Open Thread: Generational Change Continues, Nancy Pelosi to Retire
[NB: check the byline, thanks. /~Rayne]
I am biting my tongue, resisting the urge to be extremely blunt. What I will say is already rather pointed.
Nancy Pelosi, former House Speaker, announced her plan to retire from Congress at the end of her term.
Did it take the death this week of a warmongering former vice president nine months younger than her to clue her in?
Or was it the ages of Tuesday’s three election winners?
Abigail Spanberger, at 46, is old enough to be Pelosi’s kid as is Mikie Sherrill at 53.
But Zohran Mamdani at 34 is of an age to be Pelosi’s grandchild.
There are now four generations of voters — Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, Gen Z — who are of voting age, and two of those generations are retired or approaching retirement. It’s time the youngest generations of voters had representation that understood their society and their needs.
The number of solid primary candidates in the wings should have encouraged this announcment some time ago.
This is an open thread, but let’s try to discuss what the future of the Democratic Party will look like as the oldest electeds exit the stage.
Ugh. I need another cup of coffee to get rid of the taste of blood in my mouth from biting my tongue.
Using my super powers to squeeze this in:
No one has yet taken up the offer.
(AltText: Mimicking a popular meme, a dark-haired woman sits behind a folding table on which a 24 by 36 inch white poster board with handwritten lettering has been taped. The black lettering reads, “Mike Johnson is starving families and gutting healthcare to cover up the Epstein files. CHANGE MY MIND.”)
Is Clyburn still around? King maker in primaries, failing to deliver the South in general elections. It seems he’s older than Nancy. He played demographics and we got the Harris loss.
Per wiki, Pelosi is older than Clyburn – but only by a couple of months.
Clyburn’s roots are in the Civil Rights movement, and that’s an important voice to have in the leadership of the House Dems. He stepped away from a formal leadership role at the same time Pelosi stepped away from the speakership, but he’s still around.
Saying Clyburn failed to deliver the South is putting a lot on one guy. Every presidential campaign has to pick its battles, and for most Dems, spending lots of money and time in the South is money and time poured down the drain. Sometimes, it’s worth spending anyway, to help downballot candidates (think GA in 2020), even though the chances of the presidential candidate carrying the state are minor.
Here you touch on the real issue with the Dems. $$$$ It is all well and good to talk about ‘Corporate Democrats’, but with all of the insane amount of corporate, and seemingly foreign, money on the R side, we have to be able to try for even footing. We have lost almost all of the tech money to the brolegarchy. Wall Street is always supporting the Right. The average mom and pop voter donates less than $100 per cycle.
Waving protest signs and manning ironing boards to sign up voters is important, but so is big money. Obama himself said that he would like to be able to campaign without big donations, but it is more important to win. Until we solve this problem in the immediate, we do not have the luxury of being self righteous about where the campaign funding comes from. Yeah, Yeah Citizens United blahblahblah. You can’t get rid of it until you are in power.
mamdani’s campaign chest was far smaller than cuomo’s, reportedly.
So much this.
I am 80. More than happy to let the “youngsters” have their say. Age nor youth have a monopoly on ideas. I hope the young include respect for all in their policies.
#te
In Pelosi’s case I would not be surprised it was a sense of purpose that also factored in. Older folks don’t like being put to pasture before their time. LGM has a decent writeup as well, but tl;dr she was progressive voice effective at fundraising and corralling her caucus to make stands. Unlike DiFi, she’s kept her wits about her throughout her time in the House.
As for successors, they are there without serious name recognition. My best guess given SF’s fractured politics is that we might get someone in place until Lurie decides he wants to be in Congress. Right now he’s busy as mayor and my read for that is he’s not looking for the next job, yet.
Speaking as an increasingly older folk, I know that one of my purposes is to train the future and then take off the training wheels. The job isn’t done until the trained have been released to do their work on their own.
That’s where Pelosi ignored the call.
Can’t argue ewith that.
As a leader, this is where Pelosi FAILED in her primary purpose for at least the last 2 decades. For some reason, I can’t get the “Bye Felicia!” meme out of my head right now.
Huh, so saving Social Security (twice), getting the ACA passed, pushing Joe Biden out so the Dems had a real shot at 2024… all of that was secondary to “mentoring” people? Good to know where your priorities are.
IIRC Pelosi *did* train her replacement: Joseph Crowley. From what I understand, he became too focused on DC and thought his seat was safe. When he lost the primary to AOC in 2018 it was a major upset. My politics are closer to AOC’s, but I honestly don’t know if AOC for Crowley was the right tradeoff for resisting Trump. It left a leadership vacuum, even if it did bring in the kind of representative I want more of. Anyway, this is not a commentary on the relative merits of Crowley vs AOC, just an observation that Pelosi did have a succession plan but it fell apart when Crowley lost.
Crowley wasn’t in the running for Pelosi’s seat.
And I honestly can’t think of anybody outside NY who’d say Crowley was a Democratic leader.
I thought that the rather ineffectual Hakeem Jefferies was her protege ? He seems to be working from a much older playbook than what is needed now.
Oh, I don’t know.
Her hand-picked successor, Hakeem Jeffries is only 55. (younger than I am).
I know the argument that legislators have a different job than party activists. He still seems like “more of the same” from the…more established/entrenched wing of the leadership.
