Socially Normative Agency And Rights

Index to posts in this series

Michael Tomasello’s book, The Evolution Of Agency, presents a model of the evolution of agency, not cognition, not emotion, not the physique or eating habits of Homo sapiens. It’s packed with references to academic papers and books, but in the end, it has to be understood as a series of hypotheses generated by Tomasello from his own research, and his extensive study in this area.

Any extension of this model, for example, trying to use it to understand our own culture, is mere speculation until it is tested. That’s true no matter how obvious the extrapolation might seem. With that caveat I’ve been thinking about the implications of this model.

Self-awareness

Here’s an example of Tomasello’s understanding of human agency as an individual attribute:

Most of the unique psychological capacities of the human species result, in one way or another, from adaptations geared for participation in either a joint or a collective agency. Through participation in such agencies, humans evolved special skills for (i) mentally coordinating with others in the context of shared activities, leading to perspectival and recursive, and ultimately objective, cognitive representations; and (ii) relating to others cooperatively within those same activities, leading to normative values of the objectively right and wrong ways to do things. Individuals who self-regulate their thoughts and actions using “objective” normative standards are thereby normative agents, very likely characterized by a new form of socially perspectivized consciousness, what we might call self-consciousness. P. 117.

In this picture, we evolved to cooperate. One crucial focus of cooperation is forming a useful picture of reality, one that we can use safely to plan our actions.

Side effects of socially normative agency

Tomasello’s evolutionary history leaves off around perhaps 50,000 or so years ago, when humans lived in small bands, loosely connected in cultural groups. That mode of life continued until about 6,000 years ago, when humans began to live in cities.

In The Dawn Of Everything, David Graeber and David Wengrow look at this history of our ancestors from a different perspective. I really like two of their ideas.

  • “… As soon as we became humans, we started doing human things.” P. 83.
  • “There is an obvious objection to evolutionary models which assume that our strongest social ties are based on close biological kinship: many humans just don’t like their families very much.” P. 279.

Following these points out, most of the rules of cultural normativity must have seemed critical for survival ti early modern humans, even if the connection didn’t seem obvious to a child or an adolescent, or an outsider. But as the millennia pass, some of the norms might have seemed wrong or unnecessary, and oppressive. The young might have been unwilling to put up with the demands of their elders and especially their parents but lacked the ability to change things.

This is the Wikipedia summary of Sigmund Freud’s book Civilization and Its Discontents:

… Freud theorized the fundamental tensions between civilization and the individual; his theory is grounded in the notion that humans have certain characteristic instincts that are immutable. The primary tension originates from an individual attempting to find instinctive freedom, and civilization’s contrary demand for conformity and repression of instincts. Freud states that when any situation that is desired by the pleasure principle is prolonged, it creates a feeling of mild resentment as it clashes with the reality principle.

Primitive instincts—for example, the desire to kill and the insatiable craving for sexual gratification—are harmful to the collective wellbeing of a human community. Laws that prohibit violence, murder, rape and adultery were developed over the course of history as a result of recognition of their harm, implementing severe punishments if their rules are broken. This process, argued Freud, is an inherent quality of civilization that gives rise to perpetual feelings of discontent among individuals, justifying neither the individual nor civilization. Fn omitted.//

We don’t talk about instincts much anymor, and the question of mutability of instincts is open, but I think Freud has a sharp insight here. We all have moments when we feel out of control with rage or grief or hatred or …. We might have fantasies about guillotines for particularly loathsome elites or having sex with a co-worker. But mostly we just get over it and move on.

Tomasello would attribute this to our socially normative agency, and that makes a lot of sense.

Here’s an example used by Tomasello. A hunting party from a band kills an antelope. There are three competing interests. First, the successful hunter needs to eat, and wants to get as much as possible. Second, the hunter has a normative duty to the rest of the hunting party to share. Third, the hunter and the rest of the hunting party have a normative duty to carry the kill back to the rest of the band for disposition as the band decides.

