The al-Haramain Case Stays On Track

It was late and welcome news Friday afternoon when Judge Vaughn Walker’s decision came in. Marcy already gave some cogent analysis on where the punches were pulled in the decision and where they landed. I actually think (yes, yes, I know I am usually the voice of pessimism) that the punches landing will prove to far outweigh those pulled.

First, and foremost, Judge Walker has kept the suit alive in the face of all the adversity thrown in his path by both the Bush/Cheney Administration and, now, that of Obama. This fact alone entitles Judge Walker to a king’s ransom of gratitude from anybody that gives a tinker’s damn about the rule of law and the Fourth Amendment, because Obama has been following Bush in pulling every stunt in the bag out to defeat the right of citizens to hold their government accountable for the illegal and unconstitutional acts it perpetrates on them. Take the recent unconscionable assertion of sovereign immunity for instance. Please.

The seminal importance of Walker’s decision to proceed simply cannot be overstated. It is, quite simply, a ruling by a Federal court, albeit it a preliminary one, that the "Bush Program" was illegal. And keep in mind that it is not just the al-Haramain case that hangs in the balance of this determination, but potentially all the consolidated cases, including Jewell, too. As Marcy has explained, the ability of the of the plaintiffs in the remaining consolidated cases to establish the existence of illegal surveillance, separate and distinct from al-Haramain, may be effectively non-existent due to the state secrets assertion (even discounting the heinously bogus sovereign immunity assertion) made by Bush/Cheney and now Obama. In the face of the state secrets claim there is no way for the plaintiffs to establish standing as plaintiffs having been illegally surveilled. Because of "the sealed document", in the form of a surveillance log that was inappropriately forwarded to al-Haramain’s attorneys, the plaintiffs in al-Haramain have the ability to establish directly illegal surveillance.

So there is that, but there is also the process that Judge Walker has laid out in order to carry the action forward down the tracks. Having reviewed the sealed document, and the other filings made under seal (including those detailing the notorious "inaccurate information" previously lodged by the Bush administration), and determined that the case will proceed, there has to be a path crafted to allow the case to proceed and still protect the secrecy of information that is legitimately national security protected. As Marcy said:

In other words, Walker has said, "I’ve read the secret evidence in this case and now I want you guys to figure out how to move foward with this case."

Which pretty much implies that, having read the evidence, Walker believes it will move forward.

Oh yeah, this case is moving forward alright, and Walker has point blankedly reminded that neither he nor the 9th Circuit will permit any further interlocutory appeals (interim appeals before the case has reached a final judgment) on the core issues of his jurisdiction over the case and the sufficiency of the claim going forward. The judge has read the secret evidence and is letting the world know that he has found it compelling enough to establish, in at least a prima facie manner, that illegal surveillance has occurred. Not a kook, not dirty left wing bloggers, a real live federal jurist believes that George Bush and Dick Cheney committed illegal acts with their surveillance program. It can no longer ever be called a baseless allegation anymore; in fact, the presumption from now on should be that their program was illegal and unconstitutional.

So, what happens now? Walker reiterates that he will go forward with litigation of standing (and it is crystal clear that Walker believes standing exists). The DOJ is ordered to meet and confer with the plaintiffs, with the goal of submitting to Walker, by May 8, a stipulated protective order establishing protocols for litigating standing under secure conditions for the sealed documents and sensitive information. Don’t let the droll legal language and brevity of the order fool you, this is huge; and hugely problematic for the government and their reliance on the FISA Amendments Act retroactive immunity provisions.

Walker’s order is also crafted so narrowly as to make it pretty much non-appealable. The DOJ will have to decide whether to continue stonewalling Walker, now that the DOJ has no recourse to the Ninth Circuit. You have to wonder what Walker will do if the DOJ continues to stonewall him. No doubt the DOJ is wondering the very same thing. I have an inkling that he is loaded for bear and ready for their intransigence. Planning and thinking two steps ahead of the DOJ has become Vaughn Walker’s hallmark. And keep in mind that Federal judges have been getting very testy with the DOJ in this area lately, witness Judge Emmett Sullivan in the Stevens case:

"How can this court have any confidence whatsoever in the United States government to comply with its obligations and to be truthful to the court?"

