58 replies
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    • Badger Robert says:

      Do we have anyone participating that can give us an outline of how the NY judgement becomes a lien wherever the defendant owns real estate? My experience is too limited for me express an opinion.

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        Execution will be stayed pending results of the appeal to the 2nd Circuit. Might be stayed pending results of a request for cert. to the Sup. Ct.

        Good news is that Judge Engoron has already appointed a monitor to oversee Trump’s NY businesses, which would make moving money around to hide it harder to do.

        If Engoron succeeds in appointing a receiver, Carroll would submit her claim to the receiver, not Trump, who would no longer own the assets transferred to the receiver. As a judgment lien creditor, she would have a priority in payment over general creditors. A receiver, unlike Trump, would voluntarily pay creditors in full, but only to the extent it has assets to pay them. This judgment ups the odds that the receiver would preside over a straight up liquidation.

        It’s complex and a lot of debts will be piling up by the time the 2nd Cir. issues its decision on any appeal by Trump in Carroll’s case. That includes the potential, although I think it unlikely, that Trump files for bankruptcy. If Trump wants to go that route, he would have to file before Engoron appoints a receiver, because after that, the assets are no longer his.

        • Badger Robert says:

          That is helpful. The receiver most likely makes it unnecessary to file a lis pendens. Will the secured creditors or one of sons or the daughter step in to prevent liquidation? We don’t know.

          • earlofhuntingdon says:

            Engoron initially proposed appointing a receiver over Trump’s NY-based businesses. That would have to survive on appeal. If it does, whether the receiver conducts a liquidation depends on several things. But first, the receiver would review and probably audit the businesses, and compile a list of their assets and liabilities – worldwide.

            Two important issues are whether the Trumps can own or run a business in NY, and whether they can own or manage real estate in NY. If the answer to both is no, the receiver would liquidate those businesses and sell NY-based real estate to non-Trump buyers.

            After all debts are paid, the Trumps would receive the remainder, which could include cash, in-kind assets, and real estate located outside of NY. What that mix is depends what the net worth was, what assets the receiver had to sell to pay debts, and how large the remainder is.

        • ThreeDayCondor says:

          The jury rendered it as an intentional tort… so it is likely not dischargeable in bankruptcy.

          Same, the $250-$360 million that’s gonna’ flow out of Tish James’ NY state trial shortly.

          A chapter very likely won’t protect him from… call it ~$440 million, in judgments… in just in those two.


            • ThreeDayCondor says:

              Precisely. Dr. Sagan used it… to refer to numbers beyond human imagination and/or comprehension… stars; galaxies and the distances between many of them….

              But in the case of Tangerine… the term refers to numbers… he simply… imagined.

              In point of fact, he is likely already very nearly… insolvent — once the NY state fraud trial concludes, and that Tish James boxcar number is known.


              • LeeNLP says:

                I’m guessing Dr. Sagan said “billions” because the bilabial ‘b’ sound, articulated in Sagan’s own highly imitable way, is downright fun to make.

                Perhaps another reason is that since right wing tax giveaways to the already rich had not yet become so obscenely large, “trillions” was not yet used as commonly as it nowadays.

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          • earlofhuntingdon says:

            Even with Barbara Jones as a monitor, the Trumps can’t help themselves, provide anything more complete, or do so without risking further liability.

        • NoCal Carlo says:

          My understanding of NY law is that to stay execution of the judgment pending an appeal, you have to post a bond equal to the amount of the judgment, plus interest.

          If you do not post the bond, you can still appeal, but the plaintiff can execute on the judgment.

          Trump did post bond on the earlier Carroll judgment of approx 5 million. Posting bond on 83 mil is something different.

        • RitaRita says:

          It is the proverbial race to the courthouse between E. Jean Carroll and the State of New York.

          If Trump were to file a Chapter 11, the creditors would almost immediately ask for the appointment of a receiver and one would be most likely be appointed. Probably Barbara Jones.

          My guess is that Trump’s strategy is to delay until he gets appointed Dictator for Life. He will then unilaterally change bankruptcy laws and come up with some interesting version of federalizing state courts.

      • BobBobCon says:

        For what it’s worth, for the first round Trump did write a check for $5 million to the court, where it is being held before final transfer to Carroll until appeals are resolved.

        Obviously $5 million is doable for him. I have no idea what his liquidity is like for the latest round.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      Dahlia Lithwick writes – before the jury award was announced – about a hearing dealing only with the amount of damages to award in her favor, in a defamation case that Trump already lost:

      Trump has thus far spent every day of the hearings defaming Carroll in real time, often from inside the courtroom. The ability to replicate the very conduct you are denying having done is a magnificent way to show that you own the law. And Trump is nothing if not the snake swallowing its own tail of performative criminality.

