James Comer’s Second Impeachment Hearing More of a Circus than the First
The House Oversight and Judiciary Committees are attempting to hold split screen mark-up meetings to hold Hunter Biden in contempt.
It was going to be a shit-show in any case. Between the two committees, Jim Jordan, Andy Biggs, and Scott Perry all blew off January 6 Committee subpoenas. Ranking Member of the Oversight Committee, Jamie Raskin explained what Perry had done in advance of January 6 as Perry visibly seethed.
Neither Chair — Jordan or Comer — keep their committees in order. Comer in particular has problems keeping Majorie Taylor Greene from doing really outrageous things (Jordan doesn’t make the same efforts to keep Matt Gaetz in line on HJC). Indeed, she attempted to submit something into evidence that led to a halt of the hearing as staffers from both sides discussed whether whatever she had on placards could properly come in; they did not.
One after another Democrat used their turn to focus on the emoluments report they recently released, with Republicans dedicating much of their time trying to explain away that Trump was on the take of China during his presidency, while Comer desperately tried to tie a 2017 or 2018 payment from CEFC to Hunter Biden to his father, after Biden left government.
Every public hearing is going to continue to be like this — testament not just that Donald Trump has done what Republicans have found no evidence showing Biden has — but also showing that rather than government, or funding government, Republicans continue to sniff Hunter Biden’s dick pics.
Democratic Representative Robert Garcia even said that, dick pics, in the hearing.
This is the face Donald Trump has demanded that House Republicans show to the American people.
And then, to make it worse, Hunter Biden showed up himself, with Abbe Lowell in tow.
Nancy Mace immediately accused Hunter of having no balls, because it’s never a House Oversight hearing without Hunter’s genitalia being the central issue.
Comer failed to find a way to get CSPAN to stop tracking how Hunter and his attorney were responding. He similarly was helpless to prevent CSPAN showing his miserable face as Raskin made point after point.
Jared Moskowitz asked for a show of hands of Republicans who wanted to just question Hunter right then and there. Until — as soon as MTG first spoke, they all got up and walked out of the room.
Before the Committees broke for votes, Raskin was taking to calling his colleagues cult members, doing the bidding of Donald Trump.
This is the face of the Republican House. That’s what Donald Trump is demanding will be the face of the Republican House.
A masterful live-tweeting of this farce, by Marcy:
https://nitter.net/emptywheel/status/1745100210529853691
Jan 10, 2024 · 3:08 PM UTC
And here’s Aaron Rupar with a signature VIDEO-thread:
https://nitter.net/atrupar/status/1745101685012210161
Jan 10, 2024 · 3:13 PM UTC
Thanks, for the links, Harpie.
My favorite part: “Spartz says that the mob attacked the Capitol on Jan6 bc govt–led at the time by Donald Trump–wasn’t doing anything for the people.”
OMG, that’s funny! It should make an interesting campaign ad.
“Now saying it’s Unamerican to call them insurrectionists. She says she knew a lot of people there in the crowd.”
I’ll bet she did!
“She says we have to decide if we’re going to be adults in the room.”
I’m at a loss for words.
They failed to take the Pledge… maybe they don’t even know what it is.
The Pledge they use is what gives their desks and noses that brilliant shine.
Yes, the Pledge is both a floor-wax and a dessert topping.
Excellent work! It shimmers!
Democrats came armed with facts, and more importantly, stunts for sound bites to give the media things to run with AND understand themselves.Game the ‘refs’ is a solid strategy.
Good luck getting it on national news media though? Local, sure. National news generally panders to Trump when it comes to sound-bites.
One needs more than luck finding coverage of Comer’s circus in the national news. What is in the news this morning is Trump’s town hall, Trump’s Civil trial, Trump Can’t Make Final Arguments, Will you vote for Trump, Debate without Trump. There is some coverage of yesterday’s shitshow, (House GOP Advances HB Contempt Resolution after Fiery Hearing) but you need to look for it. Sadly, that news doesn’t generate enough clicks to be profitable.
Dick clicks!
MTG was no doubt trying to raise the profile of the hearing by introducing some headline making graphics again. She was just trying to help get the message out, and look at how little thanks we give her. /s
It certainly explains the GOP desire for closed hearings beyond the ability to filter out inconvenient facts. Of course it’s a shitshow, and even if HB didn’t show up it would still be a shitshow. However, HB and Lowell proved once again how to get into the heads of the hyenas trying to drag Joe Biden down. One wonders whether Weiss realizes just how little he can deploy in his prosecution.
Many of the most rambunctious GOP types like Comer, Jordan, Mace and MTG have pretty significant skeletons in their closets. Mace’s may not be as apparent yet but it’s only a matter of time after a bad breakup before the whispers start.
So, why would Comer do this without making certain HB wouldn’t show? Correctly citing that Comer’s invite included public testimony, HB and Lowell just cut the legs out of any valid referral to DoJ for a contempt prosecution and just showed how partisan the GOP hyenas are. It will be interesting to see how this is played by the RWNM as well as the courtier press. I don’t think it will go smoothly, and FWIW, Comer probably did his crusade more damage than good.
Also, consider the background of the budget votes coming due. The MAGA maniacs in the GOP caucus are mad at the Speaker for cutting a deal like MyKevin did, so perhaps the Comer hearing was intended to give them a chance to blow off some steam and pretend to be tough.
More likely, however, is that having failed to squeeze HB’s balls in a vice, the MAGA wing of the GOP will take it out on everyone else and jam up the budget votes.
It is not beyond the realm of possibility that these folks are pissed off enough that they will demand Mike Johnson’s gavel, and we’ll be in for another couple of weeks of Speaker-rama! squabbling.
Seriously, these folks hate to lose, and if they feel bad about being losers, they will find a way to make everyone else feel worse.
The House GOP are classic losers. They are all hat and no cattle. They were the stupid kids in high school who didn’t understand the assigned reading and made fools of themselves trying to argue their positions in class. The lack of evidence in their arguments was compensated for by speaking loudly and for a very long time, using vocabulary that they were only somewhat sure of the definition. (see Gym Jordan and MTG)
“They were the stupid kids in high school who didn’t understand the assigned reading and made fools of themselves trying to argue their positions in class.”