Not true. She famously mentored both Omar and AOC, and Jeffries as well, among others. Mentoring people was very much in her wheelhouse.
Monopolists are disgusting.
Indeed!!
I was in college in the Bay Area for Pelosi’s first campaign — I remember the flyers. (Though I voted absentee in my home state, so I didn’t actually vote *for* her.)
And I am now almost 60. That’s…an awfully long time to be in one job.
I think it all comes down to there just weren’t enough of us GenXers to ever force a generational turnover. I have faith that the Millennials will do so. They have the numbers.
And yet we’ve had a two-term president who is now only 64 — twenty-plus years younger than Pelosi.
BAMZ!!! is a Boomer – the tale end.
We’ve not had a GenX POTUS.
He’s a cuspian, like me. We don’t identify with Boomers — good goddess, the arguments my uber-Boomer spouse and I have had over the shit that makes up the divide, I am so not a Boomer.
Boomers aren’t digital natives which is a critical difference; I’ve been online since before 1995. This division between pre-digital and post-digital is why so much of our surveillance and privacy laws are fucked all to hell.
@pH unbalanced
GenX is the lost generation.
Boomers have stayed on and worked because every time there is a R-POTUS, they tank the economy. There is one lady in my vanpool that is 78 years old. The company that I work for does not have a retirement age requirement. We have many, MANY employees 65+ and mostly management is made-up of age 65+.
I hope Janet Mills gets a clue from this and drops out of the Maine Senate race. (She would be 79 at the start of her term).
Surely there is at least one scandal-free, under 60, anti- filibuster/pro-court expansion (Mills is pro-filibuster) progressive Dem in the state of Maine willing to run against Collins?
Literally all of us were hoping that Troy Jackson was going to be the person to challenge Collins; Troy would have had a very legitimate chance to unseat her. But, he’s going after the Blaine House instead, which he will win.
I’ll copy and pastes what I wrote on a dKos thread in response to (what I assume was) your commentary on the subject:
The Gov race is a clusterfuck with Troy, Shenna and Pingree splitting the progressive vote, against the centrist Mills. Either Shenna or Troy could respond to Golden’s dropping out by changing the office they’re running for. It’s plenty early enough to do that.
I sure hope there is an AOC or Mamdani in the wings. Time for a new generation. Also plus, Janet Mills, really? UGH.
And AOC is right there with the 2nd Amendment, too. She has an unconditional right to bare arms in the House.
I’m three years younger than Nancy and I can tell you that I’m tired.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uai7M4RpoLU
[FYI – link edited to remove tracking. /~Rayne]
District Judge Sara Ellis is systematically dismantling The Government’s arguments
re: use of force by federal agents against protesters and journalists in Chicago.
Jon Seidel: https://bsky.app/profile/jonseidel.bsky.social/post/3m4xxdcyw4c2g
November 6, 2025 at 11:11 AM
Heather Cherone: https://bsky.app/profile/heathercherone.bsky.social/post/3m4xxfjhdpk2g
November 6, 2025 at 11:13 AM
JS: November 6, 2025 at 11:48 AM
HC November 6, 2025 at 11:49 AM:
JS November 6, 2025 at 11:57 AM:
HC November 6, 2025 at 12:00 PM
JS November 6, 2025 at 12:03 PM
HC November 6, 2025 at 12:01 PM:
HC has lost track of how many times Ellis has said
The Government’s arguments “lack credibility.”
HC November 6, 2025 at 12:09 PM:
JS: November 6, 2025 at 12:16 PM
Crossing that threshold is a big deal. It opens up liability for the govt.
Does attacking and killing possible innocents on the Venezuelan boats ever get the same standing?
xyxyxyxy–
That might require joining the ICC and shipping the current admin off to The Hague to stand in the dock.
re- Fraud Guy November 6, 2025 12:53 pm
I understand, but is there nothing that USers can do about it besides Generals and/or Admirals resigning their posts?
Yes!!
#te
LOL, xy. Apples and oranges. But you knew that.
“…Generals and/or Admirals resigning their posts?”
I have a funny feeling that soon many of those cut from the services will be thanking their good luck, to be cut from the service as Hegseth hollows them out, and so they won’t be there for whatever bad fate is going to befall the US military.
“bad fate which is to befall the military”. I’d suggest if Heggi continues to fire the General/Admiral group it just isn’t going to be the military which will have a “bad fate” It will be the whole of the U.S.A. Once the military has been hollowed out and enemies advance, the brains won’t be there. can you imagine ick heegi and the fat one actually running a war? getting rid of Generals/Admirals is a good plan if you intend to “re-imagine” the U.S.A. Getting rid of them is even more important than getting rid of trump’s political and buerocratic opposition. If trump and his maga billionaire crowd continue as they have been, the U.S.A. is going to look something like it did after 1929.
when WW II began and the American military started drafting men for the service, one of the conditions which slowed training down was the recruits were in such poor physical condition they could not start the actual training until the armed forces feed them enough food so they could actually take on the riggers of training and fighting. Its why the federal government started food programs.
Cutting food programs just doesn’t cause pain for people but it also impedes the growth of children and weakens adults. cutting food programs was more about causing disease and weakness of Americans
HC November 6, 2025 at 12:25 PM:
JS November 6, 2025 at 12:26 PM:
[I lost a comment here…I don’t think it’s in the pokey, so will repost]
[hahahah…now this one’s in the pokey…
please delete as you think appropriate, Rayne.]
