Marc Ambinder’s Cave

platos_allegory_of_the_cave.thumbnail.jpgI was going to leave well enough alone–to take Marc Ambinder’s limited apology for labeling DFHs who believed the threat level system to be politicized as "gut haters," accept that he is at least thinking about these things, and move on.

But there are a couple of passages from his post that really embody the things that–as I said before-make his take on the threat levels an excellent example of what I think is wrong with Village journalism–and why. Ambinder has been describing his thought process for assessing the threat levels (both then as now) as akin to someone in Plato’s cave whose entire reality consists solely of the shadows he sees on the wall of the cave.

For example, take his revised assertion that it was correct to distrust the DFHs belief that the threat levels were politicized.

I still think that some journalists were right to be skeptical of the doubters at the time. I think that some journalists were correct to question how they arrived at the beliefs they arrived at.

I was trying to make this point in my earlier post, but thankfully Ambinder gives me a chance to do it again. Ambinder describes himself as assessing the threat levels by understanding what the different "sides" in the debate were saying, assessing their credibility, and then deciding which was right based (I guess) on each side’s credibility. He suggests that he was right to dismiss the DFHs’ claims–and therefore the assertion that the threat levels were politicized–based on the DFHs themselves. In neither Ambinder’s original column nor in his follow-up does Ambinder accept that there was an abundance of evidence that a journalist might use to assess the threat levels himself, to assess the claims the DFHs were making independently of their credibility or lack thereof. So to use the cave analogy, Ambinder was satisfied that–having identified that the shadow he was seeing on his cave wall came from we DFHs, he had no need to turn around and look at the thing itself, to assess it of his own accord.

Then there’s Ambinder actually weighing whether he can, now, conclude that the threat levels were politicized. In his follow-up post he weighs Ridge’s statement in the context of his squabbles with Rummy and Ashcroft.

Reading the excerpts from Tom Ridge’s book, it is not clear to me that he is actually arguing against interest, or that he is correct. No doubt, Don Rumsfeld and John Ashcroft had very strong views about terrorism, but simply because Ridge — who disagreed with Rumsfeld and Ashcroft about many, many things — had a feeling that Rumsfeld was trying to tinker with an election’s outcome does not, by a mile, prove anything.

Which follows up on his assertion that he couldn’t assess the terror levels in 2004 because he had no raw intelligence. 

And yet — we, too, weren’t privy to the intelligence. Information asymmetry is always going to exist, and, living as we do in a Democratic system, most journalists are going to give the government the benefit of some doubt, even having learned lessons about giving the government that benefit.

Now, I actually agree with Ambinder that Ridge’s statement is more limited than it has been made out to be. Ridge is talking about a debate that did not end up in an elevated threat level right on the eve of the elections. He’s not talking–as I originally assumed–of the elevated threat level during the DNC, which was one of the most egregious examples for DFHs. And it is true that Fran Townsend and John Ashcroft and Andy Card are pushing back on this.

So I’m not averse to evaluating the pissing match that is about to ensue about this claim–I’ve already started to do so myself.  

But what is interesting about Ambinder’s description of his own assessment–then, and now–of the threat levels is that he resorts to "official" sources, raw intelligence and representations from the players after the fact. But he still doesn’t engage with the set of data that we DFHs used to correctly interpret the threat assessments as politicized–the sheer number of elevated threat assessments, the timing of them, the absurdity of "threats" that were treated as valid. Or, if raw intelligence is your kind of thing, the process that we now know went into those threat assessments–the torture of Abu Zubaydah that resulted in those absurd threats. Or the torture of Hassan Ghul in August 2004 after he had been in custody since January of that year, just in time to support election eve scare-mongering. All of that is part of the process and evidence of politicization, but Ambinder doesn’t touch it.

