Be Careful What Trump’s Lawyers Wish For, Superseding Indictment Edition

On Friday, first Bloomberg (Yahoo version), then NYT reported that Jack Smith “has decided against seeking a major hearing” to address which of the allegations charged against Donald Trump were official versus unofficial acts. Here’s Bloomberg:

Special Counsel Jack Smith has decided against seeking a major hearing to present evidence in the election-interference case against Donald Trump before voters go to the polls Nov. 5, according to people familiar with the matter.

The move means that it’s unlikely a so-called mini-trial, which would include evidence and testimony from possible blockbuster witnesses like former Vice President Mike Pence, would take place before the presidential election.

Such a hearing would have been the best chance for voters to review evidence about Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election result as he campaigns to regain the White House.

The decision is a win for Trump and his lawyers, who have fought efforts to reveal the substance of allegations against the former president. If Trump wins the election, the case would collapse as the Justice Department has a policy against prosecuting sitting presidents. Trump could also order the department to throw it out.

Instead, Smith and his team are carefully revising the case against Trump, according to the people familiar, who asked not to be named discussing a confidential matter. [my emphasis]

The emphasis here was on a supposed “win” for Trump’s lawyers, though they haven’t actually done anything to get that win. They haven’t filed a brief, they haven’t made any formal requests. This is a “win” that they did nothing — at least, nothing since SCOTUS rewrote the Constitution for Trump — to earn. Though the piece is right: If Trump wins the election, it seems impossible that this prosecution will lead anywhere, and Smith’s reported decision not to ask to explain the charges in more detail makes it less likely that such a mini-trial could have a bearing on whether Trump does win or not. (While Bloomberg states that “Trump’s lawyers didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment,” that description doesn’t rule out that this story was sourced to someone close to Trump, and the story does cite Trump’s spox, who seems to have just ranted about witch hunts.)

The NYT provides a better sense of whence the hopes for a mini-trial before the election came — from outside commentators (probably including me), not from anything Smith had officially said — which is important to making sense of this development.

Still, the ruling left open the possibility that Mr. Smith’s prosecutors could use a public hearing to air some of the evidence they had collected against the former president before Election Day. Several legal experts and commentators seized on the idea, saying that a hearing like that would almost resemble the trial itself — albeit without the finality of a jury verdict.

And yet such a proceeding was always going to be fraught with complications — not least if it ended up being held in the homestretch of an election in which Mr. Trump is seeking to return to the White House.

Neither of these stories mentions the last official thing we did hear from Jack Smith: that his team needed an extra three weeks, from August 9 to August 30, to consult with other DOJ components, as required by Special Counsel regulations.

The Government continues to assess the new precedent set forth last month in the Supreme Court’s decision in Trump v. United States, 144 S. Ct. 2312 (2024), including through consultation with other Department of Justice components. . See 28 C.F.R. § 600.7(a) (“A Special Counsel shall comply with the rules, regulations, procedures, practices and policies of the Department of Justice,” including “consult[ing] with appropriate offices within the Department for guidance with respect to established practices, policies and procedures of the Department . . . .”). Although those consultations are well underway, the Government has not finalized its position on the most appropriate schedule for the parties to brief issues related to the decision.

So two weeks before these stories, Jack Smith said, we need more time to talk to other people at DOJ to decide our “position on the most appropriate schedule … to brief issues,” though, as I noted here, Special Counsel regulations would not technically require consultation about the timing of hearings or briefs regarding the case in its current posture, especially given Jack Smith’s past representations that DOJ guidelines on elections would not have prohibited holding an actual trial in the pre-election period. And then, in the two weeks since, “people familiar with the matter” have decided, heard, or learned that the most appropriate schedule does not include a mini-trial, which is not something that Smith had ever publicly considered in the first place.

And neither of these stories fully address that, in most circumstances, this would not be Smith’s decision to make. Bloomberg says, “Chutkan could overrule Smith and order a major hearing prior to the election.” NYT describes that, “Judge Chutkan could in theory still order such a hearing to be held.” NYT does walk through the range of alternatives to do what SCOTUS ordered, that is, to sort through which parts of the indictment are official acts and which are not. But, in most circumstances, it was never Smith’s position to demand a public hearing, and nothing he ever said indicated he intended to do so. The goal of a mini-trial, as NYT reported, came from outside commentators.

