2020 Presidential Debates: Station Hope [UPDATE-1]

[NB: Update at bottom of post. /~Rayne]

I’m putting up a post so community members can hash out the first of three presidential debates.

This one is located in Cleveland, Ohio, which was code named “Station Hope” by the Underground Railroad during the mid-1800s.

The entire day has been rife with bullshit rumormongering among the right-wing monkey horde, which claims Democratic candidate and former VP Joe Biden will use an earpiece for prompts by others as well as performance enhancing drugs.

Sure sounds like a lot of projection to me.

Trump’s campaign has already jumped the gun and sent out a fundraising email before 5:37 p.m. EDT claiming he’s won the debate which doesn’t start until 8:00 p.m. CDT (I’m writing this at 8:00 p.m. EDT).

Joe and his team are taking this all in stride.

Do open the graphic. The right-wing horde has gotten their panties in a twist about $12-13/pint ice cream, failing to take the time to check its provenance. It’s made by a woman-founded ice creamery headquartered in Columbus with a scoop shop in Chagrin, Ohio just east of Cleveland, with pints available in many Cleveland-area grocery stores.

Way to go, MAGAts. Good luck winning over more women and small businesses.

Anyhow…a list of online streams is available at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLU12uITxBEPFAvcROsHJwIopn-Q-FMTSp

Fox is hosting which is a joke given their role in spreading disinformation today about Biden.

CNN’s Daniel Dale will be doing a real time fact check which Fox is apparently incapable of doing. Best wishes to Dale who will surely be exhausted at the end of the debate; he’s the best Canadian import we have next to Molson.

Best of luck to you all. I will check in later; I simply don’t have the patience for Trump’s lies while the U.S. has now lost 205,591 Americans as of this evening to COVID-19 because Trump’s such a useless fraud.

~ ~ ~

EDIT: Mark these dates on your calendar for the next two presidential debates —

Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:00–10:30 p.m. ET
Location: Adrienne Arsht Center for the Performing Arts, Miami, Florida
Moderator: Steve Scully, C-SPAN

Thursday, October 22, 2020 8:00–9:30 p.m. ET
Location: Curb Event Center at Belmont University, Nashville, Tennessee
Moderator: Kristen Welker, NBC

~ ~ ~

UPDATE-1 — 11:45 P.M. ET —

Jumpin’ Jehosaphat, what a spectacular waste of time and a massive national embarrassment. Trump has all the manners and grace of a toddler who’s missed his lunch and his nap, and yet he has all the maliciousness of an old man with permanent grudges.

Van Jones, who has been on board with Trump, may have had the scales removed from his eyes tonight:

I don’t know what took Jones so damned long to realize that Trump is a white supremacist who intends to keep his grip on power illegitimately and with the support of white supremacist terror groups.

The media isn’t taking this debate well, either. Many of them realize that Trump couldn’t be reined in even if Fox’s Chris Wallace had tried harder because Trump was intent on venting his meanness. Any one of them in Wallace’s shoes would have had difficulty salvaging any of the debate because Trump has no respect for the media if they aren’t kissing his ass.

Joan Donovan of the Shorenstein Center has an important message for the media, though:

Don’t give white supremacists a platform. Doing so lends them legitimacy. It’s bad enough Trump had one tonight which he used to ask them to stand by — in essence, calling to armed preparedness a seditious entity.

It’s past time to discuss both the illegitimacy of Trump’s power and the threat of seditious insurrection if he loses to Biden in an effort to prevent the peaceful transition of power.

Two more debates seem useless at this point, don’t they?

235 replies
    • soothsayer says:

      Nice! A drink was the first thing I said we needed when we turned on the debates. For me, Whiskey without a doubt, and so far a double shot of JD Honey. But, 1 hour in, I think I may need another one and make it a triple!

      p.s. did any of you see that Ratcliffe, released literal Russian disinfo, how is he the DNI supposedly protecting the US if he pushes our Adversaries disinfo? Insane.

      • bmaz says:

        Yeah, who here would have seen that? You clearly do not even know the history of this blog. Have you been here long enough to know the history? Or are you just blowing smoke in a drop in few months since May? I call bullshit. Don’t just call it, you are it.

        • soothsayer says:

          What are you upset about? Bullshit on what? No, I do not know the history. What Ratcliffe did, pissed me off and I am drinking and when I drink I might express myself more without filters. But, even on what I said, I am utterly confused why you are upset.

        • readerOfTeaLeaves says:

          The cars… have computers all over the place.

          Apparently, Trump doesn’t get that opens up opportunities for AI and electric.

          Just… wow….

        • P J Evans says:

          Maybe he thinks that cars should run on coal. He doesn’t seem to realize that new cars are very different (and much safer) from whatever his parents had when he was a kid.

        • Stephen Calhoun says:

          I know Trump is able to drive a golf cart. I wonder how much time he has spent driving a car. Does he own one? He doesn’t need to own one, and I would guess he may not have driven a car in decades.

          Has ever driven his family on a vacation? We know Trump is out of touch. About cars, it is likely he knows hardly anything.

        • soothsayer says:

          Jeebus, I am so tired of these mofo donkey fuckers abusing normal institutional processes for their own political bs. I actually did not hear him say this crap, I prob was posting on here at that time! I did hear him bring up some other dezza bs though, which I will not repeat, fuck all of them and their malarcky as Biden likes to say! (I may have had one shot too many and entered my sweary no filter phase – whoops!)

      • cavenewt says:

        Thank god for coronavirus. Because of that, I watched the debate alone. Had I been with a group of friends we would’ve been doing drinking games and I would be sick as a dog today.

    • blueedredcounty says:

      Rayne, I give you credit for ever being able to listen to all the lies Trump spews. I have not listened to the man since before the 2016 election. I can’t, liars enrage me, I’d take years off my life if I listened to him.

      However, to celebrate the “debate”, I have had two drinks, a blend of apple pie moonshine, pear liqueur, and brandy. I used to make a pear vodka-based martini, but I can’t get that pear cognac anymore, so this is as close as I can get.

      Salud! Dinero! Amor! (you get all three for your tequila, enjoy!)

      • Rayne says:

        Thanks, but I’d be lying if I said I listen to him except when Sarah Cooper does her comedic gag using his words as voice over. I can’t stomach the son of a bitch, he makes my skin crawl. Not many people I’ve run into in my life can elicit such a visceral response but Trump presses those buttons.

        Pretty sure any woman who’s been in an abusive relationship or adult child who’s been victimized by an abusive father figure recognizes the malignancy Trump represents.

        Anyhow…I’m surprised you can’t get your pear cognac. You can order Belle de Brillet Poire Liqueur or Xanté Cognac & Pear Liqueur from a number of places online. Kind of wonder if I should try making my own pear liqueur, sounds so tasty.

        À votre santé!