But in this case, the members know they’re behaving stupidly—it’s what they have to do for Donald’s approval.
Oh, I think there are a bunch in there who think they are very clever, but they are unencumbered by reality.
Or as Jimmy Kimmel said of doofus QB Rodgers, he got two As on his report card, and they are both in “Aaron”.
HA! Better than the two Ss in ‘a**hole’, which also applies to him. He has really gone way out on the end of the limb. I try not to remind people that he was once a great Cal QB any more.
Chico, CA’s most famous native son. Dude could be RFK Jr.’s running mate.
Please don’t suggest something like that, even in jest. An RFK/Rodgers ticket would win thousands of votes in Wisconsin.
Point taken.
So long as those voters were overwhelmingly erstwhile Republican voters, that would be OK.
My folks met at Chico State in the post war years (as bb great Clay Dalrymple was learning catching skills in little league there). Then years later, I graduated from Gonzaga Prep, the high school John Stockton played for before he went on to GU and to then become the greatest pure point guard in the NBA — and eventually became a vaccine denier and all around RW nutjob:
https://deadspin.com/john-stockton-flexes-what-little-credibility-he-has-lef-1848950957
https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2023/11/15/utah-jazz-great-john-stockton-is/
Is my family cursed? Or are we somehow responsible???~
Pioneer Daze
Are you from around there? I went to that festival when visiting cousins there in the 60s.
I haven’t been tuned into Chico for decades, though, and didn’t even know Rodgers was from there. My uncle was actually head football coach and AD at Chico HS, but that was 20 years before Rogers played at Pleasant Valley, their cross town rival. Uncle “Rock” retired in ’77, the month and year the iconic Hooker Oak fell down.
Heh, could Rodgers be tagged “The Hooker Oaf?” Probably not, only locals would get it and they wouldn’t like it.
No, Bay Area. But my high school sweetheart went to Chico State in the late 70s – early 80s, so I became familiar with the raucous Pioneer Days before it got out of hand (and shut down).
In the immortal words of Annie Savoy, “The world is made for people who aren’t cursed with self awareness.”
Nuke LaLoosh, poster boy of the House GOP.
A big part of their expectation that they can jam up the budget votes is based on their assumption that the business-as-usual Capitol Hill press corps will treat it as part of the dynamic they’ve enabled since the days Gingrich was a back bencher.
“Correctly citing that Comer’s invite included public testimony, HB and Lowell just cut the legs out of any valid referral to DoJ for a contempt prosecution and just showed how partisan the GOP hyenas are.”
It’s a win-win, from Comer’s perspective. Either the DoJ pursues the contempt charge, or they don’t and Comer, et al. bray about the corruption of “Biden’s DoJ.”
I thought that MTG made it pretty clear that Hunter has balls.
And today, he showed up to confirm it.
Nancy Mace: You have no balls!
HB: With all due respect, everyone here has already seen my balls, Madam.
Thanks to Marj, they’re in the Congressional Record!
Her calling out Hunter as using white privilege was quite the “did she really say that?” moment for me.
OTOH, as she’s a southern white woman, perhaps I should acknowledge that she certainly might know a thing or two about white privilege.
Isn’t Comer President Scro-Tum or something like that?
Don’t do that, punaise!
I damn near lost my tobacco spit in an uncontrolled manner.
I’m here to help! :~)
Nurse Looking-to-Ratched-It-Up!
NOTE TO ALL COMMENTERS . . .
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But once your beverages have been placed in a safe place, by all means read what punaise has to say, as it usually provides a measure of well-needed levity in the midst of the great pain and chaos that lies at the heart of politics these days.
Note also that we can neither confirm nor deny that rumor that punaise adds a hashmark to his computer case every time an EW commenter’s spit-take ruins a monitor, keyboard, phone or other device.
Nice disclaimer Peterr… you’re a model of tolerance. Goodness knows I’ve given plenty of (usually silly) fodder to warrant being de-sand-boxed here.
You have certainly dished out your share of pun-ishment.
Ha!
punaise is gonna love this.
Thanks, Peterr.
Too true!
If there were a ‘spit take’ counter on each page, the damage might be counted into the millions. Fortunately, my cell-phone and laptop are fairly liquid tolerant.
Dick bait! Honestly, I am sick of her bare arms.
How rude of Hunter to show up in person when the Republicans planned to trash him behind his back.
This. There was Biden, sitting in the audience daring them to say their crap in public. And, of course, they did.
It was an extremely canny move.
When modern day Republicans are the majority, House Committee hearings are always more show than substance. Who can forget Darryl Issa turning off Elijah Cummings microphone when he tried to object? Or the 11 hr Benghazi hearing with Sec. Clinton? Or any hearing where Matt Gaetz and Jim Jordan are members? The degradation continues and with little pretense that anything remotely resembling legislation or oversight is going to happen.
BOOM! That was one of the most masterful take-downs of the modern day GOP that I have read in a while! Thank you, EW! Yes, the current House so-called Oversight Committee is the lamest kangaroo court ever assembled and James Comer continues to reprise the role of Mr. Haney in Green Acres to a startling degree. I am now a very big Hunter Biden fan!
They certainly appear to currently have less reach than McCarthy’s hearings in the 50s.
Hunter Biden sitting there was like Frank Pentangeli in Godfather 2. The GOP’s circus was already a shit-show. Then, Hunter shows up and all he has to do is sit there to make them look even more stupid.
Hunter Biden was stoic and then left at the right t
Green Acres fursure. And MteeGreen is played by Arnold.
https://youtu.be/2anpnt9VWiM?si=hgLlcDUh9G-GB6nh
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How will showing up and having the committee choose not to question him play out in court? From a technical perspective he didn’t show up when he was subpoenaed to show up.
This is from Rugger9, back up thread a ways:
“Correctly citing that Comer’s invite included public testimony, HB and Lowell just cut the legs out of any valid referral to DoJ for a contempt prosecution.”