The DOJ’s chickens of perfidy have come home to roost in a hornet’s nest. How tragic; how deserved.

Now, I want to address one other aspect of Walker’s order that I think has been overlooked in the early analysis. Walker has not just told the respective parties to get together and determine how to move forward, he has given them a specific path to do so. And it is a path that is already established and accepted by the DC Federal Court in a case with certain national security implications:

The United States District Court for the District of Columbia has successfully employed protective orders in the In Re Guantánamo Bay Detainee Litigation, D DC No Misc 08-0442 TFH, even providing for the use of top secret/sensitive compartmented information (TS/SCI). See, for example, the documents at docket numbers 409 and 1481 in that matter. The United States has advanced no argument that would suggest a reason why the court’s use of a protective order in instant matter modeled on those in use in the Guantánamo Bay would not adequately protect the classified information at issue here.

Interesting that the courts are doing what the Congress is too lame to get accomplished. It is long past time that a process similar to the Classified Information Procedures Act (CIPA) be devised for civil cases in addition to criminal, and Judge Walker has clearly taken it upon himself to forge his own.

It could be argued that Judge Walker engaged in a bit of a punt in ordering the parties to attempt to form an agreement on how to proceed when they have been at diametrical loggerheads on the issue from the get go. That said, I think it was a necessary step for the sake of the record going forward. If the court had not given the parties an opportunity to negotiate and fashion a stipulation, that may well have created a sore spot as far as the appearance of fairness when the case really is viewed from the vantage of appeal after it truly is done and over. It may be tedious and time consuming to the rest of us, but Judge Walker is, as he has been all along, setting this up masterfully.

Lastly, note that Judge Walker gave the return date for a stipulation to protect sensitive evidence and information, and put the parties on a relative short leash:

The parties shall submit to the court a stipulated protective order on or before May 8, 2009. If the parties are unable to agree on all terms, they shall jointly submit a document containing all agreed terms together with a document setting forth the terms about which they are unable to reach agreement and the respective positions of the parties with regard to each such term.

Marcy was, I believe, dead on when she opined that Walker was setting the various "interlocking" cases that comprise the consolidated cases lodged in Judge Walker’s court up to be managed as a whole. Just so that it is clear, al-Haramain, as a case, exists in its own cause of action and as part of the "consolidated cases" docket. Yesterday’s order was captioned in the consolidated cases docket initially (although I suspect it will eventually be docketed under the separate al-Haramain cause as well). At any rate here is another recent scheduling docket entry under the consolidated cases:

Set Schedule/Time for Hearing: Opposition to the United States’ motion for summary judgment in the State Cases – 3/20/2009. United States Replies in support or its motion and Telecomm carrier defendants Respond to the govt’s motion and any Responses thereto – 4/9/2009. Sur-reply of the State Officials – 4/23/2009. Hearing on the United States’ Motion set for 5/7/2009 at 10:30 AM in Courtroom 6, 17th Floor, San Francisco. (cgk, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 3/3/2009)

So Vaughn Walker has given the al-Haramain litigants 24 hours after the threshold hearings on the consolidated cases to come up with a stipulation. Yeah, I would say he is lining his ducks up; you betcha. It has been a wonderful thing to watch Judge Vaughn Walker ride herd on this the various consolidated cases and be the sole and silent sentry protecting the rule of law and the Constitution for the people.

As a parting shot, remember the title to the post? The al-Haramain Case Stays On Track. Just like a train. Atrios would love this, al-Haramain really has, or is, a modern train. Go figure.

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104 replies
  1. Petrocelli says:

    It has been equally amazing to see this unfold through your eyes.

    Great thanks to you & Marcy !

  2. bobschacht says:

    Thanks for your analysis, bmaz! Judge Walker’s path has been a marvel to behold, and your explanations help me understand what’s happening.

    I’m beginning to have hope for the old saw that the wheels of justice may grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine.

    I can see the beads of sweat forming on Hayden’s bald pate now.

