“Guns Save Lives,” He Wrote
[NB: check the byline, thanks. /~Rayne]
Discussion of the shooting and death of right-wing pundit Charlie Kirk has taken over other threads. I’m putting up an open thread so that the other discussions can remain on topic.
Kirk believed in widely-distributed gun ownership and exhorted their use to put down violence (link):
Kirk said gun violence was necessary in America (link).
Kirk also believed empathy was some new age thing, evidence of “wokeness.” (link)
“I can’t stand the word empathy actually. I think empathy is a made-up, New Age term that — it does a lot of damage, but it is very effective when it comes to politics,” he added.
Heidi Li Feldman published a thread on Mastodon to remind us of who Charlie Kirk was.
I have nothing to add which hasn’t been said.
This is an open thread. As always, please avoid any rhetoric advocating, glorifying, or normalizing violence.
Cory Doctorow noted Kirk’s death was the 46th school shooting this year:
Yes, and that was at least the second of the day yesterday.
Lauren Boebert – on the House floor – demands someone lead a prayer for Kirk out loud, apparently forgetting about the shooting earlier in the day at a school in her own state.
To the right-wing like Boebert, children are fungibles. Rainmaking fundraisers are not.
Spot on. And that would explain Trump’s deep and abiding anguish around this particular shooting.
Reply to BRUCE F COLE
September 11, 2025 at 10:26 am
A classroom of children can’t fluff his ego like an internet influencer can. For Trump personally it’s not just about the money but his narcissistic supply.
Children — girls in particular — are just objects to be used and discarded when inconvenient.
Good point about Trumpfluffers.
Here’s another breaking issue: the FBI and Utah State Police just had a news conference wherein they said they have an ID and a name but they won’t release it. Looks like an execution is going down.
Talk about a tell.
Holy shit, I tried to post the url for the Utah press conference in my post just above but I was too slow, so here it is…but it comes up missing now:
https://www.c-span.org/program/news-conference/utah-officials-hold-news-conference-on-killing-of-charlie-kirk/665477
Something smells. Or is that just Cspan loading it for streaming?
Reply to BRUCE F COLE
September 11, 2025 at 10:52 am
I think CSPAN’s servers are overloaded because it’s just really, r e a l l y slow.
@Bruce Cole 10:44. The summary execution you mention sounds like the justice meted out last term in the federal killing of anti fascist suspected self defense killer Michael Reinoehl.
Memory hole:
You forgot to put quotes around “justice,” lol.
Yes, that came to mind as I was watching the cops trying to explain why they didn’t want to make the suspect’s name and image public.
What also makes this different, though, is that Reinoehl was facing fascist aggressors committing crimes themselves in his vicinity when he shot the guy, whereas this shooting was targeted at an (assumed) aggressor in the media realm. Seems like the response might be ramped up a bit this time.
I’m trying to decide if I should lower my flag, which is flying upside down these days, to half mast. Upside-down means a net up for going down, so I might do it.
I’ve been looking carefully at the video the FBI posted showing the alleged shooter running across the roof, dropping one story to the ground and running off. He appears to be carrying something made of cloth–a bag or an article of clothing–but it doesn’t look to me like a rifle. If I’m right, how is it that his rifle was found in the woods some short distance away?
Likely broke down into his backpack, although I’d defer to a gun enthusiast regarding whether the barrel of the .30 caliber rifle they found would fit diagonally in it.
To me he looked like he was limping after that steep drop from the bldg ledge. If he had a sprain or other more serious injury from that controlled fall, the weight of the gun would likely have been a hindrance in his escape.
In an OT thread in a Trump post Marcy put up just before the assassination of Kirk, I was freaking out about the cops refusing to release the suspect’s image and info (which they indicated the had) in their first presser after the shooting. They got serious pushback from the journos in attendance, and the photos and videos were released shortly thereafter. Still no ID of the guy though, which seems to me like they’d have him pegged by now. They mentioned a palm print and other leavings which indicates that they probably have his DNA (not that everyone can be traced by DNA, but a huge percentage of Americans can. In that presser, they also indicated they knew who he is iirc, although I still can’t access the damn cspan video.
Never-Trumper Matthew Dowd was fired as an MSNBC paid consultant this afternoon for remarks he made about Charlie Kirk on Katy Tur’s afternoon show today.
https://deadline.com/2025/09/msnbc-charlie-kirk-matthew-dowd-1236528248/
What he said:
Dowd’s intro about shooting in celebration makes no sense. The probability of that shot being a coincidence is vanishingly small.
The rest of his comment seems straight forward. It’s just that honesty has a small place in today’s media.
The most likely scenario is a highly skilled marksman and targeted assassination. Reasonably long distance, a single shot fired, not apprehended, indicates someone who knew exactly what they were doing and had their exit route well planned.
[Heads up: one too many “o” in scrooge triggered auto-moderation on both your comments. I’ve fixed it; check your browser’s autofill and cache. /~Rayne]
[intro aside: Rayne, I did it again: I forgot whether I’m in with this email or my personal domain email; I will circle back here to see and I will make an actual note! apologies]
I don’t know who shot the shot. But firstly, if you look around at commentary from shooting instructors, marksmen, etc., the overwhelming consensus is that this was a very achievable shot for an amateur with a little experience propping a long gun.
Admittedly, yes, the first shot achieved the objective.
Otherwise, as for pre and post-shooting opsec, all the same people were saying all the same stuff about Luigi Mangione at this stage of the game and of course he proved to be anything but a professional.
I’m not saying that it’s humanly impossible that this was something especially spicy, though I doubt it was. I am saying that what we now know does not in fact point that way with any strength.
[Moderator’s note: looks like this was the correct email address; it’s the one you used for 78 comments to date. /~Rayne]
(Sorry, Rayne, I didn’t make a note what user name I used last time.)
Something I find peculiar about this shooting, like that of the United Healthcare executive, is that the old rule of “first consider the spouse” no longer applies. Republicans want to make this political, and the press follows along. We all do, right?
So, to all Republican tradwives, take note: if your husband is gunned down in public, you can keep the house, the kids, and all the money. No one will suspect you or your second cousin who was a Marine or a wanna-be Marine. Something to think about the next time he gaslights you about his personal assistant.
Note: this is not a call to intimate partner violence. It’s an observation about how the administration is treating these crimes.
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I think we forget what kind of quislings NBC and its subsidiaries contain because they host more left-of-center content than any other broadcast and cable network. They have zero appreciation for the First Amendment on which they’ve built their business, and less appreciation for the painful truth.
Advocate for violence, get violence. As ye sow, so shall ye reap. Maybe Dowd should have tacked on some bible verses, might have saved his job.
The words Matthew Dowd spoke were nothing compared to the language that Charlie Kirk used every day. I didn’t understand the ‘celebration’ reference, but that is certainly not grounds for firing. In fact I never paid attention to Kirk, and hoped he would survive although as an ER nurse I was pretty sure from witness comments that he bled out on the way to the hospital. Today I read the stuff he barked at his crowds, and every word was really hateful. He even hated words such as “empathy.”
I really don’t think that M. Dowd deserved what he got. I would not have wished Charlie’s fate on Kirk either, but Karma can really be a bitch.
I picture NBC toting the scalp of sacrifice Matt Dowd with the obsequious eagerness of a retriever, wagging their tail as they deposit it at Trump’s feet. “Look! See what we did for you?” they will pant as he kicks it away.
MSNBC’s “continuing coverage” last night was notably deferential to Kirk, as if conceding for the occasion that he was indeed the lion the right insists. I tuned in from time to time, mainly to see what effect the Trump administration’s depredations of the FBI were having on the investigation–things like the local SSA having been fired three weeks ago and Kash taking over the messaging, which he bungled.
But aside from Chris O’Leary, a retired FBI counter-terrorism expert, I found little of interest.
This is reminiscent of when Trump got his ear grazed last year, that Katy Tur (and/or her producers) actually got Eric Trump into the studio in a chair at the anchor desk with her so she could conduct a “tea and sympathy” session with him in person. Otherwise MSNBC would have no reason whatsoever to ever “interview” Eric for one of their shows. It was very smarmy and chummy and strange to see.
As for Dowd, a former chief strategist for the GW Bush 2004 campaign, despite trying to clarify what he really intended by his remarks later on social media, he got the full “Apprentice” treatment from NBC – you’re fired!
Also, since I’m a cord-cutter and don’t have access to live MSNBC shows (only uploaded clips to YouTube), this explains why no clips were uploaded to YT after Chris Hayes’ show – they were too busy breathlessly semi-lionizing Kirk, per your description, on live TV).
The coverage last evening was boring. They’re still at it today and its still boring. If the msm spent as much time on child sexual abuse and the buying and selling of children, who knows the problem might get addressed in some meaningful way.
Nothing which was on the news regarding the killing of the young man is going to slow down the killing of people who others object to. Its almost as if they are glorifying what happened.
the Gov. of Utah had an interesting speech.
The young man had a lot to say and not much I agreed with, however killing him was not the answer.
What I’m surprised at is the carry on about the shooting. Its not as if they don’t shoot and kill politicians in the U.S.A. or having mass school shootings or a mass shooting in Vegas. I have read there are more guns in the U.S.A. than people. Men shot and killed Civil Rights Leaders, they shot and killed doctors who provided abortions–that shooter even came to Canada to carry out his “mission”.
Then there is the violent speech which is passed off as “freedom of speech”. Trump’s speech yesterday was one more like trying to ratchet up violence than calming. Trump himself has contributed to the on going violence in the U.S.A. He sent military troops into L.A., D.C. and threatening other major cities with the same thing. When the federal government sends the military into cities for their own glorification it creates an atmosphere of violence. The constant violence of immigration sweeps which simply barge in and remove people from the streets, homes, places of work–reminds me of Nazi round ups in Europe. Then off to the detention centers and then off to concentration camps. Trumps equivelent of that is sending people to countries they will die in or prisons in foreign countries they will die in. Doubtful any of this is going to stop soon and it is going to end badly
As some one commented earlier, you reap what you sow. My Mom used to use that phrase also.
The really insane thing about all the “Charlie Kirk, American Patriot” bullshit going on across the media today is, not one of them are playing videos of Charlie talking at one of his “reach across sessions”. And if anyone says or posts what Charlie actually said, they’re being accused of “making light of the dead”.
