Permission Structures and Polling Puzzles
As of today, Trump has less than 7% of his campaign left (47 of 721 days).
As of today, Harris has almost 44% of her campaign left (47 of 107 days).
Keep that in mind as you read this column from NYT’s Nate Cohn, in which he tries to puzzle out why Kamala Harris is doing less well in what he deems high quality national polls than she’s doing in Pennsylvania.
Never mind that his pick of polls has some few suspect polls in there. Effectively what Cohn convinces himself he’s seeing is that the Electoral College, which normally favors Democrats, may this year favor Trump.
Now let’s consider our puzzle: a clear lead for Ms. Harris in Pennsylvania, but a tie nationwide? This is unexpected. Four years ago, President Biden won the national vote by 4.5 percentage points, but won Pennsylvania by just 1.2 points. Similarly, our poll averages have shown Ms. Harris doing better nationwide than in Pennsylvania. This poll is nearly the opposite.
Usually, I’d say that this is probably just statistical noise — the inevitable variation in poll results inherent to random sampling. And it might well be, as we shall see. But I think it’s hard to assume that this is simply noise, for two reasons:
- It’s what we’ve shown before. It’s easy enough to dismiss any single poll result as a statistical fluke. But we’ve now found similar results in our last two polls of the nation and Pennsylvania.
- This is becoming a trend among high-quality pollsters. Yes, our poll average shows Ms. Harris doing better nationally than in Pennsylvania, but if you focus only on higher-quality polls (which we call “select pollsters” in our table), the story is a bit different. Over the last month, a lot of these polls show Ms. Harris doing relatively poorly nationwide, but doing well in the Northern battleground states.
Note that Nate says NYT’s own polls aren’t moving much (while admitting the first days after the debate, responses in PA were more favorable to Harris). But Harris’ lead in MI and PA, across all polls, is inching ever so slowly higher, with some polls beginning to show leads outside the margin of error.
My suspicion is we’re still seeing two effects: that of RFK endorsing Trump, which may have helped Trump by a point (indeed, some polls aren’t including him in states, like WI and MI, where he remains on the ballot) and the debate and Taylor Swift endorsement, which may have helped Harris by up to three.
So far.
But this is why I keep coming back to the 7% versus 44% that each candidate has left in their campaign. Harris is doing in an incredibly compressed timeline, at least by US standards, what campaigns spend years doing. As a result, some baseline actions, such as recruiting volunteers, happened later than they otherwise might have. So there could be — though by no means is guaranteed — a late-election effect from them, as those efforts bear fruit.
Still, as Harris tries to build on that foundation, Trump’s unconventional choices — such as to fire the RNC personnel doing field work and instead to let an Elon Musk PAC do that work — has risks, as evidenced by the decision to fire and replace the canvasing contractor in NV and AZ with 50 days left to go.
That leaves open the possibility that we’ll see gradual movement in the weeks ahead, even ignoring a big blunder by one of the campaigns, or a Black Swan event of the type that would be unsurprising this year.
Brittany Mahomes
To understand what kind of delayed effect recent events might bring about, start with Brittany Mahomes, the spouse of KC Chiefs QB Patrick Mahomes, who has become close to Taylor Swift as both root for their partners at football games. According to the Daily Mail, Trump’s attack on Swift led Ms. Mahomes to rethink her prior support of Trump.
Brittany Mahomes is ‘deeply bothered’ by Donald Trump’s very public attack on her close friend Taylor Swift, according to sources who claim the Kansas City Chiefs WAG is questioning her support for the former president.
Brittany, who has been married to Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes since 2022, sparked a liberal meltdown last month when she liked a post about Trump, 78, on social media.
Weeks later, Taylor, 34, publicly endorsed Kamala Harris’ bid for president – an action that drove a reported 338,000 visits to the federal voter registration website after she shared a link on Instagram.
Trump hit back in predictably blistering style on his Truth Social platform, claiming ‘I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT’ – prompting Brittany, 29, to ‘question’ if she will continue to endorse his campaign.
‘She is questioning her support for Donald Trump after he lashed out at Taylor, saying he hates her,’ a source exclusively revealed to DailyMail.com.
Swift is perhaps the most trusted American, in any sphere. Because of that, polarization will work in her favor, and through her, Harris’, in the same way it tends to work in Trump’s favor when he spins prosecution of him as an attack on him. If people do things to Swift, her supporters will side with her all the more strongly, and in this matter, that may produce movement to Harris.
Mahomes’ vote — presumably cast in MO, where the couple lives — is not going to swing any races. But what is publicly reported to be going on with her may go on with millions of the diehard Swifties who would normally be soft Trump supporters. But that process takes time. First they reconsider their prior beliefs, then they learn why Swift supports Harris, then they get used to the idea of voting for a Democrat.
It’s a process, one that has as many as 47 days left to work.
Springfield’s Republicans and Reagan’s Dead-Enders
Something similar may be happening among more traditional Republicans.
Politico reported on how Republicans stuck with the chaos Trump has created in heavily Republican Springfield are rethinking their Republican support.
“Any political leader that takes the national stage and has the national spotlight needs to understand the gravity of the words that they have for cities like ours, and what they say impacts our city,” Rue, who said he was tired and angry, told POLITICO. “And we’ve had bomb threats the last two days. We’ve had personal threats the last two days, and it’s increasing, because the national stage is swirling this up. Springfield, Ohio, is caught in a political vortex, and it is a bit out of control. We are a wonderful city — a beautiful town. And for what it’s worth, your pets are safe in Springfield, Ohio.”
Asked whether he is going to vote for Trump, the 54-year-old mayor said, “I’m just probably not going to answer that question.” He said he is deeply “frustrated” with Trump’s remarks and how Springfield has become collateral damage.
[snip]
Republican Clark County Commission President Melanie Flax-Wilt, who said she backed Trump in 2016 and 2020 but is now undecided, largely refused to talk about national politics. But she said she was frustrated.
“I’m of the belief that it’s our local community that is going to be here dealing with this after all of the national news is gone and everybody’s done using Springfield, Ohio, as a poster child for immigration reform. We’re the ones who are going to be stuck figuring out what to do with these challenges that are facing us,” said Flax-Wilt.
Sasha Rittenhouse, another Republican member of the county commission, said, “We’ve seen a lot of, I don’t want to say crazy, but unfounded things. It’s a matter of trying to go back and see if there’s any validity to any of it.”
She added, “And thus far, we have not been able to track anything down that definitively shows that any of these things are happening.”
Of her plans to vote this November, Rittenhouse said: “I have not decided what I’m doing. I’ve been a Republican my entire life, and I will leave it at that.”
Any such reconsideration would happen amidst a larger permission structure created by the number of Republicans who’ve publicly supported Harris, including a new batch of national security professionals (some with ties to Dick Cheney, who of course endorsed Harris a week ago — rolled out yesterday, and a group of former Reagan aides rolled out days earlier.
I don’t know whether that will or is working; clearly, Harris finds the support valuable, so the campaign may be seeing positive effects from the GOP support.
But the point is to simply create a permission structure for those wavering in their support for Trump to consider Harris, to rebrand it as patriotism.
Again, if it works, it’ll take time. It’ll be a process.
Iowa draws closer
One of the most interesting polling developments in recent weeks is not in a swing state; it’s in Iowa. The state’s best pollster, Ann Selzer — whom some argue is the best state pollster in the country — released a poll showing Harris within 4 of Trump in the state.
Ann Selzer’s gold standard poll is out, and suggests a remade presidential race in Iowa.
The top line numbers from Selzer & Co’s latest poll for the Des Moines Register and Mediacom indicate former President Donald Trump has 47 percent support and Vice President Kamala Harris 43 percent among likely Iowa voters. This poll started contacting respondents on September 8 (before the debate) and concluded on September 11, the day after the debate. At the end of this piece is a summary of post-debate national polling, which has found a gain for Harris of about 1 percent.
When you compare the new survey to Selzer’s numbers from June (Trump 50 percent, President Joe Biden 32 percent in Iowa), you will find a 14 point shift in margin. But purely focusing on the margin may be a mistake.
Trump’s level of support has varied little since February, when Selzer found him ahead of Biden by 48 percent to 33 percent in Iowa. The change is in the Democratic number. Harris has consolidated the Democratic base, and the 43 percent she receives in this survey is close to the 44.9 percent vote share for Biden in the 2020 election.
As Selzer describes it, this poll reflects new participation among groups energized since Harris got in the race.
Now, 81% of all Iowans say they will definitely vote in the general election, up from 76% in June. However, some of the demographic groups more likely to favor Harris are showing increased participation.
