Angry Mom: I See Dead Children

I see dead children.

There is no way to reconcile what the Trump administration has done — seizing children from their parents, some so young they are still breastfeeding — and the facilities they’ve established to house them without coming to the conclusion there are dead children.

@Asher_Wolf explains the situation in this Twitter thread, beginning with this tweet:

Only people who’ve never had or cared for infants and children would not know this already. If you are a parent you know this; you’ve already had to keep a child cool, calm, hydrated which can be challenging while traveling even under the best conditions.

The circumstances which drove these refugees to the border for asylum placed these children under enormous stress, unrelieved by travel across Central America and Mexico, worsened by heat across the southwest. Add the stress of interception and detention by Border Patrol on top of separation from parents — these children and babies are extremely vulnerable.

Stuff them in cages inside buildings not built to specifications for human occupation, or warehouse them in goddamned tents in unrelenting summer heat, with who knows how many qualified personnel to care for them.

There are reports some children have not received adequate food. Have they received enough water and other fluids? If they can’t feed themselves, have personnel offered the infants and toddlers enough bottles?

Looking at the best infant and child mortality rates in other countries, there would be several deaths. This is the U.S., though, which is the worst among the top 20 wealthiest countries. Looking at the recent history of refugees fleeing Syria and other parts of the middle east for EU states, there are likely more deaths than normal. We must face this truth and begin to account for all the children, alive or dead.

But so far no facilities with infants, toddlers, and preschoolers have been opened to members of Congress or journalists. Only boys have been seen on camera. Where are the girls? Where are the children under five years of age?

Journalists have asked where they are.

REPORTER: A couple of questions. One, why is the government only releasing images of the boys being held? Where are the girls? Where are the young toddlers?

NIELSEN: I don’t know. I’m not familiar with those particular images so I would have —

REPORTER: Do you know where they are? Do you know where the girls are? Do you know where the young toddlers are?

NIELSEN: We have children in D.H.S. care both, but as you know, most of the children after 72 hours are transferred to H.H.S. So I don’t know what pictures you’re referencing but I would have to refer you to H.H.S.

REPORTER: We’ve seen images of boys but we just haven’t seen any of the girls, any of the young toddlers and you’re saying they are being well cared for. So how could you make that claim if you don’t know where they are?

NIELSEN: It is not that I don’t know where they are. I’m saying that the vast majority of children are held by Health and Human Services. We transfer them after 72 hours.

 I don’t know what pictures you’re speaking about. But perhaps they’re —

REPORTER: Pictures have been released to the public, they’ve been aired all over national television.

NIELSEN: O.K., by D.H.S. or H.H.S.?

REPORTER: By [inaudible] .H.S.

NIELSEN: So let’s find out from H.H.S. I don’t think there is anything other than [cross talk] the pictures —

REPORTER: [cross talk] released by your department. I mean, they’ve have been aired all over national television throughout the day, the kids being held in the cages. We’ve only seen the boys.

NIELSEN: I will, I will look into that. I’m not aware that there’s another picture. Yes.

That DHS Secretary Nielsen can’t offer a coherent answer when asked is ridiculous and absolutely unacceptable.

That the entire administration cannot offer a consistent response to any questions is doubly so.

None of this assures me they aren’t hiding something behind all this prevarication. At this point the lack of a unified response to questions is deliberate; they’ve had ample time to get their shit together. The inconsistency itself might be a means to create a smoke screen, forcing journalists, Congress, and the public to track and compare their answers rather than storm the facilities and get the truth.

Right now, on the face of it, this administration is hiding children’s bodies, alive and possibly dead.

I don’t care about Trump’s bullshit kabuki gesture that he’ll sign something about the families separation policy. I don’t care who they point to within the administration to blame for this willful humanitarian disaster, this ethnic cleansing, this genocide waiting full disclosure, though the buck ultimately stops at the desk in the Oval Office. Until they show us otherwise and account for every single tiny human being which they have taken and for whom they are acting in parents’ or guardians’ stead, I see dead children.

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146 replies
  1. SirLurksAlot says:

    somehow, I think the governator of texass will prevent the children’s bodies from washing up on the shores of padre isle in bright red t-shirts.

    .

    to have terrible optics first requires both journalistic access and an optical recording device.

  2. Mary McCurnin says:

    This is an administration that has purposely destroyed the structure of the federal government. There is no one in charge. It may be that they don’t have the ability to keep the records on the children they have in concentration camps. Of course, this is what they wanted. Chaos kills and the Trump administration was founded on cruelty and mayhem. For Trump this is just a variation of a game/talent contest.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      Agreed.  Chaos is what follows Trump like bad breath follows eating a basket of onions.  Trump defines the inevitable as if it were a talent.  Chaos and vicious cruelty are his briar patch.

      • posaune says:

        I believe the chaos Trump consistently creates reflects his own internal state of mind — he wants to externalize the chaos to embody it, make it concrete, and then step back a bit while feeling powerful (and safer while others enact his state of mind).   The tragic piece of this is that he is surrounded by such evil people like Miller and Bannon, who only serve to feed Trump’s vortex of chaos.

  3. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Absolutely agree.  Trump trots out, “I’ll sign, I’ll sign!” in order to hold off the townsfolk mob, as if he were the sheriff played by Cleavon Little in Blazing Saddles.  He’s the one holding himself hostage.

    More importantly, Trump does not say what he’ll sign or how it would replace the mess he created.  He is being advised by the same people who came up with this mess.  So, the odds are not good its replacement regime will be better.  It will differentenough to divert attention, but not better.  And it will require opponents to retool, wasting further resources without improving anything anywhere in America.

    For Steve Miller and his patrons, it’s a war of attrition.  He plans to win it, in part, because exhausting the other side while riling the base (cheaper than actually giving it anything) is entirely the point.

    • Bob Conyers says:

      This time they failed to coordinate with the congressional GOP in order to have a bill ready to go to undo their hostage taking.

      Next time they take hostages, they’ll have their list of demands ready to go in the House and Senate. And the media will talk about there being blame on both sides, and demand why the Democrats won’t meet the GOP halfway to free the hostages from their cages.

    • DrFunguy says:

      Part of what he signed, per Charles P. Pierce:
      “The Secretary of Defense shall take all legally available measures to provide to the Secretary, upon request, any existing facilities available for the housing and care of alien families, and shall construct such facilities if necessary and consistent with law. The Secretary, to the extent permitted by law, shall be responsible for reimbursement for the use of these facilities.”

      Death camps for cuties?

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        Typically poor writing. Adds nothing new, pretends to solve a problem Trump generated in the first place, which didn’t require a new EO.

        So SecDef is asked to share some of the acreage of his many bases in the SW, if he wants to and can under existing law.  As usual, the Trump process looks like a fraternity house floor on Sunday morning.

        DHS, for example, is supposed to “reimburse” SecDef, but only for “the use of these facilities”. That puts the building, the access roads, and other unidentified items on the DoD budget.

        And why would SecDef front the money without an assurance of reimbursement, regardless of the cash pile SecDef might be sitting on – most of which is already allocated.

        All that has to be worked out between DoD, DHS, OMB, et al., plus the inevitable outside contractors.  New facilities, utilities and access ways have to be constructed, and protocols for their use and access have to be formulated before any new resources become available.

        People will be waiting a long time before anything changes.  But that was the point.  The cruelty will continue until further notice.  And to make his base feel better, the people at issue here are “alien families.”  Mulder…Mulder…where’s Scully?

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          Correction.  The SecDef facilities at issue here are not confined to the American SW.  They could be anywhere the SecDef has facilities, which is the whole globe.

