Trash Talk: Get (Fourth) Down and Dirty

Golf widow here once again, enjoying the dwindling days of Michigan’s golf season.

By which I mean I am doing more fall cleaning while looking forward to a nice cold Modelo and an entertaining book once my chores are done.

Lawn furniture put away? Check.

Outdoor cushions washed and dried? Check.

Fireplace prepped for winter use? Check.

A couple more chores and I can revel in quiet quaffing. I keep a couple lounge chairs on the deck through the winter to enjoy the midday sun; soon I’m going to park in one with a book and my beer and partake in the peak autumn color here.

I’m sure it’s nice out on the fairway but I don’t have to put up with trash talk from the rest of my foursome to do so, nor do I have to spring for beers for the winner.

Golf widowhood for the motherfucking win.

~ ~ ~

If you are a regular Twitter use you already know exactly what happened last night in Major League Baseball because it flooded Twitter users’ feeds.

One friend whined for hours about the Houston Astros (at Seattle Mariners). Another dropped offline because they couldn’t take anymore stress watching the New York Yankees (at Cleveland Guardians).

Best take:

Hell, I didn’t even watch the game and I could feel that one – the Astros-Mariners’ game was over six hours long.

The Guardians didn’t win until the ninth inning, which merely made the game feel long.

In hindsight I must not follow many people in my other Twitter account in Philadelphia, Atlanta, Los Angeles, or San Diego because their presence as fans was so much less obvious in my Twitter timeline in spite of the Padres beating the Dodgers and the Phillies taking the Braves out of their series with last night’s win.

Dr. Biden caught the Phillies’ win, though.

Good for her.

~ ~ ~

I’m just not in the mood for NFL football today. I’m hanging onto the fleeting sensation of yesterday’s Big 10 conference win by Michigan State’s Spartans against Wisconsin’s Badgers.

It’s not been a good season for the Green and White up to now. Every game has been a roller coaster ride.

Hah. Funny. Manzullo doesn’t note the fourth observation by Scott Bell is that of a University of Michigan fan. U-M is still ranked in the top five in the nation.

Next week will probably be rocky around here, and a good time to go shopping because every public venue except for bars with big screen TVs will be empty while MSU meets in-state rival U-M at U-M.

MSU is expected to get the stuffing knocked out of them but the rivalry is pretty intense and not factored into the odds.

~ ~ ~

This post is called Trash Talk, not sports talk so now I’m going to take out the trash

This tweet by Maggie Haberman crystalizes what the fuck is wrong with Haberman’s journalism.

Pure regurgitation, no analysis, zero pushback on naked hate. Her subject barfed up a noxious furball she then dutifully carried from the cesspool in which he left it to the bigger pond at Twitter.

Haberman is trash, allowing herself to be used for hateful propaganda purposes.

~ ~ ~

All right, have at it, use this as an open thread. Air out your trash.

And pass me my beer.

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137 replies
  1. Rayne says:

    Still so angry about that Haberman trash. This is exactly the same kind of crap the Nazis spouted and yet she couldn’t be bothered to point out the historic parallel.

    Nor could she point out that Trump has regularly spoken about American Jews as if they are foreign to the US, like tourists from Israel. It’s xenophobia she promulgates.

    FYI: ‘OPEN THREAD’ IS NOT A PERMISSION SLIP TO AMPLIFY RIGHT-WING PROPAGANDA BY REPETITION. Commenters relying on “just asking questions” or indulging in sealioning about right-wing propaganda thereby repeating it will get the boot.

    • Rugger_9 says:

      Maggie’s merely the latest version of brain-dead courtier press people. I noticed that there were all sorts of harrumphing about how the D’s are not cutting as quickly into the GQP lead in the polling because of the economy, without even a hint of introspection that the MSM reporting had much to do with it. They really don’t like the Ds, don’t want America to succeed (except on their terms) and really hate Joe Biden and John Fetterman.

      FWIW, there is a reason the Federal Reserve feels the need to rein in the economy, starting with the jobs reports being consistently strong, and the stock market (which really hates interest rate hikes because it costs them money) is paying its bills for the long ride up. If the economy was really in the toilet like the MSM says it is, the Fed would be cutting rates for stimulus not raising them.

      Also, the inflation numbers aren’t really all that impressive to me. My first house loan was 9% for a 30-yr fixed. Loan Factory has it as under 6.8 here in the Bay Area even after all of this doomsaying. The long term inflation number is 4% (it’s what lottery lump sum payments are discounted at), and for decades we were playing with house money. Also, any mention of inflation that doesn’t include the collateral damage to everything due to fuel prices is missing a key part from oil company gouging and MBS’s market manipulations and therefore irresponsible. Not one borehole is being held up by Biden’s EPA, nor one gallon of oil being held up either. Not one.

      • P J Evans says:

        I have, more than once, reminded some whiner that fuel prices affect *everything*, and that the WH does not control prices. This is Econ 1a: econ for people who didn’t understand it before they got out of HS.

    • Ralph H white says:

      Well my Braves went down and congrats to the Phillies, but my Dawgs are still #1 and looks like we’ll be hosting the #3 Vols in Athens in three weeks. Gonna be fun.

  2. Blaze Trailer says:

    Liverpool vs Manchester City, young phenom Erling Haaland held scoreless as Mo Salah grabs the keeper’s pass over the top off a corner. Amazing game!

  3. SunZoomSpark says:

    Here in A2 we can smell the couches burning in Spartyville. After getting >400 yards rushing against the “5 rushing defense” of the you’re shitting me Lions, the #3/4 ranked Wolverines have a week off to prepare for little brother.

    The fumes in Spartyville after THE Michigan University is done with them will be the $90M they committed to Mel’s diner.

    Sparty fans, next time, try studying for the SAT.

    • Ginevra diBenci says:

      I believe you are high on your endowment supply. Let me suggest basketball as a corrective. And as someone with four Ivy League degrees who taught at a second-tier state university, let me also add that you don’t know what you’re talking about, U of M notwithstanding.

      • Rayne says:

        It’s the urethane fumes from the burning couches, will do that to one’s brain. LOL Fortunately for A2, the prevailing winds aren’t from NW.

