BREAKING: Roger Stone Insists Russia Hacked the DNC

Last month, Roger Stone argued in his criminal case that the government knows that Russia did not hack the DNC.

Roger Stone is challenging the main underpinning of the search warrant applications supporting the warrants – the Russian government hacked the DNC, DCCC, and one Clinton Campaign official from locations outside where the computer servers were stored. First, Stone will demonstrate that the Government’s proposition is untrue.


The government’s agents knew that they could not prove the Russian state hacked the DNC or the other targeted servers, and transferred the data to WikiLeaks when it presented the search warrants to the various magistrates and district court judges.

The government debunked this claim last week.

That’s pretty interesting, given that the very same lawyers just argued in the DNC lawsuit that Russia definitely did hack the DNC.

The factual background and context of Plaintiff’s complaint cannot survive the Report’s significant and substantial findings supporting the Special Counsel’s conclusion that no American conspired with any agent of the Russian state to break in to the DNC’s computers (hack); steal any of its data, transmit any of its data to WikiLeaks, or aid in the public dissemination of that data.2

2 In fact, the Mueller Report explicitly states that the Office of Special Counsel’s investigation “did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.” Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III, Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interreference In The 2016 Russian Presidential Election, Volume I of II, 1-2 (2019). Furthermore, the Mueller Report makes abundantly clear that in April 2016 it was “units of the Russian Federation’s Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff (GRU) [that] hacked into the computer networks of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) and the Democratic National Committee (DNC),” not the Defendants. Mueller Report at 36.

Both here and elsewhere, Stone misstates what the Report found in really interesting ways, which I may return to in more depth (as it may indicate where Stone thinks the discovery he has seen suggests the government may be headed).

But for now, I just want to note that after insisting to Judge Amy Berman Jackson that Russia didn’t hack the DNC, Stone lawyers Grant Smith and Robert Buschel are arguing to Judge John Koeltl that Russia did hack the DNC.

I wonder what Donald Trump will say when he discovers his rat-fucker has given up on the hoaxes claiming Russia didn’t do the hack?

As I disclosed last July, I provided information to the FBI on issues related to the Mueller investigation, so I’m going to include disclosure statements on Mueller investigation posts from here on out. I will include the disclosure whether or not the stuff I shared with the FBI pertains to the subject of the post. 

127 replies
  1. Hops says:

    Was Stone one of the “members of the Trump campaign” or just Trump’s old buddy?

    What is the “Russian government” anyway, other than a nebulous association of Putin cronies, oligarchs, and mobsters…?

    • Americana says:

      Yes, Roger Stone was a member of the Trump campaign for a short period of time, 2 1/2 months or so. Stone then left the campaign. We’re more than intrigued as to the reasons why Stone left Trump’s campaign considering the roles Stone played w/Guccifer 2.0 and WikiLeaks. Not sure what you’re attempting to do in your post viz Stone’s attachment to Trump’s campaign or to Trump himself, but if you’re trying to be exculpatory, it’s not quite cutting it in my eyes.

      Not sure what you’re suggesting about the Russian government in your post. Yes, the high-ranking officials are all Putin cronies and operate under his orders. So what are you suggesting about the Russian government viz these events?

      • bmaz says:

        First off, who in the world is the “we” you refer to? Do you blithely include this blog, that you have been around for, by all appearances, a total of 16 days and 39 comments, most quite recently, in your “we”?

        Because “we” are not good with that inference.

        And, again, you cite Roger Stone supposed facts and infer like nobody here knows it, and that this blog has not covered it in far greater depth for years. This is not the right place to pull that kind of charade.

        Who are you, and what is your angle for being here? And, if you think you are going to blithely run roughshod here on this area, you are sadly mistaken. And the commentariat here is on notice of what you are attempting to pull.

        • Americana says:

          Oh please, when I’ve made mention of “we” in my posts, it’s because I’ve identified some other folks here who think as I do that Roger Stone is one of the unusual characters in the Trump saga who is likely one of the linchpins of Trump’s access to various players. If you find that so unusual, I’ll refer merely to me, myself and I from here on out.

          As for why I’m suddenly on empty wheel, it’s because I recently discovered your site and I’ve quoted you on other sites, specifically on The Atlantic Discussions. If you wish me to cease making mention of your site there, great, consider it done. But I think you’ll find that I haven’t misrepresented your site here or there on The Atlantic Discussions. You’re more than welcome to check w/your friends on the The Atlantic Discussions BB to see what they have to say.

          What on earth do you find so objectionable in that post of mine? I cited from the charging documents something I found very telling. We’re not allowed to do that? How does that conflict w/what you wrote?

          • bmaz says:

            Oh, please, as you would intone, you are back with the “we”. I have no idea what the “Atlantic Discussions” are, and seriously do not care. They have nothing to do with this blog. What I find objectionable is baloney, and you seem to specialize in it.

