Don Jr’s Online Buddies Allegedly Demand $5 Million from Russian Shell Companies to Say Nice Things about His Daddy

When DOJ announced today it would unseal legal actions against Russian influence operations, the former President’s failson complained, “Here we go again. LOL”

Some hours later, it became clear that a number of right wing influencers, including Tim Pool, Dave Rubin, and Benny Johnson, were unwittingly on the take from Russia, via Tenet Media, which DOJ alleges in a new indictment is a front company for RT.

I consider myself a connoisseur of a well-written indictments. And this, released days after Labor Day and implicating a number of Americans, may be one of my favorites.

Start with the two crimes alleged, like the innermost layer in a matryoshka doll.

The indictment only charges two things. First, conspiracy to violate FARA (18 USC 371), based on just only charges four overt acts, all pertaining to RT persona Elena Afanasyeva:

  • Konstantyn Kalashnikov’s addition of Afanasyeva to Tenet’s Discord Server in August 2023.
  • Afanasyeva’s circulation fo 841 video clips that got posted onto Tenet’s social media channels, possibly including the video of Tucker Carlson getting off after shopping in a Moscow grocery store.
  • Tenet’s June 2024 authorization for Afanasyeva and Kalashnikov to post on Tenet’s platform.
  • 30 wire transfers to Tenet, though countries including Türkiye, the Emirates, Mauritius, Czechia, and Hungary, all ultimately going through a bank in NYC.

The second charge, conspiracy to commit money laundering, describes only that Kalashnikov and Afanasyeva used a variety of means to hide that RT was paying for all this.

To prove the FARA charge — one you’d only need to prove if Kalashnikov and Afanasyeva showed up in the US for arrest — you’d need to prove that the two RT people succeeded in influencing US politics, and deliberately hid that they were doing so on behalf of a Russian entity. And RT is sufficient — you wouldn’t need to show that RT was paid by the Russian government.

So you have to show how they worked through cut-outs, the two people who run Tenet media and through them the influencers like Tim Pool and Benny Johnson who got duped.

And that requires you showing how RT set up fake personas, including a fake funder named Eduard Grigoriann, as a front to use to convince Pool and Johnson this was all legit, so that after one of them — I believe this is Pool — asked for more information about whom he’d be working with, they would have ready answers.

One of the other figureheads — either Johnson or Dave Rubin — complained about this fake funder (FBI mocks them all because they keep spelling his name wrong), because he used woke language:

Commentator-1 had “a problem with the profile we sent over, specifically the reference to ‘social justice.” I think it may be because that’s usually a term used by liberals, but we’re trying to create a conservative network.”

That led to a Zoom meeting that the persona, Grigoriann may have missed, because they fucked up the time difference between Paris and Moscow.

At approximately 8:58 a.m. Central Time that day, “Eduard Grigoriann” replied to his earlier email: “I am there guys.” The time, in fact, was 3:58 p.m. in Paris — but it was 4:58 p.m. in Moscow. Approximately two minutes later, “Eduard Grigoriann” performed a Google search for “time in Paris.” “Eduard Grigoriann” them replied to his email, in part: “Sorry, wrong hour. Didn’t sync the calendar.”

There’s some real clown show stuff in this. But it didn’t matter for Pool and whichever one is Commentator-1, because they signed contracts worth almost $5 million a year or $100,000 per non-exclusive video.

The money laundering part of the indictment describes that RT has laundered $10 million to pay for Tenet’s work.

Which brings me back to the logic of this indictment. As noted, it’s all focused on the Russians, and even there, the evidence in the indictment consists of IP addresses showing they accessed Tenet servers from the same IP address they used to access their Gmail accounts from Moscow. There’s undoubtedly a lot of SIGINT behind what the US government knows about the operation.

It’s not necessary to prove criminal charges.

And there’s no First Amendment equities, because Afanasyeva and Kalashnikov are both overseas.

Even if DOJ hadn’t missed the 60-day window for the election by two days, there’d be no election implications for the same reason.

But this indictment will continue to work for the next two months, until the election and thereafter.

In the presser announcing this and another legal action, DOJ emphasized that this investigation is very much ongoing.