        • Avattoir says:

          First they arrested immigrant families, broke them up, disposed of the children separately, sent the little girls and babies in particular far far away, while claiming This is not what’s happening or if it is it’s not new or only Congress can stop it or I just used my signature to stop doing these things that didn’t exist aren’t news which only Congress can stop, even tho the words in the piece of paper I signed don’t say we’re doing these things or they’re new or only Congress can stop them or what if anything NOW new to the not new things that’re not happening will be done to stop them (if they existed) from just continuing tomorrow, no different from today.

          But HEY! Not Just The Times But Even The Post are acting as if something stopped, or changed, or are being fixed, or something something, today.

          It’s SUMMERTIME: time for fun times at camp for all the kiddies.

          This will, of course, all end well and no one will ever get sick, or old, or die.

  4. greengiant says:

    There are already known deaths from mistreatment of adults.

    How to deal with these monsters. Two steps forward to their hell and one step back. Trump will sign order banning separation of families, fine print to follow, maybe after the NK private talk transcript comes out. https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/gop-leaders-voice-hope-that-bill-addressing-family-separations-will-pass-thursday/2018/06/20/cc79db9a-7480-11e8-b4b7-308400242c2e_story.html

    Sessions denying asylum to victims of gang violence, domestic abuse, and the lack of facilities private concentration camps predicts that they will just turn all asylum seekers back at the border now because no room to keep them together instead of allowing a few hundred a day in.

    The GOP and the administration from inauguration day and before are very clear. They want to deport 11 million people, 8 million who are in the work force. Human rights violations to be ignored. Despite this lame walk back from Trump GOP now forever stands as the party of child abusers and murderers.

  5. Pete says:

    Thanks for posting this.  My wife and I have raised three and our daughter is now raising our two granddaughters who are 2 and 4.  In the best of situations simply weird things happen to infants and youngsters – their immune systems are developing much less adaptation to the physical and psychological environment.  Bad reaction to improper formula and even food. There are those here that know more than me of this.

    A daily briefing needs to be demanded by the press and others that includes a gross accounting of the movement, age, sex, etc of each child be reported in gross numbers.  How is the connection between separated family members being maintained.  What is the process for re-uniting families.  And I’d add the briefing to include how many are healthy and how they are being cared for – and yes how many are critically ill or have died.

  6. earlofhuntingdon says:

    As you say, the physical and emotional stress levels will be off the charts.  The younger the child, the more permanent and disabling the dysfunction.  The stress and dysfunction spread: siblings, parents, friends, caregivers.  Thousands become tens of thousands.  All by design.  What’s the civil analogue of war crime?

    • posaune says:

      Absolutely correct on the expanding impact of this trauma to tens of thousands.   And that doesn’t take into account the epi-genetic effects, i.e., the “trauma gene.”  Discovered at the University of Wisconsin (Madison) in November 2015, mutation in neurogenesis occurs with an individual’s experience of trauma,  genetically replicated and passed onto children as a permanent part of the child’s genetic sequence, then to the grandchildren, etc.

      My adoptive son has this gene (C677T) and to our geneticist’s shock, he carries it homozygous (from both biological parents).   It is correlated with early-onset cardiac insufficiency, Parkison’s disease, early-onset dementia and some forms of  psychiatric disorders.

      It can be treated (somewhat expensively) but the treatment meds must be taken daily, for life.   The medications (for my son, a custom compound) have been effective.  If meds are consistently taken, it is possible to mediate the transmission of the gene to children, but both parents must be tested and/or diagnosed.

      I cannot help but weep for all those thousands of children, the external, internal, emotional and genetic damage that is inflicted on them, their families, and their future generations.

      • cat herder says:

        And that’s intentional. Or at least they don’t see it as a negative, so they see no reason to go out of their way to avoid it. They need the immigrants to be broken people, and the vast majority of them currently and historically, from wherever, have been happy and productive and vibrant – and that drives the Nazis absolutely mad. They need them to be scared, and isolated, and scurrying in the shadows. Then they can be really dealt with like they’ve been saying all along. This is not new, it’s happened before.

  7. Trip says:

    Rayne! I was just asking about you.

    Good piece, nothing to add. I get (literally) a pain deep in my gut when I watch coverage of this. The crying kids audio was killer. It’s visceral and I’m not a parent. How can anyone who is support this?

    • Rayne says:

      I can’t listen to the recording. I know already what it will sound like and what it will do to me physically, mentally, spiritually. But hearing the voices of those children in torment fools us into thinking rescue for them is possible. There are voices which surely will never be heard from again. It’s those missing voices which truly haunt me.

      • Chetan Murthy says:

        Don’t listen to it.  Don’t listen to it.  I listened to it by accident when clicking-thru on an Ari Melber vid at Crooks&Liars.  It’ll fuck you up.  Maybe that’s a necessary price.  But …. I don’t know: something about those voices has knocked the wind out of me.

  8. Trip says:

    Michael Cohen:

    “As the son of a Polish holocaust survivor, the images and sounds of this family separation policy is heart wrenching,” Cohen wrote. “While I strongly support measures that will secure our porous borders, children should never be used as bargaining chips.”

    • jayedcoins says:

      I call bullshit on Mike. Him saying this is him using these kids (tangentially) as a bargaining chip. He thinks there’s an angle here that helps him. His track record can’t lead us to any other conclusion.

      • Trip says:

        Maybe. Maybe he’s yanking Trump’s chain. Maybe he actually has some feelings, who knows?  From what people have said about him, he at least loves his own kids. I don’t believe that is true about Trump. They are only good as extensions of himself, what they can do for him, or how they make him look, but likely not valued as separate  individuals. I don’t think Trump knows love or compassion. I don’t know enough about Cohen to come to any conclusions.

        • Eutectic says:

          As much as I hate Michael Cohen there’s a difference between white collar, financial, legal, political type crimes, of which he’s committed many and crimes involving the abuse of children (and/or people) which involves being truly psychopathic.

          I’d like to hope that Michael Cohen, while being a scumbag, actually cares about children.

          That’s where Trump crossed the line. Money laundering, colluding with Russians to win an election, lying about porn stars, all that can be waved away as a certain type of crime not involving violence.

          But hurting children….man….hurting children takes a certain kind of person.

        • Dev Null says:

          functional definition of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

          This seems shallow to me, but it’s a starting point.

          Hmm, link seems to be down. If it’s still down tomorrow I’ll repost from web archives.

  9. readerOfTeaLeaves says:

    Rayne: you see what I see.

    Every person that I have talked to this week is emotionally on edge, exhausted, furious, and absolutely shocked.  Several simply can no longer hear or see news; it’s too raw. It’s too visceral.

    And some of those people that I’ve heard are evangelicals.  When Jeff Sessions used the Bible to sanctify this mess, he really, really stepped in it.  People can forgive a whole lot, but they don’t forgive ripping preschoolers from their parents, nor the deaths of innocents.

    Meanwhile, Kelly Anne Conway, Nielson, and the other Trumpolini’s seem to believe that the pictures are to blame; the audio tapes are to blame.  Which is probably what Goebbels would have said in this situation.

    • posaune says:

      I’ve never seen such angry, aggressive driving as I did today in DC & environs.  It was unimaginable!  Cutting in, cutting off, honking — even people in a Prius, mini-Cooper, or Smartcar.   People are so mad, and it feels likes it’s coming to the point of breaking.

    • posaune says:

      Starting in 1942, Himmler directed the General Government’s plan to kidnap “racially valuable” Polish children for Aryanization under the Lebensborn project.   The children age 4-12 were taken primarily from Silesia (western Poland), placed in German homes (ideally SS officer homes) and camps.   Over 200,000 Polish children ended up in Germany, after the “selections,” which sent the remaining children to the ghetto (Lodz).   After the war, only 15-20% were returned to Poland or a relative.   The few identified and tracked were traumatized for life.