Women show an 8-percentage-point uptick in likely voting since June, Iowans younger than 45 show a 10-point increase, city dwellers show a 6-point bounce, and those with a college degree are up 9 points.
Iowa is not going to go for Harris; if it does, this would not be a close race. But because of Selzer’s credibility, this suggests a trend in the Midwest that likely confirms positive polling for Harris in neighboring WI (and Nebraska’s Omaha district).
But by drawing close in Iowa, Harris puts two of Iowa’s congressional districts in play.
To understand the importance of this new poll, and what it means if it is on target, let’s look at Iowa’s U.S. House seats. As noted above, this poll find Harris trailing Trump by 4 percent statewide. The table below applies that shift to both the 2020 numbers and the results of the 2022 Congressional races.
If Selzer is accurate, Harris is ahead in two of Iowa’s four Congressional districts (the first and the third), and would only narrowly lose the second district. Based on those numbers the Democrats would likely pick up at least one House seat in Iowa, and three races would be competitive.
Even before this poll, Democrats had started dumping (more) money in the two Iowa CDs, so their internals must be showing similar movement.
Pennsylvania bellwethers
There have been a slew of polls from PA overnight. But the result I find most interesting is this one, from earlier in the week: a Suffolk poll of PA (showing a 49-46 Harris lead) and two bellwether counties, Northampton (Bethleham) and Erie (around the city), showing 4-5 point leads for Harris in both.
The survey results showed that the vice president also led the former president in Northampton and Erie counties – two counties that have picked the winner of the last two presidential elections.
Harris had a five-point edge (50-45%) over Trump in Northampton County, located in eastern Pennsylvania and is the home of the cities of Bethlehem and Easton. President Joe Biden carried the county, 50-49%, in 2020 after Trump topped Hillary Clinton, 50-46%, in 2016.
In the northwest corner of the Commonwealth, Harris carries a four-point advantage over Trump, 48-44% – a larger margin than either winner produced in the last two elections. Biden squeezed out a 1-point edge (50-49%) in winning in 2020, while Trump had a two-point triumph in Erie, 49-47%, four years earlier.
Experienced politicos tend to focus on bellwether precincts or counties to read a state and Suffolk just started doing this in the 2022 race (their results predicted John Fetterman’s victory, but weren’t accurate for the county). I’m interested in this approach, though, because it’s one attempt to address all the difficulties with polling.
I’m also interested because of how NYT, among other outlets, has covered the race in Erie.
In July, when Trump led Joe Biden’s native state by 3, NYT did a story on how little credit Biden has gotten for economic investment in Rust Belt areas, focusing on Erie.
On a blighted industrial corridor in a struggling section of Erie, Pa., a long-abandoned iron factory has been humming with activity for the first time in decades. Construction crews have been removing barrels of toxic waste, knocking down crumbling walls and salvaging rusted tin roofing as they prepare to convert the cavernous space into an events venue, advanced manufacturing hub and brewery.
The estimated $25 million project is the most ambitious undertaking the Erie County Redevelopment Authority has ever attempted. It was both kick-started and remains heavily funded by various pots of money coming from Biden administration programs.
Yet there is no obvious sign of President Biden’s influence on the project. Instead, the politician who has taken credit for the Ironworks Square development effort most clearly is Representative Mike Kelly, a Pennsylvania Republican who voted against the 2021 bipartisan infrastructure law that is helping to fund the renovation.
It is one example of a larger problem Mr. Biden faces in Pennsylvania, a swing state that could decide the winner of the 2024 election. In places like Erie, a long-struggling manufacturing hub bordering the Great Lake that is often an election bellwether, Mr. Biden is struggling to capitalize on his own economic policies even when they are providing real and visible benefits.
In August, after Harris had remade the race, WaPo did a story about Erie’s longterm economic plight, noting that its plight would affect the vote there. When it described a new factory funded by the Inflation Reduction Act as a green shoot that might change things, it didn’t describe that Kamala Harris cast the deciding vote for the law that funded it.
The irony — or the puzzle — is that this evident stress coexists with hints of green shoots in the local economy.
A long-planned plastics recycling facility is moving forward, thanks to a new federal loan guarantee. The Japanese corporation Kyocera broke ground this spring on a new manufacturing facility. And popular amenities, including an indoor golf simulator and a rock climbing gym, have opened downtown.
A pre-debate September story in NYT focused on Tim Walz’ appearance in Erie to highlight the campaign’s efforts — more apparent in Harris’ stop in Wilkes-Barre, a story about which NYT focused on skeptics about Harris — to shave Trump’s margins in rural areas.
“Look, it would be easier if we didn’t have to do this. It would be easier if these guys wouldn’t undermine our system, if they wouldn’t lie about elections, if they wouldn’t put women’s health at risk. But they are, so it’s a privilege for us to do the fight,” he said in Erie, Pa., where he stumped from a stage at the edge of Presque Isle Bay before hundreds of cheering supporters waving “Coach” and “Kamala” signs.
The appearance was one of several events that Mr. Walz used to blitz the local media airwaves and fire up Democratic volunteers with the Midwestern dad charm that his party is banking on to help draw white working-class voters. Mr. Walz, and his daughter, Hope, hit several cities in counties that went for Mr. Trump in 2016 — stung by fading American manufacturing and a difficult economy.
[snip]
His trip also underscored the challenges for his ticket as Democrats aim to improve their margins in rural and red-leaning areas in November. The specter of the former president loomed at nearly every stop, and though Mr. Walz arrived ready to engage with undecided voters, some places yielded few opportunities to do so. Mr. Walz also frustrated a handful of reporters as he refused to answer shouted questions.
It complained, twice, that Walz didn’t take reporters’ bait to answer questions only interesting to a pack of beltway journalists.
That outcome by Suffolk, if accurate, reflects a lot of work that Harris and Walz have put in, work that mainstream outlets seem ready to dismiss (while griping that candidates aren’t focusing on coastal journalists while visiting those areas).
There’s a story in Erie. It is a recognizable bellwether area. But rather than look there to see if that’s what explains a possible split between the national polls and PA, NYT’s pollster ignores the possibility that Harris is doing better in swing states than nationally because efforts she has made in those swing states, efforts that don’t feed the media’s narrative have made a difference.
What the Iowa poll may show is a national reconsideration that has happened as Kamala took over the ticket, particularly as women and young voters became more enthused. What the Suffolk PA poll may show is that more focused efforts in swing states are, very gradually, having some results.
That’s why I keep coming back to timing. Trump has 7% of his campaign left, and he’s spending much of his time outside of swing states, attempting to create stunts to shift the media narrative. Harris has 44% of her campaign left, and she’s spending it, partly, out of the limelight, working relentlessly to win over small groups of voters in the swing states that will decide the election.
We should expect a well-run campaign that has focused on swing states to show some results in those swing states, particularly in a race against a guy, Trump, who seems to have a ceiling for his support. Maybe that’s what we’re seeing.
If the election were held today, Harris would have a very good shot to win, but only narrowly. A narrow win might not be enough to stave off whatever fuckery Trump has planned.
But the election won’t be held today. She’s still got 44% of her campaign left to get this hard work to pay off.
Update: Fixed spelling of bellwether.
Caveat emptor: the plural of anecdote is not data.
In the only corner of the Internet I frequent that has significant numbers of conservatives, I’ve been really surprised by the number of people who would normally vote Republican who aren’t planning on voting in the presidential race. These are people who would vote for Haley or Pence or Romney in a heartbeat, but can’t wrap their heads around voting for Trump. They definitely won’t vote Harris, but it still leaves one less vote for Trump on the table.
It’s possible that they’ll come back to the fold in the end, but it’s also possible it’s a bigger trend.
I’m hopeful that even for lifelong R voters who can’t bring themselves to actively vote for Harris, the enthusiasm gap will grow into a vast gulf. Harris doesn’t have to convince them to vote for her. They just need to be exhausted and demoralized with Trump enough to sit this one out. I wonder too how many of these people saying they’ll vote for Trump in the polls will actually make the effort on November 5 to get up and go to a polling station to cast a vote for someone they increasingly can’t defend or are exhausted by or are simply ‘over.’ Probably not as many as I hope, but.
Interestingly, the conservatives that I’ve seen saying they won’t vote for Trump appear to be split between folks who will vote downballot and just leave the top line blank and those who won’t vote at all. The latter are obviously far worse for Republicans’ overall chances.
There might be a way in which “R’s Against Trump” could benefit down-ballot Republicans, as in, you can still support the GOP at the local level, and thus, hamstring a potential Harris/Walz administration, in other words, not voting for Trump can still benefit your favourite party. In that sense, the Republicans Against Trump could be, in part, strategic.