    Bob in HI

  3. Loo Hoo. says:

    Thanks, bmaz, and cheers to Judge Walker.

    Because of “the sealed document”, in the form of a surveillance log that was inappropriately forwarded to al-Haramain’s attorneys, the plaintiffs in al-Haramain have the ability to establish directly illegal surveillance.

    Any chance that this was an on-purpose inappropriately forwarded document? I keep hoping there were heros in the Bush Justice Dept.

    • bmaz says:

      Yeah, there actually is a fair chance, maybe 50:50, maybe better, that it was intentional. To be honest though, there are a couple of different ways that could occur if it did, and i am not sure that the person was necessarily heroic. It is at least feasible that it was a real mole.

    • sojourner says:

      I, too, keep hoping that there were some “heroes” in the Bush DOJ, and maybe they will come forth in the future… Regardless, I think Bmaz has done himself proud in his analysis!

      As for Marcy in her previous post, she seems to forget all the other times that she has been spot on — and I am not altogether sure that she missed this one.

      Great going all!!

  4. Peterr says:

    The judge has read the secret evidence and is letting the world know that he has found it compelling enough to establish, in at least a prima facie manner, that illegal surveillance has occurred.

    Yep.

    He’s saying “I’ve been persuaded that there is enough of a record here to say that the plaintiffs can bring this before a jury.” This is no frivolous lawsuit, says Walker, nor is this a fishing expedition.

    Jury selection will be something else, when we get to that point. But make no mistake: thanks to Judge Walker’s latest ruling, we are going to get to that point.

  5. pdaly says:

    and yes, Cheers to Judge Walker.

    Maybe he could help search for an independent prosecutor when the time comes for investigating unrelated government business like war crimes… Here’s hoping.

  6. MadDog says:

    Totally OT – Just in case anyone would want to know, the NYT finally caught on to EW’s blockbuster:

    Memo Says Prisoner Was Waterboarded 183 Times

    Oh, and yeah, the NYT was decent enough to give EW (what, a fookin’ blogger?) credit:

    …The sentences in the 2005 memo including the number of times the two men were waterboarded appear to be redacted from some copies of the memo but are visible in others. Initial news reports about the memos in The New York Times and other publications did not include the numbers, but several bloggers, including Marcy Wheeler of the emptywheel blog, discovered the numbers over the weekend

    (My Bold)

    Ta Marcy for all you do!

    Next, I think we need to show the NYT how to include a link. You know, like to EW’s post?

    • Peterr says:

      The number “183″ was good enough for their headline, but the credit for the number was left until the next to the last paragraph.

      I’m not impressed with the Times’ decency.

      • MadDog says:

        Heh! Only the Shadow knows. *g*

        Given that it was the headliner at The Huffington Post this morning, Andrew Sullivan has made it a post several times today, Digby has done the same, it was only a matter of time that the NYT stumbled across it.

            • bobschacht says:

              Yup, and I bet there are bunch more blogs where it showed up too.

              I’m trying to keep score, and probably not succeeding. Note: Some of these are mere links, but some of those are headlines on front pages; others involve commentary and kudos. Here’s my lineup so far.

              The original now-famous post By: emptywheel Saturday April 18, 2009 11:57 am was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Was Waterboarded 183 Times in One Month. Now my list:

              Think Progress opened an entire thread devoted to this post.

              For a while, this post was the biggest headline over at Raw Story

              This story is still a headline on the front page on Huffington Post, with a link pointing back to Marcy’s post.

              The 183-times thread is still the lead article (”Torture x 183″) over at First Draft at the moment, too.

              And now even by Paul Krugman’s (April 19, 2009, 3:25 pm) The Conscience of a Liberal column, with the headline, 183, and NY Times’ SCOTT SHANE’s Memo Says Prisoner Was Waterboarded 183 Times .

              Oh, and then there’s dday on Digby’s blogspot writing about The Chief Of Staff Of Looking Forward Not Backward, with these bon mots, which include a reference and link to Marcy’s post:

              Never mind the moral backflips you have to make to let people off the hook for torture. Never mind the fact that the interrogators did not even follow the guidelines and meager safeguards set out in the OLC memos – Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in one month. Let’s put all of that aside for a second. Rahm Emanuel is calling on the President and the Justice Department to willingly break the law.

