Liz Cheney: Calling My Daddy a Torturer Is Libelous

I just got home and am wiped out (bmaz kept me out partying in NYC), so I thought I’d throw put this up for discussion [JimWhite is probably right I don’t want to say "throw"]. 

BabyDick says:

  • She hasn’t seen the memos she’s convinced show torture was effective (no mention of whether she saw the IG report which says torture isn’t effective)
  • She still ignores the part of Admiral Blair’s statement that shows we only got general info from torture–like the 10 pieces of intelligence we got after waterboarding Abu Zubaydah 83 times
  • She says respect for the law is a "policy difference"
  • She invokes libel if we call her Daddy or those incompetent contractors who waterboarded KSM 183 times torturers

You want to argue that last point in court, BabyDick? Because I sure do think that PapaDick and Mitchell’s contractors are torturers.

image_print
155 replies
  1. JimWhite says:

    I’d love to see a libel trial with you in the stand, Marcy. You’d rip BabyDick and PapaDick to shreds.

    [Aside: maybe “partying” and “throw this up” shouldn’t be used in the same sentence. Congrats again.]

  2. kbskiff says:

    It must warm Cheney’s heart to see his evil spawn come to his defense.

    Doesn’t look like many others are going to step forward.

    I can guarantee you one thing though the Dickinator won’t go down without taking others with him. Once the floodgates open it will become a torrent.

    • BoxTurtle says:

      It must warm Cheney’s heart

      Objection! Assumes material not in evidence.

      Boxturtle (The pacemaker is just a cover story)

    • bobschacht says:

      Actually, I think the Dickinator will go down– almost.
      Here’s my scenario:

      * We actually know, now, that Obama talks with Georgie from time to time.
      * Georgie has been very quiet, publicly, unlike PapaChainy.
      * Bit by bit, a mountain of evidence is piling around PapaChainy, with arrows pointing to him.

      So I think PapaChainy is being set up to Take One for the Team. The noose will slowly circle around him and grow tighter and tighter… UNTIL…
      The day before he is scheduled to appear on the docket, under oath, for war crimes, PapaChainy will clutch his chest, uttering “Arghhhh!”, do a nice little pirouette, and fall to the ground, dead as a mackerel (More or less what Bill Casey did.) Then there will be a great to do, and everyone will say how unfortunate, but that now that the torturer-in-chief was dead, there really wasn’t much point in pursuing any other convictions (i.e., he’s dead now, so we can blame it all on him.)

      YMMV.

      Bob in HI

      • Rayne says:

        Ah, the Kenneth Lay option…

        I tend to think the Cheney clan would try to use his health as a last chance measure to protect his evil ass. They’d probably find a way to have him declared incompetent by way of “pump-head” and weasel him out.

        He’d probably not go the Bill Casey pirouette or the Lay option, but you can bet there’d be some drama to distract from the crimes.

        bmaz (102) — yup, what a pity we won’t get to go all deep discovery on their Cheney asses because they wanted to try and shut up DFH bloggers.

  3. BoxTurtle says:

    Somebody should point out to Liz that truth is an absolute defense against libel. I suspect her father has already pointed out to her the dangers of the discovery process.

    But she’s doing her job quite well: She’s getting generally friendly media coverage of her defense of her father. And she seems to be able to get it whenever she wants, not just on Fox.

    Boxturtle (Personally, I don’t think that ANY Cheney should be quoted publically unless under oath)

  4. freepatriot says:

    you jes go ahea an throw up whatever you want, you earned that right

    ((((((emptywheel))))))

    we’ll hold down the fort 4 a while

    you wanna give us the key to the liquor cabinet, or should we just break in like we always do ???

    • marksb says:

      you wanna give us the key to the liquor cabinet, or should we just break in like we always do ???

      Hey Freep, one of my customers wants to trade some of his recent harvest for CO2, will that help? It’s not Friday, but…

  5. marksb says:

    But but but….she’s good TeeVee! You get Cheney’s absolute positions only not so ugly on the presentation. Seriously, I can’t tell anymore if this is a set of completely psychotic delusions or a pack of calculated lies to forward a specific agenda. We always assume the lies/agenda theory…but maybe these people are just f’ing crazy…?

    • Nell says:

      I can’t tell anymore if this is a set of completely psychotic delusions or a pack of calculated lies to forward a specific agenda. We always assume the lies/agenda theory…but maybe these people are just f’ing crazy…?

      Nah, calculated lies to further an agenda. Blonde-haired young mother of five is way better teevee, less bleed-through of the terrifying evil than heavy-breathing bald would-be dictator.

      Want more evidence it’s calculated? Look at the themes hit in the 2004 press conference held by Gonzales and Haynes. Sound familiar? It’s practically a talking points memo for the wingers this past two months.

      Mitchell and Jessen: you can run, guys, but you can’t hide forever. I hope you’re looking over your shoulder every minute.

    • BoxTurtle says:

      She can’t file the suit. Only Dick can file. And he’s too smart for that. You don’t suppose she’s trying to frighten some DFH bloggers, do you? Even if the suit is baseless, it’s still very expensive.

      They’re getting really scared. There’s enough confirmed evidence in public to bring charges already, if anybody were really interested in doing so. Does a federal prosecutor have enough autonomy to do so without political authorization from Holder?