There is one circumstance, however, where Judge Tanya Chutkan would not have a chance to weigh in. And it is one circumstance that is alluded to by both of these pieces, without addressing its potential implications. NYT states that prosecutors might seek what it assumes would be a pared-down indictment.

The prosecutors could also seek to bring a new, pared-down indictment against Mr. Trump focusing on charges they believed arose from acts undertaken in his private role as a candidate for office, not in his official role as president.

Bloomberg cites (and includes in its subhead) that prosecutors “are carefully revising the case.”

You can’t change a word in that indictment — you can’t take out all references to Jeffrey Clark’s role in subverting the election, the one thing SCOTUS said has to happen — without going back to a grand jury and superseding the original indictment. But even just doing that would put Jack Smith in the driver’s seat, effectively giving him the first shot at drafting what should and shouldn’t be included among unofficial acts that constitute crimes.

If Jack Smith is really doing what Bloomberg says — revising the case — then they have decided that they will supersede the indictment.

Now, as I suggested, even if you were doing nothing more than removing the Jeffrey Clark references, doing so would be smart in any case. Not only could Smith excise all the Jeffrey Clark materials, thereby giving Trump less surface area to attack the indictment, but he could tweak what is already there to address some of the other concerns raised by SCOTUS, for example, to clarify how candidate Trump’s reliance on fake elector certificates do not threaten Executive authorities. But minor tweaks, even the excision of the Jeffrey Clark stuff, would not require consultation with DOJ, and if Jack Smith were just excising the Jeffrey Clark stuff, he could have done that before DOJ’s election prohibition on indictments kicks in on roughly September 1.

So let’s talk about what would require consultation with DOJ, consultation requiring two full months from the immunity ruling, because it raises ways that Smith might supersede the indictment that would be a lot more interesting than simply excising the Clark stuff:

  • Consultation with the Solicitor General’s office regarding edge cases on official acts
  • Consultation with DC USAO on how to apply obstruction more generally
  • Approval from Merrick Garland for new types of charges against Trump on January 6 actions
  • Approval from Merrick Garland for charges pertaining to January 6 aftermath

Consultation with the Solicitor General’s office regarding edge cases on official acts: First, and least controversially, DOJ would consult with the Solicitor General’s office regarding any more difficult issues regarding official acts. Perhaps the most obvious of these — and one squarely raised in SCOTUS’ ruling — is the status of Mike Pence in conversations about certifying the electoral certificates. If Pence was acting exclusively in his role as President of the Senate, then Trump’s relationship to him would be as a candidate, and so under Blassingame, an unofficial act. But the Republicans on SCOTUS want to argue that some of these conversations were official acts, making Pence’s testimony inadmissible under their order. If DOJ is superseding an indictment to excise the things that need to be excised, DOJ would want the Solicitor General involved in such decisions not just because they’ll have to defend whatever stance Jack Smith adopts, but also so as to protect the equities of the Executive Branch, which DOJ traditionally guards jealously.

Consultation with DC USAO on how to apply obstruction more generally: More interestingly (and as I focused on here), if Jack Smith were to supersede the indictment against Trump, he would undoubtedly tweak the language on the two obstruction charges to squarely comply with the Fischer decision limiting it to evidentiary issues.

Since Smith got his extension, DOJ has started weighing in on a handful of crime scene cases where (unlike around 60 others) it thinks it can sustain obstruction charges under a theory that the defendant knew the import of the electoral certifications themselves and took steps to obstruct the actual counting of them.

Here’s what such an argument looks like in the case of Matt Loganbill:

At the time Fischer was decided, approximately 259 cases of the over 1,400 cases charged in the January 6 prosecution involved the application of §1512(c)(2). Some of the 259 cases were convictions at trial, while others were convictions through pleas. Some of those are currently pending trial, whereas other defendants have served their sentences of incarceration fully. As a result of Fischer, the government has endeavored to review cases – particularly those cases pending appeal, pending trial, or actively serving a sentence – in a timely and responsive fashion. Of those original 259 cases, the government has, as of the date of this filing, sought to forgo application of §1512(c)(2) – either post-conviction, pending appeal, or pending trial, in over 60 cases.5 The government continues to evaluate and/or litigate §1512(c)(2) in a variety of contexts. In this case, after a careful analysis of the Fischer opinion, the government contends that the defendant violated the statute and intends to proceed with the charge.