    • Robert says:

      Sessions’ biblical justification opens up a logical can of worms. One of the favorite arguments used by the gun lobby is that an armed populace is necessary to ensure that a tyrannical government can be overthrown. The very same argument could be used to rule out that option.

    • Dev Null says:

      Most surprising to me is Huckabee Sanders… it will not have escaped anyone’s attention that SHS is avoiding reporters.

      Whatever she expected when she took the job, it’s an easy guess that she wasn’t expecting this.

      Which seems telling to me … I keep hearing that there is nothing Трамп can do to turn off his supporters… seems like SHS is turned off.

      Or at least seeing personal consequences that she doesn’t feel she signed up for.

  10. klynn says:

    We should ask for help from UNICEF in order to guarantee not one child is trafficked. Or at least have a visable organization suggest it. The response would be telling.

  11. Anne says:

    @Rayne, perfect post.  I listened to the tape, it’s a horror.

    What are the chances the MSM will win this round, or even step up, and NOT let the administration turn this into an issue of legislation?

    This system must be a magnet for every sexual predator out there to submit a resume for the next job opening.

    I am distraught.

    • cat herder says:

      Six months from now there will be some official behind a podium saying, “Well if those kids didn’t want to be raped, they should have thought about that before they broke the law.” Press will report it as some variation on the “Opinions Differ…” theme.

  12. Rugger9 says:

    Apparently SHS has enough of a soul to defer lying for Kaiser Quisling on this topic.  Who knew?  It also appears that the alleged “caving” on the Democratic bill was more palace kabuki.  KQ wants his wall at 25 B$ and has threatened a government shutdown.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/06/sarah-sanders-tired-defending-trump-stephen-millers-gloating-child-jails-infuriates-west-wing-staff/

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/06/trump-signs-order-temporarily-ending-family-separation-policy-days-falsely-blaming-democrats/  Note that the palace will continue its policy.

    Cue the “troubled and concerned” GOP response to palace overreach.  Note they are still proceeding with environmental destruction and other core activities while outrage is still boiling (rightly) on this topic.  However, I have not heard of any actual action from Pence (not even a peep from such a prominent “Christian”) or any of the GOP  government officeholders on any level (note no names are in the piece).

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/06/gop-leaders-livid-trump-turned-republican-party-party-family-separation-report/

    Indeed, Liz Cheney gaveled down on having the kids be heard, as if there was any more evidence needed to show her vileness that is a GOP feature, not a bug.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/06/dems-bring-migrant-kids-house-floor-protest-family-separation-shouted-gop-decorum-breach/

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/trump-admin-no-surprise-lawmaker-visits-to-child-detention-centers-no-talking-to-kids

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/6/20/1773783/-Is-this-where-the-girls-are-Being-spirited-away-literally-under-cover-in-the-dead-of-night

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/6/20/1773867/-Court-documents-claim-that-immigrant-children-are-being-forcibly-injected-with-psychiatric-drugs

    Lastly, this came up in Prime Minister’s Questions by the SNP (~21 minute mark) asking whether PMTM is still willing to invite Kaiser Quisling.  She will still invite him for “serious questioning”, since as Blackford noted, the UK also has an indefinite detention policy of immigrants.

  13. Rugger9 says:

    I had attempted to post a series of links to GOP peccadillos, and am getting blocked from doing so by the admin here.  It’s kind of offensive to censor content that is neither trolling nor dishonest.

    • Rayne says:

      It’s a built-in security measure meant to ensure comments with a lot of links are screened; spammers commonly attempt to weasel by with link-rich comments. It’s not personal. If you share more than a couple of links at any time it’s possible a comment may go to moderation for this reason; we will do our best to free it as soon as possible. Your patience is appreciated as is your understanding that websites allowing comments are under a constant barrage of attacks from spammers.

      p.s. I have to free my own comments when they contain numerous links. Again, IT’S NOT PERSONAL.

  14. TheraP says:

    These detention centers are effective Black Sites.  I say that because it’s unclear where they all are and trying to get in and assess them is a black hole.  Every single site should be made public and routinely visited (and evaluated) by Red Cross, UN and other agencies.  There has got to be total transparency.  That’s the bottom line here.  Because no matter what Trump has signed or said, it is absolutely necessary that there be outside, independent, ongoing evaluations here.  (I want airtight, unannounced visits!)

    Next:  How soon will these families be reunited?  These children should not have to spend one more day isolated from their parents.  And the US owes every traumatized child adequate therapy and mitigation of the harm already done to them.

    I hope the public is energized and alarmed enough to keep the pressure on.  It’s a MUST.

  15. alfred venison says:

    grateful lurker here: in all the mayhem & malice this has been a very heartening thread to read.  thankyou all for being sane & articulate & vocal.  -regards, a.v.

  16. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Trump has ended nothing.  His policy stands, it is just harder to see.  This EO is about optics.  Change, if it happens, is months away and we don’t know what it will look like.  Pity no one running a newspaper seems to know that.

    • Trip says:

      Adolfo Flores‏Verified account @aflores

      The Department of Health and Human Services said the children who have already been separated will not be reunited with their parents. “For the minors currently in the unaccompanied alien children program, the sponsorship process will proceed as usual”

      Saagar Enjeti‏Verified account @esaagar

      Lawyers I’ve spoken to say @POTUS exec order is a total disaster. 1/ it’s vaguely worded and extremely open to “criminal” interpretation 2. Authorities have few facilities atm to detain whole families 3. There’s no reason to believe 9th circuit judge won’t immediately strike down
      https://twitter.com/esaagar/status/1009559208273022977

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      I agree, this is a continuing disaster. But the MSM has already given Trump credit for having fixed it, in exchange for a little political theater.

      Unlike when Trump originated this policy, this time Trump had a dog and pony show and signed an EO.  The NYT and Guardian are giving him props for something he hasn’t done yet.  Shame on them.

      In a normal environment, when a major policy change happens, agency heads conform their new and recent actions to it, because for the chance want of a day or month, circumstances would have different.  San Francisco, for example, is seeking to void thousands of prior cannabis-related convictions because they would run afoul of its new policy.

      The tell that the Trump administration hasn’t changed its policy at all is that it is undoing nothing.  Prior separations will continue down the chaotic path they started on.  And little will change for some time.

      That’s because Trump’s EO, for example, cleverly requires DHS to coordinate with DoD – a massive bureaucracy that changes direction slowly and reluctantly – to provide new resources meant to implement this supposed new policy.

      Equally clever, the EO provides no money, no process or direction for how to do what it proclaims, no process to resolve inevitable conflicts, no sense of urgency.

      It is safe to say that this EO was crafted towards delaying change rather than to effect it.  The MSM’s credulous coverage enables that delay and the continuing human carnage it will generate.

      • Bob Conyers says:

        The good news is that I think there are unusually high odds that the press will figure this out faster than usual. The bad news is that I would still put the odds well below 50-50, maybe one in three, and the turnaround time will take at least a week, if it happens at all.

        I have a slight glimmer of hope when David Folkenflick of NPR openly rejected NPR policy and and said Nielsen’s lies were lies. But I know that it won’t have any effect overall -NPR will still be following the official line of the supposed liberal media that Trump has solved the crisis.

        https://www.npr.org/2018/06/20/621876079/when-the-white-house-cant-be-believed

        • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

          Josh Marshall at TalkingPointsMemo already put up why and how this EO is a sham set up to blame judges.  The legal beagles who yammer on cable will have a lot of heavy lifting to educate the public, but I believe that a whole lot of people are genuinely interested, and also deeply suspicious of Trump.  They need to understand the crap that he’s pulling, and it will only confirm that he is not trustworthy.

