NYT Falls for Trump’s Limited Hangout
Charlie Kirk and the President’s failson are very impressed with President Trump’s order that Pam Bondi seek to release grand jury transcripts.
Trump gave the order in response to a WSJ report describing a birthday letter, signed by Trump, included in a book that Ghislaine Maxwell made for Jeffrey Epstein’s 50th birthday in 2003.
It isn’t clear how the letter with Trump’s signature was prepared. Inside the outline of the naked woman was a typewritten note styled as an imaginary conversation between Trump and Epstein, written in the third person.
“Voice Over: There must be more to life than having everything,” the note began.
Donald: Yes, there is, but I won’t tell you what it is.
Jeffrey: Nor will I, since I also know what it is.
Donald: We have certain things in common, Jeffrey.
Jeffrey: Yes, we do, come to think of it.
Donald: Enigmas never age, have you noticed that?
Jeffrey: As a matter of fact, it was clear to me the last time I saw you.
Donald: A pal is a wonderful thing. Happy Birthday — and may every day be another wonderful secret.
WSJ describes that this book was examined by Epstein and Maxwell investigators.
Pages from the leather-bound album—assembled before Epstein was first arrested in 2006—are among the documents examined by Justice Department officials who investigated Epstein and Maxwell years ago, according to people who have reviewed the pages. It’s unclear if any of the pages are part of the Trump administration’s recent review.
But while there are titillating allusions in the letter, such as the reference to a new secret every day, there’s is not any conceivable reason why this letter would be presented as evidence against either Epstein or Maxwell. It does not overtly describe trafficking minor women at all.
The order that Bondi unseal grand jury materials will do nothing but impress people like Kirk and Don Jr, designed to create a likely unsuccessful drawn out legal fight in which, even if the transcripts were released, would not include this book.
SQUIRREL! Trump yelled, when cornered.
And it worked not just for Charlie Kirk, but also for NYT’s Glenn Thrush, a politics reporter who survived a Me Too scandal repurposed to cover DOJ. It took him 11¶¶ before he explained that a judge was unlikely to release any transcripts, and another paragraph before he explained that the vast bulk of the evidence is in FBI custody.
Mr. Trump’s stated desire to address the “ridiculous” publicity around the case may not be enough to convince the judge to release the transcripts. Grand jury transcripts are, under federal guidelines, kept secret to protect crime victims and witnesses. They are typically released only under narrowly defined circumstances.
Even if the transcripts are made public, which might involve months of legal wrangling, the evidence represents a fraction of material collected in the investigation. Over the past several months, dozens of F.B.I. agents and prosecutors with the Justice Department’s national security division were diverted from other assignments to review thousands of documents and a vast trove of video evidence, including footage from video cameras in the prison. [my emphasis]
If the grand jury evidence is a subset of the larger FBI stash, Glenn, then Bondi could release the letter herself, on her own authority, today. At least tell your readers that, Glenn, even if you don’t make the entire story, “Cornered by WSJ story, Donald Trump attempts a limited hangout.”
Thrush quotes Goldman making a point that there’s more in FBI custody, but doesn’t explain the import of it–that Bondi could release whatever copy of this letter the FBI has immediately.
Donald Trump is sufficiently concerned about this that he’s attempting to distract dim-witted people.
Including, apparently, NYT reporters.
Update: On Xitter, Thrush claimed this, in the third paragraph, alerted readers that Trump was affirmatively chasing data that would not have the letter.
The president cited “the ridiculous amount of publicity given to Jeffrey Epstein” for his directive, which falls far short of demands from some congressional Republicans to make public all investigative files collected by the department and the F.B.I., not just testimony presented in federal court.
This sleight of hand attempt is likely to backfire. Even though Trump won’t be mentioned in the GJ transcripts, the full ugliness of Epstein’s actions will be. Every picture and statement linking Trump with Epstein will become that much more damaging.
Trump: Release the pertinent transcripts.
(READ: Leave my name out of it,)
I visualize a ragged Trump chased by a dog, and Ben Stein standing in front of a classroom intoning “Pecker, Pecker, Pecker ….”