[snip]

  • On December 20, 2020, the defendant wrote to Facebook, “This would take place Jan 6 Witnesses should be 60 feet away while Pence counts the Electoral College votes . . . Pence should open all the envelopes and then stack all the EC ballots in a pile, he should then shred all the envelopes and burn the shreds.” Gov. Ex. 302.47.
  • On December 30, 2020, the defendant wrote to Facebook, “CALL SENATOR JOSH HAWLEY’S OFFICE T O D A Y AND LET HIM KNOW YOU SUPPORT HIS INTENT TO BE THE FIRST REPUBLICAN SENATOR TO CHALLENGE THE ELECTORAL VOTE ON JANUARY 6.” Gov. Ex. 302.49.
  • On January 6, 2021, at 1:20 p.m., the defendant sent a text message, “Are you watching what’s going on in the house/ elector certification.” Gov. Ex. 303.
  • On January 7, 2021, the defendant replies to a comment by another person on Facebook saying, “Why do you think we were trying every means possible to stop these idiots from stealing the presidency and destroying this nation.” Gov. Ex. 302.65

Evidence at trial showed Loganbill entered the Capitol, the location where the Electoral College ballots were located and where Congress and the Vice President were conducting the official proceeding.6 Gov Exs 101.1 and 701. Once inside, the defendant proceeded towards the Senate, where Congress would be handing objections to the Electoral College vote – attempting to obstruct Congress’ certification of the Electoral College ballots. The defendant knew where he was going. The government admitted a Facebook post by the defendant on January 7 and 8, 2021, he wrote, “They didn’t [let us in] at the chamber, we could have over run them, after 10-15 minutes of back and forth, we walked out” and “The only place [the police officers] wouldn’t give was the hallway towards the Rep. chamber.” Gov Exs 302.66 and 302.82, respectively. The “chamber” and “Rep. chamber” were where the Vice President and members of Congress would have been counting and certifying the Electoral College ballots. Gov Ex 701

[snip]

From this evidence, including the defendant’s express statement related to the destruction of the electoral ballots, the Court would be able to find, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant acted to obstruct the certification of the electoral vote, and specifically, that he intended to, and attempted to, impair the integrity or availability of the votes (which are documents, records, or other things within the meaning of Fischer) under consideration by the Joint Session of Congress on January 6, 2021.

Of course, with any retrial, both parties would be permitted to introduce new evidence, or start the record over anew. Indeed, the government would likely introduce additional evidence related to the ballots and staffers attempts to remove the ballots from the chambers when the riot started

5 The government’s decision to forgo charges should not be read as a concession that the defendant’s conduct does not meet the test as articulated by Fischer. Rather, we are evaluating the facts on a case-by-case basis, including whether the defendant committed other felonies, whether the criminal penalties of other applicable crimes sufficiently serves the goals of 18 U.S.C. § 3553(a), and whether additional litigation is warranted. This process is appropriately time-consuming.

6 According to the testimony of Captain Jessica Baboulis’ testimony, “[t]he official proceeding had suspended due to the presence of rioters on Capitol Grounds and inside the Capitol. ECF No. 31 at 23. As the Court said in its verdict, “It doesn’t matter to this count if he entered the building after the official proceeding had been suspended and Pence had been evacuated.” ECF No. 40 at 5. Loganbill attempted to and did obstruct the Electoral College vote, including the counting of ballots, the presence of members of Congress, and the presence of the Vice President.

DOJ is making the effort of trying to sustain the obstruction charges for defendants who can’t be charged with one of several other felonies (obstructing the cops or rioting), but whose conduct — DOJ believes — should still be a felony. They’re going to have to do this with some members of the two militia conspiracies, the felony convictions on which are often the primary felonies (though DOJ used the obstruction of cops with them too).

It’s fairly easy to see how this effort has to harmonize with however Smith revamps the obstruction charges against Trump. And given the evidence that Smith was moving to include the Proud Boys in Trump’s case, that harmonization may be key to sustaining obstruction charges against the Proud Boys.

