Victory Is Mine!!!!

Finally, a TradMed source who knows how to read!!!!

But in looking at the substance of the accusations, it increasingly looks like [Nancy Pelosi] was right. Porter Goss was careful to parse his words in the conditional future tense when talking about what, exactly, he and Pelosi were briefed on in September 2002:

Today, I am slack-jawed to read that members claim to have not understood that the techniques on which they were briefed were to actually be employed; or that specific techniques such as "waterboarding" were never mentioned.

And Senator Richard Shelby also carefully avoided saying he’d been briefed on EITs that had already been used, saying only that he’d been told about the techniques. And “purported” isn’t exactly a strong word – it’s a synonym of suggested or claimed. From his statement: 

As Vice Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in 2002, Senator Shelby was briefed by the CIA on the Agency’s interrogation program and the existence of Enhanced Interrogation Techniques (EITs). To his recollection, not only did the CIA briefers provide what was purported to be a full account of the techniques, they also described the need for these techniques and the value of the information being obtained from terrorists during questioning.

Bob Graham, who was theoretically in the room with Shelby, says he has no recollection of the meeting at all – this from a man who famously details his every waking minute. Perhaps the most astonishing response has been from the CIA Director Leon Panetta, who basically said: Don’t trust our records. Which begs the question: what other issues have they kept questionable records on?

There are about 8 more sentences, all of them sweet vindication.  I can’t believe it took me one month and a Swampland post to feel like this. And it’s admittedly one damn battle in a too-long war on flaccid media.

But still. It feels good.

61 replies
  1. martha says:

    Hah! I read that earlier that thought she’d cribbed it from you… But either way, it oozed out onto a platform run by very serious journalists… /s

    But a victory is just that…sweet!

  2. radiofreewill says:

    EW! You coasted to the Win by a couple dozen days…it’s great to see the proper, balanced framing and context finally coming to the Pelosi Briefing issue!

    The difference has been, imvho, that you took the time to really look and ’see’ what was there – a deeper look – rather than impulsively falling for the sheen of “Pelosi Knew” on the surface of the document.

    Brava! Brava!

  3. dmac says:

    I posted this on perris’ diary for both of you for next week, seems appropriate to post it here…

    a song for you to hum. go, girl.

    I’m Sitting on Top of the World
    Les Paul and Mary Ford

    and earlier, i sent a letter to msnbc saying Lawrence O’Donnell should have the 10pm slot (or the dancin’ jo-jo’s morning spot) and that you should be his ‘ana marie’..two fact-brainiacs, guests would have to know what they are talking about. how refreshing.

    • bobschacht says:

      Well, it may have the same title, but the LP&MF version is a far cry from the Bluegrass song of the same name. Thanks for the link, though. Its been way too long since I’ve heard some LP&MF. What a pair!

      Bob in HI

      • dmac says:

        dug it up for perris and marcy, les is one of his heroes. the cool thing about that version or any song he did, is what he had invented for the song to be a vehicle to use. which is why i chose les paul for the celebrate marcy song in perris’ diary.she is as inventive as he.

        wiki on the versions of the song, which is another one of the reasons i chose that one for marcy. many incarnations, all good.….._the_World

    • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

      …two fact-brainiacs, guests would have to know what they are talking about. how refreshing.

      You mean, improve the information environment…?

      Isn’t that kind of like cleaning up the pollution in a lake or something?
      Like… cleaning up the air?

  4. Loo Hoo. says:

    VICTORY!! Where Bob Graham keeps his mighty notebooks, EW keeps her brain, her timelines, and her links. Satisfaction.

    • dmac says:

      or another ‘b’ word–bloviate

      or bobo-sity.

      boy, i wish i could get paid for being pretentious. that would be fun!
      for a day.

    • Fractal says:

      Why go so easy on Jay Newton-Small for the egregious hit job he did on Pelosi in the “print” version? Who appointed him the PR advisor to the stars?

  5. Funnydiva2002 says:

    This is good to hear, EW
    I should see if the comments on the blog-entry are still open. We could all head over with congratulations, as well as pointing them to your more in-depth, and much earlier, analysis?