          But Sessions trying to pawn this off as a legal move, as Biblically approved… it’s breathtaking.  Maybe I have too many Madonna and Child images in my world, but at the heart of my Catholic childhood was the madonna.  I’ve been heartened to see how many Catholic priests and religious leaders have weighed in; that’s the silver lining.

          If you want to deepen the irony, watch the new Beyonce-JayZ music video “Apesh!t”, shot in the Louvre among imagery of madonnas with infants. What a world…!

          • Trip says:

            In a secular society, where there is supposed to be separation of church and state, it’s absurd and outrageous that the bible is being used for policy/legislative purpose or rationale.

            • Dev Null says:

              Look at the bright side: Трамп and Sessions are leading the evangelical / fundie community to discredit themselves.

              Yeah, I know: small comfort.

              • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

                I actually find it compelling to watch: the evangelicals that I’m in contact with seem to regard Sessions’ use of the Bible as a kind of ‘blasphemy’ (if I’m hearing astutely); as a terrible misuse of scripture.  This is surely having some strange effect; these same evangelicals voted Trump because they simply could not stomach Hillary, and they are staunchly anti-abortion.

                And I have not yet had a chance to talk with any of my Latino, Eastern Washington contacts, for whom the word ‘familia’ has a very rich, complex meaning.  Trump and Sessions really, really stepped in it.

                • Dev Null says:

                  I don’t know any dyed-in-the-wool-of-the-Lamb Talibangelicals, but I’ve seen claims in multiple places that few of the forced-birther advocacy groups have come out against the Трамп Admin’s family separation policy. IIRC the Susan B. Anthony List was mentioned as having said nothing.

                  I have no contacts within the evangelical community, so caveat emptor.

                • Dev Null says:

                  Perhaps there’s a divergence between the evangelicals on the ground and fortced-birther advocacy organizations. TPM has this up this morning:

                  Even as many religious organizations, from liberal to conservative, denounced the Trump administration’s policy of separating immigrant families at the U.S.-Mexico border, some major advocacy groups that depict themselves as “pro-family” declined to join in the criticism.

                  Two of the most influential anti-abortion groups in the U.S. — the National Right to Life Committee and the Susan B. Anthony List — said their focus on abortion is so intense that they avoid wading into other issues.

                  “We refrain from public comment on immigration and many other topics, including other policies that impact families,” said the SBA List’s president, Marjorie Dannenfelser.

                  David O’Steen, executive director of National Right to Life, said the organization has its hands full “trying to stop the killing of babies.”

                  “There are many policies on which we have no stand, for or against,” O’Steen said. “We’re not on either side of this issue.”

                  Because, you know, they can’t walk and chew gum at the same time.

                  More: it’s Planned Parenthood’s fault! Or, or … it’s the PARENTs‘ fault! What were those silly parents thinking?!?

                  Ahead of those new developments, two major Christian-oriented advocacy groups — the Family Research Council and Focus on the Family — had issued statements expressing regret that some immigrant families were being separated. But unlike numerous religious groups, they did not assail the Trump administration.

                  “It’s impossible to feel anything but compassion for these kids, who must be dealing with a great deal of pain and confusion,” wrote Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council. “But the origin of that pain and confusion isn’t U.S. law or the Trump administration. That burden lies with their parents who knowingly put them in this position.”

                  Jim Daly, president of Focus on the Family, wrote in a blog post that the crisis at the border is “a complex consequence of bad policy, unenforced laws and an inability of politicians to make difficult and often unpopular decisions.”

                  In his post, he attacked Planned Parenthood — a leading provider of abortions — for its criticism of the separation policy.

                  “Planned Parenthood permanently separates children from their parents each and every day,” Daly wrote.

                  The responses of these self-described family-values groups contrasted sharply with the harsh criticism of the policy from many religious organizations, including those with generally conservative outlooks.

                  Y’know, one might wonder if these guys are really interested in family welfare at all.

      • Michael says:

        Expecting Confabulist in Chief to show up (briefly) for a photo op: foul-shotting rolls of paper towels … to wailing children. Hey, a similar thing worked in Puerto Rico! That Executive Order sure did the trick.

    • Rayne says:

      Why hello first time visitor! Who would you like to blame it on instead of Russia? The Trump administration, perhaps? Specifically the persons who launched the “zero tolerance” effort on 25 January 2017?

      Edit — 2:01 p.m. EDT 21-JUN-2017 —
      I though I should check through the last eight weeks archives to see if there were any drive-by comments under your email address. What should I find but a number deleted by other moderators for trolling under the same email address but a different name! Technically that’s ‘sockpuppeting‘ and it is not permitted.

      Save the trollery for a different site.

  17. Rusharuse says:

    8pm Duluth
    90,000 people packed in to cheer their beloved President. A country split in half. How long before we turn on each other?

    • Rayne says:

      We’re already there. So far it’s only manifested itself in lone wolves or collaborative bombing attempts like the one in Kansas targeting apartments occupied by immigrants. The question is better posed to the narcissist at the podium; he won’t fall apart tonight because his ego has been stroked, but at some point he will crash. Will he collapse inward on himself? Attempt to flee his discomfort? Or will he lash out and whip up a frenzy like Rwanda in 1994?

      • Rusharuse says:

        The thin veneer of civilization . .

        “the customs and sanctions which lead human beings to behave well constitute a thin veneer over our baser instincts, a veneer which is threatened by destructive and selfish impulses from moment to moment.”

        • Trip says:

          There’s selfishness, to even a minimal degree which, in a way, is a necessity for survival. Then there’s the sadistic inclination toward innocents which is not a basic human characteristic that is universal.

      • greengiant says:

        That is Trump, Putin and Bannon’s plan to destroy America on the bonfire of racial hatred. Important to differentiate between the cult leaders and the cult followers. Their plan is make their followers the “enemy” of the just, don’t fall for it.

      • Palli says:

        I think trump & Fox be doing the Rwanda strategy all along and waiting for the right moment to call out the full force of the NRA.

        When I was younger I imagined this American against American war several times. Somehow, even with as many guns as our country has, we call it a culture war.

    • Sabrina says:

      As Trip mentions, it’s not half and half. It’s a divide and conquer strategy. If he has a solid, say 40% public approval rating, he just needs to subdivide the remaining 60%. He doesn’t need more than half the population since voting is based on representative voting and the EC, and can therefore be affected by low turnout of those against Trump. The most effective ways of doing that are to depress the remaining 60% by having them feel as though their opposition will win and there is no hope at the polls. Despondency does a lot in terms of keeping people from voting. Plus gerrymandering and the usual GOP tricks, as well as the barrage of news and hateful rhetoric on the internet. It’s all culminating in an attempt to demoralize those against Trump, keep them from forming any kind of meaningful opposition, and the constant lies keep everyone in a state of being unsure about what the truth is anymore.

      It is far easier for Trump to deal with his opponents if they are broken up into groups of 5 and 10%- remember, he just needs his base of 35-40% to stick with him, which is why he’s doing everything he can to maintain his cult and energize his base.

      Related to the post topic- I’ve heard that part of this strategy requires relatives to pick these children up. But of course now, under the guise of background checks, these individuals will be carefully screened for not only being in the US illegally, but this policy may extend to “reviewing” their residency applications to ensure there were no “mistakes” that could result it deportation. The children are effectively being used as traps to collect illegal immigrants already in the country, along WITH detaining and deporting their parents (since they’ve invalidated many of the usual claims for asylum). For the Trump admin, this results in are parents being deported without their children, and if they’re lucky, they can even catch some “illegal aliens” (my God, I hate the term alien- such a dehumanizing word!) while they’re at it. Two birds with one stone. You almost have to be in awe of the callousness that this administration has displayed- this tactic is still working on them on many levels, most notably with their base, where they are maintaining their support as outlined above.