        • Marinela says:

          For me, Barr is up there with Trump.
          Both of them when they lie they also talk like they are in love with the sound of their voice, projecting the sense they are the smartest people around.
          Trump with his sniffing, Barr, Trump, with the hands gestures, Barr with pauses like a genius bomb is going to drop just before he is lying…
          They must think everybody is stupid.

    • punaise says:

      Does it have to be a beverage? It’s harvest season in the few remaining unburned areas of NorCal, just sayin’…

      • Peterr says:

        Been watching the news from afar, and can’t help but do mental translation. I hear the name of a town, and immediately see in my head the local wineries i loved visiting. Instead of the Crush, they’re dealing with this. Damn.

        • P J Evans says:

          Pumpkin empanadas – the ones I had could have used a little more seasoning. “Pumpkin job” – pumpkin pudding (AKA pie filling but sturdier) made in a crockpot and served with whipped cream as an option. Maybe pumpkin cookies….

  1. gulageten says:

    That premature debate victory email seems like a f-up, but it also could be tricking his fans into not watching.

  2. klynn says:

    Biden’s “What the hell” look over Trump not letting Wallace ask questions is the meme look of the ages.

    “Shut the hell up!” Will be one too.

  3. Rugger9 says:

    Well, the lack of preparation by DJT really showed. I think Mulvaney is right in his idea that DJT will skip the other two debates because Biden wiped the floor with this one (does Biden really play golf more than DJT, really? DJT said so).

  4. Just Bill says:

    Watching the debate… Wallace needs a silence switch.

    Trump is a baby.

    Biden despite the continuous interruption is getting out his truthful message. Quite the contrast to Trump and his bromides!

  5. Just Bill says:

    Chris Wallace has been run over by Trump. All he has to do is just keep telling the president to stop until he does. Trump is bullying, Wallace wilting and Biden making the best of it under the circumstances. Biden keeps going to bat for America! Trump could not be more rude or ugly.

    • timbo says:

      I think that Twitler lost the debate when the moderator started siding with Biden. By the end of the evening, both of them looked perplexed that Trump is even in the room, let alone in a so-called Presidential debate.

  6. Rugger9 says:

    One thing that strikes me is the way Joe spoke to the people and Don blathers and takes potshots at Biden. This reminded me of the difference between Nixon and Kennedy on TV in the first debate in 1960, where Kennedy beat Nixon because of the way he answered. Audio only was something of a wash, but visually it was a wipeout.

    Wallace had to beg DJT to shut up and let Joe speak.

    • Peterr says:

      Mothers of young third grade bullies across the country are telling their sons “If you apply yourself, you can become president, too.”

      • Ken Muldrew says:

        Canada watches this, notes that 40% of America still stands behind this malevolent beast, and worries that dawn is a long way distant.

      • geodoc says:

        As a Canadian (US / Canada dual, Vancouver) I can confirm that this is true. Seems like many or perhaps most up here are just fine with the border remaining shut for a while yet.

        • punaise says:

          Our son-in-law is Canadian (PEI) but has lived in the US for a coupe of years. We keep apologizing for the state of our country.

        • SophiaB says:

          I am same, AND I think Canada has a LOT of work to politically. Not cool what is happening here either. I could go on, but I am compelled to note racism and underfunded health care, plus stolen elections WRITTEN ABOUT in national newspapers. Ugh.

    • Chris.EL says:

      Oh my god!

      Just reminded of the line flawlessly delivered by Hailee Steinfeld (13 or 14 years old) to Matt Damon (playing a Texas ranger) in Coen Brothers True Grit: “We have no rodeo clowns in Yell county.”

      Tuned in to KCBS radio and listened.

      Shudder to think of having to go through that while watching the wacky Trump antics too. Wisely evaded the experience.

      Perhaps a soundproof booth with a microphone that can be muted would be helpful.

  7. Nehoa says:

    DJT answers on race issues are total dog whistles. Law enforcement in southern states, violent protestors, and racial sensitivity as an attack on “American” values.

    • Eureka says:

      I was listening **soo closely** for what he’d say… He could not even pull off a half-hearted stand-down of his Pr Boys buddies (as opposed to all of the rest of them, and who might “understand” and wink-nod hive-five Stone while they sit together watching the “debate”) without swerving to “stand _by_” or however he put it.

      As with Putin, he just can’t do it. Can’t do it.

      • Eureka says:

        On that phrasing he used:

        Proud Boys celebrate after Trump’s debate call-out
        On the Proud Boys’ account on the social media app Telegram, the group appeared to take the statement as marching orders.
        Sept. 29, 2020, 11:12 PM EDT
        By Ben Collins and Brandy Zadrozny

        The Proud Boys, a far-right extremist group, pledged allegiance to President Donald Trump on Tuesday night after he told the group to “stand back and stand by” during the evening’s debate.

        Many people on social media who identify with the group echoed that language, saying they were “standing down and standing by.” One known social media account for the group made “Stand back. Stand by” part of its new logo.

  8. readerOfTeaLeaves says:

    One eye on NYT, and…. NYT fact checkers are polite.
    I can’t believe how completely batshit Trump is.
    I thought he was not doing well, but … O.M.G 😱

    Biden needs to keep triggering Trump

  9. OldTulsaDude says:

    I refuse to waste any more of my life listening to Donald Trump spew his lies. It’s professional wrestling by mouth.

    • harpie says:

      From Marcy’s live tweeting today:
      1:41 PM · Sep 29, 2020

      Kohl is now making statements that are inconsistent with the public record.
      Kohl: “He didn’t even view CH as justification for interview.” Under the Logan Act, not CH.

      Wow. This is utterly false. This conflicts with Strzok’s notes, Priestap’s notes, all contemporary testimony.

    • harpie says:

      From Marcy’s post, today:

      Then, having been told, falsely, that the date of the notes was uncertain, Sidney Powell claimed they had been written on January 4, and used that to falsely claim that the idea of investigating Mike Flynn under the Logan Act came from Joe Biden.

      • klynn says:

        I am not watching anyone else out of hope PBS might be a little better analysis.

        It has gotten better. But the beginning was using language that rationalized Trump’s behavior.

        • cavenewt says:

          CNN’s commentary was entertaining. One panelist’s first comment was to call it a shitshow. Jake Tapper said “A hot mess inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck. A disgrace.“

          Hard to imagine anything like that on PBS.

  10. Eureka says:

    Yeah I’d plow a skunky Molson or few rn.

    Apparently Wallace heard me scream TULSA!!!!!!!!! (but not HERMAN CAINNNNNNN) when he was assenting to Trump’s “outdoor rallies only” BS.