Those are dog bite marks on his legs.
They’re lying about that too.
OldTulsaDude, OT, but did you notice Gailard Sartain, alias Mazeppa, died last month?
wapo: Trump and Epstein had a relationship, but there’s no evidence of Trump wrongdoing
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/07/17/trump-epstein-relationship-records
WAPO can’t possibly know that there is “no evidence”. Trump’s DOJ is hiding the evidence. That’s the story.
And for a publication-journalist to use the word “wrongdoing” in this context might be doing IT wrong.
The Katie Johnson court filings disagree.
Glenn Kessler’s article is an execrable piece of “trust me” faux journalism containing numerous shaky-at-best claims. Kessler exonerates Trump mainly because Trump’s relationship with Epstein ended, or cooled, before Epstein’s legal troubles. But that’s an outrageous ducking of the known facts–Epstein’s known predation on minors goes back to the 1980s, when he and Maxwell bought their way into Interlochen Music Camp in order to set up their evil shop amidst the kids there.
The girl they started grooming at 14 there told her story at Maxwell’s trial, so that is a public record of events long before Trump split with Epstein. And he never really split with Maxwell.
Kessler whitewashing Trump’s record here smacks of corporate-speak. There’s no excuse for it in any case.
I always appreciate your comments, Ginevra. And I’m grateful for your bravery and courageous contributions. They mean a lot to me personally and they add significantly to the conversation. That’s why I know you will forgive me when I point out what looks like a misnomer in this comment. I think you mean Thrush, not Kessler. I can see how it could be an autotype error.
Name Alert:
NYT = Glenn Thrush
Washington Post = Glenn Kessler
Thanks, Sandor. And sorry, Ginevra. I stand corrected. As you may guess, I was thinking of Marcy’s post, not the comment thread.
SL, I should have made clear that I was referring to the article you linked to, which was by the Post’s Glenn Kessler. Thanks for calling attention to that oversight.
Both Glenns have their problems. Glenn Thrush, on TV at least, seems only now to have a dawning realization that maybe, just maybe, those Trump administration folks aren’t playing straight with us. I don’t know what happened to Kessler–he appears to have let his smug, self-righteous, hectoring persona take over his entire self.
re- Ginevra diBenc July 18, 2025 2:14 pm
“ Every so often I remember that Kessler gave Bernie Sanders like four pinnochios for saying “millions of Americans work two or more jobs” because it was like 10 million or so, some plural millions Kessler felt was insufficiently pluraled
https://bsky.app/profile/atherton.bsky.social/post/3lu7osu2i3s22
So, do Democrats submit amendments to everything about releasing Epstein files and having Patel, Bongino, and Bondi testify? Seems like an issue where Republicans will say one thing, vote another, AND THEIR BASE WILL NOTICE.
The MAGAts ARE noticing and they are pissed.
When US Attorney General Pam Bondi announced that there was no list and no conspiracy, she said, in effect, that the MAGA prophecy of “holding Democrat elites accountable for child sex-trafficking” was phony.
To MAGAts, this was akin to the Pope tweeting: “I’ve reviewed the files and Jesus didn’t rise from the dead. Thank you for your attention in this matter.”
Nick Fuentes summarized the MAGA frustration yesterday:
(WARNING: Graphic language)
https://x.com/Ronxyz00/status/1945842087561183732
Yeah, “graphic language” indeed! When Lawrence O’Donnell let this clip go unbleeped on his show it sure got my attention. I couldn’t believe I was looking at Nick “F**k you!” Fuentes with approval. Politics/steange bedfellows…
Lawrence assured viewers it would be bleeped hereinafter. But I have it on DVR.
Dems need to keep hammering this issue. “Pam Bondi has had the evidence on her desk since January. She could release it right now, if Trump ordered her to. What is Trump hiding?”
We know that Trump ordered Bondi to do so, because taking orders was the only type of USAG was going to have for Trump 2.0.