Don’t you think if you’re doing a eulogy for a person, and the only footage you can show HAS to be muted, you might ask if it’s even worth it?
Kinda reminder of when they fired Sam Seder, but later rehired him.
[Trigger warning on rape.]
“We made our initial decision for the right reasons — because we don’t consider rape to be a funny topic to be joked about,” Griffin said. “But we’ve heard the feedback, and we understand the point Sam was trying to make in that tweet was actually in line with our values, even though the language was not. Sam will be welcome on our air going forward.”
https://apnews.com/television-ddebd787f691448b959df11e79e4dfda
They always make their “initial decisions for the right reasons”–to suck up to power, which = Trump. Why else fire one Black or minority female host after another, culminating with Joy Reid and the weird sidelining of Alex Wagner in favor of Jen Psaki? Why else fire Mehdi Hassan?
Every one of those people dared to speak truth to power, in the moment. Clearly, we can’t have nice things like that anymore.
Thank you for providing a space to vent about the utter awfulness of this and what’s likely to come.
This is undeniably a terrible thing, for a host of reasons, but mainly because “retaliation” against “the left” is already being openly stoked by Republican lawmakers and Fox News pundits. Things will escalate and that is bad.
Equally, Kirk did not deserve this, and his killing only serves to validate the repugnant worldview he held, as Rayne illustrated. That is also bad.
I abhor violence of any kind because it is like a disease that spreads. I have been strong in my message on these posts and comments about the extreme violent rhetoric coming from Trump. This is the MAGA cult turning in on itself. We saw it during the election cycle.
But, I could be wrong. However, if it was from a violent lefty snowflake, my thinking would be there would be credit to the murder. Apparently, they can’t find the killer.
Look what the children and grandchildren of the historic billionaires of the USA have made. I am sure the insurance rates for all the strip malls and business fronts are going to go through the roof. We all collectively know where this is going. It may be too late to stop.
Thoughts and prayers.
(Charlie ignored that before the 1980s, people mostly didn’t own private arsenals – that was stoked by the GOP and the NRA. And funny thing, there were a lot fewer shootings before then.)
Yes. I’m old enough to remember when “going Postal” was a thing and school shootings were not yet a thing. It’s sad and tragic how commonplace gun violence has become.
As for the “2A” people, they uniformly skip right over the inconvenient “well-regulated militia” part. Do they ever even consider what that was intended to mean?
No they do not consider what it means, just like Thomas in Bruen where he conveniently leaves out the Militia Act of 1792 because the #2A was ratified in 1791. The Founder’s were alive in 1792 and that Act clearly spells out the responsibilities of the Fed, the State and the Individual when it comes to equipping and managing a militia.
Unfortunately our liberal SCOTUS members did not punish or mention that omission in their dissent. Speaking of sins, the SCOTUS is racking up a great deal of them with their decisions. It would be nice if their Chicago Pope would describe sins of omission and commission to those in black robes.
“Yes, people die from gun violence. It’s tragic. But that’s the price of freedom. Unfortunately, it’s worth it to keep the Second Amendment intact.”
– Charlie Kirk
Most Americans who are not political junkies like us, have never heard of Charlie Kirk. Fox News largest audience doesn’t surpass 3.1m viewers a day for any of their shows.
Whoever did it, was a skilled marksman – a kill shot from 200 yards away. Kash has already blown it twice today by bringing in two different wrong guys. Utah is an open carry state, for pete’s sake, we may never know.
Trump has ordered flags to fly half staff, for Kirk. People are asking what about the kids today in the 47th school shooting, Trump hasn’t mentioned THEM.
No Rushin Nativity Gurd, Armi, Navi, Air Fart, Cost Gard, Spas Fart, KGB, SVR deployed to Orem, UT on this 9/11?
Were millions of Mosquitoes celebrating by firing guns in the air in Jersey City, NJ on this 9/11 as Trump was claiming he could see from his golf course in Bedminster?
I think you are on to something here. It looks a lot like a professional hit to me, given the range between the shooter and Kirk, that the job was done in one shot, and the sniper had an exit plan (the shooter is at large and so far no reports of what they looked like). The speed in which the RWNM jumped into the ‘liberal rhetoric’ theme is also something of a ‘tell’.
In terms of rank speculation, I doubt the Mob cares about Kirk enough to wax him now. That leaves a trained sniper whether military or LEO. Most are MAGAs or MAGA curious / compatible but not all. The liberal mindset doesn’t permit assassination as a viable option, and FWIW the RWNM frequently cites that as being ‘weak’. I also would include foreign actors as well.
Perhaps the best way to process this event until actual facts are known is the ‘cui bono’ approach: who benefits? Convict-1 desperately needs the focus on somewhere else away from the Epstein birthday book (among many other Epstein data points) and the time travel hoax excuse convinced no one. Vlad Putin needs to divert attention away from the ongoing failures in Ukraine (enough to risk war with NATO over Poland) as well as sow more discord in the USA. Given that as far as I’ve heard we still don’t have the full Butler medical records (establishing gaudy deception as a WH policy) I do not put it past this WH to create another distraction to bamboozle the MAGAs. Kirk’s death would cause blind rage on the right as Watters has already shown, preventing the MAGAs from connecting the Epstein dots. Again, this is rank speculation but Convict-1 and Vlad would have no problem cooking up this scheme knowing what they’ve done in the past.
Lastly, Kash Patel has already whiffed twice on a suspect to pin the blame on so any trial down the road would be hampered by what is doubtless a politically driven hunt for ‘evidence’. Perhaps the UT LEOs will show some objectivity but I’m not holding my breath given how conservative the state is.
“Perhaps the best way to process this event until actual facts are known” — perhaps the best way is not to speculate and let this play out.
” The liberal mindset doesn’t permit assassination as a viable option….”
Not sure that applies when the red lines of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are crossed. I will admit that most of the liberal mindset is toward empathy and understanding, but when you don’t get what you give, things break. Remember the tolerant cannot tolerate the intolerant.
Charlie Kirk advocated hurting people on the left and recently a great number of transgender military personnel have been separated, so there is motive from someone that would be ascribed to the left. Then again Trump pardoned a great deal of violent J6ers that could be ginning up the false flag operations…..
What I see is that the FBI has been turned inside out and that hunting down brown people has left the door open for domestic terrorism to flourish from the right and left.
First, I do not condone political violence by anyone. I’m looking at potential explanations that make sense, noting I have very little faith that Kash Patel’s FBI (or Bongino, Bondi, and Bongino’s minder) can figure out who did this in an objective manner.
I don’t think non-MAGA servicemembers that were dismissed would go after Kirk (Hegseth is the one who fired them). They’d sue, not shoot as a first option. I will also note as a data point that the alleged TdA drug boat also turned back when they realized they were being hunted, eliminating any exigent circumstances justifications for blowing them up. That distinction didn’t matter to Convict-1 or his minions, but it does show this WH is willing to kill to show how ‘tough’ they are.
What isn’t clear is why Kirk was chosen if this hitman theory is on target. If true, hits like this are never random so this is a question to test the validity of the theory. I don’t think Kirk had broken politically with Convict-1 on his priorities, or with any other key WH minions. I still would expect that Kirk’s death is enraging the RW into blindness and a refusal to see what is in front of them.
Apparently the UT field office for the FBI has been housecleaned because of this assassination which doesn’t make me think we’ll get a valid investigation.
reply to Rugger_9:
That field office had been cleaned out weeks ago. It was not in response to Kirk’s murder. It may make the investigation more difficult, however.
@ Rugger_9says September 11, 2025 at 10:40 am
“…I don’t think non-MAGA servicemembers that were dismissed would go after Kirk (Hegseth is the one who fired…”them).
========
Kirk’s rhetoric —> Trump’s ear —> Trump orders Hegseth to make it happen
Hegseth is not smart enough to think of these things on his own. Hegseth is definately a “yes man” and takes direction well. Taking direction is the only type of cabinet head Trump wants.
Reply Greg Hunter: The suspect wore black long sleeves while Kirk was in a tee shirt. Top of the building must have been hotter in the sun. Guessing there were arm tattoos that were obscured. It could have been a cartel shooting, since Kirk was not as protected by security as much as Stephen Miller, and more public in trashing immigrants. Some shooter who’d been trained at WHINSEC — (https://armyuniversity.edu/whinsec/en/home). That stuff is still going, but rebranded. Schooled there but cartel action paid better and is more adrenaline active more frequently.
Rugger, I share the suspicions you bring up. Way too early to know for sure, but this benefits Trump on several levels that you mention.
One thing that is in the back of my mind is how for a while before the Butler shooting of Trump’s magically healing ear, he disappeared for a while. Days. At the time, it seemed odd for Trump to not be in front of a microphone. Then, (paraphrasing what I recall from a Ben Meiselas Midas Touch post just after the shooting), Trump posted on his Truth for everyone to watch his Butler rally. It will be huge.
It seemed like the propaganda pics were ready far too quickly.
Now a week or two ago Trump went silent again for several days.
And now this with Kirk.
Coincidence, most likely. But something feels off.
Unconfirmed reports are leaking out already that bullets found inside the shooter’s rifle were inscribed with “transgender and Antifa” ideology.
ATF says those are not confirmed, but somehow they’ve made it into the RW media sphere, conveniently reinforcing the exact mythology already insisted upon by the King.
Two things I learned from LG&M : Kirk was very verbal about releasing the Epstein files & the Jezebel blog stated that they had commissioned a curse put on Kirk from the witches of etsy. He had specifically mentioned Jezebel’s negative influence on young women. That opens the door to blaming the left, especially if the murder was to silence him about Epstein.
Ugh. So stupid. If witchcraft really worked, Trump wouldn’t be in the White House.
I see pictures posted of a ‘person of interest’ which looks like some college-age kid. Even if this is the real shooter (I have my doubts, see above about the FBI drama and skill sets) it should be noted that a lot of kids grow up in the country and know how to shoot (some very well). However, this is one shot at 200 yards which smells more like a professional marksman. I see no good reason to leave a gun behind anywhere it can be found, either when the Great Salt Lake is nearby.
Kirk was a huge amplifier of demanding the Epstein files be released. That his voice on this is now gone will benefit Trump immensely.