      Positions available : US Atty. Must believe that the law need not be enforced if politically inconvienent. Apply B. Obama, 1600 Penn Av., Washington DC.

      Boxturtle (Whos worse: The person who commits the crime or the person who covers it up?)

      • Nell says:

        Even if the suit is baseless, it’s still very expensive.

        Bring. It. On.

        Easiest. Fundraiser. Ever.

        • BoxTurtle says:

          Perhaps they’re NOT going after DFH bloggers. Perhaps that’s an open threat to MSM that they’ll sue the first company that can’t afford to defend itself.

          But it’s much more likely that it’s just an expression of frustration. Put yourself in Cheneys place: Everywhere you go, you read more negative information. Even your pet network and your pet reporters are talking about it. Everytime you come up with a story, the DFH bloggers have it debunked before the nightly news. And you can no longer control the flow of information. You’re arguably the least popular politician currently living and most of your friends are in the same hole as you…or don’t want to join you.

          The only person who’ll defend you is your daughter. Perhaps you worry what will happen when she finds out the entire truth.

          Boxturtle (Or perhaps she already knows and just doesn’t want to see her father die in prison)

          • greenwarrior says:

            shall we assume she’s an heir to the fortune amassed from halliburton’s harvest from war?

        • Loo Hoo. says:

          Exactly what I was thinking. Babydick is really good at cutting off the people she is sparring with. Baby’s been schooled.

      • perris says:

        you’re absolutely correct, I think therefore we should all post as big and bold as possible;

        CHENEY IS A TORTURER LIZ, NOW IF YOU THINK THIS ISN’T TRUE AND WANT TO HAVE A LIBEL SUIT, WE QUOTE TEH BUSHKINS;

        ………………..…………BRING IT ON!!!!!!………………………

        *pretty please*

  6. FrankProbst says:

    Sorry, but she’s still only the third most despicable Cheney. She’s got a lot more work to do if she wants to move up the list.

  7. rosalind says:

    from mrs. philip “babydick” perry’s wikipedia entry:

    In August 2008, the New York Times reported that Liz Cheney was encouraging her father to write a book on his political career, and that she was indexing her father’s pre-vice-presidential papers housed in various libraries across the country, “drafting timetables and outlines for his review.

    (emphasis mine)

    mmm, timetables…

    • bgrothus says:

      In August 2008, the New York Times reported that Liz Cheney was encouraging her father to write a book on his political career, and that she was indexing her father’s pre-vice-presidential papers housed in various libraries libel areas across the country, “drafting timetables and outlines for his review.”

      Sorry, had to fix that.

  8. Nell says:

    Put yourself in Cheneys place…

    I’m guessing he feels relatively safe for now, given the way in which the media keep chasing the shiny objects and the Villagers’ clear disinclination to get to the bottom of this.

    And although most Obama apologists seem to have failed to grasp the way in which the contrast Cheney provided to Obama’s speech allowed Obama to move well right of the public, not to mention his own campaign promises, I feel fairly confident that Cheney understood it. The preventive detention proposal was, I’m sure, good for several satisfied chortles.

  9. fatster says:

    Reply to emptywheel @ 11 (Reply button not working)

    We don’t have any scotch tape. Will duct tape be ok? (We used all the scotch tape trying to fix a couple of things that experienced mishaps while you were away.)

    So happy to see you are back! Hope there’s a video coming our way soon.

  10. joanneleon says:

    Liz looked a little more worn down today than usual. I wonder if she’s getting tired of this gig as Lynne pushes her out the door each morning. And by the way, where is Lynne? Maybe she’s been busy setting up an “offshore” hideout somewhere, just in case, never quite knowing if charges are going to pop up unexpectedly.

    When they asked her if she planned to run for office… geez, who thought that was a good question?

    Of all the dishonesty we heard in this latest appearance, I thought the worst was when she warned that it was not a good idea to set the precedent of prosecuting former office holders for “policy differences”. Not only was it incredibly dishonest but it sounded to me like a threat. (As if Cheney has any power to carry out such a threat anyway). Policy differences? Man, there’s no limit to the depths of their dishonesty.

  11. MadDog says:

    And I bet Lizard is spitting tacks about this:

    FBI planning a bigger role in terrorism fight

    Bureau agents will gather evidence to ensure that criminal prosecutions of alleged terrorists are an option. The move is a reversal of the Bush administration’s emphasis on covert CIA actions.

    The FBI and Justice Department plan to significantly expand their role in global counter-terrorism operations, part of a U.S. policy shift that will replace a CIA-dominated system of clandestine detentions and interrogations with one built around transparent investigations and prosecutions.

    Under the “global justice” initiative, which has been in the works for several months, FBI agents will have a central role in overseas counter-terrorism cases. They will expand their questioning of suspects and evidence-gathering to try to ensure that criminal prosecutions are an option, officials familiar with the effort said…

    Shorter Lizard: “No more torture porn? Oh noes! Say it ain’t so!”

  12. oldtree says:

    Congratulations Marcy! Hope the big apple was a blast.
    You know, if BabyDick keeps talking, she is going to put the noose around the old poodle yet!

  13. TheraP says:

    Gosh, we’ve come to the point where to describe something according to the usual lexicon is called “libel”.

    @21 Lynn? Last time I looked her org had funded an ad in the Times, whose first word, in 2 inch high letters, was TORTURE. Since that time she seems to have gone into hiding.