Hunter has now shown up twice while the committee was holding hearings and shown a willingness to testify in public, just as he was asked to do by the Committee. Therefore, one could argue, he has not, in substance, defied the subpoena. I’m not sure that would be a winning argument in court all by itself, but it works as a public demonstration.
Yes, and IIRC, the first time he showed up, it was on the date which the subpoena had requested that he show.
DOJ could still prosecute Biden for contempt…though, yeah, it probably got a lot harder to do so.
Here’s the Committee’s recommendation to seek a contempt vote from the full House:
https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Hunter-Biden-Contempt-Report-Oversight.pdf
Where’s bmaz?
Where do you want him to be? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOcTdH-Cg7M
I want to read what he has to say about this shit.
You can’t yet figure out what he’d say about it? smh
I want to be surprised.
I was hoping to see what he had to say about Kise to the judge:
“Think of your legacy. This is precedent.”
I hope he’s ok.
“ DOJ could still prosecute Biden for contempt”
Not likely, since the committees were not authorized to subpoena outside of the subject matter of their committee(s). As Marcy has noted, they held the full House vote for that authority AFTER the subpoena was issued. It’s how congress has worked from the very beginning.
Stranger things have happened. Review the McCarthy hearings from the 1950s to see how bad it can get.
This isn’t the 50’s. Wasn’t McCarthy censured by the Senate after his roll during those hearings?
This is all just noise that will be forgotten in due time.
I would swear there were only 4 comments ahead of me and that wasn’t one of them. But I’m also really tired.
It’s about what I was thinking: the facts are chaotic and not great to convince a jury.
I loved when Hunter walked out on MTG; no one should listen to her shrill nasal whine any longer than necessary. I also loved when Fox cut away from her and went to Hunter. She did her usual fake smile to hide her MAGA rage.
Jared Moskowitz is an absolute joy to watch.
Yes! When Hunter walked out, all of the reporters went with him, giving zilch coverage to MTG. I loved how angry she was!
And Raskin…
Raskin has always been a joy. Moskowitz is a new delight.
And Moskowitz is from Florida. Yay!
Yay indeed! Let’s (y’all) keep him in the room! I wish I could help from here in the blueblueblue state of Connecticut, where none of our votes count, but I just can’t imagine living in Florida. Not now.
MTG couldn’t help herself. She displayed the dick pics again. Sigh. Don’t these folks have a Speaker of the House to yeet back up Sinai?
It’s like MTG is trying to help Hunter Biden. Just imagine if this silly DOJ referral actually ended up in a court room.
I wonder if MTG’s boyfriend knows that she can’t stop thinking about Hunter’s dick pics. When Raskin told her she’s the porn expert I nearly died.
Is that the tantric sex guru boyfriend?
She knows it when she sees it.
I hope a Democrats take Nancy Mace’s speech where she eloquently points out all the important Civil Rights leaders and events that harken from her district, then uses them to make the point that except for her, Republicans don’t believe in Civil Rights for Blacks, and turn it into an ad.
except for her?
Thanks.
Much of this is the result of Gerrymandering. There is considerably less of this in the Senate.
I posted a long time ago the best thing for Mr. Biden to do was show up. He did. And brought his attorney and few prepared quips.
It’s not that there’s “considerably less” gerrymandering in the Senate — there’s none at all since U.S. Senators are state-wide elected positions, without districts or boundaries other than state lines.
However since the Senate consists of two Senators for each state, no matter how small or large (population-wise, natch), by its nature it presents a related issue wherein a minority can exercise far more political power than the constituents it represents.
I believe the word “this” in BRob’s second sentence is pointing to the same referent as the “this” in his first sentence — the agitprop drama. And there is indeed “considerably less” of that in the Senate, but still _some_. I’m reasonably certain BRob understands that there is no gerrymandering at all in the Senate.
One might argue gerrymandering is baked in to the Senate. Yes, it’s not called gerrymandering per se, the allotment of 2 senators to 700,000 population states and the same 2 senators to 20+ million population states, but the effect is very much the same. This allocation of senators is constitutionally prescribed, baked in so to speak, and thus far, the nation has abided. But it is not sustainable, imho. And as long as it is sustained, probably for a great many years to come, there will be a constant tension, along the same lines we are seeing now, as Just Some Guy describes “a minority can exercise far more political power.” Will this tension boil over? The more apt question is when.
Agree with your comment in the sense that both House district gerrymandering and the composition of the Senate produce anti-democratic results, but the former tends to be a powerful majority enacting a method that deprives the political power of a minority, while the latter enables a minority to usurp the political power of a majority. Maybe that’s not a distinction that matters to some, but I find it important.
Also I agree that you are correct about the Senate’s composition producing unsustainable results.
I agree, Just Some Guy. Senste composition is a real problem but IMO we do the discourse a diservice by conflating true gerrymandering and the Constitutional structure of the Senate. Gerrymandering is a state-by-state lecel issue with at least SOME level of healthy bipartisan opposition and csn be fought without opening the Pandora’s box of a con con.
Some takes can be valid but simultaneously non-useful or even deleterious in practical terms and for me at least, calling the Senate’s rural/urban disparities “gerrymandering” is just such a take. I’d give it credence as a debate judge but would prefer to keep it widely at bay in the practical trenches of gerrymandering reform and related public messaging.
Your concern about “conflating” would be more convincing if I had done so. My first comment here was to note an inaccurate statement that could be interpreted to state that gerrymandering exists as an issue for the Senate.
Let’s end this exchange because it’s not on topic, capisce? The topic of this post is Rep. James Comer’s circus as impeachment hearing.
Comer is exceedingly bad at his job of being the Oversight Committee chair. Also, although it saddens me to think about what took him there, Jamie “Zero Fucks Left to Give” Raskin is the best Jamie Raskin for our country.
As far as Comer being exceedingly bad at his job, it’s the Republicans aim to prove that government is bad and they/we need to get rid of government and tear it all down.
“…it’s the Republicans aim to prove that government is bad,,,”
“… it’s the Russian/plutocrats aim to prove that the US government is bad…”
One and the same. The (r)epuglicons are all pwned/owned/c[kompromised. The existing critters have no safe exit and will take everything down if they can.