Kash Patel’s ham-handed mishandling of this shooting investigation shows exactly why you should not appoint an unqualified hack to an important position in the FBI. I do believe there are still some in the FBI who are dedicated professionals and they may get results. But Patel’s screwups, already with his premature announcements make me genuinely wonder if they will catch the assassin.
Or, get a conviction if they do catch the perp.
The 1 shot (that appeared to hit its target) resonated with me, too. Seems to have been done by someone(s) who was/were amazingly lucky or actually knew what they were doing.
I disagree with respect to the difficulty of the shot. Any hunter who is competent with a rifle – and there are many such across this country – could make a shot like that. Best estimate of the distance is that it was about 150 yards. The rifle that was recovered was reported to have a scope, which is commonplace and expected. I’m not seeing any basis to suspect some big conspiracy here. Most likely, it was a lone shooter, whose reasons for this act we may hope to learn when he is caught. Which may not be as quickly as we would like. It took 5 days for Luigi Mangione, but 6 or 7 years for Eric Robert Rudolph.
It’s probably wise not to speculate at this early moment, agreed. All we know is that the rifle was a Mauser 30-06 with a scope, a popular and reliable rifle for hunting and target shooting. A good marksman, whether skilled amateur hunter or trained pro, could easily make the shot at less than 200 yards . The real issue is the nerve to kill another human being. Can you imagine how unsteady the average human would be training his sights on someone’s head? That would take a very cold blooded shooter. Beyond those two points, I wouldn’t speculate. Besides the rifle, the only other evidence we have is some cctv footage that shows he’s a young man.
Netenyahu could be a possibility:
“Kirk, like others on the conservative right, raised questions about Epstein’s ties to foreign intelligence agencies. Up until his assassination, Kirk said he was lobbying Trump to release all the files related to the case.
“First of all, the evidence [sic] shows that Epstein was a creation of either Mossad, Israeli intelligence, American intelligence, Saudi intelligence, or maybe he was just a hired gun…that countries would go to,” Kirk said.
Current and former Israeli officials have widely dismissed any allegations that Epstein worked with Mossad.
While Kirk positioned himself as an ardent defender of Israel, he more recently showed a willingness to engage with other conservative commentators deeply critical of Israel, such as Jewish American comedian David Smith, who has regularly criticised Israel for conducting a genocide in Gaza and lobbied the US to stop sending arms to the country.”
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/what-charlie-kirk-said-about-iran-israel-islam-and-jeffrey-epstein
I don’t know about the the shooter’s escape plans, but I keep reading about a professional assassin who hit Kirk at 200 yards. If you give me 24 hours, I could round up a dozen guys here in South Texas who could hit Kirk in the neck with their personal hunting rifles from 200 yards in freezing rain after a six-pack, much less sober on a nice summer day. I’m one of them. We would never do it, of course, but I’ve seen my son make that shot on a deer when he was about 12.
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A lot of guys — and I do mean explicitly men — claim they can hit a target the size of a football at 200 yards under all manner of conditions. Just how familiar do you have to be with a gun to do that? That’s a rhetorical question, I don’t need more smoke blown up my ass.
My family are firearm and bow deer hunters. They practice every year before hunting and in all kinds of conditions, they don’t all bring home deer every year even though the targets are bigger and closer. The average person simply doesn’t pick up any firearm and manage to cleanly hit a football-sized target at 200 yards. There’s certainly more background detail about Kirk’s shooter than pure dumb luck.
Most certainly, he was no MLK or Gandhi. He was a racist prick that condoned violence against minorities and immigrants, and a Fascist Pied Piper. Ironically, his last words were a racist dog whistle. When asked how many mass shootings had occurred in the past ten years, he answered with, “Counting or not counting gang violence?” Maybe Meir Kahane would be a close equivalent.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/charlie-kirk-last-words/
The MAGAheads are going to turn Kirk into their own Horst Wessel.
Absolutely right. Fascists need martyrs, and the right will not let this tragedy go to waste.
I checked in on Fox and Fox Business a few minutes ago.
You are absolutely right. But I expect Turning Point to collapse.
I had thought they already had one in Ashli Babbitt, but this is even better: a genuine political murder, not someone killed by law enforcement in the commission of a violent crime.
What a horribly ugly time we live in. Kirk’s death leads us nowhere good. Disturbed and depressed but sadly not surprised at the amount of gloating online from (some) progressives and leftists.
But at least we got a “peaceful transfer of power” back in January .
“Charlie Kirk shooting witnesses describe lax security measures at event”
A college event by a podcaster needs security?
Next thing you know toddlers are going to have to go through magnometers and take off their shoes before entering daycare centers.
Did Pat Paulsen in his visits to universities when he was running for the presidency have security?
He did have an autopen for signing autographs.
Not really, it was a timeclock with his signature that he punched on timcards.
An event at Utah Valley University. It’s not like this was at an Ivy League school that could afford a big security presence.
UVU is the second largest university in UT.
https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/TotalEnrollment/State/UT/
Larger than Brigham Young U.; about 7-8K students smaller than the largest Big 10 state universities in my state, Michigan. IOW, not a small school.
Kind of important if you think of Kirk’s appearance and subsequent death as proselytizing, evangelizing, and radicalizing opportunities.
I stand corrected. Thanks, Rayne.
Rayne- you read my thoughts. Charlie Kirk in life was a valuable evangelical proselytizing “influencer” for MAGA and trump. Charlie Kirk in death? He will be a “martyr” to trump and MAGA in the short term, but what happens to his Turning Point Organization? Is there anyone with the necessary charisma and organizational skills to keep it going and/or grow it without Kirk? TBD
re Hoping4better_times September 11, 2025 2:29 pm “but what happens to his Turning Point Organization? ”
by Katie Mather
Turning Point USA COO: ‘Charlie Kirk will never be replaced’
Tyler Bowyer, the chief operating officer of Turning Point USA, the organization Charlie Kirk cofounded, said Kirk “will never be replaced.”
“I miss my friend who worked every day harder than anyone I know,” Bowyer said on X. “He is loved. He is with our Savior. We will see him again.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/live/charlie-kirk-shooting-suspect-identified-as-tyler-robinson-22-after-family-members-turned-him-in-to-police–follow-live-updates-124018853.html
First and most important, gun violence and political violence is always wrong. No one deserves to be assassinated, and violence only leads to more violence. A true leader would lead the nation in healing and mourning, seek to build consensus and lower the temperature. Seems unlikely, but we’ll see.
Second, there is a direct line that can be drawn from the NRA / GOP “gun rights” campaign, through the MAGA / Fox News radicalization of right-wingers and demonization of the left, to the increase in gun violence generally and political violence in particular. Right wingers don’t get a free pass just because one of theirs gets shot. I don’t know who pulled the trigger, but I know who created a climate of political violence and and I know who put guns in the hands of millions of Americans. Many of those same assholes will now seek to blame Democrats. Fuck them and their disingenuous bullshit.
Thirdly, Charlie Kirk won’t be missed by me. In truth, I know little directly about him, have never listened to his podcast. I have not paid any attention to his writings. I pray for his wife, children and family. Mostly for his children. No child should lost a parent in that way, and no child should have to witness what they have witnessed.
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I suspect Charlie Kirk is a happy outcome of taunting bears caged only by their own self restraint.
I also suspect that Eirōn is still chuckling…
All the news outlets are saying the hunt is on for the gunman in the Charlie Kirk murder. But what if it’s a gunwoman? Some chick who had it up to here with Kirk’s misogynistic bullshit.
There are lots of girls in Utah who are taught to shoot. And the gunperson cleaned up the shell casing, which is kind of a feminine touch.
I kind of hope it was a girl. Kirk worked so hard and so unsuccessfully to pretend he was an alpha male.
Alternatively, let us ask, cui bono? donald trump. Nobody’s talking about Jeffrey Epstein now.
Charlie Kirk was so alpha, his wife Erika Lane Frantzve didn’t even take his last name. Only a cuck would allow THAT to happen. /s
“Girl” and “chick” are probably not the best descriptors to use on this site, Harry.
Also, they’ve released a photo of the suspect, and although I can’t say with 100 percent confidence the subject is male, it looks pretty likely—there’s 5 o’clock shadow, and the shoulders are wider than the hips.
https://apnews.com/live/charlie-kirk-shooting-response-updates
I have great nieces who live in — get ready for it — Orem, Utah. When I say girl, I mean girl. You want their ages?
I dunno—do you think there’s a chance one of your great-nieces could have pulled this off? Do either of them look like the dude in the photo?
Assuming it isn’t another mis-identified person…
So, not that I know exactly, but I’ve heard that cleaning up shell casings is actually what a professional hit person would do.
And — girls? Chick? WTF??
Media
failco-option watch: The Chronicle of Higher Education insanely frames this asCharlie Kirk’s Killing Silences a Conservative Voice. His Movement May Grow Louder.
The founder of Turning Point USA was shot at a campus speaking event, injecting urgency and solemnity into a broader debate about political intolerance in higher education. …
https://www.chronicle.com/article/making-of-a-martyr
Their URL was far better. Have to wonder if an editor got to the headline and changed it.
Academicalese can wring the meaning out of the most acute tensions.
I believe the quote was as follows:
“I think it’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights.”
While I rejoice in no man’s death, I do wonder whether he would have been as quick to say this had he known how good of a chance he had of being one of the “some.”
I find the word “some” in this quote to be interesting as it suggests a limit. I doubt Kirk would have accepted any limit to the number of gun deaths that would have prompted him to advocate for gun control, but that’s one reason I rejoice at no man’s death. As long as he was alive, he could have changed.
For him, the chance turned out to be 1 out of 1, but for all of us, it’s 1 out of 67.
To me, that’s a number to worry about. But not to the pre-Sept. 10 Charlie. It does give a lower bound answer to your question about where not-dead Charlie might have set his limit.
One in 67. Where did you get that number?
Total number of deaths in USA in 2023 divided by number of firearms deaths.
If you break it down by suicide and homicide, you get a rather neat 1 in 100 for suicide and 1 in 200 for homicide.
I did a little googling and semi-hope these numbers are accurate. I say “semi” as they’re too f’ing high.