    Lizzie, dear… torture is a word. In the dictionary. Not an epithet!

  14. Quicksand says:

    So, what office is BabyDick going to run for, anyway?

    I wouldn’t vote for her for dog catcher — the poor dogs. I can see the headline now — “Fido, Rover Confirm Iraq, Al Qaeda Link”

    • freepatriot says:

      So, what office is BabyDick going to run for, anyway?

      Village Idiot

      it’s a demotion from his former position as Prince Of Darkness, but it’s still above his intellectual pay grade

      NEXT ???

      this whole blogger thingy don’t look so hard

      anybody got a hat pin ???

  15. Mary says:

    One thing would shut her up fast and that would be if the questioner had said, “But the information tortured from al-Libi that was used to make the case for war in Iraq – information about al-Qaeda training camps in Iraq – was all false. so how many lives are you claiming the IRaq war has saved?”

    Or mabye, “How is it if this program was so effective, after 250+ waterboardings we still didn’tget Bin Laden and still didn’t know that Iraq was not affiliated with Bin Laden?”

    Or evena, “So, Liz, are you saying that Hussein’s estate has a right of action against your Dad for all the libelous things that he said about ties to al-Qaeda and WMDs? Golly – that might be an interesting “damage” computation, doncha think cookie?”

    • emptywheel says:

      yea, if I ever end up on TV with her, I’m gonna ask her about the 5000 Americans PapaDick killed with the war that al-Libi’s torture induced disinfo drummed up.

      • Mary says:

        I’m already booked for the pay for view.

        I’m also wanting to see you on Maddow or Olberman or elsewhere, expanding on the cables to Gonzo before the OLC memos theme.

        Olberman touched on Gonzales trying to lay off the torture advice on Ashcroft et al, but while he did a good job he didn’t mention anything about the pre-opinions torture and just who it was that Mitchell was corresponding with for that.

  16. behindthefall says:

    re illphd @ 149 on last thread: http://www.propublica.org/arti…..ne-mia-527

    Just how badly do you suppose the CIA wanted those two not to be on camera or in court. Isn’t there a set of “men” who “tell no tales”? Did they have families? Anybody seen the families?

  17. oldgold says:

    Liz Cheney might want to become familiar with NYT v. Sullivan before threatening libel suits.

  18. TheraP says:

    Ok. Poor, poor, Lizzie. It’s clear she sees her Daddy as a Savior. And to call a savior a Torturer? Why it’s like calling Herod a torturer! Salome would have been upset too.

    Lizzie, you and Salome need to form a support group! For starry-eyed daughters of tyrannical torturers.

    LIBELOUS: Dial 5-423-5687 – Operators are standing by!

  19. behindthefall says:

    Where is she getting all these citations of assertions that “torture” was effective in averting disaster? Making it up? Thought that the opposite conclusion had been reached. There’s nothing quite as effective as a boldly repeated bald-faced lie to confuse me.

  20. Rayne says:

    Woo! The girl’s frisky, in spite of travel/celebration fatigue! Amazing what a well-deserved award will do for one’s energy level!

    Not only would Deadeye have to file suit — and not Miss Lizzy — but there is a protocol which precedes a libel suit.

    Deadeye would have to request that Marcy cease and desist any libel, take down any libelous comments, and issue correction or retraction statements FIRST, before filing suit.

    And I’ll bet none of the mainstream media, which are intimately familiar with this protocol, have the smarts or the balls to ask Missy Lizzy whether her Deadeye Daddy has ever taken this first step with Marcy or Firedoglake or any blogger.

    And I’ll bet we’ll never see the mainstream media strap on a spine and ask Missy Lizzy why comments about Deadeye’s role in torture are more exceptionally libelous than comments about his role in the outing of Valerie Plame.

    Boy, it’s been years now and I’ve never heard Missy Lizzy say that Deadeye Daddy has ever taken even the first step with regards to comments about his role in Plame’s outing…how curious, hmmm?

  21. bmaz says:

    Dick Cheney TORTURED PEOPLE! Liz Cheney is a LIAR.

    Here I am BabyDick. Please sue me. Go ahead, make my day.

    Do ya feel lucky punk? Well, do ya?

  22. KayInMaine says:

    I bet Liz can’t wait for the abuse torture rape photos to come out! She’ll show her 5 children these photos and tell them this is how great Americans act.

  23. KayInMaine says:

    I hope Dick Cheney goes to jail for showing his daughter Liz highly classified information when she didn’t have the security clearance to view them.

  24. KayInMaine says:

    If attacks were really thwarted, HOW COME NO ONE WAS ARRESTED WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THESE PLOTS? Wouldn’t it make sense that there were arrests to prove that impending attacks were going to happen?

    • Rayne says:

      Oh, wait, it might get better.

      We haven’t seen arrests, but we have seen captures and detentions.

      And we’ve seen plenty of evidence of torture, too.

      But the hoopla about the torture replete with BabyDick’s tantrums is a concerted effort to draw attention away from more insidious problems.

      There was a “K-C-D” order issued — kill, capture and/or detain — and the reason we may not have seen arrests is the same reason we aren’t seeing Missy Lizzy crying about libelous claims that her dad had anything to do with ordering KILLINGS. Missy and her daddy may really want us to talk up torture to the point where we ignore even uglier truths.