Never let someone who says government can’t work get into government and prove themselves right. I believe I have mentioned this before.
Both Raskin and Elijah Cummings before him make Comer look like a drooling idiot.
It’s a sign of the absolute failure of the Capitol Hill press corps that they can’t admit it in the name of fake fairness and balance. And what that ends up meaning is that they grossly insult Raskin and the memory of Cummings by suggesting there’s any kind of equivalency.
Depends what you think the job of being the Oversight Committee chair is. Given that the MAGA wing demanded the Oversight chair for one of their own, back in days when they reluctantly agreed to elect Kevin McCarthy speaker of the house after God-knows-how-many ballots, it’s their job description that matters.
His job, from the MAGA POV is to (a) not be a RINO, and (b) provide as many opportunities as possible for grandstanding by the MTGs and Nancy Mace’s of the House, as well as for ranting and raving by the OAN, Newsmax, and Fox ranters and ravers. They don’t care about the quality of these opportunities as much as the do the volume.
By that standard, he’s good at his job. Not great, but good enough for the MAGA world.
15. 15 ballots.
Is he really providing as many opportunities as possible, though? At least in their minds?
One of the basic demands of delusional people is that someone like Comer has a Pearl Harbor attack sized headline on the front page of the NY Times and a 22 minute special report on the evening news of every network every day.
They also want the same thing at the same time from Jim Jordan. And the chair of the House Armed Sevices Committee, the governor of Oklahoma, and the school board of Polk County Ohio.
It doesn’t matter if their expectations are remotely realistic. Is Comer really feeding the beast the way they expect? And will they devour him if he isn’t?
I think he has done his job for the last year, but it’s about to get a lot harder, because his lies are less protected, and there’ll be more circuses like yesterday.
In this particular case, I was referring to Comer’s ability to run a hearing. He was ill-prepared and ineffective at controlling either side. He seemed to have no idea what was coming next. He wasn’t even good at being sanctimonious. That’s one of the easiest things to pull off.
I am old. But its time to recall the words of Joseph N. Welch: Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?
The lasting damage that McCarthy did to the Republican Party in Wisconsin can hardly be measured. Make them all Joe and Josephine McCarthy.
Speaking of old (as am I); I’m too lazy to link to it at sad and useless dot com, but the cartoon shows two old farts at a bar and one says to the other:
“Kids theses days need to quit their whining and do what we did: be born white, male, and seventy years ago.”
Well!
Sir, I both resent and resemble that remark!
And a good day to you, too!
Appreciate that reference. I’m going to save it and send it out to friends and family on my 70th birthday next month.
Some will be highly indignant and reply with variations on a theme of Harrumph Harrumph.
With others, I hope to inspire a number of punaise-worthy spit-takes!
My Thanks, Good Sir!
Cheers, good fellow. I should give full credit to the source.
Jasmine Crockett goes for the kill: I don’t know how y’all are still standing you must be dizzy from spinning so much. Wonderful.
Where did she come from? I’d never heard of her till seeing her on MSNBC last night. She’s spunky.
BTW, this a.m. Fox & Friends is all about Wills’ love life, and Bartiromo is pretending inflation is still raging. While the Shit Show may have provided great entertainment for such as read Emptywheel. I suspect it was a non-event for Republicans. Or did they tune into C-SPAN in numbers? Is there a metric for that?
I hear echoes of Ann Richards in Crockett. The chief weapon used by Texas women in politics is exactly this kind of “bless your heart” critique/condemnation of their opponents, and Crockett seems at least as effective as Richards at using it.
Its the old joke about the third lady saying, My husband paid for me to attend charm school, where I learned to say “How nice” instead of “**** you”.
Semi-related, when one of her friends complained about Harry’s use of the word ‘manure’ in conversation, Bess Truman sighed and told her ‘Do you realize just how long it took me to get him to say manure?’
Representative Crockett is a sparkling addition to the House. Steel-trap, rattlesnake-fast mind of the best lawyers on that committee, along with the Southern Belle manners my mother tried and failed to pass on to me. I’m royally sick of the whole false eyelashes trend, but for her I’ll make an exception, because she wields them like the weapons they should be.
Rep Jasmine Crockett of TX laid open Republican malfeasance on the House floor, had her speech trend on Xitter, and appeared on Chris Hays’ show all in the same day. She’s an articulate, committed, and clear-thinking young rising star in the Democratic Party.
She’s a freshman and former public defender. If you want more, there’s a video from MSNBC on YouTube titled “Bringing the Receipts”. What brought her to my attention was her comments about the documents found at Mar-a-Lago “These are our national secrets and looks like they were in the shitter to me.”
Ann Richards would be so proud; Barbara Jordan, too.
I am none too pleased with MSNBC lately, but I do have to give them credit for bringing Jasmine Crockett to my attention back when she was serving as a state rep. in Texas. She’s always had that blazing star power, like a Southern AOC with less self-consciousness born of relentless harassment in AOC’s case. I look forward to the alliances she will form going forward.
“Nancy Mace immediately accused Hunter of having no balls, because it’s never a House Oversight hearing without Hunter’s genitalia being the central issue.”
I’ve long learned to read Marcy’s columns on my iPad rather than my MacBook, where the morning coffee I inevitably spew meets no keyboard.
Lisa Rubin is in Engoron’s courtroom live-tweeting [with great annotation!] closing arguments,
[she’s not real consistent about threading though]:
https://nitter.net/lawofruby
https://twitter.com/lawofruby
ie:
Engoron’s house was swatted [< correct word?] this morning:
https://nitter.net/Jose_Pagliery/status/1745426341552345186
Jan 11, 2024 · 12:44 PM UTC
From the linked article:
LOL Trying to think of single-family residences which bring in so much revenue like membership or entrance fees…I can only think of places not occupied by living owners, ex. Graceland, Hearst’s Castle. Good luck with that, Trump.
Perhaps a brothel?
Name one, though.