            • Americana says:

              That’s odd you don’t know what The Atlantic Discussions group is because several folks there are now mentioning empty wheel and Marcy by name ever since I started citing posts from here on there. Some of those folks are seemingly speaking about Marcy as if they’re personal friends.

              I don’t consider I specialize in “baloney” whatsoever. If you don’t allow intuition and facts to interact then just say so. I believe if you look through my first posts on this site, I mentioned that Roger Stone wouldn’t likely be able to maintain his claims once the legal action started. Lo and behold, here we are… Stone has changed his story.

            • Americana says:

              Here, investigate The Atlantic Discussions. Ask around and see if I’ve directed folks to the Empty Wheel blog only to have folks mention Marcy Wheeler by name as if they’re friends of hers. There are nights on TAD when politics is permitted and others when it’s not. empty wheel filled those nights for me when TAD didn’t have political discussions or didn’t have extensive reporting on Trump stories. I’ll see if those posters who seemed to know Marcy Wheeler will relay their opinions re me.


              • Rayne says:

                First, I can’t speak for bmaz but I don’t know anything about The Atlantic Discussions because I spend what free time I have here either writing or moderating, and second, Disqus as a business is a POS.

                Disqus is also a POS platform because one can’t simply execute a simple search on all threads to pull up whatever it is you’re referring to.

                Whatever’s going on over there is utterly independent of this site — it’s The Atlantic, not emptywheel.

                • Americana says:

                  I’ll see if I can get some of the folks who know Marcy/emptywheel to visit empty wheel and clarify things.

                    • Americana says:

                      From what they’ve written there on TAD, I doubt they’re “over there because they don’t like it here” but I’ll leave it to them to clarify the situation. As far as I can tell, you are journalists who offer your own articles and you don’t offer lots of silly threads mixed in w/serious threads. TAD is more of an aggregator site.

              • Democritus says:


                So what you expect bmaz to kiss your ass because you just discovered EW and brought it up on TAD? If Marcy’s excellent work is being discussed it’s because of Dr Wheelers effort, intelligence and hard work.

                Not because you just discovered her and mentioned her in TAD a couple times.

                It is like all the people just now YEARS LATER catching about Nader, who was already a convicted paedophile, and are just now figuring out MBS likely arranged a blockade of Qatar ( that has the largest US AFB in the region) so Kushner could extort money from say a Canadian company majority owned by the Qatari sovereign wealth fund


                And if you aren’t royalty using the royal We is asinine.

                • Americana says:

                  I hardly expect anyone hear to kiss anyone’s ass never mind K mine. But you go right ahead and try to make some political hay for yourself by making a mountain out of what should be seen as a molehill. Pathetic.

                  • Democritus says:

                    Except I don’t have to pretend to speak for anyone but myself. That puffery is what hosed you in the first place.

                    Go pound sand.

        • Americana says:

          PS — If you’re so hung up on my use of the “we” in that post of mine because you felt it cast doubt on empty wheel overall so you felt compelled to call me out, feel free to change the pronoun to “I.”

      • Troutwaxer says:

        Are you suggesting that Stone left the Trump campaign the same way James Bond sometimes retires from Her Majesty’s Secret Service?

          • Troutwaxer says:

            I’m not a huge fan of bagging on people, and I was trying to give you a chance to have a real conversation. I won’t make that mistake again.

            • Americana says:

              Sorry, you didn’t get my joke. That sounded rude to you? I guess I was afraid to write anything else in response about Roger Stone given what had been written to me about making unsubstantiated claims about Stone. I live in a town w/three different taxidermists and for some reason I assumed Troutwaxing is something one does to fish mounts. Nothing rude intended in that remark, my apologies!

              • Mongoose says:

                For what it’s worth, I am interested in what you have to say. I also understand your use of “we.” Thanks

                • Americana says:

                  Thank you but… let’s move on. Given the environment, their concerns are reasonable.

    • OldTulsaDude says:

      I’ve wondered how the SCO defined Russian government and also campaign members.

  2. Americana says:

    So Roger Stone’s lawyers are now changing their story behind the DNC hack because their previous story was shot down by the government? How on earth do they expect to have this story hang together any better than their previous concoction?

    Stone’s lawyers are scrambling because the evidence is overwhelming that Stone was in communication w/the hackers and w/Wikileaks:

    Stone is therefore mistaken when he asserts (Doc. 100, at 6) that the “allegations in the warrant applications are nothing more than a collection of conclusory statements.” On the contrary, the 1030 warrant affidavits contain detailed descriptions of Stone’s communications with Guccifer 2.0, Organization 1, and the head of Organization 1, and, in some cases, detailed descriptions of witness tampering and false statements. See, e.g., Doc 109, Ex. 10 at ¶¶ 35-40 (discussing Stone’s communications with Organization 1 and the head of organization 1), Ex. 11 at ¶ 24 (discussing private Twitter message between Stone and Guccifer 2.0); Ex. 18 at ¶¶ 64-77 (relating to Stone’s conversations with Person 2). Moreover, the four false statement warrant affidavits set forth facts establishing probable cause that Stone committed the offenses with which he is charged in the indictment.