    Always nice to be able to say you’re NOT crazy, huh? Even though all your “Wheelies” know that you’re not.

    Funny Wheelie Diva

  6. TheraP says:

    Here’s what I wonder: Is the deluge of so much information, news cycles going so fast, so much to follow, leading to a tendency to skim rather than to read closely? To rely on the easy route of just reading a mistaken headline or passing over the adverbs and adjectives and just getting the gist of nouns and verbs? I confess I’ve sometimes been guilty of skimming myself. But one mustn’t do that when a professional judgment is required.

    I agree that a more accurate view is beginning to percolate upward. But is it percolating because people are actually reading more carefully? Or is it simply that the headlines of blogs or the pounding away at the same message by some is beginning to change the story line?

    I wish it were so that some are beginning to read more carefully. And to actually take time to reflect. But I fear it’s the factor of repetition that’s responsible.

    We’ll have to wait and see.

    • Funnydiva2002 says:

      Ah. Interesting point, TheraP.
      For myself, at this point, whatever the causality, if the end result is to change the story line in a more factual direction, that’s A-OK with me. I’ll continue to be smug that “Oh, I read that over at EW’s weeks ago” though, OK?

      Funny Wheelie Diva

    • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

      Here’s what I wonder: Is the deluge of so much information, news cycles going so fast, so much to follow, leading to a tendency to skim rather than to read closely? To rely on the easy route of just reading a mistaken headline or passing over the adverbs and adjectives and just getting the gist of nouns and verbs? I confess I’ve sometimes been guilty of skimming myself. But one mustn’t do that when a professional judgment is required.

      As a certified skimmer, I think that’s often the best we can manage. Sometimes it works; other times it plays into the Cheneys of the world.

      But the blogs are clearly part of it.
      The other Congressmen coming forward – and Graham with his evidently legendary rep for documenting accurately – is also part of it. I trust Nancy Pelosi will remember who backed her up and who screwed her ;-))
      (And I hope the other Dems also take note.)

      As for Joe Klein, I’ve come at least 105 degrees on the man since he ripped the neocons a new arsehole last July. I’d love to know what lay behind Klein’s “new rules”, but something pissed him off big time. Frankly, I’ve observed (and experienced) that sometimes after coming up short, an individual is more than ever committed to ‘getting it right’, and it looks to me as if he’s really working at trying to be in that category. His analysis of the Obama-Cheney speeches today was, IMHO, pretty incisive from what I’ve been able to see of them.

      But yeah, ‘information overload’ is clearly a problem with the media, the electeds, and probably most of the nation at this point.

      Which, IMVHO, just adds to the value of what I read here. (And this is the bulk of my reading; there’s no way I can keep up.)

    • freepatriot says:

      Here’s what I wonder: Is the deluge of so much information, news cycles going so fast, so much to follow

      I think I’m qualified to answer that question, cuz that fits my intelectual M-O perfectly

      I bury the opposition in a deluge of facts. I just keep piling up the facts until the opposition breaks

      maybe in deference to the opinion, or maybe in deference to the overwhelming and unanswerable pile of facts

      or maybe just to get me to SHUT UP

      all I know is it’s an effective debating style for me

      an my friends can’t even spell debate


  7. rxbusa says:

    Yayyy for you, Marcy! You’ve trained all of us, but some are…ummm…faster learners than others. Well deserved recognition you’ve been getting.

  8. DWBartoo says:

    Marcy, you’re “growin’” on them …

    Truth to tell, you left them in the dust, quite a while back.

    Sweet victory is yours, and this is but the beginning of a ‘trend’.

    As a journalist, you are, simply, the best.

    As a human being who is thoughtful and deeply discerning as well as happily willing to share credit with those who deserve it, you are a most wonderful example.

    The award you are soon to receive is most well-deserved. It shall be but one among many, I am certain, as the people of this nation come to understand the incredible importance of what you are doing.

    (As to your prodigious ‘output’, realizing that you can type faster than a speeding Igraine -SD’s teleporting cat, it is completely astounding.)