Approval from Merrick Garland for new types of charges against Trump on January 6 actions: In my last post, I also suggested that Jack Smith could be considering adding insurrection charges against Trump. I argued that the three opinions protecting Trump — Immunity, Fischer, and Colorado — squarely permit such a charge. Notably, the immunity ruling said that acquittal on a charge, like the insurrection charge on which Trump was impeached, does not prohibit criminal charges for the same crime. And the Colorado decision noted that insurrection remains good law. If Smith decided he wanted to do this, it would require approval from Garland. I consider it an unlikely move (not least because some of the evidence to prove it would still be inadmissible under the immunity decision). So go read my earlier post for more on this.

Approval from Merrick Garland for charges pertaining to January 6 aftermath: By design, SCOTUS has made it really hard to prove the case against Trump, because it requires Jack Smith to successfully argue that Trump’s own speech — even his Tweets!! — are unofficial acts, when SCOTUS has made them presumptively official. Smith would not face the same difficulty for his speech as a private citizen. And a significant swath of the known investigation actually pertained to things Trump did after he left office: That investigating how he used donations made in the name of election integrity to do things entirely unrelated. It’s unclear why Smith dropped that side of his investigation, but it’s something that would face fewer of the challenges created by the immunity ruling.

Similarly, Smith had already asked to use statements Trump made after the period of the charged conspiracies (which go through January 7 or January 20) to threaten those who debunked his voter fraud claims.

In apparent response [to January 6 Committee testimony], the defendant then doubled down and recommenced his attacks on the election workers in posts on Truth Social. He even zeroed in on one of the election workers, falsely writing that she was an election fraudster, a liar, and one of the “treacher[ous] . . . monsters” who stole the country, and that she would be in legal trouble.

The Government will introduce such evidence to further establish the defendant and his co-conspirators’ plan of silencing, and intent to silence, those who spoke out against the defendant’s false election fraud claims; the defendant’s knowledge that his public attacks on officials—like those on his Vice President as described in the indictment—could foreseeably lead to threats, harassment, and violence; and the defendant’s repeated choice to attack individuals with full knowledge of this effect. It also constitutes after-the-fact corroboration of the defendant’s intent, because even after it was incontrovertibly clear that the defendant’s public false claims targeting individuals caused them harassment and threats, the defendant persisted—meaning that the jury may properly infer that he intended that result. Finally, evidence of the defendant’s encouragement of violence and the consequences of his public attacks is admissible to allow the jury to consider the credibility and motives of witnesses who may be the continuing victims of the defendant’s attacks.

Smith also asked to introduce evidence of Trump ratifying the violence of and promising to pardon those who engaged in it, other statements after he left office that would not be entitled to any immunity.

Of particular note are the specific January 6 offenders whom the defendant has supported— namely, individuals convicted of some of the most serious crimes charged in relation to January 6, such as seditious conspiracy and violent assaults on police officers. During a September 17, 2023, appearance on Meet the Press, for instance, the defendant said regarding Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio—who was convicted of seditious conspiracy—“I want to tell you, he and other people have been treated horribly.” The defendant then criticized the kinds of lengthy sentences received only by defendants who, like Tarrio, committed the most serious crimes on January 6. Similarly, the defendant has chosen to publicly and vocally support the “January 6 Choir,” a group of defendants held at the District of Columbia jail, many of whose criminal history and/or crimes on January 6 were so violent that their pretrial release would pose a danger to the public. The defendant nonetheless has financially supported and celebrated these offenders—many of whom assaulted law enforcement on January 6—by promoting and playing their recording of the National Anthem at political rallies and calling them “hostages.”

Any crimes that focus on things Trump has done since he left office to undermine democracy would not be entitled to any immunity.

In a presser the other day, Garland pointed to the number of prosecutions DOJ has pursued for January 6, arguing that the prosecutions have “shown to everybody how seriously we take an effort to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power: The last January 6, the coming January 6, and every January 6 after that.” Charging Trump for his continued efforts to undermine democracy would be one way to do that.

I’m not sure if Smith believes he could prove that these constituted crimes. But if he does, he would need Merrick Garland’s approval to charge them.

All that said, there’s the issue of timing. Usually, when DOJ is considering superseding someone, they tell defense attorneys. So I had been wondering, given Trump’s recent rumpiness, whether DOJ had indicated they would. If last week’s stories were sourced to people close to Trump, as opposed to people in DOJ, then it would seem Smith did not do that.