      The rapes of men, women, children and their torture are hideous enough, but just how many outright killings were there without any effort to obtain intelligence first, or even ascertain whether the target was legitimate under the scope of military authorization or other unclassified/still classified orders?

  25. Funnydiva2002 says:

    Leave mah daddy aloooooooone!!!
    What else is there to say about Baby Dick? Libel? I’m with EW: tell it to da judge, honey.

    Funny Wheelie Diva

  26. emptywheel says:

    MD @53 (And did you guys break the reply button while breaking into the liquor cabinet?)

    Well at least it looks like he got home from the big city in one piece. And if he didn’t bring home a lampshade, I’m sure his family would be disappointed. SOme people bring home just t-shirts, you know.

  27. neurophius says:

    Interesting that TortureDick would send out such an objective, unbiased and well-informed advocate to defend him.

    Is that the best he’s got?

    • neurophius says:

      p.s. Dick Cheney shot an old man in the face with a shotgun and then made the old man apologize.

      • neurophius says:

        which makes me wonder…what rock is Addington hiding under these days…why isn’t he out there defending his former boss?

  28. KayInMaine says:

    Dick Cheney said torture is an American value, so what grounds for libel does Liz Cheney really have at this point? If torture is so good and delicious and we know Liz agrees with everything her Darth says, then technically, she & Dickey would have to sue all of us for saying a bad horrible thing about them which will get them to admit that torture is wrong and is bad, right? LOL

    I’m telling you….this could be a lot of fun.

  29. readerOfTeaLeaves says:

    Agree.

    Liz Cheney was given a Dept of State position overseeing policy in the Mideast b/c her father was VP.

    But no doubt she would claim that it is ‘libelous’ for anyone to inquire what happened under her area of authority. Were any of the countries that Liz Cheney was ‘in contact with’ carrying out harsh methods that could potentially have undercut the success of US military plans in the Mideast? I don’t know the answer, but asking the question is hardly ‘libelous’.

    Liz Cheney just may turn out to be a walkin’, talkin’ fundraiser’s dream.

  30. jayt says:

    Off Topic and most often Off Color:

    I see that there are 23 Diggs.

    Are we Digging again?

  31. Twain says:

    Daddy Darth must really be worried about his hide since he has emerged from his steel-lined bunker to tell us how great he is. And Lizzy should STFU.

  32. Peterr says:

    If Liz isn’t careful, she’s going to admit to being shown some documents she had no business seeing, or being told things she had no business being told.

      • Peterr says:

        A general security clearance — even a high level one — is only half the issue when it comes to getting access to classified information. The other half is enshrined in the three golden words: “need to know”.

        Deputy assistant secretaries are fairly far down on the “need to know” totem pole.

        Given how closely the WH, CIA, and DOD have held a lot of this stuff, I have a hard time imagining that a Deputy Assistant Secretary at State was cleared for most of this. Unless, of course, someone’s been playing with the pixie dust again.

        • bmaz says:

          Pretty hard to see how she qualifies for “need to know” about things that Intel Committee, and even some Gang of 8 members, did not.

            • Rayne says:

              Once again, another example of GMTA.

              Does it seem like there might be something else going on under our noses? I wonder if during her many little broadcast appearances our too-busy-to-run-for-office mother-of-five has said something the ranking minority intel members couldn’t say and we missed it…

  33. Jo Fish says:

    Is this Li’l Lizzy’s latest attempt to do the Cheney womenz thing of “he’s a very bad man”? Fer fucks sake, can we have less Cheney and more prosecution?

  34. DeanOR says:

    I guess the defense is that just like the guys doing the torturing were just following orders, Cheney was just issuing orders and did not torture anyone. Your daddy is a torturer. So sue me.

  35. fatster says:

    White House spokesman bashes Brit press for torture reports

    BY DAVID EDWARDS AND STEPHEN WEBSTER 

Published: May 28, 2009 
Updated 7 hours ago

    “Following an explosive report that some of the torture photos President Obama is withholding depict graphic sexual abuse, the Department of Defense and White House came out to vigorously refute the claims.
    “In a surprisingly broad denial, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs cast doubt on the entire British media.

    . . .

    “Helen Thomas, pitching a follow-up, asked Gibbs if he had actually seen the photos.

    ‘“I have not seen the photos,” he replied.”

    http://rawstory.com/08/news/20…..urpressed/

    • Mary says:

      I notice, too, that they go after the British press for how it characterizes the pictures “the ones in question” but no one seems to want to ante up and say Taguba is lying or got it wrong about what kinds of pictures and videos he saw during his investigations.

      • Petrocelli says:

        If ObamaCo think they can go up against the British Press, they’ve got another think coming …

    • foothillsmike says:

      Gosh this sure sounds like one of em thar activist judges trying to legislate from the bench.

  36. Loo Hoo. says:

    Did you guys all notice that the “show text” gizmo works? I just noticed it last thread, and it’s sooo cool.

    Hey Marcy, can’t wait to the the YouTube bmaz tells us is coming! Hurrah! (but not the last)

  37. Jo Fish says:

    If memory serves, wasn’t L’il Lizzy some kind of nepotism appointment at the State Department in their middle eastern desk or sumpum? How do we know that she was not working with her daddy’s “off the books” teams at CIA to set up places for renditions and such?