  9. Leen says:

    The rule of law benefits greatly from EW spending so much time in the swampland.

    “don’t trust our records” that is pathetic

    Condi Rice would have to say to EW “you do your homework”

  10. JasonLeopold says:

    On the topic of this sentence from the swampland post

    Which begs the question: what other issues have they kept questionable records on?

    Bob Graham said in September 2007 that intel officials got two dates wrong when they claimed he was briefed on domestic surveillanceOct. 25, 2001 and April 10, 2002

    Back in September 07, Graham said:

    “When I got those dates, I went back to my notebooks and checked and found that on most of the dates there were no meetings held. In fact, in several of them, I wasn’t in Washington when the meetings were supposed to have taken place.”

    I believe the April 2002 date Graham referred to may have coincided with the CIA’s recent claims to Graham that he was also briefed that month on torture.

  11. lurkinlil says:

    I’m giving Marcy a standing ovation.

    To your continued success!

    SIP SIP SIP …..
    Now I am drinking a toast to this exceptional person.

    I am very proud of you! Keep up the fantastic work.

  12. Muzzy says:

    At some level, I think it’s important that this question of complicity vs. exclusion of the few Dems who by law should have been in the know about torture – that this question got dealt with up front before anything progresses. It’s almost impossible to imagine political grandstanding NOT happening in the natural progression of dealing with this generation of gop’ers over a serious and deep matter that was perpetrated through their rule.

    Let this story sink in some more, and if and when real investigations occur and proceed, it will be a lot harder for blame shifting distractions to get traction.

  13. freepatriot says:

    I love the comments, where the reporter gets the shit beat out of him for being so late to the game, and missing the fact that leon said “don’t take my word for it” in the original letter two weeks back

    I’m beginning to think the peanut gallery Marcy’s gaggle of Misfits ain’t so unique

    some of the comments are direct, and these people KNOW the facts

    if ya like good slap down, you should read the comments attached to broder and will

    lately, the newspaper-bankrupcy thing is explained on nearly every thread

    some day, some editor is gonna READ the comments and be AMAZED

    I doubt the BIZ department of any major paper ever figures it out

  14. TheraP says:

    One further comment. Marcy’s close reading is sorely needed. And this blog has become a place for people who appreciate that to come and drink the pure water from the gushing spring. Add those of us who go out and bang the drums. And I see us inching forward.

    The value of the web, I think, is that different topics, different words and sentences rings bells for each of us. When we combine the info that leaps up in our various areas of expertise or interest, then sometimes there’s a magnifier effect on the web, which moves information forward.

    Take that tiny “bingo” of mine – “hypergraphia” re Abu Zubaida, based on Marcy’s link. That idea seems to have gone places, most likely because it’s genesis was traceable back to here. But also because people are paying attention to this blog.

    Each of us plays a role. It’s amazing to be part of this. We won’t get all we want. But we’ll get some of it.

    Keep banging the drums!

    • Leen says:

      All I want is for our leaders to actually mean what they say “no one is above the law” so far it is not looking good. The banging here at FDL is being heard in the supposed halls of justice and on the MSM via KO, Rachel, Ed, and yes Matthews

  15. wavpeac says:

    Can I just say that the victory is yours and also a victory for the whole country!!

    Now, can I gripe for a minute? I have linked your blog to some of the smartest people I know, repeatedly and perhaps annoyingly. These are folks with ph.d’s published and recognized in their field. Not one, despite my encouragement has met me on this blog. It gripes me to no end. I think that perhaps some of these folks didn’t even read the articles. I don’t get how any intelligent person could miss this opportunity.

    This site has been the voice of reason throughout a time in history when our country was taken over by an “insane and immoral” group of politico’s.

    The Karma on this one is gonna be a bitch.

    However, your fortune awaits E.W….I am certain of this.

  16. libbyliberal says:

    marcy, nice to have a solid win in the non-crazymakers’ column! And for msm to be exposed to truth to power fwiw in their glacial learning curve. Congratulations.

