Daylight Saving Time Trash Talk

If there has ever been an avatar as to the gimmickry and inane stupidity of those who govern in this country, it is Daylight Savings Time. Seriously, what is wrong with this picture? Golly, we will just pretend time and seasons don’t exist by willfully shifting them! What a load of shit. It was stupid when it was devised and it is stupid now. I wonder how people in Alaska, who live their lives with the truth of daylight versus darkness, feel about this inane nonsense? Well, at any rate, I am getting a bit of a late start this morning, and because Arizona does not engage in the fraud of Daylight Savings Time (one of the few smart things this state’s legislature has ever done) I never know what time it is other places in the world. Does anybody really care? Let’s get to the football now, because the KC Royals are glorious World Series Champions, and the F1 Circus is off this weekend.

In the collegiate ranks, this is moving weekend. The bigs are starting to play the other bigs. First and foremost is LSU at the Crimson Tide in Bama. If this was in Baton Rouge, I am taking the Tigers all day, because I think they are the better team at this point. Alas, the game is in Tuscaloosa. Undoubtedly going to regret this, but I am still tending to an upset by the Tigers, but it will depend on Fournette getting untracked against a Tide defense that rarely allows that.

Clemson versus FSU is a big game. Hard to find someone to root for here, but I will take Clemson. Because Jimbo Fisher and FSU are ciminal coddling scumbags. Think Northwestern’s Mighty Fighting Journalists may have a problem with a rejuvenated Christian Hackenberg and Penn State. The other big moving day game is TCU at Oklahoma State. Both are sitting at 8-0, and TCU is favored. Jerry Jones may not be winning squat (and given his constant coddling of a criminal like Greg Hardy, good) as a Cowboy, but I think his OSU Cowboys pull the upset here. Utah at Chris Peterson’s Washington Huskies is another trap game. Probably the game I am most interested in, curiously, is the Midshipmen of Navy cruising their flotilla into Memphis. If Memphis gets by this game, and I think they will, people are going to have to start taking them and QB Paxton Lynch for real. Let’s hope that is so.

In the pros, the game of the week has to be Green Bay at Carolina. Holy crap, the Pack sure stunk it up in Denver against the last undefeated team they played. Aaron Rodgers has never been more feckless that he was last week, including when he was carrying a clipboard for Grandpa Favre. Jeebus, that was truly ugly. Can that happen two weeks in a row to Mr. Rodgers? I don’t think so, but this IS in Carolina, and Luke Kuechly and Josh Norman will be patrolling the other side of the ball. Should be a great game, but I think the Pack won’t lay two eggs in a row. Which will help the Cardinals, who are on bye break waiting to head to the Emerald City for a showdown with the Squawks. Before they come home to take on the undefeated Bengals on a SNF flex game.

In other news and notes, Johnny Football did not look crappy Thursday against the Bengals. Didn’t look great, but he is certainly not the Brownies’ problem, a crappy team that is nowhere near as good as Cinci is the problem. Fish at Bills and Rams and Vikings both really are intriguing. If the locations were reversed, so too would my picks be. But I will take both home teams here. For once, ESPN is actually right about something, the battle between Todd Gurley and Adrian Peterson is truly compelling.

Raiders at the Steelers could be a great game. The Raiders are MUCH improved, and truly starting to play some decent ball. But this is Big Ben’s second game back, and he will have settled back in by now, and I think that is the difference. Look out for the Raiders in the future though. Peyton is going to his old home. Luck sucks lately. I’ll take Peyton here, though will note that Pagano is coaching for his job. So, maybe Chuck ‘n Luck will pull out some more of those dandy trick plays they used to such great success against Bill Bel and the Pats! Iggles at Cowboys? Are these two teams still in the NFL?

That’s it for this week lugnuts. Music by Terry Kath and Chicago.

124 replies
  1. bloopie2 says:

    I’ll get the Greg Hardy ball rolling. Should he be kicked off the team? That’s up to the team, as that is the right of most any employer. Kicked out of the NFL? Well, I don’t see why an employers organization should be allowed to decide that; I don’t think they are exempt from antitrust laws, after all. Football is the thing he is best at, and it is his chosen profession.
    But where do we stop? Why stop at the NFL? Should he be allowed to work as a real estate agent, selling houses? Should we prevent him from working productively at any other job ever again, thus turning him into an economic ward of the state who is obviously unhappy with us and historically violent and thus likely to act out again? Is that our desired outcome? In sum: What gives us the right to say, “You can do this job but not another job?”
    (This part is tongue in cheek) Or maybe we should just kill him now, to make sure he doesn’t pass on these unwanted genetic tendencies to another generation.

  2. bloopie2 says:

    Wouldn’t it be lovely to see an NCAA playoff including Baylor, Clemson, TCU, and Stanford? I’m so sick and tired of those oligarch schools in the Southeast and Midwest winning everything.

  3. emptywheel says:

    No love for the girls running football in the Motor City?


    For those who missed it, the local press was beginning to suggest that Martha Ford, the 90-year old widow of Bill Sr, who owned this team into an 0-16 season, should sell the team bc girls can’t run football teams.


    That was until she axed the GM and (much loved by the Ford family) President this week. Exciting!


    The named a woman as acting COO, which apparently has never happened before. And while people had suggested Bill Jr should be the one she sells the team to, another of her daughters seems to be next in line at this point.


    Here’s to hoping the girls in the Ford family can finally set the Kitties on a better path.

    • SomeCallMeTim says:

      Mrs. SCMT thinks girls and Kitties would be a potent mix. Hope there’d be less to do than Ms Frontierre faced with the Lambs.

    • bmaz says:

      I dunno. Mean that honestly, haven’t a clue.
      But easily willing to say this: Martha and the girls could not possibly run a worse administered franchise for decades without having the “Bidwell” name.
      There is hope Lions fans. Albeit it a long, dark, tunnel.

      • Peterr says:

        Martha and the girls could not possibly run a worse administered franchise for decades without having the “Bidwell” name.

        Of course, that’s not exactly a really high bar to clear.