    Maybe she’s seen more than she’s talking about, and is out there trying to burnish Darth’s image before the end. And yes, the discovery phase of a libel trial alone would be worth the price of admission. I’m in for some cash on that fund-raiser.

    If Darth does the Bill Casey pre-trial pacemaker piroutte can we ask that the “Imperial March” from Star Wars be played at his funeral while they carry the casket to the grave? Please please please?

  38. foothillsmike says:

    Liz was asked today on the toobz if she was planning to run for office and indicated that with five kids she didn’t have that on the horizon.

  39. scribe says:

    This is really funny.

    There is, in libel law, something called the “libel-proof plaintiff”. Think … OJ, post the Goldmans winning their civil suit.
    Think … Sadaam, pre-demise.
    Think … you get the idea.

    The concept of the libel-proof plaintiff is, in short, that there are some people whose reputations are so bad because of what they have done, that it is impossible (often, as a matter of law) to defame them. This is an affirmative defense which is entirely different from “truth as an absolute defense” to a libel suit.

    I would think Deadeye is working his way into the libel-proof plaintiff category. Making an old man apologize for getting in the way of your shotgun indicates someone who is so feared that he must be quite, quite evil.

    Good to see EW and BMAZ made it home in one piece.

    • Mary says:

      No way – I’m angling to get that representation for the Hussein Estate and I’ll argue strenuously that Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice & Bush accomplished the seemingly impossible. Made up such bad crap that even Hussein can claim libel. After all, it’s a special ability with lies that gets a whole country invaded and creates a million + refugees as collateral damage.

      • scribe says:

        Don’t waste your time: there is no cause of action for defamation when the person allegedly defamed is dead.

        Law’s been that way for hundreds of years.

        • Mary says:

          I do not need another horse
          I do not need another horse
          I do not need another horse
          I do not need another horse
          I do not need another horse
          I do not need another horse
          I do not need another horse
          I do not need another horse
          I do not need another horse
          I do not need another horse
          I do not need another horse
          I do not need another horse

          I say this to myself a lot.

    • bmaz says:

      Well, not to mention that, of course, suing someone for libel would open the pricks up to discovery; and if there is one thing they will NEVER do, it is that.

      • scribe says:

        One of my law school professors had, prior to going to academe, worked on major libel defense cases for major media outlets. His words remain with with me:

        The last thing you want to be is a libel plaintiff. Every aspect of your life is opened up to scrutiny and, the minute you balk at answering anything, you lose both the case and your reputation. (The latter because everyone decides that there was some reservoir of dirt in your life that you decided to hide by losing.) The next to last thing you want to be is a libel defendant.

        Ask Roger Clemens about that. He sued for defamation and look where it’s getting him.

        • fatster says:

          “academe”. Pardon me for this, which will seem trivial. You have posted wise and elegant things here. I have read them, but I let slide my manners and didn’t let you know that I have learned from you. For this moment, though, I just want to thank you for “academe.”

  40. Mary says:

    OT -for bmaz mostly

    I saw that Burge’s lawyers have tried to get his torture case dressed as a false statements case spun for staleness.

    http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wls…..motion.pdf

    I also noticed that, despite lots of prior inquiries into Burge, none of which resulted in charges, for some reason this news team has no problems using “torture” instead of “harsh interrogation”

    http://abclocal.go.com/wls/sto…..id=6835518

    I guess to rate the “harsh interrogation” deference, he’d have to have disappeared a few children.

  41. bmaz says:

    Heh, oh yeah, the old pre-indictment delay motion ought to fix things all up for Burge. Good luck with that. Hope they filed that through ECF and didn’t waste a tree.

  42. MadDog says:

    And more totally OT:

    2 Makers of Auto Parts File for Court Protection

    Two Michigan auto parts suppliers, Visteon and Metaldyne, filed for bankruptcy protection on Thursday, becoming the latest to falter in the industry slump.

    Visteon is the largest supplier to the Ford Motor Company, which spun off the parts maker in 2000. Metaldyne’s biggest customer is Chrysler, which filed for Chapter 11 protection last month…

    …Visteon’s bankruptcy, which does not include any of its overseas units, could be costly for Ford, the only Detroit automaker not taking billions of dollars in government aid. Ford accounts for about a third of Visteon’s $9 billion in annual sales…

    Chickens, meet roost.

  43. Rayne says:

    Mad Dog (105) — That’s just the tip of the iceberg. There’s more to come; nearly every supplier is on pins and needles right now, hanging by a thread, and combined they employ far more than the Big 2.5 combined, since the car makers are really only design/marketing/assembly companies now.

    And every time I’ve heard Ford ads which tout their avoidance of TARP, I’ve smelled bullshit. Visteon is Ford’s Mini-Me, and it’s going to need federal help along with a mess of other Ford suppliers.

  44. Rayne says:

    Peterr (109) — certainly would have a tough time explaining why a certain Deputy Asst. Secretary would know more about the goings-on of CIA versus the ranking minority members of Congressional Intel Committees…

      • Rayne says:

        Yeah, that freakin’ pixie dust is chapping my ass right now. They are hiding behind several classified documents — definitely not the ones Deadeye is asking for — and the documents would probably make very clear that there was an intent to be abusive beginning in September 2001.