Trump told us that by way of complaining about previous USAGs who didn’t. (Jeff Sessions)
And NPR and PBS report Epstein stuff during thier death rattles in the House, where Epstein is a covering distraction.
Politico has a MAGAt defense story about the Bday greetings. J.D. Vance is quoted, “Does anyone honestly believe this sounds like Donald Trump?”
Well, yes J.D. Everybody believes it does. He always talks like this.
Trump told us that he grabs them by….. He also said he walked in on teenage girls getting dressed for his beauty pageant. His defense on sexual assault charges is that “she’s not his type.”. Like, maybe if she was prettier he would have done it.
Or looked more like one of his wives. Oh wait . . .
Odd error in the Wall Street Journal article: “Epstein and Trump spent time together in the 1990s and early 2000s”
Trump’s own comment knowing Epstein 15 years was from 2002, putting the start at 1987, when Trump was developing his investments with Bear Stearns, being personally managed by Ace Greenberg.
And from Wolff’s Fire and Fury:
And late 80’s Trump purchased Adnan Khashoggi’s yacht, then sold to Prince Talal a couple years later.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_5KR
Not sure why Wall Street Journal is shifting the Trump-Epstein relationship to a later date.
Even a couple paragraphs later in the WSJ article:
Here’s also Ghislaine and Robert Maxwell with Trump in 1989
https://www.newspapers.com/article/st-louis-post-dispatch-donald-trump-and/9383143/
And reporting
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/money-and-power/a33393615/president-donald-trump-ghislaine-maxwell-relationship/
Question I’ve seen thrown around is where Epstein got his m/billions.
Did he somehow snooker Robert Maxwell?
Doubt he “snookered” Maxwell.
But a theory I have seen is the money that Maxwell snookered from his employees pensions created a fund that Epstein walked away with. Maxwell sons took over the company after Maxwell died, and faced legal repercussions.
Zev Shalev at Narativ has discussed this as a possibility. I am not aware of he or anyone else has seriously investigated that and ruled it out.
There is some information on Greg O’lear’s sub stack suggesting a deeper history. Jeffery Weinstein also suggesting deeper connections.
Interesting. Some of Trump’s bonds were in the first Bear Stearns’ vehicles to tank, setting off the financial Jenga in 2008.
And that turned into a windfall for some of his vulture friends. Before the crash he said, “I sort of hope that happens because then people like me would go in and buy … If there is a bubble burst, as they call it, you know, you could make a lot of money.”.
Then the bubble burst and people like his pal Tom Barrack made out very well.
It is also believed that an Epstein April 2007 withdrawal from a high leveraged fund caused the Bear Stearns collapse.
Epstein invested in that fund right after the feds began investigating.
https://archive.is/1Lo62
Huh. That’s very interesting. Now I’m going to have to go back and dig through notes I wrote 7 years ago about Bear Stearns, Trump’s bonds, and Fusion GPS testimony before the House Permanent Subcommittee on Intelligence.
Rayne, I’m not sure about The Hill as a resource, but a google of ‘Ron Wyden + Epstein money’ turned up this from Oregon Senator (and finance nerd) Ron Wyden: https://thehill.com/homenews/5407262-epstein-financial-records-wyden-trump/
[Emphasis mine]
Thank God for Nicole and EW’s Friday chats, which I can hear as I drive, so I keep somewhat informed. Though damn, I sure miss the commenters here!
A week or two back on Nicole’s podcast, EW said that she thought this Epstein issue was the first time that there was traction to weaken Trump. I found it improbable. Not Elon? Not screwing Medicare? Not tariffs? But Epstein??!
Well, EW hit the mark, yet again.
Holy hell, what a fascinating turn of events…
FWIW: Trump has worked ‘catch and kill’ **for years** with David Pecker/ The National Enquirer — and so he probably assumed that he could continue to pull that shit with Murdock. It’s more than a bit interesting that Murdock seems to be telling Trump to take a flying fuck at a rolling donut, by ignoring Trump’s rage and simply publishing what (for a scandal monger like Rupert) is one hell of a lurid story.