Overall lifetime odds: As of 2023 data, the National Safety Council calculated the lifetime odds of dying from a gun-related injury (including homicide, suicide, and unintentional shootings) as 1 in 91.
Annual rate: In 2023, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recorded 13.7 gun deaths per 100,000 people.
A 2025 Giffords Law Center report noted that in 2022, one in every 67 Black men aged 18 to 24 in Philadelphia was killed or injured in gun homicides or shootings.
Harry Eagar:
???
In 2022, firearm deaths accounted for 3/4 of all homicides (18k out of 25k).
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm
And 2022 deaths over all in the US that year were 3.3 M,
https://www.statista.com/topics/1294/death/
making murder 1/130 of the OA deaths, and firearms deaths 1/168 of that OA number; your 1/67 figure isff (for the year prior, but still).
I didn’t do anything sophisticated. Asked Bing about a week ago, which gave 3M deaths, 49K firearms deaths, divided 2/3 suicides, 1/3 homicides (accidents disregarded).
Asked Bing again just now. This time, I get 3M deaths but a Bloomberg Johns Hopkins report that is a little different: 47K firearms deaths, 27K suicides, 18K homicides, or 3/5, 2/5.
So, I now get 1:67, 1:114 and 1:184.
Stop asking search engines relying on AI. Go to sources.
Jeebus, and you claim you’re a former journalist.
“Trump Vows Crackdown on Political Violence ”
What is wrong with this statement?
Being self-aware requires the ability to analyze, contemplate, reflect and reason.
None of these things are in Trump’s wheel house.
“It’s a long past time for all Americans and the media to confront the fact that violence and murder are the tragic consequence of demonizing those with whom you disagree.” 47. As one who specializes in demonizing others, we are now can be assured what his deeper intentions are. As you mention, 47 lacks the capacity to have any semblance of self awareness.
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going to crack down on political violence, my heart be still. Does this mean troops with draw from Democratic Party led cities? No further occupation of cities? No further smashing of doors and dragging people out of their homes, frequently in front of their children? No more raiding places of employment with heavily armed military? Of course not. In our dreams. What Trump most likely means is body guards for the maga types and cancelling left wing or Democratic Party events.
I disagree with your use of “believed” in the post. “Advocated” is the word I’d have used. He made good money while it lasted. He likely thought he was important. Indispensable.
Oh, I think he was a true believer. I think he was captured in his teens because he was spouting the talk his mentor wanted to promulgate, and rewarded for continuing to do so. He could be both a believer and advocate; the strength of his beliefs likely made him a better advocate.
I guess he died for his beliefs.
“Utah authorities are saying the shooting of Charlie Kirk was a targeted attack.”
Ya’ think? One kill-shot from 200 yards away.
Based on witness descriptions, the shooter almost missed. In any case, they would have had to spent some time adjusting their sights, accounting for windage, elevation, etc. It’s not easy, but you can find Youtube videos on how to do it. That in turn means they did some preliminary casing of the location and probably some test firing either at a local range or some place more private where they could set up markers. The shooter also seems to have been determined to get away clean. If so, he/she may be starting a campaign and may be after similar targets.
If the shooter were a hunter, the shooter would probably would have had experience at this distance in elevation change requirements for the weapon if hunting in the mountains or hills, as well as actual experience off range.
I am not a conspiracy person but I enjoy conspiracy movies. In reference to Memory Hole’s post at 12:19 above, when I read that LEO’s had discovered a rifle in the woods, pictures were posted of persons of interest, bullets were found with transgender and anti-fascist inscriptions, my mind jumped to to the movie the Parallax View. Who drops their rifle and runs if they have planned a quick getaway and leaves evidence?
I will be curious to see who this person is if he is captured alive, which seems highly improbable.
Yes, so far, this attack seems well-planned. If it hadn’t been, the shooter would not have gotten to his perch without being noticed carrying long curtain rods wrapped in brown paper. He would not have gotten away. There would be more video evidence of him, and so on.
That planning would have included getting away while carrying those current rods, or stashing the weapon in a place where it would not be so easily discovered, so as to avoid or delay leaving evidence that could lead to him.
Reloading a round is almost an automatic reflex. It took practice not to do that, but to leave the spent cartridge in the chamber. I’m surprised the shooter didn’t take all the rounds with him and discard them separately. Etching incriminating evidence on the casing, like the UnitedHealthcare CEO’s killer, is not consistent with wanting to make a clean getaway.
To EOH: investigators found a screwdriver at some point: They believe he reassembled the gun, perhaps on the roof.
Then it seems odd he didn’t disassemble it and take it with him or leave it where it would be harder to find. (The curtain rod reference was to Oswald.)
Compared to non-take-down versions, not a lot of .30 caliber rifles available to civilians break down, although Browning, H-S Precision, Remington, Ruger, and Sauer make them. They are more common in smaller calibers. Apart from adjusting a scope, they don’t usually use screwdrivers. Who knew?
This article describes a few models. Accurate, heavy caliber models are expensive.
https://athlonoutdoors.com/article/best-takedown-rifles/
To be clear, you would not use a screwdriver set to dis/assemble a takedown rifle, which is usually a matter of separating the barrel section from the stock and receiver end. If the barrel is not exceptionally long, that would allow the bits to fit into a backpack.
You would use one, for example, to dis/assemble the receiver from the stock in a standard rifle, not something you’d want to do in the field.
I have my doubts about the inscriptions being real here. It would fit someone trying to pin the blame on DFH Libruls but no actual sniper would leave anything like that behind because it can identify who they really are. Also, only one shot was observed, is there evidence of other bullets at the scene (i.e. not on the roof)?
when i read the alleged descriptions of the alleged weapon, alleged transgender ideology engraved on the shell, and alleged shooter,
for some reason i am reminded of Dallas….
For hunting, the standard procedure for sighting-in a 30-06 is to set the optics so that the bullet strikes 3 inches high at 100 yards. This means that at 200 yards, the bullet will be about 2 inches high, and out to 300 yards it isn’t necessary to compensate for distance by adding elevation. Shooting downhill, the impact point of the bullet will be above the point of aim. If the shooter ‘flinches’, the bullet will go high and to the right of the aim point.
Charle Kirk was a very intelligent person.
Unfortunately he used his intelligence to spout intellectually dishonest Ideas, fomenting the demeaning, debasing, and discounting of others who didn’t fit into Kirk’s Caucasian paternal misogynistic world view.
Kirk was a cunning sociopath in my opinion.
I agree. Glib but aware of what he was doing and what he got for it.
I know one thing for sure. If Charlie Kirk was aware of all the empathy expended in his behalf, he would be disgusted. Downright disgusted! I intend to use this event the way Charlie intended, as a source of humor. I for one, will honor his wishes and expend not a groatsworth of empathy on him.
I just wonder if there’s a Russian connection. Kirk was not a valuable politician, he was for better or worse an influencer. His death is a perfect tragedy opportunity to rend the country at little practical cost. Kirk’s hit came in the same time as general NATO perditions by Putin, the hit was in my mind professional – for better or worse, with one glowing exception, American assassins are up close and personal. Even Luigi left a trail. Trump then aided the attempt to rend the country with his words, the kind of words this kind of operation would want to provoke. The whole thing just doesn’t fit the pattern of this country, and the target doesn’t fit the normal reasons for killing. Something grander is up
My thoughts exactly. Also, whoever did it was probably stalking Kirk for a long time, and found the perfect site. The target was almost motionless, sitting in a chair, in the middle of a big bulls-eye assembly area in plain view of a higher building with easy access to the roof!
Another possibility is some dumb wannabe, like that guy that shot at DJT in Pennsylvania. He just wanted to shoot someone famous, didn’t really matter who.
Saw a headline about slogans written on the ammunition. Could reflect genuine beliefs of shooter, or could be a red herring. Like finding James Earl Ray’s prison radio, conveniently labelled, with the rifle.
The right are seizing on this just like my bully did in 3rd grade when I finally had enough and hit back and bloodied his nose.
They will likely strike back three-fold or worse. I fear that this is going to get REALLY ugly.
The only nice thing I can say bout Charlie is that he died doing what he loved: Being a racist dipshit advocating for zero gun control.
On this 9/11 anniversary, I think that no one deserves to die like the victims of 9/11 or like Charlie Kirk: without warning, out of the clear blue. There is no justification – making it right or just – for such acts of barbarism.
There’s very little justification for *any* gun violence in this country.
While attention is caught up by Kirk’s death on stage, the tick-tock continues in the background: approximately 3 women are killed each day in the US by a domestic partner/former partner, and more than half of those deaths by gun-wielding men. (https://med.emory.edu/departments/psychiatry/nia/resources/domestic_violence.html)
It’s the guns; they make violence easier.
I’m not going to lie, I would not condone ahead of time, but I would understand after the fact, the following:
We know this incident was done by a skilled person. What if…this person was FORCED to leave their career in the military recently, because of who they are, due to the rehetoric and negative smears of the likes of Charlie Kirk?
Should empathy be withheld for a individual losing a career suddenly because of narrow-minded viewpoints which leads to loss of income, loss of a way of living, loss of dreams, goals, and ambitions – losses in so many harmful and hurtful ways.
How does one recover from the above when one person has caused this? Should MAGATs have an exclusive right to retribution? Just asking.
Then I think about folks who lost their jobs due to DOGE. They are in the very same situation with regard to the loss of income, loss of a way of living, loss of dreams, goals, and ambitions.
For me the difference is, to lose a career for who you are, for living your best self, is more personal should retribution be a result.
The 9/11 victims had no choice. They were victims of retribution at no fault of their own. Charlie Kirk did have a choice. He was certainly intelligent enough to know that he was choosing a life of hate.
This post is a moral conundrum for me and I am conflicted: Is there really never any justification?
What if the poor guy had to listen to his parents and relatives praise Charlie Kirk?
“9/11…: without warning”?
Maybe, or not:
from https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-bush-knew-before-sept-11/ What Bush Knew Before Sept. 11
from https://qz.com/549211/two-months-before-911-the-bush-administration-was-told-the-attacks-will-be-spectacular
Two months before 9/11, the Bush administration was told “the attacks will be spectacular”
Tenet vividly recalls the White House meeting with Rice and her team. (Then-president George W. Bush was on a trip to Boston.) “Rich [Blee] started by saying, ‘There will be significant terrorist attacks against the United States in the coming weeks or months. The attacks will be spectacular. They may be multiple. Al Qaeda’s intention is the destruction of the United States.’”