    About his disinfo spew now (lol, however long ago at this point): thread from earlier today by local reporter Ellie Rushing on scene — some illegal and N/A shit Trump campaign set up wrt to hired “poll watcher” at… NOT a polling place! (It’s an election satellite office):

    Ellie Rushing: “People are waiting to vote in Philly’s Overbrook satellite office, but the state’s voter database is down. Some people have been standing for over an hour. “This is ridiculous. I just want to vote & get out of here,” said Barry Corprew. His 92-year-old mother had to go sit down. [photo]”


    “A woman who told me she was hired and paid by the Trump campaign to monitor polling places just arrived. She wouldn’t speak to me on the record. She said she’s been hired to “oversee the integrity of the election” and was angry they wouldn’t let her inside.”

    “This woman did not vote or attempt to. She wanted to be let inside the place to monitor what was going on. They told her she was not allowed unless she was there to actually register to vote, etc. so then she made her argument and left after they wouldn’t let her in.”

    “Again–I didn’t get her name or any more information from her. She wanted to talk off the record, but I wasn’t comfortable with that. I’m asking the Trump campaign for more info. But here’s an article from last month about PA GOP poll watching efforts:

    Constraints gone, GOP ramps up effort to monitor voting in Pennsylvania
    The Republican Party heads into its first presidential contest this November free from decades-old legal constraints on the use of volunteers to monitor the polls on Election Day

    “Here’s some chatter about it. Not trying to spread disinformation about their conspiracies by sharing this, but it does insinuate that some more “poll watchers” could be across the city. However, these are elections offices, NOT polling places.
    Quote Tweet”

    What an epic shitshow.

    • Eureka says:

      Jonathan Tamari: “This is a total lie about Philly today. There are no Trump campaign poll watchers approved to work in Philly at the moment. A Trump supporter was at an elections satellite office, not an actual polling place via @EllieRushing @Elaijuh @ByChrisBrennan [link; also threads a correction on Trump re the PA ballots in Luzerne County]”

      [^ a reply here 11mins ago says Daniel Dale is still working on the first hour of Trump’s firehose of disinfo]

      Ellie Rushing: ““In Philadelphia they went in to watch… they were thrown out. They were’t allowed to watch,” Trump says. “There are bad things happening in Philadelphia, bad things.” This. is. not. true. [link]”

      Links to:

      Trump wrongly says poll watchers blocked from observing Philadelphia early voting

      Adding clarification on Tulsa remark/snark: that was about Wallace later citing Tulsa as a GOP city with crime problems (contra — if weakly, because this is all propaganda — Trump’s Blue Cities narrative), not his correcting his false assent to Trump’s round of BS on outdoor-only rallies.

    • Eureka says:

      My bet is that the MAGA network saw that Rushing was reporting from a Black neighborhood and decided to LARP her thread (to create this propaganda opportunity).

      Rushing is well-known to Proud Boys and other MAGAs, being one of the reporters who they menaced away from covering the fact that said PB/MAGAs joined an FOP Lodge after-party to Pence’s visit back on July 9th. (That, too, made it into a twitter coverage thread & subsequent article.*) (She’s also covered USPS problems in the run-up to vote-by-mail.)

      Whether my inference as to the MAGA gal’s inspiration to show up then and there is correct or not, the cascade of events presents some questions about how the press might need to re-think how they handle live, rolling coverage of events (or even just recognize the increasing number of events ripe for disruption). I don’t have ready answers, but it looks like exploitation, hitchhiking on (multiple, now, with Trump’s remarks at the “debate”) MSM loops to feed the propaganda machine.


  11. P J Evans says:

    Apparently Trmp has never learned to shut up and let others take their turn talking. It’s something that most five-year-olds learn. And also, apparently, shutting off mikes when people refuse to stop talking requires pre-debate agreement by both sides.

      • P J Evans says:

        I was seeing a lot of suggestions about booths with mikes that can be shut off. Particularly for the two-minute-speech section.

      • earthworm says:

        What do you think DJT was jacked up on?
        Our national legends condition Americans to view the presidency and the office holder with respect.
        DJT’s debate behavior was an insult to that respect:
        Statesmanship, leadership, integrity, decency? Not me! You (the audience) are Suckers & Losers was conveyed by his debate behavior.

  12. Krisy Gosney says:

    Earlier I read here about Peter Strzok and how one of his notes had a false date added to it, by someone working to get Flynn’s trial dismissed, in order to make it look like Biden “brought up the Logan Act.” Tonight Trump used this fraudulent date set-up in his debate performance tonight when he said- “Biden brought up the Logan Act.” And I think he tried to bring up before that when he started mumbling something about Hilary Clinton. So does anyone think Sullivan will use this as part of his case that the DOJs dropping of the Flynn prosecution is politicized (and all the way up to the President)?

  13. Molly Pitcher says:

    Mike Reese @SherriffReese:

    “In tonight’s presidential debate the President said the “Portland Sherriff” supports him. As the Multnomah County Sherrifff I have never supported Donald Trump and will never support him.”

  14. Tom says:

    I don’t think Donald Trump did himself any favours tonight. There was an air of desperation and flop sweat in his performance. His anger seemed tinged with fear, not righteous indignation. As a debater, it’s a bad sign when your emotions, poor self-control, and blathering disregard for the rules of the debate (which you previously agreed to observe) result in you antagonizing the moderator and edging him over to support your opponent. Also, Trump scowled almost constantly and I don’t recall the least glimmer of humour in anything he said. It just added to the sense of Trump inwardly seething and deeply resenting having to take part in any debates, as opposed to simply being acclaimed President for another four years … or for life.

  15. Nehoa says:

    Fun fact. I have a Wharton MBA. Was a TA grading Wharton undergrads for 3 of 4 semesters there. Lots of really great kids, but an inordinate amount of privileged assholes. Trump was a transfer student from Fordham. His SAT was to get into Fordham, not Wharton. He successfully transferred because his older brother was friends with an admissions officer. He did not graduate with honors, but he did graduate. Not so difficult then.

      • Geoff says:

        Having been there myself, and having not had a stellar sophomore year when I was battling some depression issues, I’m keenly aware of how the grading system works and what you have to do to get through and attain the BA. Typically, if you are failing a class, the worst you will end up with is a C-. maybe a D, but you never really get Fs, even when you deserve them. (This was the mid 80s, btw.)

        There will be some fraught discussions if you intend to remain in school and why, and whether you can get your act together, etc. But if you have powerful people behind you, you will skate by all four years failing, and will still end up with Cs on your card, and get your degree.

        I’d imagine that if we ever see Trump’s grades, this is what we will see. And to be fair, he isn’t the only one that gets through the program this way. There are plenty of legacy kids, and others, that really don’t belong there. This is only slowly starting to change, but it’s a huge problem.

        • P J Evans says:

          I got mostly Bs and Cs, in college at that time. And I dropped one class (and changed major) after being completely unable to do the problems on a midterm. (I apologized to the professor, who I liked, on the test paper.) But I got in on my own, and my grades were on my own work.