Might also point out that MaL could also be a “full-service resort”; access to its list of services went missing briefly about the time Robert Kraft was arrested farther north up Florida’s coast for buying sex services.
Plenty of churches/houses of worship are also residences. Let’s hope that he doesn’t get any ideas.
Single. Family. Residence.
This doesn’t mean places of religious observance or a parsonage.
https://nitter.net/lawofruby/status/1745481006633595191
Jan 11, 2024 · 4:21 PM UTC
And on NBC live feed LisaR noted that Engoron intervened (again) to accurately state the law, thus dismissing Kise misstatement on the spot
If the credit worthiness of the recipient of the funds is irrelevant, don’t we usually consider that a gift or a bribe? Where did Duetsche Bank get the money? Inquiring minds want to know.
I like the part about Trump saying it’s ok he got paid millions by China and others because he provided a service for them. Well, what services exactly could the POTUS render foreign governments? If a democrat every said something like this We’d lose the GOP. They would all die of stroke within minutes.
Plus, is it not a fact (though I do not know if it was introduced into evidence) that another division of DeutscheBank did decline trump’s business? So it is not correct to say that the documents had no significance.
We talked about these closing arguments yesterday, beginning with Molly Pitcher’s comment, here: https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/01/09/judge-karen-hendersons-floodgate-concerns/#comment-1032699
Marcy just retweeted Adam Klasfeld who is also live-tweeting, also with great annotation. Here’s the beginning of his THREAD:
https://nitter.net/KlasfeldReports/status/1745453989330895236
Jan 11, 2024 · 2:33 PM UTC
Lisa Rubin has long been consistently helpful and full of constructive insight. Thanks, harpie.
Two thoughts . . .
(1) Either Kise has never seen the agreement, or he’s lying through his teeth. From Article II: “The use of the land shall be for a private social club . . .” with no kitchen spaces allowed in the guest suites, and all kinds of other non-residential restrictions.
(2) If Trump wants to value the property outrageously, under oath in Engoran’s courtroom, I am sure Palm Beach would be willing to reassess it and tax it accordingly. Given that Trump is claiming that this was the value in prior years, I am sure Palm Beach would be willing to send him a revised assessment for those prior years.
Kise is deranged
Apart from the factual, procedural and legal misstatements at one point he said
“Kise to the judge:
“Think of your legacy. This is precedent.””
Per Klarsfeld thread
According to this Jose Pagliery THREAD, Kise pretty much began the day by “complaining about how unfair this trial has been.” LOL!
https://nitter.net/Jose_Pagliery/status/1745467592393773514
Jan 11, 2024 · 3:25 PM UTC
Kise barefaced gall to invite a judge to ‘consider his legacy’ after we all read the emails he sent ( as well as everything else they have done throughout the trial and been sanctioned for ) is breathtaking…
Speaking of which
Here comes Habba
And Trump can’t keep his mouth shut. I hope he gets fined an extra $50k like the judge said he would for breaking the gag order.
I swear after re-reading that agreement we could find numerous examples of Trump and Trump org violating the terms. I seriously doubt there were variances granted for all the events held over the years at the club from which Trump org earned beaucoup.
I know there was a dispute with Palm Beach about his residency — he tried to get around it by calling himself (and Melania) onsite staff.
Klasfeld at 5:01 PM UTC
Rubin at 4:59 PM UTC
Pretty sure it’s to strip a *company* of it’s property. If someone has all their wealth owned by their company to get out of paying taxes and things and commits fraud on top of it, that’s their gamble.
Klasfeld’s new THREAD after the break:
https://nitter.net/KlasfeldReports/status/1745494931810967885
Jan 11, 2024 · 5:16 PM UTC
Tweet #2:
It’s going to be a long day.
https://nitter.net/lawofruby/status/1745495531797848119
Jan 11, 2024 · 5:18 PM UTC
Lisa Rubin at 5:41 PM UTC
https://nitter.net/lawofruby/status/1745504676513014081
Jan 11, 2024 · 5:55 PM UTC
[next tweet]
re: Trump starts talking immediately without agreeing.
TRUMP was supposed to agree in writing and then again in person.
See email exchange here:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/01/09/judge-karen-hendersons-floodgate-concerns/#comment-1032934
The last email in the exchange [excerpt], 1/10/24 12:12 PM
Engoron to Kise:
The question now is whether the Judge is going to sanction Trump.
The Judge clearly set out parameters in the emails.
That was not a matter for consent by Trump. The only is of ‘consent’ was that he was required to acknowledge the conditions before the Judge would grant permission.
Trump is clearly on notice of the conditions and the sanctions that would be imposed for breach. (By virtue of the acknowledgement of the conditions and attempt to negotiate them, by Trumps counsel on his behalf)
Engoron has little option but to revisit the matter especially as there is a direct breach of the pre-existing gag order.
Yes, thanks for clarifying about the consent required.
The only is of ‘consent’ was that he was required to acknowledge the conditions before the Judge would grant permission.
And, the conditions were those that
any attorney would have had to abide by in closing arguments.
The only *element of ‘consent’ is etc
Oops typo
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24356800-emails-between-judge-engoron-and-trump-attorneys
P7 sets out a $50,000 fine for breach of the gag order.
Engoron may be tempted to roll that amount into his final judgment, rather than create another issue for appeal.
But since Trump theatrically stalked out of the courtroom after his banned tirade, avoiding an immediate response from the court, Engoron will be sorely tempted to sanction him, separate and apart from rendering final judgment.
I hope he’s fined $50k for each time he violated the order. Not once for his speech
In actual fact I am not sure that the gag order was breached.
Klarsfeld refers to all the conditions set out in the emails having been breached, but looking through the reports it doesn’t seem that Greenfield was referred to in the tirade. So that particular contempt may not have been committed, albeit that the conditions in the emails were otherwise fairly comprehensively breached.
So the threatened $50,000 sanction for a breach of the gag does not in fact seem to be made out.
However, bearing in mind the sanctions which had previously been imposed, a 50k sanction for new contempts would not perhaps be unreasonable.