For people like Pool and one of the other Commentators, so long as they claim to be duped by these awful Russians, they’re in the clear, legally (interestingly, Pool has ties to Cassandra Fairbanks, who was targeted by RT in 2016). In fact, Pool has posted to just that effect.

My statement regarding allegations and the leaked [sic] DOJ Indictment

Should these allegations prove true, I as well as the other personalities and commentators were deceived and are victims. I cannot speak for anyone else at the company as to what they do or to what they are instructed

The Culture War Podcast was licensed by Tenet Media, it existed well before any license agreement with Tenet and it will continue to exist after any such agreement expires. The only change with the agreement was that the location of the live broadcast moved to Tenet’s Youtube Channel.

Never at any point did anyone other than I have full editorial control of the show and the contents of the show are often apolitical. Examples include discussing spirituality, dating, and videos games.

The show is produced in its entirety by our local team without input from anyone external to the company

TCW is separate company not associated with http://Timcast.com or other properties. It exists solely for the production of the Culture War Podcast

That being said, we still do not know what is true as these are only allegations.

Putin is a scumbag, Russia sucks donkey balls

And to the journalists who wish to jump the gun, create their own narrative, or lie about what is currently going on,

you can eat my irish ass

Tim Pool is now on the record with “donkey balls.”

But there are other people — certainly the two founders of Tenet — whose actions might be crimes, either Foreign Agent and/or sanctionable crimes.

DOJ doesn’t tell us about the fate of those people. Perhaps there are other indictments buried somewhere. Perhaps they are coming.

Anyway, read the whole thing: It’s a tale of right wing grift, sloppy operational security that was nonetheless adequate to satisfy far right grifters, and a far bigger spend on the part of Russia to play in this year’s election.

And read it, too, for how even the producers who worked for Tenet, who also appear to have known the gig, thought that Tucker Carlson’s video, pretending to be wowed by a Russian supermarket was too much. “It just feels like overt shilling.”

Nevertheless they shilled away.

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63 replies
  1. John Paul Jones says:

    Yeah, the Tucker Carlson ref, aka, “well-known U.S. political commentator,” stood out to me too, and I had myself a small chuckle.

    What’s interesting is Commentators 1 & 2 evinced some suspicion of who was approaching them, but in the end, they tumbled for it, even when their own internet searches failed to turn up any real references to “Eduard Gregoriann” as linked to the bank he was supposedly linked to. The siren lure of money, I guess.

    • Amateur Lawyer At Work says:

      Not my area of the law, obviously. What does the law require here: green flags or just no red flags?

    • bawiggans says:

      This is them going thru the motions of doing due diligence to vaccinate against future legal exposure. Looks like it might not have taken.

  2. CPtight617 says:

    Marcy, do you genuinely believe Pool and Johnson were duped into promoting the RT content or is that sarcasm? Both of these guys are malevolent dbags, so I am interested to know why they would suddenly be so naive to think a legit outfit would pay them $5 million a year to do anything.

      • BobBobCon says:

        There’s a ton of money floating around from domestic sources like Thiel, the Mercers, Mellen and the Kochs, and a lot of them hide money with shady non-profits. It’s a parallel to the antivax movement – there are a lot of Russian trolling efforts, but plenty of independent US-based stuff too, and you don’t get funded if you ask too many questions about where the money is coming from.

      • Sue Romano says:

        Really? I’m curious what leads you to this conclusion. There’s a woman in my home town who has been on Fox News with Tucker (when he was on) talking about CRT. She posted pictures on IG with Okeefe and Kellyanne.We locals knew she was a fraudster and called her on it.

    • Fraud Guy says:

      I blame Sirius and their massive contract with Howard Stern to launch their network. If he could get that type of windfall money with his content, a lot of people would think that they deserve some generous fraction of that for their erstwhile content. With low value contributors awash in money, it’s easy to slosh around a few million to get what you want.

      • Arby23_05SEP2024_1135h says:

        Stern brought millions of subscribers to Sirius. I’m not sure how you’d equate low value contributors to bringing actual paying customers & lay blame there.

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    • Peterr says:

      Why would they be so naive? An offer like this only confirms their opinion of their own self-worth. “Finally, someone realizes just how important and special I am!”