The people who died on 9/11 had no warning.
If we sanction people taking it upon themselves to be judge, jury, and executioner, we sanction descent into barbarism.
To paraphrase Stalin: One person killed by gun violence in America is a statistic. Hundreds of thousands killed by willfully spreading COVID mis-information is a tragedy.
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Your paraphrase reverses the particularized emotional response with the generalized ennui. The apocryphal saying, often attributed to Stalin, is a variation on, “A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic,” but we get the point. American gun deaths are a preventable tragedy, unique to America.
The last words out of Kirk’s mouth were about too many transgender people being mass shooters.
Until Trump denounces the political violence he incited against 140 Capitol police on J6 I couldn’t care less what flags he orders lowered to half staff.
No tears for Christofascists.
I’m sure the recently-appointed SAIC at the SLC office now wishes that Kash hadn’t forced out his predecessor.
“The special agent in charge in Salt Lake City, Mehtab Syed, is being forced out just six months after being appointed in February, for reasons that are not clear, the sources said. Associate Deputy Director J. William Rivers, who works for Bongino and Patel, told Syed she wasn’t a good fit for the office, which covers Utah, Idaho and Montana, the sources said. He offered her a lower-level job in the FBI’s Huntsville, Alabama, facility, but she has decided to retire, the sources said.”
(August 5 article: https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/rcna222988)
Female and not sufficiently “American”, at a guess.
Huntsville? LOL. The go-to job the FBI used to offer to people it forced to retire was in Cleveland. The “she” wasn’t a good fit for Patel’s bureau would start with the “she.”
JD and Usha were to attend a 9/11 Memoral, but instead are flying to SLC to attend a memorial for Charlie Kirk – a guy most Americans have never heard of. Priorities!
(…and this guy wants to be POTUS?)
I really think a lot of people are forgetting how well-loved Charlie was by most of Trump’s insiders, including Trump himself. Sure, they’re all psychopaths, but this is as close as they come to real grief as you’re going to get.
And Vance can’t afford to lose the regard of Trump’s base, because he hasn’t really got one of his own.
“…And Vance can’t afford to lose the regard of Trump’s base, because he hasn’t really got one of his own…”
True. I had not considered that. i saw it more as jumping on the bandwagon, as an opportunist like Vance does.
Absolutely, Kirk was VERY well-loved inside MAGA world. He helped Trump win in 2024 by bringing young voters to MAGA. However, outside of MAGA world, Kirk was not well known.
I am finding that the politically aware / news junkies know Kirk or know of him. Everyone else, not so much.
I wonder what Maduro and the families of the people on the boat that was blown out of the water on Trump’s order have been thinking. Maybe they like retribution as much as Trump does. I’m sure they could see how this would harm Trump psychologically and maybe even politically.
Oof. I admit I didn’t think of the possibility this is retribution for violence against foreign nationals with Kirk as a proxy.
There are far more than Venezuelans who could be looking for retribution. Iranians, North Koreans, any country negatively affected by the end of USAID…
I don’t think TdA has that kind of organizational reach in Utah. They’d stand out there more than in other places. Russians, on the other hand would not and Vlad does have a vested interest in creating havoc here to keep Convict-1 distracted.
SL, this was almost my first thought on hearing about it: what if…. Except that Kirk has no obvious connection to the government beyond “friendship,” so I put it aside.
But still, what if? When the President acts like a Mafia boss, mafia-style turf wars become more credible.
Kirk was also a big time ‘release the Epstein Files!’ MAGA until Trump told him to forget about the Epstein Files then- ‘Charlie Kirk says ‘I’m done talking about Epstein’ after Trump called him over weekend’
www. yahoo.com/news charlie-kirk-says-m-done-203647093.html
Kirk was one of many who caved to Trump’s insistence that they stop discussing Epstein; the Fox hosts did so too, along with other influencers.
All of which left Nick Fuentes stranded on his own platform, still calling for Epstein truth to come out. The night before Kirk was shot, I found myself astounded to be thinking “Nick Fuentes” and “integrity” in the same sentence.
Now I wonder if/whether the audience will return for the ongoing depredations–the rapes, the trafficking, the daily murders Rayne talks about, which can seem so mundane compared to this so-called “assassination” as it’s being touted by those who clearly stand to benefit from exalting Charlie Kirk. Those compiling his hagiography as we speak.
Medal of Honor my ass.
If you don’t already know, Fuentes and his Groypers generally has had it in for Kirk for years. Not racist enough.
That wing of fascism is a solid possibility for a perp, as are QAnons who think Charlie sold them out.
And Fuentes has a substantial number of followers.
Trump has always enjoyed stoking infighting among his followers and aides. He has long seen internal division as working to his benefit. So it is striking how quickly and utterly without evidence he is publicly blaming any “radical left” source for this shooting, when as you both point out, there are serious fissures on the right.
I am thinking also of Laura Loomer’s attacks on Charlie Kirk on X. Although now deleted, they are vivid testimony to exactly the backbiting that simmers among so-called “conservative” influencers.
Another distinct and real possibility to consider is that the suspect could be a member of the hate group, The Base.
Agree about infighting among the nazis. But it is also possible that this was not a political murder.
A fair fraction of what look like political attempts (FDR and Wallace and Reagan for example) have nothing to do with politics; and still others (Ford) are politics-adjacent without any meaningful political content.
I wouldn’t bet money that this one wasn’t political but if it turns out it wasn’t I wouldn’t be shocked.
If the casings do have the reported inscriptions, then a false flag op makes sense as an explanation to pin the blame on another Fuentes enemy. As I have noted elsewhere, the left is more likely to sue than shoot.
Meidas Touch did some digging into Tyler Robinson (who was turned in) and it appears that he was not only a white rock-ribbed Republican (enough to be Convict-1 on Halloween) but his inscriptions are Groyper based. While he isn’t a professional hit man, he did gets lots of gun range time and as I’ve noted above that is not unusual for UT. His father turned him in.
Kash Patel is of course taking credit for busting the kid, but I did find the MT report interesting in connection with the Fuentes feud. Did Nick have a very recent beef that would impel him to paraphrase Henry II (Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?) for a follower to do the deed?
Robinson has apparently confessed and in UT likely faces the death penalty (though I am not sure they still have it) if the feds don’t foreclose on the locals. It would seem to me (note IANAL) that there is no ‘federal’ interest here since Kirk wasn’t a federal official, it wasn’t on federal property but Convict-1 was Kirk’s pal.
To Rugger:
My civil lawsuit against the City began with the presumption that it would be in state court. But then it was moved to federal court. At least part of the reason for that, as I understood it at the time, was because a portion of the library’s funding was provided by federal grants. So, if the university receives federal money, I don’t know whether or not that might have some impact on where this ends up. Also, federal law enforcement has been involved. That may come into play as well.
re-Rugger_9 September 12, 2025 2:23 pm and Savage Librarian September 12, 2025 2:53 pm
Luigi killing of Thompson case wasn’t federal either, till it became one.
If you have transgender friends and/or family, please be thinking of ways to protect them. The fascists are looking for any excuse to escalate on civil rights violations of all kinds against persons who are not cisgender, heterosexual, neurotypical, Christian, and white. You can already see what they are doing to people of color and getting away with their offenses; going after transgender persons will be much the same or worse.
On September 9, 2025, many headlines posted about the DOJ banning transgender folks from owning guns.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/justice-department-talks-banning-transgender-gun-owners-spark-125302532
https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/04/politics/transgender-firearms-justice-department-second-amendment
…continued (glitch. Got posted without the finishing or the 5 min edit window)
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/09/06/trump-gun-ban-pushback-00547529
At the time of the shooting, Kirk was disscussing trans mass shooters, because of one recently. ONE! The Annunciation Catholic School shooting.
For whatever reason, MAGA have a real animosity towards transpeople.
They have animosity toward everyone who are not them. They throw their hatred spaghetti at every group’s wall to see what’ll stick.
The amount of trans people in the US is comparatively tiny and they have it rough just trying to live and support themselves even without the focused, weaponized hatred directed at them. Hence, they are easy boogiemen and targets.
The extreme Right tried for many years to do this to gays and lesbians but there are much more of us and we assimilate pretty seamlessly when we need to so the extreme Right weren’t as successful turning us into boogiemen like they have been with trans folks.
The Covenant School, private Christian elementary school in Nashville, 2023 shooter Audrey Hale was transgender.
@ Joe Orton September 11, 2025 at 12:54 pm
There is something to MAGAs fixation with trans people. I can’t quite put my finger on it. I’m sure their fixation with patriarchy and alpha males all tie into their trans fixation somehow. There is certainly a homoerotic feel to it.
@joe orton and @wa rickf: The fixation may be as simple as the idea that transgender people are flouting God by changing their bodies away from what God chose to give them. Therefore such people deserve any punishment that God inspires these MAGAts to dish out. It’s flat wrong but it does fit what I’ve deduced from their scribblings.
As a thought experiment, if one considers that the soul is God’s zone and the body is Satan’s (in keeping with their binary world view) then they should applaud (if not outright help) people trying to match their bodies to their souls. It’s expensive and painful between surgeries, hormone treatments for life, social rejections by close friends / family and the other torments that are a consequence of changing gender. It’s also why transitions are long term processes that ensure the patient really wants this before doing anything irreversible. In spite of the RWNM claims it isn’t done in an afternoon at school or flip back and forth like an accessory, but lying is what the RWNM does like they breathe.
Thank you, Rayne. This is very specifically targeted. The rumored bullets with “markings” won’t need to be verified; that leak has already spread widely, contributing further to the myth of transgender violence–a myth spun up by Republicans because it serves their purposes, not because it has any basis in fact.
The victims include my best friend, my nephew, and many others. It is open season on them, as declared by Trump, if not in so many words. We need to be ready to step in whenever we hear people spreading hateful and untrue language.