    • Mongoose says:

      Roger cannot think ahead to the consequences of his statements. He’s a lousy chess player.

  3. Avattoir says:

    Is it possible Stone and his South Florida Men legal beagles are operating under the theory that pleading aliter cum in allows him to plead contraria agere?

    So the Court didn’t go for ‘Rooskies never hacked the Clinton campaign’? Okay, then: how about ‘Rooskies DID hack the Clinton campaign’ but “The Court should dismiss the complaint for lack of subject-matter jurisdiction” and
    “Alternatively, it should dismiss the complaint for failure to state a claim.”
    And if the Court doesn’t go for that, how about ‘The Court should dismiss for an OVER-ABUNDANCE of subject-matter jurisdiction, and alternatively the Plaintiff’s claim is way too much like shooting fish in a barrel’?

    And if the Court doesn’t go for THAT, then …

  4. Rapier says:

    This is just fodder for his post pardon life which will revolve around talking about how he was wronged by traitors. He will probably use both arguments in the same interview with Hannity some day and the audience will believe every word and start thinking it’s about time to clean the gun again.

    • Jan says:

      It’s not about “some day” anymore. Discovering in the aftermath that WMD’s didn’t actually exist is not good enough anymore. The fight for truth is now because Lies and gaslighting from powers are Instant on Twitter et al – and they must be fought against in the Now – and not to be something that is revealed years later and too late to the general public, who will have forgotten for the most part anyway.
      Which is why I believe Congress is losing ground each and every day they wring their hands. Thank you Marcy and EW – you are in the Now. :-)

  5. Jenny says:

    Stone has a tattoo of Nixon on his back. Speaks volumes about him.
    If Stone is found guilty and goes to jail, Nixon goes with him.

  6. Reader 21 says:

    Awesome post EW—thank you for your stellar work, once again.

    Btw anyone else catch the rat fvcker’s reference to having known Individual-1 “for 40 years”—a shot across the bow, perhaps—methinks the Nixon-tatted rat fvkcing race-baiter may not look forward to a stint in the gray bar hotel…

  7. Eureka says:

    A favorite little old book, _How to Lie with Statistics_, disabuses one trick called, “the truncated range.” For example, see Stone filing footnote 2, quoted above.

    Adding (because they chose to cite that “Trump campaign” part): not sure they can be credited with gaming it out this far, but the “de-distancing” from the campaign in the Third Motion to dismiss (ca. 3-4-19) that I keep wondering* about may be close in time to when Barr/WHCO/WH etc. were aware of such language in (impending) MR (if even by verbal assurances of Rosenstein).


  8. Viget says:

    Lol re Stone. His lawyers seem to be cooking up some big vats of spaghetti.

    OT I know Nader isn’t technically part of the Mueller indictments, but it turns out there were sealed indictments after all, just not in DDC…. Nader is a big get for the quid pro quo. Hopefully, this will lead to nabbing Broidy and eventually Barrack.

    • AMG says:

      the nader arrest is def. interesting, though on the surface, it appears to be unrelated:
      “This case was brought as part of Project Safe Childhood” and “is being investigated by the FBI Washington Field Office’s Child Exploitation and Human Trafficking Task Force, composed of FBI agents and local, state and federal partners.”
      here’s the timeline:
      – nader picked up at dulles on january 17
      – nader interviewed january 19 and 22 according to citations in the mueller report
      – child pornography found feb 12
      – files saved to hard drive march 5
      – warrant sworn out march 16
      – affidavit filed april 19
      – arrest warrant issued april 19

      in your opinion, is there an active strand of what was the mueller investigation that would want nader?

      • viget says:


        Here’s an excerpt from a long post I did on this before:

        10. Several media reports have noted that Tom Barrack, Trump’s Inauguration Committee Chairman, has been under investigation for funneling illegal inauguration committee contributions from foreign nationals, including Russians. In December 2018, the WSJ CONFIRMED a SDNY criminal investigation into the commmittee’s spending and corruption involving favors for donors. This investigation was predicated, IN PART, based on materials seized during the April 2018 raid of Cohen’s office.

        11. In February 2019, multiple media outlets reported that a wide ranging subpoena was issued to the Trump Campaign office, seeking documents regarding donations and favors promised to donors in furtherance of an investigation probing, among other charges, CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE UNITED STATES.

        12. Similarly, Elliot Broidy, friend of Trump and previously deputy financial chair for the RNC had his LA office raided by the Feds in March 2019, on a search warrant from EDNY looking into his ties into the 1MDB scandal and work done on behalf of Jho Low, the 1MDB bagman, to lobby Trump and funnel donations to his reelection fund.