My point being that Ambinder stubbornly clings to the data he considers valid–"official" sources. He not only appears to accept data solely from those official sources or from a false objective assessment of two sides of a debate, but he takes those official sources at their word. He treats, for example, the One Percent Doctrine on faith, without wondering how a guy really motivated exclusively by a "doctrine" that you have to prevent any possible threat, no matter how small, would turn around and out a CIA counter-proliferation expert because her husband was challenging him politically. Ambinder at least seems to interpret any Ridge versus Ashcroft and Rummy disagreements as an equal fight, without also noting the number of times Ashcroft created press circuses to announce the arrest of yet more "aspirational" terrorists or considering Rummy’s fondness both for institutional propaganda like the Rent-A-General program and for making assertions that fly in the face of all reality. Ambinder reifies "official" sources both to the exclusion of a whole bunch of other evidence and in such a way that limits his ability to at least publicly challenge the credibility of those official sources based on their past record. These official sources are filtered–both through the natural egotistical self-promotion and by the conditions (such as torture) that underlie them. That’s true of the Bush Administration and the Obama Administration and any other administration. But rather than try to sort through that–or consider other data, such as simple patterns built up over time–Ambinder throws up his hands and says, "information asymmetry," and concedes that professional journalists "give the government the benefit of some doubt" rather than try to fight through it or use alternative sources as well.

What Ambinder is doing–and the reason I think it fair to say his statements represent a lot of what is wrong with Village journalism–is following certain professional habits: the observation of the world through a constant on-the-one-side-on-the-other-side filter and, along with that, through the filter of official sources treated as such. Those professional habits have been incredibly well documented (one book that has influenced me on this is Timothy Cook’s Governing with the News). And those professional habits serve as a sort of self-imposed cave that permits journalists a view only on the shadows of reality, even after such a time when a more direct view is possible, even to lay observers. (Or perhaps especially to lay observers.)

Now that we’re beyond the "gut haters" slur and my own vulgar language, this is ultimately a discussion about two things. First, a tendency among Village journalists to use the on-the-one-side-on-the-other-side false objectivity as a way to–as Glenn documents–dismiss one perceived side of a debate without ever having to do the work of independently assessing the data they are using. And, more generally, this is another incident in a long series of them in which Village journalistic methods have proven to be catastrophically ineffective at assessing the truth.

The problem is Ambinder and most other Village journalists remain, obstinately, in their cave. On the health care debate, for example, the deathers got a hearing because they were defined as one of the two sides of the debate. Admittedly, they were (after several weeks) dismissed as cranks, but not before they started bringing guns to town halls. But the process of dismissing them as cranks has occupied the Village’s time, rather than an exposition of what is really in the existing health care plans. This was exacerbated by the treatment of Sarah Palin and Chuck Grassley as legitimate sources because there are "official" representatives of the Republican Party, when any assessment of what they were saying ought to disqualify them as legitimate voices (though admittedly, Obama bears a ton of responsibility for Grassley’s centrality in the debate).  So we’re getting this entire health care debate filtered through Ambinder’s cave, and we may well not get health care as a result, and a lot of people will unnecessarily die or go bankrupt as a consequence.

There’s a reason we DFHs got so outraged over this. Not just because we were dismissed as cranks when plenty of evidence showed (and still shows) we were right. But because the refusal of journalists to come out of their caves and report on the reality, rather than the filtered reality their professional habits leads them to favor, has real, awful consequences for our country and its citizens.

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62 replies
  1. allan says:

    I still think that some journalists were right to be skeptical of the doubters at the time. I think that some journalists were correct to question how they arrived at the beliefs they arrived at.

    What we DFHs need to understand, before slinking back in our PJs to the Cheeto breakfast in the basement,
    is that the Marc Ambinders, Andrew Sullivans and Charles Krauthammers are allowed to pretend that they can mindread their opponents, and we’re not.

  2. BillE says:

    Very will put, as usual. The false both sides equal but really screw who ever the gov’t wants has been around just way too long.

    But, I guess how else can you fill up 24 hours of BS tv, etc without it. Doing actual journalism, nooooooooooo. Can’t have that, people who are the villagers neighbors would have to go to jail.

  3. JimWhite says:

    I especially like the examples Glenn gave from a couple hundred years ago showing precisely why we shouldn’t trust the statements from those in power. I’ve never seen anything from one of the villagers that begins to explain why or how we have moved from attitudes like this:

    “There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty” — John Adams, Journal, 1772.