    • Rayne says:

      Can’t help laughing about the first year a family member attended MSU when the Spartans’ student body “celebrated” a win with a couch burning. Family member thought they were off their rocker, inhaling burning urethane fumes. The tradition doesn’t have universal appeal, apparently.

      • JVO says:

        The term “Red Cedar” (anything but it was the apartments where that regularly happened) will always bring that smell to mind for me since it was infused into me in 1988.

        • Rayne says:

          LOL The other smell which might have become associated with “Red Cedar” is tear gas. First spring day and the students emerge to party so hard the cops end up tear gassing them.

      • elcajon64 says:

        Couch burning was an annual tradition at SDSU. For those of us that braved the brutal San Diego winters in the Delta Chi house, the fire season would commence at NYE with the burning of the Christmas tree. Throughout January, most wooden furniture – and a few doors – would be smashed and burned in the fireplace for heat. The last weekend of Winter break would see the couches dragged out to the backyard and set ablaze.

        • bmaz says:

          Our daughter is gearing up for another brutal winter in La Jolla. They have racks for surfboards on their walls.

  4. Upisdown says:

    Is there any feasible way that information from Hunter Biden’s laptop could be presented as evidence in court?

    Also, How can Tony Bobulinski be called as a witness without first being granted immunity by the prosecution?

    [Welcome back to emptywheel. Please use the same username each time you comment so that community members get to know you. This is your second user name; you commented last as “JTarrant.” Your email is also very similar to that of a previous commenter. Please pick a unique username with a minimum of 8 letters and stick with it. Thanks. /~Rayne]

    • Rayne says:

      Exactly what ongoing case now in court do you believe the bullshit laptop can be produced? You had better have some specific point to this line of inquiry because it looks more like sowing disinformation.

      • Upisdown says:

        Wrong. I’m trying to counter the disinformation about the “laptop from Hell”, as RW media calls it, being used to take down “the Biden crime family” as RW media calls them. (Obviously you don’t venture outside the bubble very often.)

        In my opinion, there is no way the laptop could be used anywhere in legal matters because ownership has never been proved. It frustrates me that the MSM doesn’t try to put that present that inconvenient (to the prevailing narrative) truth.

          • Upisdown says:

            I’m not interested in “framing”. I’m just trying to get an informed opinion as to whether there is any possibility that second and third hand documents, obtained under cloudy circumstances, could ever be used to convict (name a Biden) as the rightwing media and politicians are insisting is on the horizon. Their whole story stinks like garbage but they are pushing it harder than ever.

            I’m no lawyer but even I can see major problems trying to enter any of those items into evidence. I was hoping someone here could shed light on it.

            • bmaz says:

              I don’t care what you are “interested in”, don’t screw with people here. That will not work. It is crystal clear you are not a criminal trial lawyer, but thanks for the admission. There are always problems getting things people “think” they know, or “think” constitute evidence, into actual evidence in a trial court, but we have been explaining that here for 16 years or so.

            • Rayne says:

              You are framing your questions like right-wing propaganda. Until you see that you’re not going to get a lick of help here because you’re doing their work.

        • bmaz says:

          We don’t see “outside the bubble”? What the fuck are you talking about, and where did you come from to so blow horse manure? You are in the wrong place for that.

        • I was mm201 says:

          Forget ownership and think in terms of forensic evidence chain of custody.

          It wouldn’t matter what was on the drive of that laptop, by the news accounts I’ve read, multiple people have accessed that computer who are not law enforcement. There’s no way to prove the validity of anything that’s on that computer.

          [Thanks for updating your username to meet the 8 letter minimum. /~Rayne]

          • Upisdown says:

            Thank you for a reasonable reply to my question. IMO, the laptop was poisoned fruit from day. But it’s now two years later and the right is banging the prosecution drum louder than ever. Complacency on this narrative is going cause damage, just like the decision to ignore attacks on Hillary Clinton over her server ended up giving us Trump.

            • bmaz says:

              Conversely, yakking about the stupid laptop gives the subject legitimacy it does not deserve. You seem to be on a mission here with this garbage. What is your mission? Because trying to focus this blog on the idiotic laptop, and rationalizing it with some garbage about Clinton, is not acceptable here. Stop with that, or be gone.

            • Nick Barnes says:

              You can’t stop the Right Wing Noise Machine from “banging the drum” for prosecution of Ds. That’s what they do. That’s what they’re for. Before the laptop it was the emails and Benghazi. Before that it was Vince Foster and something something Arkansas. Before that it was something else. The RWNM exists to flood the zone with whatever shit is flavour of the month, and it will always do exactly that. Politicians who want to pander to RWNM’s audience are happy to repeat, amplify, and further distort the lies and smears, because it gets them interview slots on Fox and Newsmax, which is free campaign advertising.

              However, you are on occasion in this thread referring to coverage in the “mainstream media”. As someone in the UK who mainly gets US news via the Wapo and NYT, is this genuinely a problem? Is the laptop bullshit often covered by actual mainstream media?

              • Rayne says:

                No, Mr. Barnes. Do not engage on this topic. You’re perfectly capable of going to Google News and checking this for yourself instead of amplifying this strain of right-wing propaganda in this thread.

                It’s one thing to discuss the Firehose of Falsehood but another to pick out specific strains and elaborate on them without adequate understanding of how to counter the damage while not amplifying the toxin.

            • Ginevra diBenci says:

              The only potential legal matter even tangentially involving H Biden’s laptop is in Delaware, hasn’t been charged yet and may be resolved without charges, and wouldn’t be public without a Washington Post story anonymously sourced from (I’m guessing) some more of those federal agents with axes to grind, who know exactly which WaPo reporters will gladly gin up their grievances into “news.”

              In short: little to nothing there.

              • Rayne says:

                I regret allowing the first “just asking questions” comment by Upisdown. I am debating going back and retroactively removing that bullshit content.

                This entire situation is a MacGuffin — a device which on its own means nothing but it’s used to drive a propaganda narrative. Everyone talking about the MacGuffin empowers the narrative when the narrative itself is intended to derail other discourse and investigation.

                Remember the “single server” which Trump kept demanding the DOJ release after the DNC was hacked? Funny how he stopped asking for that once it became clear it was a MacGuffin intended to redirect attention from other subjects.