    • Trip says:

      It Can Happen Here

      Jarausch offers a fact-filled account of the lives of “Nazi adolescents” a few years younger than Haffner, and of the immense social pressures that led to the rapid growth of the Nazi movement among young people. One of the Nazis’ clever strategies, which they adopted immediately after assuming power, was to increase those pressures by enforcing “an appearance of unanimous support for the Third Reich.” Many Germans were not so much pro-Hitler as anti-anti-Hitler—and their opposition to Hitler’s adversaries aided his rise. Decades afterward, memoirists referred to their “happy times” in the Hitler Youth, focusing not on ideology but on hiking trips, camaraderie, and summer camps….

      Mayer and Haffner speak more directly to those concerned about what makes authoritarianism possible. Of course we can’t be sure whether to believe Mayer’s subjects when they claim ignorance of what Hitler actually did. (Mayer isn’t sure either.) But they are convincing when they say that at the time they were mostly focused on their families, their friends, and their everyday lives. Haffner’s depiction of the “automatic continuation of ordinary life,” possible for so many amid their government’s step-by-step assault on freedom and dignity, is in the same vein….In their different ways, Mayer, Haffner, and Jarausch show how habituation, confusion, distraction, self-interest, fear, rationalization, and a sense of personal powerlessness make terrible things possible. They call attention to the importance of individual actions of conscience both small and large, by people who never make it into the history books. Nearly two centuries ago, James Madison warned: “Is there no virtue among us? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks—no form of government can render us secure.” Haffner offered something like a corollary, which is that the ultimate safeguard against aspiring authoritarians, and wolves of all kinds, lies in individual conscience: in “decisions taken individually and almost unconsciously by the population at large.”

      http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/06/28/hitlers-rise-it-can-happen-here/

      We have the illusion of Trump’s vast popularity.  We also have the supposed ‘left-leaning’ who think they are being admirable in admonishing the anti-Trump demographic. Becoming completely demoralized, feeling powerless, and in the minority is all part of the gaming.
      ***sorry this is so long. It’s actually a smaller portion of the article than it appears.

      • Rayne says:

        Thanks for that. Do watch excerpt length; Fair Use runs about 100-300 words. I will let this one go because the content is difficult to break.

        The illusion of popularity could easily be broken if the public simply did two things: quit watching Fox and stopped using Facebook. These two businesses punch above their weight because they occupy too much broadcast and internet bandwidth. Neither of them have served the common welfare though Fox is required to by FCC’s broadcast licensing mission, and the second has yet to catch a clue.

        Sadly, because Fox’s audience is older and more likely to rely on broadcast- than internet-distributed news content — no thanks to stifled competition in high-speed internet access across much of the US — they won’t unplug from Fox’s glass teat. And Facebook’s near-monopoly on social media also makes it difficult for users to unplug.

        In spite of Fox’s and Facebook’s oversize reach, there is no excuse today for anyone not to know what the truth is. Cameras are ubiquitous with cellphones and drones abound — we can see nearly everything a satellite can see from above, and more from ground level. Our problem is the loss of net neutrality which could block investigative content. We must do more rapidly to develop mesh networks and other ad hoc alternatives if we are to overcome perception of occupation by what is isn’t a plurality let alone a majority.

        • Trip says:

          But then we have this:

          In which the big issue of the day for the NYT is “civility”.

          https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1009764136950157317

          History:
          How media ‘fluff’ helped Hitler rise to power
          Some of the most iconic photos of Adolf Hitler show him at his most intense, eyes alight with frenetic energy as he addresses an audience or salutes a crowd.
          Equally haunting, however, are another set of images that are oft-forgotten: In the years preceding World War II, news outlets from home magazines to the New York Times ran profiles of the Nazi leader that portrayed him as a country gentleman — a man who ate vegetarian, played catch with his dogs and took post-meal strolls outside his mountain estate….“The 1930s marked the rise of celebrity culture, in the era of talking movies, radio and new lifestyle magazines,” Stratigakos said. “People developed a strong desire to know what the private person was like behind the public facade. Hitler’s propagandists took advantage of the new celebrity culture and even helped to shape it.”
          http://www.buffalo.edu/news/releases/2015/08/034.html

          “Liberal” news outlets, like the Times, aren’t necessarily ‘fluffing’, but they are softening the edges with bothside-isms, and playing devil’s advocate for the administration. They have normalized Trump in that they treat him and his policies as a rational side to be heard from (from people like Miller). Then they play cover, not releasing tapes or transcripts, as requested by a white supremacist. They boil it all down to the nations’ problems being about civility (not civil rights). They are on the wrong side side of history now, as they were then.

          Never mind cable news outlets where, again, “liberal” channels offer constant interviews with Trump propaganda mouthpieces, reinforcing it, with meek challenge.

          • Dev Null says:

            Leave it to the Vichy Times to focus on “civility” when the Admin is putting babies in steel cages in concentration camps.

            • Trip says:

              That’s why, even if he might have skeletons of his own, I like that Avenatti has been relentless, playing Trump’s game. Honey badger has no f-ks to give:

              The Crazy Nastyass Honey Badger (original narration by Randall)
              (https)://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

        • Greenhouse says:

          I officially deleted my FB account 6/10. Four more days to go in plotting my course to freedom. If you should decide to do as well, don’t forget to delete all apps or they will still have your info s/p FB profile deletion.

          • Rayne says:

            Never installed that POS on my mobile devices or any app that relied on FB.

            I deleted every single item from my FB account now years ago, one event, one comment, one like and friending at a time.

            And I never used my real name or my real location when I opened the account more than 10 years ago because I didn’t trust it then. Nothing FB has done since then ever changed my initial perception of them as sketchy on privacy and security.

             

      • Fran of the North says:

        Trip,

        Thanks for pointing this out. I generally cringe when Godwin’s law rears it’s ugly head – it tends to drive discussion to the gutter. But the link and sentiments expressed are insightful, prescriptive,and very chilling.

        Drumpf held a rally last night in my state and I can’t help draw parallels between the expressions of the die kleine Leute in cited piece and some of the comments of attendees to last night’s event.

    • Bob Conyers says:

      Maybe 9,000, just to be clear. That’s the maximum capacity of the Duluth arena, and based on previous Trump rallies, they’re not seated to capacity and cameras won’t show the empty top tier seats.

      144 attendees would still be a gross number (ha!), but it’s worth being careful here not to overinflate his drawing power.

  18. Charles says:

    There is a long history of child abduction by right-wing governments, especially in the Americas, Spain, and (with a more explicitly religious flavor) Ireland. I blogged a partial history here,  and additional history specifically on Native Americans is presented by another blogger here.

    Like rape, child abduction is a tool of war.  That is how Trump is using it.

    And I would not be surprised, Rayne, if there are child casualties.

  19. Dev Null says:

    I found this comment at Balloon Juice illuminating. Not sure there’s anything new about the disjoint threads, but “the whole is greater than the sum of the parts” … or so it seems to me.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:

      From the cited piece, an excerpt from that long, insightful comment by Martin (emphasis mine), who says, in part, “this is a situation where all of the incentives are aligned against success.”  He ends with this:

      If someone had come to me with this idea, with me being responsible for implementation, I would advise them to toss out any pretext that there would be a reunification process, and make clear from the outset that this is an orphanage project where reunification is a desirable exception rather than a realistic expectation and construct around that and see if the concept and motivation to pursue it still holds. If nobody did that then they are utterly incompetent and should be fired and go to jail. If they did that, and the policy was pursued anyway, than everyone in the chain should be fired and go to jail.

      In TrumpWorld, they get a promotion and raise, instead of going to the hoosegow.  Accountability will have to start at the top then.  I believe he calls himself Donald J. Trump.