  17. i4u2bi says:

    EW..I wish Obama would love you and trust you the way we all do here. I wish Obama would take your advice then there could be real hope. U rock!

  18. cbl2 says:

    Good Morning Marcy and Firedogs,

    hell Marcy, I’m wondering if Bitsy Bumiller didn’t walk back her Page 1/Recidivist story out of fear she’d be “emptywheeled”

  19. pastfedup says:

    Swampland. Yes, a good name for the traditional media – mired in quicksand. But as long as we have Marcy to keep offering to throw a ‘rope’ to those who’ll pay attention to the truth, she’ll help drag some of them out of the muck.

    Go, Marcy! Congratulations on the Hillman award. You are truly a treasure.

  20. John Anderson says:

    Here’s to you, Marcy, for all the wonderful work you’ve done, but particularly on the Who Knew What When of Torture and, before that, on the Plame case.
    No one does a better or more informed close reading of texts.
    It’s a gift you have, but it’s also very hard work.
    Thank you.

    • cbl2 says:

      my first thought on the non response of your PHd friends –

      academic types (forgive the broad brush) usually live within circles wherein they are the designated expert on a given subject.

      imagine encountering someone – ‘not even in the field’ – the horror ! who can easily dissect, parse, analyze, and make connections 10 times faster than you thought possible

      simplistic ? hell yeah. but I suspect vanity had a hand here

  21. alank says:

    Steny Hoyer read out a passage from TIME to this effect, yesterday, at a some sort of meeting with the press. Someone asked who said this. Hoyer replied, “TIME said it”. That drew a chuckle or two.

  22. Fractal says:

    This is my favorite part of the morning: tuning in to FDL to discover Marcy winning yet another round in this endless boxing match against Shrub & his legacy of bullshit. Also, don’t miss her amazing baker’s dozen of torturers on Salon last Monday.

    Surely, over this long weekend, we can get the thermometer over $100,000, can’t we? I’m hitting PayPal again first thing this morning for Marcy’s Investigative Reporting Endowment Fund (keepin’ it organic).

  23. brendanx says:

    Sounds like they cribbed from you, which should only make the feeling of vindication stronger.

  24. oldtree says:

    I for one am glad we have real journalism and Marcy to show what it means to the copyists.

  25. Fractal says:

    heh heh I just realized this thread started yesterday, and I woke up and thought it was from this morning, but comments here continued overnight! time warp

  26. frankly0 says:

    It’s fair to say that Goss never went beyond a statement that the CIA clearly communicated to Pelosi that waterboarding was to be actually used in the future.

    But Shelby is a different matter, if his spokesperson can be trusted to represent what his own opinions were.

    Following the links, one finds this reporting from Greg Sargent:

    Update: Shelby’s spokesperson clarifies:

    “To Senator Shelby’s recollection of the Senate briefing, waterboarding was one the EITs the CIA said it had used. As he also recalls, the CIA described the valuable intelligence it obtained using EITs, including waterboarding.”

    So Shelby does maintain that the Senators were told that EITs, including waterboarding, were in fact used. Again, he’s directly at odds with Graham.

    Clearly, this goes well past what Goss said, in asserting that, by his recollection, the CIA briefed Pelosi as to the use of the waterboard in the then past. Of course, it’s certainty is hedged by the use of “he recalls”, but it is nonetheless what he is asserting, with whatever confidence.

    I don’t know how Tumulty missed that reference, since it was in the very link she provided to what Shelby said. If she had some reason to dismiss or dispute it, she should certainly have explained that point.

    I also find odd her emphasis on the word “purported” in Shelby’s direct statement — she really needs to explain the logic of what she think that implies more carefully.

  27. bobc2443 says:

    Amazing isn’t it that Shelby was briefed on EITs in 2002 when the phrase had not even been dreamed up until much later. How do these repugs find their way to the latrine and when they do how do they find their ass to wipe it.

  28. letsgetitdone says:

    Sorry to be so lacking in gallantry, but . . .

    Did I miss a citation, or did Jay Newton-Small and TIME violate copyright law by not crediting your post?

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