        13. Both Broidy and Barrack have NUMEROUS ties to targets of the Mueller investigation, and in Barrack’s case, directly to Trump himself. The most prominent tie comes through George Nader, an important witness in the Mueller Report. Broidy and Nader were in business together trying to get consulting contracts from Saudis and Emratis in 2017. Broidy also has ties with Michael Cohen, in that Cohen arranged for hush payments to a Playboy model he allegedly got pregnant. Barrack and Gates were co-chairs of the inauguration committee together, and Barrack also recommended Paul Manafort, along with Roger Stone.

        14. YET — Barrack shows up a grand total of 4 times in the Mueller Report (all dealing with an FBI interview he had to confirm that he recommended Manafort as a campaign manager). Broidy — not even once. Why is that do you think?

        Granted, a bit circumstantial, but Broidy is def involved in 1MDB, and has ties to Trump through Michael Cohen and hush money payments (not to mention fundraising and dep finance chair of RNC). Broidy is well known by MBS and MBZ, and has business ventures with both KSA and UAE along with George Nader.

        So Nader could spill a whole lot on Broidy. If you get Broidy, you can get to Kushner and other Trump family members, not to mention put more pressure on Cohen.

        I suspect Cohen has not cooperated with SDNY (possibly EDNY as well) regarding Broidy, and that’s why they’re a bit peeved with him

        • Frank Probst says:

          SIDENOTE: For those of you who have never seen Patriot Act with Hasan Minhaj, he covered the 1MDB scandal in his most recent show. The segment is right after the one on the Indian elections.

    • Jockobadger says:

      Lol Viget – “big vats of spaghetti” => hitting the mattresses. Yep. Gangsters. JHFC.

      • viget says:

        Oh, I guess there is that too… I inadvertently made that allusion.

        I was thinking more along the lines of to fling against the wall and see what sticks…

  9. doctor pablito says:

    Breaking: Paulie Manafort is headed to Rikers Island, so that New York state can prosecute him better. How safe should Paulie feel there?

    • emptywheel says:

      He’s in solitary, so he should be safe. But he’ll be a lot less comfortable than he was in Club Fed, which gives him another opportunity to rethink the wisdom of protecting Trump when Trump can’t make these charges go away.

      [ed: fixed “more” for “less”]

        • Vinnie Gambone says:

          The stress is going to kill Manafort. His ass is already so tight you couldn’t pull a pin out of it with a tractor, and that is just on the ride over to NYC. Real deal horrors are waiting for him. Just the noise in a prison can make a pasty old white guy crazy. The sweet nothings whispered ain’t sweet and they ain’t nothing. People are going to crack him just to say they did.

          Some reporting alludes to possibility the pedophile president will feel sorry for Manafort and go ahead and pardon him. Just as they say Trump is goading democrats to impeach him so he can gloat over their failure, could NY State folks be moving Manafort to Rikers to yank Trump into a pardon knowing it will smell really bad to average taxpayer ? Had manafort or Stone pulled this shit in Russia they’d be dead. Russians are laughing at us.

          • Fran of the North says:

            If he’s being moved based upon an upcoming NY state trial, does a federal pardon do him any good? My understanding is that a presidential pardon is only applicable to federal offenses?

            • bmaz says:

              No. But were he pardoned, he quite conceivably could get bail during the pendency of the state case.

              • Fran of the North says:

                Thank you for the confirmation sir. You and the other regulars have taught an old dog some new tricks. :)

      • leu2500 says:

        But with the Mueller investigation ended, hasn’t the window for Manafort to trade info for less prison time closed? Or do you think SDNY, for example, might be interested? Barr certainly isn’t interested.

      • P J Evans says:

        did you mean “a lot less comfortable” in Rikers? (Because I can’t see it as being nicer than a Club Fed.)

  10. Molly Pitcher says:

    Colin McEnroe/Danbury News Times with a Dr Seuss look at Robert Mueller:

    Oh, the cases Mueller found!

    I’m off and away.

    I’ve made my report

    And I’ve said what I said.

    I am not coming back.

    Just consider me dead.

    I assembled a lot

    Of the facts that you need.

    What I plainly forgot

    Is how few of you read.

  11. earlofhuntingdon says:

    (London, June 3rd, (c) WeePress)

    “An English teenager living near Stansted airport, near London, greeted the arrival of the President’s Air Force One with an unusual sign: “Oi, Trump” and a giant penis mowed into his lawn.

    “President Trump was not upset by the greeting from Ollie Nancarrow. In fact, he has extended to Ollie a rare visa and work permit to become head groundskeeper for his American golf clubs. That may be because the proverbial “young staffer” suggested to the President that Ollie had attempted to make the penis life-size, but ran out of turf.”


  12. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Theresa May – already turfed out as prime minister by her party – still gives “Donald” a lesson in speech making. Trump, standing next to May, is ignoring his earwig because he doesn’t understand a word she’s saying anyway. What he does hear – special relationship bullshit – he disagrees with. And he’s pissed off he has to put off golfing to listen to her.