  20. Rusharuse says:

    from Vanity Fair . .
    White House senior policy adviser Stephen Miller has all but become the face of the issue, a development that even supporters of Trump’s “zero-tolerance” position say is damaging the White House. “Stephen actually enjoys seeing those pictures at the border,” an outside White House adviser said. “He’s a twisted guy, the way he was raised and picked on. There’s always been a way he’s gone about this. He’s Waffen-SS.”

  21. Mitch Neher says:

    DrFunguy cited the following from Trump’s EO

    “The Secretary of Defense shall take all legally available measures to provide to the Secretary, upon request, any existing facilities available for the housing and care of alien families, and shall construct such facilities if necessary and consistent with law. The Secretary, to the extent permitted by law, shall be responsible for reimbursement for the use of these facilities.”

    Is there any chance that Trump’s EO making SecDef responsible for family detention also makes family detention centers subject to The Geneva Convention? Can the Red Cross or a Congressman or a Senator now demand visitation at the family detention centers?

  22. Avattoir says:

    These make impossible to repair even just the existing outrage:
    1. Trumpalos never wanted to fix it, don’t now and never will want to.
    2. There’s no indication the admin worked up any
    plan or system whatsoever to even keep track of the separations or track the shattered family members post break-up, let alone restore them.

    One nice thing about living in the Age of Iphones is there’ll be no lack of visuals on mass Trumpalo rallies, from which a New Age Leni Riefenstahl will produce a documentary that will work to prevent this from ever happening again … again.

    • Anne says:

      Regarding #2, a reunification process could use DNA matching, assuming enough trust could be established for already-deported parents, or undocumented parents here, to come forward to find their kids.  At least  siblings could be matched and reunited from the various Black Sites.  (…ugh, I can’t believe that’s a thing)

      We’d have to remove DHS, ICE, and all the other Nazi organizations, and let NGOs and human beings with a soul and a conscience run the program.

      BTW, go Microsoft Empoyees – -https://gizmodo.com/microsoft-employees-pressure-leadership-to-cancel-ice-c-1826965297

      • Rayne says:

        DNA would be a best approach in the absence of other traceable data but there are several problems: it’s not 100% accurate, consent is still required (and who will consent for displaced children?), and it creates a precedent of tracking a population by DNA.

        This humanitarian disaster will have long and deep repercussions for more than a lifetime.

        • Trip says:

          Except: Look at the backlog of DNA testing on rape kits (YEARS, in some cases, decades). They can’t even organize a chain of transport and paper trail connection, can you imagine the clusterfuck of organizing DNA testing, with the additional cost of more hiring, additional equipment, plus the facilities in which to accomplish it? They won’t spend money to improve these people’s lives, but they will enrich the private sector profiting from it.

          • SteveB says:

            Expect Miller to propose bar code tattoos as part of his humane solution to the problem caused by the alien invaders.

            • Dev Null says:

              They’re not sufficiently competent to arrange for that.

              And if adoption is an objective, even a tertiary objective, tattoo-ing would defeat the purpose. (And I’m not even drinking yet…)

          • Rayne says:

            Let’s make sure we’re not conflating state and local failures with regard to processing rape kits and potential federal efforts.

            There are also other unpleasant reasons why rape kit processing rates shouldn’t be compared. Face it: government has been misogynist and reinforced rape culture because it has been and remains male dominated. We can only hope this will change soon. The impetus to track families of alien children may be very different if white nationalists want them out of the country.

            • Trip says:

              State and local failures can be attributed to misogyny ( considering them less significant crimes), but also to inadequate (maybe #s of) testing sites, and slow turnaround.

  23. Trip says:

    Lawsuit against one of the shelters still in operation:
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4525292-420-2-Exhibit-Vol-2-Exs-21-30-Pages-109-73.html

    Written in 2014, (prior to Trump) unaccompanied children at shelter abused, more details in article:

    Federal agency’s shelter oversight raises questions
    This fall, a group of senators called for the U.S. Government Accountability Office to review ORR’s financial oversight of grantees and its ability to accommodate the influx of children. Lawmakers ordered ORR in March 2013 to write regulations to comply with the Prison Rape Elimination Act, to strengthen standards for preventing and punishing abuse. The agency released a copy of the proposed rule on Friday that sets a June deadline for shelters to meet the new guidelines.Olson said he called ORR with questions about Shiloh this summer, and it sent him a letter with basic information. He remains frustrated. “The one thing that comes out over and over is the lack of transparency,” he said. “Tell us what is going on down there.”
    _____________________________
    To be sure, Shiloh takes in challenging cases, including children who arrive from Central America traumatized by their journeys or the violence they witnessed at home….

    Some instances of abuse:

    Staff members made mentally disabled foster girls fight for an after-school snack in 2008, the state found. It put Daystar on probation after a 44-year-old staff member was prosecuted for having sex with a foster girl from California.

    Then a 16-year-old boy died in 2010 after being restrained inside a closet. Yenne’s office took a case against two Daystar staff members to a grand jury, which did not indict them.

    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/article/Federal-agency-s-shelter-oversight-raises-5969617.php

    Kids were also given heavy doses of multiple drugs.

  24. peacerme says:

    A long line indeed: (add a little coaching by Putin, this is all to divide and conquer).

    this incident was put to rest. All false. No truth. I worked in the mental hospital at that time. Docs and nurses believed these kids. The number of deaths surrounding this are beyond suspicious. Including a plane crash involving the prime investigator on his way back from gathering key evidence. A teen girl who was sentenced to 25 years for perjury and a few bad checks, she served 4.5 years. (For perjury!! And recanted).

    .nytimes.com/1988/12/18/us/a-lurid-mysterious-scandal-begins-taking-shape-in-omaha.html

    counterpunch.org/2012/09/10/still-evil-after-all-these-years/

    .washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1990/04/01/omahas-hurricane-of-scandal/f762dad7-c72c-415e-a17c-bd4ece10fa44/

  25. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Trump is misdirecting us.  His EO is not a fix, it is a delaying tactic.  It will not result in better treatment for anyone.

    He is channeling more money into this sink hole, and will tell the voters he has to cut back elsewhere, to MAGA.  More money will flow to DoD contractors, presumably on the usual cost-plus basis, who will build any few facilities on DoD bases.  Nothing about whose budget those end up in.  DoD is apparently allowed to bill DHS for “the use of the facilities,” but given the curious nature of Pentagon accounting, who knows how that “use” will be billed and when.

    Trump doubled down on electioneering last night.  He’s still running against Hillary and will do so through November.  It’s who he hates, attacking her still scores highly in polls.  Trump is still running on a racist, nativist platform. 

    His agencies still have no idea how to do what they’ve been tasked to do. DoJ is overwhelmed.  DoD lawyers will now be trying civil immigration cases on the border.  DHS is overwhelmed.  Chaos reigns.  Standard Trump.  Kids, what kids?

    Meanwhile, Trump floats the idea of merging the Departments of Labor and Education.  More chaos.  Voters will be told it’s all the Democrats fault.  If the Dems don’t start using their best voters louder more often, Trump will be right.

    • SteveB says:

      @Delavegalaw compared Trumps EO to a lulling letter by a fraudster, intent on keeping the con afloat for another go round, which seemed apt to me. Chaos is always an opportunity to these guys, where the first line is to blame the victim or some other guy who used to be in charge; the EO wasn’t part of the original strategy, but hey-ho its just another opportunity to sow chaos shift the blame and maybe score some credit with some gullibles.

      I used to think that Team Trump would fragment under the stress of all the crazy, and there are some signs of dissent in the ranks over this debacle, however what is dispiriting is the number of Trump mouthpieces popping up to cheer him on – so I realise he has an endless supply of assholes who want a piece of his political action and will work towards any and every piece of cynicalcrazy which might appeal to him.