Marcy mentions Laura LOOMER earlier today:
https://bsky.app/profile/emptywheel.bsky.social/post/3lykxrx7q722a
September 11, 2025 at 10:34 AM
LOOMER deleted that Xeet TODAY, and added a new attack on Democrats, specifically Obama:
https://bsky.app/profile/fritschner.bsky.social/post/3lyl2cs4eo22u
September 11, 2025 at 11:19 AM
RUSSIA’s propagandists are also fanning the flames:
https://bsky.app/profile/vmorkevicius.bsky.social/post/3lykvbyrdns25
September 11, 2025 at 9:49 AM
So, a purebred RWNJ who glorified gun violence, stirred the pot, lacked empathy of any sort and loathed immigrants was assassinated in a red, open carry state immediately after the bothsidesism of making light of gun violence is rich to say the least.
Does anyone deserve to die this way? Nope. Is instant Karma real? Apparently.
My bingo card has ‘false flag shooting at NG in X (Chicago?)’ as the trigger for open violence by the MAGAt rage machine – but as some folks across the spectrum are speculating this may be the incident that begins the avalanche of calls for the Felon Guy to invoke the Insurrection Act and bypass Congress.
And Cletus retaliation (looking at you Nancy Mace)? This could get ugly pretty quick – and the only saving grace may be the habit of the MSM glossing over until the next ‘newsworthy’ blip hits their radar.
Who was it that mentioned living in interesting times?
This is just too fucking convenient for me. It strikes me as a deliberate effort at misdirection. The rifle was too easy to find and each round’s cartridge is “engraved” with “leftist” messaging? Oh, Come On…!
https://www.rawstory.com/charlie-kirk-shooter-political-message/
“The Wall Street Journal reported that an internal law enforcement bulletin and a person familiar with the investigation show that ammunition found in the weapon was engraved with what the newspaper described as expressions of transgender and antifascist ideology.
The .30-caliber hunting rifle was found in some woods near the scene of the shooting at Utah Valley University, and sources said the gun was wrapped in a towel with spent cartridge still in the chamber and three unspent rounds in the magazine.”
The rifle wasn’t left on the sixth floor of the book depository?
There’s pushback on that, plus the suspect in surveillance videos was wearing a patriotic shirt. So either cosplaying or not antifa.
Call Jack Reacher.
I’m tempted to call it camouflage.
Engraving the shells is something that most people wouldn’t do. But I could see LEOs claiming it was done, and doing it after the fact, in their labs.
If I was a militia looking to widen division and accelerate conflict this would be a perfect way. Militias are known to recruit ex-military and police, often well-trained, and have already attempted divisive activities like attacking substations. I hope authorities are looking into local militias.
Is the label antiFA even a thing anymore? I am anti-Fascism, but I don’t label myself antiFA. That’s such a tired 2020 term. I only see that term still being used by MAGAts at Faux “News” – never in real life any more.
On J6 when Trump was told some of the protesters had guns he said, paraphrasing, ‘it’s ok they’re not here to shoot ME.’ This seems to sum up what all the MAGA politicians and stars think.
So if the MAGA public suffer from ‘I didn’t know the facing eating leopards would eat MY face’ then it seems the MAGA politicians and stars are today be suffering from ‘I didn’t t know the face shooting leopards would shoot ME in the face.’
I suspect, from the witness descriptions (I have *not* watched the videos) that Kirk was dead within seconds.
Did not watch videos either. Early press statement that he was hit in the”temporal artery” gave me hope. But witnesses’ descriptions of him being shot in the neck proved reliable; it was clearly a carotid artery–which meant that, as you say, PJ Evans, he could not live longer than a few minutes.
I was considering that the bullet’s impact probably damaged his spine and brain, also.
I watched it. I think he was dead before he hit the ground. I don’t care what they said about dying in the hospital. There is not a lot of unnecessary territory in your neck.
usually being dead before hitting the ground is sudden heart failure (or major artery in chest) failing – I have a news clipping about a woman who screamed and was dead when she hit the ground.
In Homage to Catalonia, George Orwell recounts how he was shot through the neck while on sentry duty. He was unable to speak for a while, and it was difficult to speak for a while longer, but he recovered. He also mentioned that, when it happened, he wasn’t particularly angry at the guy who shot him, whoever it was.
In the end, it saved his life, because he was taken out of his unit, in and out of medical treatment, etc., just before the Stalinists began purging the non-Stalinist Republican militias, and they couldn’t find him, although they were looking for him.
George Orwell wasn’t hit in the carotid artery by a contemporary ammunition. In that sense he was, indeed, very lucky.
I haven’t seen this anywhere else, yet…it is from the Congressional bureau Chief at Semafor, formerly Politico. [It was reposted by Joshua Friedman]:
https://bsky.app/profile/burgessev.bsky.social/post/3lylbiylvw22n
September 11, 2025 at 1:28 PM
And the Guardian is reporting that at least three HBCUs have cancelled classes today due to threats.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/sep/11/charlie-kirk-shot-latest-news-updates-utah-university-donald-trump
(You’ll have to scroll down to find the report – I was uncomfortable with the shared URL for the specific item re: tracking info.)
GUARDIAN has also posted about the DNC [they have a screenshot of the email]:
Why don’t I feel any sympathy?
The best, short but free-standing, most useful, most necessary, appropriate to the day of a political assassination view I’ve read, is from the Bulwark’s Jonathon V. Last. It puts forward three main ideas, beginning with:
The second point may be the most important:
The third is perhaps the most necessary as directed to me. The strongly Catholic JVL phrases it in the language of prayer, which is fine for the part he directs to those believing in such comforts, but for the rest, I replace “prayer” with ‘take what action you can, do what you can do, to…‘
As I said, this is appropriate for the day of such an act, such “an attack on our civic compact.” But today, the day after, it is not too early to start planning and advocating for “take what action you can, do what you can do.” My first action, little as it is, is to send this piece and my views to my mostly right-wing, mostly Trump-supporting extended Idaho family (I do that only rarely and have had an occasional success in diverting some from a dark path). I’d be grateful for suggestions on other, real, potentially useful actions an individual can take.
I mentioned the JVL piece as both perceptive and thoughtful, but realize most of what I quoted was perception, leaving out much of the thoughtfulness. The short piece is well worth reading:
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/the-assassination-of-charlie-kirk
Charlie Kirk was murdered. It was an unlawful killing and heinous act, not an affront to society beyond the fact of his murder. The political meaning being given to it, in the absence of information about his attackers, is for the political aggrandizement of Donald Trump.
The knee jerk reaction to the murder of a political figure is that it is assassination. But it could also be a jilted lover, an aggrieved co-worker or someone with other motivation.
or the proverbial nutcase
EoH, that seems…less thoughtful than your typical comment. What I’m acknowledging is not the political, but the societal impact JVL posits in the part of his opening I left out of the quote. Dismissing it as nothing more than just another heinous murder seem more like the surrounded-by-flames This is Fine dog (I know that’s unfair and not what you mean, but it seems the most obvious initial impression).
The political views of the, yes, assassin targeting a specific individual, does not control, but will necessarily inform societal analysis of the event. That’s regardless of whether it’s an even farther-right crank angered that Kirk wasn’t far enough right, a right-wing false flag, an irrational technocrat thinking it’s just taking out the trash, or a crazed leftist revolutionary. A psychotic paranoid young man would probably least damaging, but that’s seeming less and less likely.
I have no influence on or interest in what MAGAnistan might consider aggrandizement of Trump (given the experience of close family members, they need no excuse to aggrandize Trump). But given my by-nature tendency to withdraw and ignore societal unpleasantness, I’m working on doing what I can. If I think of this as just another heinous murder, I will be too easy to, without guilt, withdraw back into my not-unpleasant retired life.
We won’t agree. For starters, you knew something was unfair to say and not what a commenter meant, and you said it anyway.
“Dismissing it as nothing more than just another heinous murder seem more like the surrounded-by-flames This is Fine dog”
Oddly enough, that was Kirk’s attitude toward gun violence. This Is Fine, a necessity to preserve the Second Amendment.
Worth considering: that “societal impact” derives from people like Donald Trump *calling* it an assassination, in order to serve their own purposes.
Which, in Trump’s case, includes only more violence–directed at “the radical left.” Meaning: whoever the hell he chooses to disparage.
Pretty sure nothing I said about Kirk’s death is the same as Kirk’s attitude toward other gun deaths in America: it’s the price we should expect to pay for an unrestricted Second Amendment.
I prefer not to characterize this killing as an assassination until we have evidence that it was. And even if we do end up calling it that, I personally require hard evidence of the political motivations of the killer and any associates before I climb on the bandwagon that says the killer was on the left.
Purple,
I read JVL’s article, because the Bulwark posted it outside their Substack paywall.* The use of the phrase, “thoughts and prayers,” in the face of school and public shootings, is the ironic message to me. It is the opposite of take action. I was appalled at his conclusion, even if well-intended.
*I canceled my Bulwark subscription because of Substack.
I believe psychologists say that even when one responds to what have you done and your answer is nothing, it is still taking an action.
So “thoughts and prayers,” is an action, whether we like it or not.
It’s not an action I like.
We won’t agree on that either. Even if you believe a Republican when they promise to send their thoughts and prayers, saying something and doing something are not the same thing.
Isn’t it odd how the full force of the USG is being deployed to find the murderer of political rabble rouser, Charlie Kirk, when Trump couldn’t be bothered to recognize the myriad of school shootings, including one in Colorado yesterday, or the political murderers 40 days ago in Minnesota.
Even the State Dept is getting in on the act. It will deny or rescind a visa to any foreigner who criticizes Charlie Kirk, blessed be his name among the most high. Next thing you know, Trump will canonize him.
I expect a building or a wing of a building, or some major new program, will named after him. It’s a certainty that congressional bills for something or another will name check him.
In the near term, his most extreme formulations will gain currency.
Trump is sending Air Force Two to take Kirk’s body to Arizona for burial, or resurrection. It’s hard to tell.
That’s a lot of honors for someone who wasn’t in any part of government and was spewing hatred.
Kirk had the right to free speech. I have the right to abhor his hateful and harmful rhetoric against others.
“Black women do not have the brain processing power to be taken seriously. You have to go steal a white person’s slot”. – Charlie Kirk, September 2025
“I can’t stand the word empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made-up, new age term that — it does a lot of damage.”
– Charlie Kirk, Charlie Kirk Show, Oct 12, 2022
That second one makes him explicitly unChristian – Jesus said a lot about empathy and its necessity.