Is Murdock finally putting Trump in his rear view mirror…? (And by ‘Murdock’, I mean an amorphous collection of media/tabloid interests.).
Meanwhile, Bondi seems to be at risk from Epstein – particularly if we all start to learn how the money flowed. On top of her role in the Florida mortgage fraud, turning a blind eye to Epstein’s ‘antics’ is one for the ages.
If Epstein was trafficking women from Eastern Europe, or Asia, it could make sense that the only records are bank records of transactions and transfers. Nevertheless, matching up those transactions with individual lives damaged by this whole mess… what a Herculean effort that would be.
============================
One addendum, not in the thread, if you’ll indulge me for The Good of the Order: the White House announcement of Trump’s ‘chronic vein insufficiency’ is not getting enough scrutiny IMVHO.
I have a close family member with this condition, and the implications are hideous. A doctor kindly, compassionately advised me, “Remember, the brain is a vascular organ. Try to monitor his cognition.”
IOW, the brain has no bones, no muscles: but miles of veins. The blood is pumped up to the heart, lungs, and brain from the lower extremities (your calf is the ‘heart’ of your lower body, which is why a daily walk is so important).
However, if you have ‘chronic vein insufficiency’, the body has a harder time pumping the blood up to the heart and the brain. The walls of the veins are slowly compromised, as the pressure weakens within them over weeks and months and years. As this process occurs over time, the fluid levels in the body become increasingly unregulated, and this condition is not fixable. (This leads, eventually, to pulmonary complications, and can exhibit as dementia.)
It’s interesting that Trump, now flailing and losing his MAGA support, is now showing swollen ankles and we are **finally** hearing about ‘chronic vein insufficiency’. No doubt the people around Thiel and Vance are keeping eagle eyes on this issue.
rOTL, nice to see you, and thanks for that tidbit about Wyden and the money moving through Epstein. Gee, why don’t we know more about the money’s origins and final disposition already?
Thanks also for the feedback about “chronic vein insufficiency.” If only this condition’s outcome could be more readily calculated.
But Biden’s old, let’s not forget that. LOL
This isn’t the first time Wall Street Journal obscured the reporting on origin dates involving someone connected with American and Israeli intelligence services.
Shortly after Smirnov was arrested, WSJ reported that Smirnov began working with Nayflish/Lavrenyuk in 2006 shortly after moving to the US.
But, per a 2/23/24 letter to the judge filed by the son, the family has “known Alex Smirnov for 25 years.” Which would be roughly 1998-1999.
This letter was filed a few days before WSJ published their article painting the relationship as beginning in 2006.
[Coincidentally, roughly 1998-1998, Smirnov began work for an Israeli spy agency – per Smirnov’s lawyer and the judge at Smirnov’s sentencing hearing.]
[And, coincidentally, per the WSJ article, Smirnov has a similar practice as Epstein – making a business out of hunting down missing or confiscated assets]
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/informant-charged-with-lying-about-bidens-flaunted-fbi-ties-for-financial-gain-fcf86af2
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/68254959/united-states-v-smirnov/
ECF 33-3
Reporters sometimes get lost in the Tik-Tok weeds and sometimes are too cautious because of fear of lawsuits and other forms of retribution. And sometimes they chase after the shiny baubles and miss the big story.
Is there any doubt that Trump and Bondi are not willing to release the Epstein Files, as Trump had promised? The big story was the failure to release the files as promised. But now the big story is why won’t they release the files. The news media is beginning to connect the dots but is rather opaque (See, for example, Luke Broadwater’s article about timelines in The NY Times). Trump and Epstein were buddies during Epstein’s sex abuse and trafficking. They partied together. They traveled together. Trump was a lecherous playboy. What is the likelihood that, at a minimum, Trump knew about Epstein’s activities and did nothing to stop it?
One of Epstein’s victims who testified publicly said, when asked about Donald Trump, that she had often seen Trump in Epstein’s house. She described the house as decorated with obscene photos of naked girls in compromising poses; she did not use the term child pornography, but it sure seems apt to me. You know…allegedly.