  4. JohnT says:

    We’re thinking a lot alike. Even though they’re from the evil SEC division, I’m really tempted to take LSU because of the moneyline. I do have them with a few other teams, because they’re getting 6.5 points. But that moneyline is realllly tempting
    Ok State is a dog at home, and the moneyline is really intriguing. I like TCU but, both Oklahoma teams have been good to me this year. I still like Utah though because of their ATS road record. And Paxton Lynch and Memphis are the real deal
    I’m also looking at Marshall, Marshall, Marshall. Which is one of the mid majors very few of the talking heads are talking about
    Houston has a very talented, but raw QB, and I like them today
    Gonna go all Cap’n Jack with the last two. I think the East Carolina Pirates get back on track with a win. And unfortunately for ASU I think Mike Leach and Wash State continue to put up good offensive numbers at home

    • dakine01 says:

      Looks like Marshall Marshall Marshall done went and lost to da Blue Raidahs today which puts them a game behind the Hilltoppers in the C-USA East with both of them yet to play FIU (Marshall next Saturday and WKU the following Saturday) and then Marshall travels to Bowling Green for the regular season finale on 11/27

        • dakine01 says:

          Doughty has 3 years now playing for Brohm (one as offensive coordinator and two as head coach) so they are working well together. The 35 points yesterday is their third lowest scoring game this year (14 in a win over Vanderbilt and 20 in a loss to LSU.)

          I’m sure Marshall will be looking to upset the ‘Toppers as payback for last year though…

  5. Bitter Angry Drunk says:

    As a Vikings fan I have to say… this team is not that good. Fk that homophobe Tony Dungy’s playoff prediction. The Vikings don’t have an impressive win. Best performance probably losing by only 3 at Denver. Teddy can barely throw it beyond 15 yards. Really expecting them to lose to both the Rams and Raiders in the next two weeks. Gurley and that defense make the Rams pretty formidable. The Raiders can score. I still like Zimmer (maybe it’s the scars of living through Brad Childress that makes me think we can’t possibly have a worse coach), but man, from that opening loss to the Niners, which grows more embarrassing by the week, something just isn’t right with this team.

      • Peterr says:

        Crazy busy with family stuff and hospital visits to members. Didn’t see much of the FJ/Penn State game, and now rushing off to church.
        I’m thinking Ol’ Noodlearm is going to have a tough time in Indy. The Donks may win, but I don’t think it will be because Peyton had a spectacular day.

    • bmaz says:

      Peyton’s got a gun,
      but his whole world has come undone….
      And it ain’t even Brady and Bill Bel time yet!

        • jo6pac says:

          The D is the real deal and now that new O play calling is working watch the O score big. This is a new O play calling plan it was a struggle in the beginning but D has been there. Then adding VD to the pattern they should be having fun

          Then in 9er world I’m sure it will get even stranger in the future. The owners are going to business plan of the so-called modern corp. world. Socialism for the 1% and the rest of us sell your children for a ticket no the nightmare.

    • Jim White says:

      Joined. I guess that we really should have realized that, given their current #1 ranking in the playoff poll, it’s too early for Clemson to do a full Clemson. I’m thinking they breeze through their ACC schedule and then find a way to lose to South Carolina.
      The Gators survived today with an Ohio State-level ugly win against what should have been a lesser opponent. But given the losses today by Ole Miss and TCU, an ugly win is still a win.

  6. Teddy says:

    I’m unwilling to believe the Arizona State Legislature did something smart. I would believe, however, that they simply overlooked Daylight Savings Time when it came along and have since forgot it.

    • emptywheel says:

      Us SoCalians always assumed AZ just stayed on our Time Zone in the summer bc they were on our beaches so often anyway.

    • bmaz says:

      Naw, they did that back decades ago before they were batshit crazy. We actually had a quite decent legislature and state govt here at one time. Only old farts like me remember that, but such was once the case.

    • JohnT says:

      Yea, I can’t figure Navy out this year. When I think they should win, they don’t. When I think they should keep it close, they don’t. When the other team is favored, Navy wins

  7. scribe says:

    On the road this week. Not much to say b/c going to visit a terminally ill close relative.
    Enjoy the trash, folks.

      • scribe says:

        Thanks for the good thought, Peterr.
        Arrived at hospice, relative in spirits and condition about as good as could be expected given the circumstances. This place is like something out of Defending Your Life, about halfway between Albert Brooks’ and Meryl Streep’s places of abode in that flick.
        Glad to see my Stillers managed to not totally give the game away. An astonishing tragicomedy of errors and omissions where they came down to needing a last-second FG to pull the win out of their collective ass. Good thing our next two weeks are the Manziels and then a late bye.
        Now we get to see whether the Iggles can give me a perfect quadrifecta today. Recall my rooting order: (1) Stillers, (2) Who’s playing Dallas, (3) Iggles, (4) Giants.

  8. Bay State Librul says:

    Has anyone heard of sports writer Jim Brady?

    Well, ESPN felt the heat and hired him as their “Ombudsman” (to ensure unbiased opinion? — Chris Mortensen, Goodall, and Deflategate come to mind)

    Brady threw in $500,000 to jump start “Billy Penn” in Philadelphia and calls himself a Jet fan.

    Too bad they couldn’t lure Mike McCann away from Sports Illustrated

    At least it is a recognition that ESPN fucked up.

  9. orionATL says:

    you’d thought, or maybe heard, about college football and big money, but the game is really about loyalyty, athleticism, and tailgating, right? right.

    well some no-good, dream buster of a business columnist has gone and analyzed univ of georgia football and the income it brings in – texas and notre dame de le vert also merit a mention :

    i’m not a georgia fan or anti-fan. i wish them well. coach richt has a good record and has kept the program clean.

    what more could a fan want?

  10. Bay State Librul says:

    The Globe has a pretty good article on Draft Kings

    If you wind up in a street fight, it’s a good idea to have some muscular friends backing you up.

    Draft Kings Inc. knows the feeling. The fantasy sports startup has spent the past few weeks pursued by government regulators and casino industry competitors who are asking whether the industry is just a form of unregulated gambling and is operating outside the law.