JS November 6, 2025 at 12:26 PM:
HC November 6, 2025 at 12:25 PM:
[I lost a comment ^^^ which will show up eventually]
HC November 6, 2025 at 12:38 PM:
Speaking of comments in the pokey, I think it’s been two years since I *didn’t* have a comment go to auto-moderation. When I raised this some months ago, Rayne rightly counseled me to be more careful about avoiding typos in my username and email, and I have, but nothing has changed. It’s often a real drag not to be able to participate in the conversation in real time. Is there anything to be done?
First off, your expectations of real-time participation in comments are unrealistic. This isn’t a chat room, nor is it a microblogging platform like Bluesky or Facebook. It’s a website operating on a shoestring and human volunteers’ moderation efforts.
Second, I still have NO idea why the algorithm doesn’t recognize you except for your history of inconsistency in character use as well as repeated typos in your email address, some of which have been corrected without your awareness over the last two years and your total 379 comments to date, and probably often enough that you might have been banned if I wasn’t conscious of the problem you’ve had with whatever dash/dash-like character you’ve been using in your username. See comments dd. 10-JUN-2025 and 17-JUN-2025.
I suggest looking more closely at whether any changes to devices used on your end may contribute to the problem.
I appreciate your volunteer moderation, Rayne, and I hate putting you through extra work every time I post. The problem you previously identified with my username was an apostrophe/quote issue, not the dash I switched to after you ID’d the problem. Still using the same devices I first commented with. Been trying hard not to commit typos in the name/email. Don’t use autofill. Maybe if I started over with a new username and email addy?
replying to:
Fraud Guy says:
November 6, 2025 at 12:53 pm
and
xyxyxyxy says:
November 6, 2025 at 12:59 pm
Could states organise referenda or whatever you have to acknowledge international law? Do they have to ignore it because the Federal Gubmint does so?
Go their own way, under states’ rights, which the GOP claim to love so much?
Cue Fleetwood Mac, going their own way (‘loving you isn’t the right thing to do’):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTIkFwMuiTw
Unfortunately, recognizing ICC jurisdiction is not a state function, falling squarely within foreign relations, and I believe would require treaty level approval.
In other news, FIFA’s decided to create a ‘Peace Prize’ to be awarded at the Kennedy Center World Cup Draw party. I wonder if it will be called the ‘Noble’ Peace Prize when Convict-1 gets it (duh), because Noble and Nobel look the same in crayon or Sharpie.
She was so good at her job, that she flipped over a thousand Dem seats to Republican ones.
She also refused to impeach Bush and for a while, Trump.
Did I forgot that she was great at raising money?
Are there lessons there for future politicians?
Rayne’s point in responding to my earlier comment is apt, but to be fair to Pelosi SF elections are like a Monty Python sketch where in the last mayoral election we started with 13 people who filed for the first round.
Successors could be Aaron Peskin (SF Board of Supes president), Scott Weiner (Assemblyman), Ahsha Safai (11th Disrict Supervisor). Mark Farrell is too RW for the district but does have a following. London Breed is another possibility despite getting pushed out by Lurie.
I don’t understand what SF election has anything to to do with anything here.
Furthermore, of elections are like a Monty Python sketch, in the Pres election of 2016 there were 12 post primary candidates and an additional 5 who withdrew before the primaries.
Pelosi’s district is in SF. Note that her successor will come from there and so SF elections are a good place to look.
Progressive State Senator Scott Wiener (former SF Supervisor , representing Harvey Milk’s district) got tired of waiting for Pelosi’s decision and threw his hat into the ring formally a couple of weeks ago. Maybe that shot across the bow resonated?
Or he heard through the grapevine that Pelosi was likely to do this after the Nov election, and wanted to be first in line.
@ Peterr – that’s plausible
She saved Social Security not just once, but twice. She got the ACA passed. These, among others, are real legislative accomplishments that have affected just about everybody in America. She pushed Biden out, giving Dems a real, solid chance to win the 2024 election. Blaming the House Minority Leader and sometime Speaker for racist, nativist voters coming out of the woodwork to support a famous racist, nativist populist is… and I’m trying to be kind here… ludicrous. Of course nobody has agency in America except Nancy Pelosi, it’s all her fault!
I agree.
Thanks for posting
Jack
No, it’s not all her fault.
Schumer helped.
There seems to be a lot of self-flagellation (still) going around in (alleged) Dem circles since the last pres. election. (All because the GOP and its paymasters played the most flagrantly crooked populist con trick on voters in their sorry history of the past 60 years!)
Like Rayne said, the mark of a good leader is that they train their replacement.
I don’t like term limits* or age limits, but there has to be a way to gently or not-so-gently encourage mega-multi-termers to hang it up and let others move up. Maybe an adaptation of the Republican rule that legislators can only serve X numbers of terms as the chair or ranking member of a committee before they return to back bench status. Same thing with senior leadership–after a few 2-year terms as Speaker/Majority Leader or Minority Leader, the gavel should be passed so the top of the org chart isn’t blocked.