Which gets to another thing Jack Smith would have to consult on: If he were to supersede, when he could do that. And while he would have one more week to roll out an indictment to avoid DOJ’s pre-election deadlines, I think in this case, Garland likely would require Smith to hold off a superseding indictment itself until after the election.

We’ll learn more on Friday. But it’s possible we’ll learn that DOJ intends to supersede the indictment after the election, meaning everything would halt until then.

Update: Tweaked what I meant by Tweets being official or unofficial speech.

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61 replies
  1. tomstickler says:

    “protect the equities of the Executive Branch, which DOJ traditionally guards jealously.” zealously?

  2. Howard Winant says:

    Just a thought: Could Smith indict Ginny Thomas, or at least call her as a witness? Presuming any trial ever proceeds, that could create interesting dilemmas for her “best friend.”

  3. klynn says:

    “We’ll learn more on Friday. But it’s possible we’ll learn that DOJ intends to supersede the indictment after the election, meaning everything would halt until then.”

    I really hope this is not an exercise in a legal veil of self-censorship for safety for DOJ.

  4. SunZoomSpark says:

    In other interesting DOJ news, Merrick Garland hosted a press conference where a number of cases were discussed. Most relevant to the election is the Antitrust indictment of RealPage for using an algorithm! to collude with landlords to raise rents! in a monopolistic manner.
    Yes Biden Harris DOJ fighting to expose one of the reasons that the Rent’s Too Damn High!

    Link to DOJ press conference https://youtu.be/EZMB3IhozBA?si=iKoDpkXlplaOtZVn

    https://www.propublica.org/article/realpage-lawsuit-doj-antitrustdoj-files-antitrust-suit-against-maker-of-rent-setting-algorithm

      • Michael Carr says:

        I read it elsewhere and think it is interesting news. If mainly to help defang the Republican narrative about inflation being the fault of the current administration.

        • xyxyxyxy says:

          Definition of inflation needs to be changed to read “price gouging by the greedy because they can.” If antitrust laws were adhered to, then…

  5. Ginevra diBenci says:

    Somewhat OT but at least perpendicular: I have understood Smith’s challenge with charging the Mar-a-Lago documents case in SFL due to the seeming fact that Trump and his lackeys committed their obstruction in that jurisdiction. But the documents belonged in DC. And we still don’t know where all of them are.

    Is it too abstract to argue that the obstruction may emanate from SFL, but it extends to the doors of the National Archives?

    If a tweet constitutes a president’s official act, existing pan-universally in its glorious immunity, then it seems only fair the legal system should extend a correspondingly unfixed standard to the iniquitous.

    • emptywheel says:

      Yes. Because that is not the crime. The crime is not taking the docs, but keeping them and refusing to give them back.

  6. Sandor Raven says:

    NYT describes that, “Judge Chutkan could in theory still order such a hearing to be held.”

    The NYT, by adding “in theory”, frames the situation by putting the action, ordering a hearing, on the far side of what is possible, and so, what is expected. Should they be?

    “In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.” — Yogi Berra

    • emptywheel says:

      I was trying to say here that,
      1) The idea of a mini-trial was driven by dopes like me, not anything Smith said
      2) Therefore, the idea that anyone would want that is largely invented
      3) Especially if all this time Smith has always been deciding not whether to supersede, but how

      Once you have to change the indictment (getting rid of the Jeffrey Clark stuff), then Smith gains far more from choosing to supersede it. Especially since Chutkan didn’t rule on the motion to dismiss 1512: bc by superseding, you moot that motion.

      And as I said in my earlier post on this, that’s also consistent with what DOJ is doing with the Jan6 crime scene people in the wake of Fischer. Tons of people are getting superseded, not just Trump.

      • Peterr says:

        And what is the likelihood of a superceding indictment being a lengthy speaking indictment, filled with plenty of supporting details?

    • Buzzkill Stickinthemud says:

      Don’t know who said this…

      “Ok, it works in practice. But does it work in theory?”