      Good reason for a high jury award, which is on the low side of my expectation, but that helps insulate it from being lowered on appeal. Trump will certainly appeal to the 2nd Circuit, which probably won’t help him, and ask the Supremes for cert., which they will probably deny. Given how much is coming down on Trump, Carroll should collect that judgment as soon as humanly possible.


    • BobBobCon says:

      I can only hope the press finally shifts from treating this as a she said-he said story, and starts accepting that Carroll won and Trump is, as he loudly bragged back way in the Access Hollywood recording, a rapist.

      They’ve been embarassing themselves for a long time by dodging reality and refusing to put the facts of the case, and his long history, front and center. This isn’t just an accusation, this isn’t locker room talk. They have the plain language statement by a judge that this was rape, and playing games would be shameful.

      By the standards of journalism the pendulum has shifted to the point where they are being grossly unfair to Carroll if they keep trying to dance around what is at the heart of this case. This isn’t some copyright infringement case or underpayment to a contractor, and if they spin it as a simple monetary penalty for a vague violation, they’re disgraces.

    • Patrick Carty says:

      One would think Donald would now stop commenting on this case, lest he be summoned for personal attacks again. But what are the odds he triples down? Will he be on trial in June for yet another verbal attack on Ms Carroll? 50/50 are my odds right now.

  2. ThreeDayCondor says:

    Previously posted (2002-2008) here as “Nolo”… but now I am Three Days of Condor, as below:

    Very good news! That’s a staggering win for Jean Carroll!

    A very sharp, swift (after ~ two hours of deliberations), steel toed Doc Martens’ kick in the junk, to Trump — from a unanimous federal jury.


    He will have to post an $8.3 million cash bond, just to file his appeal in the Second Circuit!



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    • ThreeDayCondor says:


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    • xyxyxyxy says:

      Why only $8.3 million when on the previous judgement of $5 million he had to put up the full amount of $5 million?
      And next week we may get fraud trial ruling where he’s going to have to put up more if he wants to appeal that.
      If he doesn’t have the liquidity and wants to appeal he will have to sell property at fire sale because who is going to lend him a nickel?
      Here’s hoping it will bring down NYC property values.

      • xyxyxyxy says:

        Meidatouch Ben Meiselas says he’s going to have to put up at least the full $83 million to appeal.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          Yep. The amount of cash or bond required to file an appeal in a federal civil action is normally left to the discretion and approval of the district court, generally so long as the amount is sufficient to protect the value of the judgment.

          In Carroll’s first defamation case, for example, she won a $5 million judgment. Trump apparently deposited that amount with the court, in order to obtain a stay of execution, pending the outcome of his appeal.

          A prudent bond issuer would also demand the full monty. Trump might once have gotten away with less. But he is now overwhelmed with civil and criminal litigation, including a civil case in which he has been found to have committed material, persistent fraud about the value of his assets and businesses.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      The 10% rule of thumb applies to bonds in criminal cases. It varies with the seriousness of the offense, the likelihood that the defendant will be a no show, and the fmv of collateral posted to secure it, with a margin for fluctuations and the time and cost of reducing non-cash collateral to judgment.

      Defendants often show up for trial. Appellants in civil litigation do not as often win their appeals.

  3. sohelpmedog_TEMP says:

    An excellent verdict!
    Ms. Carroll deserves it and only if she gets a small portion of the $, that will be good. She’s a brave woman and her lawyers are top notch.
    And as important, this verdict is bound to push Trump to do even more stupid things which I hope will adversely affect his election prospects. He may eventually collapse under all these adverse rulings and judgments. More to come from Engoron, maybe this coming week. And from the DC Circuit on immunity.


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  4. earlofhuntingdon says:

    From that Dahlia Lithwick article:

    The chilling irony of the only truly substantive thing Trump said—that he didn’t order his followers to harm E. Jean Carroll—is that his trials are seemingly becoming exercises in ordering his followers to disregard the law, as he does, or to choose their own legal endings, as he does. Because if he is above the law, they must be as well.

    If his followers are above the law, Jan. 6, 2021 was just a warm-up. If Trump somehow regains the White House, his grasp on reality reduces to near zero, and his willingness to exact revenge goes off the charts. Reality is what he says and feels; he will only hire people who that support that endeavor.

    • Trypeded says:

      “that his trials are seemingly becoming exercises in ordering his followers to disregard the law, “

      The massive judgement he orchestrated appears intended to take things up a notch

  5. Matt Foley says:

    It’s Friday, my 401k is at record high, the rapist has to pay for his crime, and MAGA snowflakes are melting. Life is good.

  6. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Alina Habba may not be one of low-ranking Widener University law school’s best graduates, but she knows how to read Donald Trump: “Representing him was the proudest thing I could have ever done.”