The other issue is who you have up and coming. On the one hand, if young challengers split the field the oldster is going to win the primary. On the other if you put your eggs in one basket, you sometimes end up with someone with a Nazi tattoo. I don’t love Mills’ age as a candidate for Senate, but I also think that she’s a better choice against Collins than Platner. Maybe the tattoo was innocent and maybe it wasn’t, but there’s enough doubt that it would have been a major downside for Platner in the general.
* Mainly because in practice lobbyists take over the law-writing roles where they haven’t already.
On the other hand, you have situations like in Chicago, where Rep Chuy Garcia is going to retire for medical reasons, but announced it right before the filing date, so that only his Chief of Staff was able to file in time.
Yeah, that was a real bastard move.
That was a move in keeping with the deep traditions of Chicago politics. He’s hardly the first.
The Maine Primaries aren’t for eight months, and candidate filing deadline is six months away.
There is absolutely no urgency to make a final choice between Platner and Mills now, as there is plenty of time to recruit a candidate better than both of them.
Or you could plan to vote for Platner and tell Mills the same thing many here are telling Ms. Pelosi.
You can’t enter a Senate race 2 months before the primary and hope to win. Heck, getting in now would be a stretch for anyone who doesn’t have statewide name recognition and an established campaign organization. If anyone is going to challenge Platner for the young and lefty vote, they need to get in post haste.
As noted above, I think Platner has too many potential skeletons to be a safe nominee against Collins.
My view is that as corporate Dems have been working as hard to keep Platner from winning as Republicans. They persuaded Mills to run because they didn’t want Platner, which was before the deluge of bad press about Platner’s supposed skeletons.
@earlofhuntington 3:32pm PST I’m pretty sure that the tattoo story comes from Mills’ oppo research. Collins would have waited until Mills was the nominee and couldn’t be changed (see Jones, Jay). Probably dredging his Reddit history too. But all of that takes discussion and nuance in a story with lots of gray areas. Politics is really lousy at that. If Platner’s the nominee, he’ll spend all summer next year responding to those issues instead of campaigning against Collins’ ineffectual concerns about Trump.
Platner gives voters who may dislike MAGA, Trump and Collins’ boot-licking an excuse to vote for her, ie. their tribe, because “the other guy is worse.”
Yet Platner leads Mills in despite his controversies by 34 points. Enough with these 75+ year old candidates. I’m still smarting over RGB not retiring when she could. Look at what she caused by not doing so. RGB was very selfish. It does not give me pleasure to write that about RGB, I liked her a lot.
Regarding Platner, read this:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2025/10/30/2351278/-Graham-Platner-In-His-Own-Words-Because-There-s-No-Better-Way-To-Understand-Someone-s-True-Self
Isn’t there still a seniority system for Committee assignments? I’ve heard that as a defense of people like Ex-Speaker Pelosi not resigning. I can also see some reasoning behind someone with her experience hanging around to help Hakeem Jeffries in dealing with Republicans. On the other hand the Republicans in this Congress are sui generis so experience might not help that much.
A big failing of the Democratic Party has been a failure to develop the next generation. This is a project that should have been going on for decades.
The Republicans are facing their own problems, if they think JD Vance is Trump’s heir apparent.
The driver has been money and power, and Pelosi has been bringing in money which means she retains power.
This is one of the examples of training not fully completed and turned over to the younger Dems — they shouldn’t have to rely on an 85-year-old woman to make rain.
The Democratic Party in the late 60’s and early 70’s abandoned the younger generation of voters just coming of age, calling then National Guard and the cops on ‘em when they demonstrated against war, racism, and sexism. And giving young men who opposed the war in Vietnam the choice of going into the military, going to jail or running to Canada. And need I remind about Kent State and Jackson State
SO, 50 to 60 years ago, and you’re still mad at them, even though most of them are dead by now.
He’ll yes I’m still mad because that’s the point here: the Democrats abandoned the younger generation and then spent 5o years trying to figure out why younger voters didn’t trust ‘em.
Similarly, Bill Clinton abandoned Democratic working-class voters in favor of courting “liberal” Wall St. donors, which did help him win and also ushered in the era of neo-liberalism. So blame Clinton too.
Yes!! The Clintons were the capitulation of the party to corporate money.
The Democratic Party was split. There were many in the Democratic Party power structure who supported the protesters – Eugene McCarthy and RFK, to name the most prominent. A young John Kerry was a protester.
And LBJ ultimately bowed out of seeking a second term.
Yes, indeed the support for the boomer kids continued by lip service of those Dems who wanted to keep young voters in the fold while quietly taking the money or marrying into it.
I’ll remind you that the Repugs demonstrated FOR war, corruption, racism and sexism! The shootings at Kent State, Southern University and Jackson State all happened on Nixon’s watch.
As for Republicans and the war, I remind you why we had the war in the first place: elected Democrats fell in behind LBJ after the Gulf of Tonkin and were scared to death of opposing it until the people began to hit the streets after 1968 and black folks hit the streets after MLK’s assassination. By the time the Dem leadership figured it out it was too late and they had already sold themselves to the military industrial consolidation. And the rest as they say is history.
Both sides of the aisle missed the catalyst that drove those divides to more violent outcomes, which forced the Democrats to the right when it came to crime. We still have not come to terms with that catalyst.
