More FISA Debate
Kyl up, talking about "liability protection" for the telecoms.
No, Kyl, it’s immunity.
"in good faith"
"historic tradition in such circumstances"
[no, historically, we expected telecoms to understand the difference between an AG and a White House Counsel]
"liability protection liability protection liability protection"
[I wonder what the focus groups were saying that they dreamt up this orwellian language?]
Shorter Kyl: It’s not really allowed to have the AG or the DNI on the floor of the Senate, so I’m just going to read this letter to you.
The President says you have to give liability to the telecoms or else.
"bipartisan bipartisan 13-2 liability protection liability protection 13-2"
Much that we cannot discuss, because if we did, then the whole point of liability protection immunity would be partly ruined.
I hope my colleagues recognize the seriousness of this crap clothed in Orwellian language.
Kyl is my senator, sigh…
Let us know what the rest of us can do to help you rid us of him in a few years ; )
condolences. But I’ve now got Snarlin’. He huffs and puffs and then gets blown over by his own wind.
Once again, Kyl makin’ the “we don’t need no stinkin’ Congress” argument, since clearly the only opinions that matter emanate from the executive branch. I would be perfectly happy if Kyl stopped collecting his pay check and went home.
Why did I start a new thread? these guys are all going home for beer thirty and returns.
Charlie Brown. Lucy. Football.
I just wanted to keep Kyl out of my nice White House pre-emptive signing statement thread. I think I’ll bump that one to the top now. Because I can.
Once again proving that the Constitution is secondary to electoral considerations. Grrrr….
What — no musical interlude? I love the musical interludes. They’re the best part.
these guys are all going home for beer thirty and returns.
Pretty much. I’m going to start a recorder and go move today’s snowfall.
The only thing I’m listening for is filing of a cloture motion to limit debate on final passage of S.2248, as amended (or whatever the equivalent cloture motion might be, e.g., on adoption of S.Amdt.3911, as amended). All the reset is repetitive of old arguments.
Done. THough I think you have to go back to the main page to find it.
Now that I’ve got these posts straightened out, am I correct in understanding that there will be no FISA votes today? And that the voting will take place tommorrow?
Correct me if I’m mistaken…puleeeeeze!
You are correct. Dodd saved his time for everyone else who wants to lobby against immunity. We may have fireworks tomorrow.
What time is the party?….
Is it time to throw copies of the Constitution into the communal flames?…
C-SPAN 2 needs a new DJ, bad.
Sherrod Brown a Columbo-the-detective doppelganger if ever there was one.
am I correct in understanding that there will be no FISA votes today?
That’s correct. No votes today.
cboldt, if you are still around… i’m confused on how the language of the UC can be changed after it was adopted…. at least that is what it sounds like happened. is that correct?
i’m confused on how the language of the UC can be changed after it was adopted…. at least that is what it sounds like happened. is that correct?
The two Legislative calenders that I compared, Feb 4 and Feb 5, indeed show a change to UC #566.
the February 4 Senate legislative calendar
Whatever transpired to “erase” the language that adoption of the motion to proceed to HR 5140 would not interrupt pending business didn’t happen on the floor of the Senate.
FWIW, The Senate just adopted the motion to proceed to HR 5140. Reid entered a fairly complex set of amendments, motions to commit with instructions, etc. that amount to preventing other amendments or motions from interfering with the substitute amendment he filed.
they can do that?
isn’t there a rule somewhere that forces the leadership to at least announce the change on the floor and give all senators the chance to object?
jeeze, it’s more kabuki that even i thought.
jeeze, it’s more kabuki that even i thought.
I’ve seen all manner of oddities since looking closely for about 2 years. One thing for sure, they are unpredictable, and they routinely change path from what they set out.
Harry up, they’re back to EcStim.
cloture motion—Reid—-
EcStim sent to Committee…?
EcStim scheduled to resume at 4:30pm tomorrow.