                The worst part of my personal failure here is watching others get sucked into following the MacGuffin.

                Stop following the MacGuffin.

                Start asking more about the investigation into Rudy Giuliani and others who were skulking around Ukraine before/during the quid pro quo which now has deadly consequences. They’re trying to redirect your attention away from what they were doing to help Russia begin its assault on Ukraine.

                • Benji am Groot says:

                  Latest bandwagon here in Central NC – The Camp Lejeune Justice Act of 2022 gives individuals the ability to file a lawsuit if they were exposed to the contaminated water at Camp Lejeune.

                  I was going to opine that Hershel Walker drank the water at Camp Lejeune based on the Warnock debate.

                  Now I think some others here may have done so as well based on the seemingly deliberate RWNJ type talking points amplification.

                  • Rayne says:

                    Hmm. I don’t know that the contaminants in question caused brain damage, did they? Anyhow, the Camp Lejeune Justice Act is a solid precedent for what will surely come once the Red Hill Bulk Fuel Storage Facility water contamination has been cleaned up on Oahu, assuming there are persons who were sickened by consuming the water.

  5. Cosmo Le Cat says:

    Shortly ago on Twitter, John Marshall of TPM criticized Emptywheel for the article criticizing Haberman and others for amplifying Trump’s anti-Semitic (and other) hate speech. Marshall took umbrage that a non-Jew would have the audacity to “issue warnings or instructions about what we (i.e., American Jews) ought to do.”

    As a first gen American of Jewish descent whose family has suffered persecution, I want to thank Marcy for speaking out. Marshall is totally off base on at least two counts. One, her articles and tweets did not give Jews instructions. Rather I read her comments as pointing out the harm in presenting unfiltered anti-Semitic remarks and suggesting that all good people should be conscious of that.

    Second, it is more meaningful when non-Jews speak out against anti-Semitism, just as when Caucasians speak out against racial discrimination.

    When Kanye West recently made anti-Semitic remarks, I was most heartened by those in his family and community who criticized him, like John Legend and the Kardashians. Their voices mean so much more and have far greater impact on healing the wound inflicted by Mr. West’s evil remarks than umbrage expressed by Jews.

    Marcy tweeted “WILLFULLY repeating Trump’s hate speech over and over, with no filter or denunciation, was fucking idiotic.” Indeed it’s idiotic because this is what Trump wants people to do, to repeat his drivel, to normalize hate speech, to sow division, to appeal to supremacists, to deflect from real issues and to stroke his Saudi & Putin masters.

    So I say thank you Marcy for speaking out, because coming from a non-Jew your words carry more weight than mine, as mine might appear self-serving.

    • bmaz says:

      I am not a Jew either, but I think the pushback against anti-Semitism is fair and fine from anybody sentient. Marshall is a decent chap, but that is bullshit.

    • Rayne says:

      It’s not just Marcy at this site taking issue with Trump’s history of hate speech and pathetic privileged asshats in journalism like Maggie Haberman normalizing it by amplification.

      As a woman of color I know something about white supremacy and fascism from the pointy end of the stick. There are non-Jews who were and are the the targets of Nazis and their contemporary iteration among Trump’s base. We’re not keen on watching members of the media continuing to fail at stopping the rise of fascist hate. Marshall should be grateful for the intersectional pushback instead of policing it for conforming with his narrower worldview.

      • Ginevra diBenci says:

        This morning Liz Dye weighed in on Wonkette, adding her voice to the Marshall camp, saying that like Haberman and Marshall, she too is Jewish, and (I’m paraphrasing) the rest of us should back off.

        I’m torn. I believed Haberman’s initial tweet was an attempt to let Trump’s extortionist hatred speak for itself; in retrospect, she could have provided more context, been more directive in pointing out the issues to her many readers, but I could understand the choice to let his words incinerate themselves. Unfortunately, as you and others have reminded us, we can’t rely on that happening, not with everyone.

        I wish those of us who do see Trump’s damage and ongoing danger could stop dividing against each other based on mutual recrimination as to who is entitled to call out what and how. As a nonwhite American whose family expanded to include Ukrainian Jews and then Israeli nationals, I have argued about this with people I love, but we keep talking until we find what we agree on. Which is most things.

        • Rayne says:

          Imagine Trump had said the same thing about any Americans of Asian heritage, particularly those of a country which is in conflict with the US. Say for instance, Chinese Americans and PRC.

          We don’t have to imagine because he trashed China during the pandemic as the source of SARS-CoV-2, spawning years of attacks on Asian Americans — not limited to Chinese Americans, some attacks resulting in deaths.

          How would Marshall react if journalists like Haberman regurgitated without analysis or context what Trump had said? Would he push back on folks stepping forward to denounce the racism?

          I think we know how he’d react, how all journalists reacted in the US. “Oh look, dead Asian Americans! Meanwhile, Trump complains about the ‘China flu’.”

          This can’t be left to one group, the ones targeted. It’s as if Niemöller’s words have been utterly forgotten.

          First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

          Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

          Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

          Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

          — Martin Niemöller

          • Ginevra diBenci says:

            I agree with you, Rayne. (In case I wasn’t clear above.) In many cases involving rights and advocacy, nothing would happen if those outside the targeted group did nothing. Scapegoating and silencing go hand in hand, and hatred–fueled by the fear that Trump and MAGA create and exploit–accomplishes both in ways both blatant and insidious.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      If that’s his criticism of Marcy, Josh Marshall is way out over his skis and in for a bad landing.

    • BirdGardener says:

      My Jewish spouse’s parents, whose extended families were murdered by the Nazis, were utterly opposed to the establishment of Israel as a religious democracy. Not every Jew was or is a Zionist. My in-laws were Marxists, and had strong philosophical objections to state religions (as do I, but my opinion is not relevant here).

      Re-stating for emphasis: not every Jew supports every Israeli policy, or thought the foundation of Israel was a good idea.

      • TobiasBaskin says:

        My grandfather, an orthodox rabbi, was adamantly opposed to the creation of the state of Israel because he believed that the creation of the 3rd temple was a job for only the Messiah.