In states where vote by mail is uncommon or difficult, sitting out on the top of the ticket is going to have a measurable impact on downballot races. Moreso in communities where polling locations have been pared back and getting to the booth becomes a “how bad do you want it” sort of challenge.
[Side note: “The plural of anecdote is not data” is 100% going into my rhetorical tackle box.]
Lifelong Republican and former Iowa co-chair for the Haley campaign published an essay in the Demoines Register this morning.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/columnists/iowa-view/2024/09/20/republicans-for-kamala-harris-dawn-roberts-iowa-campaign-nikki-haley/75306017007/
She’s voting for Kamala Harris.
One comment from her stands out in particular:
“At a news conference she said she would consider having a Republican in her cabinet. All of these statements lead me to believe that she truly has the skills needed to bring us together as a country and, hopefully, the world. I heard her articulate that she has always brought groups of diverse individuals and opinions together to solve problems. That is a healthier and wiser way to lead.”
There might still be enough rational Republicans in Iowa to make a difference.
Seems we’re seeing a real-time physics experiment of what happens when an irresistable force (Trump) meets an immovable object (Republican solidarity). Its been clear for a while some unknown number are unhappy with Trump but unwilling to rock their Republican boat, but the butcher’s bill is coming in fast and they’re REALLY unhappy with what they’ve signed up for. The smarter ones like the Cheneys figured out long ago Trump always puts somebody else’s neck on the line, and it looks like the rest are starting to notice.
It’s hard to keep a political party together for the purpose of losing, but that’s been Trump’s mission since the fluke in 2016. As long as he has his army of mouth breathers, he’s able to exert enough control to retain the presidential nomination. Downballot, though, the exhaustion of losing winnable seats out of fealty to the whims of Dear Leader is not sustainable, and the constant cycle of purity test and purge in the MAGA movement doesn’t add to their numbers.
What’s the organizing principle of the Republican Party today, other than devotion to Trump? Absent one, how do they remain a single party? I don’t think they will, assuming things stay on the rails this fall.
Thank you for this analysis, Marcy!
(At the risk of being “that guy”, it’s bellwether, rather than bellweather.)
Thank you!
Etymology. from earlier bellwether “leading sheep (or wether) of a flock,” from the fact that this sheep wore a bell which told the shepherd where the flock was.
From wether, male sheep, but castrated, so, notaram.
Pretty sure that’s about how Stormy Daniels described the Don. /s
Whither the wether man Don wandering thither and yon
Stormy retold she’d laughed to behold ,
his witheringly wee champignon
Well, well, well. Rubbing shoulders frequently here with the likes of Savage Librarian and punaise has obviously had a beneficial effect on you.
Very nice, Steve Bev!
Chapeau, SteveBev!
Ewe said it!
I think Iowa is in play. Why? Project 2025 and its plan to destroy the Farm Bill. Here’s some interesting comments about it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Iowa/comments/1e1osa1/project_2025_and_iowa_farmers/?
https://insurancenewsnet.com/oarticle/project-2025-bad-for-farms
“Farmers and ranchers should know about Project 2025, especially Chapter 10’s plans for U.S. Agriculture. The reforms to farm subsidies include eliminating Agriculture Risk Coverage, Price Loss Coverage, and cutting the Farm Service Agency along with the Federal Crop Insurance program. It eliminates Conservation and Easement programs and repeals the Market Access Program and Foreign Market Development.
Chapter 10 of Project 2025 specifies that USDA nutrition programs be severed and administered by the Dept. of Health and Human Services. Except when I look at Chapter 14 of Project 2025 regarding the Trump Administration’s plans for HHS, the nutrition programs aren’t there. Cut the farm subsidies to grow the food, cut the mutual benefit of feeding people, I suppose. Goodbye FDR’s New Deal. Goodbye Farm Bill.”
You mess with Iowa farms? You mess with the Iowa vote.
Farming security, is national security work. It needs to be guarded and a high priority.
I would like to see references to Project 2025 that pair it with Agenda 47 as an alternate name for the essentially the same thing. That would help undermine the Trump campaign’s efforts disavow it as “not our plan.”
Project 2025, which Trump is trying to distance his campaign from, plans to privatize/commercialize weather forecasting, which means FARMERS WILL HAVE TO BUY/PAY FOR WEATHER FORECASTS, which it currently gets for free.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2024/07/noaa-project-2025-weather/678987/
For those living in Dixie Alley, or Tornado Alley, we don’t know what the effect of this privatization means, but I’ve assumed local TV channels / media outlets may bear the cost of getting formerly-free National Weather Service (NWS)-sourced data. In terms of cities and their urban planning/flood prevention efforts, will only the most wealthy municipalities be able to afford flooding or tornado forecasts?
Farmers aren’t getting NOAA NWS info for free any more than they are getting USDA crop data for free.
They pay for it with their tax dollars through which government agencies are funded.
Donnie thinks that everyone should use commercial services like Accuweather. Which gets its information from [trumpet salute] NWS and NOAA!
And AccuWeather has a nasty little history of selling users’ personal data because in spite of using taxpayer-funded data for its service, it can’t make a profit without selling its users.
The Brittany Mahomes piece is interesting on multiple levels.
First, the Daily Mail is a reputable source? But for the sake of argument, let’s assume they have an accurate quote, so we continue.
Second, the Daily Mail accurately calls Brittany Patrick’s wife since 2022, but there is a lot more there. She and Patrick were high school sweethearts, so the relationship goes back well before 2022. More importantly in this context, she is co-owner of the Kansas City Current, a NWSL team that is currently near the top of the standings. The Current built the first stadium in the world dedicated to a women’s professional soccer team, and they are poised to host the NWSL Championship game in late November. Note, too, that she is a significant business leader, and not just “let me write a check” leader. Given how the Current are poised to make a deep run into the NWSL title chase, this will keep Brittany in the news, if only by extension.
Third, politics in the NFL and NWSL are complicated. Clark Hunt, the latest of the Hunt family to own the KC Chiefs is a reliable GOP donor, as are many NFL owners, though Hunt is not as huge a donor as other owners of professional sports teams. Brittany lives in that world, via Patrick, but she is also deep in the world of the NWSL — which is politically much more like the WNBA and the opposite of the NFL. Hanging around in the world of Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird as well as the world of Clark Hunt is . . . complicated.
Finally, and most tellingly IMHO with respect to Brittany, is that Taylor’s endorsement included a big swipe at Trump using a fake AI-generated image of Taylor endorsing Trump. In the world of sports, where Name, Image, and Likeness is an increasingly valuable part of an athlete’s value, screwing around with someone’s image like this is a huge no-no. (This may also have been part of the WNBA’s Caitlin Clark’s endorsement of Harris in the aftermath of Taylor’s instagram post, as she knows a thing or two about NIL stuff.) I am not at all surprised that Brittany would be so offended by this that she’d rethink her support of Trump — so maybe the Daily Mail is right about this.
The more this kind of AI-generated crap the Trump campaign employs or promotes, the more Brittany is going to move toward Harris. And if you are looking for a late breaking black swan event for the presidential campaign, imagine what would happen if *Patrick* were to endorse Harris . . .
Fascinating. Thanks for that.
Let’s hope the Mail is accurate.
The Daily Mail is pretty conservative/right-wing tabloid, to the point that the Brits have a charming nickname for it which isn’t really fit to print here. I’ve seen several articles from them shared in the last few months where they seem to have an inside-line, so my guess is someone is using them to dump information they want out there to control the narrative. My take is that what they say is probably correct, but the surrounding context and what they are not saying is maybe even more so.
Peterr, Thanks for the insights. The nuance behind the headline is enlightening.
I find it remarkable how little insight Nate Cohn brings to his job. He’ll point out that polling looks a bit odd, vouch for the quality of the polling, and then shrug when asked to explain why the results are what they are or what that implies. There are real answers that could be investigated and explained, but that doesn’t seem to be on his agenda.
Right now this is clearest when it comes to the recent run of PA presidential polls. Within the last day we’ve seen six of them, half claiming the race is tied and half claiming Harris is clearly ahead. Is there a systematic difference in the ways these polls are constructed? Are there modelling choices that explain their discrepancies’? Is it a matter of stochastic sampling? Is there something to be learned about the underlying population by contrasting them? Best we get out of Cohn is “if you average them together you get something in the middle”.
Part of the insight which led to poll averaging becoming a thing, was that there was no good way to determine which of the polls’ methodologies was correct in real-time. So the most accurate thing to do was average now, and then *after* the election (when you knew the correct answer) you would do the analysis to figure out which approaches had been most accurate.
So the job you are wanting him to do is not something he considers to be his job.