She found it impossible to imagine Trump being unaware of what was going on.
Maybe a reporter will ask Trump when he first realized his buddy was a pedophile.
The news media have been failing with regard to Trump for a long time.
@RitaRita July 18, 2025 at 2:54 pm
“…may every day be another wonderful secret…”
Well, at least on Epstein’s 50th birthday, Trump knew.
Is there any reason to think that Patel and Bongino’s FBI wouldn’t simply destroy or alter whatever “inconvenient” evidence they have?
I thought only the Trump 1 Secret Service could do that and get away with it. Are you saying this administration DOJ can also do it?
I’m asking what, or who, might stop them. For instance, if copies of the records exist in places where the current administration could not access them, that would make it more difficult. Failing that, obviously there are statutory prohibitions, but as a practical matter it’s unclear to me what, in the present circumstances, those might or might not be worth.
I’ve alluded to this before, but now I can’t help but reiterate it. In my own tumultuous experience with grievances and litigation while Susie Wiles was a mayoral administrator, I came in possession of a greeting card (sent through the USPS) that became a fortuitous piece of evidence.
While it never actually became part of any litigation, it did serve to put people on notice. And it led to some significant personnel changes. It also gave me some very valuable insights into skullduggery afoot.
I believe, in a roundabout way, it was an essential piece of information that contributed to the reasons why the City settled with me even after I lost my case in federal court. That’s not to say that solutions happened overnight. It was a long, drawn out process.
But this birthday greeting from Trump to Epstein just reinforces for me my fractal perception of our mysterious universal connections.
Also, is there reason to be skeptical of the information WSJ reported? Like, are they getting Dan Rathered?
Maybe taking something real, like the birthday book and that DOJ has looked at it.
The Trump letter seems like something too on the nose, too good to be true. The letter with the Trump-Epstein conversation almost sounds like something AI generated, with a prompt to write something about secrets and how well they know each other.
I dunno, I’m super skeptical that there’s going to be something doctored thrown in as a Get Out Of Jail Card for Trump to later point to discredit his actual relationship with Epstein.
“…The Trump letter seems like something too on the nose, too good to be true. …”
For me, Trump getting out in from of the WSJ aritcle, almost IMMEDIATELY, is the tell that there is most likely a kernel of truth here. The downside is, if this is WSJ letter is ginned up ala Dan Rather, then we’re all screwed as Trump smugly akes a “fake news” victory lap and we’ll never hear the end of it.
Last night on MSNBC, Lisa Rubin and Vaughn Hilliard shared reporting that WSJ had reached out to Trump about this story on Tuesday night. Trump’s reaction was to demand that it not be published (there was no mention of him challenging its authenticity at that time) and repeating that demand until WSJ did, indeed, publish the story.
I was already wondering how all this might dovetail with Trump firing Maurene Comey “on 2nd Amendment grounds” Wednesday. Had Comey slipped this item to a friend of a friend of Rupert Murdoch in retaliation?
No, it seems like the reverse. If anything, firing her was the bizarro retaliatory move of the enraged President who knew his “wonderful secret”–the one he shared with the world’s most infamous pedophile–was about to emerge.
Article 2 grounds, not “2nd amendment grounds”
Apparently he’s decided that “exclusive” shouldn’t be read the way every publication in the world uses it..
Hypothetically there could be a real birthday book for Epstein and with a letter written by Trump, that the DOJ possesses or has taken evidence from. So when WSJ calls Trump for a response, he recalls it.
But then WSJ reports on specific contents of the letter that are fabricated. Which would, in the eyes of the public, discredit the broader story.
I’m just being cautious, and want to see further corroboration, including chain of custody.
In my own experience (mentioned above) I was flabbergasted that the greeting card I received had actually been sent and signed. And the person who sent it had completely forgotten about it. Nor did they perceive the potential ramifications.
It was quite shocking. And that person relied on their position of power and control to make it go away. They had a meltdown when it didn’t. It got very ugly for a long time. But I prevailed. It was all very real.