        • Rayne says:

          That’s interesting, thanks for sharing. I’ll have to read up on this perspective. I’m a lapsed Catholic, don’t recall from my years of catechism any discussion of the temples and yet the temples underpin Christian theology.

      • earthworm says:

        birdgardener:
        ditto mine (grandparents), German assimilationists, who strongly disagreed with the zionists.

  6. Rugger_9 says:

    I also thought it very odd that Individual-1 would go after his Jewish backers like he did. Recall that the dominionists have spent a lot of time, $$$ and ink trying to build bridges (i.e. the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews – IFCJ) with some pretty big names like Mike Huckabee leading the way. Even allowing for the fact that Mike is fundraising (for himself) the evangelicals can’t be pleased to see the torch that TFG is taking to the bridge they’ve been able to build.

    Even though the evangelicals will claim Individual-1 isn’t speaking for them, they are perfectly fine that he does nonetheless lead them in a de facto way. Will another updated version of Kristallnacht be far behind from the GQP / MAGA cult?

    • BirdGardener says:

      I never believed either Trump or the evangelical wing of the GOP truly accepted Jews or Judaism, it’s only that after 9/11, they hated Israel’s neighbors much more. ‘The enemy of my enemy is my friend….for now.’

      Sorry to be so grim.

      Could be wrong, of course.

      • hester says:

        “I never believed either Trump or the evangelical wing of the GOP truly accepted Jews or Judaism”

        lol, of course not. Evangelicals believe that we Yids and esp. Israeli Jews have to convert so Jesus Christ will return. I’ve got news for them.. we won’t be converting. I am neither religious, nor observant, but my tate had to leave Nazi Austria and my grandma and auntie were picked up by the SS.

        You are not being grim. I just finished a trilogy (translated from the Yiddish) about the Lodz ghetto, by Chava Rosenfarb, who survived the ghetto as well as Bergen Belsen camp. The last line of volume 2 reads thus:

        “Indifference is the only truth”.

        A depressing but good read is: “Everyone loves dead Jews” by Dara Horn.

        • BirdGardener says:

          This may sound strange, but your reply was a relief. I live in Trumpland, and feared a response more along the lines of ‘how can you say such a thing!’

          Thanks for the book recommendations. I‘m currently avoiding books that will depress me, but I appreciate the recommendations anyway.

          • Epicurus says:

            There is a book “Narrative, Violence, and the Law: The Essays of Robert Cover”. It has a wonderful chapter, number 6, addressing the Jewish concepts of obligation and jurisprudence and their relation to what Cover calls “the struggle for universal human dignity and equality…” The next chapter is a law-baseball quiz by Cover!

        • P J Evans says:

          They’re going to be surprised when Jesus returns and asks where the Jews are. Because they don’t / won’t / can’t believe he was Jewish first and foremost.

          • earlofhuntingdon says:

            They’ll be disappointed, too, when he looks like a first century CE Mediterranean peasant village Jew and not the six-foot Jeffrey Hunter or six-four Max von Sydow.

  7. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Dropping names you’ve just discovered and citing the NY Post as a source will not get you far here.

  8. Rayne says:

    They’re not getting it. I am not going to promulgate Fox and OAN bullshit here. They can scream in the void for a while.

    ADDER: anybody else who may have left a reply in this thread and now can see it, know that it disappeared with the original comment which was repeating right-wing crap.

  9. Marinela says:

    Was listening to The gray Area podcast, The Gray Area with Sean Illing, Neil deGrasse Tyson gets political…
    Good segment. Don’t have a direct link but can easily be searched.

    I think Neil deGrasse Tyson should be the next democratic presidential nominee in 2024.

        • Rayne says:

          He is so easily used by malign forces to damage so many groups, including the mentally ill.

          Black community members I follow are frustrated with him – he’s still functional as a musician and producer, but so damaging to their community and beyond.

  10. wetzel says:

    My son and I participated a river cleanup yesterday, spending the day in our canoe, part of a big group pulling trash and debris from the Chattahoochee River in Atlanta. This was an 11 mile canoe trip down a section of river as it passes through the west side of the city and then exiting south. It was a lot of fun except for one thing.

    In addition to the bottles, tennis balls, old lawn chairs and lost life vests, there were also several dozen headless goat carcasses among the debris. I’m writing this post because it was something to process. We would run into these when we could come up broadside to work the trash in the flotsam beneath a fallen tree or near the bank.

    The goats had supposedly been placed in the river after ritual sacrifice by participants in the Santeri’a religion in Atlanta. Supposedly there is a different meaning in that religion for the animal’s carcass to be placed in water than, for example, if the carcass had been left on train tracks. Before setting out, the veterans in the organization did say we might encounter a sacrificed goat in the water. I thought it was kind of an urban legend with the group, but there were LOTS of goats. Life is strange.

    • bmaz says:

      Wow. This has a James Dickey Deliverance goat vibe. Scary. But good job on the river cleanup, that is a fine effort.

    • Rayne says:

      There was an article in The New Yorker recently about decapitated goats in the Chattahoochee River:
      https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-the-south/the-mystery-of-the-headless-goats-in-the-chattahoochee

      I’m a little skeptical about the use of goats by drug dealers though it would explain the increasing number of bodies found and why so many goats and so few bird carcasses.

      If they’re mostly drug related, those dealers better watch their asses because goddess Oshun knows suffering and retribution.

    • Tom-1812 says:

      Wasting food is a real sin. I gather from Wikipedia that parts of the animals sacrificed in Santeria rituals may be eaten by the practitioners, but that doesn’t seem to be the case with these goat carcasses floating and bloating in the Chattahoochee River.

      Back in the ’80s I had a girlfriend from Trinidad, and we would often go to a local Caribbean restaurant so she could have a taste of home. Goat curry was one of the most popular items on the menu and I can’t help but think of how many empty bellies those slaughtered goats would have filled.

      • Rayne says:

        If you read up on Santeria, though, it’s not clear that the bodies aren’t discarded, and by discarded I don’t mean wasted but not eaten by human supplicants. Think about some cultures which rely on sacrifices to absorb metaphysical toxins, or to serve as a food for deities. The goat’s body could be meant to nourish a god — in this case, the goddess Oshun — which would require releasing the body into the god’s dominion.