    “All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree” — James Madison, speech at the Constitutional Convention, July 11, 1787.

    to attitudes like this:

    most journalists are going to give the government the benefit of some doubt

    What’s especially galling is that in the very same sentence, Ambinder says:

    even having learned lessons about giving the government that benefit

    I don’t think he learned the lesson at all if he remains willing to give the benefit of the doubt. Instead, he needs to doubt the benefit of accepting at face value. Then he will have demonstrated that he has learned the lesson.

  4. KarenM says:

    the refusal of journalists to come out of their caves and report on the reality, rather than the filtered reality their professional habits leads them to favor, has real, awful consequences for our country and its citizens.

    Except for those very journalists themselves. Apparently, they are immune to the RealityChecks that apply to most regular folks.

    Jonathan Alter is a good example of one whose own health crisis might have made him more compassionate on the issue of heath care reform, but it has not.

  5. dakine01 says:

    I have no idea how old Ambinder is, but I’ve got to believe he is too young to remember things like H2Ogate, Iran/Contra, Bay of Pigs, Tonkin Gulf and all the other fine examples from the ’50s/’60s/’70s/’80s of government officials lying to everyone.

    Not only is he naive in his beliefs, he is also fairly obviously not a student of history.

    Maybe he should sit down with someone like Jack Germond for some lessons on reporting.

    • Cherenkov says:

      Exactly.

      The journalism schools were full of repugs in the seventies and eighties as part of an overarching strategy utilized by the right. We are reaping that quagmire of poor journalism now.

      Good journalism comes from an independent press with a healthy and total skepticism about anyone with something to gain. You examine what is to be gained, who is funding those who are out front (PR flacks, spokespeople [which includes all government people top to bottom]), and follow the chain of power.

      Journalists have become simple recorders who turn to which ever suit is blabbing. They do not, under the ridiculous guise or “being fair,” actually do any research. They do not find out about the details and nuances of an issue. At one time journalists specialized or were generalists. The best researchers made the best generalists. The specialists required research as well, but they delved even deeper and were adept at turning policy wonkia into easily understood stories that people who were too busy in their careers to research the subject themselves.

      Now, we have journalistic tools who are nothing but talking heads with the puppetmaster corporate weasel’s hands up their bums forcing them to avoid controversy, to toe the corporate line. (Witness the almost complete blackout of single payer in the mainstream media.)

      To get back to a functioning democracy, we need to reinstate the Fairness in Media Act. That is how one achieves balance. Secondly, we need to trust bust the media. The media must stand on their own. No overlord owners. Each and every outlet would be its own financial entity. And we must have a media version of the public option that is not the weak-kneed PBS. We need Amy Goodman and Democracy Now to run that.

      We need a White House press pool that is subject to randomization, one that is not a bunch of toadies who the President and his reps pick and choose from. We need more Helen Thomases. We need people to ask, “Why are we still killing over there?”

      We need to hold the press secretary’s feet over the fire for being a smirking jerk when he belittles Helen for her very important question.

      But, alas, I fear we will be in camps before that happens.

      • dakine01 says:

        FWIW, I think the very best reporters and journalists (and yes, they exist) are folks who majored in something other than Journalism in college.

        My sister is a retired reporter and when she was first starting out, the publisher of the local paper, told her to major in English and learn to write and to learn critical thinking.

        And I give you emptywheel as another fine example of this principle in operation.

  6. allan says:

    Ambinder at 6:44 pm yesterday (I refuse to link):

    The Politico enjoys a solid reputation inside the Beltway; Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen are respected by those they cover.

    Case closed.

  7. MrWhy says:

    I’m one of those superficial quote collectors. Here are a few that are relevant to the discussion.

    When you want to believe in something, you also have to believe in everything that’s necessary for believing in it. — Ugo Betti

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. – Upton Sinclair

  8. fatster says:

    Oh, no!

    08/22/2009
     
    Death Squad
    Blackwater Accused of Creating ‘Killing Program’

    “A memo obtained by SPIEGEL indicates that cooperation between the CIA and private security firm Blackwater was deeper than previously known. SPIEGEL has uncovered further details about a plan to set up squads for targeted killings of suspected al-Qaida leadership in Afghanistan.”

    More.