        • Geoff says:

          There are all sorts of other abuses that go on, in terms of the grading, and in terms of which classes you take (many were known by their nickname, rocks for jocks (geology) e.g.). More extreme versions would have others show up to take the exam for you, especially easy if it’s not the professor that is administering the tests. The point is, for many entitled kids of the uppercrust, from the get go it’s not a matter of brains or hard work. Their parents paid for them to go to Choate, Sacred Heart, etc., and they fully expect to go to top tier the whole way through. With the legacy system, it’s particularly easy. Once you are there, depending on who your parents are, all sorts of coddling takes place. Best of all, these types of kids can simply skip the career placement office, tee up their “unpaid” internship, and be off and running wherever it is they need a warm yes-person body in the system.

          I personally took my lumps during one bad year, contemplated leaving, but decided to get my act together and then studied hard and dug out of the hole I had created for myself. But I had a “lot of explaining” to do afterwards, because that one bad year really kills your average GPA.

          I also had a lot of apologizing to do, so I can empathize with you on that.

    • soothsayer says:

      My wife, taught undergrads between both a private and public uni, and she would tell me often, how most if not all of the private uni students came mostly from well off homes and would expect a perfect grade, and complain furiously as if they had been slighted if they did not get a higher grade, even if they hardly showed up or did all of the work in time or at all. The public uni students, were mostly from lower income homes, and many a time immigrants, even more that they worked 1-2 jobs for school and to support themselves and even families. They NEVER complained, they would a) work their butts off b) ask what other work they could do if needed, c) participate in lectures and actually care about what they were learning. It was not a one off either, it was a consistent theme, and therefore enjoyed teaching the public students more.

  16. klynn says:

    Been wondering if part of tonight’s bombastic Trump performance was to create headline distractions from the damning info from the Flynn hearing?

  17. Savage Librarian says:

    Putin’s Puppy

    Did you see his ears were red,
    animated beyond his head?
    I think they had a case of dread
    they wouldn’t t glory in what was said.

    Or maybe Putin’s pup was fed
    (out behind the old woodshed)
    beet borscht for his main meal instead
    of his preferred fast food spread.

    With more than 200,000 dead
    he panics about his daily bread,
    and if he has adequately misled
    with propaganda that he’s pled.

    Who will pull on the next thread
    and publish it in a lengthy op-ed?
    How many paths will be tread
    before this sick pup is put to bed?

    • Eureka says:

      I keep glimpsing lately Comedy Central’s (Oct 2018) show, ~ The End of Trump. But a borscht diet — for him — would be justice (no knock on the borscht!).

      Reminds me, did anyone see the ‘spoof’ video RT put out on the 22nd (or so)? They depicted Trump going to work for Vlad at RT for “$1 000 000 00” (in black sharpie; there may or may not be another zero under Trump’s finger as he displays the contract, like he holds up presidential signing docs) should he lose the election. They trolled-away at him, but that means they were also trolling US. {The language at the end was odd, too: it said (to 45) ~ if you “won’t make it” [~ then you’re welcome here]. As opposed to “don’t” /”can’t” make it (win the election). Among some other odd things.}


  18. harpie says:

    Rayne: It’s past time to discuss both the illegitimacy of Trump’s power and the threat of seditious insurrection

    I don’t want to sound hyperbolic, but:

    [Historian of white power movement, gun violence, paramilitarism, apocalypse]
    10:51 PM · Sep 29, 2020

    Re “stand back and standby,” people who work in monitoring and de-radicalization and otherwise studying white power groups are sounding red alerts and sending emergency signals about increasing violence from now through the election, and after, regardless of winner. […]

    5) we are decades, if not generations, into this problem. A green light like “stand back and standby” is catastrophic.

    (6) Please listen to the whistleblowers like @NeuSummits who are leaving DHS after sounding the alarm about white power violence. Please. And please be safe out there, because the next step is mass casualty targets. […]

  19. Eureka says:

    Granted “anonymity to describe [federal forces being used in a campaign operation]”:

    ICE preparing targeted arrests in ‘sanctuary cities,’ amplifying president’s campaign theme https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/trump-ice-raids-sanctuary-cities/2020/09/29/99aa17f0-0274-11eb-8879-7663b816bfa5_story.html

    By Nick Miroff and Devlin Barrett
    September 29, 2020 at 6:37 p.m. EDT

    The Trump administration is preparing an immigration enforcement blitz next month that would target arrests in U.S. cities and jurisdictions that have adopted “sanctuary” policies, according to three U.S. officials who described a plan with public messaging that echoes the president’s law-and-order campaign rhetoric.

    The Immigration and Customs Enforcement operation, known informally as the “sanctuary op,” could begin in California as soon as later this week. It would then expand to cities including Denver and Philadelphia, according to two of the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe sensitive government law enforcement plans.

    Chad Wolf, acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, probably will travel to at least one of the jurisdictions where the operation will take place to boost President Trump’s claims that leaders in those cities have failed to protect residents from dangerous criminals, two officials said.


    Two officials with knowledge of plans for the sanctuary op described it as more of a political messaging campaign than a major ICE operation, noting that the agency already concentrates on immigration violators with criminal records and routinely arrests them without much fanfare.

    • PhoneInducedPinkEye says:

      I feel like the admin announces one of these quarterly now through leaks to the same reporters at wapo and nyt, whenever they want to push a new headline onto the FIFO.

      • Eureka says:

        Yeah, and they did a ‘memory lane’ in that article about the time Trump tweeted out the plan and ruined the cruelty (it was a family separation op) [Miller so mad, but muh suffering!].

  20. PhoneInducedPinkEye says:

    Donald Trump likely speaks only to people he can talk over, or are subordinate to him in one way or another. These debates are one of the few times in his life that he has to engage with someone in which he doesn’t have control over the conversation. I think his behavior tonight perfectly illustrated Mary Trump’s point: he has essentially been institutionalized all his adult life including his time in the presidency.

  21. SVFranklinS says:

    I agree with a lot of the sentiments here, but consider that DJT achieved a couple goals here:

    1) Message 1: The rules don’t apply to me. I want to talk, I talk. I am above lesser men. Paraphrasing from 4 years ago, “when you’re famous (or president), they let you do it”. Wimpy Moderator whining “you agreed to the rules” shows DJT is strong – he sets the rules, not some wimpy guy – all classic primate dominance behavior.

    2) Not a strategy for getting votes, a strategy for saying votes don’t matter – “I am above the pesky rules of lesser men.” If this discourages people from voting, it wins. Biden messaging directly to the camera – “It’s about you, get out and vote” is the winning appeal as long as votes matter.
    But if the Proud Boys are activated, better stay home or you may get trouble.

    So with those two messages, DJT frames himself as above lesser men and even above the law, with the gangs and the bikers and the sheriffs on his side – exactly what he wants you to think of him.