I think Trump and Kise sandbagged Engoron by delaying the request to speak. Normally, such a request would have come up early, not after the defense had already exhausted its allotted time to speak. Not to mention, Engoron probably had no sleep last night, owing to being swatted again, this time via a bomb threat.
Trump, of course, didn’t wait for Engoron’s answer to Kise’s request. He just vomited up the things he was banned from saying, but only took about a minute to do it.
Trump knows he’s pissing off the guy who decides the facts and law, and settles on a final amount of damages. He must be hoping Engoron will slip and commit an error, or create a soundbite Trump can use through the election.
He’s betting that the appeals of the inevitably bad for him verdict will take so long, he’ll be able to derail the most costly aspects of them. I don’t imagine odds makers in Vegas will give him much chance of that.
It is definitely a poser for the Judge.
A contempt in the face of the court is difficult to ignore or soft pedal on.
And more so in the face of warnings that were set out with clarity.
But…
According to @KlasfeldReports “roughly 5-minute rant”.
https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1745510360113647857
A fuller write up of the incident by Klarsfeld
https://themessenger.com/politics/trump-new-york-courtroom-rant-witch-hunt-fraud-case
Which concludes with this
“Engoron, narrowing his eyes on the former president, silently allowed the speech to proceed and then interjected after Trump claimed he never had a problem.
“You said you never had a problem. Haven’t you been sued before?” the judge asked.
“I’ve been sued,” Trump replied
“Isn’t that a problem?” Engoron shot back.
Trump told the judge that he cannot listen, and the exchange ended with the judge calling a lunch recess. The attorney general’s closing arguments will begin at 2:15 p.m. EST”
A shrewd set of moves by the Judge, not allowing himself to be baited into precipitate action, establishing that he has taken in what has been said and is on top of the situation, leaving Trump to flounce off in a huff.
I still think he ought to address the matter of the contempt at some point, but the headmasterly approach would be to return to the matter after the AG has completed their summation, keeping Team Trump in suspense like a gaggle of schoolchildren.
https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1745532756048630197
Kise furiously objects after Wallace turns to what he calls the defense’s “Murderers’ Row of experts.”
“To use that caustic term, that’s outrageous,” Kise declares.
Engoron: “I take it to be poetic license, not literal.”
Engoron asks if he was accusing the defense experts of being murderers.
Wallace: “No, I was accusing them of being the ’27 Yankees.” (laughter)
This is what happens when you bring a Florida lawyer like Kise into a NY courtroom.
I dare say it was Ruth-less, with a Lazzeri-like focus.
This one, punaise! I was born in Chicago, where we used to cheat to win pennants, but in the long meantime have learned that other teams did it Ruth-fully and with honest Jeters.
Brilliant!
Perhaps this outburst was another attempt to bait the judge into prejudicial conduct to bolster the appeal. Irritating the judge for that purpose seems more like a gamble than a legal strategy.
Regardless of financial penalties, the judge should bar Trump and his company from doing business in the state. He has admitted that his financial statements are worthless as financial statements. His long time controller and CFO look like dunces and cheats and Trump and his sons profess to knowing little and caring less about the content.
Deutsche Bank comes off looking more like a public relations outfit and less like a bank.
No wonder we have periodic financial institution melt downs. Risk management is a paper tiger.
Deutsche Bank is one of world banking’s great bad actors. It has been fined billions just in the US.
Just because DB made money lending to a serious credit risk like Trump, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have made a lot more money – or obtained other, non-cash value – if it had had more accurate financial information on Trump’s condition.
I wish the media explained the issues in this case instead of just treating this as another Trump circus.
I’ve heard comments that everyone in business inflates their net worth. Maybe. But the next time there is a financial institution crisis maybe people should look more carefully at customary practices.
DB has had to clean up their portfolio. IIRC the bank told Trump to find a greater fool lender.
Didn’t the DB representative the Trump team called basically say on the stand, under oath, that DB didn’t care about Trump’s financial situation, because they were way more interested in having a high profile borrower like Trump doing business with them?
Given the frequency of its financial improprieties and the massive amount of fines it’s paid, just in the US, DB’s business practices are a pretty low bar. And HP covers a lot of territory. How about Bernie Madoff? He would have been HP.
Wanting a HP borrower is not the same thing as wanting a borrower whose income and liquidity are so poor that he’s a walking default risk. Nor does it mean they would not have charged higher rates/fees if he’d been honest about his financial condition, or even have been able to sell the loan to higher ups in the bank as an acceptable risk without the covenants he almost certainly breached when he signed up to them.
Thanks Harpie. I read this as it was posting on the Guardian UK live thread. I don’t for the life of me understand why the Judge didn’t stop him at the start when he did not agree.
Another case of not setting firm (no hard) boundaries for this toddler tyrant…SO frustrating! Grrr.
IANAL so maybe legal minds see a reason here I do not.
I can see the rationale for Engoron’s decision. It takes much of the wind out of Trump’s sails in regards to the “unfairly silenced” argument; having allowed him to bloviate, uninterrupted, for five minutes–knowing in advance what the rules and penalties are–Engoron is no longer open to Trump’s most simplistic charge against him.
That probably won’t save him from being swatted again, I fear.
INAL, but how often is a defendant allowed to speak in court while not on the stand and under oath.
Perhaps I’ve watched far too many crime dramas, but wasn’t Trump in contempt the moment he started his verbal diarrhea?
Afternoon session here:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/01/10/james-comers-second-impeachment-hearing-more-of-a-circus-than-the-first/#comment-1033161
Aaron Rupar did a Video THREAD of TRUMP’s post-trial news conference:
https://nitter.net/atrupar/status/1745529848083206483
Jan 11, 2024 · 7:35 PM UTC
Alina Habba claims the Trump Org “has singlehandedly changed the New York skyline”
Uh, so did the 9/11 hijackers. That’s not the flex you think it is…
Apparently Trump practiced his “closing argument” for days beforehand. It seems like all Alina Habba practiced is her pout.