    As for his own speech, he reads June 6th, 1944, as if he’s never heard of D-Day. And what a waste! He could have put up such Great! condos on those beaches in Normandy.

    He’s insisting that other NATO members pay their “mandatory” two percent of GDP to pay for NATO. It’s not as if he or any of his staff have ever read what NATO members’ commitments really are.

    The “phenomenal” trade deal Trump says he’s offering the UK – once it leaves the EU – will lead to abandoned food and workplace standards (chlorinated chicken, GMO grains, beef, pork) and the forced privatization of publicly owned enterprises, especially the NHS. It will be a brave new world for disaster capitalism.

    • e.a.f. says:

      “forced privatization…..especially the NHS” As much as the American corporations may want to get into the health care business in other countries, in Canada, they’ve have been kept out. Our Crown Corporations are still intact also.

      Privately run corporations can be purchased by any corporation or country, which owns corporations, as long as they are approved by the federal government. Canada has rules around that.

      There is no reason to expect the trade negotiators from the U.K. to give up British health care, unless the government of the day is trying to destroy the British health care system.

      • P J Evans says:

        People I know online who live in the UK have a lot to say about the policies toward NHS in the last 30 years – they’re trying to force people to go private (or die).

  13. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Sadiq Khan? You mean the Mayor of London? (A slight delay in the earwig; every “Arab” name sounds the same to him.)

    Trump says that he won’t meet with Jeremy Corbyn, despite his pleas to meet: He’s “a negative force.” It was Corbyn who refused, for example, to attend Monday evening’s state banquet.

    Trump denies seeing any protests in London. They nearly filled Trafalgar Square, only one location, but were blocked from approaching Downing Street. He lives in a bubble.

    “Everything will be on the table,” in negotiating a US-UK trade deal, which includes mandatory privatization of the NHS. That will go over like a Trump balloon over the White House.

    Stopped clocks are right twice a day: Trump tells the departing prime minister that she’s probably a better negotiator than he is. And Trump ends Ms. May’s press conference.

    • P J Evans says:

      The “great crowds” he was babbling about yesterday weren’t there. I saw pics, and their were maybe tens of people there to watch him go by – there were more bobbies than anyone else. He’s round the twist.

        • harpie says:

          Me: “You lot look really busy. Were you expecting more people?”
          Police officer: “A few more.”
          Me: “It’s quite funny… Depending on your viewpoint, of course.”
          Police officer: “Trust me, it’s very funny.”

              • Rayne says:

                LOL attention old moderator dude, sometimes we take humor where we find it even if it’s in the crackpotty neighbor’s yard!

            • Eureka says:

              Also this thread, comments full of sympathy for Countess Peel for her pairing/ wtf? that we paid for Miller to be shipped there:

              “Kate and Mnuchin were paired up for the procession to the state banquet. Kellyanne Conway was paired with Prince Edward the Duke of Kent; Stephen Miller with the Countess Peel; Ivanka with British trade secretary; Dan Scavino with digital branding star/tech CEO Kathryn Parsons. ” (quote tweet/photos)

              • Rayne says:

                I don’t understand why all the family and the staffers like that miserable dreck Miller were in attendance and on our dime. It’s like it’s their last outing and they had to go big.

                Gods, I hope the hell it is their last big one before impeachment. And I want a good reason to stake that smarmy son of a bitch Miller into a chair before the House Judiciary. Believe me I am looking for that reason.

                I will say the bunch of them in formal wear have been entertaining. Professionals who deal with formal attire and with political events have been having kittens. The downside is that these cretins in crepe represent the U.S.

                • P J Evans says:

                  Tr*mp not only doesn’t have a formal suit that fits him properly (I won’t say well, because he’s too obese for “well” to even apply), but also doesn’t know how to wear one in the first place. And he looks like he’s sulking the whole time. The fat gentlemen of past centuries would be able to teach him how to do it, if he was at all teachable.

                  • Rayne says:

                    That sulking may have been in part to his own bad habits of not sleeping on the plane. I’ve read that staffers who accompany him dread doing so because he never sleeps and he’s constantly in their faces as if expecting to be entertained. If he arrived without sleep and had to keep a full schedule on arrival, he was probably an irritable bastard. Thought I saw he’d also fallen asleep during the Queen’s speech. He’s truly an overgrown toddler.

                    • P J Evans says:

                      I saw a pic of him apparently asleep during the Queen’s speech. That’s seriously rude.

                      (The news media keep referring to that outfit as a tux. No, it’s formalwear: white tie and tails. Black tie also calls for tails, but not quite the same kind of outfit. Tuxes don’t have tails.)

                • Eureka says:

                  One more for the ages: GET HIM, RAYNE!

                  LOL @CZEdwards: Melamine. Perfect.

                  I’ve been wondering what the Queen’s brooches-thread lady has to say this time..