    Those kind of questions could spell trouble for a company that’s just a few years old. But take a look at the big-time players behind the fantasy sports startup, and it becomes much easier to see how Draft Kings could emerge to lead a new era of consumer tech in Boston.

    Draft Kings has raised more than $600 million since 2012, with an investor list that has expanded well beyond the normal roster of venture and private-equity firms to include a who’s-who of the sports-media industrial complex: Fox Sports, Major League Baseball, the NHL, and the owners of the New York Knicks, New York Rangers, Los Angeles Dodgers, Dallas Cowboys, and New England Patriots.

    That powerful coalition means Draft Kings has the momentum to keep growing despite the pushback from old-economy regulators and rivals, following a pattern set by startup heroes such as transportation-app maker Uber Technologies Inc. and home-rental service Airbnb Inc.

    Paul English, the Boston entrepreneur and cofounder of travel company Kayak Software Corp., said Draft Kings has been “firing on all cylinders” as it spends millions of dollars on advertising in an effort to become a household name.

    They’ve hit a market, they’re great local recruiters in Boston, and they’re certainly going big on branding,” English said. “In the long term, technology investment usually wins. If you can innovate, it will win.”

    In fantasy sports, competitors assemble virtual teams from professional rosters and score points based on the individual performances of the players on game day. The daily fantasy sports market, which offers short-term games for cash prizes, has grown quickly in the past few years, collecting about $1 billion in entry fees from players in 2014, according to industry analysis firm Eilers Research LLC of Anaheim Hills, Calif.

    Those fees are expected to climb to nearly $4 billion this year, about $8 billion next year, and $17.7 billion by 2020, Eilers said.

    Eilers also estimated that there are fewer than 4 million active, paying players in the “daily” segment occupied by Draft Kings and its chief competitor, Fan Duel Inc. of New York, compared with an estimated 46 million players of traditional season-long games in North America. That suggests the market has room to grow.

  11. JohnT says:

    My w.a.g. for the pros – I’m going with my ‘go to’ teams – Jets, Panthers, Vikings (can’t take the Bengals, cuz Thurs) along with the Giants, and, even though I still have a bad taste in my mouth from when they got away with felonious assault against Bret Favruh and the Vikings in the NFC CG – the Saints

    • bmaz says:

      I have the same!
      And, jesus, the Packers can’t cover shit on defense. Newton is eating them alive. Apparently the road to the Super Bowl will not run through the Frozen Tundra. Ugh.

      • emptywheel says:

        Toldya this game might be a problem.

        Cam went from alienating all his teammates a few years ago to really learning how to be a leader. And on paper, his athleticism/stats rival (and in some ways exceed) Rodgers’.

        Rodgers is definitely the better QB. But Cam has grown up a LOT in recent years.

        • bmaz says:

          Big Ben has a “mid-foot sprain” and is expected to be out maybe 3 weeks. But the Stillers have a bye in there, so maybe not to bad.
          Yeah, jeez, Rodgers has just been hammered the last two weeks. They need to get it together on the Green Bay O-line.

  12. JohnT says:

    Anybody know Gregg Williams (Rams DC), personally? I mean, friends of his?
    Oh, wait, wtf am I thinking? Jerkoff sociopathic scumbags like him, don’t have any friends. Dogs growl at him at first sight; cats hiss at him; and if Mother Theresa were still alive, she’d flip him off. He’s the one guy who can come close to making Dick Cheney a sympathetic figure in comparison
    I don’t know the Rams player, but he completely cheap shot Teddy Bridgewater into most likely giving him a severe concussion while he was defenseless and sliding. I’m sure the Rams players are taught the art of dickishness by that m f’er
    I totally agree with Mike Zimmer. And if I were there, I’d join him
    I also agree with this reddit thread

  13. Peterr says:

    The campus of the University of Missouri has been roiling all through the fall with episodes of racist behavior and a perceived lack of response from the university administration. The president has been trying to figure out how to appropriately address things, but keeps stepping on rakes.
    Today comes this:

    MU System president Tim Wolfe made no mention of resigning Sunday after black Tiger football players went on strike demanding he step down.
    Wolfe released a statement Sunday afternoon saying the university would continue work on a systemwide diversity and inclusion strategy set to be unveiled next spring.
    “In the meantime, I am dedicated to ongoing dialogue to address these very complex, societal issues as they affect our campus community,” Wolfe said.
    Sophomore safety Anthony Sherrils tweeted on Saturday that the team’s black players have gone on strike.
    A graduate of Hogan Prep in Kansas City, Sherrils tweeted: “The athletes of color on the University of Missouri football team truly believe ‘Injustice Anywhere is a threat to Justice Everywhere’ We will no longer participate in any football related activities until President Tim Wolfe resigns or is removed due to his negligence toward marginalized students’ experiences. WE ARE UNITED.”
    Those words were accompanied by a picture of a group of black football players linked in arm in arm as a show of solidarity. Forty-one of the 58 players on Missouri’s offensive and defensive depth charts are black.
    Wolfe, who is president of the University of Missouri system, has come under fire in recent months for his response, or lack of response in some cases, to a flurry of racist episodes on the Columbia campus.

    This has been ugly already, but getting the football team united and publicly calling for Wolfe’s head is going to ramp this up exponentially.

    • bmaz says:

      I am not sure what these students think Wolfe should do. There was an instance of a swastika being painted in shit on a wall in a dorm, but nobody was caught doing it and it was immediately removed and cleaned. What else can the administration do in that instance? The other instances I have seen described consisted of individuals passing by black students out in open spaces and yelling epithets. The one person who was caught was thrown out of the campus and, presumably, the UM school system. Frankly, without due process, that itself was probably unconstitutional as without a threat, it is protected speech. But it was done. I have seen no reports that the university condones or fosters impropriety in the classroom or institutionally. It is beyond loathsome that this crap happens, but I have yet to see what the school is doing wrong institutionally. It all seems to be individual action by students outside of the classroom, and without direct threats. Maybe Wolfe is a bad guy, but I have seen no evidence of that in any of the reports.