One other place of refuge that you overlooked in your recitation of where young men chose to avoid that war was being a public school teacher. It is clear to me that my education was far better than it would have been had those choices not been available. Your statement is evidence that the Democrats did not understand how valuable that service was in creating an educated workforce that made the US what it is today.
The Kettering, Ohio middle schools and high schools had far more male teachers than female ones. In fact my Jr. high school had 3 guidance counselors and all were male. Dick Cheney the special one got deferments while my trigonometry teacher, Dennis Priser, influenced all of his students to be something he was prevented from becoming…..a free agent to choose any path that led to their success in any field they chose. It’s an ill wind that does not blow somebody some good and the Vietnam War certainly influenced the education of American youth for the better in my review of history.
Yes the war in Vietnam did educate young folks going forward but it also insured the decay of the two parties into neo-liberals and neo-cons and locking out boomers going forward. Only the neo-liberal Clinton ascended to the presidency after and the rest is history
Ms. Pelosi achieved many honorable things during her long tenure in politics, for which she should be lauded. But as Oliver Cromwell said to the Rump Parliament, not long before Nancy Pelosi first entered politics, “You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.”
I have often said the same thing about James Carville. He should return to his canopic jar, hidden in the corner of an oft-disturbed tomb, buried somewhere in the sands of Egypt.
I don’t much care for Oliver Cromwell.
The picture of her ripping up Trump’s State of the Union speech is iconic. She could have retired after that.
LOL: “But as Oliver Cromwell said …, not long before Nancy Pelosi first entered politics”
I find your misuse of history disturbing. If you want to use it on Speaker Mike Johnson and his band of miscreants, fine. If you want to claim that she’s corrupt or has no more religion than Cromwell’s horse, then you’re way out of line. Don’t make political perfection then enemy of good.
It’s OK to “misuse history” if it’s to insult your opponent, but not someone you like? LOL.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. The quote is a cliche, and has been used often since Cromwell, memorably by Leo Amery to Neville Chamberlain during WWII, and by a senior Tory MP to Boris Johnson. In its modern usage, it has little to with corruption or religion.
I prefaced that quote by saying she’d done good things, but that it was past time for her to go, a common sentiment in comments. Get a grip.
Get a grip yourself. It’s a cliche because people misuse the speech for the most trivial of of reasons. Cromwell used the speech to bring troops into Parliament and dissolve the Rump Parliament. This results in with Cromwell being appointed as Lord Protector (Dictator). Ask the Irish how that ends up! If this is what you want, spell it out. Yes, she’s old and needed to retire, but don’t use anti-democratic examples to state your case. Celebrate her life and deeds and concentrate our fire on the foes of democracy.
Reply to Yankee in TX
November 6, 2025 at 9:39 pm
You write the prospective eulogy you want; some of us will continue to hold her feet to the fire because she’s still in office and a potential risk to House Dems’ aims. This open criticism is what separates us from the fascist GOP, where you don’t see complaints about their doddering elders because they shamelessly use them like meat puppets, or let themselves be cowed by the dementia-addled.
Once again, imagine the current House Dems finally whipping together one vote over majority present on a critical vote, and she kicks the bucket before casting a vote. All your praise means precisely dick at that point.
LOL. An over-literalness is a hobgoblin.
Cliches are, by definition, shorn of their historical origins because the sentiments they express have so many varied contemporary uses, especially after more than 350 years. If you don’t like how language develops, take it up with Leo Amery, David Davis, and, oh, Shakespeare and the Bible.
Though my writing instructors always warned against their use, I’m not opposed to cliches in general. I often find that they help unimaginative people express their thoughts without too much critical thinking. I’m opposed to cliches that are inapt. I’m sure that you’ll agree that the context of Cromwell’s speech is not an appropriate comparison to her retirement.
Oh, snap. Was that shade?
I’m sure you’ll agree that the political circumstances of mid-17th century England have SFA to do with Nancy Pelosi’s announced, but long delayed retirement. Cromwell’s bon mot, however, is apt, however much you hate him or like her.
FWIW, the comments in the financial press about Pelosi are absolutely scathing — she seems to be viewed as The Queen of Insider Trading. OTOH, the fact that she is from SF, one of the most dynamic economic engines on the globe, should count for something.
With that said, it’s time for quite a few people to retire. Schumer next, fingers crossed.
Is it as simple as, she has a credible challenger this year and just doesn’t feel like doing this shit anymore? Regardless, it was time, and maybe challenging a few more of them would be a good idea too
[Welcome back to emptywheel. SECOND REQUEST: Please choose and use a unique username with a minimum of 8 letters. We have adopted this minimum standard to support community security. Because your username is too short and common it will be temporarily changed to match the date/time of your first known comment until you have a new compliant username. Thanks. /~Rayne]
She’s 85 fucking years old. Imagine her dropping dead in the middle of a key House vote like the discharge vote on Epstein files should House Dems manage to obtain a majority with some GOP crossovers after the December 2nd TN-07 special election and/or Adelita Grijalva’s swearing in. This has been a problem for this entire term and beyond.
Pelosi, of course, always has the option of resigning immediately, and letting her Democratic governor appoint an interim congresscritter until the next special election. One suspects she’s hanging on in order to influence the 2026 midterms. In her view, that would mean more Gov. Mills and fewer or no Mamdanis.
