That’s Why They Call It “Domestic” Surveillance

One of my favorite parts in the EFF brief arguing that the retroactive immunity passed by Congress last year is unconstitutional is their response to the telecom brief’s claim that the President has inherent authority over foreign affairs, and so doesn’t need specific details regarding which telecoms should get immunity for having broken the law on President Bush’s orders.

EFF points out that, if this were just about foreign affairs, we wouldn’t be here.

Nor can the standardless delegation of section 802 be justified, as the carriers suggest (Carriers’ Br. at 3-6), by reference to cases involving the President’s exercise of inherent constitutional power over foreign relations with other nations or his inherent power to regulate and control the military forces. First, despite the efforts of the government and the carriers to blur the difference, the President’s inherent powers over foreign relations and the military do not extend to the warrantless dragnet electronic surveillance and interception within the United States of the domestic communications of millions of American citizens who have no connection to any foreign power. The President has no inherent constitutional authority to conduct such activities, as this Court has held, Hepting v. AT&T Corp., 439 F. Supp.2d 974, 1006 (N.D. Cal. 2006); see also In re Nat’l Security Agency Telecom. Records Litig., 564 F. Supp.2d 1109, 1121 (N.D. Cal. 2008), nor to order the courts to terminate litigation challenging such activities.

This is about domestic surveillance, not foreign intelligence, dummies.

Now, we know that the Bush Administration did, at one point, claim its inherent authority tied to foreign affairs extends right into the apartment buildings of average Americans.

The memorandum, which was directed to White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales and Defense Department General Counsel William J. Haynes, addresses whether the president has constitutional or statutory authority to use military force inside the United States in terrorism-related situations and, if so, whether such domestic military operations would be barredby either the Fourth Amendment or the federal Posse Comitatus statute. Examples of the type of force considered for purposes of the analysis include, but are not limited to: (1) destroying civilian aircraft that are believed to have been hijacked; (2) deploying troops to control traffic in and out of a major American city; (3) seizing or attacking civilian property, such as apartment buildings, office complexes, or ships, believed to contain terrorism suspects; and, (4) using military-level eavesdropping and surveillance technology on domestic targets.

Mr. Yoo and Mr. Delahunty concluded that both Article II of the Constitution and the 9/11 use of force resolution would authorize these types of domestic military operations (even though Congress had expressly rejected language proposed by the Administration for the AUMF that would have authorized domestic military operations).292 The memorandum also contains extended discussion of a hypothetical example which posits that a domestic military commander has received information, not rising to the level of probable cause, suggesting that a terrorist has hidden inside an apartment building and may possess weapons of mass destruction. According to the memorandum, not only does the Constitution permit the commander to seize the building, detain everyone found inside, and then interrogate them – all without obtaining any sort of warrant – but information gathered by military commanders in this way could used for criminal prosecution purposes as long as the primary reason for the seizure was the military fight against terrorism and not law enforcement. This memorandum was referenced in a subsequent OLC memorandum for the legal conclusion “that the Fourth Amendment had no application to domestic military operations.”293 [my emphasis]

But this particular opinion stands out, even among John Yoo’s other crappy opinions, for its sheer bogosity. The Obama Administration really doesn’t want to rely on that crappery (indeed, the Obama Administration brief was more careful to claim the Executive had certain powers over foreign affairs and national security). 

And ultimately, so long as we’re discussing lawsuits taken by American citizens against telecoms for illegally wiretapping them in a domestic context, the inherent authority argument rests on really shaky ground.

image_print
20 replies
  1. perris says:

    has anyone addressed the “denial of due process” to those damaged by “retro-active imunity”

    how can congress possibly award “retro active immunity” to someone who stole from a party that is not congress”

    for instance, if a telecom stole my invention, how can congress say;

    “you can’t get it back”

    I need due process and I don’t think congress can take it away

    • Jkat says:

      well ..actually in my experience ad in my knowledge of the law ..[IANAL] .. what appears to be the facts are that while we are guaranteed certain rights under the constitution .. that is no bar which prevents the gub’mint from “taking ” them ..

      but ..while we may not be able to prevent those rights being taken in the first instance .. the courts do have the poer to restore them to us ..

      IIRC .. the seminal case in this regard is something like grizwald v. oh .. but if that’s not correct .. i’m sure one of the legal eagles will correct me ..

  2. Arbusto says:

    Shaky ground or not, our second in a row War President wants him some inherent authority and unitary privilege, thus his continued backing of inane legal stances.

  3. FlakeyFoont says:

    EW, I’m a bit confused by your first paragraph. Who are you referring to that supposedly, “doesn’t need specific details regarding which telecoms should get immunity?” President Bush? Congress, when they granted the immunity? The telecom lawyers? I always appreciate your “in other words…” summaries that distill your arguments down for dummies like me.

    • emptywheel says:

      The Attorney General. The argument both sides are debate is whether or not the law as passed gave the AG enough direction such that he wasn’t in the position of arbitrarily making law.

      And thanks for the feedback on the “in other words.” Someone teased me about that a few weeks ago and I’ve been trying to cut back. But if they’re useful, I’ll un-cut back.

  4. Petrocelli says:

    “This is about domestic surveillance, not foreign intelligence, dummies.”EW

    Hah, I’d love for them to hear this in person, along with your other comments.