              And then Andrew Sullivan, too, in his The Daily Dish.

              I took time off to see a movie with my wife, so by now its EPU time and there’s probably more citations to add.

              Bob in HI

        • MadDog says:

          The thing that makes me giggle, is the NYT’s lame explanation about why they missed it:

          …The sentences in the 2005 memo including the number of times the two men were waterboarded appear to be redacted from some copies of the memo but are visible in others. Initial news reports about the memos in The New York Times and other publications did not include the numbers…

          Tis nothing but bullshit!

          It wasn’t redacted on any of the instances of the memo. It was merely the fact that the NYT’s own screwed-up PDF conversion cutoff the last 20 pages of the particular OLC memo just like I mentioned yesteray.

          • MadDog says:

            And btw, I guess the NYT did read my comment from yesterday about their own screwed-up PDF conversion that cutoff the last 20 pages of the particular OLC memo, because the NYT’s version of the OLC memos now has been “fixed” to include those missing 20 pages.

            And yes, the “fixed” NYT version does not show that “redaction” they claimed tonight in their acticle. *g*

          • pdaly says:

            So the question is whether no one at the NY Times even read the original (laziness?),
            or someone at the NY Times did in fact read the original and created a hoped for memory hole (wantonness) for unsuspecting readers.

            It certainly gives the NY Times motto “All the news that’s fit to print” a clearer meaning.

            • MadDog says:

              My guess is that they only read the online version posted at their own site, and never bothered to read the hard-copy of the OLC memos.

              After all, this is the computer age. Nobody, but nobody, reads the original paper copies, doncha know? *g*

          • emptywheel says:

            Yep. Just blogged you to that effect.

            Though Michael Hayden did claim that number was still classified today.

            WALLACE: But here, I think, is the question that some of the critics, some of the people who don’t like what was done, would say. The international standard is cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.

            The CIA standard is treatment that would shock the conscience. According to a report that’s out today — and maybe you can confirm this. Is it true that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in one month?

            HAYDEN: The president has made public some aspects of the CIA interrogation program. Other aspects he has not. And these — this is one of the operational details that has not been declassified, so I’m not at liberty to talk about it.

            So maybe he was reading from the NYT’s “redacted” copy.

            • MadDog says:

              Mikey Hayden apparently can’t get his facts straight even now. *g*

              I betcha he still believes there is no “Probable Cause” requirement in the 4th Amendment.

              And this was the guy who was in charge of the warrantless wiretapping that never, ever was going to be a dragnet, and never, ever was going to capture domestic communications.

              Physically, he shares a resemblance to Colonel Klink of Hogan’s Heroes. I’m starting to believe that the resemblance is more than physical. *g*

  7. WilliamOckham says:

    I’ve been trying to map out the end game on the al-Haramain case since this ruling. Maybe bmaz and the rest of the lawyers who hang out here can check my logic. As I understand it, Judge Walker has ruled that if you can establish standing for FISA, then FISA pierces the ’state secrets’ barrier to pursuing the case. Shouldn’t we be trying to figure out how to establish standing?

    • Peterr says:

      From day one, standing has been the big headache. You can’t engage in discovery if you can’t prove you’ve been wiretapped, but you can’t prove you’ve been wiretapped without discovery. Now, however, we’ve got a roadmap for proving standing.

      Step one: get the DOJ to inadvertently hand you a classified document . . .

    • bmaz says:

      I don’t think Vaughn Walker is going to have any problem finding standing, he is simply being detailed about adhering to sequence and process in doing so; were he to not do so, he might open a path to another interlocutory appeal. He isn’t going to do that. I think the better question will be how discovery is designed to play out and how expansive it will be. I am personally hoping they can get into whether or not there are the stupid indemnification agreements I have been harping on since the last of forever. Among other things.