Representative replacements cannot be appointed, they must be elected to complete the term. Otherwise, Governors like Abbott would simply seat Republicans to replace Democrats who could not fulfill their term.
Senators can be appointed, then face the next general election to serve out the remainder of the term of the Senator they replaced (if not at the end of the 6 year cycle already).
And as close as things are in the House, a couple of GOP deaths and suddenly we’re looking at Speaker Jeffries — as long as all the Dems stay in their seats.
I stand corrected. States are required to hold elections, special or otherwise, to replace House members who died or otherwise left office. But state law determines whether they hold special elections or wait until the next normal election.
About time. Past her pull date. I question whether the generational breakdown in the post needs more comment. The last thing we want is to see a generational divide and conquer greater than it’s already been made. The boomer Social Security and Medicare outlook and the Gen-Z jobs, debt, raising prices and housing worries are not against each other unless the money for social aims is constrained in budget setting. If DOD is cut and debt service as a big budget anchor around the neck is lessened via fairly taxing the rich, things can look better for social programs. We should never lose sight of the need to solicit and recruit the young into the Democratic Party, instead of the attitude of let them come to us and beg for a voice. That’s not the future, that’s Pelosi. Building more homes is constrained by generals and admirals and ranks junior to that being more plentiful than needed. And downsize the military academies, since that’s where the bulge of DOD salary drain starts. It is a question of will, not budget, and Pelosi was more a fund raising machine than any kind of progressive attuned to citizen need. She did what big donors wanted, and prospered and aged into the role understanding it and liking it. Let us do better.
You don’t win the SF seat in the US House of Representatives by being a corporate shill who blindly follows what big donors want. Pelosi is quite progressive in her personal political positions, and always has been.
That said, as Speaker of the House, or Leader of the House Democrats, she had to do more than simply push her political positions. In leadership roles, she knew that the 218th member was critical to getting anything done. At times, she would speak out and encourage folks to follow; at other times, she would hold back because that 218th vote wasn’t there and she wanted to keep those folks safe. The power gap in the House between being Speaker and being Minority Leader is vast, and she knew which side of that gap she wanted to be on.
Pelosi could count votes better than anyone in Congress, in either party, for the last 30 years. She was quite skilled at identifying how to get to 218, and also recognizing when that wasn’t going to happen.
Pelosi also worked to integrate newcomers into the House. My sense is that she and AOC came to understand each other rather quickly in AOCs first year, and I think some of AOCs biggest political moments in the House emerged from conversations that the two of them had. I can easily imagine private conversations with AOC saying “what does your long tenure tell you about this situation in the House?” and Nancy saying “What does your connection with younger voices tell you about this situation in the world?” To me, the media loved putting these two against each other (“Dems in Disarray!”), much more than these two actually fought with each other. Did they agree on everything? No. But were they huge antagonists? No.
Imagine having to deal on a knife edge with the likes of Manchin and Sinema. That would surely make anyone old before their time…
Pelosi had to deal with Bart Stupak (D-MI) over abortion as the last big intra-party battle to get the ACA passed. The back-and-forth it took to get to 218 votes was amazing.
Lots of compromises had to be made, which meant lots of angry folks, but to get the whole thing through, that’s what it took.
And, Peterr, I’ll add: Pelosi’s daughters, Christine and Alexandra, are strong advocates of Democratic political interests. A few years ago, Christine’s name came up as a potential successor to Nancy. But Scott Wiener may have since changed that.
As far as AOC and Nancy, I think they may have mutual respect and an understanding about the rigors of the work, but I believe they also have some strong disagreements and tensions. It seemed especially noticeable during the time Biden left the campaign and Harris began her 107 days. AOC made some intense, general comments that indicated a serious rift in how each thought the party should move forward. Still, I think she recognizes Pelosi as a role model, trail blazer, and a woman of many accomplishments.
Pelosi’s putting AOC on the House Oversight Committee as a new member of Congress was a sign of respect from Pelosi, and watching AOC’s questioning of witnesses and general demeanor on the committee made me think that she was picking Nancy’s brain for how best to make use of that post.
Shared respect can allow for a lot of disagreements on specific policies/strategies.
Well said, Peterr, agree wholeheartedly. I appreciate Nancy for her ability to count votes for sure, but especially all of the ways she intimidated the toxic entity in the WH. And for her courage on Jan 6.
I hope she has a few years of peace with Paul.
Sandwich Guy NOT GUILTY
Jury acquits D.C. ‘sandwich guy’ charged with chucking a sub at a federal agent Sean Dunn faced single misdemeanor offense after federal grand jurors refused to indict him on the felony charge sought by prosecutors. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/dc-sandwich-guy-verdict-rcna242142 Ryan J. Reilly Nov. 6, 2025, 2:27 PM EST
Molly Roberts has been live posting the trial:
https://bsky.app/profile/mollyroberts.bsky.social/post/3m4yazny3ik2m
November 6, 2025 at 2:05 PM
So it turns out you can indict a ham sandwich, but not convict it?
Have I told you lately that I love you ?
Awwww… :~)
After the DOJ failed to obtain a felony indictment from the Grand Jury, it proceeded instead via a misdemeanor charge (which does not require Grand Jury approval). It might be said that the DOJ first failed to indict a ham sandwich and then failed to convict a cucumber sandwich.
