says:

    Joseph Goebbels on why the anti democratic revolutionary Nazi party joined the Reichstag.

    https://alphahistory.com/nazigermany/goebbels-on-the-reichstag/

    “We are an anti-parliamentarian party that for good reasons rejects the Weimar constitution and its republican institutions. We oppose a fake democracy that treats the intelligent and the foolish, the industrious and the lazy, in the same way. We see in the present system of majorities and organized irresponsibility the main cause of our steadily increasing miseries.

    So why do we want to be in the Reichstag?

    We enter the Reichstag to arm ourselves with the weapons of democracy. If democracy is foolish enough to give us free railway passes and salaries, that is its problem. It does not concern us. Any way of bringing about the revolution is fine by us.

    If we succeed in getting sixty or seventy of our party’s agitators and organizers elected to the various parliaments, the state itself will pay for our fighting organization. That is amusing and entertaining enough to be worth trying.

    Will we be corrupted by joining parliament? Not likely. Do you think us such miserable revolutionaries that you fear that the thick red carpets and the well-upholstered sleeping halls will make us forget our historical mission?

    Is our entry into the Reichstag the beginning of a compromise? Do you really think that we who have stood before you a hundred or a thousand times preaching faith in a new Germany, who have smilingly faced death dozens of times from the red mob, who have joined you in battling every form of resistance whether of official or nonofficial nature, who have bent before no command or terror, do you really think that we would lay down our weapons in exchange for a railroad pass?

    If we only wanted to become representatives, we would not be National Socialists, but German National Party members or Social Democrats. We do not beg for votes. We demand conviction, devotion, passion! A vote is only a tool for us as well as for you. We will march into the marble halls of parliament, bringing with us the revolutionary will of the broad masses from which we came, called by fate and forming fate. We do not want to join this pile of manure. We are coming to shovel it out.

    Do not believe that parliament is our goal. We have shown the enemy our nature from the podiums of our mass meetings and in the enormous demonstrations of our brown army. We will show it as well in the leaden atmosphere of parliament. We are coming neither as friends or neutrals. We come as enemies! As the wolf attacks the sheep, so come we. You are not among your friends any longer! You will not enjoy having us among you!”

    • Rayne says:

      I am approving this comment this time, but it’s 444 words long — too long for many readers who use mobile devices. I don’t have the time to validate copyright, I’m going to assume copyright isn’t an issue. But 300 words is the uppermost bound on an unbroken excerpt which is copyrighted.

      Concision is your friend. Use smaller excerpts and point back to the source.

    • dar 5678 says:

      Goebbels was an impressive communicator.

      It is merciful that our would-be despots are largely illiterate and non-charismatic.

  17. ButteredToast says:

    According to Politico, no more Speaker votes until tomorrow. Evidently Jordan’s not confident he’d pick up votes were there a second ballot today. He’s probably counting on Hannity and co. ratcheting up the pressure tonight.

    • Rugger_9 says:

      That support from Hannity could be a critical ‘tell’ for tomorrow, in just how hard Hannity tries. I would expect that Hannity will do his part to unleash the Wurlitzer, but like McCarthy before him Jordan will discover that lying about deals in public made with your caucus is not the way to win hearts and minds. Or, votes for Speaker.

      Not that I encourage anyone to wander into the RWNM sewer, but it might be useful to know if there is full throated howling or merely pro forma grumbling before pivoting to Hunter Biden or HRC or AOC or ….

      • Tech Support says:

        Politico has been aggressively updating their reporting on this all day, and the latest piece is focused on the backfiring of the pressure campaign:

        “But one House Republican, who was granted anonymity to speak frankly about private conversations, said that Jordan and his lieutenants are “calling people who voted for him trying to stop the bleeding.” And they warned that those calls are “pissing off” members rather than winning them over, noting Jordan has failed to strongly and publicly disavow the attacks against his detractors.”

        It’s sounding like a 2nd vote can only go worse than the first one.

        • ButteredToast says:

          Jordan just tweeted, “We must stop attacking each other and come together.” So everything is fine and dandy now.

          According to Olivia Beavers, freshman Freedom Caucus nut Andy Ogles (R-TN) said tonight that Jordan would lose more support tomorrow. Kind of a weird strategy for a Jordan supporter, publicly projecting a lack of confidence.

      • P’villain says:

        FWIW, the comments at Fox News online were mostly threats by self-proclaimed conservatives to re-register independent. Turns out obvious dysfunction’s a bit of a turn-off.

  18. WilliamOckham says:

    Are we sure that there are 217 members of the Republican caucus who want to have a Speaker? How many members voted against both McCarthy (on the motion to vacate) and Jordan?