You can’t tell whose number is more accurate, but if you wanted to add to the information instead of subtracting from it you could explain what specific choices are leading different pollsters to get different numbers, and you can sure as hell tell systematic differences from stochastic ones. But, yeah, if “I don’t know, maybe it’s somewhere in the middle” is good enough to draw a paycheck, why go through the effort?
I think the framing here is very good. People do change their minds, even about things that are important to them, but they almost never do so quickly. That’s why the framing out the permission structure is important- it’s the supporting framework that lets someone change their opinion over the weeks or months they need. I get quite frustrated with reporting on polling immediately after this event or that debate, calling out no significant movement. Of course not! But give it a few weeks…
I’d like to add my thanks for this analysis. Almost everything (and maybe in fact everything) you get from general media is so superficial that it can only be trusted to either make you depressed or unrealistically optimistic.
What still eludes me is just how the hell is Trump continuing to get as far as he has gotten? This shouldn’t be a close race as I am constantly reading it is. I just can’t read the facts on the ground and not see how Trump should have been finished a thousand times over. But I guess the pull of party-over-country or white anxiety is just that powerful.
Interesting enough, my republican husband just told me no sane person would ever vote for anything connected to Project 2025. I reminded him that he told me he preferred Vance to trump & Vance vocally & willingly espouses 2025 initiatives & that 2025 vows to move to bloodshed if democrats don’t go along. He got more emotional (!?!) & said “I know exactly how to get rid of republicans!” & went on a bit then told me not to tell him about these things that are only put out there in order to worry me. I have to say I really like that he said he knew how to get rid of republicans.
One reason this is a process is you gotta work through restructuring your beliefs.
I can personally vouch for this. Your political identity is often very linked to your core identity, which is not something that changes easily. What makes it (political identity) a bit more malleable is that there is an overwhelming correlation between your political preferences and those of your parents (not surprisingly). And, as one starts to go out into the world on their own, their experiences and beliefs slowly diverge from that of their parents and childhood.
That’s what happened to me. Going through graduate and professional school in a different city really opened my eyes to how the world really worked outside of my insular white, upper middle class family dynamic. And, so with the help of my friends and my now wife, I slowly changed my beliefs.
It took 3-4 years plus the debacle that was the Iraq war to do that. I voted for George Bush in 2000 (and Dole in 1996), but starting with Kerry in 2004, I’ve never looked back. You’re asking people who may be lifelong Republicans (and are considerably older than I was when I had a change in heart) to make that decision in the span of months. That’s a tall order.
My prediction is that this will sway only a few votes to Harris. But it very well make a lot of supporters sit it out for Trump. Which is almost as good.
My only concern for the shenanigans that are surely to happen is that Trump will try to claim that the enthusiasm gap and larger number of new voters for Harris is due to illegal immigrants voting illegally and use that as pretext for riling up violence, especially as you say the national polls may show this to be tighter race on the whole.
NPR has foreshadowed this today with a piece on a conference of swing state elections directors discussing the fear of fake narratives around illegal immigrants voting being their top concern. Hopefully, the disinformation fighters are ready for this.
In the fall of 2016 I had breakfast every Monday with a retired Lt Colonel who proudly and seriously asserted he was a lifelong conservative Republican. He was the Senior Warden of the church where I was interim pastor. Thing is, honor, sincerely held and expressed was the big thing for him. I told him I’d been a Bernie supporter (that’s maybe a bit stretched, I like Bernie, but not the bros). Anyway as time went on he became increasingly upset at Trump and the lack of honor that allowed people to support him. At the election he didn’t vote for Trump, but he hated Hilary, so I’m not sure if he voted on the presidential line.
Thing is, as time went by, he seriously engaged in lots of processes of growth (he was mid-70s at the time). The following May, they hired a 32 year old woman as their priest. When she came out as lesbian, he was very happily supporting her. But it took time and engagement, it doesn’t work like flipping a switch.
Um, Vance wrote the damn foreword to Project 2025 leader Kevin Roberts’ book.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/30/jd-vance-project-2025-book-foreword
Never underestimate the power of misogyny and racism, too.
The blur of memory of the timeline and sequence of events between the Trump and Biden presidencies is a real problem for a lot of people who don’t follow things, esp. in regards to Covid and the economy. They really need a refresher.
Well, if it were true that Harris might do less well nationally than expected (but through natural majority support, prevail anyway), yet (thanks to paying proper attention) do better than expected in swing states and thus secure at least one or two of them, that would be an outcome to be desired, not regretted, surely?
I’m beginning to wonder if some among the commentariat are possibly revealing classic anti-outsider resistance: “how can some arriviste darker-skinned female person who managed to dodge the conventional primary filter process possibly succeed electorally?” The prospect of her success shakes their ingrained self-belief in what counts politically…?
The Iowa poll is certainly interesting, but I keep coming back to what’s happening to Springfield and now, albeit to a much lesser extent, Charleroi, PA, which is suffering from similar xenophobic smears. At the risk of sounding ancient, I remember when Ohio used to be a swing state, and even now Sen. Brown (D) is polling well ahead of the Republican challenger, even though Harris’s numbers in OH are lagging behind Brown. The longer Trump-Vance continue to antagonize, incense, and disparage Springfield, I wonder how many otherwise-Republican voters in Springfield will indeed start second-guessing voting at all, or even follow the permission structure you mentioned. Could it be enough to put OH back in play, especially with a popular D senator up for reelection? Maybe, maybe not. But the fact something similar is now brewing in a town in PA might truly be enough to skew things ever so slightly blue there, adding to a larger cumulative blue effect in PA.
The Catholic Conference of Ohio issued a statement against those spreading rumors against Haitians:
https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/state/2024/09/19/haitian-immigrants-springfield-catholic-bishops-vance-ohio/75293214007/
So this may open doors as well.
Josh Marshall’s subscriber newsletter yesterday pointed out that the reason that there are Haitians in Springfield is because of *very successful* *REPUBLICAN* policies of economic redevelopment. These local Republican office holders are exceeding pissed at Trump/Vance raining on their parade–it’s undermining local Republican governance. (That’s largely why DeWine placed that op-ed today)
“he’s seeing is that the Electoral College, which normally favors Democrats, may this year favor Trump” I think Hillary Clinton and Al Gore would disagree with this assessment. Biden got ~7 million more votes than Trump in 2020 but a shift of about 150,000 votes across a few states and Trump would be president.
Yeah, I don’t know in what universe the current composition of the Electoral College favors Democrats. That’s completely up-side-down.
I think that’s a slip of the keyboard; the sub-head on the NYT article itself is “it may also point to a declining Trump edge in the Electoral College…”
What does it mean that the electoral collage normally favors democrats?
The only times in the last two centuries when a candidate won the popular vote but lost the electoral college were in 2000 and 2016. And in 2020, Biden won decisively the popular vote, but only won narrowly the electoral college. Also, all red states refuse to sign NPVIC (while blue states signed it), because they too believe their chances with the electoral college are much better than winning the popular vote.
The EC is a normal but dysfunctional feature of American politics.
Trump, otoh, is obsessed with gaming the system. He’s relying on being able to throw the election to the House, where Republicans control by one a simple majority of state delegations. (That arrangement is also dysfunctional and heavily anti-democratic. It’s based on state representation as a whole, which gives Wyoming’s roughly half million votes the same weight as California’s roughly 39 million.)
Trump must be awfully confident that he can obstruct enough state election systems, not just Georgia’s, to throw the contest to the House, because he’s golfing and negotiating cryptocurrency deals instead of campaigning. Like his mojo, his 2024 pace is much lower than it was in 2016 and 2020.
It would be thrown to the new house, right?
Yes. The 20th Amendment establishes that each new Congress begins on January 3rd. It and not the previous lame duck Congress counts the EC votes.
They do that in joint session on January 6th, under the authority of the VP – as President of the Senate. She would open, count, and tally the EC votes. Under the Electoral Count Reform Act, the VP’s duties are explicitly ceremonial, allowing no discretion.
Trump will try to get round that process by delaying the state certification process in key states, in hopes that that would prevent Harris from receiving a majority of 270 EC votes for Congress to count.
The court process for resolving state-level EC voting disputes has been streamlined. A case first goes to a panel in the federal district in which the state capital is situated. The panel is made of two circuit and one district court judges from that circuit. Appeals go directly to the US Supreme Court, for final resolution, on an expedited basis.
If Trump manages to create a contingent election, the House decides who wins the presidency, the Senate determines who becomes VP. Yes, that’s weird, and it could lead to a Trump==Harris administration. Ugh.
In the House, each state’s delegation gets one vote. Republicans now control a slim majority of delegations. In the Senate, each Senator has a vote for VP. Democrats and Independents control a simple majority. But who knows who will control the new House and Senate. Chaos, though, is Donald Trump’s briar patch.