                  • Rayne says:

                    Can’t recall if it was in that same thread that someone pointed out the Queen’s crowns have meaning behind them. She’s wearing the one which has rubies in it which were supposed to ward off evil.

                  • Eureka says:

                    Oh what a coinkydink, last year’s viral ~ ‘brooch shade analysis’ account has been suspended. Lots of folks looking for her, too.

                    This is a newer account, not sure if it’s the same person:

                    BroochWarfare: “All rightie. I think we’ve got enough photos in to do at least the main royals at the state dinner tonight. #BroochWarfare Our first contestant is, of course, QE herself…”

                    Original incisive thread from July 2018 (keywords might help with finding info for this visit), if it ever goes live again:

                    “#BroochDecoderRing The following data relies heavily on the work of the blogger at “Her Majesty’s Jewel Box”. If you swing by there (I will be linking), BE ADVISED THE BLOGGER WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS POLITICAL STUFF THAT IS NOT WHY SHE IS THERE so take it easy.”

                • Democritus says:

                  Ohhhhh thanks all for these links. Twitler is an oafish cad of outmost proportions.

                  (I’m trying to sound a wee bit silly to keep from losing my freaking mind)

              • e.a.f. says:

                saw Kate paired with the Munkin and thought, bet she never thought this would be part of the job. did feel some what sorry for her, but on the other hand, its good training for times to come.

                Trump’s family would of course go. They now have bragging rights and for their sort, that is important.

                As to other non essential Americans, wouldn’t be surprised if they either paid to go or there was some sort of trade. we have scalpers for concerts and basketball games, why not trump scalping tickets to a banquet with the Queen.
                From what I’ve seen of him to date, he’ll do anything to make a buck.

        • P J Evans says:

          I saw part of that yesterday at Kos. Yep, the crowds welcoming him to Britain were definitely underwhelming. (One of them said the crowds trying to get out of the park were bigger.) That isn’t easy to do; one of the things that I remember from visiting back in 1979 was that there are a lot of people in London.

        • earlofhuntingdon says:

          The photo of Jared and Ivanka at the window of Buck House, looking forlorn because not part of Donald and “Melamine’s” handshakes with the royals, is now infamous.

          They look like poltergeists painted by Grant Wood for, “Trump Gothic.” (A common observation, apparently.) The best caption for the soulless two-shot was in the Guardian: “The remake of the Omen is going well.”


            • earlofhuntingdon says:

              Forty million copies and two films says a lot, but the plot doesn’t fit as well as the book’s cover art. Jared and ivanka look more like Dorian Gray’s picture, not long in the attic, awaiting its first mottling.

              I like a caption in an item in the thread you link to. Under a picture of Ivanka, Don Jr and Eric, it reads, “Children of the Con.”

                • Democritus says:

                  Ha, I have an Jewish gay online acquaintance who has a running joke that he keeps twinkfaced Jared chained up in the basement for recreational… pursuits

                  He is like yes he is bringing back the nazi fascism, but that pretty face…

            • earlofhuntingdon says:

              Nice item in your twtr comments on the ghastly menu Trump offered Charles, Camilla and friends for dinner at the US Embassy:

              “Tomato salad, steak and chips, fruit salad, and ice cream.”

              Better than the fast food burgers Trump serves sports teams at the White House. But pretty close to the standard rubber chicken dinners served at countless teen sports banquets. On par with his tailoring. Trump makes an art of crudeness and permanent adolescence. Bluto’s revenge.

              • P J Evans says:

                Tr*mp also won’t take advice from people who know more about it than he does. Blame his Dunning-Kruger.

              • Molly Pitcher says:

                Holy Mackeral ! I just saw a picture of him in white tie from the state banquet. The idiot does not even know how to wear white tie. If there ever was a visible representation of lack of self awareness or the inability to listen to someone else, just get a look at how his waistcoat fits. It is the vest version of his damn too long tie.

                Then tonight’s menu, sheesh.

                I would give a lot to hear what the royal family says about him in private.

                from Philip Bump in the Washington Post this afternoon:

                “President Trump is not someone who hides his discomfort well. That comes through in his tweets, obviously, with his disdain or frustrations often only thinly veiled. At times, too, it comes through in his physical presentation, with Trump looking agitated or out of sorts.

                That was the case Monday evening, when the president and first lady joined Queen Elizabeth II and her family for a formal dinner at Buckingham Palace. Photos show a sullen-looking Trump standing next to the queen, hands at his side, a frown on his face. He looks uncomfortable, and one would be forgiven for assuming that he was.

                Photos of that meeting also made the rounds on social media for another reason: Trump’s formalwear didn’t quite appear to fit as one might expect. Charles, Prince of Wales, was similarly attired, in a jacket that appeared to be proportional. Trump’s, on the other hand, appeared to have some sort of apron, a splash of white fabric that didn’t quite seem to work. Bette Midler recommended the president fire his tailor.”