  9. 19genco says:

    “Or, if raw intelligence is your kind of thing, the process that we now know went into those threat assessments–the torture of Abu Zubaydah that resulted in those absurd threats. Or the torture of Hassan Ghul in August 2004 after he had been in custody since January of that year, just in time to support election eve scare-mongering. All of that is part of the process and evidence of politicization, but Ambinder doesn’t touch it.”

    So, the Bush administration not only tortured to justify the WMD claim in Iraq, they tortured to get false confessions of al queda plots before the elections. In other words, they also tortured to reelect George Bush and Republican Candidates. Holder must investigate torture now.

  10. behindthefall says:

    Very, very nice piece of writing, EW. Pretty much a benchmark on this topic, even leaving aside the threat assessment issue. Well, off to the next thread. (Wish this one would last longer.)

  11. perris says:

    I registered just to document my response to marc’s “mea culpa”, here’s my post

    Marc, I read yesterday the comments from your original article on this matter and I had sympathy for you that you were brutalized even after you posted your apology for the post

    however this piece you just wrote demonstrates, you just don’t get it and I really think after reading this you never will…to wit;

    their worldview was shaped by an all-consuming obsession about terrorism. The One Percent Doctrine.

    you are still believing what has been demonstrated to be false, they had no obsession about terrorism they created obsession among the rest of us as their tool controlling us

    THAT is the very point

    IF they had an obsession concerning terrorism they would have NEVER attacked Iraq, they would have NEVER diverted the assets desperately needed in Afghanistan to attack Iraq which THEY KNEW AS A FACT was not involved, which THEY KNEW AS A FACT had NO weapons of mass destruction and which they knew as a fact posed NO threat

    THEIR intelligence told them their claims were lies

    GET IT?

    the had NO “obsession” with terrorism accept for their obsession with power and how exploiting terrorism would facilitate their obsession

    STOP giving them ANY “benefit of doubt”, there IS no doubt, they used terrorism as their tool to attack a country they’ve wanted to attack since they fantasized about it as members in a SICK and MANIACAL fraternity known as the PNAC.

    now, if you are going to give us a mia culpa, be so kind as to STOP giving the previous (or present for that matter) administration ANY “benefit of doubt”, your JOB as a journalist IS to doubt

    get it yet?

      • stryder says:

        I got a kick out of how you were introduced at netroots.Rather than listing your accolades, as was the case with all the other panelists you were introduced as the person there to “keep everybody honest”and “in command of the details” which I thought was the highest honor anyone could pay to another.

  12. bubbagoober says:

    allan,

    Sullivan’s been a longtime putz, imo, but watching his transformation into an anti-torture crusader HAS been illuminating. Similar to John Cole’s awakening.

    As to ambinder, it’s (aggravatingly) entertaining watching his ideological coyote-ugly drama and him rhetorically chewing-off-his-arm now that he finds himself awake and stuck under cheney’s blood-spattered maw.

  13. bubbagoober says:

    Btw, ot/- but:

    Given that there’s now multiple proof of cheney’s illegal shadow governing, it does sort of open up the ‘what-if’ category on numerous conspricies from the last 8 yrs.

    Things like:
    -the bush biographer (re: his coke use/TANG desertion) committing suicide
    -the alleged ’shoot down’ of the 9-11 jet in PA
    -the receipt-capable voting-machine vendor who ‘drove of a cliff’
    -the Wellstone tragedy

    I’m NOT asserting these happened, just wondering about the possibilities given that cheney (and bush?) deliberately lied us into iraq (read Kwiatkowski) and ran off-the-book assassination rings. Not to mention cheney’s using the NSA to spy on his own WHouse opponents.

    Add that to the allegations of the christotalibanic Blackwater’s murdering whistleblowers and iraqi gun-running programs.

    Since cheney/bush have harmed the US far more than AQ did on 9/11, it would be irresponsible not to speculate. Per cheney’s own words and policies, if there’s even a 1% chance of any of the above, isn’t incumbent on the govn to slap cheney/bush/rummy/addington on the waterboard until the confess the truth?

    /Tinfoil off

  14. bubbagoober says:

    Sorry,

    I forgot the GOP programmer who died the day before he was to testify about Rove’s voting-machine shenanigans in OH04.