    The only response is to get out and vote anyway, and since this primate dominance likely doesn’t appeal to 50% of the population (i.e. women, who DJT doesn’t seem to consider), in practice nothing changes. However, we are primates, and primate dominance works on many levels. It will be Biden’s challenge to tune his messaging group by group to counterbalance.
    And the dog bullhorn to the Proud Boys is weird as all hell.

    • PhoneInducedPinkEye says:

      It’s not weird if his goal is to shore up support with violent nazi gangs, it’s desperate animal cunning, but not weird as in purposeless.

  22. harpie says:

    I thought of Biden’s talk with the boy who has a stutter during the debate. Someone else wrote about his thoughts on this, via Cheryl Rofer:

    9:58 PM · Sep 29, 2020

    Because Biden has spoken publicly about trying to manage his stutter, I feel comfortable noting, as another person with a stutter: there is no greater nightmare than this. None. If he makes it to the end of this standing, he has steel in his bones.

    Biden did AMAZING!…steel in his bones!

  23. PeterS says:

    Watching Chris Wallace reminds me how feeble US journalists are. Can’t they watch – and learn from – e.g. Channel 4 News or BBC Newsnight in the UK?

    Jonathan Swan got showered with praise for his interview with Trump, but all he did was show Trump is an idiot, which we all knew already. He didn’t get close to forcing an answer from Trump about why the US death rate from covid 19 is over 5 times worse than Germany’s.

    • Chris.EL says:

      Wholeheartedly agree, Trump is an idiot, an extremely dangerous idiot. There’s two of them: Junior seems to be gearing up for jumping on the coattails. Junior is about the same age as many of the proud boys and he likes to play with guns.

      Since we need to look forward to happier times, after the election, hopefully celebrating a Biden~Harris win, this nice opinion piece made me smile, in remembrance of Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

      From New York Times, “The Very Jewish R.B.G.” by Jennifer Weiner.

      An exerpt:

      …”So there we were, in the Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique, where parents pay hundreds of dollars for the privilege of getting their kids “princess makeovers,” and Phoebe’s “fairy godmother in training” gave her a manicure and made small talk, asking, “Did you make your list for Santa yet, Princess?”

      I waited to see how my daughter would respond. I watched her think. Finally, Phoebe said: “I do not make a list for Santa. Because I am a Jewish princess.”

      I laughed and laughed. Then I explained to her that a Jewish Princess is something else entirely. It was hilarious.” …

  24. Mitch Neher says:

    They say that a tragedy is the song that a goat sings after its throat has been slit in sacrifice to the god Apollo.

    But Trump’s singing sounds more like that of a flea about to be made homeless by the death of its sheep.

  25. The Old Redneck says:

    It was a microcosm of our current politics: interruptions, name-calling, and complete disregard of the rules. If this shitshow had a winner, it was Biden, for showing he’s not senile and at least having an iota of respect for the moderator.
    Trump, on the other hand, played tantrum-throwing angry toddler. He really needs to be put on mute (as in a Zoom call) when he behaves like he did last night.

    • Chris.EL says:

      How’s this idea: when tiny trump interrupts, just let him talk – sorry, yell – then take his time away and give it to Biden.

      Think they also need one of those really loud obnoxious buzzers, can’t think of a way to spell that noise! Air horn from semi truck or boat?

  26. harpie says:

    AS Marcy says on Twitter:

    Proud Boys are friends of Roger Stone.

    TRUMP: What do you want to call them. Give me a name.

    WALLACE: White supremacists and right-wing militias.

    BIDEN: Proud Boys

    TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.
    But I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left.

    POTUS: “But I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left.”

    C-I-C: “But I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left.”

    • harpie says:

      Marcy has a critically important THREAD up right now, with the refrain:
      “why won’t Trump condemn terrorism.”

      6:31 AM · Sep 30, 2020

      It seems that the question should be,
      “why won’t Trump condemn terrorism.”

      That’s what this is.
      Not just a belief that whites are racially superior.
      But that they should be able to use intimidation and–at times, violence–to enforce an unequal status quo.

      The FBI has said this is the greatest terrorist risk to the US right now. It’s not me calling it terrorism. It’s the experts.

      “Why won’t Trump condemn terrorism?” [THREAD]

      • harpie says:


        The Klan- – REFRAIN
        Kyle Rittenhouse – – REFRAIN
        Randi Credico – – REFRAIN
        Judge Amy Berman Jackson – – REFRAIN
        Judge Emmet Sullivan – – REFRAIN

        • harpie says:


          The Press – – REFRAIN

          Rep. AOC – – REFRAIN
          Rep. Omar – – REFRAIN
          Rep. Waters – – REFRAIN

          Biden – – REFRAIN
          Harris – – REFRAIN


        • harpie says:

          And as Marcy notes, included in the list of TERRORISTS:

          Billy Barr – – REFRAIN

          Bill Barr INTERVENED to minimize the threats posed by Proud Boy violence.

    • harpie says:

      [Via Quinta Jurecic], Dara Lind:

      7:55 AM · Sep 30, 2020

      Thinking about the day in Aug 2015 when Trump was told

      a couple of men had beaten a [TARGET] Latino man with a metal pole, then told the arresting cops they did it bc “Donald Trump was right,”

      and Trump’s response was to call his followers “very passionate people.” [link]

      TERRORIST: Donald Trump – – REFRAIN

      [ADDED: Marcy’s got a post up about this now…I’ll go on over there…]

  27. Andre says:

    Well, simply, Joe Biden had the best one-liner (something the MSM just wont say): “Shut up, Man!” I really don’t want to hear Trump anymore, and that’s my pre-debate sentiment, so Biden is right on in the debate!

    • Rugger9 says:

      As I noted to my beloved, Joe in Congress would have had plenty of experience dealing with grandstanding bloviators in floor debates and in committee, so I wasn’t surprised though Biden did miss mentioning Herman Cain when DJT claimed no negative effects from his rallies.

      It’s why the RWNJ attacks on AOC also fail, does anyone really think she hasn’t ever had to deal with pervs, drunks and idiots? That she does so effectively and still is able to listen to her constituents better than almost everyone else in Congress is welcome (and the sign of a good barkeep).

  28. FL Resister says:

    Trump certainly didn’t do himself any favors with that performance last night. He showed no self-discipline, no respect for others, no substance to his arguments and he would have been disqualified early on in any high school debate and thrown off the team.

  29. Tom says:

    This may sound like a bit of a stretch as an historical analogy, but the increasing attention being given to the Proud Boys and other white supremacist groups and the corresponding influence and power they seem to be acquiring in the Trump party reminds me of the situation in France during the Hundred Years War and the Armagnac/Orleans civil war of the early 15th century. During this period it was the presence of bands of armed men roaming over the countryside, warring with each other and with the civil authorities, that caused tremendous economic dislocation in France and severe erosion of the French kings’ ability to exert any central control over their realm. Monarchs of the late medieval and Renaissance period would have viewed these various militia groups as “over-mighty subjects” and a dangerous threat to the Crown. Trump and the GOP are playing with fire with this “Stand back and stand by” rhetoric as it sure sounds like this is a call to arms for open chaos and mayhem.