    • emptywheel says:

      NAL

      But as I said on Friday. I think he figured out he screwed up in a teeny way in January by mixing standing and classification issues. And he’s gearing up to both rule that AH has standing and to use his review of the classified filings in other cases–like Jewel.

      But that’s my wildarsed opinion.

  8. AZ Matt says:

    Marcy is a National Treasure.

    Now an OT bmaz: Arpaio to miss border hearing to appear in TV comedy show (Colbert)

    Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio won’t be attending Monday’s border-violence hearing with local and national political figures because of a scheduling conflict.

    That conflict’s name? Stephen Colbert.

    Arpaio will appear on the stone-faced comic’s right-wing parody show Monday in an episode that airs that same evening.

  9. MadDog says:

    Back on topic, a most excellent post on the al-Haramain case bmaz!

    While you were camping out in that VW Bug Corvette that EW rented for you on EFF watch, did you hear anything about progress in the Hepting v. AT&T case?

    It seems we’ve been waiting for a bit on Judge Walker’s ruling regarding retroactive immunity.

    • bmaz says:

      There are (briefly mentioned in the post) oral arguments and/or hearings scheduled in early May. Hope he doesn’t take as long for an opinion this time.

      • MadDog says:

        I wasn’t sure whether that was just for the MDL (Multi-District Litigation) or had some direct relation to the Hepting v. AT&T case.

  10. Mary says:

    Congrats to Marcy on the NYT acknowledgment (even if it was a bit cya for them)

    Thanks for this piece too bmaz. Some of the Judges do seem to be focusing on how to try to fix some of the mess that Obama is punting on. I really pricked my ears some when Sullivan was talling gov in the Batarfi case that he wanted to know how the “problem” there was interconnected, if at all, with another problem in the GITMO cases that another Judge had told Gov to get straightened out and Sullivan indicated a likelihood that something was going to be declassified in that case.

    The GITMO judges have such intertwined issues there is some coordination going on and guess who with? Judge Lamberth. An ex-FISCt Chief Judge who also thought the program was unconstitutional and oh yeah, that DOJ was fibby with him about following his firewall orders. So it will be lovely to hear Gov ante up with why Lamberth’s coordination on protective orders for GITMO cases won’t work for Judge Walker’s cases too.

    I’m almost beyond caring how the cases come out (not beyond, just “almost” beyond) as long as someone, somewhere in the Judicial system, finally kicks some butt on these DOJ lawyers lying and misrepresenting and violating professional responsiblities left and right. Lamberth, Sullivan, Walker, Kollar-Kotelly, Kessler (who back in 06 was already saying, in connection with a GITMO hunger strike case, “I know it’s a sad day when a federal judge has to ask a DOJ attorney this, but I’m asking you — why should I believe them?” Kessler asked Justice Department attorney Terry Henry.) etc – at least maybe they will start to do what no one in DOj seems to have had the least inerest in doing – making the lawyers tell the truth to the court or FACE CONSEQUENCES.

    On an OT – one of the other sad aspects of Holder and Obama both publically announcing that they won’t be pursuing the CIA torturers is the disinterested acceptance of that by the rank and file of DOJ. It really is a failed instiatution.

  11. posaune says:

    bmaz and ew: there’s no way to count how much you are appreciated: courage, intelligence, integrity. that’s a patriot!

    • acquarius74 says:

      Good to ’see’ you again, posaune. I really wish you would share your mother’s diary with us in some form. (some things I never forget…)

  12. JThomason says:

    Nice post. BTW I am all for a Taos (conventional spar up to Angel Fire OK)to Sedona line that runs at 450 km/hr. (Sen. Udall take note if you’re checking in here on Al Haramain developments).

      • MadDog says:

        Good question!

        Anybody want to bet me that KSM waterboard 183 times in a month is going to be a primo topic on the cable shows tomorrow?

        I’m betting that Tweety will be on it, as well as KO and Rachel.

        Now if we could just figure out how to get EW on Rachel’s show…

        • Loo Hoo. says:

          Yeah. She isn’t here, so maybe she’s packing. (wink!, as freep says) I don’t want a one minute dealio, though. I’m hoping she’s got 15 minutes with a panel of smart folks or a one-on-one.