                • harpie says:

                  OMG I was wondering why I was hearing about Bette Midler first thing in the morning!
                  See Trump’s tweet:
         5:30 PM – 4 Jun 2019
                  [quote tweet]]
                  Washed up psycho @BetteMidler was forced to apologize for a statement she attributed to me that turned out to be totally fabricated by her in order to make “your great president” look really bad. She got caught, just like the Fake News Media gets caught. A sick scammer!
                  [end tweet quote]

    • harpie says:

      Trump met with Nigel Farage:
      8:26 AM – 4 Jun 2019

      CNN: Controversial British politician Nigel Farage has just arrived by car at the US ambassador’s residence at Winfield House in central London where US President Donald Trump is staying.

      9:31 AM – 4 Jun 2019

      Good meeting with President Trump – he really believes in Brexit and is loving his trip to London.

      9:48 AM – 4 Jun 2019

      Farage was spotted leaving Winfield House just a short while ago

      • P J Evans says:

        makes me wonder how connected to reality *Farage* is. Does he understand that whatever Tr*mp says is subject to revision within minutes?

      • harpie says:

        This is in response to Rayne’s comment at 8:42pm, about the Queen’s crown.
        Andrew Weisburd retweeted
        8:58 PM – 3 Jun 2019

        She gave him pens but he only uses a sharpie.
        She gave him a book but he does not read.
        She served wine made in 1900 when he doesn’t drink.
        He got cannons but she served, he did not.
        The brooch she wore was bought back from a Royal mistress. She be wee but she be fierce.
        Also… no red carpet at the foot of AF1 and
        a crown worn to ward off ‘illness’. [See screenshot]
        ^^^ Lotta folks saying this is all coincidence.
        FACT: Royal Family has been doing this for eons.
        Palace staff are not political appointees, number the hundreds & the Queen can address them all by first name.
        Given the meticulousness of everything else, nothing was a ‘mistake’. / ^^^ Problem with the Trumpkins is they’d only understand a pie in the face.

        This is the text about the “tiara”:

        The Queen’s Burmese Ruby Tiara is one of the most symbolic and personal pieces created for Her Royal Highness by the House of Garrad. The 96 rubies mounted in the tiara were originally given to the queen as a wedding gift from the people of Burma, intended as a symbol of protection against illness.

      • harpie says:

        THIS thread and story:
        6:46 AM – 5 Jun 2019

        New story: We identified five instances where Donald Trump planted stories or spread fake claims about the British royal family joining his properties in order to get publicity. [CNN link]
        In the examples, Trump would serve as an anonymous source, […] Wire services would aggregate […]
        In one instance a Buckingham Palace spokesperson said,
        “This story was concocted by Mr. Trump to secure publicity for his club.
        It is a matter of regret that he feels he can use the names of the members of the royal family to do so.” […]

  14. Buford says:

    so, this is what “plausible deniability” looks like…never a direct contact, never anything more than a subtle nod or clue….anything to deflect from the truth, and to provide cover for the escape…

  15. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Many here have long argued that nominating for president a centrist Democrat would be a losing proposition. Keith Spencer explains one reason why: It would disappoint the base and depress the vote, leaving an open field for the right. []

    He makes his point using a recent study by Thomas Piketty on the electoral effects of inequality. [] As with much of his work, Piketty upends a few sacred cows. Spencer:

    The donor base of the Democratic Party consists of a lot of pretty rich people who prefer the Democratic Party to be left on social issues but right on economic issues. The party elite see these wealthy folks as part of the party, and don’t want to nominate a candidate who accurately sees them as class enemies.

    Here’s the problem: The Democrats can do one of those things, but not both. Implementing progressive policies costs money (ignoring MMT). Finding it requires moving left on economic issues. That alienates large donors. Establishment Dems solve the dilemma by campaigning on progressive issues, but abandon them in office to appease large donors who don’t want to pay for them. Their standard excuses for that bait-and-switch include that the goals are just, but the timing isn’t right; the goals are unrealistic or can’t be paid for; the perfect should not get in the way of the good; and that they distract from the president’s agenda.

    Piketty’s paper demonstrates how that style of governance, that tactic for keeping large donors happy at the cost of frustrating Main Street Americans, is self-defeating. It confuses and frustrates voters. Having nowhere on the right to go but to demagogues who would harm them more, voters stay home. Or they fall prey to their longings and suspend disbelief to follow the empty promises of a Donald Trump.

    Elizabeth Warren is one politician who understands the dilemma. She avoids large donors and personal fund-raising. She focuses on policy, in part, because demagogues haven’t any, they have grievances. She does it, in part, because “it’s how we get there from here.”

    Bidenesque candidates who keep to the center lane will depress the vote and make America more vulnerable to demagogues from the right.

  16. Observiter says:

    I wanted to get back to the main topic…Now Roger Stone insists Russia hacked the DNC, rather than the opposite story Stone had been spewing that Russia had NOT haced the DNC. Does this (confusion?) actually surprise anyone. Look at his history of doing this kind of [shit], and also his long relationships with Trump and Manafort. They all were close with Roy Cohn. They all seem to conduct themselves similarly. Let’s not forget their participation with Nixon and the funny business that went on then, and also McCarthy. What kind of consequences did they face from actions during Nixon. And here they are again.