Bands and cultures survive because the hunters bring the food home. But each time, the individuals experience a conflict in that they are unable to satisfy their selfish desires.There must have been cheating. Sometimes an individual or a group must have defected. Defection too has survival value, at times more so than the survival value associated with membership in the band. But that may well have produced an equally unpleasant sensation for many, guilt.

We aren’t so evolved we’ve lost our urge to satisfy our personal desires, or our willingness to satisfy our personal urges if we can or provide for our families even at the expense of the community. Thus the incidence of violence and sexual adventures, and the negative feelings and damage that go with those events.

Rights as limits on the demands of one’s community

In the past several thousand years we humans have lived in large communities, from a few tens of thousands to over a billion. We’ve endured all kinds of governments, from more or less egalitarian consensus-driven groups to totalitarian dystopias. Freud’s insight, and those of Graeber and Wengrow, apply to all of them. There will always be a conflict in the minds of many of us between the demands of society and our personal desires.

The Founders said that the point of government was to protect the rights given to people by the Creator, but they were just as worried about the dangers of government. They said the just powers of the government derived from the consent of the governed, but they were just as worried about the dangers of oppression by the majority. The solution they adopted was government of limited powers and the Bill of Rights.

The hope was to balance the desires of the individual members of society against the need to maintain a community in which everyone can flourish.

The idea, in other words, is that rights set the boundaries of the demands society can make on us. those limits

Discussion

1. I like Tomasello’s suggestion that one feature of shared agennce is the construction of a onsensus picture of the reality confronting the group, so that sensible shared decisions can be made. This was doable 10,000 years ago, but in our radically different world it’s hard. We’ve replace full consensus with majority rule

2. We should think about their impact of rights on our society as a whole, more than the feelings of the individuals claiming rights. Let’s take guns as an example. What kind of society do gun rights advocate think we should have? Should people with the history of Zackey Rahimi be allowed to have guns? Should this decision be made by 5 unaccountable unconstrained members of SCOTUS?  Or should the majority decide based on their understanding of the nature of a good society?

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21 replies
  1. 90's Country says:

    I believe we’re in a tyranny of the minority situation in the US. From my perspective (born in 1950) as the “silent” majority became an actual minority in the 90’s, when the USSR was no longer a handy enemy to focus on, that previous majority didn’t take the rational step of allowing others to join their group, thus retaining a majority presence, but chose instead to attempt to govern as a distinct minority, necessitating the denial of voting rights, the mass incarceration of whole generations of specifically Black men, the demonnification of an actual majority, and the subterfuge and plain lawless behavior that was “justified” by a white Jesus who had replaced the previously Middle-Eastern guy from Bethlehem.

    Having five folks who represent that same tyrannical minority acting as the supreme power of the land makes it all the more surreal, imho.

    And with that I will cease and desist from this mindless, as my brother (b. 1949) would call it, drivel.

    • wasD4v1d says:

      I think your observation squares with Ed Walker’s piece, in a weird way but these are weird times. The party of minority rule has achieved a consensus where rights don’t mean anything. As he points out, consensus means a smaller group – but this in a world where that smallness comes with significant geopolitical costs and military risks (think: the Balkans). I don’t think the party of minority rule has considered these costs, nor what happens to the value of their dollar. The US is large enough to be a geopolitical reality of its own and the emergence of a government that lubricates the frictions of individual agency while simultaneously integrating whole subcultures is a more modern and powerful answer. One hopes the voting majority in this country turn out to ratify this.

  2. John Paul Jones says:

    The hunting example. Not entirely sure of my ground here, but don’t many hunting groups have a special prize (heart; liver; something) which goes to the hunter who actually brought down the animal? So the hunter’s desire for gratification is satisfied, and the band’s desire for food to be brought home is also satisfied. Plus, isn’t it the case that some groups very early learned how to drive herds into situations where it was relatively cost-less to kill large numbers of animals, thus also lessening the tension between desires of individual hunters and service to the larger group?