  7. BRUCE F COLE says:

    Regarding your third bullet point, Marcy, about getting approval from Garland for new types of charges: I’ve been harboring a thought for the last ~9 months that the findings of the DOI IG’s Special Review” of their handling of the J6 Eclipse rally (issued 12/18/23) would somehow impact Smith’s J6 case against Trump. Here’s that report:
    https://www.doioig.gov/sites/default/files/2021-migration/SpecialReview_Review%20of%20the%20U.S.%20Department%20of%20the%20Interior%E2%80%99s%20Actions%20Related%20to%20January%206%2C%202021.pdf

    The item in the report that jumped out to me the most at the time was an email exchange, found on page 20 of that report, between one of the ladies of Women For America First, who took out the NPS permit to hold the rally, and an unnamed rally speaker. (I don’t have the chops to get that text to copy and paste here, so you’ll have to read it there).

    That email exchange describes succinctly how the assault on the Capitol wasn’t in any way “spontaneous” and that it was conspired in the days before the rally, with full awareness that if it had been made public, that such pre-knowledge would have blunted the assault. IOW, it’s prima facie evidence of the J6 insurrection conspiracy, and it also provides an evidenciary road map for Smith in that regard.

    Of course, the IG report came to light only after the J6 charges had been filed, so Smith’s team may not have had access to it prior to the indictment; but following the SCOTUS immunity ruling, it seems to me that it could have become part of a superseding indictment honing in on purely political actions, and that it may be the focus of a connected secret GJ process that is, in part, a reason for Smith’s delay till August 30.

    There’s a lot more damning stuff to mine in that DOI IG report (including NPS and DOI mis- or malfeasance), but that page 20 bit is what I sent to the DOJ tip line last Dec, just as a “knock on wood” gesture.

    It has since occurred to me in the last couple weeks that it’s possible that the “Iran hack” of Stone and Wiles may be concocted (albeit with complicit, actual Iranian actors with Russian direction) as a way of deligitimizing a DOJ warranted search of those same accounts in this regard. But that’s just my CT talking, prompted by the timing of it all and by the inherent duplicity of team Trump.

    • John Paul Jones says:

      Technical point (apologies if you already tried this);
      1. Download the doc as a PDF.
      2. Click on the blue arrow on the Acrobat tool bar.
      3. Drag down to select text.
      4. Open an MS Word file: paste in the text.
      5. Text should appear with a little box at the end with an icon of a clipboard and a down arrow; click on the arrow.
      6. Select “Text only” option.
      7. Copy resultant text from Word file to here:

      “This stays only between us, we are having a second stage at the Supreme Court again after the ellipse. POTUS is going to have us march there/the Capitol . . . It can also not get out about the march because I will be in trouble with the national park service and all the agencies but POTUS is going to just call for it “unexpectedly[.]”

      I’m assuming this is the message you are referring to.

      • BRUCE F COLE says:

        Thank you. Yes, that’s the meat of it.

        I’m a bit surprised that there hasn’t been an FOIA request for a compendium of those texts the IG surveilled (they were texts, not emails as I incorrectly noted above), and for the particpant’s name that the WFAF director was texting with.

        • BRUCE F COLE says:

          Thanks harpie. I completely missed that post back then. And you highlighted that exact quote in the comments at the time. Thanks for cluing me in.

          So Lindell was the guy in the text exchange, and Kremer (the WFAF lady) lied her ass off in that hearing. Jesus H.

          Still, this seems to me like ripe evidenciary fruit for the picking, all those players’ phones and email accounts, etc. Certainly probable cause shouldn’t have been an issue. I get it that Smith wanted to make the J6 case just about Trump’s liability when a trial before the election was possible, but I wonder if that rationale might have changed after those recent SCOTUS decisions changed all those rules.

        • harpie says:

          I hope you’re right about the possible “connected secret GJ process”
          [that unfortunately won’t bear fruit until after the election] …

          BUT I KNOW what I know about what these fvckers did…
          and so do MANY others!

          We HAVE to keep them OUT of government.

          Harris/Walz MUST win.
          [I hope THOMAS/ALITO never feel like they can retire]

          I am god-damned sick to eternity of these fvking assholes.

        • BRUCE F COLE says:

          @harpie:
          I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact of millions of Americans who see Trump as their savior, literally. His personal psychopathy is so blatant, so undisguised. It’s truly maddening.

          I think that in 10 years or so, Andersen’s “The Emperor’s New Clothes” will be described as a fable that accurately predicted the Trump era in America, and its demise. Making this a Dem-sweep election is vital to the onset of that demise.