And knowing some of the modus operandi of people around (even tangentially) Trump, I have every reason to believe that they would delight in the speculation you propose. But I have more faith in people like Maurene Comey and others who actually may have seen the evidence.
In some ways, we’ve come a long way since the 1980s, the Bonfire of the Vanities and Greed is Good ’80s (though in many we’ve slid back).
Back then, a senior mid-level exec at a large company i worked for could give his secretary an anatomically correct birthday cake, and wonder what all the fuss was about. Even his superiors tried to argue that, ‘But he makes a lot of money!” Saner heads prevailed and it was the start of company-wide anti-harassment program, but it took some doing.
Greeting cards and skullduggery.
Sounds like a good Netflix series.
Your questions about authenticity go right to the authoritarian’s playbook. They always flood the zone with so much shit and obvious lies, that eventually people aren’t sure what to believe.
Shades of Nixon and the tapes. Deja vu all over again. Where’s our Barry Goldwater?
The whole Trump/Epstein story. As sordid as it is, is a distraction from the real damage Trump is doing.
The damage that Trump is doing is because his base supports the damage. What needs to be done is driving a wedge between Trump and his base in order to slow Trump down. Trump is nothing without his base. The only thing that has registered with Trump’s base to look negatively at Trump, is Epstein.
Use anything that works.
Exactly!
A significant segment of MAGAworld thinks that the Elites are ripping them off. They think Trump is betraying the Elites in order to help ordinary citizens. They trust him. The Epstein revelations and Trump’s cover up are important because they help that segment realize that Trump is not betraying the Elites. He is protecting them.
Elites are ripping off the rubes, but it starts with Donald Trump.
Storming the Capitol on J6 was all about “They think Trump is…. They trust him.”
That Epstein and Maxwell were able to get away with setting up an operation to procure and rape minor girls for at least a decade and a half and that the Bush administration or Alex Acosta on his own let Epstein off with a minor charge and a slap on the wrist should be a source of outrage regardless of which political aisle one falls on. There are certainly many more people who are culpable. The transcript of this interview (https://gregolear.substack.com/p/bloody-mob-sht-an-interview-with) hints at what else may be involved and indicates why notwithstanding the innate nuttiness of MAGA, their inchoate feeling that immoral ‘elites’ are involved resonates. Their ‘elites’ in reality are certain immoral avaricious wealthy people like their adored Trump but it is nevertheless highly important that we need to identify most of the culprits and change things structurally so that people doing what Epstein and Maxwell got away with for so long get caught, prosecuted and stopped quickly.
That somebody as publicly lecherous and dismissive of women as Trump could become POTUS twice is indicative of the need for radical change in how women and girls are viewed. Dismissing the furor over this issue as a distraction is counterproductive in bringing about such a radical change in how girls and women are viewed. Trump’s metaphorical raking over the coals over this issue may well prevent another rapist POTUS.
Yes. This. Thank you – well stated.
@Ramona Rosario July 18, 2025 at 5:41 pm
It’s just not Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. It’s John Casablancas and Gérald Marie. Trump’s modeling agency and beauty pageants were designed for Trump to be around teen girls to “invite for dinner” and be able to sit on his lap and be photographed. Casablancas and Marie used Elite for the very same purpose.
In the 80s and 90s, there was an entire industry of procuring teen girls under the guise of breaking into the fashion and modeling.
For the record, this is how Melania Knauss entered into Trump’s orbit.
Release the “credible/relevant” info.
Count the “valid” ballots.
Punish the “convicted” criminals.
Administer the “safe” vaccines.
How does Charlie Kirk fit that huge head up daddy’s backside?
The day can’t come soon enough when we can all:
‘Say farewell to the Trumpers!
We will hear them no more.
But their lying and kvetching,
Will nauseate us still,
So let’s slam their fingers in the half-closed door!’
The voiceover at the beginning of this post, “Voice Over: There must be more to life than having everything,” the note began.
Donald: Yes, there is, but I won’t tell you what it is.”; seems pretty similar to Mary Trump’s book about her Uncle Donald. Too Much and Never Enough.