    • SotekPrime says:

      My understanding is also that many hunter-gatherer groups were primarily reliant on gathering over hunting, so hunting was primarily a prestige act – the real benefit for the hunter was the status and bragging rights.

      (Plus, of course, if you take down a large animal and don’t have refrigeration, there’s no way you, personally, are going to be able to eat any significant portion of the kill before it spoils – so you have a feast and share with everyone around)

      • earlofhuntingdon says:

        A tad reductionist. Hunting was not just for food or prestige, but for the essentials of survival. Animal skins made blankets, clothing and shelters. Horns, bones, and hooves made weapons and tools. Leather and sinew became fasteners, organs stored water. An American bison carcass was used from stem to stern. It took a lot of hands working overtime to create all those fixtures of daily life and survival.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          When you have to do something to survive – hunting, say, for food and the fixtures of daily life, or war making – but it’s dangerous, it seems inevitable that it will become a prestigious and socially rewarded thing. Customs and ritual will accumulate around it, in order to perpetuate the behavior and, consequently, the survival of the group.

      • Rayne says:

        Just dawned on me this might be a reason for domestication of dogs — disposers of the scraps which couldn’t be eaten or preserved by humans, in exchange for other services like companionship and guarding.

        • WilliamOckham says:

          There is a theory that dogs domesticated humans. I find that idea fascinating, and I’m not even what you would call a dog person.

  3. rockfarmer says:

    Loved “The Dawn of Everything” by Graeber and Wengrow. As soon as we were human, we became very political, on a group as well as an individual basis. Even when that threatened one’s prospects for survival. We are dyed-in-the-wool political animals from the get-go. Another of the many topics in that expansive book.

  4. AlaskaReader says:

    “Should people with the history of Zackey Rahimi be allowed to have guns?”

    Quite obviously, from his documented long history of abusing the right to own a firearm, Rahimi should be disallowed ownership of firearms, even putting aside any additional consideration of a protective order.

    As to whether the decision should be granted to the majority or SCOTUS, that question is tempered by the fact that we have members on the Supreme Court who should have been either never appointed or long since impeached and removed.

    I believe impartial judges could decide the question of what’s best for society, but the current court is not comprised of impartial judges and that’s a huge problem.

  5. Error Prone says:

    Money talks, Bullshit walks. Idle hands are the devil’s workshop. An agent owes a fiduciary duty to his principal. Life, liberty and property. Collective ownership of the means of production. The Wealth of Nations. Consent of the governed. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Well Toto, we’re not in Kansas anymore. All the king’s horses, all the king’s men couldn’t put Humpty together again. I don’t have to outrun the bear, I only have to outrun you. Promised land.
    The beerhall putsch. My Struggle. The Treaty of Versailles. Storm the Bastille. A lot of ways to skin a cat. A computer on every desk running Microsoft software. Crime doesn’t pay. You gotta get behind the mule in the morning and plow. The Prince. To the victor go the spoils. Turn the other cheek. Justice is blind. Majority rules. The divine right of kings. One person one vote. It’s all about the Benjamins. I got here first. Rule of law. Courts of Equity. She started it. There’s a man with a gun over there, telling me I gotta beware. I ain’t gonna work on Maggie’s farm no more. God’s on our side. God favors the larger battalions. The Ghost in the Machine. Rome wasn’t built in a day. The weekend, brought to you by the unions. The Ghost of Tom Joad. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Imagine. Give me five, I’m still alive, ain’t no luck, i learned to duck. The band plays on. The Fertile Crescent. The cows need milking. Winning isn’t everything. It’s better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all. To love, honor and obey. Manifest destiny. Graveyards are full of indispensable people. Procreation not recreation. Mask up, the flu season is back. Do as I say, not as I do. Walk the line. Patience is a virtue. Golden rule, Break on through to the other side. Might makes right. Divide and conquer. What you don’t know won’t hurt you. Obey your elders. Never turn your back. Three squares and a flop. Share and share alike. Never look back, something might be gaining on you. Don’t just listen, hear. Look before you leap. Don’t talk back. Your loss shall be my gain. You pay the piper, you call the tune. Don’t you cry for me. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Barefoot and pregnant. Hammer and sickle. Google it. Hand me a Kleenex. In perpetuity. Leave a little room to change. Build a better mousetrap. A bird in the hand. Bill of Rights. Know the ropes. You do the crime, you do the time. Don’t call me, I’ll call you.