If disputes continue past noon on January 20th, VP Harris automatically become Acting President, until such time as they are resolved, and the House chooses the President. The Hill has done a reasonable job parsing this ugly scenario.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4652293-donald-trump-joe-biden-electoral-college-tie-congress/
FYI a potential “October Surprise” on the horizon (so… not really a surprise) is the potential ILA strike and/or lock down which may happen on October 1st. Every East Coast and Gulf Coast shipping terminal closing indefinitely until a labor agreement is reached will greatly and significantly impact supply chains, and not in a good way, right before the holiday shopping season begins. There is little in the way of much being reported on this potential disruption, and what little is known is that:
1. Labor and management aren’t currently negotiating
2. The Biden Administration has publicly stated that they won’t keep the ports open with a cooling down period
I think that the latter is a bluff but it’s difficult to know for certain. Either way, even a day long slowdown can cause a lot of pain, and the timing just before the election is… not good. Couple that with a government shutdown caused by the House RepubliKlowns and we may be in for a bumpy November.
This is like the railroad strike all over again. Is there similar Federal authority to keep the ports open as there is with the railroads?
The media should be reporting on this. First I’ve heard…
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Yes, Taft-Hartley Act gives the Executive Branch that power.
Here’s a decent overview:
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/19/largest-port-on-east-coast-begins-preparations-for-a-strike.html
A strike blocking ports now would likely have little direct impact on the holiday shopping season. somewhere between an awful lot and most of the stuff to be sold by December 25 is already in country in a warehouse. Of course, that doesn’t mean retailers won’t mark up prices…
I don’t know if you work in logistics but as someone who does I can assure you that’s not the case. Per the news article I previously posted:
“According to Kpler, 147 vessels (a combination of container ships and roll-on/roll-off vessels) are en route to the East Coast and Gulf ports by Oct. 1, with 38 of those vessels headed to the Port of NY/NJ. The total carrying capacity of the inbound vessels is 686,181 twenty-foot equivalent container units. The value of that freight is upward of $34.3 billion, based on an MDS Transmodal estimate of $50,000 per container.”
Many vessels arriving later probably haven’t even been booked yet, and I can safely say that the port strike issue really only became prominent to many shippers, both importers and exporters, this week.
Furthermore, for holiday retail goods already in warehouses, there’s still going to be a challenge moving them into stores if trucks and rail are suddenly shifting everything — and I do mean everything — to the west coast. A distributor in New Jersey needing short hauls, for example, is gonna be SOL if that happens.
As of today, Trump has less than 30% of Trump Media value left.
Thoughts and prayers!
Yes, that. DJT stock dropped another $0.875 today, nearly 6%, costing him about $100 million. Hope it’s a trend.
Trump is counting on that stock to keep him a billionaire and liquid enough to pay what could be well over half a billion dollars in court judgments.
https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/djt
DJT closed down $0.92/share at $14.70, and in after-hours trading has continued to sink (now at 14.50 as I post this).
If he is using the stock as collateral somewhere, the value of that collateral is shrinking fast . . .
How sad that Trump’s stock keeps going down, when the market is reaching record highs.
I can hear Trump now . . . “A recession is coming, and my stock is just ahead of the curve. I am such a great businessman, that I could see it coming and get there first!”
/s
Trump pledged last week to not sell his shares, and there was a 25% bump in share value after the announcement. Which has since been erased.
I think he’s probably trapped into keeping that promise. He owns ~114M shares, and today’s trade volume was ~14M shares. Even if he tried to unwind out of his position in slow motion, adding 1M shares a day, every day, for four months on the sell side of that equation? Bloodbath.
The short interest on this stock was also at ~13M shares as of 8/30 and has been steadily climbing. Since the underlying fundamentals of DJT are so poor, if the short sellers expect DJT to delist then they aren’t going anywhere.
If Donald tries to trickle out even a small tranche of his shares following his “promise,” the reaction will be swift. He’s not actually underwater but I think he’s painted into a corner.
I don’t think Trump is trapped legally, but he has a big problem economically. As you say, any significant share sales would tank the stock and probably halt trading.
He hasn’t the discipline to use a programmatic sell order, where he would sell a standard number of shares every month or quarter. It provides modest protection against allegations of insider trading.
Unless he does that, then he might unload one or two tranches before the stock drops precipitously. But even $1.00/share would generate over $100 million, which most of us could manage to live on.
But not Trump. He’s rapacious and stupid. Liquidating any of his property portfolio would be harder and more embarrassing, involving as it would, too much process and too many big players to control the narrative. His crypto deal probably has value, only if he becomes president. So, he’s stuck trying to siphon money from DJT. When he needs it depends on how quickly the appeals process runs its course.
Excuse me if this is a dumb question, because I do not really know how stocks get sold.
Is it possible that Trump could arrange a secret deal with, say, Saudi Arabia or Russia, to buy all of his stock at once on a certain day?
He won’t care if it hurts anyone else, he will just make up some bullshit story to tell his supporters who are losing their investment. Like how it hurt him so bad financially, but he did it for them because once he wins the election, the stock will rise to “never heard of before” levels and they will be rich like him.
The lockout for other investors also ends today. Some of them just won a court case over their stocks, and what I wonder is whether they and some of the others will cash out. If they try to liquidate their entire stakes, it likely means the share value will fall steeply, encouraging others to sell too. In that scenario, it wouldn’t matter whether Trump cashed out or not, the value will plummet anyway. As I type, shares are now at $14.29.
Not my field, but I believe that since Trump holds more than 10% of a listed company, he normally has two days to report to the SEC his transactions in the company’s shares. That would include private sales.
Trump has little experience with SEC rules, and no interest in complying with any, but he would be regarded as a sophisticated investor and be cut no slack for failures to comply.
In after hours trading, Trump’s DJT stock is still sliding. It’s at about $14.59/share. But his 114 million or so shares are still worth about $1.66 billion, before tax.
The latter varies depending on how long he holds the shares. If over a year, the rate tops out at 15%. Less than that, it’s taxed at your average marginal rate. His “basis” in the stock should be zero, which means all proceeds should be taxable.
Correction: the long-term capital gain rate tops out at 20%, not 15%. Determining the cost basis of Trump’s apparently gifted shares in DJT, a new entity, is a bit more complicated.
Donald J. Trump
at realdonaldtrump
The Dow Jones Industrial just closed above 29,000! You are so lucky to have me as your President With Joe Hiden’ it would crash
Sep 2nd 2020 – 4:05:43 PM EST·Twitter for iPhone
Dow today closed at 42,025.
DJT is down 8% already this morning, selling right now at $13.52.
Cue the sad trombone . . .
MAGA one minute: “Interest rates are too high!”
MAGA next minute: “Why did Biden cut interest rates?”
We need an emoji: “Kamala’s look of disbelief”
Trombones? I’m hearing tubas! Closed at $13.55 today. Is the bloodbath that Trump was actually referring to in that speech??
Trump sent us a “Make America Wealthy Again” mailer today.
He has the best timing!
Closed at $13.55. Frankly, I can’t see how he can liquidate in any meaningful way since the only thing propping up the imaginary value is him.
So the Trump fuckery is afoot.
Lindsey Graham is stirring the pot in Nebraska which is one of only two states that are not winner take all for the Electoral College. The GOP there are 33 votes short of changing to WTA.
“Democratic-led Maine and Republican-led Nebraska are the only two states in the country to split Electoral College votes by congressional district along with giving the statewide winner two at-large electors. Maine has two congressional districts, while Nebraska has three districts.”
https://nebraskaexaminer.com/2024/09/18/winner-take-all-push-gets-help-of-gov-jim-pillen-sen-lindsey-graham-trump/
There was talk, earlier this year, that if Nebraska went WTA, then Maine would also switch, to cancel out the Nebraska move. That may not be happening now.
https://www.bangordailynews.com/2024/09/19/politics/elections/maine-couldnt-fight-late-electoral-college-play-nebraska-republicans/
I think that Trump is not so focused on campaigning because he thinks the fix is in and the shenanigans that have been pulled around the country regarding not certifying the elections in the states will give him the win by throwing the election to the House to decide.
Thanks for bringing this up, Molly! Yup…fvckery IS afoot!