  26. Dev Null says:

    This question has probably been asked and answered multiple times already, but if so I missed the exchange(s).

    Several of us have called baby jails etc a “crime against humanity”. Others have used different descriptions.

    IANAL. I don’t pretend that my description is accurate.

    What is the accurate description?

    I found these two links:

    https://www.justsecurity.org/58269/zero-tolerance-detention-children-torture-international-law/
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/legal-considerations-separating-families-border

    I saw nothing at Balkin’s site.

    I really, *srsly* want these fsckers to pay a price for the lives they have screwed up. And secondarily, for the disrepute they have brought on America.

    I feel soiled by the actions of my country’s government.

    I’m not asking about practicality, at least not primarily. I think I am asking “were they brought up before a criminal court, either federal or international, what crimes would they likely be charged with?”

    (No toolbar, again. Can’t figure out how to get one.)

  27. cfost says:

    Something that really bothers me about this whole immigration topic:

    While Sessions and his protege Miller are continuing their lifelong effort to win an unwinnable argument against the “illegals,” and while we are watching government-sponsored (“of the people, by the people, for the people”) child abuse occurring nationwide in real time, something more sinister operates in the shadows with impunity. But what about those who employ these immigrant people? Farmers, meat packers, warehouses, contractors, etc.

    No jobs, no immigrants. Might still get some asylum seekers, but no flood of job seekers. This has been a sick, dysfunctional relationship since at least WWII. We in the US wink and nod and encourage the cheap and easily controlled newcomers, pretending that we don’t know damn good and well that they came here “illegally,” and then to save face we call them names and treat them like shit. No jobs, no immigrants.

    I suggest that the employers of these immigrants, who are overwhelmingly white, Christian and republican, be put in cages.  Paula White have a problem, or Franklin-son-of-Billy, or Hagee, or any of the evangelicals? Nope. Crickets. Beware of republicans in Christian clothing!

    • cfost says:

      It is dishonest to state, on one hand, that we have full employment and that there is now a need for “guest workers” at places such as Mar a Lago and Bedminster, and, on the other hand, to state that these “guests” are animals and should be treated as such.
      If there is a legitimate shortage of labor, then these people should be treated as people and we should have an honest, open relationship with them, as we would with any other business associate. But if the only shortage is a shortage of dirt cheap and easily controlled slaves, then we should just carry on as we have been.

    • Fran of the North says:

      That would require a serious assessment of the problem, identification of the root causes, and weighing of the options. We can choose to pay legal immigrants and US citizens to perform all of the jobs that ‘illegals’ perform today. It will just come at a higher cost.

      You might pay double to have your lawn or house work done. Fast food will get more expensive. Many ‘self made’ entrepreneurs and business owners will see their business fail without the ability to exploit the powerless for their own ends.

      But that requires biting the hand that feeds. And the end result of that is loss of elections and power.

      Far easier to whip up the base with lies, aspersions and FUD. Then, only die kleine Leute feel the pain. And on the upside, the kleptocracy continues to wield power and pocket the treasures of the state.

  28. earlofhuntingdon says:

    So DoJ will “temporarily suspend” criminal prosecutions for low-level misdemeanor immigration violations because its “zero tolerance” policy overwhelmed its ability to mount any prosecutions on any subject. That’s not a change of policy.  It’s a delay until DoJ can staff up.  I assume that means DoJ will keep would be immigrants and asylum seekers in jail even longer.

    Jefferson Beauregard asked DoD JAG lawyers to come help out at the border, but Jeffy wanted to stick Mattis with the bill.  (All while further militarizing the border.  The DoD assist to DHS regarding housing facilities that Trump’s EO calls for does the same.)

    Given the hardball the Pentagon plays over its budgets, I suspect Jeffy got nuffink from Mattis on that.  Then there’s the standard bureaucratic problem Jeffy might not have thought through: he who pays for shit, controls it.

  29. Dev Null says:

    I’m not sure there’s anything here, but the implication seems to be that the Administration put in place their family separation policy at least party to feed the evangelical adoption industry:

    https://www.facebook.com/emm.pea.1/posts/1989097937800888

    Which could be why most of the forced-birthers have been silent.

    Might as well call it child trafficking.

    No idea who the writer is. Forwarded to me by a generally knowledgeable party, but caveat emptor.

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        It’s about good christianist white people saving little brown people from the hell of living their own lives, in their own cultures, in their own language and family networks.

        Australia for decades used forced adoption to aculturate aboriginal children.  The US did the same for Native Americans, trying to obliterate their culture.  The Carlisle School in Pennsylvania is one example.

        The Brits did it to their own after WWII, shipping children unwanted by the elite (born to the poor, the unwed, or simply orphaned) to places like Australia and Canada.  It took several decades for the government reluctantly and parsimoniously to acknowledge the crimes flowing from its negligent distribution of children often to lives of torment and abuse.  Then there are the Irish Catholic orphan homes run by the Order of the Sacred Heart of Freddy Krueger, where it pays not to drink the well water.

        Trump is resurrecting an ancient evil.  It makes him and Miller and Bannon feel at home.  It also reduces the standing of America in the world, much to Mr. Putin’s delight.  He didn’t invent our frailties, but he loves to make them more destructive so that he can fill the resulting vacuum.

        • Dev Null says:

          Call me naive, but if evidence can be found that “they” (pick your definition of “they”) are trafficking kiddies, the whole house of cards could come tumbling down.

          Especially if either DeVos or Трамп (hey, why choose one when you can have both) are taking a cut …

          ~shakes head to clear it~

          We are truly through the looking glass and into the sewer.

          Back during the Administration of Bush the Lesser, Kevin Drum wrote (sorry, no link, this is from memory) something along the lines that what he really hated about that Admin was that they were soooo bad that he found himself entertaining bizarre conspiracy theories.

          Or as Brad Delong wrote back in 2005,

          The Bush administration is not only worse than you imagine even after taking account of the fact that it is worse than you imagine, it is worse than you can conceivably imagine:

          (Pretty sure Delong adapted that from Haldane or Keynes …)

        • Dev Null says:

          Speaking of Mr. Putin, I just had this completely insane thought. Totally bonkers, so pay no attention.

          But … Magnitsky Act. I wonder what fraction of evangelical adoptions came from Russia prior to the passage of the Magnitsky Act.

    • Dev Null says:

      Another historical link:

      According to these internal documents, the State Department was confident it had discovered systemic nationwide corruption in Vietnam — a network of adoption agency representatives, village officials, orphanage directors, nurses, hospital administrators, police officers, and government officials who were profiting by paying for, defrauding, coercing, or even simply stealing Vietnamese children from their families to sell them to unsuspecting Americans.

      I realize that this sounds bonkers. It sure sounds bonkers to me. And I am sure I speak for everyone here when I say that no one ever would suggest that Трамп Administration policies might be tainted by corruption.

      Odd, though, those kids sent to Bethany Christian Services, an adoption agency funded by Betsy DeVos. Yeah, yeah, they’ll be fostered, not adopted. Unless the kids parents can’t be located, amirite? Unpossible, I know. But work with me here: if they can’t find the parents … what then?

      Surely the lesser evil would be to put the kids up for adoption.

      Pay no attention to that loon Laura Ingraham. It’s just a coincidence. Or perhaps she’s just jumping to the end game.

      • Dev Null says:

        One more, hopefully the last. If it’s true that Трамп is always about projection, then “suck on this” (in the immortal words of The Mustache of Wisdom).

        During a cabinet meeting on Thursday, President Trump sought to blame Democrats for the humanitarian crisis he created with his family separation policy, going so far as to accuse Democrats of “creat[ing] a massive child smuggling industry.”