  30. Raven Eye says:

    What is Trump REALLY pleased about? That he slammed Chris Wallace.

    Trump’s reptilian instincts were in charge, and I doubt that he even realized what was happening. But he got his revenge for “that” interview. I can’t say that Trump was prepared to do this, but Wallace was certainly NOT prepared.

  31. Jenny says:

    Thanks Rayne.
    Wallace allowed a bully to take over. Bullies are angry and abusive. Attack and fight is what Trump does to make people feel “less than.” This is who he is – insecure, immature and insensitive.

    This is about fear-mongering and in order to retain power, those who wish to increase or maintain fear need constant hero-worship.

    I am ambivalent about more debates; however this one exposed his disrespect for Biden and his sons, the election process plus his support to white supremist.

    The Harris/Pence debate is the one I want to see.

    Michael Beshloss on Twitter: 11:06 PM · Sep 29, 2020
    Democracy was trashed tonight by a President who ran roughshod over the rules, refused to condemn white supremacists and would not tolerate any form of dissent—a harbinger of what a second term might be like.

  32. Vicks says:

    Last night Trump’s performance targeted only the paranoid and easily riled of his voters.
    The fact that he appears to have written off the need to appeal to thoughtful republicans who trust our system enough to mail in a ballot seems to add fuel to the speculation Trump has done the calculations, and believes his only chance to hang on to power is by somehow disputing (all or some) mail in votes.

    • bmaz says:

      At this point, it probably depends on getting the election to the House of Representatives where each state has one vote. Alaska has the same vote as California, i.e. one.

      • BobCon says:

        If it gets that bad, Pelosi has a hardball option to win IF — Big IF — she has the stomach to play that card.

        She and a majority of House Democrats can throw the delegation count to the Democrats by claiming voting irregularities justify sending Republican representative elections to a committee for investigation until well after Inauguration Day.


        If the GOP invents vote fraud in Pennsylvania, for example, Pelosi can say supression on South Dakota Indian reservations justifies holding off seating a rep from that state until an investigation is carried out. If Trump invents fraud in NC, Pelosi can say that very same allegation requires exhaustive investigations before seating enough NC GOP reps to switch that delegation.

        The House Democrats threw out the state certified result in an Indiana race in 1984, and its power has been used a number of times before that.

        If it gets that bad, of course, we are probably at the stage where multiple court orders are being ignored and chaos rules. So who really knows.

    • gmoke says:

      Samuel L Jackson is also a stutterer and uses “m*therfcker” as a device to help him control it, or so I understand from a recent interview with him. It would be good to see two stutterers reduce Trmp, the “man with superior genes,” to impotent silence.

  33. skua says:

    Biden has probably lost some votes from the Clown Defense League. About 15 in total.
    Otherwise he kept his clothes on and stayed very electable.

    Trump did nothing that would surprise anyone who recognises him as a NY con-artist slob.
    He played his pro wrestling game without heed to the damage he does to the nation by threatening to choke it out. That game seems likely to remain OK with over 40% of adult* Americans for the time being from what I’m seeing on fivethirtyeight.

    * Adult here refers to the chronologically based category and carries no implication of maturity or responsibility.

    • Rugger9 says:

      I think the debate also highlighted just how little DJT has learned about being President in four years on the job. That alone would be enough to disqualify him this time around, but the 40 percent or so back him for their own selfish reasons (see Jerry Falwell Jr, Proud Boys, CBP thugs, FedSoc, etc.) and so he has a base.

      • cavenewt says:

        Trump had no interest in learning to be President. At first he was totally at sea. And then he figured out that he could twist the Presidency into a reality show, an environment in which he feels very comfortable.

        • P J Evans says:

          Not so much a reality show, as an excellent opportunity to get as much money as possible before being caught.

      • skua says:

        Yes, it is clear that Trump has not grown, and will not grow, into the role of POTUS.

        The risk lies in the opposite direction – that he will become more effective at abusing the role and despoiling the nation.

  34. harpie says:

    Meanwhile, in Japan [via Helen Kennedy]:

    11:49 PM · Sep 29, 2020

    People in Japan who watched it on NHK (our public broadcaster) had to watch three men shout over each other while three interpreters interpreted over each other simultaneously soooo yes but not really?

    Some people asked how “shitshow” was translated into Japanese. Asahi Shimbun, one of our major national newspapers, translated as くそみたいなショー (Kuso mitai na shō): “a show that is like shit”. [VIDEO]

  35. Raven Eye says:

    From Politico”

    “The Commission on Presidential Debates announced on Wednesday that the prior night’s face-off between President Donald Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden showed the need for ‘additional structure’ to the format ‘to ensure a more orderly discussion’.”

    — To that: No ship, Sherlock!

    ‘It added that it would announce the new measures shortly, while also commending Chris Wallace of Fox News for his ‘professionalism”\’ moderating the Tuesday night debate.”

    — To that: Rubbish!

      • cavenewt says:

        During the debate I was texting with my sister. I made a bet that Chris Wallace would stand up and yell at Trump to shut the fuck up. I lost that bet, but not by much.

        The commission on presidential debates should give it up as a bad job. No matter what the rules are, Donald Trump will not abide by them even if he agrees to ahead of time. I’ve mentioned it more than once in these comments already, but a cattle prod is about the only thing that’ll work.

        • P J Evans says:

          I’ve seen suggestions that they use dunk tanks. Or that the party that refuses to stop talking/talks over others loses their 2-minute uninterrupted time. (I hope that’s “as often as required’.)

        • Kat says:

          Only problem is that he would just keep talking no matter what. Really, the mic mute button is required.

          If Trump breaks the agreement by yammering on and on with his piffle, then the Debate Commission is under no obligation to adhere to any agreement, either, and so could deploy the mute, methinks.

          If the camera still showed him mouthing in split screen, it could be devastating…

  36. John Lehman says:

    “Better to be a dog in times of tranquility than a human in times of chaos.”

    -More accurate as Chinese than the so called Chinese curse…”May you live in interesting times”

    • skua says:

      Some say that it wasn’t until they saw their bombed-out cities that most of the Third Reich believers realised that they had been wrong.

      I pray that Trump’s base don’t require personal pain of the same magnitude before they leave their vision of MAGA behind.

  37. harpie says:

    Not about the debate, but…
    remember when we were discussing Robert Hyde STALKING Amb. Marie Yovanovitch in Ukraine after Trump said she “was going to go through some things.”?