Heather Cox Richardson wrote about this in her Letters From an American for yesterday. I commented on that below, here:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/09/19/permission-structures-and-polling-puzzles/#comment-1071164
For those who would like to see more than polls, give yourself a permission structure to also look at keys:
“Harris or Trump? The Prophet of Presidential Elections Is Ready to Call the Race.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/05/opinion/allan-lichtman-trump-harris-prediction.html
I wondered why the EW crowd doesn’t discuss Lichtman. Critiques were hard to find, but here are two to consider. Maybe you have other info either way. Me, I can only spelll stastistics…
“The ’13 Keys’ are garbage and you should stop paying attention to Allan Lichtman” –Mac Tan Aug 7, 2020
https://medium.com/@mactan/the-13-keys-are-garbage-and-you-should-stop-paying-attention-to-allan-lichtman-42d493a51f52
“Allan Lichtman is Famous for Correctly Predicting the 2016 Election. The Problem? He Didn’t” — Lars Emerson, Michael Lovito
https://thepostrider.com/allan-lichtman-is-famous-for-correctly-predicting-the-2016-election-the-problem-he-didnt/
EW, yes,Trump announced his campaign on November 15, 2022, and Harris on July 21, 2024, but recall the Biden-Harris re-election announcement came in April of 2023. When Biden dropped out this past July 21st, Harris’s first campaign event was the next day in Wilmington where the Biden-Harris campaign was, and remains, headquartered. Of course, she has had to scramble after July 21st, but it’s not as if there was no campaign apparatus in place for her, including $95 million in the bank. If April 25, 2023 as the start date of the Biden-Harris campaign (91% of the way through) is too long, July 21st (56%) strikes me as too short.
Marcy has the better dates. That Kamala Harris was the only candidate who could “inherit” the Biden-Harris campaign war chest doesn’t mean her campaign started earlier.
As the junior member of the ticket, she had no personal campaign until Biden dropped out. Yes, like the war chest, she inherited a campaign structure, but it was built around Joe Biden. She had to turn it into her own, by adjusting management and staffing, changing priorities and electioneering strategies. That process didn’t begin, either, until Joe dropped out.
They’re playing eleven-dimensional chest.
There is a difference between being the VP candidate and the P candidate.
Harris may have had a role in decisionmaking before July 21, but The Decisionmaker was Biden. She could suggest, but he decided. Conversations revolved around what would best serve a campaign with him at the head, not her.
Yes, she had $95M in the bank, and a campaign apparatus was there. But she had to convince the people involved to stay on with her, and then reorient all their work in a much different direction. She and her team then had to rework their travel schedule to match the new campaign priorities, with her as the lead candidate – and the solo candidate, before she named her VP pick. She had to take the time to vet and choose a VP candidate to run with her, and reassuring big Biden donors and welcoming new big Harris donors also took time and energy. That’s a lot of work that a candidate who is the candidate from Day One doesn’t have to do.
She’s really good at this. Maybe even better than Biden who had decades of experience. I watched her talk to the campaign staff after the transition (which was streamed nationally) when she thanked them and told them she was keeping everyone in place. Three months ago if you asked me if it was possible to successfully change the candidate this late in the process. I would have said you were nuts, because a lot of things could have gone sideways fast.
I read in an opinion newsletter I get (I cannot find the reference though) that Harris would do well to emphasize the efforts that the Biden Admin. has made to reenergize the rustbelt & to elaborate on exactly how she would continue & enlarge on those efforts when she campaigns there. He said that depending on the affability of Walz was simply not enough given how much influence trump has on the area. He seemed to think she was not capitalizing on an important aspect to the midwestern voters. I think he said he was from that area & saw the disadvantages to her campaign’s approach.
I know a guy, who knows a guy is not best evidence.
What you describe sounds familiar. I couldn’t find the article I read but this is close
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/19/harris-manufacturing-messaging-swing-states-00179924
not sure why I am in moderation ?
With regards to DJT stock, Trump lockout keeping him from selling will be lifted imminently. The stock tanking is partially connected to expectations that he wants to cash out ASAP.
To combat that he just had Newsmax reporter ask him if we will sell his shares post lockout. His rehearsed response was that he loves the company and he’s not selling.
Now he really can’t sell or the SEC will come knocking on his door
So he will probably try to borrow against the diminishing value. Maybe he can get enough pay Letitia James and E. Jean Carrol.
Trump says a lot of things. He rarely means them. But he is the majority shareholder and a walking insider, so anything he says about the stock is material.
But he doesn’t give a damn about the rules, and normally intimidates his way out of complying with them. If he gets back in the White House, that won’t take much work.
If he has to use his shares as collateral. he’ll have to cough up more than dollar-for-dollar. His is a highly volatile meme stock. If unmodified on appeal, what he would owe to NY state and Carroll, with interest, would be over $600 million, approaching half his holdings.
And if he had to sell DJT in order to pay the two judgments, he’d probably end up having to sell all his holdings, as the price would drop like a rock once he started offering shares for sale.
Obviously, Trump and his more extreme second Vance threaten the continuation of life in these United States as we have known it. Republicans who announce they won’t vote for Trump perhaps do allow others to contemplate doing the same. Nonetheless, I am a bit unnerved when the likes of Darth Cheney and Alberto Gonzalez endorse the Democratic candidate. Am I the only one?
I am of the opinion that the GOP/MAGA as currently constituted does not have a future and the Cheneys and other R’s want to have a stake in what comes next. It won’t be simple or quick, but it cannot go on as is. I am no fan of either, but there was a time when both parties valued the structure of the government and understood compromise.
Therefore I do not see any devious mechanizations in their endorsements other than wanting to be on the ground floor of what comes next. They may have terrible positions, but they care about the country. Happy to see the R’s who have split from MAGA and welcome them into the tent. (apologies if I got my name wrong – don’t post much)
I agree and think that’s why Liz got herself on the Jan 6 committee. She herded them all toward Trump and away from any of the other Republicans.
I’m sure there is still a big Cheney Party working furiously behind the scenes, trying to keep as much stench off the party as a whole as they can, so they can regroup post MAGA and get to planning more wars they want to start.
I mean, they’re trying to protect themselves and the main Republican party from the backlash to Trump. They suck, but … so what? When a shitty person says shitty people can vote for you, you take that, because shitty people’s votes are just as good as non-shitty people’s.
If I thought Harris was doing anything to get that endorsement other than promise not to end democracy, I’d be worried, but I don’t – I think they’re really trying to keep anti-Trump Republicans to come out so that down-ballot Republicans don’t get destroyed, which … I’d like down-ballot Republicans to get destroyed but I’ll trade a higher certainty of Trump’s destruction for that.
I think your point is a great one. There have been zero policy concessions, public discussions of policy concessions, or even whispers of private discussions. This newest batch of Never-Trump “endorsements” come from people who don’t like Harris or her positions. But they are betting that they can keep the House or regain it in two years, and a Harris who can pass no laws is a very manageable threat to people who see her as such. Less so someone potentially blackmailed by no fewer than 3 foreign countries.
If it’s any consolation, I was in Casper, Wyoming last week and saw only one yard sign for the convicted felon. There were a couple of Maga supporting city council yard signs and a ton of other political campaign yard signs. It seems the intensity even in Wyoming is dissipating for the convicted felon.
my PacNW neighborhood & town is an oasis of Blue surrounded by MAGA red. in the 2020 election I don’t remember many signs at all. Today “Harris/Walz” signs are springing up all over with one lonely “Trump” sign stuck in the midst (only “Trump” no “Vance”)…
In Maine last week, I saw some citizen had a Trump / Pence sign in their yard. They had cut out a couple of pieces of duct tape and used a sharpie to change the “P” to a “V” and the “e” to an “a” to render it Vance. I mean…
Same here in North Carolina, a ”tactical supply” (ammo and would-be cool guy gear) company has similarly modified their trump/pence banner. If I thought they didn’t have video surveillance, I’d be tempted to swap out their VA for a DUnce effect.
I live in a purple small town located in a bright red portion of a blue state. We have the usual number of Gadsden/Trump/Black and Blue American, etc. flag-waving pickup trucks, but no rolling-roadblock “parades,” and way fewer Trump yard signs, flags, or other regalia compared to 2020. All the roadside Trumpy product vendors have disappeared, too.
the trump trucks have disappeared this time around. will be interesting to see if they re-emerge. doubt there will be a reprise of our sad, lone “trump boat parade”: 2 little motor boats w/Trump flags sagging in the wind.
I actually saw a loner Trump Truck today, leaning out their window to wave their flag as they laid on their horn, driving down a major road.
All by themselves, unlike before when I would occasionally notice an entire squadron of them like, circling the block or something while yelling threatening slogans and “we love him” … here in the extremely deep blue SF Bay Area.
West of Portland Oregon, a couple of weeks ago a Gadsden flag disappeared off a pole where it had been for years. I console myself that that canceled the new Trump sign that appeared in a yard nearby. One place also flying a Take Back America flag plus dozens of little US flags. Fake patriots. Wierdo’s. Losers. Creeps! Harris/Walz signs are on the rise, including a couple of old Biden/Harris signs with the Biden half cut off.