  45. TheraP says:

    Several ideas thrown out above make we wonder: What if Lizzie is trying to protect Daddy in order to also protect herself? What if she’s implicated somehow? If she was in the middle east area, might she have somehow been involved in people being rendered to other countries? For example, in going around Powell in terms of renditions to other countries? I may be completely barking up the wrong tree – but again – what if she’s not just doing it to help Daddy? What if she herself is implicated in torture?

  46. orionATL says:

    the last refuges of a scoundrel:

    – patriotism

    and

    – behind his daughter’s skirts.

    baby dick is trying to intimidate; the psy op campaign papadick has been running on the american media must not be working very well.

  47. fatster says:

    Apologies if this has already been posted.

    Flashback: Torture photos depict ‘rape and murder,’ Sen. Graham said in 2004

    BY STEPHEN C. WEBSTER 

Published: May 28, 2009 
Updated 8 hours ago

    “In spite of the White House and Pentagon’s synchronized rebuttal to an explosive story by the Daily Telegraph alleging the White House is suppressing images of prisoners’ sexual abuse, almost nothing about the paper’s Thursday morning report was new, least of all the charges of rape.

    ‘“The American public needs to understand, we’re talking about rape and murder here,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), telling reporters in 2004 why the Abu Ghraib photos should not be released as former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld faced calls for his resignation. “We’re not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience. We’re talking about rape and murder and some very serious charges.”

    . . .

    “Even Rumsfeld called the recorded abuse “cruel,” “inhuman” and “blatantly sadistic.”’

    http://rawstory.com/08/news/20…..re-photos/

  48. SWEG says:

    I hereby call the motherfucker a torturer and would absolutely love to go to court over the issue.

    • LabDancer says:

      I feew obwiged to wigorously wecommend weestwaint whenevew wefewing to this weveewed patwiot and wobust fwiend to the wepubwic – and that would incwude his offspwing Inconsequentia:



      …..UeedMTlN0k

  49. dosido says:

    Did anyone else vomit over Carlos’ bootlicking when he asked her over and over if Liz was going to run for public office? And she says oh hey I’m too busy as a mother of five (I’m the straight girl, remember?) and I’m helping my dad rewrite history.

    puke.

    the “policy difference” line is the one that always gets my goat. Yeah, when you break the law I guess that could be called a policy difference in teh same way you call torture “enhanced interrogation”. pure evil, that family.

  50. dosido says:

    I was also appalled that MSNBC gave about 20 minutes for more Cheney PR. Did they buy that air time?

  51. ImperialFlow says:

    How does that work? I know that as a public figure it’s pretty much a free-for-all, and that any libel or slander case is essentially de facto non-starter as a result. Does that situation change as a public figure moves back into private life? Even if the statements being made are regarding an era of their public service?

    Regardless, the point is moot, as the statements have to be false, and known to be false with the intent of character damage when made. If you believe what you’re saying, or at least that it’s reasonable that you would believe it, then it doesn’t meet the standard of libel/slander; as I understand it. Then of course the fact that it’s ostensibly true undermines the whole affair.

    If I ever meet Liz Cheney, i’ll introduce myself, and immediately ask, “Are you retarded? That’s not rhetorical. I really want to know. Do you have a measurable IQ?”

  52. TheraP says:

    I remind you again of that huge one page ad in the Times, exactly two weeks ago. With the word, TORTURE, in 2″ high letters. An ad I reproduced in the blog (and someone else blogged on and gave a photo of the ad). That ad was traced by us back to right-wing organization related to Lynn Cheney (cheney’s wife). This is all interconnected. Even with the threatened photos, I think. It’s a family effort to do “something” – and if the whole family is involved in a cover-up, then the whole family is trying to protect itself. There’s also that lawsuit, by Halliburton share-holders, against cheney. For his actions affecting the stock value. That’s like a defamation suit – but accusing him of defaming Halliburton.

    That ad came out after cheney had already started running around, giving all those interviews. And before Lizzie started running around giving all these interviews.

    This is one panicky family.

    • bobschacht says:

      Good insight in connecting those dots!

      That’s why I think Cheney is going to be the Sacrifice. He will become the Evil One on whom we can project All Our Sins, enabling everyone else to “move on.”

      The Cheney family may not like it, but the pieces are falling into place. Cheney gets the ax, everyone else moves on.

      Bob in HI

    • LabDancer says:

      I’m comforted you use the word “panicky”; I think I see many signs of stress in humans, but after years of failing to relate to Biggus Dickus, I’m resisting trusting eyes and ears.

      IMO the second most impressive thing about this is how simple, how unsophisticated is the strategy:

      a campaign built around the briefest blunt-forciest most repeatable set of false choices, delivered by the only messengers who can be trusted to never apologize for anything and keep going undaunted in the face of all verbal challenges: cruel? OR tough; crime? OR policy; thrashing about like headless chickens? OR proactive response to unforeseeable demands of unprecedented dimensions; yesterday’s rape of the CIA? OR today’s CIA advocate; hell spawn? OR middle-class middle-aged married daughter/mom to his 5 grandkids who all love their grampa. But you have to be single-minded and unrelenting: if it takes running for the party’s nomination in 2012 thereby contributing to its inability to rehabilitate itself into electibility, then that’s what it takes. Who can beat that?

      The single most impressive thing is he could get away with it: O.J. on a galactic scale.