      • Peterr says:

        It’s not so much the individual acts and the individual responses, but the overall sense that Wolfe has projected of a kind of “boys will be boys” attitude. Sorry, but that’s not going to cut it.
        From a story yesterday in the KC Star:

        Missouri Students Association President Payton Head, a black student from Chicago, jump-started a conversation about race at Missouri in mid-September with a Facebook post about being berated with racial epithets went viral.
        As more students came forward with similar stories, black students organized a rally, while MU’s administration sat largely silent for several days.

        From that Facebook post:

        WARNING: EXPLICIT LANGUAGE: I just want to say how extremely hurt and disappointed I am. Last night as I walking through campus, some guys riding on the back of a pickup truck decided that it would be okay to continuously scream NIGGER at me. I really just want to know why my simple existence is such a threat to society. For those of you who wonder why I’m always talking about the importance of inclusion and respect, it’s because I’ve experienced moments like this multiple times at THIS university, making me not feel included here. Many of you are so privileged that you’ll never know what it feels like to be a hijab-wearing Muslim woman and be called a terrorist or a towel head. You don’t have to think about being transgender and worrying about finding a restroom where you can go and not be targeted for violence because you don’t fit into the gender binary. You’ll never know what it feels like to see Memorial Union every day and enter the side like a second class citizen because after 90 years, there’s still no accessible way to enter the tower. You’ve never been spit on walking down 9th street or mis-gendered at Pizza Tree because they called out your birth name. You’ve never had to experience people throwing drinks on you and yelling FAGGOT at you from the patio at Big 12 as you walk past on the street holding hands with your partner. You might never had to think twice about what you’re wearing walking around campus at night so that someone won’t think it’s okay to take ownership of your body because your outfit was “asking for it.” If your simple existence is not a political statement I’m really going to need for you to check your privilege. These are some of my experiences and the experiences of the ones closest to me. This is what I’m fighting against every day in boardrooms, conferences, meetings, classrooms, the Capitol, and in my daily life. This is my reality. Is it weird that I think that I have the right to feel safe here too? If you see violence like this and don’t say anything, you, yes YOU, are a part of the problem. It’s the reason why It’s On Us, Black Lives Matter, Trans Rights are Human Rights, and love is fucking love. If you want to fight for social change at Mizzou there are so many different outlets. Apply to be a Diversity Peer Educator, stop by any of our wonderful centers of social justice. Educate yourselves and others. Hold your family, friends, fraternity brothers and sorority sisters accountable. And if this post made you feel uncomfortable, GOOD! That means I’m doing my job. It’s time to wake up Mizzou.

        Your Nigger/Faggot Missouri Students Association President,

        Payton Head

        Head touched a nerve, and Wolfe continues to be at a loss for how to address it (see “check your privilege” above.)

          • bmaz says:

            Well, he did not do a good job of communicating there, to say the least. Not that I think that crowd would have accepted anything he said at that point, but it is hard to tell with just that truncated clip.
            But, really, what root solution do these students have other than firing Wolfe, which doesn’t really solve anything at all? Are they suggesting McCarthy style inquests to see who on campus is a closeted racist or may associate with them? Are they seeking to have unconstitutional restrictions placed on speech? What is their remedy?

          • scribe says:

            President ought to declare open walk-ons for any Mizzou student who wants to play football and yank the scholarships of the strikers.
            I think turning a university into a McCarthyist laboratory of mob rule – which is what the strikers are doing – is a bad idea and ,,, well, lay the axe at the root.
            That, or end football at Mizzou (maybe just forfeit this year).

            • Peterr says:

              God forbid that students of color should expect to be treated as full human beings.
              See more in a WaPo story earlier this week.
              Labeling this mob rule is way off base. This is the understandable reaction of folks who have been repeatedly abused and ignored, and who have decided that enough is enough.
              If problems on campus have reached this point, for whatever reason, it is a clear indication that the administration is incompetent when it comes to dealing with them. If there was no merit to the concerns, competent administration would have made that clear early on, and this would have dissipated. Given that the tensions have only escalated, either Wolfe is incompetent in dealing with baseless accusations or the accusations have merit and he’s unwilling to meaningfully address them. Either is grounds for seeking out a new president.

              • bmaz says:

                Rubbish. It ‘may” mean that, or it may simply mean that a university that size cannot b e perfectly sanitized so that every interest group has their own precious little “safe space”. I asked you above

                But, really, what root solution do these students have other than firing Wolfe, which doesn’t really solve anything at all? Are they suggesting McCarthy style inquests to see who on campus is a closeted racist or may associate with them? Are they seeking to have unconstitutional restrictions placed on speech? What is their remedy?

                I note that neither you, nor these oh so dedicated students have an answer for that. Other than the idiotic ritualistic sacking of the President. That’s garbage logic. The only way to provide the prophylactic protection these students so vociferously demand is to crack down in patently unconstitutional ways. That is not a proper goal.

                • Peterr says:

                  I’m intrigued by your use of “McCarthyite” as a descriptor — no, make that appalled. Are you suggesting that the concerns of these students, including the student body president, are invented as a mechanism for attacking someone with whom they disagree? Are you saying that the numerous complaints are all fabricated, in order to smear Wolfe?
                  I’m not saying that Wolfe is the root of the racist behavior in Columbia. Similarly, the students are not saying that either. What they are saying is that in the face of such racism, Wolfe’s attitude and actions has been so woefully ineffective in addressing it that he needs to leave.
                  That’s not McCarthyism — that’s what graduate students learn in HIED 101: Introduction to Academic Administration.

              • P J Evans says:

                I read that letter elsewhere – Daily Kos, I think – earlier this week.
                If it’s even halfway accurate in what students who aren’t straight white males are dealing with, then the university is Doing It Rong.

  14. CTuttle says:

    Kudos to Pagano and the Colts for taking a knee instead of running up the score! I’m bummed, but, hope it’s a wake-up call for the Orange Crush…!

    My best wishes to you, scribe…!