      It’s kind of like the way a rigged poker game sets up their mark. “We’ve got a really exclusive game going on, and you are special enough to be invited.” Says the mark to himself, “Of course I’m that special!”

      And if your ego takes you to that game, you sit down at the table, and you can’t spot the mark . . . you’re the mark.

      • ExRacerX says:

        You nailed it, Peterr.

        Similarly, Trump’s massive, needy ego is why he, his org and his campaign were such easy marks for the Russians from the get-go.

    • JP_05SEP2024_0936h says:

      Pool and Johnson are aligned with Russian goals regardless of their ignorance of where the money came from. Donkey Balls Putin easily makes the right wing clowns dance for him. Religion teaches people to believe in things that are not true. The righteous are easy pickins.

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  3. Peterr says:

    It’s a tale of right wing grift, sloppy operational security that was nonetheless adequate to satisfy far right grifters, and a far bigger spend on the part of Russia to play in this year’s election.

    Certain as the sun
    rising in the East,
    tale as old as time,
    a song as old a rhyme,
    Stealing from . . . the Least.

  4. coalesced says:

    Tenet media founder Lauren Chen. Writes in support of Christian Nationalism for Turning point USA. Openly opposes the 19th amendment and stars in PragerU’s educational video: “Women should date with a purpose: to get married.” She has an absolute gem of a video on Youtube (under her former channel, Roaming Millennial) titled “People of Color: You Are Not Oppressed.” An avid defender of Richard Spencer/Charlottesville Unite the Right rally and Nick Fuentes. Openly claims climate change is a “leftist plot” to “control the world population.” She produces/star in a weekly BlazeTV show (Pseudo-Intellectual) focusing on modern media pushing “woke” ideology (current iteration of gamer gate).

    The other Tenet founder is her husband, Liam Donovan. He produces her shows. Apparently also produces Tenet Media’s shows. Per the indictment (page 19, paragraph 30) both appear to have knowledge of Russia’s involement:

    “Founder-2 also used the Investor Discord Channel to, among other things, submit U.S. Company-1 ‘s invoices to Persona-I, and to press for payment of those invoices. For example, on or about September 11, 2023, at approximately 8:07 p.m. Central Time, Founder-2 wrote in the Investor Discord Channel: “Today marks two weeks since I submitted the invoice for August. Any idea for the delay? We are signing the large contracts and need to be certain we will get the funding to pay these people.” Persona-I did not immediately respond. While awaiting a reply from Persona-I, Founder-I searched for the then-current time in Moscow. Specifically, at approximately 8:50 p.m. Central Time on or about September 11, 2023, Founder-I searched on Google: “time in Moscow.” The time was, in fact, approximately 4:50 a.m. in Moscow.”

    • emptywheel says:

      Yes. And neither of them have plausible deniability. So there may be sealed indictments for them somewhere.

      • Peterr says:

        I think the DOJ is trolling Founders 1 & 2 pretty hard. From the bottom of page 6:

        [b.] In private correspondence, however, Founder-1 and Founder-2 recognized that truthfully disclosing their affiliation with RT made it more difficult for them to do business in the United States. For example, in a July 2021 email inviting a contact to apply for a job with RT, Founder-1 wrote that “RT’s budget is gonna be larger” but acknowledged, “I know being Russian some folks in the US aren’t too hot on them lol.” As another example, in a private exchange on the messaging platform Discord in February 2022, Producer-1 told Founder-2 that “when I was asking people if they wanted to interview, many said yes until I said I was with RT so I switched to saying I was just working for [Founder-1].” Founder-2 replied: “Ha, not surprised.”

        c. In their private correspondence, while working directly for RT pursuant to Founder-1 ‘s written contract, Founder-1 and Founder-2 regularly referred to their sponsor (i.e., RT) as the “Russians.” For example, on or about May 12, 2021, Founder-2 messaged Founder-1 on Discord: “So we’re billing the Russians from the corporation, right?” On or about May 22, 2021, Founder-1 messaged Founder-2 on Discord: “Also, the Russians paid. So we’re good to bill them for the second month I guess.”

        Those emails pretty clearly kills any possibility of plausible deniability.