      • TheraP says:

        I don’t see “panic” in the demeanor of anyone in this family. And I have no sympathy for their plight – which they’ve brought on themselves. But for a man who has shunned the public for so long, this recent assault on the air waves, to me, “spells” panic. The ad that used the word TORTURE over and over. The serial tv appearances.

        And you, LabDancer, have pointed out the “simple, unsophisticated strategy” and the “blunt force” method.

        But what if he is “taken down” as OJ was, not by the initial crime but by a spin-off crime?

        Is there something we’re not seeing
        , some here have asked? That set me to thinking. That’s what jogged my memory about Halliburton. For economic consequences may loom larger right now than the potential political repercussions. He’s been called incompetent in that lawsuit. And every day that he’s called a criminal and a torturer in the political arena, it does not help that lawsuit! For that is what the suit is partly about.

        It’s obviously all tied together. But he may have to spend huge amounts of time fighting that lawsuit. With is own funds. And if we consider that he might die before facing the political and criminal justice consequences, maybe the lawyers here can consider what might happen with these lawsuits if he dies. And the stress can’t be helping his heart.

        So maybe he’s fighting on two fronts right now? And the one is upping the ante of the other?

        Sure looks that way!

        And still… I have to wonder if Lizzie is somehow implicated in the war crimes (in some hidden way, in the famous cheney style). Plus, did she ever work for Halliburton? Or her husband? What’s his role here?

        I could be way off base. But the Halliburton lawsuit might explain why the cheney family is engaged in this lonely, “blunt-force” media tour.

        From a strategic point of view, it couldn’t hurt to assume my theory is correct. And spread it around. After all, the facts are true! And the facts seem to be making this family very antsy. The more antsy, the more chance for tactical errors, I’d say.

        I may put up a small blog on this and test the waters over at TPM. If Trolls are drawn, that would, to my mind, be a positive sign. He’s losing political capital here, but the right-wing media have not caught on.

        That NY Times ad never made sense to me – till now.

        • TheraP says:

          Ok, presence of TPM Troll (over and over) suggests to me my little theory has merit, I’m pleased to say…

          (link for that @ 150)

          P.S. I have a Mac and Firefox. And seem to have no trouble posting.

  53. Robt says:

    Liz,
    You and your daddy tortures America.

    Libelous?

    Daddy hides behind the U.S. Gov’t to protect him from war crimes and the legal obligations.

    As your Daddy siad when asked about the fallen troops in Iraq because NO WMD or link to al qaida. Liz, your Daddy rep;ied, “SO”!

    And another thing, has any one in the Cheney family actually served in the military defending this country or does your whole family just leach off of patriotic Americans.? Because Liz, you could have served in the military and you chose not to because like your Daddy, you had better things to do.

  54. radiofreewill says:

    Imvho, BabyDick is proof-on-display that Daddy has never – never – expressed a shred of doubt or regret or remorse for what he’s done.

    And let’s not forget what he’s done: He Tortured al-Libi into falsely confessing that Al-Qaeda was in Iraq, and Used Those Lies to send Our Troops, and Our Global Prestige and Honor, into harm’s way in an Un-Just War.

    He still Believes he’s right – and he Knows that Obama and All of US are wrong.

    So, BabyDick is frantically telling everyone who will listen that, “It’s true! Daddy is still right! All of You Just Can’t See It!”

    Beliefs over Facts – it runs in the family.

  55. BayStateLibrul says:

    Typical military thinking:
    Re: Fort Campbell which leads the Army in suicides

    “General Townsend told more than 4,000 soldiers yesterday
    morning that the suicides must stop.”

    As if a fucking edict will prevent the nightmares.
    Let’s declare a loss, and bring our troops home.

    • Quebecois says:

      “General Townsend told more than 4,000 soldiers yesterday
      morning that the suicides must stop.”

      Or he’ll kill you all…

      • wavpeac says:

        Suicide prevention is one of my “special interests”.

        I really like the concept of invalidation to help explain why these soldiers get so suicidal. It fits the military scenario so well. When a person’s personal experience is invalidated they lose touch with reality. They lose a connection to truth, and to grounding. Emotion mind takes over without an attachment to a greater truth. Tunnel vision, hopelessness.

        These folks joined the military under the premise that they would be willing to risk life and limb, for the sake of the morals, and values of this country. They believed that this sacrifice was worthy of the job before them.

        First of all, what is your life and limb really worth? How can that ever be validated?

        Secondly, the values that would give firm foundation for a soldier to be willing to take those risks…are not there. These soldiers have witnessed first hand (some more than others) that our reason for going to war was not valid. That our values, and laws are not being upheld.

        This situation is extremely invalidating.

        What are your life and limbs worth? Not to mention the sacrifice your spouse and children are making? Does that risk stand up to a pack of lies. There is no deeper betrayal than this.

        How do you help them get to base line? What’s the truth these folks have to face? Absolutely demoralizing.

        These people are going to need skills to cope with this level of demoralization. It won’t be “just ptsd”, there will complex ptsd and shift in whole personalities. The military has a self selecting quality to it to begin with…and then add to that, the completely invalid concepts behind this war, and the human brain has a humongous task ahead.

        • TheraP says:

          An identity crisis is what it sets up, to put it another way. Very well explained. I totally agree.

    • Mary says:

      This is in my neck of the woods and people by and large think maybe more than some idiot saying “stop it” might be required.