  15. orionATL says:

    whatever is really going on at the u of mizzu, including football team,

    there are two currents one could guess are running

    – this is a concussion echo of ferguson

    – this is white boys can’t jump, but the ball belongs to them.

    the u. prez is straddling mostly nameless angry student plebes on the one side, whom he fears a lot less, and covertly racist and likely vengeful white patricians in the legislature, governor’s office, and the state republican party whom he fears a lot more, white patricians who would turn the u. into poverty row on a pretext if prez were to challenge the state’s essentially southern racial peace.

    big scare comey would do well to undestand that this is the real ferguson effect.

  16. orionATL says:

    what the u. prez needs is a lesson in how to straddle – how to appear to be concerned with hoi polloi but not offend the silent majority :).

    a lessonn like this:

    “… We stand together tonight reeling from what feels like an old wound that has been torn open afresh,…”

    no, jay, not “what feels like” but what, in fact, is a very old wound torn freed in missouri (and also in kansas).

    lest we forget:

    (from miss wiki)
    [… Missouri was initially settled by Southerners coming up the Mississippi River and Missouri River. Many brought a few slaves. Missouri entered the Union in 1821 as a slave state following the Missouri Compromise of 1820, in which Congress agreed that no other territory north of 36°30′ (Missouri’s southern border with Arkansas) could enter the Union as a slave state. Maine entered the Union as a free state in the compromise to balance Missouri. …]

    • orionATL says:

      speaking of sports, did anybody know that ny state does not have a single ncaa div 1 bowl-team-type football team?

      is that possible?

      and just what kind of social pathology does that fact suggest :)

      • bloopie2 says:

        There’s no Division 1 football in New York? Well, that makes sense. NY kids go to school to learn stuff, not to play games. (yeah, sure) Another way to look at it is that everything that counts in the state has flowed downhill and settled in NY City, which has no space for gridirons and such. Residents of the City don’t give a crap about the upstate rubes and their outdoor occupations, and would never vote to facilitate such.

    • bmaz says:

      No, what I am saying is that the only thing that could come close to ensuring the across the board “safe space” they clamor for would require McCarthy like witchhunts and due process free penalties, not to mention unconstitutional restrictions on free speech.
      Also, why stop here, what other things should a bunch of football players be able to extort out of the university by threatening jobs and income stream? Should they have the power to fire any professor they suddenly decide they don’t like? Should they be able to set the curriculum? Do they get to decide what vendors are on campus? Hell, maybe we should just let the football players take the place of the Board of Curators.

      • orionATL says:

        dear bmaz,

        i’m not talking about facts, legal or otherwise.

        i’m talking about emotional history, and raw expressions by young citizens of their deep frustration and anger.

        when one talks of facts in such an emotional situation as this, one is talking dismissiveness (and possibly justifications for institutional revenge).

        • P J Evans says:

          Harassment – UM should have a policy, and the president is responsible for making sure it’s both known to everyone and enforced fairly. If the harassers are off-campus, then it’s part of UM’s job to make sure local law enforcement knows that students don’t feel safe because of it. If they’re from off-campus but harassing students on-campus, then it’s UM’s job to control access and enforce their own rules.

          Access to facilities – ADA compliance. Which is a law, and again the president of UM has, or should have, the power to make it happen. If the building can’t be modified, then maybe they need to fix that. (ADA compliance also includes people with vision and hearing impairments. Are they handling that, also?)

        • orionATL says:

          re #81

          singing “the why thanksgin takin so long to get here” blues:

          when your crisis management experts wrote your lines for you you may sound like an uncaring robot:

          “… On Friday, Wolfe said he regretted his reaction and that his behavior “seemed like I did not care.”

          “I was caught off guard in that moment,” Wolfe said. But he added: “I am asking us to move forward in addressing the racism that exists at our university — and it does exist. Together we must rise to the challenge of combating racism, injustice and intolerance.””

  17. bloopie2 says:

    Back in the days of the campus sit-in, the smartest schools simply allowed the sit-in-ers (sitters-in?) to stay there, but allowing in no food or water etc. Quite soon they gave up and left, having accomplished next to nothing. Why not allow the students to strike? Honestly, they’re just kids, it’s just a football game, and it doesn’t really make a difference in the world whether they play or not. The reaction of the coaching staff is another matter. If they strike, they can and should be fired or otherwise disciplined. They are adults — they know that there are better, adult, ways to address this issue, and they are reneging, both legally and morally, on their commitments to the University (not to mention encouraging students to act in a non-adult manner — the coaches are supposed to be role models, after all).

    • bmaz says:

      In a way, I agree with that. But, on the other hand, UM would immediately owe BYU a million dollar cancellation payment in cash, and on top of that would lose probably another factor of that on game revenue and food/merchandise sales, as well as being in violation of the SEC television contract. Not to mention owing tens of thousands of season ticket holders refunds. The economic impact of this plan is simply immense on several levels.

    • Jim White says:

      Gosh. All these years I had respected organized labor for the way they have improved the plight of laborers around the globe. I’m very disappointed to learn now that one of their primary tools, the strike, is a childish action.

  18. bloopie2 says:

    Further to my notation that “they’re just kids”, I think that my man Johnny Football (age 23) should be forced to room with another single guy on the team who is more, shall we say, “sober” in demeanor. Or with a nice married couple. (Grandma?) How can we give an NFL team discretion to order that?

  19. bloopie2 says:

    Scrolling through the channel guide just now, during the innumerable timeouts in the Eagles-Cowboys No-Defense-So-Everybody-Scores fourth quarter, I came on a classic movie that, unfortunately, is not suitable for late night viewing – Deliverance. That’s one of those films you can only watch a handful of times in your life. Beautifully done, but too unsettling.

    • orionATL says:

      re #85

      the wins the good news.

      but did they have to take it out on the falcons :)

      p.s. your new q’back looked really good, and his size makes kapernick look a munchkin.

  20. John Casper says:

    Missouri players, who are descendants of the slaves, have significant leverage.

    “Missouri hunger strike: Canceling game with BYU would cost Mizzou $1M”

    IMHO, it’s the white supremacists who are applying the real pressure on Wolfe. They want him to revoke the players’ scholarships.

    I wonder if this will cause the NCAA to rethink their position on a players’ union?

    Any discussion of a revenue stream to pay college football players has to start with the NFL owners. Unlike MLB owners, the NFL owners have “socialized” the vast majority of their player development costs onto the taxpayers.