    • PJEvans says:

      Some accidents really are.
      Not everything – in fact, most things – are not part of conspiracies.
      Successful conspiracies have to be small in terms of number of members, because people talk (’three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead’).

  15. bubbagoober says:

    PJEvans,

    I sympathize with your take, but at some point coinkydink runs up against Occam’s Razor and Cui Bono.

    Begin with the GOP scrubbing of bush’s TANG desertion records in TX before 00.

    Then take the combo of PNAC and 9/11, bushco’s ignoring scores of warnings pre-9/11, their fighting the 9/11 commission foundation, then denying it access and infiltrating/manipulating parts of it. bush/cheney’s refusing to testify under oath and allow even transcripts speaks volumes, imho.

    We know that cheney manipulated bushco’s regime to maximize influence and minimize paper trails. Add to that their NRC email abuse scheme and circumventing the WH papertrail systems inherited from Clinton. Throw in their “loss” of thousands and thousands of emails at critical times.

    Libby’s perjury to cover up cheney’s (at the minimum) Treason (in a time of war).

    We know that cheney illegally used the NSA to spy on Americans, wholesale, much less on their own WHouse. The cointelpro mimicry of spying-on/infiltrating antiwar and democracy groups.

    The fact that, finally, there’s proof that cheney DELIBERATELY set up and used Off-The-Book, mercenary, assassination rings…well all this just begs the question of What Do We Still Not Know?

    • sporkovat says:

      ah! your logic has led you to a perilous place, grasshoppah!

      you see, many ‘progressive’ DFH’s who have debunked all the Bush/Cheney lies about Iraq’s WMD’s and the ludicrous terra warnings suddenly pivot on the small matter of 9/11 and assert that Bush/Cheney’s Official Story (now with limited hang-outs) is just the plain truth, nothing to see here, move along now.

      even vote fraud resulting in 2 stolen Presidential elections is way out of the psychological comfort zone.

      In this area, most Progressive Bush critics replicate the Ambinder cognitive strategy of outright dismissal of inconvenient facts because they are asserted by ‘conspiracy theorists’ and therefore must be, a priori, false.

  16. bubbagoober says:

    Fwiw, I’m dropping this.

    I only posted what I did b/c of the recent revelations about blackwater and off-the-book assassination rings and the nagging possibilities of the legion of past coincidences (all favorable to bushco, etc).

    I place far too much value on Marcy’s irreplaceable, fact-driven analysis to risk turning this into a conspiracy shack.

  17. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Ambinder clings to the notion that journalists are passionless, objective, Brooksian automatons who assess factual data. The idea that journalists or politicians have no ambition or agenda, that they make no political calculus in forming or editing their own work, is simplistic and ludicrous. He takes politicians at their word because by definition they are credible and disdains their critics because they are critics. That’s a status crime, not an analytical process.

    Ambinder’s use of Plato’s parable of the cave is closer to the shadows Jon Stewart makes with a flashlight and his fingers than to Plato, let alone to Aristotle or Descartes’ insistence on the use of testable, observable criteria. It’s a faux intellectual argument worthy of David Brooks, not reporter worth reading.

    • PJEvans says:

      Ambinder clings to the notion that journalists are passionless, objective, Brooksian automatons who assess factual data.

      He’s from some alternate universe where all journamalists are robots?
      Because otherwise that’s some really fine BS.

  18. readerOfTeaLeaves says:

    There’s a reason we DFHs got so outraged over this. Not just because we were dismissed as cranks when plenty of evidence showed (and still shows) we were right. But because the refusal of journalists to come out of their caves and report on the reality, rather than the filtered reality their professional habits leads them to favor, has real, awful consequences for our country and its citizens.

    This post strikes me as a Tour de Force. I hope it is widely read.