Oh. He also filed a cloture motion to limit debate on the substitute amendment for Ec. Stim, and contrary to rules that provide a one day layover, the cloture vote will be conducted tomorrow at 4:30, instead of Thursday morning.
Still no cloture motion to limit debate on final passage of FISA.
so, wtf is reid trying to do?
first he has a fucked up UC to move things along (and increase the chances of getting a bill without a cheney poison pill). and not he’s working to prevent things from not moving along?
did reid and pelosi plan this kabuki?
he cloture vote will be conducted tomorrow at 4:30
CORRECTION The cloture vote is at 5:45. The Senate will proceed to debate HR4150 and the Finance Committee substitute at 4:30.
Harry sez: FISA resumes in the morning. Possible roll call vote earlier in the day. “get rid of a lot of this stuff tomorrow.” Adjourned until 9:30am tomorrow.
WRT the absence of a cloture motion on final passage of FISA, I think Reid is setting the stage for faux disappointment, accusations of obstruction, etc. if/when the GOP objects to voting on FISA-related material. He says he hopes that there will be roll call votes on the FISA amendments tomorrow. He has no agreement to vote, just assurance to permit debate. He only expressed HOPE of having votes.
well, that’s ok then – so long as the delay is not going to be used by the house leadership as the rational to defang the progressive caucus (being lead on this issue, i think, by rush holt) and pass the senate version – for a repeat of august.
so long as the delay is not going to be used by the house leadership as the rational to defang the progressive caucus (being lead on this issue, i think, by rush holt) and pass the senate version
That’s where it seems to be headed from the Senate side. The Senate can stick to HR 4150 until it’s disposed of. All that FISA gets tomorrow is debate from 10:30 to 4:30, no votes. There is no limit on time for debate on final passage – the GOP or Dodd could object to voting on final passage – that’s the cloture motion that I have been looking for.
I will be unsurprised if FISA passage is delayed until next week Tuesday.
and that is exactly the worry i had last night.
it would be one thing if reid had been delaying fisa in order to prevent passage of a bad bill – but thursday’s UC showed us that is not the case.
it would also be acceptable if reid were hurrying things along in order to give the house time to fix the bill (especially if he and pelosi had agreed to this plan).
but we’re getting the worst of the “move things along towards passage” and the “let’s delay” actions.
i do not have a good feeling about this. been punked too many times already to trust any of the players.
but we’re getting the worst of the “move things along towards passage” and the “let’s delay” actions.
Coupled with the “it’s beyond my control” act. Situation normal.
What happened when cloture was invoked on the motion to proceed to HR 4150? The GOP insisted on staying with that subject for the 30 hours of post-cloture debate.
What might one expect if cloture is invoked to limit debate on final passage of HR 4150 (technically, to limit debate on the substitute amendment)? The Senate will move back to FISA? No way, Jose. This week is economic stimulus week.
FISA gets 6 hours of debate. 10:30 to 4:30 tommorow, then back to economic stimulus.
I have a question. Does the Government have the capability to record and store all conversations….or almost all? And when they want, they can call up your numbers and listen to you conversations. So when they are out to get someone…for political purposes, they listen to them, or select, conversations to get the dirt on anyone they want. And then they do the same with email. The govt has super computers with the ability to compress and store alot of info. Are they able to do it on a really large scale? And do you think they do?
I doubt it, but just in case, let’s make sure we talk a lot and write really, really long emails. *g*
OT – In re. the cable cuts, I notice Mike McConnell testified Tuesday that “Radical elements are now a threat to the survival of Pakistan“. Recall that Pakistan was one of the countries affected by the cut, and that regional internet backbone providers were tending to allocate the limited available service only to commercial accounts, leaving most individuals without connectivity. That might tend to isolate whatever individuals and small groups that might exist inside Pakistan and are being remotely directed via the net, whether from inside Pakistan or outside it.
Yup, that’s part of what i’ve meant all along–Al Qaeda is living in Pakistan, and somehow, Zawahiri can stil send out videotapes from there. Cut off its cables, and Zawahiri loses that ability.