    Will the NFL owners “lock-out” their players to show “solidarity” with President Wolfe?

    • bmaz says:

      And what is “your” solution to cure the ills these players and others complain of? Do you support McCarthy style campus wide witch hunts for closet racists? Immediate expulsion for any collaborator without due process? Perhaps some kind of unconstitutional clampdown on free speech?
      For all you cheering on this action in MO, what is your goal, what is your acceptable remedy? What more should this asshole Wolfe do to make these aggrieved players and others safe from constitutionally protected free speech? Yeah, I know it seems all morally justified to just blithely support this effort, but you ought to have some goals other than simply lashing out. And I am not seeing one lick of that. The road to unconstitutional free speech hell is paved with the facially feel good motives such as these. The university has denounced racism in its midst generally and specific as to the complained of instances. The university has offered a dialogue to seek reasonable and legal solutions. But none of that, even though that is what is legally and constitutionally permissible, want anything to do with something so logical. No, like those dear entitled Ivies spitting on administrators at Yale, they all want a perfect and inviolable “safe space” with which to never be insulted or confronted with anything that possibly interrupts their feelings. That, of course, is not how the First Amendment or life works, but dammit that is what they want, and they will wreak economic hell until they get it. Damn the Constitution. Yay college students; brilliant plan.

      • Jim White says:

        I don’t profess to have a complete knowledge of what is going on or even to know all of the demands of the group organizing the protests, but as someone who has been around college campuses for the last 40 years, I can tell you that any movement that starts with a small group of minority students, expands to include scholarship athletes, then a full team and then the coaching staff as well and then even expands to include both the graduate student union and the faculty union, there simply is no way that there is not a “there” there. Such disparate factions on a campus virtually never come together for a single cause and yet they have in this instance. Something big is going on in Columbia and its proximity to Ferguson can’t be ignored. This speaks to me of a longstanding divide between the administration of the university and the on-campus community. Sparking a real conversation can only be a positive.
        If athletes are willing to risk their scholarships, graduate students risk their fee waivers and stipends and faculty risk their jobs (face it, in a Republican dominated state, all those things are at risk regardless of any written agreements to the contrary), then a virtually unprecedented movement is coming together. Other university administrations have to be shitting their pants this morning fearing that the movement will spread to other campuses.

        • bmaz says:

          Who said any of that should be ignored? I am asking if there is any constitutional, legal and viable plan in the offing other than just extorting the ouster of a college President that does not, really, seems to be the issue other than as a figurehead to slash out at.
          Got plan? Also, what other things in university life are you so eager for this coalition of the aggrieved to dictate without any real logical plan? Are there other Constitutional provisions you are glibly willing to sacrifice at their putative alter in addition to free speech? How about due process (which is already under severe attack on college campuses)? How about the takings clause of the 5th Amendment, should any student uttering even slightly offensive speech simply have all their property forfeited? Where does this constitutionally end? If you and the students cannot answer such basic questions, I suggest this is pretty ill conceived.

          • Jim White says:

            Waaay out on the wrong tangent here. I expressly started my comment by saying I had no idea what the protestors wanted nor what I thought was the right outcome. I was just commenting on how the entire community had come together to say “no more”. This is a sign of a failed system. The fact that Wolfe has now resigned makes it look to me like the fall of the Soviet bloc when the entire citizenry took to the streets to say the system had completely failed and they no longer would be a part of it. Did they know what they wanted or have a constitutional list of what should be done? No. They just knew that what they had then was an utter failure.
            Mizzou now gets a restart. Let’s see if anything good comes of it. But nobody has gotten their constitutional rights trampled here. A community whose rights had long not been considered at all finally said “enough” and the rest of the community recognized that and joined them. I, for one, celebrate them and wish them the best in putting things back together in a way where everyone has rights.

            • bmaz says:

              “Failed system” my ass. Where is the evidence of that?? Cause the only specific examples I have seen are all horrid and loathsome, but surely protected free speech. Keep in mind that constitutionally protected free speech is not just that which you and the delicate students at MO like, it is that which makes your blood boil and that you hate. That is how it works, and it is all protected. So, Wolfe has “resigned”. Big fucking whoop. What is the plan now? I will keep asking that because I have never seen any intelligent and cognizable plan other than the extortionate head hunting of Wolfe. Got a plan other than pablum like a “reset”?

              • Jim White says:

                But let’s turn this around. Show me where anyone has had their constitutional rights denied or even where anyone has suggested that such happens? Where exactly did you get that? Because so far, I’ve only seen YOU suggest that that is the only path to cure the ills the students have pointed out. I haven’t heard them say to deny people their rights of speech. They’ve demanded Wolfe resign because he failed to lead on the issue, and he did. But protesting a failed leader and demanding their resignation is neither new, unprecedented nor unconstitutional.
                Should Wolfe feel that his rights have been violated, he is of course free to seek redress in the courts.

                • bmaz says:

                  What the fuck was Wolfe supposed to do?? He is the so called “failed leader” you so easily bandy about because he did NOT crack down on constitutionally protected free speech and engage in witch hunts for supposed racists on campus.
                  And, until you, Peter or these aggrieved students can minimally muster any plan other than such rights infringing moves that will guarantee these students their safe space, free of all random incidents from peer students, this is a load of shit. If there was one single shred of allegation that UM ran an institutionally racist setting and/or that this was indigenous to the classroom, then I would agree with you. Alas, these is not one such shred I have seen. None. Instead, it is people thinking that they are not “protected” from constitutionally permissible, nee protected, speech.
                  Yeah, it is rough and uncomfortable to look at it that way, and to realize that is the fact. Sorry. The Constitution does not protect rights because they are easy, or because they make your heart warm and fuzzy, or even because the majority agrees with them. It protects exactly what has been identified by these “protesters” as being the root of their action. You don’t have to like it, but it is a fool that willingly erodes that because it makes them all happy inside.

        • orionATL says:

          te #94

          this sounds like a very good estimate of what is going on at u miss (couldn’t resist :) ) at the moment. thanks.