  8. Cecilia Mitchell says:

    Listen we have a judge in Florida dismiss a case going off Clarence Thomas and this immunity, and now this case being put to halt. We the people think this is not fair to us that this man is just being giving all these legal victories and not being held accountable. It’s showing us that he is above the law, because if ANYONE else in this country would done the things that he has done, they would have Been in jail. And if this Criminal happens to win this election then what🤔, it’s All over. How could we even take this chance of letting him get away with this. And he is still out here making a mockery of the Rule of Law. How is this criminal even able to run for the highest Job in the land as a 34 count felon? And this is who we want @ the helm? Myself and a lot of American people can’t come to grips with this. We the people are very confused and very disappointed in the DOJ at this time. Please spread the word that this is crazy and unacceptable by the American people. And it’s like we don’t count in this country. If he would have did this in Russia what do think Putin would have done🤔He definitely would not be able to just get away with this. He’s probably already Sold Us secrets and documents to foreign countries already. DOJ make this make sense🤔 Thanks sincerely, We The People..

    • Rayne says:

      Welcome to emptywheel. Please avoid using emojis as they are not searchable. Emoticons are acceptable. Thanks.

    • xyxyxyxy says:

      It’s not only recent and Cannon etal. It goes decades back, eg NJ Casino Commission, rental discrimination boards, fair labor practices commissions, etc.

  9. Drew in Bronx says:

    If Smith is going to seek a superseding indictment, I wonder whether the co-conspirators (or some of them) might be included. The conventional wisdom about trying Trump separately at the outset was that it was going to be cleaner and quicker, thus possibly resolved before the election. Now the trial isn’t starting before 2025 and may last past the end of that year. So holding certain participants’ feet to the fire might be more likely to force their cooperation.

    It’s certainly clear in the existing indictment that these other schmoes were happily criming along with Trump. Is this at all likely?

  10. Badger Robert says:

    Except as the law now stands as announced by the Supreme Court, President Biden would have a very free hand to finish the election certification in all the states from which there is reliable information that VP Harris won.
    And the DofJ is likely to have evidence of further illegal acts by the former President both before and after the upcoming election.

  11. P-villain says:

    Part of this has to be a prosecutor’s natural aversion to raising the curtain on their evidence before the actual trial. It also occurs to me that Smith may be reading the newspapers and concluding that with a new Democratic nominee, it may be possible, after all, to believe that a trial (rather than a Presidential order to dismiss the action) can actually occur after the election. In other words, he may be gambling that he has the luxury of waiting.

    • rwood0808 says:

      Regardless of who wins, after Jan 20th, 2025, none of this will matter.

      Once again the timid DOJ fails to take the needed action and kicks it down the road.

      I hope Harris boots Garland and installs someone bold and decisive.

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        The law aspires not to be a political tool, though many, especially those like Trump. try to bend it that way. It is not designed to meet your political ends.

        • rwood0808 says:

          Yeah-yeah. You keep saying that but it A, doesn’t stop the other side from doing so, and B, thats all they need to do to win. Your strategy amounts to “Wait, let them blow up the bridge first and then we’ll attack them on the way out.”

          The gravestone will say “Our country died, but at least we did it by the numbers.”

          I see Smith finally appealed. Will it be an offensive strike or another meek effort that amounts to nothing? We’ve got 71 days, unless this appeal makes an impact within that time its for nothing.

      • P-villain says:

        Why in the world would it not matter if Trump, et al. were not convicted until after the new administration takes office?

    • Badger Robert says:

      Any action on these cases may help Trump get into the news cycle and claim victim status. Anything that blocks VP Harris from the news is not helpful at this point.