          Plus, airfare and all arrangements.

  13. JThomason says:

    I am not sure what the big deal is about the NYT. In my book anybody with any sense just comes here first.

  14. MadDog says:

    Time for me to count those sheep. I sure hope there’s only 2 or 3 of them. I get tired counting more than that. *g*

    Night all!

  15. MadDog says:

    Oh fook me, says Jane Harmon!

    Per sponson’s comment:

    CQ reports that Rep. Jane Harman was caught on an NSA wiretap conspiring with the two AIPAC lobbyists accused of spying. Furthermore, they go on to report that Gonzales and Negroponte squashed any investigation/prosecution of Harman, in part because she went to bat for the illegal domestic spying program with the New York Times, helping to delay the story in 2004. Gonzales obstructed justice in order to help a key Bush ally, who had helped both cover up domestic spying and by doing so helped Bush win the 2004 election. Don’t forget that Harman also defended waterboarding as well.

    And with that, I bid ya’ll good night!

    • Hmmm says:

      OT — Holy crossing the beams, Batman. Someone is leaking that Jane was in 2004 forced by the Gonzales DoJ… into pressuring the NYT to delay the warrantless wiretapping story… using as leverage her secret offer caught on NSA wiretaps… to lobby DoJ to get the charges against accused AIPAC spies Rosen and Weissman reduced. She successfully pressured the NYT, and was never prosecuted. Goss, Negroponte, Hastert, and Pelosi all knew at the time. DoJ considered Harman’s offer to interfere a “completed crime”.

      Why this leak now? Who is trying to neutralize whom here?

      • JThomason says:

        You know what that sounds like? That sounds like illegally wiretapping a congresswoman then extorting her to do unsavory political dirty work.

        • Hmmm says:

          OT — True, but dirty all around if you ask me. Jane ended the conversation where she offered to help the AIPAC guys with “This conversation doesn’t exist.”

          • JThomason says:

            Didn’t mean to be snarky, and I am aware of developments with Domenici and Heather Wilson and Iglasias, but a Congress critter intervening in a prosecution seems like a stretch.

            • Hmmm says:

              No snark taken, and obviously I can’t vouch, but from the story they say they have a recording of her. In fact there’s a rather brusque quote from someone who’s heard the tape, on Jane’s denial: “Bullshit.” Go read the story, it’s “fun”.

              Also now frontpaging at TPM and Ye Olde Large Orange Beelzebub.

        • MarkH says:

          Typical crazy Bushie behavior: you’ve been caught with the 183 water-boardings story, so you reveal that you illegally wiretapped and blackmailed a Dem Congresswoman to distract people’s attention from the earlier story.

  16. rkilowatt says:

    EW…you create such huge, wanted and needed effects; the waves I’m sure have made you #1 inside The NewYorkTimes on scuttlebutt lines…enough to force the publisher to grudgingly acknowledge you or have to confront a rebellion in ranks.

    Thanks to you and all contributors here for demonstrating how net-blogs expose MSM perfidy. Awesome.

  17. JThomason says:

    Not to be presumptuous or that its my call but I say Winona Ryder gets the
    lead in Emptywheel: The Marcy Wheeler Story.

    • bmaz says:

      Naw, Ashley Judd.

      By the way, can you get your Taos to Sedona choo choo to swing down here to Phoenix so I can join you?

      Now, I am off to NYT as suggested for commenting.

      • JThomason says:

        I will take that as an “overruled!.” What?! I would have thought Phoenix to Sedona would already have high speed service. I mean if its good enough for Saudi Arabia its good enough for Arizona!

  18. Loo Hoo. says:

    My comment is still in moderation. Someone must have thought better of letting Americans speak.

  19. rkilowatt says:

    … The only decent thing for America to do, now, is to pressure the German government to grand post-mortem pardons to all the Nazis wrongfully convicted by the Nuremberg tribunal. It appears they were all innocent.

    And to think I was worried that Obama would trash all the gains made by the Bush administration.

    Moral relativity rocks!