We have the Old Testament, the New Testament and now the Newer Testament.
The Trump Testament: gold leather binding; gilt page edges; end notes explaining how Donald told Jesus his ‘woke’ thing was never going to work.
Welcome to the new, authorised history of everything ;-).
re-gruntfuttock September 12, 2025 1:15 pm
Will I find it in my next visit to Motel 6 or will there be a surcharge in rooms where that is found in?
I think empathy is a made-up, New Age term …
New Oxford American Dictionary:
em·pa·thy
…
early 20th century: from Greek empatheia (from em- ‘in’ + pathos ‘feeling’) translating German Einfühlung.
—–
Charlie Kirk died in the act of spreading lies and bigotry. We may take comfort in knowing he ended his life doing what he loved.
Or we can realize that now Charlie Kirk will never have the opportunity to change his ways and do some good in this world. Stranger things have happened.
“take comfort…” You can define empathy, but are you feeling it right now?
Kirk expressed his desire for public executions. He expressed his desire for children to witness public executions. So he did die while fulfilling his expressed desires.
Unless you agree with him, you’ll agree that no child should witness a parent’s violent end, including Kirk’s children. I’d like to think we’re better than that.
Could argue the word is mid-19th century in origin because it was originally in German. See Etymonline:
Rather shocking the new Nazis haven’t adopted the German variant.
Yes. I read someone relating Charlie Kirk’s last words and it seemed too on-point to be believable. But, confirmed, it was the umpteenth, well-practiced repetition of one of his favorite racial dog whistles.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/charlie-kirk-last-words/
No matter the ideology or motive of his killer, I wonder if he will become some kind of R.W. martyr? A rallying cry for other political (or not) violence.
I’m curious if the Orange Fatburger will prod congress to let Kirk lie in state in The Capitol. Bread and Circus.
Off Topic… I wonder if the Cuban community in Florida knows that 25% of those detained in all ICE raids to date, are Cuban born?
What happened to Charlie Kirk was abhorrent, as was the violence against others like Rep. Gabby Giffords, Rep. Steve Scalise, and Heather Heyer. At the same time, Charlie Kirk was a racist, bigot, and homophobe who wore a Christianity costume to spread hatred and division. Those who portray him as decent and honorable are ignoring a decade of his demeaning words against people of color, women, and the LGBTQ community. Both of these truths can be awful, and one does not negate the other.
Oct. 12. 2022 Charlie Kirk: “I think empathy is a made up New Age term that does a lot of damage.”
So enough said. Wouldn’t want to cause more damage.
I suggest this quote as most germane to the moment: “[W]e are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.” (Kevin Roberts, President, Heritage Foundation, 7-2-24)
Public figures not of the GOP have duly humbled themselves before the tragic loss of Mr. Kirk and expressed their mea culpas for the nation’s incipient collapse into political violence, for which they bear no responsibility. Conversely, public figures of the GOP, for which the stoking of fear and violence has been mother’s milk for 50 years, luridly are declaring vengeance on Democrats and the left, even though the shooter and his motivation are not known. Just as the GOP dictated the narrative on the day in Butler PA that Corey Comperatore was shot and killed, and the MSM just wrote it down, here too it is the GOP’s prerogative to define what occurred. Those who are not of the GOP must submit. If not, it will not be bloodless, and it will be the fault of the left.
Our MSM and our public discourse do not ever reference how power situates itself under the events on which they report. GOP violence rests on and consolidates power. Political violence not of the GOP, on the rare occasions that it occurs, rests on desperation and, counterproductively, also consolidates power. Power benefits when norms of peaceful democratic process are replaced with norms of political violence. That is why the chief project of Mr. Roberts’ organization is doing away with the rule of law. As Rugger_9 suggests above, “cui bono”?
Well…amid the Epstein/Kirk frenzies, this item from today seems to be overlooked media-wise, so far…
Bolsonaro found guilty and sentenced to 27 years in prison for plotting a coup:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8xrqxk9p4xo
Way to go, Brazil. We salute the functionality of your justice system…it was a 4-1 vote among the 5 Brazilian Supreme Court justices.
My spouse is overjoyed. Brazil knows how to deal with coup plotters.
I go back to Rio in five weeks for our one year anniversary. Still no movement on our 2024 tax return and tax ID application – and certainly no movement on the residency application.
=======
“…Way to go, Brazil. We salute the functionality of your justice system…it was a 4-1 vote among the 5 Brazilian Supreme Court justices…”
Brazil is very enamored with the United States. Their government is setup like ours – down to a federal district that they call Brasilia where their government is seated.
They even have a “Black Friday” on the very same day as ours – although there is no Brazilian holiday the day before as is the case with our Thanksgiving.
Trump’s tariffs on Brazil has hurt them a lot. I’m not talking about the economic impact, the hurt is felt on a different level, as if a best friend punched you in the gut for no reason out of the blue.
I also now need a visa to enter Brazil. Prior, I just showed up and breezed through customs in less than ten seconds. It probably could have been seven seconds, but I was told to take off my baseball cap at both previous entries. I know this time. My spouse is so jealous that I just waltz into Brazil. American privilege baby.
This past spring, we honeymooned in Europe where we arranged to meetup. At one point, we flew from France to Britain. I could have used the electronic entry for Americans and Canadian and breezed through, but because I was with my spouse, I had to endure a 45 minute winding queue as the rest of the world has to endure upon entry. I told my spouse, “one day you’ll be able to breeze through entry too.”
I have a Brazilian musician/professor friend who has lived in the U.S. for over a decade. His first green card expired after 10 years earlier this summer as national guard units were sent into L.A. He had a brief white-knuckle period during the time the green card expired and when he received a new one, I think a period of 2-3 weeks, but nothing happened during that time period. Now he travels everywhere both with his new green card AND his passport.
I don’t suppose there any “statehood” efforts to make Brasilia a new self-governing region, as has been the long-time case with D.C.? I understand that Bolsonaro not required to physically be in court for the verdict – he was allowed to stream it on his large-screen TV while comfortably ensconced on a comfy sofa inside his mansion.
…wearing his electronic ankle bracelet. :p
^^^ my spouse LOVES that part. ; )
Anapolis has been on lockdown and there are reports of multiple gunshot casualties.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/11/us/naval-academy-annapolis.html
The world feels on edge.
This afternoon, I remembered that there was a recent season 27 episode of Southpark, mocking Charlie Kirk briefly. Kirk was not the main topic, but “Woke” was.
I Googled Southpark Charlie Kirk. I struck gold.
MAGA Blames ‘South Park’ for Charlie Kirk Assassination as Comedy Central Pulls Episode
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/south-park-charlie-kirk-maga-1236368149/
Also, MAGA extremists are perusing online comment sections and social media and are doxxing anyone on a newly made anonymously run website, who does not share in their grief of yesterday’s event.
https://www.wired.com/story/right-wing-activists-are-targeting-people-for-allegedly-celebrating-charlie-kirks-death/
Headline from the Guardian:
“US officials plan to punish foreigners ‘making light of’ Charlie Kirk death. Deputy secretary of state says ‘foreigners who glorify violence and hatred are not welcome visitors’”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/11/christopher-landau-charlie-kirk-foreigners
Columbine was in 1999. That means that the Oregon Trail generation, the tweeners straddling gen X and millenials, was the last to experience a public education without gun violence. There have been 453 school shootings since. I graduated in 1998. At Uni the shootings were shocking, but distant.
It makes me wonder now what the effect has been on people under 35, to grow up in fear, to see society not only not care, but also for a growing swath to begin to worship guns. For those who experienced or had connections in some way to the shootings there must be major psychological consequences. What happens when the trauma keeps happening? When people like Charlie Kirk and something called a catturd are lauded?
“Hate begets hate…” and so it goes. We don’t know if the shooter was foreign/domestic, pro/amateur; after much reading there are people who strongly think each of the options is true. But I don’t think we know, now that the wall of authoritarianism is falling, and hope is drying, and self-proclaimed “christians” are celebrating violence and hate–when the Liars, the Alex Jones’, are seeking and gaining pardon by our highest authorities–what each individual who has that violence which has been done unto them simmering in their hearts, we don’t know what they will do.
In history, rarely do things change without cataclysm or seismic shift. We don’t know what will be the consequences of 25 years of allowing children to shoot children while adults proudly proclaim they don’t care. I’m afraid our nation is entering the finding out.
Well, the MAGA cult got what it wanted, a world of fear. Listening to Trump speak about Kirk at a 911 event was beyond dystopian. Kirk was a non-violent peaceful man?
I wonder who is next? Left, Center, Right. Perhaps all of the investment in AI will help predict?
Just read the NYT where they report that Trump says a suspect is in custody seemingly due to a family member turning the subject into authorities. I would not be surprised if a family member checked to see if his father’s 30-06 was missing from the gun case. I suspect disaffected youth that learned how to hunt, knew the school grounds as few people will seek the roof access unless they have done it before. The video of the shooter leaving the building and jumping was planned and there are very few people that look up or would have noticed his get away.
The NY Times interviewed a group of people about his death and one was Charles Vaughters, a non-traditional student at University of Wyoming, who makes an interesting claim about how this is a logical outcome of the left’s rhetoric. I will probably see Charles in the next few weeks and I will ask him to review the history of the Wiemar Republic before he makes statements he cannot back up.
“At the University of Wyoming, Charles Vaughters, 25, who served in the Marines before enrolling in college, worried that things could get much worse.
Although he disagreed with Mr. Kirk on some issues, he said that he appreciated the discourse. But, he asked, when people on the left compare the Trump administration to fascists and Nazis, how could political violence be surprising?”
Charles writes for the campus news paper and his articles are not bad, but here is a story about his “views” on life.
https://www.uwbrandingiron.com/?p=43230
I just heard Kash Patel give a presser after catching a suspect. What a clown. First 20 seconds praising Trump.
Then he closed his talk out with calling Charlie his friend, and he will meet him again in “Valhalla”.
So, we see Patel’s thoughts life and the afterlife here. Warrior in life and through the afterlife also.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Valhalla-Norse-mythology
My sources tell me Charlie is in MAGA hell with Rush Limbaugh and Ashli Babbitt. Prove me wrong.
In MAGA Hell, do you have to undergo constant anaesthetic-free plastic surgery?