        • Amateur Lawyer At Work says:

          Networks of money and influence work like elaborate spider webs with hidden strands going every direction, so the references aren’t “trolling” so much as pulling strands and poking pieces, to see how other areas under observation react. The FBI is probably monitoring more than a few Wyoming LLCs and associated trusts (“cowboy cocktails”) and NYC “wealth management services” and south Florida (lacking a better term) “wealth schmoozers” to see who reacted.

          Also, kudos on the time change issue. When I work remotely from my home office’s time zone, I keep my work computer on the OLD TIME to represent/remind me of HOME OFFICE TIME.

      • JVOJVOJVO says:

        This is just slightly askew from the plot of Ozark – at least in my viewpoint.

        [pretty sure we’re in the both category on this one]

        Find out on the next episode …

    • Jack Mackerel says:

      I believe these influence operations tend to backfire more often than not. The U.S. supported the Mujahideen in Afghanistan and it blew back, and Russia isn’t immune to this anymore than we are. Since you mentioned Richard Spencer, a little subsection is that he has become quite the pro-NATO type and hostile to others on the right who boost Russian propaganda, and Charles “Chuck” Johnson, who is celebrating the indictment and has proudly boasted of acting as an informant for the FBI, has recently caught the ear of Nick Fuentes, who has been pro-Russia. I’m not sure if Fuentes has openly broken from that position but I think it will probably happen. The far right is actually a very fragmented and fractious thing so others who despise Tim Pool’s brand of conservatism are pleased by the news.

    • Ginevra diBenci says:

      I read somewhere (WaPo?) that Tenet had fired Chen. The timing wasn’t clear, but it did seem causally related to her fondness for pro-Russian points of view.

  5. Badger Robert says:

    Is this a word of caution from the DofJ about getting involved with Russian disinformation efforts?

  6. Badger Robert says:

    What evidence could be so hot that Spec Counsel Smith would file it ex parte, and in camera? There is some high level stuff involved. Ms. Wheeler will have to weigh in on 09/05.

    • Peterr says:

      I’m halfway through the indictment, two immediate pieces of evidence seem to fit what you are asking about.

      First, there’s the money trail. It goes from Russia to the Czech Republic to Canada to Tennessee. For DOJ to put that in, it means there was a lot of intelligence activity here, either cyber or old fashioned horsetrading with other country’s intelligence services — either of which would be very highly classified. There is also mention of Hungarian and UK based shell companies, which would likewise fit this kind of concern for security.

      Similarly, the manner in which they traced email traffic from Eudard Grigoriann and Persona-1 to the same IP address would not be something the DOJ and the US intelligence community would like to broadcast to the world.

      • Peterr says:

        From p. 27:

        40. U.S. Company-I received its 30 inbound wire transfers from seven foreign entities – none of which were U.S. Company-l’s contract counterparty, U.K. Shell Entity-I. Three of the remitting entities (“Turkish Shell Entity-I” through “Turkish Shell Entity-3”) listed identical addresses at an office building in Istanbul, Turkey. Three of the remitting entities (“U.A.E. Shell Entity-I,” “U.A.E. Shell Entity-2,” “U.A.E. Shell Entity-3”) listed different addresses in Dubai and Ras Al-Khaimah, United Arab Emirates. And the last remitting entity (“Mauritius Shell Entity-I”) listed an address in Mauritius. Of the seven foreign entities, only U.A.E. Shell Entity- 1, U .A.E. Shell Entity-2, and Mauritius Shell Entity-I have websites.

        The subsequent paragraphs lay out more detail about these shell companies.

        That’s a lot of foreign intelligence work you don’t talk about in public.

        • Badger Robert says:

          Someone on Tribel posted the cover page of a filing by Jack Smith in No. 23-cr-257 (TSC). Its like the top level intelligence work you described, but I’m not sure that is what Attorney Smith has filed. The filing references a top level intelligence officer, so it something very sensitive. It was ex parte and in camera. Does that mean its withdrawn as soon as the court has reviewed it?

        • Peterr says:

          Replying to BR at 9:51pm:

          Jack Smith didn’t file this – SDNY did.