The Late Show CSI: Criminal Sandwich Investigation
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIEsxWgCUfo)
Been wondering how she’s been dealing with the Trump mobster David DePape’s October 2022 hammer attack on her husband Paul Pelosi.
When asked by Anderson Cooper about her husband’s condition in June 2024, over a year and a half after the attack, Nancy Pelosi replied, “He’s making progress. He’s about 80% there, physically. Traumatically, it’s terrible.”
Paul Pelosi also had a kidney transplant earlier this year.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/paul-pelosi-kidney-transplant-daughter/3796619/
And Nancy had a hip replacement in December 2024.
Ugh. I forgot about that. Like general anesthesia doesn’t pose any problems to elderly patient’s cognitive skills…*smh*
Bay area person here, relieved that Pelosi finally decided not to pursue the embarrassing Feinstein example. Watching the SF dems fight it out won’t be pretty but as a person of age myself, I’ve been writing to a bunch of these superannuated Dems for years, begging them to step aside. I even wrote to Jill Biden twice (thinking she was encouraging her hubby to keep going), DiFi over and over again. No replies.
WRT DiFi, your letters wouldn’t have made it past her handlers/caregivers.
Good tactic writing to Jill, though. IMO, Obama’s biggest failing (among many), was elevating Biden to run with him. Between his shivving of Anita Hill’s corroborators and his AUMF vote (not to mention a dozen other illiberal FUs), Obama must have been willfully blind and deaf to select him.
There is a lot of behind the scenes horse trading that goes on in the VP selection. For some old time party machine types, Obama as the Presidential candidate must have been a stretch. Biden would bring in the those types. The assumption probably was that Hillary would run after Obama’s two terms, which she did. That the Democratic Party didn’t have any candidates acceptable to all other than Biden in 2020 was a failure.
Sandwich Guy is not guilty of assault. Between the facts, the refusal of the GJ to indict, and bad structural lawyering by DoJ, Bondi must be so proud.
https://bsky.app/profile/sahilkapur.bsky.social/post/3m4y6nasj3s2e
November 6, 2025 at 1:22 PM
Her sign says:
I’m sure Mike can find a good christian justification for starving babies. If only to assuage his own conscience.
Mike Johnson’s notion of protecting babies seems closer to Herod’s than to Jesus’s.
She is my new hero.
Apparently one of Johnson’s staffers cranked up the TV volume in his office to try to drown her out, there’s video. Stay classy, Mike even if you don’t grasp what the Sermon on the Mount was about.
Not sure if the Pastor has read anything after Leviticus and before Romans 13:1.
Abigail. Not Alicia ;)
[Welcome back to emptywheel. FOURTH AND FINAL REQUEST: Please use the SAME USERNAME and email address each time you comment so that community members get to know you. You attempted to publish this comment a fourth username as “Katie” again, triggering auto-moderation; it has been edited yet again to reflect your established username. You have also commented as “Kate” and “KateJJ” which do not meet the site’s username standard. Please check your browser’s cache and autofill; future comments may not publish if username does not match. /~Rayne]
I m shocked, dumbfounded even, that I heard a Republican Congressperson who actually sounded kind of reasonable in a post-election interview on KQED public radio (on the specific topic of gerrymandering). Kevin Kiley (CA-03) represents mostly the Sierra Nevada plus some populated areas near Sacramento. In the aftermath of Prop 50 his safe seat is a goner, on paper at least. Not surprising that he opposed Prop 50 (many of us were less than thrilled to have to resort to it), but he also opposed the Texas shenanigans that required Prop 50. He supports a national commission on fair redistricting.
(He’s working on a bipartisan shutdown compromise with Dem Rep Sam Liccardo, former mayor of San Jose. Not sure what they are cooking up… )
He probably couldn’t hold the late Pete McCloskey’s (ahem) boot straps, but it will be a cold day in hell before I hear another GOPer making some sense any any subject.
Back in 1972, when they gerrymandered McCloskey’s district to get him out of Congress (it was a bipartisan gerrymander), he walked through parts of his new territory and showed up in a booth at the county fair in the summer.
I doubt most Rs would even consider doing any of those..
He doesn’t have much choice, in the face of the numbers in the Prop 50 election results. At least if he has any hope of a future in politics.
There are rumors that Kiley may choose to challenge Tom McClintock in the latter’s ruby-red district. As a resident of the area and someone just liberated from McClintock Country by Prop 50’s new district lines, I would love it.
in addition to the way independents voted, millenials and gen z appear to waking up and becoming a factor, in the recent cycle anyhow.
MSM: they are beholden to their corporate owners and advertisers, but more abject apologies from the courtier press and its tealeaf readers about their election projections, that were so off-base, would mollify me slightly.
they have so much egg on their faces, with their inexcusable sane-washing! no wonder online trolls create so much of the narrative, Dr EW’s take:
https: //talkingpointsmemo.com/ tpm-25/without-online-trolls-there-would-be-no-donald-trump
wrt: SNAP
https://bsky.app/profile/kyledcheney.bsky.social/post/3m4yh36f4bo24
November 6, 2025 at 3:53 PM
The Trump administration has indicated it will appeal a judge’s ruling that it must act by Friday to provide food stamp benefits to the tens of millions of Americans nationwide who rely on the government program.