      • orionATL says:

        bmaz, this is not a black-white (in the rhetorical, not racial, sense of that phrase) issue – either let racial taunting reogn or trash the constitutional protection of speech.

        this is a leadership issue. here you need leaders who don’t just give lipservice to decency, but who encourage decency with respect to other citizens’ sensitivities. you won’t, for a different example, find decent treatment of muslim-americans in communities where their religion and they are held in open contempt.

        the solution isn’t hate speech rules at the u., nor re-education classes. the solution is for leaders, e.g., univ prez & wealthy stiffs on the board of visitors to talk about the problem openly and caringly (if they can)

        and to exemplify and encourage tolerance. there is a lot of good social education that can be done between the extremes of hurtful, disreseed pectful speech and speech suppression.

        • bmaz says:

          Uh, no, that, at the root level, is exactly what is at issue here. The “solution” as you describe it seems to have long been going on and on the table as we speak. The “protesters” want more, they want their guaranteed “safe space”.
          Listen, I do not relish being the contrarian here, I sincerely feel for the concerns of the aggrieved students. By the same token, I have a pretty absolutist approach to infringement on constitutional rights. They are in enough peril already without being stupid and letting unfocused demands drive the result. YOU may not see any problem here. I do. But, then again, nobody listened to me and people like me when we started bitching about the erosion of Miranda and the exclusionary rule decades ago either and coined the term “slippery slope”. But, hey, what the hell, here we are at the bottom of the slope. Why not fall down another one if it makes some oh so delicate college students feel warm and cuddly!

          • orionATL says:

            contrarians are exceptionally valuable members of any society.

            that certainly is true for you.

            for you the core matter is protection of constitutional rights. that advocay is badly needed.
            for me the core issue is competent university leadership – imaginative and sensitive leadership – to avoid both scylla and charybdis. that cabability is badly needed in this situation, but has been lacking.

            we’ll see the quality of leadership of the next occupant of the hot seat. ferguson, from which this disturbance directly descends, did not cover missouri political leadership in glory.

      • John Casper says:

        President Wolfe got a lesson in the laws of supply and demand. College presidents are a lot less rare than the “blue-chip” athletes that the NFL owners need.

        “And what is “your” solution to cure the ills these players and others complain of?”

        A “strict construction,” of the 7th Amendment, “In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.”

        “The Case For Reparations.”

        Per Modern Monetary Theory, the federal government can pay those reparations without raising federal taxes. “(Federal) Taxes For Revenue are Obsolete”

        And the attorneys who represent the descendants of the slaves will be compensated.

        • bmaz says:

          Well, that is a novel idea, a court of law! Could these aggrieved have sought out a court of law and tried the matter on the facts? Sure, but their factual underpinnings as far as “incidents” would not have passed the smell test and they would have lost. So, extortion is the only way for them to bust the Constitution!

          • John Casper says:

            How did they “bust” the Constitution?

            Wolfe chose to resign. If he felt he was being extorted, why didn’t he hire a lawyer and seek relief in the courts?

            OT, can the momentum be used to hold Bob McCulloch legally accountable for abusing the grand jury process in the Mike Brown murder?

  21. P J Evans says:

    Although Wolfe did not clarify if he would step down from his post, he said on Sunday, according to the Associated Press, that “change is needed.” He added that the university is formulating a plan to work on promoting diversity and tolerance.

    It UM doesn’t already have a plan to promote diversity and tolerance, then Wolfe and his predecessors haven’t been doing their jobs.

      • JohnT says:

        Me. I don’t know nothing from nothing.
        All I know, is that if Peter’s link at 57 is indicative of the atmosphere on campus and Wolfe did nothing at the time, or since, that is a good reason for him to be gone. Free speech is free speech, but he should’ve started some kind series of dialogues on race relations. And through that, the students could have come up with some kind of solution on their own
        But, it seems he did nothing, or a very very minimum, and the consequence of that, was that people felt he was overly dismissive and callous

        • bmaz says:

          Yeah? And what is it exactly that you THINK Wolfe should have done, within that which is constitutionally permissible?????
          Yes, Wolfe “chose” to resign. Now why exactly do you think that was?? Because he did it out of the goodness of his heart, or because a deal was cut to pay him off in the face of extortion by a bunch of football players?
          How was the Constitution “busted”? Well, all this has occurred over constitutionally protected free speech, but is objectionable because it hurt one interest group or another’s feelings. Okay, that part is done, the extortion worked. Now what? What in the fuck exactly do you think Wolfe or anybody else could have done to prevent the overt acts that have been described, and still stood on the legal side of the Constitution? I keep asking that question, and I will keep asking it until you and Peter and all the other do gooders have an answer. When you get one, let me know.
          Protecting the rights imbedded in the Constitution is not easy. Governments want to shortcut the 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th and 14th. Now the oh so precious and delicate college students in the US want to scrub the 1st and 5th. It looks oh so much better and morally justifiable with the college students doesn’t it? Not like torture, war and separation of powers on things we all hate, right? But the same principles are at hand, and the same damage occurs when they are given up for temporary expediency and personal feelings of justification. Again, the road to constitutional hell is paved with just such good intentions.

  22. John Casper says:

    “Well, all this has occurred over constitutionally protected free speech,”

    Did all this occur on a campus that receives federal and state funds?

    Doesn’t the University of Missouri have a handbook for faculty, staff, and administrators?

    Doesn’t the University of Missouri have a handbook for students?

    Do either condone or encourage white supremacy?

    IMHO, the use of feces is outside First Amendment protections. Have the feces been analyzed for DNA or other traceable evidence to determine from whom they came?

    I think we agree that U.S. terrorism statutes are far too broad, but are they applicable?

    Since President Wolfe held no one accountable for these acts, no one had the chance for their council to assert their First Amendment rights.

    • bmaz says:

      Yes, yes, yes and no, respectively. And, no, the mere use of feces is certainly not outside of constitutional free speech, without evidence it was a specific threat, to specific targets, of which there is no evidence whatsoever that I am aware of.
      Did I mention that this stuff is hard, and you have to want to protect the type of speech that makes your blood boil??
      Did the university do DNA testing? No, not that I am aware of. And where, pray tell, would you have them get the DNA to seek a match, even if they had? Some kind of DNA dragnet sweep of the entire student body?? Bring em all in for match testing?!?!
      As to you comment at #114, is there evidence Wolfe and UM did not do that as to root education? Cause I have not seen one iota of that. In fact, University of Missouri has always had a good reputation as far as I have known.