          And IANAL, but my sense is that if a lawyer *files* something, it gets filed. Ex parte means the other side doesn’t get to see it, and in camera means the presentation happens behind closed doors. How a document gets handled after that may depend on the importance of it for the case and the status of the case. For instance, since the two named individuals are Russians and beyond the immediate reach of US law enforcement, I could imagine that the judge might look at the information, make whatever rulings on motions are necessary, then hand it back and say “OK, you’ve filed your charges. You can have your highly classified information back, but if you ever manage to bring these two into my court, I’m going to need you to bring that information back with you.”

  7. Peterr says:

    But there are other people — certainly the two founders of Tenet — whose actions might be crimes, either Foreign Agent and/or sanctionable crimes.

    Yes, and Producer-1 comes to mind, given this section from p. 6:

    As another example, in a private exchange on the messaging platform Discord in February 2022, Producer-1 told Founder-2 that “when I was asking people if they wanted to interview [for jobs], many said yes until I said I was with RT so I switched to saying I was just working for [Founder-1].” Founder-2 replied: “Ha, not surprised.”

    So Producer-1 has no plausible deniability about the link to RT.

    Producer-1 only appears one other time in the indictment, on p. 23, where the indictment describes Founder-1 in a discussion with “Helena Shudra” about pushing out more raw videos from RT, and Founder-1 agreed to direct Producer-1 to do just that — and Producer-1 then did what was asked.

    That relative silence about Producer-1 in the indictment seems . . . curious.

    Or, if I were Producer-1, I might call it ominous.

    • Ken Muldrew says:

      “Or, if I were Producer-1, I might call it ominous.”

      Unless those snippets were provided by Producer-1 as part of a cooperation agreement.

  8. Peterr says:

    Alongside this indictment from DOJ, the Treasury Department has been busy sanctioning various folks for their part in this mess, and warning banks worldwide about doing business with them.

    WASHINGTON — Today, the Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) designated 10 individuals and two entities as part of a coordinated U.S. government response to Moscow’s malign influence efforts targeting the 2024 U.S. presidential election. Russian state-sponsored actors have long used a variety of tools, such as generative artificial intelligence (AI) deep fakes and disinformation, in an attempt to undermine confidence in the United States’ election processes and institutions. Beginning in early 2024, executives at RT—Russia’s state-funded news media outlet—began an even more nefarious effort to covertly recruit unwitting American influencers in support of their malign influence campaign. RT used a front company to disguise its own involvement or the involvement of the Russian government in content meant to influence U.S. audiences.

    “Today’s action underscores the U.S. government’s ongoing efforts to hold state-sponsored actors accountable for activities that aim to deteriorate public trust in our institutions,” said Secretary of the Treasury Janet L. Yellen. “Treasury will not waver in our commitment to safeguarding our democratic principles and the integrity of our election systems.”

    Today’s designations complement law enforcement actions taken by the Department of Justice and the Department of State’s designation of the Rossiya Segodnya media group and five of its subsidiaries, RIA Novosti, RT, TV-Novosti, Ruptly, and Sputnik, as Foreign Missions, steps to impose visa restrictions, and release of a Rewards for Justice (RFJ) reward offer of up to $10 million relating to information pertaining to foreign interference in a U.S. election.

    Much more at the link, with its own embedded links.

    And what are those coordinated actions being taken by State? I’m glad you asked.

    Today, the U.S. Department of State is taking three actions to hinder malicious actors from using Kremlin-supported media as a cover to conduct covert influence activities that target the U.S. elections in 2024 and undermine our democratic institutions.

    As part of a coordinated effort with the Department of the Treasury and other government agencies, the Department is introducing a new visa restriction policy, making Foreign Missions Act determinations, and announcing a $10 million Rewards for Justice offer. . . .

    That third bit sounds interesting. Reading further down:

    U.S. elections, including by organizations such as RaHDit, also known as Russian Angry Hackers Did It. RaHDit has previously engaged in election influence in other countries and is a threat to the 2024 U.S. elections, particularly through cyber-enabled influence operations. Individuals who provide certain information on RaHDit could be eligible for a reward of up to $10 million or relocation under RFJ’s standing reward offer for information on foreign interference in U.S. elections.  