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/news/trump-administration-set-appeal-strict-ruling-snap-benefits-rcna242463
Incredibly stupid politics combined with grievous harm to millions of human beings – a real twofer, that promise to appeal!
Rayne – sorry for whatever caused my CA-03 comment to get embargoed…
I don’t know what it was about your comment that triggered auto-mod. No big deal, it’s cleared and published now.
Gracias! It’s probably the only time I’ll ever go on record semi-praising a living Republican – the filters must have thought I’d been abducted by aliases.
A malignant narcissist named Trump,
now lives in a bit of a dump,
‘cos he thought he was King,
tore down the East Wing,
he’s really a bit of a chump.
I’m sure some of you can do better ;-)
glad to give you a bump
your shoulders need not slump
‘cuz here’s the thing
it has a nice ring
(said by a certified grump)
His party can no longer stump
It’s now in a terrible slump
It’s lost all its zing
It ain’t got that swing
It’s cursed by a dang heffalump!
I like your poem rather than lump
Yes, a narcissist and a bit plump
His iron’s a Ping
His cart is his bling
But neither reduces his rump.
Cheers!
A new piece by Philip Bump
Does seek GOPers to clump
They’ve lost all their sting
Malevolence they bring
Rudy, in drag, was a frump
Headline at SFGate: Supreme Court lets Trump block trans people from choosing passport sex markers
It doesn’t affect *them*, so they don’t care that people can’t get through immigration.
Saw this on a blog somewhere, don’t recall where
Pelosi and Schumer are talking
Pelosi: We need to find young, charismatic, progressive democrats who could be the future of the party
Schumer: (holding a sniper’s rifle) I think I see one
Pelosi: Take the shot
I’m having a hard time coming up with good reasons Nancy and her generation of democratic leaders should not be considered anything other than utter failures. If your answer is “they weren’t bush or trump” then I don’t think I can reason with you. She was a leader of a democratic party that failed to defend against bush the younger, 2 terms of trump and lost the supreme court for a generation. Meanwhile boomers have accumulated over half the wealth in the country and left youngsters debt of over $111,000 per person. This was all basically in peacetime. So please don’t tell me the answer is for me to donate more money to the democratic party.
Then don’t give your $ to the DNC. After all 5 billionaires gave $10 million and couldn’t prevent an DS from winning the mayor’s race in NYC.
What should you do instead? Stop navel gazing. Organize, vote, encourage others to vote, educate, canvass, knock on doors and promote civic engagement.
When asked to say who caused the Confederates to lose the Battle of Gettysburg, George Pickett said that he always felt that the Yankees had something to do with it. They have been better at this than we have. Ask what you can do for your country.
I think the failure for the Democrats was not fighting for a women’s right to choose for the entire term. It is pretty evident that had Democrats used the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as allies in that fight we would not have the situation we have today. Roe was wrong and we should have fought hard for a women’s right which would have protected all of our Rights.
Oh and the drug war as making naturally occurring plants that humans evolved with illegal has certainly been another capitulation to an obvious right, but alas that cash has to come from somewhere so both sides drop their knees for the real drug dealers located on the NY stock exchange.
I am delighted that younger people are entering the Democratic Party and re-invigorating a party that tried to cling to its Boomer and pre-Boomer leaders too long. I was fortunate enough to retire at 62, and I wanted to in part, to provide growth opportunities for younger people. As far as the national political scene- AOC, Mallory McMorrow, James Talarico, Jasmine Crockett – the Democrats have a broad, deep and diverse bench of some outstanding young people to lead us forward into the future. Republicans have diddley squat (MTG??). I am very optimistic about the future of America, once we put Donald Trump behind us forever.
Nancy Pelosi made history as the first woman elected as Speaker of the House of Representatives. HUGE accomplishment from a stay at home mom to speaker of the house and champion for children.
One of her best talents as Speaker was counting votes. It is a vital skillset for a Speaker.
That would be an important training for her to create for future Dem speakers. A legacy of sorts.
It is a relief that the, “It is time,” message has been put into action for her career.
My congressman is Steny Hoyer, whom I like. But it’s time . . .
Mine is a back-bencher D. In Congress since 1997. Boomer. More conservative than I like.
Maybe she is just tired. I say job well done.
Can’t wait to see emptywheel’s take on the release of Alexander Smirnoff, as reported at Daily Kos.
Pelosi was one of those women who made history, i.e. first female speaker. Having watched her on the news over the decades I have nothing but admiration for her. She did a better job than most and came across as tough all the while in high heels and perfect make up. That takes work. Pelosi like Shirley Chisholm was a leader who did some amazing things. when Barbra Jordon spoke on t.v. I always tried to ensure I was able to watch. Considered her an amazing politician. Patti Murray and Elizabeth Warren have also been interesting to watch. Now we have AOC I am looking forward to watching her advance. all of these women have contributed greatly to the country and the politics of the country. Some may have complaints about Pelosi, but really who do you think could have done a better job or fought as hard as she did.
All I can say is thank you. Pelosi was an inspiration as were the other women I mentioned. When I would see them on t.v. I knew if they could do it, then so could others.
You’re describing Pelosi’s past history. The problem is that she’s had 40 years of it to the exclusion of younger candidates and made insufficient effort to train up a replacement in her district years ago, to help reduce friction in her district when a new representative runs and is elected for office.
Don’t confuse past success with current problematic behavior.