        If the carcass was used by drug dealers, it would look something like sacrifice but dumping the body in the water would also remove evidence.

        • Ginevra diBenci says:

          The river dumping could also induce law enforcement (and thus media) to believe it was Santeria adherents, and thus blame it on “witches.” It’s depressing how often people still want to find Satanists or any other occult reason for the disturbing things humans do.

          • Rayne says:

            I don’t know if the river dumping can be regulated because it’s a religious observation. Very messy situation quite literally.

            And I wouldn’t be surprised if this dumping was used for ‘Satanic panic’ purposes to encourage moderate Christian Black voters toward GOP.

            • wetzel says:

              There’s a certain kind of anthropological way of looking at it where a sacrificial animal is a ‘surrogate victim’ in which the sacrificial animal stands in for a human victim. Those were thoughts I kept to myself. Thoughts started pressing on me all day on the river, though, which were frightening because I’m susceptible to delusions of reference. There’s a structure to delusional thinking I have learned to recognize, so it’s not a problem usually. True ideas need justification and verifiability criteria, but it can be hard sometimes when it’s happening.

              So this was disturbing, like ‘Satanic panic’ in some of its features. One thought that occurred to me, which I did not share, was that the manner in which we were finding these animals, caught up there in the flotsam along the banks of the Chattahoochee, must have been how Wayne Williams’ victims were found back in the 80’s, the same bends in the river, the same places south of Atlanta, so that was a terrible and poignant thought. There I was, the same age those boys would have been now, in my fifties, having a good day on the river with my son, and it was a good day despite the goats, not because of them. It doesn’t mean anything, though I prayed to myself. There is a prayer I made to keep my sanity, and the Lord said ‘okay’, which I thought was a pretty good joke on his part. It God is telling you jokes it means your unconscious has a sense of humor, and now you are having a rational experience.

              • Rayne says:

                I’d thought of the Atlanta child murder victims as well. It’s a far better day to run into dead goats given alternatives.

                I imagine Oshun nodding her head in agreement as well.

                • Ginevra diBenci says:

                  I did not think of those children from Atlanta. I spend most of my time reading and writing and thinking about them, and others like them, who’ve engraved themselves upon our bloody landscape indelibly. Partly as a result I am terrified of a resurgence of the Satanic Panic; it never completely went away, and is just waiting to label anyone the mainstream construes as Other as demonic.

        • Tom-1812 says:

          I understand the religious aspects of disposing of the goats in the river, similar to burnt offerings and pouring libations in the ancient world or smashing a bottle of champagne against a ship’s hull when it is launched. Still, if Catholic choirboys no longer burn in Hell for choking on a hotdog at a Friday afternoon baseball game, perhaps the Santerians could consider some doctrinal reforms to make lives easier for Atlanta area goats.

  11. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Imagine what would happen if all American news interviewers pretended they were Dutch, and responded to a politician’s refusal to answer a question with anything but a canned talking point: “This is the Netherlands. You have to answer questions. We’re not here to provide you a free campaign stop.” Kari Lake’s balloon would swirl away in the wind like a fart. Mike Lee’s and Herschel Walker’s, too.

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1581639837219553282

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      Oh, my, I don’t expect it to happen in the US. American corporate news owners are too addicted to non-news priorities: access, appeasing the right, with whom it often agrees, and false notions of balance, which serves to hide that right wing bias.

      CNN’s new direction and the NYT continuing one are good examples. Having set the bar miserably low for Donald Trump, thereby helping to elect him, the NYT proceeded to dig a trench for it in order to help Herschel Walker, essentially contending that his showing up to debate Warnock, but not peeing his pants, was a victory for him. Its response to Walker not showing up last night will probably be something like, “His best debate performance yet!”

      • Ginevra diBenci says:

        Margaret Sullivan recently issued a jeremiad in WaPo along these very lines. I recommend it but don’t expect editors to pay attention.

  12. DrStuartC says:

    Ok, all week, I had to hear about the vaunted Dallas Cowboys defense and their so called, high powered offense. Well, the sole undefeated team, my Philadelphia Igles, took the trash out to the curb last night. Showed us who’s the best team in the NFL right now. Four offensive touches, four scores, 20 points. Then, in the second Dallas set, oh look, an interception by the best secondary in the league. The Green Gang is back and for real, folks.

    *Stretched out my user name

    [Thanks for updating your username to meet the 8 letter minimum. /~Rayne]

  13. Rugger_9 says:

    The Niners lost again, but what seems to be a bigger problem is a nasty cluster of injuries. After last week’s win in Carolina (adios, Mike Ruhle) some of the players had noted complaints had been filed with the NFL on the fields causing their injuries.

    I will say the current turf systems are much better than the concrete carpets of the past, so maybe there is some more research done on the effects of the newer turf types. Given how expensive these players are, the teams have a vested interest in solving this problem.

  14. Molly Pitcher says:

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/10/but-her-emails-behind-the-new-york-times-maddening-hillary-clinton-coverage

    Vanity Fair has published an excerpt from “Newsroom Confidential”, by former Times public editor Margaret Sullivan. The excerpt shows terrible bias against Hillary in the pre/campaign coverage given her by the Times. I guess I will now have to buy the book to see what she claims is the ‘maddening reason” behind the editorial decisions made.

    I am guessing that Maggie Haberman’s work will be a part of it.

  15. Jenny says:

    Tonight on PBS, check your local listings, FRONTLINE: Michael Flynn’s Holy War.
    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/michael-flynns-holy-war/

    How did Michael Flynn go from being an elite soldier overseas to waging a “spiritual war” in America? In collaboration with the Associated Press, FRONTLINE examines how the retired three-star general has emerged as a leader in a far-right movement that puts its brand of Christianity at the center of American civic life and institutions and is attracting election deniers, conspiracists and extremists from around the country.

    Takeaways from the AP/FRONTLINE Michael Flynn investigation
    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/michael-flynn-investigation-ap-frontline-takeaways/

    “If we are going to have one nation under God, which we must, we have to have one religion. One nation under God, and one religion under God, right?” Flynn said.