Or do they just play Taylor Swift on a loop?
That was an interesting component of his cringe inducing, sycophantic presser. Valhalla is an oft referred to thing in white supremacist circles.
Patel’s performance was like watching an often beaten, submissive dog crawl on its belly, looking for a pat on the head.
I hate to break the news to ‘ole Kash, but his skin is too dark for him to ever get to Valhalla
Is it just me, or does the emerging story about the shooter make it sound as though the FBI basically had fuck-all to do with him now being in police custody?
A-yup.
CNN:
Bloomberg:
I hate violence. Any kind of violence. It is tragic that Tyler Robinson appears to have murdered Charlie Kirk. It is tragic for both families and for the United States of America. We are in a very sorry place, and it appears that many in GOP leadership still don’t feel any responsibility to help move us to a better place. They don’t even have the courage that Tyler Robinson’s family had.
I grew up in a family with lots of violence. It was scary. Our culture and society was very much weighted against treating women and girls with dignity then. But slowly it changed, and my mother was able to divorce my father. Things improved, but there were still many struggles.
I worked very hard in school so I could receive a scholarship to go to college. I supplemented that with part-time work. Then one day terrible violence happened at my school when students were shot and killed and maimed at Kent State, as a result of a cascade of corrupt decisions initiated by Richard Nixon because of his lust for power. It was traumatic for the nation and many individuals.
And now we are in an even worse place. What has happened is terrible. But we can’t focus solely on Tyler Robinson. We need to remember Charlie Kirk, as well. This article was written a little over a year ago:
Charlie Kirk once unified conservative youth for Trump. Why are Republicans now turning on him? – 6/25/24
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2024/jun/25/charlie-kirk-turning-point-usa-chase-the-vote-trump
Republicans have had decades to have the courage and not only do they refuse, they’ve taken it to the level of destroying a country that was supposedly the greatest that ever existed.
Voters of the US have it so good that they are apathetic or want to destroy the country.
I recommend reading the article at the link I provided because it provides some valuable details. I would not have provided the title it has because it may be misleading.
Maybe I missed it in reading the article, but how many millions have left Kirk’s camp?
It actually doesn’t matter who was for or against him in the MAGAsphere before his murder. Now, he’s a MAGA martyr and all will unite on that very valuable propaganda point. Someone mentioned Horst Wessel the other day, and for those not familiar with that bit of Nazi history, the Wikipedia summary is plenty chilling enough:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Wessel
I’m happy to be wrong about the skills and backstory of the suspected shooter of Charlie Kirk. He fits the radicalized lone wolf killer to a T, which would have made him easier to catch, since it’s the sort of perp law enforcement was already geared up to look for.
I’m not happy that that means Trump and Kirk’s attempts to radicalize America – and the predictable reactions to them – are getting so much traction and leading toward where Trump wants them to go.
I’m not happy that Kirk was murdered. But it’s no more an existential threat to America than the murders of those killed every year in mass shootings, caused by Republicans’ refusal to regulate guns. Kirk is no more worthy of the de facto state funeral that Trump and Miller have constructed around him than they were. But doing that for Kirk helps them create the violent government-by-spectacle Marcy is warning about.
“I’m not happy that Kirk was murdered.”
Kirk et al espouse Hitler-type atrocities every minute of every day and even though neither Hitler nor Kirk have probably killed anyone with their own hands, they’ve pushed others over the brink to do it for them.
Any different than a RICO case by a gang or mafia leader ?
No, I’m not happy he was murdered. If you need to do that to your domestic political enemies, what are you fighting for? There are a lot of consequences one could impose besides death. You should look into them.
I’ve been against capital punishment since I first learned of it.
I know the consequences one could impose besides death, but when the highest officials and justices of the country have no desire and/or will to impose them,…
The country has a cancer upon it and like the disease when it gets aggressive, you sometimes have to take all means to defeat it.
J6 was not, and the crap that’s happening in the House and Senate is not a “political” fight and they are not “political” enemies.
It is anarchy and they are committing, encouraging and defending crimes and criminals.
Guess we’ll never agree on what’s political.
Is this “political”?
“LANSING, Mich. (AP) — A Michigan judge dismissed criminal charges Tuesday against a group of people who were accused of attempting to falsely certify President Donald Trump as the winner of the 2020 election in the battleground state, a major blow to prosecutors as similar cases in four other states have been muddied with setbacks.
District Court Judge Kristen D. Simmons said in a court hearing that the 15 Republicans accused will not face trial. The case has dragged through the courts since Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel, a Democrat, announced the charges over two years ago.
Simmons said she saw no intent to commit fraud in the defendants’ actions. Whether they were “right, wrong or indifferent,” they “seriously believed” there were problems with the election, the judge said.
“I believe they were executing their constitutional right to seek redress,” Simmons said.
…
Supporters, friends and family crowded in the hallway outside the courtroom cheered when the judge said the cases would be dismissed. Defendants leaving the courtroom cried and hugged friends and family. One woman wept as she hugged another and said, “We did it.””
re-earlofhuntingdon September 12, 2025 2:18 pm
I’m confused as what/how you define what’s political.
To me it’s having discourse about policy and a nation’s course in a “polite” manner, not screaming across the aisle about trans, makeup, etc. as with Mase and Jackson, whether Babbitt should have a military burial, UFOs, Hunter Biden’s sex and drug use, phony elector ballots, …
Feel like sharing your thoughts?
His father is a cop, they are registered Republicans, and a devoutly religious family.
The family used all sorts of guns. There were lots of photos of them on the internet holding different types of guns, shooting them.
There is every reason to believe that he is a ‘groyper’, based on the sayings scratched into the shell casings and some of the photos of him. Also his room mate showed the FBI/Police his postings on Discord, in some very white nationalist / Chriistian nationalist chat rooms.
He is as far from the lunatic left, ‘antifa’, that Trump keeps blaming.
Source please.
I found the below, but not “He is as far from the lunatic left”.
From https://www.deseret.com/politics/2025/09/12/tyler-robinson-arrest-suspect-charlie-kirk-murder/
“The family member also mentioned that Robinson had become more political in recent years, Cox said.
The conversation also included mention of Kirk’s viewpoints, and that Kirk “was full of hate and spreading hate,” Cox said.”
Dubious that this rhetoric is really coming from the left. Apparently TR is a Groyper fan, i.e. Nick Fuentes’ shop and Nick has a feud with Kirk going back some time.
Uniter-in-Chief is on Fox.
Video titled: “Trump roasts Mamdani with brutal new nickname” but within minutes Fox changed it to: ” Trump reveals new nickname for Mamdani weeks before Election Day.”
Hopefully they are right:
by Katie Mather
Turning Point USA COO: ‘Charlie Kirk will never be replaced’
Tyler Bowyer, the chief operating officer of Turning Point USA, the organization Charlie Kirk cofounded, said Kirk “will never be replaced.”
“I miss my friend who worked every day harder than anyone I know,” Bowyer said on X. “He is loved. He is with our Savior. We will see him again.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/live/charlie-kirk-shooting-suspect-identified-as-tyler-robinson-22-after-family-members-turned-him-in-to-police–follow-live-updates-124018853.html
I understand they held Charlie’s scheduled podcast for today with an empty chair. His sidekicks apparently talked while sitting off to the side.
Wonder how long they can keep that arrangement going?
Never fear, the widow promises to carry on the mission herself because she is now filled with fire. Something about all those haters have unleashed the fire within her.
“He is with our Savior.”
Has this talking point been modified by the TPUSA community to cast Charlie as a savior to our youth in some way? I only ask because when I was out in Laramie on Wednesday, there were 4 young people coming out of a restaurant with carry out and heard one girl say “….apparently Charlie Kirk died for me.”
I have been thinking about that statement and I have been reading more about where she might have gotten that idea. There was a vigil held for Charlie on the UW campus where 1500 showed up. It was reported on by two online news outlets. The first is in the right wing Cowboy State Daily and the next is a Wyofile story. I would like to know what was said at these TPUSA rallies?
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2025/09/11/stunned-conflicted-uw-students-condemn-charlie-kirk-killing-political-violence/
https://wyofile.com/charlie-kirk-influenced-wyoming-politics-a-local-gop-megadonor-helped-launch-his-career/
1:02 PM EDT
Drugmakers [shares] Fall on Report US to Claim Covid Shots Killed Kids
(Bloomberg) — Vaccine makers’ shares fell after a report that Trump health officials plan to link Covid shots to the deaths of around TWO DOZEN CHILDREN in a presentation to advisers to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention next week….
Patients, health-care providers, caregivers and companies are encouraged to notify the agency about adverse events following immunization, “EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT SURE THE VACCINE CAUSED THE PROBLEM,” according to the CDC, which manages the VAERS database with the FDA.
Yet VAERS warns that some of these reports “represent true vaccine reactions and OTHERS ARE COINCIDENTAL ADVERSE HEALTH EVENTS AND NOT RELATED TO VACCINATION,” according to its fact sheet. “Overall, a causal relationship cannot be established using information from VAERS report alone.”
[My capitalizations]
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/moderna-falls-trump-officials-tie-155222738.html
I tried to post this earlier and don’t know what happened here and later in moderation which I deleted.
1:02 PM EDT Drugmakers Fall on Report US to Claim Covid Shots Killed Kids
(Bloomberg) — Vaccine makers’ shares fell after a report that Trump health officials plan to link Covid shots to the deaths of around two dozen children in a presentation to advisers to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention next week.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/moderna-falls-trump-officials-tie-155222738.html
There’s more looneytune in the story that I tried to post, but maybe some of it caused it into moderation.
They’re cherry-picking data from the VAERS database to support their deluded POV.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Adverse_Event_Reporting_System
See my posting at 3:47 for more of their garbage.
There is no perfect results in anything, but it doesn’t appear as if they present a ratio of how many millions if not billions of vaccines and how many millions or billions the vaccines most likely helped.
VAERS is not supposed to be used that way. It’s mostly anecdata.
Two dozen, out of how many million?
There was a kid who died in L.A. county of a rare kind of encephalitis caused by a measles shot, years ago.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/california-child-dies-measles-complication-21045056.php
That doesn’t mean the MMR vax is dangerous and shouldn’t be given, but these idjits will make that claim.