    Now that I’m ramped up, I’m going to diverge for a moment (sorry) re Roy Cohn and his “friends,” including McCarthy. I will never forget during McCarthy times what they did to the Rosenbergs, particularly Ethel, who I’m hearing was likely not guilty, but executed anyway. *This* is what the corruption of power is about, and who these “people” are.

  17. Savage Librarian says:

    Speaking of Susie Wiles, she gets around..,
    “Ballard Partners going national, opens D.C. office” – 1/31/17
    (excerpted from this right wing site)

    “Brian Ballard served as the finance chairman for Trump’s campaign in Florida, and was selected to serve as one of the finance vice chairs on the Presidential Inaugural Committee.”
    “And their relationship goes beyond politics. Ballard served as the Trump Organization’s lobbyist before the Florida Legislature for several years.”

    “Susie Wiles, who ran Trump’s successful Florida campaign, will also be joining the D.C. office. Wiles, a managing partner at Ballard Partners Jacksonville office, will split her time between Washington, D.C. and Jacksonville.”

    “Trump’s Florida lobbyist to open D.C. shop” – 1/31/17

    “President Donald Trump’s longtime Florida lobbyist and general-election fundraiser, Brian Ballard, plans to open a branch in Washington with a team that includes Reagan-era Ambassador to Venezuela Otto Reich.
    Joining Reich at Ballard Partners: Susie Wiles, who served as Trump’s Florida campaign manager; Dan McFaul, former congressional staffer for U.S. Reps. Joe Scarborough, Jeff Miller and Matt Gaetz; and Sylvester “Syl” Lukis, a former attorney for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, U.S. Attorney’s office in D.C. and the U.S. Department of State.”

    • Savage Librarian says:

      And Sylvester “Syl” Lukis of Ballard Partners has an interesting history as you can see below:
      “When Vicki Met Syl” – May, 8, 1997
      “What made Lukis wealthy was his knowledge of government and his personal acquaintance with Washington’s power elite, the latter summed up in a pocket-size black leather address book containing the home phone numbers of congressmen, top bureaucrats, and corporate chieftains. But although he lived and worked inside the Washington Beltway, Lukis derived most of his paychecks from South Florida.”
      “Nearly four years to the day since they met, Lopez-Wolfe and Lukis were indicted by a federal grand jury in Fort Myers on March 10, 1995. Each was charged with eleven felony counts of bribery, extortion, influence peddling, and mail fraud.”

  18. Vinnie Gambone says:

    The stress is going to kill Manafort. His ass is already so tight you couldn’t pull a pin out of it with a tractor, and that just on the ride over to NYC. Real deal horrors are waiting for him. The sweet nothings whispered ain’t sweet and they ain’t nothing. People are going to crack him just to say they did.

    Some reporting alludes to possibility the pedophile president will feel sorry for Manafort and go ahead and pardon him.

    Just as they say Trump is goading democrats to impeach him so he can gloat over their failure, could NY State folks be moving Manafort to Rikers to yank Trump into a pardon knowing it will smell really bad to average taxpayer ? Had manafort or Stone pulled this shit in Russia they’d be dead. Russians are laughing at us.

  19. earlofhuntingdon says:

    Trump’s conclusion about climate crisis after spending ninety minutes with Prince Charles, a fierce advocate for protecting the climate:

    “What…he really feels warmly about is the future.”

    His irony knows no bounds. More fully, he said,

    “[Charles] wants to make sure future generations have climate that is good climate, as opposed to a disaster, and I agree….[T]he United States right now has among the cleanest climates there are based on all statistics. And it’s even getting better because I agree with that we want the best water, the cleanest water. It’s crystal clean, has to be crystal clean clear.”

    “Trump” is a new five-letter synonym for “gibberish.” His next physical should include an assessment of stroke damage.

    • earlofhuntingdon says:


    • P J Evans says:

      I think they need to run him through an MRI and a CT scan. His brain has something really wrong with it.

  20. earlofhuntingdon says:

    This is how the media should correct a story they get wrong. []

    British and American news outlets misreported the death of a Dutch seventeen-year old author as “legal euthanasia.” That prompted a storm of outrage from mostly rightwing press. In fact, the teen, Noa Pothoven, tried to use the heavily regulated Dutch medical-legal protocols for euthanasia, but authorities rejected her request. Ultimately, she refused all nourishment and medical intervention, and died at home.

    Pothoven had been the victim of child sexual assault at eleven and rape at fourteen. She suffered from anorexia, PTSD and other chronic ailments as a result, and had frequently attempted self-harm. She had received extensive help, but it failed to alleviate her pain. Several outlets have so far refused to correct their misreporting.

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