  16. mospeck says:

    The soon to be freezing Ukrainians with their spaceX starlinks versus the russian rocket monster, and who the fuck wins?
    NASASpaceflight — ship 24 and booster 7 unstacked because of troubles with making it to orbit.
    NYT — Defense Ministry has pumped out a stream of videos showing happy “mobiks,” as the recruits are known in Russian slang, learning to shoot, attack tanks, tie a tourniquet, plant a land mine and other military tasks. “In general, the personnel are fully equipped, ready for combat operations and eager to join the ranks of combat units and to destroy the enemy,” said a soldier identified only by his first name, Magomed, in a Ministry of Defense video shot at a training ground somewhere in or near eastern Ukraine. An injection of hundreds of thousands of draftees might stop Ukrainian advances in the short term.
    CNN — (Uliana Pavlova ) Russia says high-precision strikes on Ukraine continued Tuesday. Russian Defense Ministry said on Tuesday that Russian Armed Forces continued high-precision strikes on targets in Ukraine. “During the day, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continued to strike with long-range high-precision air and sea-based weapons on military command and energy systems of Ukraine, as well as arsenals with foreign-made ammunition and weapons, all designated targets were hit,” Lieutenant-Colonel Igor Konashenkov said. Russian Defense Ministry also said it targeted a Ukrainian space communication center near Odessa.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZIqkYwI-mo

  17. Blaze Trailer says:

    Seeing the story yesterday about the loitering drones over Kyiv, I was reminded of the 1st part of Barbara Tuchman’s masterpiece, The Guns of August. How towards the end of the Belle Epoque the great powers tried and tried to get arms control agreements. Always a stumbling block – usually the strongest refused to give up an inherent advantage e.g. the British Navy.
    Now the beginnings of the AI war era are here. Will there be meaningful arms control? Not holding my breath.

    • Tom-1812 says:

      Oh, I wouldn’t worry about it. I mean, look how well we’ve handled the whole climate change situation. And if humanity can’t agree on any parameters for the use of AI, I’m sure AI will have some ideas of its own.

  18. Tom-1812 says:

    Oh, I wouldn’t worry about it. I mean, look how well we’ve handled the whole climate change situation. And if humanity can’t agree on any parameters for the use of AI, I’m sure AI will have some ideas of its own.

  19. harpie says:

    #J6TL Some timing from this article:

    What Republicans Really Thought on January 6 The president turned his back on seemingly everyone. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2022/10/january-6-republican-gop-response-trump-capitol/671752/ Rachael Bade and Karoun Demirjian // 10/16/22

    CONNECT WITH: https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/10/14/on-trumps-subpoena-and-marc-shorts-testimony/#comment-966727 []

    12/15/20 MCCONNELL congratulates BIDEN. TRUMP calls MCCONNELL [in a rage, hurling insults and expletives.]
    MCCONNELL to TRUMP: “The problem you have is the Electoral College is the final word” [] “It’s over.”

    1/6/21
    [10:40 AM] TRUMP calls MCCONNELL, who “purposefully ignore[s]” the call
    [1:09 PM] “Elsewhere in D.C., the head of the National Guard [WALKER?] had put armed troops on buses as soon as the Capitol Police chief [SUND] alerted him to the riot underway at the Capitol.”
    [2:13 PM] PENCE’s Secret Service team removes him from the Senate Chamber to his ceremonial office nearby.
    PENCE: “The last thing I want is for these people to see a motorcade fleeing the scene” [] “That is not an image we want. I’m not leaving.”
    [2:13 PM] SECURITY OFFICER [on mic] to SENATORS: “This is a security situation” [] “We’re asking that everyone remain in the chamber. It’s the safest place.”
    [2:14 PM] MCCONNEL is rushed “out of the SENATE, to the basement, through the tunnels, to an underground parking garage and into a car to evacuate him to Ft. Mcnair” [How long does this take?]
    2:24 PM TRUMP tweets:

    Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!

    [TIME?] TRUMP [at WH] “tells aides that the riot was Congress’s problem [] It was their job to defend the Capitol, not his. TRUMP begins calling GOP allies in Congress”
    2:26 PM [Two minutes after TRUMP tweet] PENCE is evacuated to an underground parking garage, but refuses to get into a car. [How long does this take?]
    [After 2:26 PM] [In parking garage] PENCE instructs SHORT to call MCCARTHY; [PENCE also connects with MCCONNELL, PELOSI and SCHUMER]
    [TIME?] MCCARTHY [Traveling to Ft. McNair] calls:
    1] TRUMP:

    “I just got evacuated from the Capitol! There were shots fired right off the House floor. You need to make this stop.” [] “You have to denounce this” [] “You’ve got to tell these people to stop” []
    TRUMP: Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are” [] [they must] “like Trump more than you do”
    MCCARTHY: “Who the fuck do you think you’re talking to?” [] They’re your people,” [] “Call them off!”

    2] MCCARTHY takes the call from PENCE, tells him what Trump has just said to him
    3] MCCARTHY also calls KUSHNER from his car
    [As leaders are being transported to Ft. McNair] FBI SWAT team arrives at CAPITOL
    [TIME?] [PENCE staff had heard that] “a high-level meeting [had] been convened at the White House to discuss the chain of command and how to get the National Guard moving.”
    [TIME?] [IN SENATE safe room]
    1] GRAHAM to Senate Sergeant at Arms: “What the hell are you doing here? Go take back the Senate!” [] “You’ve got guns … Use them!” [He has heard rumors among TRUMP allies: “that the president was refusing to send in troops to help secure the Capitol.”]
    2] GRAHAM calls TRUMP, who does not answer.
    3] Then GRAHAM calls IVANKA “asking her whether her dad was intentionally keeping the National Guard from responding to the crisis. He couldn’t see any other reason it was taking so long for reinforcements to arrive.”
    4] GRAHAM calls CIPOLLONE, and threatens to “forcibly remove Trump from office using the Twenty-Fifth Amendment if the president continued to do nothing”

    • harpie says:

      At FORT MCNAIR
      [Time of arrival?] [Around 2:40 PM? [see VIDEO]] PELOSI, SCHUMER “had been evacuated to Fort McNair, along with the other most senior lawmakers in Congress from both parties. [MCCONNEL, McCARTHY, CLYBURN, HOYER, SCALISE; who else???; also, aides]
      3:05 PM MCCARTHY on FOX: “This is so un-American” [] “I could not be sadder or more disappointed with the way our country looks at this very moment.”
      [TIME?] MCCARTHY to SCAVINO: “Trump has got to say: ‘This has to stop,’” [] “He’s the only one who can do it!”
      [TIME?] MCCONNELL [at MCNAIR] to MILLEY: [Please help dispatch the Guard] [“But as far as McConnell could tell, the Guard still wasn’t moving”]
      [TIME?] MCCONNELL Aide calls MILLER: “I have the majority leader on the line” [They were promptly put on hold; couldn’t understand why the Pentagon was dodging their inquiries.]
      3:19 PM Army Secretary McCARTHY to PELOSI, SCHUMER: [Acting SecDef MILLER] “has already approved mobilization of armed National Guard units.”
      [3:26 PM] House sergeant-at-arms IRVING to PELOSI, SCHUMER: “DC Guard leaders are still telling him that no such order has been given”
      [approx. 3:20 PM?] HOYER to Md. Gov. HOGAN [who has 1,000 National Guard troops on standby, ready to move]: “Pentagon has given those troops permission to mobilize—the top Army brass had just told Schumer so.”
      HOGAN to HOYER: “Steny, I’m telling you, I don’t care what Chuck says” [] “I’ve been told by the Department of Defense that we don’t have authorization.”
      3:40 PM approx MCCONNELL et al join PELOSI, SCHUMER etal in their room.
      MCCONNELL: “What are you hearing?” [] “Do you know what the holdup is with the Guard?”
      DEMS: [No.]
      SOMEONE: “Get Miller on the phone”
      [Approx 3:45 PM?] CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS to MILLER: “Why ha[v]n’t troops been sent in already?” [] “Where was the National Guard?”

      SCHUMER: “Tell POTUS to tweet, ‘Everyone should leave’”
      MCCONNELL: “Get help in ASAP” [] “We want the Capitol back.”
      MILLER: [We need to formulate a “plan” before we move troops.] [] “Look, we’re trying” [] “We’re looking at how to do this.” [] [Miller finally gave them a partial answer: It could take four hours to get the National Guard to the Capitol, and up until midnight until the building could be cleared.]
      SCHUMER: “If the Pentagon were under attack, it wouldn’t take you four hours to formulate a plan!” [] “We need help now!”
      SCALISE: [tell [us] how many troops [we] could expect to arrive.] MILLER: [NO.]
      PELOSI: “Mr. Secretary, Steve Scalise just asked you a question, and you’re not answering it. What’s the answer to that question?”
      MILLER: [We’re trying our best.]

      [Approx 4:00 PM?] MCCONNELL / PELOSI et al call PENCE
      PENCE: “I’m going to get off this call and call them [MILLER and MILLEY], then call you right back,”
      4:08 PM PENCE calls MILLER and MILLEY: “Clear the Capitol” [] “Get troops here. Get them here now.”
      [4:30 PM] SHORT calls MEADOWS: [to tell the WHITE HOUSE that they were okay. And in case he or anyone else was wondering] “we are all planning to go back to the Capitol to certify the election tonight.”
      MEADOWS: “That’s probably best”
      4:45 PM Phone call: PENCE, PENTAGON OFFICIALS, HILL LEADERS.

      MCCONNELL: “We are going back tonight” [] “The thugs won’t win.”
      PELOSI to MILLER: “Were you without knowledge of the susceptibility of our national security here?”
      MILLER to PELOSI: “We assessed it would be a rough day” [] “No idea it would be like this.”

      • harpie says:

        Also, just below that, notice:

        2] Here’s a VIDEO from the ProPublica PARLER compilation [their time stamp] 2:52 PM “Near the Capitol”

        That may be [part of] the SWAT team mentioned in the Atlantic article which there was no TIME for:

        [As leaders are being transported to Ft. McNair] FBI SWAT team arrives at CAPITOL

      • harpie says:

        Those 2 items are not [necessarily] connected…
        just a function of how my brain is working this morning.

  20. harpie says:

    [2/2]
    At FORT MCNAIR
    [Time of arrival?] [Around 2:40 PM? [see VIDEO]] PELOSI, SCHUMER “had been evacuated to Fort McNair, along with the other most senior lawmakers in Congress from both parties. [MCCONNEL, McCARTHY, CLYBURN, HOYER, SCALISE; who else???; also, aides]
    3:05 PM MCCARTHY on FOX: “This is so un-American” [] “I could not be sadder or more disappointed with the way our country looks at this very moment.”
    [TIME?] MCCARTHY to SCAVINO: “Trump has got to say: ‘This has to stop,’” [] “He’s the only one who can do it!”
    [TIME?] MCCONNELL [at MCNAIR] to MILLEY: [Please help dispatch the Guard] [“But as far as McConnell could tell, the Guard still wasn’t moving”]
    [TIME?] MCCONNELL Aide calls MILLER: “I have the majority leader on the line” [They were promptly put on hold; couldn’t understand why the Pentagon was dodging their inquiries.]
    3:19 PM Army Secretary McCARTHY to PELOSI, SCHUMER: [Acting SecDef MILLER] “has already approved mobilization of armed National Guard units.”
    [3:26 PM] House sergeant-at-arms IRVING to PELOSI, SCHUMER: “DC Guard leaders are still telling him that no such order has been given”
    [approx. 3:20 PM?] HOYER to Md. Gov. HOGAN [who has 1,000 National Guard troops on standby, ready to move]: “Pentagon has given those troops permission to mobilize—the top Army brass had just told Schumer so.”

    HOGAN to HOYER: “Steny, I’m telling you, I don’t care what Chuck says” [] “I’ve been told by the Department of Defense that we don’t have authorization.”

    3:40 PM approx MCCONNELL et al join PELOSI, SCHUMER etal in their room.

    MCCONNELL: “What are you hearing?” [] “Do you know what the holdup is with the Guard?”
    DEMS: [No.]
    SOMEONE: “Get Miller on the phone”

    [Approx 3:45 PM?] CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS to MILLER: “Why ha[v]n’t troops been sent in already?” [] “Where was the National Guard?”