    Well, the following headline from today reminded me of that:

    Ukraine Is Investigating The Suspicious Death Of A US Embassy Employee In Kyiv
    A police spokesperson told BuzzFeed News that an American woman who worked at the US Embassy was found unconscious with a large head wound. He said she later died in the hospital.
    September 30, 2020, at 1:25 p.m. [She has not yet been identified]

    January: https://twitter.com/PiperK/status/1217227132016963589
    3:28 PM – 14 Jan 2020

    Now they’re stalking the “bitch.” WTF? [screenshots]

    • harpie says:

      This is Millers’ pinned tweet [from July 24]
      Ukrainian Operatives Are Gearing Up Again To Take On The Bidens.
      They Say They Have Giuliani And Republicans On Their Side.
      The Ukrainians have ties to Russia and their own checkered pasts. But some Republicans are taking them seriously, and two of the operatives plan to be in Washington soon to push their agenda. [end quote]

      … wonder if I should have introduced this series of comments as
      not necessarily debate related“…

      • harpie says:

        I didn’t see that. Interesting:

        RH: 3/29/19 Hey brother do we stand down??? Or you still need intel be safe
        [11 seconds]
        RH: 3/29/19 She had visitors
        [14 seconds]
        RH: It’s confirmed we have a person inside

        Also…“We” have a person inside.

      • soothsayer says:

        Thanks for reporting this sad news Harpie. I also saw that update just now.

        “The U.S. embassy in Kyiv is working with the Ukrainian authorities to establish what caused the death of an American embassy employee, it said in a statement on Wednesday.”

        I would hope, that any FBI assigned to the embassy, would be involved in this investigation. Considering it is an American killed on foreign soil, they likely and hopefully will immediately get heavily involved. Godspeed to her whoever she is.

  38. quebecois says:

    I skipped the debate, stopped drinking since the surgery. This had an abusive drinking game vibe from the start.

    Watched about ten minutes of the lowlights.

    Reminded me that time someone had the bad idea to use a car battery with nipple clamps.

    Trump was paying back Wallace for that late July interview, full on retaliation with excessive doubling down.

    That Proud Boys moment, tiki torch worthy.

      • quebecois says:


        Had a difficult month, coming out of it nicely, though.

        Up here, we are hitting a second wave in Montréal and the regions who had been mostly spared are now seeing their numbers climb because young adults are young adults…

        Politically, Legault has a populist base, not a penny is spent on saving cultural events, artists or techs.
        That base loved the tiki torch tribute. We’re as fucked up here as you are down there.

        • Molly Pitcher says:

          Ohhhh, don’t say that Quebecois. I am counting on using my father’s service in the Black Watch from the Bleury Street Armory in Montreal during WWll to justify emigrating to Canada when this thing finally goes down the drain !!

  39. blueedredcounty says:

    I’m thinking they need to have the microphones for the podiums wired with two handles they have to grip to turn on the microphone.
    Then, you put a second circuit into the grip that bridges them.

    If they abuse any debate rule, the moderator has a switch they get to trigger for the offender’s grips, delivering a nasty shock until they let go and shut off their own microphone. Should be accompanied by a light/sign on the front of their podium that says “Holding accountable for violating agreed-upon debate rules – this person is a liar.”

    • Eureka says:

      [**nausea; memories of so many Jenny Cohn threads**] Thank you, harpie.

      They disabled the stolen ES&S (gulp) laptop; reassurance about the memory sticks identified a separate issue: Each memory stick goes with a specific machine; they also cited seals on each machine as a tampering detection method. However, the bleeping log for the machine seal numbering was ‘off’. Optimistically, this is a scare that will cause them to get their shit in order.

      What’s worse is we have a POTUS who, with his general anti-election spew, has driven up the price of these memory sticks on the black market (if one of the pertinent mobs wasn’t the thief in the first place). I hope they are as worthless (for election tampering) as they are making them out to be, but All The Deza if someone produces them, fists in the air, on election night*.

      Memory sticks used to program Philly’s voting machines were stolen from elections warehouse

      …some of them [memory sticks] are [also] used to record the electronic votes used for unofficial results on election night, but it was unclear whether those stolen served that function.

      Hopefully they really can’t marry the sticks to, say, machines acquired elsewhere.

      ^ the primary risk is disinfo: elections officials will go by paper records if any issues

      • Eureka says:

        …which will of course take time…and Trump is a clock runner non pareille

        Goodness I hope none of this matters. But he’s shown us who he is, and I believed him the first time.

  40. Eureka says:

    Another case out of Philadelphia with national implications:

    Anti-Krasner texts aimed to deliver Black Philly voters for Trump, lawsuit reveals

    This is an important case as to unconsented ratfuckery methods (they targeted Black people in Sept 2019 with texts for ~ A/B testing* and info cull, to ‘acquire’ Black voters for Trump); right-wingnut sausage-making (they were _really_ trying to acquire money for their outfit, off the backs of spammed Black people); and Trump’s long-term strategy of pitting Blacks against (Latinx) immigrants under the rubric of “criminal justice reform” (cf. WaPo above on latest ICE-enforcement-as-electioneering; also compare what the fucking IRA does; UK’s Channel 4 reporting on 2016 Trump campaign; e-t-c.).

    It’s also important because it will intersect with Facebook v Duguid, set for argument at SCOTUS December 8th. [That case is basically about whether bans on auto-dialers in the 1991 Telephone Consumer Protection Act (and amended) is constitutional, and what kinds of auto-dialers count as banned.]

    With this SCOTUS, get ready for a shady stranger’s (geofenced) (robo)-texts to come to a phone near you. Roger, is that you?

    I can imagine (if it goes as I suspect at SCOTUS, with downstream implications) that such ratfuckery methods would be expanded to include, say, massive (geofenced, local) disinfo op texts about elections, and on election day and such, etc. [Not that there’s anything but interpretation of the law barring them from doing things like that now. ~Lol.~]

    (*kind of like how they do with FB ads, but ‘in the wild’, out IRL, targeting phones with texts; also this likening has nothing to do with the separate intersection with FB via the FB v Duguid case — on the surface, anyway.)

  41. Eureka says:

    Also, Mac Davis and Helen Reddy died yesterday, and that is a bummer.

    Fixtures dying = We are old


  42. Chris.EL says:

    Jenny, thank you for this info on Wayne Barrett of the Village Voice! Not acquainted with his work, but it sounds accomplished! Like to read this book!

    Book is titled “Without Compromise” and consists of Barrett’s reprinted columns edited by his wife.

    Barrett passed away the day before Trump was inaugurated.

    Note the book’s cover mentions Giuliani too!!

    Rest in peace true voice.