      • John Casper says:

        “As to you comment at #114, is there evidence Wolfe and UM did not do that as to root education? Cause I have not seen one iota of that.”

        Under Wolfe’s Presidency, was any student, faculty, administrator ever held accountable in any way for white supremacist speech/actions on campus?

        Without that accountability, the “hard” work, to which you referred, cannot start.

        This morning billionaire Bill Ackman (Harvard undergrad and MBA) made an unfortunate statement about Koreans.

        “Bill Ackman made an awkward comment about Korean people and why pyramid schemes work so well with them”

        Ackman’s comments will cost him and his company, Pershing Square Capital. That’s a shame, because it marginally helps a pyramid scheme, Herbalife.

        • bmaz says:

          Yes, there is absolutely evidence of that. One of the people shouting racial epithets was actually identified and caught, and subsequently removed from campus. Yes, there ARE constitutional issues with that too, but se that aside, what it does establish is that Wolfe and UM were willing to act where they could. And there was an attempt to engage in dialog that was rebutted by the mob who simply wanted Wolfe’s head. Listen, I am not there, and neither is anyone else here. I don’t know, but the actual specified evidence I have seen is BS. I am willing to admit Wolfe did not remedy all this; what I am saying is that there was no proper way for him, or anyone else, to prophylactically remedy this.
          There just is not, not if you believe in overriding constitutional principles anyway, an easy path to remedy. And that has been my painful, even if I am isolated, point. This stuff is bigger and more complex than this trite economic extortion by football players. Sure, it gives all the armchair quarterbacks of life a feels good moment, but they have accomplished exactly nothing but a symbolic sacrifice. Well, bully for them, now they can go back and play their ball. What a load of tripe.
          As to McCullogh, no. Sorry. There is absolute immunity for that. That immunity is not, however, necessarily constitutional as opposed to statutory and case law derived. It could be changed. Will that ever allow action against McCullogh? Nope.

          • John Casper says:

            Sentence/s = S.

            S 1,2,3.

            Then why did Wolfe resign?

            S4. The “mob” hiding from photographers, because of the lessons learned from the Occupy movement? “Why is a Mizzou Communications Professor telling reporters to “get out?”
            Prof. Click, the Communications professor, needs a good attorney and a P.R. firm. I’m not sure if it’s in federal or state court, or both.

            S. 5 – 8.

            Per my link above about Mr. Ackman, the University’s not fulfilling their mission if they don’t instruct students that while white supremacist speech is protected by the 1st Amendment, it will create problems for them in their future. Have any Missouri student complained that their First Amendment rights were violated? Despite numerous requests, Marquette University won’t release Gov. Walker’s records. State and federal law allow Gov. Walker to determine if his records can be released. Post-secondary institutions have latitude to confidentially educate students in these matters.

            S. 10

            They’ve educated the Power-five conferences and Notre Dame about all the leverage they’ve lost by opposing a players union. If this were a wildcat strike, the University could have sued the union for the $1M forfeiture fee.

            S. 11-12 Their head coach and his assistants supported them.

            S. 13-15. Appreciate the response. Here in Wisconsin the elites are challenging prosecutorial immunity. Like the protesters at UM, they’re very anxious to hide their identities. They’ve launched multiple law suits, state and federal against Milwaukee D.A. John Chisholm, his successor in the John Doe prosecution, Francis Schmitz, and some of the judges. Per attorney @Brendan_Fischer, Mr. Schmitz could appeal the state Supreme Court’s halting of the John Doe. The same “dark money,” that elected Gov. Walker elected four of them. Schmitz has not appealed and people I trust fear he won’t. “Prosecutors could appeal to federal court on justices’ failure to recuse”
            That allows Gov. Walker and the elites behind his “dark money,” to escape legal jeopardy. Schmitz and Chisholm don’t appear as confident as you are in prosecutorial immunity. It looks to me as though there’s a deal. If Schmitz won’t appeal to the Federal bench, the elites will drop their suits. If you have any advice for Mr. Schmitz, I hope you give it to him.

  23. John Casper says:

    “What the fuck was Wolfe supposed to do??”

    He was contractually bound to educate students, to prepare them for life and work in a diverse society.

  24. John Casper says:

    bmaz, when, if you get a chance, have time, I’d appreciate any thoughts you have for holding St. Louis prosecutor Bob McCulloch, or the judges who cleared him, accountable for abusing the grand jury.

  25. P J Evans says:

    This is what started the mess at UM, back in September. It has more details.
    I think the students have a point: Wolfe should have gotten out in front and said to everyone that this is not who we want to be.

    • bmaz says:

      Yeah, saw that long ago. Abhorrent speech? Sure. Constitutionally protected? Yes. something Wolfe or the University could ever, remotely, guarantee protection from? Not even close. I am dismayed and disheartened that Paxton Head had to suffer that. But such pretty much are the vagaries of free speech if one really believes in it.

  26. bmaz says:

    Aw, yes, here it comes: Now the University of Missouri “strikers” are live on CNN proclaiming their additional and further demands that “MUST BE MET IN THEIR TOTALITY”.
    I asked earlier what other university functions all the feel good do gooders were willing to cede to a band of students. Welp, here you go. Didn’t get any cognizable answer before, what you got now? Where you going to draw the line as to what can be extorted? How you going to deal with Constitutional conflicts? What you got?

  27. orionATL says:

    i just want to say this about that :) :

    the u. miss debacle could be taken to demonstrate what i believe to be the case –

    the rarest of all human talents, rarer than great athletic, musical, artistic, logical, linguistic, mathematical skill,

    is great leadership talent.

    one can wish for missouri that they luck into a president robert m. hutchins, a president lyndon johnson, or a pope francis.

    like i said, though, it’s the rarest and, hence, most valuable human talent.

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