    Read it at http://www.belacquajones.blogspot.com

    • Hmmm says:

      OT — I was thinking maybe we could get Germany to run a Nürnberg-style trial for us. Only over here this time, you know, just to even it up. Since they hosted last time and all.

      (Y’know, bmaz has a very important post here that we’ve all been gooping up all evening long — not least me. Sorry bmaz!)

        • acquarius74 says:

          Thank you, bmaz, for all your ‘real work’ in helping us understand the really important decisions being made regarding the laws we are all supposed to abide by. If we can just get our Justice Dept cleaned up, our country can make it through whatever else comes. Judge Walker gives me hope that someday that may be possible.

    • bmaz says:

      Note there are not one, but two crimes here. The original crime was with the AIPC representative, and I agree it was completed. But there is also very arguably a completed crime, perhaps more than one, in the leveraged agreement by Gonzales not to go after Harman in return for critical cover for a separate illegal act, to wit the illegal wiretapping. Compare and contrast the honest services fraud and criminality alleged against Blagojevich. Quid. pro. quo.

      • Hmmm says:

        Yeah, couldn’t stay away because I came to the same conclusion. Two wrongs here. Congressional and IC leadership already knew about all of it. So who benefits from the public disclosure, coming now? Is this the IC striking back at the D’s, saying “If you make us pay for what was done, then we’ll make you pay too.”? Starting with Harmon as low-hanging fruit, and also thus implicating the various Gangs of 4, 8, etc.?

  20. worldwidehappiness says:

    bmaz,

    Can this ever get to the point where Walker says telco immunity is bogus and those who authorised it are corrupt?

  21. Anastasius says:

    Does someone know which positions Harman had back then and why Gonzo knew she would reliably come out out in defense of the program?

    • Hmmm says:

      Put differently: What else, besides leaning on NYT, did the Bush administration lean on Jane to do for them?

  22. BayStateLibrul says:

    Marathon Monday.
    Boston Billy
    and Marcy mentioned in the morning NT Times.
    Great work EW, Bmaz, and contributing members of FDL..
    What a day break

  23. klynn says:

    BTW EW

    Even though attention is mostly given to newspaper blogs, your 183 post can be nominated for a Pulitzer…I think you earned one on Saturday.

  24. scribe says:

    The basic reason Walker is requiring a stipulated protective order is in two parts.
    The first part – as to those parts the parties agree to – is that a stipulation is not appealable. It is a fundamental of appellate law everywhere that a party can only appeal from an order or judgment, and only those orders and judgments which make the party an ”aggrieved party” are appealable. In other words, you can only appeal from orders which went against you. The simplest example is if, during a trial, the judge overrules your objection to a particular piece of evidence or testimony. You can appeal from that, saying the judge overruling the objection was erroneous. If, OTOH, the judge sustains your objection, that means he has ruled in your favor. As a matter of definition, you cannot be aggrieved by a ruling in your favor and therefore cannot appeal from it.
    In the case of a stipulated order, i.e., one founded in a stipulation, it is not appealable because a stipulation is an agreement. In other words, you cannot be aggrieved (to support an appeal) if you agreed to that which you now say aggrieves you. It’s about the same as a settlement of a litigation: if you settle, you agree that a certain resolution is sufficient and acceptable to both parties. End of story – no one can be aggrieved by it.
    Clear? (NB – the whole ”only an aggrieved party can appeal” thing is a part of … standing doctrine.)
    The second part – requiring the parties to both identify where they disagree and, more importantly, why, is a bit more interesting. Walker is saying he does expect the parties will not be able to resolve all the issues between them. But, wanting them to identify why in essence makes them lay their cards on the table. Then, he can see where DoJ and the plaintiffs are coming from and craft his resolution of the open issues in such a way as to make them … unappealable.
    Crafty, but this is what judges do to work through settling cases. They maintain control of the progress and disposition of the case by pushing one side or the other into an unappealable situation.

  25. Wahrheit says:

    This is really encouraging in spite of the Obama DOJ channeling Addington. Maybe they need to open the windows and bring in a psychic cleanser.

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