    • soothsayer says:

      Wayne, was a champion of inconvenient Truths. He was a formidable journalist, who took on many bad actors to put it bluntly. I agree, he was a true voice, and he reported many facts about many bad actors, and sadly it seems towards the end, his voice and also the impact of the Village Voice had been lost in the sea of click bait. I was blessed to meet and get to know a man who knew him well, John Klotz. He was a lawyer who championed many of the same causes, and took on and stopped many bad men. John, is the only lawyer I am aware of, who took on Trumps bag man, Roy Cohn, and won. I recall EoH responding to a post of mine about Roy, and I did not get a chance to follow up and say that yes I am aware of Roy’s history of abuses of power and connections. Because John knew quite a bit about this character, and told me much about him as well as…*cough cough*. Godspeed to both of these angels who were amongst us, and thank you Jenny for reminding us of Wayne and his work, which is still online for those who want to find and get acquianted with it.

  43. skua says:

    Hope Hicks is reported as being COVID19 positive and consequently Donald and Melania have gone into quarrantine.

    If Don should die before the election, fivethirtyeight says on the loss of a nominee, “If something happened after the conventions but before the election, the national party committees would pick another nominee.”

    • harpie says:

      10:02 PM · Oct 1, 2020

      On Hannity, Trump says Hope Hicks can’t resist embracing law enforcement and members of the military when talking about her positive Covid results. Is he saying Hicks got coronavirus from a cop or soldier? [AUDIO]

      Transcript [Ladies and Gentleman, The President of the United States!]:

      TRUMP: …think back, you know it’s it’s a tough kind of situation. It’s a terrible thing. So, um, I just went for a test and we’ll see what happens. I mean, who knows? But you know Hope very well. She’s fantastic, and she’s done a great job. But, it’s very, very hard when you are with people from the military or from law enforcement, and they come over to you and they, they wanna hug you and they wanna kiss you because we really have done a good job for ‘em. And, you get close and things happen. I was surprised to hear with Hope, but she’s a very warm person with them. And she, she knows there’s a risk, but…

      This is REALLY skeevy.

      • skua says:

        DJT: ” … when you are with people from the military or from law enforcement, and they come over to you and they, they wanna hug you and they wanna kiss you …”

        Donald’s “adoration by armed services” fantasy being used in an attempt to minimize the serious implications of his close advisor’s COVID infection.

    • harpie says:

      This was posted at the time of the Hannity interview, and a half hour before his tweet:

      10:01 PM · Oct 1, 2020

      Trump confirms Hope Hicks tested positive for coronavirus. He says he and FLOTUS have been tested, but “whether we quarantine or whether we have it, I don’t know.” [WSJ]

      10:12 PM · Oct 1, 2020

      Within minutes of Trump saying this [referring to WSJ quote], the White House released his public schedule for tomorrow. Trump is not quarantining: He’s attending a fundraiser at his Washington DC hotel, and hosting a rally in Florida.

      I find myself wondering how much of this is actually real.

      • Eureka says:

        I heard a snippet on Brian Williams 11th Hour that Hicks was nowhere to be seen on Thursday, yet Trump went to Bedminster for a fundraiser (the point being that if he was _really_ quarantining/protecting others from possible exposure, then why did this NJ event go on).

    • harpie says:

      11:53 PM · Oct 1, 2020

      “A Cleveland Clinic doctor in a white lab coat started to approach the Trump children to ask them to put on masks, but she wasn’t able to get close enough. Someone in the crowd shook their head at the doctor as if to say move along.” [Mercury News]

      8:58 PM · Oct 1, 2020

      Refused an offer of masks from a doctor. The Cleveland Clinic has a mandatory mask policy, they should have thrown them out then and there. How many people did this behavior put at risk and the Clinic should be ashamed of themselves.

    • harpie says:

      Biden camp:

      11:05 PM · Oct 1, 2020

      Biden campaign has asked their scheduled radio pooler not to travel with the Democratic candidate tomorrow. The radio pooler was on the Minnesota AF1 flights on Weds. White House Medical Unit thinks the Trump pool was at low risk of exposure Weds, but team Biden being cautious.

      From the debate:

      Trump: When needed, I wear masks.

      Biden: Masks make a big difference. His own head of the CDC said if we just wore masks … everybody wore masks and social distanced between now and January, we probably save up to 100,000 lives. It matters. It matters.

      Trump: And they’ve also said the opposite. They’ve also said the opposite.

      Biden: No serious person said the opposite.

      • Eureka says:

        Fair point. Very fair point.

        I am worried about any exposure of the Bidens if this is true, I’d lay odds on yelly Trump being a superspreader (and if news is true, Hicks may indeed be one — to be less facetious about it.).

      • Eureka says:

        In a weird coincidence, before bed yesterday — while thinking about what a *tough eviction* this election process will be, I was recalling Marcy’s initial Off Ramp post:


        A few of us speculated that narcissist Trump would only leave over a personal illness excuse (I personally argued for a *sick family member* excuse so he could play a hero role).

        And also that Oct. 2018 Comedy Central show ~ The End of Trump mentioned above (TL;DR: he was hoist by his own petard, in a crazy way…)

    • skua says:

      Possibly best for the nation if Trump “is continuing to perfom his essential work and has slightly reduced his workload and will be back, and in peak form making America great , by next week” for the 3 weeks running up to election day.

      • Eureka says:

        This reinforces that the news is real: before it was announced (12:54am POTUS tweet), we had a show of force on our coasts:

        Carl T. Bergstrom: “Possibly relevant to the timing of when POTUS tested positive: [QT below; see also rest of thread]”

        Tim Hogan: “RT There’s an E-6B Mercury off the east coast near DC. I looked because I would expect them to pop up if he tests positive. It’s a message to the small group of adversaries with SLBMs and ICBMs. [image; thread]”
        12:19 AM · Oct 2, 2020

        Tim Hogan: “Here’s another E6-B that just popped up visible on MLAT on the west coast. IMO Stratcom wants them to be seen. [image]”

        Tim Hogan [in reply to question why this matters]: “@barney1776 @HardTruthonLife It’s the plane that has the ability to order the killing of everyone on earth if someone attacks the US with nukes in a first strike. It can talk to our missile subs under water even if DC is gone.”

  44. Eureka says:

    Speaking of conversations we need to have, I’d also been meaning to bring up Trump-GOP’s further erosion of personhood, aided by the media constantly airing his “only sick / broken / old people get sick” mantra.

    Here, specifically, I _don’t_ mean the problem of mere disinformation (i.e., contra Trump, anyone can have their lives changed forever by COVID, regardless of age/conditions and all that). I mean the constant repetition that people don’t matter, older people are worth less, it’s a personal fault if you get sick(er) from COVID because of some pre-existing condition (and I’ve got news for you, *everybody* is a pre-existing condition, it’s just sometimes the case that the bases — and favored interactions — are not explicitly known).

    The programmatic repetition of the casual devaluing of life, of humanity — heedlessly aided by MSM clips of this speech — has been driving me nuts.

  45. tinao says:

    What I really want to see after the debate is someone asking the surviving koch brother what he thought of trump’s performance. He wins the most by all this shit keeping us on the fossil fuel elevator to hell.

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