  5. rapt says:

    Here is a piece of the part of bushco’s justification you quoted above:

    “as long as the primary reason for the seizure was the military fight against terrorism and not law enforcement.”

    I’ve been beating this terrorism label over the head for many months now, but I won’t stop until the opposition (you) agrees that it is pretty much all made-up hooey, designed and implemented by bush’sbossesco to create fear and subjugation.

    So legal arguments aside for now, the very fact that “terrorism” is used in this and many other justifications makes me stop and look carefully. A red flag if you will. We have Murrah and WTC here at home to look at, and quite a few other instances around the world, so lets look. The evidence indicates that these two at least, Murrah and WTC, were organized and executed by a deep-cover outfit led by exactly the same folks who then use the “terror” incident as a means to usurp power. NOT Mcveigh or 19 arabs.

    The clause I put in quotes above says, “The only reason we can do these things is that wicked scary terrorism that we created for you folks.”

    The first job then is to establish for once and all that the terrorism label is pure bullsheat. All crumbles after that, including any need to nitpick the law.

  6. Mary says:

    To be honest, I’m not sure there are simple or easy answers to some of the points in the Yoo memo:

    (

    1) destroying civilian aircraft that are believed to have been hijacked; (2) deploying troops to control traffic in and out of a major American city; (3) seizing or attacking civilian property, such as apartment buildings, office complexes, or ships, believed to contain terrorism suspects; and, (4) using military-level eavesdropping and surveillance technology on domestic targets.

    I guess the question of things like whether or not domestic planes with American passengers could be militarily shot from the sky in an exigent threat situation may have a bit of a toss up – but the eavesdropping/surveillance issue (and the seizing of civilian property, if it is the course followed bc circumstances are NOT so exigent as to require immediate destruction) are not toss ups, especially under a fact pattern where there was not a one-time, exigent circumstances related domestic military surveillance but instead there was a many year program of unremitting and wide scale surveillance.

    The Fourth Amendment issue was specifically addressed by the Sup Ct during the civil war and they held that the only time domestic use of military powers trump proceeding through the courts with constitutional protections is if there is a battlefield setting. Gov argued back that the whole country was at war, the nation was a battlefield, and that in a war where brother took up arms against brother, and non-uniformed saboteurs infiltrated themselves into quiet and tranquil hamlets, you had to recognize that everyplace, everywhere – it was all “the battlefield.”

    And the court pretty calmly and without hysterics said, nope – if the military is in a setting where courts are open and operating, that’s not a “battlefield” As best I remember, at no time post 9/11 did the US court system, or subparts thereof, grind to a standstill and cease to operate.

    This issue, though, of “the battlefield” and the Exec’s cic powers on the battlefield is why I have been so disgusted with both Holder and Kagan in their questioning by Graham. They both chirped cheerily that they agreed with him that we are “at war” and basically that everywhere is “the battlefield”

    http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..8432.story

    “Do you believe we are at war?” Graham asked.

    “I do, Senator,” Kagan replied.

    Graham cited the example of someone who is not carrying a gun or fighting on a battlefield. “If our intelligence agencies should capture someone in the Philippines that is suspected of financing Al Qaeda worldwide, would you consider that person part of the battlefield?” he asked. He added that he had asked the same question of Holder, who replied that he agreed that person was on the battlefield.

    “Do you agree with that?” the senator said.

    “I do,” Kagan replied.

    emph added

    So if a non-uniformed person in the Phillipines who is merely suspected by intelligence agencies who don’t have to make any showing to anyone is now, suddenly, per Kagan and Holder a “part of the battlefield” you have to follow that logic (or lack of) through. It meanst that some doofus or sadist or politically motivated schmuck who gets into an intelligence slot can decree anyone, anywhere, part of the “the battlefield” and that’s all it takes.

    I really don’t know why, with the budget problems, Obama didn’t just buy a couple of bobbleheads and name the AG and Solic Gen.

    • texasaggie says:

      “I guess the question of things like whether or not domestic planes with American passengers could be militarily shot from the sky in an exigent threat situation may have a bit of a toss up”

      There is good reason to believe that this is indeed what happened in PA. The pieces of the plane were scattered all over the countryside. There was an engine over a mile from where the main piece of the wreckage was. For that to have happened, the plane had to come apart in the air, not just when it hit the ground.

  7. bmaz says:

    I really don’t know why, with the budget problems, Obama didn’t just buy a couple of bobbleheads and name the AG and Solic Gen.

    Um, are you sure he didn’t? Okay, granted, it is a little harder to discern with Kagan since she doesn’t actually seem to have any courtroom experience to speak of at all…..

  8. Phoenix Woman says:

    How does the Al-Marri indictment fit into this?

    As I wrote in last week’s issue, Marri has been held for the past five years in indefinite executive detention in the U.S. Naval Consolidated brig in Charleston, South Carolina—despite having never stood trial or been convicted of any crime. But according to sources close to the case, a federal grand jury is meeting today in Peoria, Illinois, and may indict Marri on multiple terrorism charges, including providing material support for terrorism. Dean Boyd, a spokesman for the Justice Department on national-security issues, declined to comment, as did Marri’s lawyers.

    An indictment would signal a major shift in legal policy from the Bush years. It would also fulfill President Obama’s campaign pledge to restore traditional American legal practices by treating terror suspects as common criminals, rather than stripping them of standard legal rights and classifying them neither as criminal defendants nor prisoners of war.

Comments are closed.