  19. wigwam says:

    Anyone who has had a cheating lover or a acquaintance who’s a pathological liar knows that, if a liar is good enough, it can be nearly impossible to out them on any one lie. But sooner or later a pattern emerges, and a strong signal emerges through all of the noise. In fact, there is an entire branch of science and engineering dedicated to extracting information from noisy signals: per the wikipedia:

    Information theory is a branch of applied mathematics and electrical engineering involving the quantification of information. Historically, information theory was developed by Claude E. Shannon to find fundamental limits on compressing and reliably storing and communicating data. Since its inception it has broadened to find applications in many other areas, including statistical inference, natural language processing, cryptography generally, networks other than communication networks — as in neurobiology,[1] the evolution[2] and function[3] of molecular codes, model selection[4] in ecology, thermal physics,[5] quantum computing, plagiarism detection[6] and other forms of data analysis.[7]

  20. bmaz says:

    So, to sum up (and keeping in mind the beautiful graphic), Ambinder exists in a cave shaped much like an ear – prefect for focusing voices and information on the the organ of intellect – yet he does not listen well. Ambinder’s cave is a blank canvas with only his shadow to look at and focus on – yet he does not see well.

    Perhaps Mr. Ambinder should seek a more enlightened neighborhood.

  21. Albatross says:

    I find it distressing that someone in Ambinder’s position is so naive and authoritarian. Of course, the system selects for and rewards such blind deference to power, and this isn’t news, but it’s distressing to see the journalistic profession autopsied this way.

    • druidity36 says:

      Almost all of them are like that, so i’m not sure why Ambinder is stressing you out. I’ve pretty much given up trusting ANY news source. I double check everything with my blogroll of goodness (EW and FDL at the top of the list). Given up the teevee too! I still write LTTEs to the local and regional rags though.

      The traditional “journalistic profession” is as dead as doornails. Don’t expect anything from them and maybe the trickle that comes out of it will please you.

  22. psyche7 says:

    >I have no idea how old Ambinder is, but I’ve got to believe he is too young to remember things like H2Ogate ….

    Marc Ambinder graduated from Harvard in 2001.
    Ross Douthat graduated from Harvard in 2002.
    Matthew Yglesias graduated from Harvard in 2003.
    Ezra Klein graduated from UCLA in 2004.

    Ambinder is chief political consultant to CBS News.

    There you are.

  23. TheScarletPimpernel says:

    I left a comment on Mr. Ambinder’s 1st non-apology which he promptly had removed because of the exact quotation you refer to.

    I still think that some journalists were right to be skeptical of the doubters at the time. I think that some journalists were correct to question how they arrived at the beliefs they arrived at.

    I merely suggested to him that he might want to ask for some private tutelage from real journalists like Glenn Greenwald or Larisa Alexandrovna. I didn’t think that was particularly ugly, even the part about it making him more than a stenographer.:)

  24. ThingsComeUndone says:

    He suggests that he was right to dismiss the DFHs’ claims–and therefore the assertion that the threat levels were politicized–based on the DFHs themselves. In neither Ambinder’s original column nor in his follow-up does Ambinder accept that there was an abundance of evidence that a journalist might use to assess the threat levels himself, to assess the claims the DFHs were making independently of their credibility or lack thereof.

    He has a bias toward information that confirms his own viewpoint which he of course thinks is right. However the fact that he does not present the other sides case in full suggests he is scared.
    We present the other sides case all the time in full the better to ridicule it entirely:)
    The MSM acting as stenographers for Bush the last 8 years means that they were wrong for the last 8 years.

  25. ThingsComeUndone says:

    There’s a reason we DFHs got so outraged over this. Not just because we were dismissed as cranks when plenty of evidence showed (and still shows) we were right. But because the refusal of journalists to come out of their caves and report on the reality, rather than the filtered reality their professional habits leads them to favor, has real, awful consequences for our country and its citizens.

    There is a reason why media stocks are tanking:)

  26. eagleye says:

    Great work, Marcy. Looking one layer deeper beyond Ambinder, we have to keep reminding ourselves to follow the money. So long as our media outlets continue to be owned by big moneyed interests, we’re going to get bullshit reporting and slanted punditry. There is just no way that General Electric or NewsCorp are going to employ people who challenge the established order of things.

  27. DeanOR says:

    “Reflexively anti-Bush
    By 2004, it made complete sense to distrust anything the Bush administration said. That wasn’t reflexive, it was rational.
    Paul Krugman 8/22/09″

  28. DeanOR says:

    Re: giving government the benefit of the doubt. I’m not a Harvard-educated journalist, but besides the demonstrable lack of credibility of Bush/Cheney, I know that there has been documented war propaganda and manipulation of war-related information in the this country and throughout the world. That includes domestic propaganda. I came of age politically in the Vietnam War era, so I know whereof I speak, but it goes all the way back to early history.