    It is all about how you organize. the pluses and minuses, where elites are inevitable.

  6. Ed Walker says:

    The discussion of the hunting example is helpful. I intended to have it considered as coming up early in the evolutionary history of the cultural group, to illustrate the fact that any rule sets up a conflict between the selfish desires of the individual and the requirements set by the group.

    I don’t think we know how early cultures dealt with those conflicts, but over time they must have come up with solutions. Or maybe the demands of survival were so great that it was easier to shun people who acted out about it. And maybe over time most of us are satisfied to play our role and move to other positions over time.

    The problem arises when too many people don’t accommodate themselves to the needs of the group. One bit of fallout is the refusal to accept a objective iew of reality and to insist that their view is superior and that the majority has to accept it.

    Our early human ancestors could pick up and go. We can’t.

  7. Epicurus says:

    “We should think about their impact of rights on our society as a whole, more than the feelings of the individuals claiming rights.” That is pretty much what Jamal Greene’s Book “Our Obsession With Rights Is Tearing Us Apart” is all about. He focuses on the issue by suggesting the role of judges isn’t as arbiters in win/lose situations (your five judges above) but rather about the balancing of rights between individuals and communities/societies.

  8. Yogarhythms says:

    Ed,
    Haven’t read the authors works. I find the thread interesting though. I’m not sure how the quantitative metric used to measure adherence amongst the consensuses individual outliers vs the quantity of individual outliers found within and without a majority rule would compare.

    2nd thoughts: I think the our present constitutional construct granting a Supreme Court justice life time tenure speaks to our faith in the ability of laws to settle a question among the majority. I would like to suggest both our present diverse alternative facts and our various perceived realities are not new and are magnified by our social media. For example 1918 flu pandemic millions died and many cities and states said quarantine is wrong and if you pray you can have a parade and no one will get sick. Other cities and states said our public health nurses warn us to isolate and quarantine and less people will get sick and die. Over 100 years later a second viral pandemic arrives and a malignant narcissist is president and lies about the virus and millions died. The social fabric of the majority was torn with schools shuttered and jobs that could be done remotely suddenly were remote jobs. People rebelled chose different facts, realities and refused to vaccinate or mask or quarantine and the president encouraged the rebellious amongst the majority. A group consensus of twenty in Los Angeles died waiting for the starship to beam them up. 900 in Jonestown dies with a consensus of koolaid. 70 million formed a consensus in 2020 about the 45th president. Humans are susceptible to manipulation always have been. Facts and laws matter and a legal forum is the best way a majority can settle a question.

    • Lisboeta says:

      “the president encouraged the rebellious amongst the majority.”
      If you are referring to president #45, should it not be ‘amongst the minority’? As of May 2023, CDC reports 81.4% of the US population have received at least one Covid dose; 69.5% completed the primary series.
      Bivalent vaccines first became available in 2022 during the tenure of president #46. Only 17.0% of the population have received the updated (bivalent) booster. I don’t know how one determines whether the 83% who haven’t yet had it are ‘rebellious’, or have some other reason?

      “a legal forum is the best way a majority can settle a question.”
      Only if the presiding justices are honest and impartial. Impartiality is not guaranteed when justices at all levels are appointed as much on the basis of their political leaning as on their legal expertise. Even less guaranteed when ‘gifts’ from wealthy donors are taken into account.

  9. Lycan1 says:

    There’s no limit to what the powerful can demand of everyone else. We are not so far removed from human sacrifice and jus primus noctis.

     
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