    SCHUMER: “Tell POTUS to tweet, ‘Everyone should leave’”
    MCCONNELL: “Get help in ASAP” [] “We want the Capitol back.”
    MILLER: [We need to formulate a “plan” before we move troops.] [] “Look, we’re trying” [] “We’re looking at how to do this.” [] [Miller finally gave them a partial answer: It could take four hours to get the National Guard to the Capitol, and up until midnight until the building could be cleared.]
    SCHUMER: “If the Pentagon were under attack, it wouldn’t take you four hours to formulate a plan!” [] “We need help now!”
    SCALISE: [tell [us] how many troops [we] could expect to arrive.] MILLER: [NO.]
    PELOSI: “Mr. Secretary, Steve Scalise just asked you a question, and you’re not answering it. What’s the answer to that question?”
    MILLER: [We’re trying our best.]

    [Approx 4:00 PM?] MCCONNELL / PELOSI et al call PENCE
    PENCE: “I’m going to get off this call and call them [MILLER and MILLEY], then call you right back,”
    4:08 PM PENCE calls MILLER and MILLEY: “Clear the Capitol” [] “Get troops here. Get them here now.”
    [4:30 PM] SHORT calls MEADOWS: [to tell the WHITE HOUSE that they were okay. And in case he or anyone else was wondering] “we are all planning to go back to the Capitol to certify the election tonight.”

    MEADOWS to SHORT: “That’s probably best”

    4:45 PM Phone call: PENCE, PENTAGON OFFICIALS, HILL LEADERS.

    MCCONNELL: “We are going back tonight” [] “The thugs won’t win.”
    PELOSI to MILLER: “Were you without knowledge of the susceptibility of our national security here?”
    MILLER to PELOSI: “We assessed it would be a rough day” [] “No idea it would be like this.”

  21. mospeck says:

    My sister told me not to, but I just doom-scrolled my way all through the day 2 days ago, and around 3 AM my 15 year old 3-leg Motorboat had a bad dream and got spooked by the giant full moon over top the pine trees. Also, he used to bag like 20 a year, but now he’s so old he can’t even catch the mouse in the house no more. Her mate’s up on the hill, but she’s invincible and eats the cheerios regular every night. We can both hear her munching away out in the kitchen while Motie just sits on my stomach and doesn’t even try because he knows he can’t catch her. So 3AM tonight figures to be another terrible long hour of the wolf with vlad the great up against it in Kherson declaring martial law and threatening to defend it with nukes. So just kiss me deadly already
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOtApnSjX1Y
    still in spite of this overwhelming adversity one has to persist in being an optimist
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYnySGM9dQA

  22. harpie says:

    NEW in today’s OK trial:
    We learn the timing of the #J6TL Kellye SORELLE video.
    Here’s where EUREKA [I really miss you!] brought that into the conversation:
    https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/04/06/anatomy-of-a-secret-january-6-potential-cooperation-agreement/#comment-888453

    https://twitter.com/rparloff/status/1583127820460781569
    12:07 PM · Oct 20, 2022

    This was posted around 2:12 – 2:16pm. It’s in the East Plaza.

    Watkins & Stack 1 have entered restricted area. eventually reach east plaza also.

    Sorelle: this isn’t a bad thing and you can’t be scared. this is waht you have to do. otherwise you end up as communist little peasants […]

    And, there’s evidently more SORELLE video I have not yet seen.

    • harpie says:

      https://twitter.com/mentack/status/1380938916900052996
      1:41 PM · Apr 10, 2021 [VIDEO] [EUREKA’s transcription]:

      I wanna show y’all somethin. Probably one of the coolest damn things I’ve ever seen in my entire life.
      I’m tellin you right now, Government. People are pissed!
      But you guys need to watch.
      They broke the line, guys. People are goin’.
      This isn’t a bad thing and you can’t be scared.
      This is whatcha do. Otherwise you end up assss [pause] – communist, little peasants. And little societies where you have no ability, no voice, no vote. You’re basically slaves.
      But this is what happens when the people are pissed and when they rise up.
      So you know what guys? It’s pretty amazing.
      You guys should enjoy it, they broke the barrier. They got up there.
      They may end up inside before it’s all said and done, and that’s OK too.
      It’s how you take your government back. Ya literally take it back!
      [sigh] Arright good luck everybody. Enjoy. Have fun. God bless.

    • harpie says:

      Two takes on the new [to me at least] extension to the VIDEO:

      1] Parloff at link above:

      SoRelle: here’s your silent majority. .they did block a giant truck coming down from the mall.. there’s another line that’s forced down there, they’ve got traffic, they’ve got emergency vehicles stopping them. these are your patriots that got through. … the storm has showed up.

      Agent Drew explains that “the storm” comes from QAnon conspiracy theory. /83

      2] https://twitter.com/Brandi_Buchman/status/1583129247325253632
      12:13 PM · Oct 20, 2022

      Kellye SoRelle on FBLive 2:12PM-2:16PM on E. Plaza […]

      She’s walking behind Rhodes and they are now at base of east Capitol steps. From base of Capitol stairs, SoRelle says:

      “Here’s your silent majority folks. Oh, and just for the record, they did block a giant truck coming down from the other end of the mall so these are the ones that got through. but there’s still another line that’s forced down there.

      SoRelle, invokes Q-Anon: “They’ve got traffic. They’ve got emergency vehicles stopping them. But these are your patriots that got through. we’ll see whats happening. the storm. the storm has arrived. its pretty balmy and blistery here in dc but the storm has showed up”

    • harpie says:

      More SORELLE Live Stream:
      1] https://twitter.com/rparloff/status/1583129301133631494
      12:13 PM · Oct 20, 2022

      2:26pm SoRelle broadcasts now from NW side of Capitol. she’s still with Rhodes:

      “over the top, they’ve occupied both sides now. think we’re gonna hang til the 20th or what? just so you can see, they had barricades up. keeping us from the building was the goal.” /85

      2] Buchman thread, continued:

      […] SoRelle meanwhile on live not long after asks if they will stay until Jan 20 – inauguration day

      With Rhodes walking a the Oath Keeper stacks are storming, Kellye is still broadcasting from Facebook:

      “They’ve occupied both sides now, thing we’re gonna hang until the 20th or what? You can see they had barricades up. Keeping us from the building was their goal”

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