Her pout has reached Melania level, but none of her legal arguments got out of the parking garage.
o/t…via Laura Rozen:
https://nitter.net/John_Hudson/status/1745481451737391399
Jan 11, 2024 · 4:23 PM UTC
Thank you for that, harpie. This inquiring mind definitely wanted to know about Blinken’s stance, and wasn’t hearing it on NPR. At least not yet.
FFS, Gallant must be delusional if he thinks that the US is going to sign up to be a police force in yet another Middle Eastern country. And, as Blinken said, that Arabs might be interested in financing reconstruction of what Israel broke when there’s no guarantee that Israel won’t just go and break it again.
Gallant is a ranting ideologue, part of the government that at best looked away while Hamas prepared for this attack, in pursuit of political ambitions. His current dehumanizing bloodlust for Palestinian lives looks from here like simply an attempt to retroactively distract from his own failures/calculations.
The whole Israeli right wing has Israeli blood up to their elbows for supporting Hamas to kneecap the PA and prevent a 2-state solution. Gallant is just a poster child. I can only hope that the Israeli public will see that at the next election, which I hope will be very soon.
Problem is that the Israeli government has been remarkably unstable since 2019 – they’ve had 5 elections since then! It’s a parliamentary system with multiple parties which means a coaltion government is a must since there is no majority party (at least not since 1969). Netanyahu, in his 3rd term, has chosen to partner with the Israeli equivalent of MAGA and the results are plain to see. Plus, because Israel has similar statutes (laws? rules?) as the U.S. does about a serving Prime Minister being immune from prosecution while in office, he’s avoiding attending his own corruption trial, which was begun right before he won the latest election. Too many similarities to what’s going on here. His attempt to “reform” the Israeli judiciary is a preview for what Trump could try to do here…
Jimmy Kimmel monologue last night
Republicans Thrown into a Tizzy Over Hunter Biden Surprise Visit, DeSantis vs Haley & Where’s Iowa?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5thx2aAqes&t=88s
LOL, Best Line: “Nancy Mace immediately accused Hunter of having no balls, because it’s never a House Oversight hearing without Hunter’s genitalia being the central issue.”
Afternoon closing arguments in Engoron’s court:
Lisa Rubin
https://nitter.net/lawofruby/status/174552681482966269
Jan 11, 2024 · 7:23 PM UTC
Adam Klasfeld:
https://nitter.net/KlasfeldReports/status/1745526886468366719
Jan 11, 2024 · 7:23 PM UTC
Klasfeld at 7:33 PM UTC
Rubin at 7:35 PM UTC
Rubin at 7:42 PM UTC
Rubin adds:
Is Chris Kise seriously trying to suggest that anyone in America wouldn’t know what a “Murderer’s Row” is?
Klasfeld at 7:46 PM UTC
Klasfeld links to this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murderers%27_Row
There is a comment in the pokey somewhere around here that is Rubin beginning with Wallace is arguing that by 2016, Trump’s liquidity was of real concern to Deutsche Bank.
Link: https://nitter.net/lawofruby/status/1745534993386930680#m
re the above, Dan Alexander at 8:01 PM UTC
Marcy links to Alexander:
https://nitter.net/emptywheel/status/1745559275903058368
Jan 11, 2024 · 9:32 PM UTC
…I found it particularly interesting when the years 2016-2017 came up.
Rubin at 7:55 PM UTC
[THANK YOU!]
Marcy links to a Dan Alexander Tweet, re the above:
https://nitter.net/emptywheel/status/1745559275903058368
Jan 11, 2024 · 9:32 PM UTC
https://nitter.net/Jose_Pagliery/status/1745536913912594651#m
Jan 11, 2024 · 8:03 PM UTC
Rubin at 8:08 PM UTC
Klasfeld at 8:23 PM UTC
Back from break
https://nitter.net/lawofruby/status/1745551031625228642
Jan 11, 2024 · 8:59 PM UTC
https://nitter.net/KlasfeldReports/status/1745550563977113872#m
Jan 11, 2024 · 8:57 PM UTC
Rubin at 9:21 PM UTC
Paglieri at 9:20 PM UTC
Klasfeld at 9:31 PM UTC
Totally plausible that Eric and Junior didn’t bother to familiarize themselves with the contents of financial statements they signed, trusting their father, the CFO, the Controller and the outside accountants. It is equally plausible that they just did as their father ordered. Maybe the judge won’t find them as culpable as their father. But people who sign off on financial applications and paperwork are chargeable with knowledge of the contents. The judge should prohibit the three of them from doing business in the state.
I’m sure Beavis and Butt-head were too eager to get on their private jet to a game farm to shoot helpless creatures.
“Sure, just show me where to sign. There. I’m off!”
Not sure how that works as a legal defense.
I had to sign off on stuff at some of my various jobs, The one where my boss insisted that it was okay to do that when I knew that it hadn’t met those requirements…I was glad to leave.
Better than signing blank checks or documents.
Doing what their father wanted is inconsistent with not familiarizing themselves with financial statements. He wanted them to make sure they showed that he had a certain minimum net worth. So, no, not familiarizing themselves with what was in the f/s is not credible.
Only an idiot signs something without reading it.
Calling a good percentage of the population idiots is not very nice.
Have you ever read the full “Terms and Conditions” or the “Privacy Terms” of your bank account, mortgage documents or credit card application, legal documents an attorney or tax returns a CPA sticks in front of your nose or how about your medical providers’ HIPPA form before signing?
Yeah, what xy-infiniti said.
We put our trust in our lawyers that when we sign that novel-like document for our mortgage, we’re not also signing away our firstborn.
I hope all the Trumps find the hell they deserve, but Engoron has a good point: where’s the evidence that they _knew_ they committed fraud?
Personally, I’m in line with RitaRita’s point, and they should’ve known what they were signing. Closing their eyes and sticking their fingers in their ears while their father engages in con games doesn’t mean they’re innocent.
Firstborn, secondborn, etc, our retirement plans,…
Especially given that they were, very publicly and with much hype, supposed to be running things under / taking over the business from their father, star of The Apprentice and later President of the United States. Most of us would be extra careful then.