  56. klynn says:

    You want to argue that last point in court, BabyDick? Because I sure do think that PapaDick and Mitchell’s contractors are torturers.

    You know what to write to start a good post party!

  57. Palli says:

    Yes- the brave men and women involved with the Torure program should be rewarded and admired…and I want them to live right next door to me and babysit my children!

  58. wavpeac says:

    EW hope you had a great time and that you rest. This site is such a beacon of light for so many of us.

    I say let’s call him a torturer as often and we can…that IS one way to catch a perp…provoke him.

    Dick Cheney is a torturer…he advocated torture in violation of our laws.

    I actually think this is a great response to admonition. It forces her to prove her point, crying libel over and over again only makes her whole argument look weak.

    Keep it up!! That’s not a case he can win…and no lawyer would let him touch it…And just like when Kerry refused to fight back against the swift boaters…it made him look guilty.

  59. wavpeac says:

    yes, and if we are not careful a very large number of them made replace their former identity with the label “disabled” or “wounded” or “addict”.

    The reason for the war matters in regard to the consequences to society.

    We are all going to pay for bush’s crime, for many years to come.

  60. Mary says:

    107 – Not that it was a serious offer, but the defamation is actionable by an estate as long as the person was defamed while they were still alive. The deceased person aspect has to do with the time of the statements.

  61. plunger says:

    Oh, please, bring it on…

    Cheney is alleged to be directly responsible for 9/11, war crimes (as admitted on Larry King Live), insider trading, torture, forgery, fraud, terrorism under the USA Patriot Act, racketeering under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations act (RICO), extortion, assassination, arson, bribery, blackmail, conspiracy, and treason.

    Let’s all meet in court…please.

    But first, you’d better read through everything here, and here, because I’ve got the goods on the old man, and discovery’s a bitch.

    Let’s see how well GHW Bush, Dov Zakheim, Kobi Alexander, Michael Chertoff, David Rockefeller, Myrav & David Wurmser, Paul Wolfowitz, Michael Ledeen, Joe Lieberman, Condi Rice, Buzzy Krongard, Jeb Bush, Ahmad Chalabi, Rudy Guiliani, Governor Pataki, Ronald Lauder, George Tenent, Harold Rhode, Ari Fleischer, Bill Kristol, Karl Rove, Richard Pearl, Douglas Feith, Mel Sembler, Paul Bremmer, Scooter Libby, Mary Matlin, Donald Rumsfeld, Alan Greenspan and Henry Kissinger hold up under oath.

  62. plunger says:

    Halliburton’s suit against Cheney should be for the acquisition of Dresser Industries when he has still CEO of HAL. He knew for a fact that Dresser was about to be hit with class action lawsuits related to Asbestos, yet Cheney willingly took the Dresser liability off the hands of the Bush Crime Family and placed it squarely on the backs of HAL share holders.

    Once the lawsuits hit, HAL’s stock got creamed, and you can bet your ass that Cheney had a surrogate shorting the stock all the way down on his behalf.

    All Cheney had to do thereafter was get elected (with Bush as the Puppet President) – and ensure that 9/11 occurred so that he could designate HAL and its subsidiaries as the sole private support service for the troops he knew he’d be sending to the Middle East.

    Dresser made Asbestos, and the liability law suits were going to wipe them out. Cheney took one for the team when he acquired Dresser and all its asbestos liability claims (HAL was punished in the stock market)…the biggest of which was the WORLD TRADE CENTER, PACKED FULL OF ASBESTOS – a $15 billion albatross that the Port Authority was hard pressed to get rid of.

    When the Port Authority unloaded the buildings onto Silverstein, the fix was already in. Cheney literally ran the entire operation on 9/11 (as witnessed by Mineta) and used Dov Zakheim’s SYSPLAN technology to guide the CONVERTED FUEL TANKERS to their targets (remember the huge fireball that exploded OUTSIDE the building?).

    It was Cheney who instructed Christine Todd Whitman to lie about the levels of asbestos at ground zero, because he didn’t want people to make the connection that the entire operation was simply arson on a grand scale, which eliminated a $15 billion liability from Halliburton’s books.

    Does it get any more obvious than this? GW included the issue in his State of the Union speech in 2005:

    “To make our economy stronger and more competitive, America must reward, not punish, the efforts and dreams of entrepreneurs. Small business is the path of advancement, especially for women and minorities, so we must free small businesses from needless regulation and protect honest job-creators from junk lawsuits. (Applause.) Justice is distorted, and our economy is held back by irresponsible class-actions and frivolous asbestos claims — and I urge Congress to pass legal reforms this year.”

  63. Mary says:

    BTW – Greg Sergeant has a piece up that Levin has seen the Cheney “secret docs” and they don’t jive with Cheney’s statements.

    There’s a link to a piece and video of Levin at TPM too
    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo…..orture.php

    Levin’s statements were at a dinner for the Foreign Policy Association.

    Levin said: “But those classified documents say nothing about the numbers of lives saved, nor do the documents connect acquisition of valuable intelligence to the use of abusive techniques. I hope that the documents are declassified, so that people can judge for themselves what is fact, and what is fiction.”

  64. dosido says:

    Seeing is believing. Verify everything.

    if any suspected US war criminals’ health suddenly deteriorated, I’d want the families to show the world, like they did when Saddam’s sons’ bodies were found to prove they were dead.

Comments are closed.