  12. Savage Librarian says:

    The Court Card of Supersedes

    We’ll talk about receipts tomorrow
    The Trump court card of supersedes
    Where he goes low, we place our bet
    We reminisce, he’ll pay a debt
    We can’t forget to supersede

    He’ll laugh tonight but cry with sorrow
    When he beholds what supersedes
    As he goes low, we place our bet
    We hope to find our goals are met
    His fears know well what supersedes

    Here is where we’ll find what crimes he
    will try blocking or put down
    But he left his soul behind, see
    In a trumped up tower town

    The joy we have he just can’t borrow
    He cannot play along, indeed
    But he goes low, we place our bet
    We’ll sing a song and count his wrongs
    We’ll behold what supersedes

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_v8IYDRayw

    “1933 Ted Weems – The Boulevard Of Broken Dreams (Elmo Tanner, vocal)”

  13. CovariantTensor says:

    “SCOTUS rewrote the Constitution for Trump” is not hyperbole. I used to think the SCOTUS was more objective about calling “balls and strikes” than most progressives give it credit (with the exception of handing the election of 2000 to Bush). Since the immunity ruling, I no longer do.

    I am disappointed there will be no “mini trial” prior to 11/5/2024 exposing all the stuff Trump is alleged to have done between losing the election and Biden’s swearing in. Yet, I acknowledge it’s not the criminal justice system’s job to get involved in politics. Smith’s job is to seek justice against Trump and his co-conspirators to the fullest extent of the laws. Taking his time to write a superseding indictment and empanel a new grand jury may be more conducive to that end. Chutkan’s job is to see to it that those laws are applied fairly. Neither of these considerations involve the timing, before or after the election. If bmaz is still lurking around somewhere I’m sure he’ll agree.

    Jack Smith has made relatively few official statements about anything. He plays his cards close to his chest.

    My sense is Garland would not be on board with anything radical such as charging Trump with insurrection (which, given a conviction would make Trump ineligible to be president again, if he’s still alive when that could make a difference). He seems too conservative for that. He would have been better on the SCOTUS, IMO. He most certainly would not have been on board with tailoring an immunity ruling specifically for Trump

  14. harpie says:

    Chris Geidner re: the DOCUMENTS case:

    https://bsky.app/profile/chrisgeidner.bsky.social/post/3l2ngxcjdqh26
    Aug 26, 2024 at 3:35 PM

    JUST IN: Special Counsel Jack Smith files his brief at the 11th Circuit asking the appeals court to reverse Judge Cannon’s order dismissing the Mar-a-Lago case that Smith filed against Donald Trump. [screenshots][THREAD][link]

    From the link:

    [pdf22/81] Precedent and history confirm those authorities, as do the long tradition of special-counsel appointments by Attorneys General and Congress’s endorsement of that practice through appropriations and other legislation. The district court’s contrary view conflicts with an otherwise unbroken course of decisions, including by the Supreme Court, that the Attorney General has such authority, and it is at odds with widespread and longstanding appointment practices in the Department of Justice and across the government. This Court should reverse. […]

    • BRUCE F COLE says:

      Given that this appeal is for a ruling that is every bit as precedent-dismissively egregious and blunderingly inimical to judicial impartiality as her Special Master Disaster was, I would not be the least surprised if Pryor took the reins on this again, with the end result being another smackdown — but in this instance accompanied by her removal. I don’t know what the august legal minds on this site would give as odds for that happening, but my guess is better than even.

      If that were to happen, I’m assuming that Cannon would then be conclusively out of the picture going forward, no appeal of her removal being available to Trump (given that it’s an administrative action by the Circuit). Am I getting that right?

      And also if that were to happen, coming from one of the most conservative Circuits in the country, I’m also wondering if SCOTUS would likely deny cert in an expedited fashion so as to highlight their unwillingess to step into that particular steaming pile?

  15. Zinsky123 says:

    The SCOTUS immunity decision was such a wretched decision! They are leaving the executive branch was such a gigantic fig leaf to hide behind, it won’t be long before everyone sees how foolish it was to sculpt and chisel existing law to fit Trump’s crooked worldview. I hope the justices who signed on to this unAmerican decision pay mightily for their hubris and foolishness!

  16. Molly Pitcher says:

    JUST NOW: “Special counsel Jack Smith on Tuesday filed a superseding indictment in the election interference case against former President Donald Trump, slimming down the allegations against the 2024 presidential nominee in light of the Supreme Court’s immunity ruling.”

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/27/politics/trump-superseding-indictment-january-6/index.html

    from Iowa public radio :A spokesman for Special counsel Jack Smith said the superseding indictment was presented to a new grand jury one that had not previously heard evidence in the case. The spokesman said the new indictment “reflects the Government’s efforts to respect and implement the Supreme Court’s holdings and remand instructions.”

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