  29. Jkat says:

    lol .. marc ambinder’s cave ..

    probably looks more like a colon wall … an internal colon wall ..

    marc needs one of those “optical navel implants” where he can see where he’s headed .. imo

    • SparklestheIguana says:

      I was just going to say the same thing.

      Uncannily colon-like. Looks like it’s about to empty into the rectum….Ambinder’s comments make so much more sense now.

  30. AngelsAwake says:

    All media work by Village wonks just reminds me of a damn videogame.

    In Command and Conquer, an old, old wargame about terrorists fighting the government, the main villain had a quote: “Control the media, control the mind.” Seeing the horror and truth of that statement in real life is, well… mindblowing.

  31. Sara says:

    I actually think the best argument regarding the use of Threat Intelligence for political purposes is made by looking at how Republicans dealt with these matters during the Clinton Administration. In general they tried to ignore certain realities, they used their right wing communications megaphone to dismiss Clinton Administration efforts to respond to real terrorist threats, and then on taking office, they continued to ignore the matter — right up till 9/11. Let’s just look at a few clear examples of things that happened between 1996 and 2001, and see if we can characterize Republican motives in their responses.

    First — the declaration of war on the US by bin Laden in an interview with then ABC reporter, John Miller, May 28, 1998 in the mountains of Afghanistan. Miller’s interview was the core of a two part Nightline program, broadcast about a month after the interview. Peter Bergen had a similar interview, and used it for his book. Ted Koppel included in the Nightline Program, additional materials from British and American intelligence. This “declaration of war” predated the attacks on the US Embassies in E. Africa, but they forshadow those attacks.

    The response of Congressional Republicans to the Embassy bombings in the wake of the interviews which were televised, was to talk about a comic film, “Wag the Dog”, and then dispute the Clinton reading of the intelligence when Clinton responded with Tomahawk Missiles directed at al-Qaeda Camps. And oh yea, it was an effort to take the focus off Monica Lewinsky. All this, even though FBI and CIA successfuly arrested most of the perpertrators, brought them to NYC, indicted and tried them — Pat Fitzgerald, trial attorney.

    During the same summer as the “declaration of war” and the Embassy Attacks, CIA discovered a plot to overthrow the Government of Albania by al-Qaeda. CIA along with others, rounded up the perp’s, and rendered them to Egypt and in a few cases to Algeria. The intelligence for understanding the Coup plans included Kosovo emerged from this — and the decision to engage with the Kosovo Independence group against Milosevic and the Serbs then in Kosovo was the result. Clinton was bright enough not to get pushed into the waiting arms of Milosevic…which was where al-Qaeda thought they could push Clinton and the west. Instead Clinton worked to involve NATO, and eventually make NATO and then the UN the sponsor of Kosovo’s eventual independence or at least autonomy.

    The response of the Republicans in Congress? Well first off, call it Madeline’s war, and then try to cut off funding for US Troops in the Field, which they successfully did in one House. Are we to assume that during the Clinton Administration the House and Senate Intelligence Committees were not briefed on the work of CIA’s “Alex Station” which was tracking bin Laden and al-Qaeda? Did they not understand the implications of al-Qaeda trying to make a base of Albania? Tenet and Michael Scheur both say the Intelligence Committees were thoroughly briefed.

    Third, due to a bit of luck on the border between Washington State and Canada, the FBI was able to take apart the Millinneal Plot, and avoid serious bombings at the century change. Jordan was able to crack a related plot on the Jordan/Israeli Border. Canada was able to arrest many supporters of the plot. Sadly, they did not catch the plan to blow up the US Navy ship, ‘The Sullivans’ in Yemen, so the plot survived to later blow up the Cole in October, 2000.

    The Republicans ignored the Millinneal Plot. Again, the Intelligence Committees were briefed on its dimensions but for reasons unknown, the whole issue of responding to terrorist attacks was ignored during the Bush-Gore Campaign of 2000.