    Members of RaHDit disseminate and amplify propaganda and disinformation from the Kremlin-funded and -directed organization RT and RaHDit is associated with Russian intelligence services. RaHDit is led by Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) officer Aleksey Garashchenko. 

    This is great.

    RT hired US influencers to do their work for them, and now the State Department is trying to hire Russians away from RT, turning their own game against them. Says State to the RT folks back in Russia, “If you have ‘certain information’ (wink wink), we might be willing to pay you a *lot* more than you’re getting from your current employer. We also might consider covering any relocation expenses in your new position with us.”

    I wonder what the going rate is to lure folks away from Russia like this is. And who knows: the mention of FSB officer Aleksey Garashchenko by name could be an engraved personal invitation. “Aleksey, if you’re listening, we have an offer we’d like you to consider . . . a very lucrative offer.”

  9. harpie says:

    Also from today:

    Justice Department Disrupts Covert Russian Government-Sponsored Foreign Malign Influence Operation Targeting Audiences in the United States and Elsewhere Influence Operation Relied on Influencers, AI-Generated Content, Paid Social Media Advertisements, and Social Media Accounts to Drive Internet Traffic to Cybersquatted and Other Domains
    https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-disrupts-covert-russian-government-sponsored-foreign-malign-influence
    September 4, 2024

    The Justice Department today announced the ongoing seizure of 32 internet domains used in Russian government-directed foreign malign influence campaigns colloquially referred to as “Doppelganger,” in violation of U.S. money laundering and criminal trademark laws. […]

  10. BobBobCon says:

    I’d love to see people like Kyle Pope at the Columbia Journalism Review and David Brooks rethink their ridiculously credulous banging of the drum that “Russiagate” was a giant, amorphous fraud. In an ideal world they’d rethink the way they just let people in their circles vibe them into believing this.

    More realistically, I doubt they’ll ever admit they relied on deeply flawed source networks, but it might be possible they’ll look at future shoddy sources a little more skeptically.

    I don’t think people like Pope or Brooks are on the take, but they’ve been far too willing to listen to people in the orbit of Russian influencers. Maybe they’ll try a little harder to be objective, and be less reflexively dismissive of people with knowledge they have visceral reactions to?

      • BobBobCon says:

        Only in the edgelord kind of reductionist thinking that a guy accepting a free drink in a bar makes him a sex worker, because what’s the difference if you put your galaxy-sized brain to work thinking it through?

        In the real world, Brooks isn’t doing any quid pro quo. He’s just a bad lazy thinker who compartmentalizes himself with a lot of hacks, and hit the jackpot working at a place with chowderhead editors and execs.

  11. tje.esq@23 says:

    Marcy, apologies as OT, but

    we finally have a brief filed in 11th Circuit seeking Cannon’s removal as judge, by CREW and the author of the most widely used casebook on Lawyer Professional Responsibility (legal ethics) — Stephen Gillers, among others. They seek a Torkington removal, or “reassignment on remand,” an 11th circuit remedy that SteveBev suggested in April as a potentially fruitful route and Estragon reiterated in June, commenting on your Bubble wrap+Christmas pillow+Nuclear Secret post.

    This 3 point test does not have to prove bias per se, just appearance of problematic case handling (my generalization) and they rely on Cannon’s snail’s pace case handling for one of these arguments. A short summary of CREW’s argument appears in its Motion for Leave (permission from the court) to file an Amicus Brief in the case. See pps. 9-12 of 14 in document 25-1 in the link above. Their actual brief begins on page 15 of the link, and meat of the argument starts on page 36, of the 67 total pages.