        “The people are suffering because of the Democrats,” Trump said. “So, we’ve created, and they’ve created, and they’ve let it happen — a massive child smuggling industry. That’s exactly what it has become.”

        Referring to unaccompanied children who cross the border, Trump said, “these alien minors were separated and sent all the way up here alone, but they really came up with coyotes. You know what a coyote is? Not good, these are not-good people.”

        “They were sent up here with human traffickers,” Trump said. “Because the Democrat-supported policies have allowed this to happen.”

        As the writer says, “Trump’s comments are darkly ironic.”

  30. earlofhuntingdon says:

    CBP, to save a little face perhaps and to stick it to average travelers, has set up a checkpoint stopping all southbound traffic in Maine, asking for, “Papers, pleeze.”

    It did the same last week in New Hampshire and picked up a total of five people lacking current paperwork. Lord knows what the average price per head that cost. Mind you, CBP mounts these daily on the freeways two hours either side of San Diego. Hard to get to LA or Phoenix without going through one.

    Like everything else in the Trump administration, it’s not very good value for money. But money isn’t the issue; Trump assumes he can always get more from somebody else whenever he needs it. This is about normalizing the militarization of Amerika, which is predicated, in part, on demonizing little brown people, citizens or not. All to keep us safe, as Dr. Szell might put it.

    • Michael says:

      ACLU of New Hamster :-) reminds us, on its web site, that folks have the right to stfu when stopped by CBP.

      “The CBP told motorists that they were “required” to answer their questions. This is inaccurate. All individuals going through these checkpoints have the right to say absolutely nothing.”

      “CBP officials also told individuals that, if they did not answer questions, they would be indefinitely detained until they agreed to answer. This too is not only a legally inaccurate statement, but it flies in the face of the Fourth Amendment and the cases interpreting it. The refusal to answer questions does not create reasonable suspicion or probable cause to prolong a stop at these checkpoints. If a person refuses to comply and CBP cannot promptly determine the person’s immigration status, CBP must immediately release that person.”
      https://www.aclu-nh.org/en/news/aclu-nhs-statement-woodstock-border-patrol-checkpoint

  31. Bo says:

    The separation of children and families has been going on for hundreds of years. This is not new: Although abhorrent (!).
    In the EU we lost track of 12.000 children it was reported (2-3 years ago). And that is just what we know/read/has been reported. The true picture is far, far worse. What you are seeing in the USA now is the implementation of processes and rules to support a fascist regime. It is fascism with ICE as the SA (Sturmabteilung).
    Being annoyed, angry, irritated, whatever: requires the element of being surprised that this is happening. This is not a surprise: It will become far, far worse pretty soon. These things always escalate.
    You will see the building of internment (concentration) camps, children will die (statistically speaking some have already). The structural implementation of process to root out the non desirable elements.
    The creation of databases and the empowerment of f***ing numb-nut dumb assholes with a sherrifs badge to ‘guard’ the unwanted. And offcourse, the rampart abuse of power against women and children and the structural abuse in the form of rape, torture, imprisonment, slavery and death.
    All this will be expeddited by a terrorist attack or bomb (Gulf of Tonkin for instance).
    The Mexican government should reach out to the U.N. and the International Court in The Hague and sue them for crimes against humanity (kidnapping of children for instance – I am not a lawyer I don’t know). Then under the RICO stature send every ICE employee to jail.
    Your president just became a (war) criminal in my opinion. Not to mention the action with regards to sustaining the war in Yemen and Syria. And it is not Trump alone: it is the number 2,3,4 men in his administration that are the true evils. Hating Trump is pointless: It is the next guy, the ‘anti-Trump’ that will become elected that will be the last of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. You know what to expect from Trump; he is preditable. That’s why they put him there. His motivations are quite transparent. He sure is somebody’s b*tch. And it ain’t the Russians. They just sit back and watch the show (China becoming #1).
    These dramatic scenes and actions keep you occupied so you won’t see what’s coming. It will become far, far worse. The climate change impact will take us by surprise because we didn’t see it coming because Melania wore a jacket with a slogan on it.

  32. J R in WV says:

    The only way to learn what is going on with the female captives and the infant/toddler captives is for some brave member of an administration, like a top prosecuting attorney or governor to work with a high level judge, like the senior state supreme court justice, to obtain a search warrant based upon the information and belief that child abuse of an intolerable and illegal level is being systematically conducted in certain facilities, to wit:

    Facility one, located at:
    managed by DHHR
    listing known or suspected details about this facility
    Facility two, located at:
    managed by contract firm
    listing known or suspected details about this facility
    Etc.

    Then to obtain confidentially the enthusiastic services of a LEO, preferably with SWAT teams and vehicles or aircraft sufficient to make forced entry to all facilities noted above, along with camera crews designated to preserve information as these raids are conducted, so as to minimize panic among the captives and maximize it among the captors. Teams to include medical and psychological teams prepared to take control of the well being of the captors and to preserve evidence of the condition of the captives at the time of their liberation.

    Then to execute forced entry to all the identified facilities while suppressing communications capability from those facilities while control is established over the captors sufficient to put them under arrest for receiving and holding kidnapped and abused children and infants while not advising the proper authorities as required by law.

    Any suspected facilities of the type being planned to be opened and taken into control of the proper authorities should be under complete surveillance during the time while preparations are being made to rescue the children being held captive, and if all such facilities are not to be opened simultaneously, those not scheduled for immediate entry should be under heightened surveillance until they can be taken under control.

    Obviously taking control of all these facilities at once will be a huge challenge, yet doing it a few at a time allows the perpetrators to begin to conceal ongoing crimes and to attack victims being held prisoner. Treating the rescued prisoners, identifying them, associating them with their parents, collecting evidence of crimes committed against them will be a superhuman effort requiring huge teams to be brought together to conduct medical evaluations of all the victims to determine if additional crimes have been committed in addition to the kidnapping and illegal movement.

    Records showing the numbers and ID of the captives and arrivals and departures will have to be carefully collected and evaluated to determine how many children should have been present at each facility, and any discrepancy in the numbers should be investigated for possible illegal transfers of children into different illegal hands.

    Menus and documentary evidence as to the type and amount of food and water each captive was provided and how much of that which was provided was consumed. If there is no evidence of how much food and water was consumed by a specific individual, it mush be assumed the captors did not care how much food intake was going on, that’s evidence of another crime, failing to document food intake indicated they didn’t care if malnutrition was going to be a problem for the captives.

    IANAL nor an I associated with law enforcement, so I have no doubt omitted many necessary tasks — but a search warrant and entry teams are the first thing to organize, those professionals should be able to develop an operational plan intended to rescue the captives and preserve the evidence of their treatment, good and bad. Medical exams of all the captives, postmortems of those not still alive at the time of entry. Yes, we all know that at least a few children in these terrible circumstances may have died under the best and luckiest circumstances, which will not be the kind of circumstances I expect to find.

    Some facilities may be managed properly while others are not. All facilities will have cooperated with the holding of captives after their kidnapping. Some facilities may have captives who have been further abused after being illegally taken from their families. Arrest for every captor in the facilities should be a given, the actual charges in addition to being an accomplice to kidnapping will depend upon the condition of the captives and the documentary, physical, medical, and asurveillance data and interviews with staff, victims and witnesses.

    Without this kind of immediate investigation we will never know what happened to the children being held captive in violation of child care requirements all over the world. We owe it to the parents and families of the captive children AND to the international community to discover what has happened to the captive children in as much detail and with as much certainty as possible, in order to provide evidence sufficient to indict and convict those guilty of misconduct with regard to these children. Including those at the top of management of this whole Cluster Fuck, who allowed this policy change to go forward with virtually no planning to keep these children in good condition and properly identified.

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