    Following the Embassy bombings in 1998, a Blue-Ribbon Committee led by former Senators Hart and Rudman was established, and it issued its report just after George W. Bush took office in 2001. The Report predicted many future terrorist attacks on the US and US facilities abroad. Bush handed it off to Cheney to read and contend with, and both Hart and Rudman contend it never got any attention. It was featured on the news when it was first issued, and then ignored. It would only be dusted off after 9/11 and reviewed.

    I suspect Clinton’s comment on first briefing George Bush after the 2000 election is appropriate at this point. “He doesn’t know much, He doesn’t want to know much, but he ain’t dumb”

    There are many more items one could include in this list of how Republicans Politicized Intelligence during the Clinton Administration as a political tactic designed to deny Clinton and his Administration any credit for accomplishment or insight on this front. But for now, this is enough. The point should be fairly clear.

    • prostratedragon says:

      Much obliged. Some of us who can’t just relax and go along with the presumption of universal innocence started out noticing many of the specifics you report here, which often appeared quietly in the news back then.

      For instance I well remember Osama’s declaration of war, and the thought that since it was obvious that he took it seriously, I hoped someone in the government would.

      [FWIW, I remember an evening news feature in, I guess, 1979 or ‘80, on a young Egyptian firebrand, a professional man with a Western-style education, who had just been arrested in connection with plots against the government; not sure now whether this was before or after the agreement mediated by Carter, but around then.

      I remarked at the time that the pathos of seeing a man in a cage, as he was, and facing an uncertain future at the hands of a government that we knew very well treated its prisoners harshly didn’t do a thing to ease the offensiveness of the man’s rant —for he was shouting death and destruction through the bars at the top of his lungs. It would be an understatement to say that I instantly disliked him. I mentally bookmarked the moment and went on my way.

      Not long ago I read someone else’s recollection somewhere on-line or maybe in a book of the same event somewhere —it was a riveting moment, and probably on ABC News or something that well-disseminated— and realized that the man that had momentarily stopped disparately located people dead in their tracks was Ayman al-Zawahiri.

      So I think anyone or at least small collective who was half awake and charged with keeping abreast of who were our potential enemies in that part of the world must have known about him and his associates from that far back.]

  32. pseudonymousinnc says:

    This was exacerbated by the treatment of Sarah Palin and Chuck Grassley as legitimate sources because there are “official” representatives of the Republican Party, when any assessment of what they were saying ought to disqualify them as legitimate voices (though admittedly, Obama bears a ton of responsibility for Grassley’s centrality in the debate).

    This. Just as “if your source screws you over, burn your source” apparently no longer applies in the Village, so is the concept that a public figure who repeatedly and obviously lies about an issue becomes valueless or detrimental to a story, and should be treated merely as background noise.

  33. bobh says:

    A reminder of another related incident:

    In 2006 our beloved Ned Lamont had just beaten Joe Lieberman in the CT Dem primary, with Iraq the main point of disagreement.

    To steal Lamont’s thunder, and prop up Lieberman, Homeland Security prematurely released the very next day details of an vague plot by British Muslims to hijack passenger aircraft, and declared an alert that snarled airports and stranded passengers. In what should have been a triumphant interview, Lamont had to face suggestions from his 60 Minutes Steve Croft that his candidacy was now irrelevant.

  34. bubbagoober says:

    Sporkovat,

    Here’s the rub: JFK was assassinated by the mob/cia off-the-books crew. (I’d bet RFK was taken out by the same crew).

    Combine jesusfreak-taliban mercs with privatized CIA connections swimming in a sea of unraceable money…..

    Well, it makes ME uncomfortable. I’m not overly worried about some wingnut retard going at Obama, but experienced, connected pros afraid of exposure, prosecution, or having their gravy-trains eliminated are entirely another matter.

    (Btw, no one really informed truly believes that the 9/11 commission answered all questions. Except for the simple-minded, treasonous, dolchstab Weimar-American partei. Obama, Holder, or congress should just appoint a special prosecutor and order all records revealed).

    And let the chips fall where they may…

    (ot/- what WAS Sandy Berger trying to remove from the national archives…?)

  35. bubbagoober says:

    And I know of NO informed progressives who doubt either presidential election was stolen…..

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