    • harpie says:

      Roger Parloff calls this Amicus Brief “strong, shrewd”:

      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1831447634109989306.html
      5:41 PM · Sep 4, 2024

      A strong, shrewd amicus brief was filed yesterday in the appeal of Judge Cannon’s dismissal of US v Trump (MaL) for the AG’s alleged improper appt of Jack Smith. It urges reassignment to a new judge if the court reverses. I’ll encapsulate. …
      1/18 [link][THREAD]
      […]
      @CREWcrew … For the most part, It doesn’t allege that Cannon’s in the tank for Trump. Instead, it quotes her expressed view that prosecuting an ex-president is an intolerable affront to his dignity & implies that her rulings are distorted by that firmly held belief. ../3

      • SteveBev says:

        What I found particularly interesting is the treatment of what CREW calls “B The jury instruction controversy” and “C The undue delay controversy”
        pdf pp42-46, pp46-50 respectively

        Neither gave rise to any appeal by the Special Counsel, and Re B the actual ‘ruling’ such as it was was in favor of the prosecution, though the outcome had given rise to discussion of whether the SC may have chosen to proceed by applying for mandamus.

        What is particularly shrewd about quoting Cannon about the case being an intolerable affront to the President, and thus a case sui generis, is that goes not only to the substance of the merits in their argument, but it also goes to the important threshold argument
        ie Why should 11th Circuit give leave to file this amicus brief in this case and raise these issues, which are not otherwise being directly raised by the parties?

        If the 11 Circuit grants leave, then Cannon is in a whole heap of hurt, because, (I imagine and will be corrected by someone better versed in the relevant practice) the parties will then be invited to themselves address in briefing some or all the matters arising as directed by the Court

  12. Mike from Delaware says:

    Nice matryoshka doll reference. I, however, am not a fan of matryoshka dolls, they’re just so full of themselves.

  13. Error Prone says:

    Where are these two charged people now? In Russia still, or in the US or a European NATO country? Is it possible one/both are cooperating and that the primary targets are Tenet and its people, and one/several of the influences – in a separate indictment, same grand jury, but still under seal? Or yet to be filed? Any indications?

  14. Savage Librarian says:

    As harpie suggested the other day on the emptywheel post about the Proud Boys, Telegram and Pavel Durov (8/26/24), it seems like Joe Biden is working hard on his bucket list. Just days prior to that post, we learned that:

    “The Treasury and State Department announced restrictions against 400 individuals and entities worldwide, including in China, Turkey, and Switzerland.”

    https://www.businessinsider.com/us-russia-sanctions-war-spending-exports-ukraine-china-banks-treasury-2024-8

    And we were told that we would be seeing more. So glad to see it. Great work Biden Administration. So proud of you!

  15. harpie says:

    In the #J6TL hearing [This is Alan Feuer and Charlie Savage]:
    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/09/05/us/trump-election-interference-hearing/4790e1da-090f-5879-89a4-3735ec001770

    [TRUMP lawyer] Lauro and Chutkan are disagreeing about whether the Supreme Court had already decided that Trump’s interactions with Vice President Pence were official. […]

    Lauro is arguing that the allegations about Trump’s attempts to strong arm Pence into throwing the election his way are like a poison pill that should kill the entire indictment.

    It sounds like Lauro wants to eventually have a mini-trial. He is arguing that the defense should have an opportunity to call and cross-examine witnesses to determine the facts on immunity issues, rather than relying on grand jury transcripts from the prosecution.

  16. SteveBev says:

    O/T but best so far of several good bench jokes by Chutkan in DC Trump superseding indictment hearing

    “Judge: you want your opening brief to deal solely with the issues about the VP comms?
    Lauro: exactly. … I’m an originalist….
    Judge: you may be an originalist but i’m a trial judge.”

    Courtesy of Roger Parloff live tweeting https://x.com/rparloff/status/1831707595427422645

    • SteveBev says:

      And Lauro just over played his hand saying the quiet part out loud on the Appointment of SC “issue”

      “Now discussing defense request to challenge propriety of appointment of special counsel. Chutkan wants to know why it wasn’t filed when dispositive motions were due.
      Lauro explains that there was binding DC precedent against them at time. But now very persuasive …
      /52
      ruling handed down by a district court judge [Cannon].
      there’s certainly no waiver here.
      Judge: this expired well before the appeal in this case. there’s binding DC precedent on this. you have an opinion by a district jduge in another circuit which frankly this court …/53
      Lauro: court should consider this issue. justice thomas in effect directed us to do this.
      Judge: he directed you?
      Lauro: well if you read that opinion it’s something we need to do to preserve that issue.
      Judge: Mr. Windom?
      /54”
      Again from Parloff thread linked above

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