I suspect that roadside vendors were put out of business when the Democrats made their “Let’s Go Brandon” merch unsellable.
[Welcome back to emptywheel. Please use the SAME USERNAME and email address each time you comment so that community members get to know you. You attempted to publish this comment as “Sat”; I have edited it to match your established username. Check your browser’s cache and autofill. /~Rayne]
Democrats killing off small businesses?
o/t
https://bsky.app/profile/nycsouthpaw.bsky.social/post/3l4jw6zvsxz2e
September 19, 2024 at 4:48 PM
https://bsky.app/profile/radleybalko.bsky.social/post/3l4jzicp2wc22
September 19, 2024 at 5:46 PM
Here’s a THREAD Marcy reposted:
https://bsky.app/profile/joesonka.bsky.social/post/3l4jtsqmwol2d
September 19, 2024 at 4:05 PM
Judge fatally shot and killed in chambers, Kentucky governor says
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kentucky-judge-killed-chambers-rcna171902
This news comes straight on the heels this afternoon about how livestreamers related to the McCoy family (yes, that McCoy family, as in the Hatfield and McCoy feud!) found the body of the deceased I-75 shooter, that the Feds/Kentucky State Police had been searching for for over 10 days!
Definitely weird, scary, violent times in Southeastern Kentucky.
Story I saw was that the body was in dense brush, so I’m not surprised it took so long to find. (When’ you’ve seen many stories about bodies being found in the forest or the desert *years* after they vanished, 10 days is pretty fast. And there was the woman they found last week who’d been missing for 12 days. She was alive when found, too.)
Reply to P J Evans
September 19, 2024 at 9:14 pm
A federal/state joint law enforcement manhunt for a suspect alleged to have shot and injured five people with a high-powered rifle is a far different beast than a search-and-rescue, even in the Daniel Boone National Forest. Far more resources were in play, but as it happened, the McCoys found the suspect’s body because they followed vultures.
On a somewhat-related note I am more than skeptical of some rescue stories lately though I don’t know which particular one you’re referring to. There is a recent story of a guy from Ohio who was missing in the Red River Gorge section of the DBNF, and was found, injured and immobile down a cliff, after 12 days or so, allegedly with no food or water. Color me skeptical as most people would die from lack of food and drink. Yet both his rescuers and local media repeated, without scrutiny, the highly improbable feat.
OTOH, this guy survived a failed parachute on a skydive and walked (!!!!) out of rehab after only 20 days…
If this guy announced his lottery numbers, I’d use ’em too:
https://www.wlky.com/article/louisville-phoenix-mcwilliams-skydiving-accident-survivor-walks-frazier-rehab/61523523
And his name is Phoenix!
Perhaps Brittany Mahomes saw this ad from The Lincoln Project entitled ” Bad Blood,” to help her change her mind.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60CX99pCUzo)
Simon Rosenberg believes a real lead has opened up for Harris and that it’s not a post-convention or post-debate bump, but a structural change.
https://www.youtube(dot).com/watch?v=FgD6qR2Vkds
I see Obama 2008-levels of enthusiasm. I’m 70 and never had a yard sign for any politician and now a Harris/Walz 2024 sign is on my lawn. My wife and I will be volunteering to help (also a first) and have sent money. I don’t think Harris will win Iowa, Florida, or Texas. But while I’d be surprised, I wouldn’t be shocked. She may win any or all of them. Florida’s abortion amendment may drive turnout – we’ll see.
Harris county, Texas has a population of something like 4.75 million. if it were a state, it would be at the median population for the United States, between Louisiana at 25th place and Kentucky at 26th. Voter suppression has kept the vote from Harris Co from being as impactful as it could. This year may be different. I think Ken Paxton’s bullshit harassment of voting orgs will backfire and his harassment of Kate Cox will motivate a large number of Texans to vote. I don’t think Texans will forget Kate Cox & they’ll now have the case of the Florida woman who died from lack of abortion care to help motivate them. You must be at least 65 to request an absentee ballot in Texas, a victory would involve lots of work getting people to the polls. I’d love to see Ted Cruz gone as well, unlikely, but again, I wouldn’t be shocked.
Poll behavior moved positively in favor of Senator Obama’s candidacy about 09/24/2008. The 24th of this month will be about 2 weeks after the debate and then the effect of the debate performances should be reflected in poll behavior.
The other item Rosenberg mentioned was that in high turnout presidential election registration and turnout occur late. He mentioned about 4.7 % of the voters, 7 million, registered between 09/17/2020 and the 2020 election. That late movement is what makes the job of even good faith poll makers very difficult.
There is going to be a Dobbs effect. It can be approximated.
VP Harris is 18 years younger than her opponent. There is going to be a youth vote for VP Harris, but the size of the vote cannot be accurately predicted.
Excellent post by Ms. Wheeler. Thanks.
Let’s not forget the country was in the midst of a major recession and looked to be on the verge of financial collapse. Polls have never been predictive, just last month Wisconsin had a snap referendum to make a change the state constitution giving the legislature the power to direct where Federal funds are used. Polling showed it would pass resoundingly. It didn’t. It wasn’t even close, even in deep Republican strongholds.
In a Morning Consult poll, Colin Alred is ahead of Ted Cruz:
https://spectrumlocalnews(dot).com/tx/san-antonio/news/2024/09/20/poll-has-allred-ahead-of-cruz-as-they-agree-to-debate
I need to send Allred’s campaign some cash because I really would love not to see Cruz’s face in my news feed for six years.
Busy today. Had gotten an email about Oprah / Kamala zoom. One news site had a link to, you tube Kamala Harris channel. About 450,000 watching when I tuned in at 1 hour 20 minutes to ending 1 hour 47 minutes. Replayed to the end and writing down the numbers etc., the total had jumped to about 943,000 views, 3 hours ago. At one point Oprah said something about largest zoom. I don’t know if definitive. Long / short fun : ) Not there, but I love Tim Walz too.
Loved everybody’s comments in this post also. TY, emptywheel : )
Was streamed on other channels also : )
AP has story titled “Voters split on whether Harris or Trump would do a better job on the economy: AP-NORC poll.”
Why?
The only poll with him should be where on an insanity spectrum is he, insane, more insane, or most insane.
Makes you wonder who they asked and how they asked the questions.
Trump’s economic “ideas” might be focused group, but they are nonsense. A ten percent cap on credit card interest might be a good idea. It would delight those forced to live off their credit cards. But it would never get passed the banking lobby, let alone Congress, and that assumes Trump ever meant to impose it.
The same with his other transparent bullshit. He throws it out, like chum in the water, for the rubes. It’s no different than his cat meme lies. It is what the guy is best known for. He makes P.T. Barnum look like St. Francis.
Marcy on Bluesky:
https://bsky.app/profile/emptywheel.bsky.social/post/3l4lmlg25cc2p
September 20, 2024 at 9:01 AM
Yes…9/19/24 was a real doozy!
harpie [continually]: WTAF?!?!?
I agree that this isn’t important in the scheme of things, but I am absolutely baffled by this news. Like, cannot process.
Ew ew ew ew.
“Reporter Olivia Nuzzi on leave over relationship with campaign subject” – Will Sommer, 9/20/24
https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/media/2024/09/20/olivia-nuzzi-rfk-jr-robert-kennedy-relationship/
PopeHat [Nude Africa Hat…lol!] on the day that was 9/19/20:
https://bsky.app/profile/kenwhite.bsky.social/post/3l4kldijzls2v
September 19, 2024 at 11:06 PM
Talking Points Memo
The 2024 Campaign Veered Off The Rails In One Bizarre Day https://talkingpointsmemo.com/morning-memo/the-2024-campaign-veered-off-the-rails-in-one-bizarre-day David Kurtz September 20, 2024 10:23 a.m.
Brandi BUCHMAN’s first piece at HuffPo [with linked docs!]:
Trump Lawyers Cling To Supreme Court Immunity Ruling In Jan. 6 Case
They argued that Trump’s alleged pressure campaign on Mike Pence would qualify as official conduct and is protected by “absolute” immunity. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-lawyers-supreme-court-immunity-ruling-jan-6_n_66ec2155e4b083d40a2c52e0
Brandi Buchman Sep 20, 2024, 10:07 AM EDT
This race, like most local races, will be determined in the last two weeks. When people get together on the two previous weekends and voting, rather than politics is the subject, less engaged or politically insecure people seek validation. If ones peer group shares a sentiment that it is OK to vote Harris, or that Trump is someone we don’t want, it creates that permission structure. I am convinced this is what happened in 2016 for Trump, I remember the notion that Trump was a “what could we lose” kind of choice, and a lot of people and groups desperately needed peer validation to select Trump after all the obvious noise. There’s a month to go for setting up this circumstance, and when you see only positive data points for Harris, and only dog-eating, controversial crap from Trump, it seems to be going in the right way. What do you think the people of Springfield are saying to eachother over coffee, in the school pickup line, at church?