    Her lack of even novice-level courtroom skills probably contributed to the jury’s quick and harsh assessment of Trump’s arguments. But as Rudy Giuliani knows, in Trump world, it’s mimicking Trump’s persona that counts, because he sees the world only as an accurate or inaccurate reflection of himself.

    • Peterr says:

      What matters for Trump’s lawyer is not the verdict of the jury, but the verdict of the client. Never mind how well you handled the law and the facts — did you make the client look good? Billy Crystal’s “Fernando” said it best: “It is better to look good than to feel good, and you look mah-vel-ous.”

    • P J Evans says:

      Most of us would have said “biggest” or “most important’ rather than “proudest”, but we’re better educated.

    • Patrick Carty says:

      That clock in the front of the building is a 100 year old relic from train stations gone by. I’d buy it from Donald if it helps his current financial situation.

    • Peterr says:

      I’m imagining which golf course might be renamed the E Jean Carroll Golf Club?

      And then I’m imagining the LPGA putting a major tournament there.

        • Rayne says:

          The Trump National Bedminster NJ course, which I think the Trumps were trying to use as both a home address in New York State and trying to claim a tax deduction for farmland with hay grown and goats grazing, and now for the cemetery occupied by Ivana’s grave.

      • punaise says:

        h/t to David Bowie:

        Jean Genie lives on his back
        The Jean Genie loves chimney slacks
        He’s outrageous (Jean Genie)
        He screams and he bawls
        The Jean Genie let yourself go, whoa

  7. brucefan says:

    Sorry for the OT, but Respondents’ Brief in the Colorado USSCt case is worth a look. Sometimes you read a brief and think “they’ve been working on this for years.” Especially impressive when the years have been crammed into a few months.

    Well aware that the winning brief does not always prevail.

  8. Fancy Chicken says:

    As a lefty who avoided the Hunter Biden drama for years because it was ick, please Dr. Wheeler don’t think for a moment that we here ever say “Oh no! Another Hunter Biden post again?!”

    Not happening, and you’ve single handedly made me care about the case and understand what it says about Trump as you elucidated again today. Thanks so much for that.

    And I’ll just go ahead and cross post and say how totally awesome your letter to Judge Noreika was and how great it is to see you on the cusp of validation. Be proud!

  9. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Trump and Habba have cut the legs out from under any request they might make to Carroll or the court to accept cash or bond in an amount smaller than the judgment, for purposes of his appeal.

    Trump continued his defamation for years, he is entirely unrepentant, and both he and Habba have insulted Carroll, the court, and the legal system. Carroll is 80 and continues to be at risk of verbal and physical assault from Trump’s supporters. The piece de resistance is that Trump continues to brag about how wealthy he is. He will have to post the full amount of the judgment in order to stay execution. What goes around, comes around, Donny.

    • Badger Robert says:

      Carroll’s attorneys most likely will request a judgement for attorneys’ fees. They would argue some of the defenses were frivolous and interposed for vexatious purposes. They need to preserve their claim for their appeal.

    • ThreeDayCondor says:

      Yes — but this is now a matter of substantial public concern and Jean Carroll, as to these matters, is a “limited purpose” public figure, so the standard for proving a libel claim is much higher than it was when Tangerine started defaming her (when she was a private figure — entitled to more protection).

      That said, some of what Habba said sounded (to me) to be willfully, knowingly false statements about the record at trial, and the USDC Judge’s rulings — concerning Ms. Carroll.

      It would be a tall order, but I suppose it is possible that Habba too could end up having to write some checks to E. Jean Carroll. [Inside the courtroom, during trial… libel will almost never lie, against a lawyer — to be clear. But outside it… “that’s America, Jack!”]

  10. DaveinCA(NAVGL) says:

    Thank you again Dr. Wheeler for your brave work keeping all these threads moving forward.  It is clearly consequential to public discourse, and also makes a huge impact on my personal awareness of the significance of so much of the news of the day.   I also appreciate having a place where this stuff matters: so many people in my daily life lack the bandwidth, background, or frankly interest to keep up with the exceedingly granular details of the news that this community is a safe haven of reality in a crazy world.   You are a true hero in my world.  Sending healing wishes from SF CA.  

  11. xyxyxyxy says:

    Can Judge Kaplan take further action on Trump and/or Hubba e.g. possibly lying about being ill, now that the trial is over?

  12. phred says:

    These videos with Nicole Sandler are fantastic. You are so good in them EW. Thanks for posting them here!

  13. Clare Kelly says:

    What a great treat for my weekend: The Fridays with Marcy Wheeler/Nicole Sanders podcast and Janet Yellen on “Wait, Wait”, talking about smoking a substance (not allowed mention with the moderation software) while bragging about hitting “6,180” on Candy Crush.

    Thanks, as always.

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