No Business
There’s no business like snow business, like no business I know,
Everything about this I’m appealing,
Every cash cow grievance will allow,
Nowhere can I get that scrappy feeling
than when I’m stealing, or from Moscow.
There’s no people like snow people,
they smile at quid pro quo,
Even with a turkey
that they know will fold,
They may be stranded out in the cold,
But they’d soon short-change it
for a stranglehold,
Just to steal enough dough.
There’s no people like snow people,
At trial when they are low,
angles come from everywhere,
They think of Jack,
and when they lose it, they might attack,
Where could they get money
that they don’t give back?
Snow braggadocio!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhZEihF6a6I
“There’s No Business Like Show Business” – Ethel Merman at The Boston Pops
Wow! You’ve absolutely out-done yourself.
Thanks for the new lyrics to that ear-worm…..
Wow. I think this one is among your finest pieces of work! Brava!
Love this, SL!
Touché!
Late to the accolade party, I know, but you are swingin’ with this one, SL!
Also late to the accolade party SL.
Your excellent effort inspired me to attempt this contribution to the Trump/Merman showstopper song book
“Everything Is coming up Voters”
Here he is, boys!
Here he is, world!
He’s Arose !
Curtain up!
Light the lights!
Play it, boys!
Ya either got it, or ya ain’t.
And, boys, I got it!
Ya like it?
Well, I got it!
Some people got it and make it pay.
Some people can’t even give it away.
This people’s got it
and this people’s spreadin’ it around!
II’ll either have it , or I’ve had it!
Hello, everybody!
My game ‘s Votes. What’s yours?
How do you like them electorals Mr Chesebro!
Hold your hats and hallelujah.
MAGAs gonna show it to you.
Ready or not, shhh, here comes MAGA
MAGAs talkin’ loud.
MAGAs doin’ fine.
MAGAs gettin’ hot.
MAGAS goin’ stong.
MAGAs movin’ on.
MAGAs not alone.
MAGA doesn’t care.
MAGAs lettin’ loose.
MAGAs got the stuff.
MAGAs lettin’ go.
MAGA
MAGAs got the stuff.
MAGAs gotta move.
MAGAs gotta go.
MAGA? MAGA?
J6-ers gotta be let go.
Why did I do it?
What did it get me?
Scrapbooks full of me in the background.
Give ’em love and what does it get ya?
What does it get ya?
One quick look as each of ’em leaves you.
All your life and what does it get ya?
Thanks a lot and out with the garbage,
They take pleas and you’re battin’ zero.
I had a dream.
I dreamed it for you, Jenna
It wasn’t for me, Rudy
And if it wasn’t for me
then where would you be,
Miss Kraken Sydney
Well, someone tell me, when is it my turn?
Don’t I get a dream for myself?
Starting now it’s gonna be my turn.
Gangway, world, get off of my runway!
Starting now I bat a thousand!
This time, boys, I’m taking the polls and
Everything’s coming up voters !
Everything’s coming up voters !
Everything’s coming up voters
this time for me!
For me! For me! For me! For me! For me!
For me!
https://youtu.be/rv1p1Vea0iY
At this point, all I want to know is if the Secret Service will interfere if the court ever/finally decides to hold Trump in contempt and escort him to jail.
I’m not sure how that would be much different than medics transporting him to a hospital if he became incapacitated for some reason. In either case, there is no threat of harm from the EMT or LEO.
They will not interfere at all.
I am certain that the Secret Service has gamed out all kinds of “what do we do if . . .?” scenarios regarding Trump, including him being incarcerated.
We may be laughing at this farce, but unfortunately all the mud slinging might be working as intended. According to polls from this past fall, a majority of the public, including a majority of independents, thinks Biden Sr. had or may have had shady involvement in his son’s business dealings. At least one poll from last month shows half of Americans approving of the impeachment “inquiry,” and another showed half believing Jr. is receiving preferential treatment by authorities.
This is the same playbook as with H Clinton and the butter emails: throw up enough smoke, and the lazy, clickbait-driven, stenographer media and the low information voters will conclude there must be fire. This contributes to the “both sides do it” cynicism that suppresses turnout by swing voters and enhances the impact of more committed and ideological voters, where the right has an advantage. They don’t have to convince the uncommitted voters that Trump is good, they just have to convince them his opponent isn’t enough of an improvement to bother showing up to vote for. It worked in 2016.
I couldn’t find more recent polls on the public’s view of the Hunt for Hunter’s Dick Pics, so I suppose it’s possible that those numbers have improved with the intervening few months of empty flailing from House Republicans. But I wouldn’t bet on it. I’d love to see data that suggests I’m wrong.
Here’s a recent poll on the popularity of the two main candidates:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-trump-tied-outset-us-election-year-reutersipsos-poll-2024-01-10/
What the poll’s graph does not capture is that independents aren’t as happy with Trump as they are with Biden, even if they haven’t decided who to vote for yet.
Every Sci fi like scenario has a key that unlocks the method to defeat Zuul.
And I think, in all modesty, that I have found it.
If we can convince Taylor Swift to dump that loser Kelce and date Hunter Biden we would end this now.
I’ll settle for her hearty electioneering for Joe Biden.
I assume “that loser Kelce” is snark.
that made me spit my coffee out!
she can’t date Hunter, he’s married again and he is too old.
Ask the current VP, and the men who are former VPs, including the current President, does the President have immunity if he incites a mob to attempt to kill the VP? No more abstractions, please.
This.
Letter from Abbe Lowell to Comer today, arguing “the November 8 and 9, 2023, deposition subpoenas to Mr. Biden and the contempt resolutions approved by your committees on January 10, 2024, based on those subpoenas were and are legally invalid,” and stating “If you issue a new proper subpoena, now that there is a duly authorized impeachment inquiry, Mr. Biden will comply for a hearing or deposition. We will accept such a subpoena on Mr. Biden’s behalf.”:
https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/letter-from-a-lowell-to-chairmen-comer-and-jordan-hunter-biden-contempt-subpoenas-january-12-2024.pdf
It’s an awesome way to point out how much time and nonsense these bozos have wasted at the public and the Republic’s expense.