CFTFG is also shedding Republican voters; has dialed back rallies in swing states; has handed GOTV to contractors; wants to battle in the cultural sphere by hating upon Taylor Swift; all the while dialing up the unhinged and the BS. I suspect he will lean into ‘Dems are trying to kill me and nukes/world war 3’ as we approach the final month of the campaign.
Polls make assumptions about likely voters and fold in informed guesses about new voters. In the swing states, how many newly minted voting age persons are included in the swing state polling models?
Trump, being who he is, might be imagining how MAGA would take to the streets if he loses. Does anyone think the odds of such an uprising are zero?
I think we are rapidly approaching the “nice country you have here… shame if something were to happen to it” threat environment from the Trump campaign. The amped up rhetoric about World War 3, the seeming indifference to the polls, it all makes me think Trump is about to lash out like a cornered rat.
Incidentally, not sure what’s going on with the world liberty tokens (Trump’s crypto venture), but the way it’s set up is very disturbing as it will allow investors to pledge the WLT tokens as collateral for loans of other crypto currencies (e.g. stablecoins), which as structured would be wholly outside of the realm of banking regulators.
Meaning illegitimate foreign investors with dirty money could buy large amounts of WLT and then cash out with stablecoin loans they never intend to repay. If the quantities are large enough, that in theory could be used to create a liquidity crisis should those stable coins all be converted to a fiat currency all at once.
In his flailing kitchen-sink approach of grievance-in-advance, Trump also throws in blame on Jewish voters for his eventual loss – at least Democratic Jewish voters:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/19/trump-jewish-voters-election
At a conference on combating antisemitism, no less!
That’s some meshugganah chutzpah.
He is the anti-mensch
That’s putzing it mildly.
Just now: Georgia election board orders hand count of votes in US presidential contest
“Sept 20 (Reuters) – Georgia’s Republican-controlled state election board voted on Friday to require a labor-intensive hand count of potentially millions of ballots in November’s election, a move voting rights advocates say could cause delays, introduce errors and lay the groundwork for spurious election challenges.”
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/georgia-election-board-may-order-hand-count-votes-us-presidential-contest-2024-09-20/
So they can find 11,780 more votes?
Another “win” for MAGA “commonsense.”
JFC.
From disinformation researcher Kate Starbird:
https://bsky.app/profile/katestarbird.bsky.social/post/3l4ly2ffrga2e
September 20, 2024 at 12:26 PM
Now the MAGAs can launch investigations into “why the count took so long because Americans don’t have faith in our election integrity.”
More like MAGAts don’t have faith in our election technology, amirite?
Starbird with a CORRECTION today:
https://bsky.app/profile/katestarbird.bsky.social/post/3l4obdapyji2o
September 21, 2024 at 10:17 AM
Crazy GOP MFs objected to the vote certification at least in part because state election boards changed rules instead of legislatures and that was FRAUD!!! I guess a pandemic is nothing compared to the pressing danger of white male conservatives losing elections.
Back To The Stone Age starring GA republicans.
People are saying “Mark Robinson’s favorite porn is some of Melania’s nude photos”.
“Things fall apart; the centerfold cannot.”
W.B.Yeats, sort of, in *ahem* The Second Coming
Ouch!
Also, having problems imagining Mark Robinson as a black slaveowner of black slaves. How does that work?
What do you mean with how does that work?
It was black leaders of African nations that gave black people to whites to be slaves, there were blacks here who were “supervising” black slaves, there were jews that were supervising jewish slaves who were slaves.
Like Clarence Thomas, Mark Robinson – a thug in thug’s clothing – seems to confuse self-hate with love.
A number of free blacks were slave holders and traders in the antebellum south
It’s called “internalized oppression.”
Marginalized persons harming other marginalized persons doesn’t mean oppression by the dominant culture isn’t happening; it’s a symptom of its continuation.
I’ve mentioned internalized oppression more than a dozen times here in comments over the last five years. It needs to be understood RTFN because there will be Black/Asian/women and other BIPOC voters who will struggle with voting for Harris because of it. Systemic racism and patriarchy haven’t been overcome by the election of one Black/mixed race man to the presidency; there are thousands of years of oppression including the history mentioned in this thread which need to be consciously addressed for progress to continue.
Just came back from voting for Kamala (and Dem all the way down) on the first day of early voting. Big crowd, yay. A few more Rs than I would have liked to see, but my area is very heavy with retired military so it’s not that surprising. But the line out the door and down the sidewalk when we were done looked much more D-friendly, which was good to see. The Kamala crowd was definitely having more fun, that’s for sure.
No one has yet brought this up, so I might be reading it wrong. From the fourth paragraph:
“Effectively what Cohn convinces himself he’s seeing is that the Electoral College, which normally favors Democrats, may this year favor Trump.”
Is this correct? Doesn’t the Electoral College normally favor Republicans? Isn’t it expected to favor Trump?
Jasmine Crockett brung it this week:
https://x.com/ArtCandee/status/1836805721695920596
Lifelong Republican, and co-chair of the Iowa Haley for President campaign endorses Harris today:
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/columnists/iowa-view/2024/09/20/republicans-for-kamala-harris-dawn-roberts-iowa-campaign-nikki-haley/75306017007/
Jared Moskowitz to James Comer: “When are we going to schedule an impeachment? Or is this (holding up Comer Report) just concepts of impeachment?”
The way he’s needling Comer, Moskowitz is gonna cause ol’ Jamie to add a couple more prescriptions*.
*Chinese marijuana not included
Comer was on Newsmax saying he doesn’t need to impeach Biden now that Biden dropped out. Yes, he actually admitted that out loud.
we need a new acronym, TFG is now to my mind mild and inoffensive sounding.
am offering G.O.O.N.
emptywheel is inhabited by so many clever people, i bet many can guess what it stands for. but I’ll reveal anyhow: Great Obese Orange Nincompoop.
i googled “nincompoop” to get spelling correct. it may have originated as shorthand for non compos mentis.
Grabber Osculator Of Nubiles
Trump and Biden were two old guys in a marathon, Biden was a little behind but passed the baton to a much younger, fresh sprinter for the last 100 yards of the race. She immediately passed Trump and is accelerating.
Re: NEBRASKA
Heather Cox Richardson begins her Letters From an American for 9/20/24 this way:
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/september-20-2024
[emphasis mine]
Richardson then gives a comprehensive summary of the history of the Electoral College.
Then:
and ends with:
I think this ^^^ CONFIRMS what Marcy suggests as “likely” here:
From Ric Hasen:
A Last-Minute Effort to Mess With the 2024 Vote Is Underway.
It’s Scarier Than Expected. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/09/georgia-nebraska-north-carolina-2024-election-rules-scary.html
Richard L. Hasen Sept 20, 2024 3:19 PM
A G.O.P.-Linked Group’s Contradictory Ads Cast Harris as Friend and Foe of Israel
The Future Coalition PAC is targeting voters in Pennsylvania and Michigan, both swing states,
with contradictory messages about the vice president’s level of support for Israel. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/20/us/politics/trump-harris-israel-gaza-war.html Sept. 20, 2024
New Republican super PAC airing contradictory ads about Harris’ Israel record Future Coalition PAC is touting Harris as a pro-Israel Democrat in digital ads to Muslim voters, but attacking her as anti-Israel in targeted ads to Jewish voters https://jewishinsider.com/2024/09/future-coalition-pac-kamala-harris-microtargeting-muslim-jewish-voters/ Matthew Kassel September 20, 2024
[sign up necessary to read this…I did not sign up]
By all means, then, disgruntled pro-Palestinian voters should vote for the guy who just promised to ban immigration into the US from “infested” hotspots like the Gaza Strip. /s
Same with those who think Kamala Harris is insufficiently pro-Israel. Trump just warned Jews that, in the unlikely event [sic] that he fails in his re-election campaign, the blame would fall on them, with the implication that the offense would not go unpunished.
FFS. Harris is not a perfect presidential candidate. No one is or could be. But look at the alternative.
GOP selects 14 Fake Electors from 2020 for Electoral College in 2024:
https://bsky.app/profile/bradheath.bsky.social/post/3l4mbn27kvz23
September 20, 2024 at 3:18 PM
It’s almost as if having a criminal record were required for membership among the Republican Party’s leadersheep.