    • Rugger_9 says:

      I agree with several others here that Jordan does not have 217 and never will. He’s not a fundraiser like MyKev is, he’s not liked at all by anyone and he’s a ‘my-way-or-the-highway’ guy with lots of really nasty baggage between OSU and J6, etc.

      The only thing is how well the RWNM supports him, and we may find out that Defendant-1 (who endorsed Jordan as a reliable tool to save his orange arse) is really a paper tiger as well. That depends on how committed Lachlan Murdoch is to keep this D-1 clown show going.

      • Matt Foley says:

        It makes sense that Repubs won’t elect Jordan; that’s exactly why I think they will elect Jordan.

        • RipNoLonger says:

          Love your non-sense. It is perfect – the liar’s paradox – and the liars don’t even know they’re the chief actors.

      • BobBobCon says:

        I think a huge part of Jordan and Trump’s weakness is they have no braintrust that knows anything about what holdout reps want or need.

        A traditional organization would know that a rep has been struggling for five years to get a bridge built or an old Army base cleared so a rich developer can finally build a housing tract. Having that knowledge plus a plan to make it happen would give them bargaining chips.

        They can only threaten and then grind gears, and it’s biting them in the rear.

    • Rugger_9 says:

      As for a completely do-nothing Congress (h/t Harry Truman) the lack of a Speaker will make it very hard to blame Ds even in flyover country much less the purple districts and I think the GOP knows very well they’ll lose the House unless they deliver something. We’re talking a lot of people losing jobs and Social Security checks that won’t come.

      As for who would get support, I can’t think of any GOP rep that would be able to hold things together without the Ds, and that has already been laid out as a litmus test for the GOP Speaker. It was enforced on McCarthy to drive home the point.

      • Benoit Roux says:

        As much as I agree that the disfunction can only hurt the Republicans, a lot of things will stall and a lot of people will hurt if they don’t at least approve a CR for the budget of 2024. Not all democrats are that dysfunctional. This is American Exceptionalism in all its beauty.

    • Konny_2022 says:

      If I haven’t overlooked someone, it’s only Ken Buck who voted both to vacate the office on Oct. 3 and against Jordan today (by voting for Emmer.

      • emptywheel says:

        I agree. Buck is the only common vote against.

        And he’s holding out for Republican adults, so he may be waiting.

    • RipNoLonger says:

      Having had kids in the 60s onward who were steeped Sesame Street, The Electric Company, etc., what would the conservatives/repuglicons of those days watched? The cable stupidity didn’t exist. Perhaps preachers on AM? RW social clubs (Lions, Elks, Rotary)?

      • Legonaut says:

        Probably were proud not to watch TV at all. As a kid at the time (b.1967), I knew a few of those. Stood out like a sore thumb on the playground & in class. Probably contributed to their sense of alienation.

        “My parents won’t let me watch” became “I hate our common culture, so I’m not going to participate.”

  19. CaptainCondorcet says:

    Jordan can count just fine. I would bet he knew this vote total within 2-3. His problem subject is psychology, not arithmetic. He thinks he can use public intimidation like his master, with none of the perverse charisma and nonpolitical former “clout”.

    As others have said, the next vote will be telling. He drops even one vote, he’s done

  20. synergies says:

    I thought, that because of the war in the Ukraine (& now Israel), the dems needed to make a deal with McCarthy. Today he voted for Jim Jordan. It only furthers my perception of who’s buying this? IMO there isn’t anything that doesn’t get run by a certain oil rich nation. China is now making huge amounts of electric cars. What’s the answer is the question? I say, if WE, the world now beginning to suffer the effects of climate change, continue to get pressed, full throttle. I’m not in the _______ mood almost a quarter century after 9/11, for this to continue in time when we vowed to end this at the time. When ?

  21. Molly Pitcher says:

    bmaz news from Arizona: from the Daily Beast “Ex-Navajo Nation Leader Announces Run Against Far-Right House Republican”

    “Former Navajo Nation leader Jonathan Nez, a Democrat, announced a bid to unseat far-right Republican Rep. Eli Crane in an election that could see him become the first Native American to represent Arizona in the House. “I understand the struggles that Second District families are facing right now, from the rising costs of food, gas and child care to increasingly devastating wildfires and health care deserts,” Nez said in his announcement video. Crane, a freshman who won his district with the help of Donald Trump’s endorsement, is one of the hardline Republicans who voted to oust Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) from the speakership. Arizona’s Second District includes 14 federally recognized Native American tribes.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/ex-navajo-nation-leader-announces-run-against-far-right-house-republican

  22. Alan Charbonneau says:

    Jordan loses again
    AP: “What was clear was that Jordan’s path to become House speaker was almost certainly lost. He was opposed by 22 Republicans, two more than he lost in first round voting the day before.”

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